[Ed Note: Please see the “IMPORTANT UPDATE” to this story at the bottom of this article. – BF]
Yesterday we reported the problems experienced at the Davidson County (Nashville), TN polls by Election Integrity filmmakers David and Patricia Earnhardt. Patricia, like so many others before, in so many elections past, saw her vote flip before her eyes on the ES&S iVotronic touch-screen system from her intended candidate, Barrack Obama, to the Green Party candidate Cynthia McKinney.
Last week, we noted voter reports from two different WV counties, Putnam and Jackson, both counties where the same ES&S iVotronic touch-screen machines (which are notorious for flipping and losing thousands of votes and costing at least one Democratic U.S. House nominee her rightful seat) similarly flipped votes away from Democratic candidates.
Earlier today, John Gideon reported on ES&S iVotronics in SC which fail to include a number of races on the final review screen. In at least one county in that state, during the Republican Primary earlier this year, the machines had failed to even turn on at all, leading voters to scramble to find scraps of paper to vote on. ES&S is the nation’s largest supplier of voting machines.
Now, finally — and thankfully — we have a report of voters experiencing votes flipping from the Republican candidate John McCain, to the Democratic candidate Barack Obama in a second TN county. Does this mean someone can actually take some action to get these machines the hell out of service now?!…
From Tennessee’s Decatur County Chronicle today…
At least three voters encountered the problem when casting their early ballot on Saturday morning. Franklin Boroughs says he intended to vote for Republican but rather the computer had checked the Democratic candidate instead.
Like Davidson County, TN and Putnam and Jackson Counties, WV, Decatur uses the same ES&S iVotronic machines infamous for vote-flipping and failure.
The machines should never be used in any American election. But since the Democrats apparently won’t call for these machines to be removed and impounded immediately, despite so many similar reports this year and in previous elections, perhaps the Republicans can now demand the machines be impounded and removed from service immediately, and each voter be given a paper ballot instead.
During the 2006 election, when report after report of vote-flipping touch-screens piled up in state after state, the only call for removal/impounding of the flipping machines came from then-Senator Rick Santorum (R-PA) and the GOP after reports of votes-flipping away from the Republican. They wrote a letter on Election Day, as the reports were coming in, calling for the impounding of the touch-screen machines being used in 27 Pennsylvania counties.
From the GOP’s November 7, 2006 request to the Secretary of the Commonwealth in PA:
The Republicans were exactly correct to make that request at the time, and both Dems and Repubs would be absolutely responsible in making the same demand now.
If the Democrats, who have the most to lose here, won’t do the right thing, and get these machines the hell out of service — immediately — in every state where they are still used, then maybe the Republicans will step up and do so and demand that every voter be given the opportunity to vote on a verifiable paper ballot, instead of a wholly unverifiable, easily hacked, and notoriously faulty touch-screen voting machine.
Unlike the Democrats, for some reason, Republicans don’t seem to be afraid of being called “sore losers” or “conspiracy theorists” (most likely because the Rightwing media are the ones who spout such nonsense, and there are few in the media willing to throw such absurd insults at Republicans if/when they actually do the right thing.)
We would gladly support the efforts of either party here who does the right thing for the voters and gets these machines the hell out of service. Now!
UPDATE 10/23/08, 1:28pm PT: More vote-flipping in yet another WV county reported today, as one voter reports his voting having flipped 5 times from Democrats to Republican. Details here…
*** IMPORTANT UPDATE 10/24/08: ***
Bernie Ellis, a local election integrity advocate, and Nashville hero/legend of Gathering to Save Our Democracy, has done some more digging into this story, after his eyebrows were raised by one of the rare instances of a touch-screen/DRE vote reportedly flipping from Republican to Democrat. He posted the results of his sleuthing at DU, but they are notable enough to post below almost in full.
I’m grateful to Bernie for his great work in getting to the bottom of this apparent Republican-sponsored hoax, even as it doesn’t change the thrust of the article above, and the machines need to be removed and impounded immediately, as they continue to flip in other states (latest incidents reportedly took place in TX, with straight-ticket Democratic votes flipping to Republican. Details here…)
Now here’s Bernie…
…
I would strongly recommend that DUers also read the original story published in the Decatur County Chronicle (weekly, circulation 2,700, motto: “Blessed in the nation whose God is the Lord” (Psalm 33:12)) this past Tuesday. Here’s the link:
http://www.decaturcountyonline.com/article.asp?art=1244
Here’s what I learned in speaking with the local reporter and the Decatur County Election Registrar who was interviewed for the story:
- The newspaper learned about the story “… when the voters called the paper to report the vote flips from McCain to Obama”. Or maybe it was a call from the two county election commissioners quoted in the story — both Republican party members of the five person local commission — one of whose father-in-law happens to be the newspaper publisher.
- The three voters who reported the vote-flips (but only to the newspaper — they have still not contacted anyone at the Election Commission) were the mother, father-in-law and either cousin or uncle of the Decatur County Republican Party Chairman
- All of them are in business with each other at the local sawmill.
- None of the aggrieved voters have listed phone numbers.
- When the Decatur County Election Registrar offered to call a county election commission meeting to discuss the vote-flipping incident, the Republican commissioners declined.
- Neither of the Republican commission members have been back to the county election commission office to file any formal complaint about the equipment or to ask that it be de-commissioned.
So folks — I report, you decide. As for me, my initial skepticism has (sadly) been confirmed. What looked like a rare glimpse at bi-partisan harm caused by DREs has sadly been — once again — another debunked exception that reinforces the rule.
When I finished my conversation with the county Election Registrar (who was completely open and helpful throughout our conversation) by saying “You know, when I heard this story, I smelled a fish. And it weren’t fresh-caught”, she said “Exactly.”
Folks, we’ve just witnessed a little bamboozlry on the banks of the Tennessee River, in a sleepy little backwoods county whose Republicans are as slimy as they are stupid. Their little attempt at small town psy-ops has plopped pathetically — like poop from a dying pachyderm.
Like the ACORN brou-ha-ha-ha-ha, this story has no merit.
DREs may be nefarious BUT they are faithful.
This is actually a VERY bad sign.
What you wanna bet that NOW the mainstream media goes whole hog spewing “election fraud” and blaming it on the democrats?
With just one instance of vote flipping from Rethug to Dem, even though we have been screaming this from the roof tops for years when it was 99.9% all Dem flipped to rethug.
The democrats wont do a damn thing.
They disgust me.
Brad is the best. It looks really bad though. As Gore Vidal put it there does not seem to be anyone to turn to, no one seems to care.
Especially since the ACORN hoax was a dud.
The rethuglicans are going to do what they do best.
Blame the democrats for exactly what THEY are doing.
You see it in every rethug political ad.
Sadly the democrats will just sit there with their thumb up their butt until they actually appear guilty and then the game is over.
To paraphrase the great Kenneth Blackwell:
Americans could never count paper ballots by hand. It’s not possible. It would take us decades to put a procedure like that into practice. (sarcasm mine)
Everyone should take a few minutes to watch this film clip:
My America Project .org
What a refreshing change!
I was so bored with votes always flipping to the repulsican side.
Joan – is that you the Original Bradblog Joan?
I think it’s all a preprogrammed ruse to give media types the chance to later say the flipping was to both parties, when in reality, 95%, as in 2004, will be from Dem to GOP.
i would encourage people to record their vote casting using their cell phone cameras (preferably video). that way if an “error” occurs it can be documented for the poll workers and uploaded to the internet as proof.
if the machine seems to work, then you can just delete the video/photos.
tell your friends.
Brad,
We will follow up on this tomorrow here in Tennessee. If the voters spoke up at the polling place, there should be a record of it there. If there isn’t, we’ll contact the paper which published the story.
Given the ACORN nonsense and Bob Koehler’s recent column citing the “moral equivalence” mind-set of the Rethugs these days (i.e., our ACORN = their multi-state voter suppression and continued influence over the computerized “mechanics” of voting), I would take any statement by Rethugs that they saw their votes flip in Tennessee with a HUGH grain of salt.
Why oh why could they not have seen (and said) that last year or the year before or four years before that, when their “experiences” (sic until proven otherwise) could have helped us here with our legislature to mandate paper ballots by THIS election? But NO, it has to happen now when their “glitches” cannot measurably impact the conduct of this election.
I smell a fish. And it ain’t been fresh-caught.
bbv recently did an article on “middlemen” in the elections…whr several counties send results to a partisian web site before they go to the sos
these “flips” from repub to dem make me think that “they” can now move votes state to state
so tell the guy in tenn,no worries,ur vote went to wv whr its needed
mccain consentrating his time and money in nh and penn tells me thats whr the big “flip” will occur
nh had better be ready,we know what and whr to look
penn on the other hand has no paper except for mailed ab ballots so it will be a challenge to prove BUT there is ALWAYS a mathmatical tag,hopefully we can find it fast enough to avoid martial law(right wing bloggers r threatening martial law after mccain “wins”)
the trouble is most peops dont seem to understand the tags…but here is an example anyways, in the recount of nh, amherst had 3213 ballots cast by reps(according to bbv foias)but according to the sos recount results 3246 votes were cast…dats right 33 more votes than voters
Prepare to be even more pissed off.
The ultimate nightmare.
Internet Voting!
Who could be against the troops voting? Right? Right?!
Well, Someone else can take on Popular Mechanics this time. I hate them at this point. Especially their asshole chicken shit Internet Election Guru Garrett M. Graff
Also a big filthy middle finger bird to “Geek The Vote!”
re: Comment No. 9: WE CAN’T PROVE VOTE FLIPPING UNTIL WE HAVE VISUAL EVIDENCE. WE NEED TO SHOUT ALOUD TO EVERYONE DOING EARLY VOTING TO TAKE YOUR CELL PHONE/CAMERA TO THE POLLING SITE AND VIDEOTAPE YOUR VOTE. UNTIL WE CAN SHOW MULTIPLE INSTANCES OF VIDEO EVIDENCE OF VOTE FLIPPING, WE ARE GOING TO BE CALLED “TIN FOIL CONSPIRACY NUTS”. IF WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE, WE CAN’T PROVE FRAUD.
And no, I will not appologise for being rude (ALL CAPS)!
What Cynthia and Bernie said.
It will be interesting to see if this story is corroborated, and if so, who jumps on it or refrains from jumping on it.
Re: Comment No. 9
DO NOT REPEAT DO NOT LET THE POLL WORKERS KNOW YOU ARE TAPING YOUR VOTE. IF YOU TAPE VOTE FLIPPING, DROP YOUR CELL/CAMERA IN YOUR POCKET AND SAY NOTHING UNTIL YOU HAVE EXITED THE PREMISES WITH THE EVIDENCE INTACT! WE NEED THE EVIDENCE POSTED ON THE INTERNET.
If you tell the poll worker you have videotaped the vote flip, they will confiscate the evidence.
That would be off-the-charts, if the corporate mainstream media covered this, to the extent of “Joe the Plumber.” Then, you need to do a story contrasting the YEARS of votes flipping the other way and virtually no coverage, vs. votes flipping the other way.
The CMSM may not cover it, though, because they’d have to revisit the 2 Bush stolen elections, then…right?
Yes, this is half right – get rid of the machines- the other thing is hand counting votes with oversight by members of both/all parties. Oversight could be selected like they do for jurors. Everyone needs to contact their congressmen!
The election is already lost. McCain will win. Repubs will say that americans voted with their hearts to explain the descrepancy.
Me? I keep looking at those rifles in my closet and wondering if I’m going to need them…..yep, even liberals own guns.
Do you think riots/anarchy will prevail after McCain is declared the winner? I wonder if the military will really fire on it’s own citizens?
I’m 52, liberal, but probably more a moderate than anything else – s student of history – and I think that the ballot box no longer ensures a change – a time is coming where perhaps people are going to have to choose sides and make a stand.
Heck, maybe we’ll be lucky, and the military will step in, take over the government, arrest the current administration (and their backers – all of them), set up a truth commission where the “evil doers” can admit to their crimes, run the country for one year, clear out all the corrupt politicians, hold new elections, allow only 90 days for campaigning, and we start clean?
Civil war, anyone?
Yes, Agreed.
Now that both parties are pissed off, can we stop the Merry Go Round?
Comments #6 and #19, I agree, it seems to plain old incompetence. Shut these evil things down and let us move on to paper ballots. I am now a permanent absentee voter because of the whole touch screen fiasco.
I have more confidence in my fellow citizens than some who commented here today, because I see a huge swell against McCain, Palin, and Rove. They have screwed themselves up royally, and continue to do so. If it even looks like McCain wins, there will be so many lawsuits, investigations, and marches in the streets… and I think the Republicans are afraid that it will be the end of them. If they lose this election, they can come back in four years. That is why we should not let out a sigh of relief when Obama wins, this is a battle not the war.
[Ed Note: Comment deleted. –99]
Yes this is DOUBLE POSTED. It SHOULD BE FUCKING PINNED.
So nice to see the votes flipping from repub. to dem. That is the only way to get paper ballots ….perhaps in 2012. Little too soon now. They know they can’t win a fair election after W. We are no longer a nation of laws.
Brad, I noticed that you claim to “investigate”. Investigate this: You obviously have an agenda to make it seem that all voter fraud is a hoax. I know you’d love to think that is true. Having lived in Ohio for some time…I have firsthand experience. One of my experiences occured while working as a Nurses Aide in an Assisted Living Home. I worked in the Special Care. This is where the elderly with Alzheimer’s lived. They basically didn’t know their name or where they were…most thought they were still back in the 1950’s. That’s how that disease works…you remember the long past and not the short.
An Assist. to the Activities Director came in one fine day and asked for my help in having these residents “sign” some papers. We were on camera so that those in the nurses station could keep an eye on things in the Special Care unit. I looked and saw that it was an application for an absentee ballot. I found that The “pure” Dems were signing up and exploiting Alzheimer’s patients to vote for them. I walked away from this lady and wouldn’t help her. I didn’t want to lose my job though, and so, I did not confront the director. Until I quit a month later. All kinds of awful things went on in that place and there was a whole exodus of employees.
It seems to be one of the only way some think they can make it…by deception. So…investigate that…will ya? I can’t get anyone to check the rolls and see if these names appear. If they do, and I know they do…it’s one more in a long line of voter fraud. Put this in your agenda and smoke it. Because you have to be no something which would cause you to be so blind.
Tracy, #23,
We took my Alzheimered mother-in-law to vote in ’04. She could barely sign her name, and she surely didn’t understand, but we know her, and know that to her very core she would hate Dubya and vote against him. And we helped her do it.
Sadly, she is now too far gone to sign anything or even do anything but sit in a wheelchair and stare into space. I’d love to take her to vote for Obama…
On another level. Those who say the Dems have their heads in the sand… Looks that way to me. After reading Greg Palast in ’03 and ’04, I asked the Kerry campaign what they were doing about it. “20,000 lawyers” would be on call that election day. I asked how many hackers they had, and they just looked at me like I was crazy…
I just wonder – Dems are in general smarter than Pubs. Maybe (Howard Dean has WATCHED a vote flip!) Dems will sit on their powder, lulling the Pubs into thinking they’re not in the game, and, when it becomes evident that the fix is in for McCain, spring Dem hackers into action to save the day. What evidence do I have? Very little, except that even a lot of corporate America has had it with Pubs. They’re tired of the incompatence, too. And moderate Pubs are for Obama. Of course, it’s the crazies that are doing vote fraud. They think they’re doing the work of the Lord, I suppose.
I’m dreaming, really. The only thing I know is that Obama was hanging around with the Nebraska Senator Chuck Hagel. The same guy that bought a voting machine company and then won a “miracle” election on that company’s machines. Maybe Hagel’s gonna jump in and hack to save America.
Sheezsch! What have we done? After billions spent on a campaign to convince voters – it could come down to our hackers vs. their hackers??? And we certainly don’t have any way to know trust for sure that the will of the people has been heard, which is supposed to be what we’re all about!
And that’s not even considering the down ticket races, which of course can be less-conspicuously rigged…
damn…
shw
Tracy,
No one’s denying that voter fraud takes place. It seems pretty clear though, that our “Justice” Dept. and the FBI are willing to investigate isolated instances like yours of a dozen or so voters, or the required submission of phony registrations by progressive groups like ACORN (along with the millions of legit ones), but ignore voter suppression, purging of the roles, too few machines in Dem precincts, “spoiled” votes and machines flipping votes.
The systemic problems I mention are on a scale that dwarfs your anecdote, and while both may be valid, they are not equivalent. Back to the subject of touch-screens flipping votes. Do you have an opinion on that? Is it OK with you? Do you believe computers can’t be hacked, don’t break down, should be programmed with secret code and be acessed on election day buy private contractors?
Yep, it’s the best Democracy money can buy!
I understand the impulse, but in most states recording the votes on ballot even your own is a felony. Think vote buying. I don’t get my $5 until I bring you proof I voted the “right” way.
Even so, #19 is dead on. We are a visual society. The result may be prison for the voter who videos an unambiguous machine fault, but youTube fame as the video speads.
Not a pleasant outcome.
Woah— is this true? I have not heard this ever:
Nebraska Senator Chuck Hagel bought a voting machine company and then won a “miracle” election on that company’s machines. Maybe Hagel’s gonna jump in and hack to save America.
What is the name of the company and does he still own it?
As a retired Electronics Tech, and after watching a video this morning showing the “switching problem on voting machines, I believe that most of the problems are a calibration issue.
Touch screens have to be calibrated to make sure that the point that you touch on the screen properly aligns with the link on the screen. I’ve had the same problem with video poker machines at casinos. Because they weren’t aligned properly, when you would touch one point on the screen , the adjacent choice would activate due to poor alignment. When I called the service person over, they put the machine out of service until it could be corrected.
I’m not a fan of voting machines because of the chance of manipulating either software or hardware to contaminate the vote. Screen alignment is just one of the problems.
Karen, #27
This from Bev Harris of Black Box Voting in ’03:
http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0301/S00166.htm
[Ed Note: Shannon! Holy crap, Shannon, that was rude. Please, reread the rulz. –99]
I am a Canadian and we have a very simple, tamper-proof election system. Although it may seem backward in this age of electronics, it works as is demonstrated in very tight elections. For federal elections, the only thing on the ballot is the name of the candidates (no other pending legislation). Votes are cast on paper ballots. The counting system is monitored by a representative for each candidate and election officials. Should a recount be required, there is a paper trail. Our election results are usually in by 11PM on the day of the election. Simple, sure, but it works and is fair to all.
voting fraud predicted————-WASHINGTON ““ As Election Day nears, memories of the 2000 contest remind Americans that polling-place foul-ups and close races in key states can send them to bed not knowing who their next president will be.
The odds don’t favor a repeat of that imbroglio, in this election or any other. But several possible nightmare scenarios could deliver bitter controversy and confusion on Nov. 4 rather than a quick and clean election of President Bush’s successor.
Perhaps the most stunning result would be an electoral college tie, which would require members of the next House to select the winner. It’s not likely, but certainly possible.
Shannon #29 Good Lord… now- the Republicans could establish a relationship between Obama and Hagel and turn on Hagel….the ultimate Animal Farm question, should we, could we use the same trick to win an election that the American people should win. The American people would be cheating back their vote or as Palast and Kennedy have already arrived at,www.stealbackyourvote.com we literally could/ would / should steal back the vote…..this could only be justified if the rules and checks and balances were put back and the ‘ring’ [ as in Lord of the Rings] were taken off afterwards while also restoring just economic policies including land ownership opportunities, real media, health, education and constitution restored- and then we’ll still feel dirty, because we had to do it. I feel like a slut for the thought, but would the greater good be served.
Like other commentors, I think that this is the result of programming deliberately done by ES&S, which is a Republican operation. Of course, it was staged in a state that is going to go overwhelmingly Republican, because it is not going to happen enough to make any material difference in the vote. And, it’s a good bet, that the Republican-to-Democratic flipping is only going to happen in states where Republican victories are assured or where the Republicans have no hope anywise(they aren’t going to take any chances in any toss-up states). This is just a little bit of theater that the RNC staging in order to further legitimize their planned campaign to undermine the presidency and Congress after the election.
Look for the mean-spirited, continuing circus whose only purpose was to derail Clinton’s presidency – from it’s first day, to continue during Obama’s 8 years in office.
I expect, that the Republican’s will not move to get ES&S thrown out, because those machines are doing exactly what they want them to do.
The concept of a single ended closed computer voting system is an insult to technology and a Travesty the likes of the nazis completing the a-bomb first.
Wow ~ Brad is on the Thom Hartmann show now!
Show this around…
Ron Howard’s Call For Obama With Andy Griffith And Henry Winkler
PBS has an online poll asking if Sarah Palin is qualified.
Apparently the right wing knew about this in advance and are flooding the voting with YES votes.
The poll will be reported on PBS and picked up by mainstream media. It can influence undecided voters in swing states.
Please vote — it takes 20 seconds.
Click on link and vote yourself.
Here’s the link:
PBS.org poll
Heh! Thanks, Mick. It’s horrifying the Fonz actually voted for bush/cheney in 2000!!! Ah well, now he knows!
Truly Vile RNC Mailer
The Republican party is the sickest most vile and anti-american group of people in the US right now.
The GOP should rot in hell for harming America the way they have. Dividing us with fear, hate and racism.
Sorry for the OT –
Hey Mick, you were part of the Lemme research team … whatever happened to that magazine that posted the pictures and promised a follow-up. Did they ever do that?
The concept of a single ended closed computer voting system is an insult to technology and a Travesty the likes of the nazis completing the a-bomb first.
Bamboo Harvester is correct. This can not be stated enough times.
As a computer engineer, I have not met any engineers that think EVMs are a good idea. The consensus opinion is that they are a stunningly and remarkably bad idea.
What would happen if an ATM “flipped” your deposit into a withdrawl? Or put your deposit into the wrong account? Or into someone elses’s account? These things don’t happen. Why?
If we can have ATMs that recognize you no matter where you are on the planet, and know your balance and can give you money and accurately calculate your remaining balance, then, WTF is up with these voting machines?
We are left as usual with two alternative explainations: incompetence, or basic criminal intent. If incompetence why are these people still working? If criminal intent, why are these people walking around loose?
I don’t get it.
This “votes flipped to Obama” story is not true. I followed up myself today and spoke to three of the principals mentioned in the original article. Here is my write-up on Democratic Underground of what I learned:
http://www.democraticundergroun...mesg_id=509810
Sometimes when things appear to be too good to be true, they are. This story was just another fake story to add to the fake plumber, the fake assault victim with a “B”-decked cheek and a fake Republican Presidential/Vice Presidential ticket.
I do hope, Brad, that you can somehow put this genie back in the bottle.
DREs are nefarious BUT they are also loyal … to their Republican masters.
Thanks. Bernie
Thank you, Bernie! I’ll update the story above! Great work!
Where are the lawyers?
I’ve heard they’re “on the ground.”
Get up off the ground, lawyers!
….any way this blog can be forwarded to Democratic Headquarters/leaders in all of these states? …where are the 5000 lawyers? …. this needs to be done ASAP!
Nothing has changed! This is the same ole shit I have been reading since 2004 – voters hitting the Democrat candidate and the Republican showing up on the screen. I get so frustrated at reading this stuff that I could die! The Dems seem to always be on the defensive when it comes to voting integrity. Somebody please tell me how, when and why the Republicans seem to have control over these private voting machine companies? When will the Democrats finally say ENOUGH and kick the goddamn Proprietary Software theft be taken out of our elections systems? We need to ban every electronic voting machine in America and go back to hand counts. To hell with next day elections results! If it takes a week or month to get it right, then so be it. We will have an accurate count then and can get the will of the people back instead of a dictator.
#24. Shannon. I am sorry that your mother-in-law is disabled. But you admitted to vote fraud and you are a democrat. You voted in the name of another person, supplanting your will for hers. I hope other readers do not take a cue from your post.
It is funny to me that people believe that paper ballots are safer. The results are still compiled, transmitted and tabulated electronically so if there are evil doers, they can accomplish the same goal. touch screens should keep a paper record (mine does and I check as I go to make sure it is on the paper correctly). If they do, then both systems, electronic and paper are equally safe (or unsafe)
Posted in the Greenville Sun on Oct 26
“officials in Decatur County had called in technicians, who “confirmed the issue as legitimate…”
I am sick of reading Bernie Ellis’s ranting about Republican hoaxes. I had always considered myself Democrat before, but now that I have come in contact with a person like Bernie…I am changing to Republican!
Just because you don’t think the story is true does not mean it isn’t. It was confirmed to be true!!!! But you conveniently left that part out of your report. You have no business calling anyone slimy or stupid. Your name-calling just reiterates the type of person that you are, Bernie.
The whole point of the story is not that Republicans or Democrats have been wronged in any way. The point of the story is to be careful when you are voting. Why read so much into it that you feel the need to investigate and then criticize people you don’t even know? Don’t you have anything better to do with your time?
SillyGit ~ I’ve a similar consensus … Thank You !