Even in the best case scenario, that this hugely widespread data mining is declared unconstitutional and it is ordered to stop, AND we are assured it has stopped --- does anyone believe it will actually stop?

"Trouble blew in on a cold dark wind..." --Tom Petty

If you haven't read the sci-fi novel The Traveler by John Twelve Hawks (Earth in the near future in which the authorities know everything about you), I recommend it. It is prophetic.

I personally believe the Snowden revelations to be monumental for a number of reasons. One is that they cut through the Obama obfuscation that has rendered many folks inert. (He's still at it, of course, saying today that there is transparency...We have FISA!) Another reason is that we have been smiling uneasily as hot shots extol the increasing sophistication of sharing and analyzing personal information, and now the general public knows that the uneasiness was based in hard, brutal reality. And it might get through the general complacency that just saying "We respect civil liberties" is not the same as respecting civil liberties or of being required to respect civil liberties.

If his account at The Guardian is accurate, Thomas Drake has revealed that Bush didn’t even wait until passage of the USA/PATRIOT Act, which he signed into law on Oct. 26, 2001, before authorizing blanket NSA surveillance of the American people.

I stress the word, "if", because The New York Times article that Drake linked to states that Bush issued the NSA authorization "months after the Sept. 11 attacks."

The New York Times piece, however, reveals that John Yoo, within days of 9/11, issued a secret memo that suggested the government use "electronic surveillance techniques and equipment that are more powerful and sophisticated than those available to law enforcement agencies in order to intercept telephonic communications and observe the movement of persons but without obtaining warrants for such uses."

Exposing normal spying on other countries, which they all do that have the means, is very damaging to the U.S. position at the current G*.

Snowden is a Traitor. This weasel specifically stated he agonized over every word released, unlike Manning.

President Obama should exercise those extreme powers in the Defense bill that he never wanted buy now has. Bye bye Snowden into 'indefinite detention'.

"If his account at The Guardian is accurate, Thomas Drake has revealed that Bush didn’t even wait until..."

... his ass hit the chair in the oval office: the splitters were being installed in telecom offices prior to 9/11.

Limitless, warrantless surveillance of U.S. citizens was intended from the outset of the coup by the "elites."

Waitaminute, I just read an interview with the President on Charlie Rose. Apparently we have nothing to worry about because abusing the power would be "illegal". Whew, was worried about nothing. Also apparently the program is actually transparent because we have a rubber stamp secret court with secret rulings for secret oversite....

Irwin Mainway said...

"Exposing normal spying on other countries..."

... actually, you seem to have missed the point: the NSA acting as a footstool of the benefit of the elites is inappropriate and is hypocritical as hell. Which, of course, is SOP for the elites.

Let them do their own damn espionage... oh, wait... as the prior releases have shown the elites regard the NSA as their personal property. Along with everyone and everything else.

The G8 turning into a 3 Stooges cream pie fight is tomorrow's story - thanks to Snowden exposing the secret bugging. Guess I jumped the gun.

The NSA does swear up and down that they only access the completely archived internet cache and telephone call cache if you really annoy them, (today's topic).

"Exposing normal spying on other countries, which they all do that have the means, is very damaging to the U.S. position at the current G*."

Snowden "exposed" little, if anything, that was not already known to the public and certainly to foreign governments around the world. Try to keep up.

Irwin Mainway @5 wrote:

This weasel specifically stated he agonized over every word released, unlike Manning.

Do you have a link to back-up your slanderous smear, or are you just making it up as you go along?

While we're on the subject of treason, as I am sure you are aware, every individual who assumes public office, enters the military and even attorneys who practice in the private sector, take a solemn oath to support and defend the U.S. Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

So, how should we categorize those officials who defile the Constitution and the civil liberties that document was intended to protect in order to pass through the public/private sector revolving door in order to acquire a slice of the cyber-security industrial complex pie?

For example, retired Admirable John M. McConnell first joined Booz Allen in 1996 after serving for four years as the head of the NSA. In 2007, McConnell became the Director of National Intelligence (DNI), making him the head of the 16-member intelligence community. In 2009, McConnell returned to Booz Allen, where he now receive more than $1 million/year as its Vice Chairman.

Are they domestic enemies? Should we consider their development of the illicit NSA surveillance that Snowden exposed as treason?

Re Steve Snyder @7.

I find myself in total agreement with your criticism of the President's Orwellian doublespeak on this topic.

So here it is. A topic on which you and I agree. What is the world coming to?

Mr Canning, Have you had an opportunity to read Rob Hager's fine essay, "Snowden’s Constitution, Obama’s Constitution, and Criminal Law"? Perhaps you'll be kind enough to comment upon it once you've read it, http://www.counterpunch....tution-and-criminal-law/

This surveillance mess is just another aspect of privatization of activities which should remain in government hands. And that's not to say that getting it out of the hands of private contractors would solve all problems. But it's a necessary first step. It seems likely that the President and Congress were not even fully informed of contractor activities and that old profit motive has been inserted where it doesn't belong. It's like operating the FBI with rent-a-cops.

Obama is lying when he says you telephone calls are not recorded.

In his zeal to impress how tough the administration is on terrorists
Tim Clemente bragged on CNN in May

We certainly have ways in national security investigations to find out exactly what was said in that conversation. It's not necessarily something that the FBI is going to want to present in court, but it may help lead the investigation and/or lead to questioning of her. We certainly can find that out.

welcome to America. All of that stuff is being captured as we speak whether we know it or like it or not.

As usual Glen Greenwald and the Guardian reported on this at the time to no notice.

The important not here in the interview is that Obama is lying when he says telephone conversations are not be recorded.

thank you for that post john,i had not seen that

Great catch Brad.

We are all in this together.

The coup zapkitty mentions is against all of us.

That is life in a "transparent wartocracy."

John Washburn @ 15:

Obama is lying when he says you telephone calls are not recorded.

Ah, but that's not what he said, is it?:

That's very different, isn't it?

Those words, of course, were carefully chosen.

P.S. Good to hear from you on air today, John.

listen or capturing,same difference ,both violate the 4 th

Boilingfrogs post has an interview up with Russ Tice NSA whistleblower. He says who has been tapped. It is on 6-19-2013. It is for subscribers but will be free in a short time.

The only reason to tap congress people, top military, candidates for congress etc is blackmail. Wondering why your congress will not act on policies that 70 percent of Americans support? I did, but I don't anymore.

Remember folks, NSA is the military. In our country the way it is supposed to work is the military is under civilian control. That means that only congress and the president decide if we go to war under the constitution. So has the military seized control of the civilian government? Is this why we are at war constantly against an idea? despite electing a guy that professed to end all this war? We just started war (or it's equivalent since only congress can declare) with Syria in which we are on the side of Al Quaida for gods sake.

Russell Tice says candidate for congress Barack Obama was wiretapped. If you think this does not affect you you are dreaming.

The Mainstream Media are the lapdogs of the GOP.

That's the only reason Snowden's revelations are being reported.

Obama embroiled in another scandal!

If a repug was in the whitehouse none of them would DARE challenge the administration...

See the Video