Wayne Madsen caught this earlier this morning, from the Chicago Tribune...

Congresswoman’s son-in-law dies snorkeling

CHICAGO - Congresswoman Jan Schakowsky’s son-in-law has died while snorkeling during a family outing in Mexico.

The Illinois Democrat, husband Robert Creamer, their nine children and grandchildren were all in Mexico when Michael McLaughlin died.

Schakowsky says McLaughlin’s death “leaves a big hole” in family members’ lives.

McLaughlin was snorkeling alone Sunday when a bystander on the beach saw that something was wrong. Family members tried unsuccessfully to rescue him.

McLaughlin was a 38-year-old New York filmmaker and editor. His wife, Lauren McLaughlin, is the daughter of Creamer and his former wife, Day Piercy.

——

Information from: Chicago Sun-Times, http://www.suntimes.com/index

Jean "Moisture" Schmidt!

Thanks, BradBlog, for following and updating this story.

""Jean Schmidt has displayed a pattern of taking money from groups in exchange for pushing their agendas" said David Krikorian "Whether it be taking money from the trucking industry to raise the federal weight limit on tractor-trailer trucks despite the public safety hazard and road damage concerns or taking money from the banking lobby to push for bailouts for the banking industry or in this case taking money from the Turkish lobby in exchange for pushing its denial of the Armenian Genocide, Jean Schmidt has shown that she is for sale in the US House."

And criminal charges will come when ?

Turkish Coalition of America in attack mode:
http://turkeyamericablog...s-by-armenian-lobby.html

It's a blog so maybe worth a visit

Bizarre...I posted on FDL what WMR provided its readership with about the Schakowsky "drowning", and followed it with the Tribune article I posted here. The initial post was pulled, with no explanation, even though Wayne gave clear sourcing... After that, I tried to post a question asking why my posts are being censored, and the post didn't even go up...it was blocked.

Brad, you expressed disdain for Madsen's sourcing when he noted Schakowsky's role in the ATC bribery scenario. He provides credible cites for this tragic news, so I hope that you will let this stand...

According to today's Chicago Tribune, a local coroner said that McLaughlin died of asphixiation while snorkeling.

The news involving Schakowsky's son-in-law happened after the congresswoman was identified in a WMR exclusive as being subjected to a Turkish intelligence lesbian sexual blackmail operation involving Schakowsky and a female employee of a Turkish government-run organization in Washington, DC. The information was provided to WMR by federal law enforcement and congressional sources.

http://www.aztlan.net/israeli_sexpionage.htm

Sexpionage is a foreign espionage tactic practiced by our alleged allies, Israel and Turkey, for purpose of blackmailing elected public representatives - costing us Trillions of dollars, the abandonment of our own national security and moral principles.

JOE LIEBERMAN helped to set-up Bill Clinton in the Lewinsky affair to enable Israel to blackmail the President of the United States.

http://www.rense.com/general69/col.htm

THIS IS TREASON.

Lieberman was the first prominent Democrat to criticize Clinton for his affair with Monica Lewinsky.

Joe Lieberman knows all about Israel's intelligence efforts inside the US to ensnare the most powerful governmental officials in lustful entaglements - as SEXPIONAGE is a primary weapon in Israel's War Against The American People.

Lieberman knows for a fact that Chandra Levy was a Mossad plant - a "Swallow," placed close to Gary Condit in order to seduce him (for blackmail) and to gather secret intelligence (Condit was on a powerful Intelligence Committee).

Lieberman knows all about Israel's Blackmail and espionage inside the United States, and he is complicit in enabling it.

Sexpionage is so important to Israel, that it has opened an office for this purpose right smack in the center of US political power --- Washington D.C. The office fronts as a post 911 anti-terrorism institute and is located at 3811 N. Fairfax Drive, Suite 720 Arlington, VA 22203. The Chief of the office is non other that the immediate former Director of the Israeli MOSSAD, Shabtai Shavit.

JOE LIEBERMAN - CHOOSE SIDES.

Expose the truth behind Ariel Joseph Weinmann's recent arrest for passing TOP SECRET American Submarine data to Israel. This case is as big as the Pollard spy scandal, and the American Media will not even cover it.

JOE LIEBERMAN - CHOOSE SIDES.

Kobi Alexander, former Comverse CEO is wanted on FEDERAL charges.

WHERE IS KOBI ALEXANDER?

Why is he in the WITNESS PROTECTION PROGRAM if he is only guilty of Securities Fraud?

He and Dov Zakheim were OPERATIONALLY INVOLVED IN 9/11 - THAT is why Alexander is being protected by CO-CONSPIRATOR, Dick Cheney.

The reason the GOP, Mel Sembler (the guy who facilitated the Niger Forgery AND led the Scooter Libby Legal Defense Fund) and Rove helped LIEBERMAN GET RE-ELECTED, is that he is a mole for the Shadow Government behind 9/11.

CHOOSE SIDES JOE.

I'M WITH THE AMERICANS.

Now, about Rahm...

The posts that seemed to have been blocked on the Sibel Edmonds matter at Firedoglake, have been restored. May have been a glitch...

Hey Plunger...long time, no see...

""Jean Schmidt has displayed a pattern of taking money from groups in exchange for pushing their agendas" said David Krikorian "Whether it be taking money from the trucking industry to raise the federal weight limit on tractor-trailer trucks despite the public safety hazard and road damage concerns or taking money from the banking lobby to push for bailouts for the banking industry or in this case taking money from the Turkish lobby in exchange for pushing its denial of the Armenian Genocide, Jean Schmidt has shown that she is for sale in the US House."

And criminal charges will come when ?

If it is done legally they never will. Being a shill for special interests is not necessarily a crime.

Oh yeah because it's TURKISH influence that is tearing America apart. If only we had a more evenhanded approach to countries that have issue with the actions of the TURKISH government the world would be a much more peaceful place.

I fear the deposition material is going to get bottled up by the Ohio Elections Commission somehow. I have no legal reasoning behind this concern, but it seems like an ideal choke point if one wanted suppress this.

The video should have been released by now, or Sibel's prepared statement at the least. Are they waiting until after the Commission hearings to release it? If so, see the above concern.

Shouldn't John conyers' office be all over this?

There's something . . . striking about the comments today.

Fixed?

I have been following Ms. Edmond's revelations from the beginning. If what she knows is every revealed to the American people sans a media filter, look out. Heads which should have rolled years ago will start rolling with a vengeance. 'bout time.

First the “octo-mom”, not this weird “sibellydancer”… Sheesh! Give me a break! If you believe this shady woman, who is discredited and fired by FBI 7+ years ago and who is trying to get back to FBI payrolls since, then you can believe the world is flat. Nothing she said is new and all tall tales. The real question is why “sibellydancer” now? It is now because Krikorian, in a desperate attempt to disprove charges of libel he shamelessly leveled against an honorable Congresswoman Schmidt, is using anything that he thinks might help him and his sick cause of peddling a bogus genocide. But it is too little, too late. Krikorian made his bed, now he will have to lie in it. He will find out, the hard way, that the U.S. is a country of laws, not slanderous claims.

Armenians poisoned for decades the columns and screens in this country with their brand of racist and dishonest history. Now they are trying to close the door on fair-minded readers from finding out the deception behind the Armenian claims. Myth substitutes facts. Politics voids scholarship. Perception replaces precision. Votes beat facts. Ill-informed editors regurgitate propaganda for quick pats on the shoulder. And a bogus genocide is marketed as the whole truth. A sad day for freedom of speech when the truth cannot be spoken for fear of being branded a genocide denier by outspoken genocide falsifiers.

Wow, the radical right is raging like a beast. If it were possible, they'd fool the very elect...

Jon from Iowa...

There's something . . . striking about the comments today.

Fixed?

What do you mean?
--------

M, did you look at the site Sibel mentioned above? Norman just plaigiarized a few lines...sort of a faux, or copycat rage.

#15 abnormal Israel should be taken with a grain of red sea salt.

The last batch of Polonium that Norm sold to the Tunga was well past it's half life expiration date.

Then he refused to refund the 20 grand per ounce we paid in hard yuan rubles!

Basement nukers beware! Normal Norm is a phoney. You could get a hotter product from a Jacker Crack box.

"involving Schakowsky and a female employee of a Turkish government-run organization in Washington, DC."

http://onlinejournal.com...blish/article_5007.shtml

This is the Wayne Madsen post about the Democratic House woman from Chicago.

Google made an excellent point:

"So you can imagine an ad by a Nazi group that said the Holocaust is a myth," a person familiar with Google's policies told FOXNews.com...

Correction Tunga #15 should be taken with all the dead sea's salt

Brad,

Why is it relevant to your reporting that the alleged affair was "lesbian"?

"Turkey America" - isn't that the new KFC/GOP sandwich???

Sorry........

"I'll have a 'Turkey America' with freedom fries...hold the mayo on that 'Turkey America' sandwich, please..."

Yer thinking of the American Turkey, Danny....

@Mr. Trachtenberg It's relevant because like it or not that will make it more controversial in this country.

Styve #17,

I mean that the text for the entire comments section is struck out, and I made an unsuccessful coding attempt to end it.

COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
... Norman Israel said on 8/12/2009 @ 3:21 pm PT...

First the “octo-mom”, not this weird “sibellydancer”Are you being racist here?… Sheesh! Give me a break! If you believe this shady woman Shady ,how?, who is discredited When was Sibel discredited? and fired by FBI 7+ years ago and who is trying to get back to FBI payrolls since, then you can believe the world is flat. Nothing she said is new and all tall tales Really? . The real question is why “sibellydancer” now? NOW as apposed to the last seven plus years that she has tried to tell "her story" It is now because Krikorian, in a desperate attempt to disprove charges of libel he shamelessly leveled against an honorable Congresswoman Schmidt LOL honorable, is using anything that he thinks might help him and his sick cause of peddling a bogus genocide "BOGUS" really?. But it is too little, too late. Krikorian made his bed, now he will have to lie in it. He will find out, the hard way, that the U.S. is a country of laws so now you're a comedian , not slanderous claims.

Armenians poisoned for decades the columns and screens in this country WTF with their brand of racist and dishonest history Please explain your claim. Now they are trying to close the door on fair-minded readers Do you include yourself in this definition ? LOL from finding out the deception behind the Armenian claims What "deception" are you talking about? . Myth substitutes facts What "Myth"?. Politics voids scholarship What "scholarship"?. Perception replaces precision WTF. Votes beat facts WTF. Ill-informed editors regurgitate propaganda for quick pats on the shoulder WTF. And a bogus genocide is marketed as the whole truth Explain the "bogus genocide" . A sad day for freedom of speech when the truth cannot be spoken for fear of being branded a genocide denier LOL by outspoken genocide falsifiers Kinda like Holocaust denier ,good play on words there.

Maybe it should be illegal to investigate ALL claims of genocide or any Holocaust just so we have a level play field ?

That's very weird, Jon. There's no strike out for me on the site or the admin either... and hasn't been since sometime mid-morning.... Are you using some sort of exotic browser????

Assuming, David Krikorian case comes to an end, and they finally release Sibel's transcripts, and audio, and video. What then?

And if nothing..

Or assuming nothing happens, yet someone (anyone have a full list of who) has now read and heard Sibel's testimony, considering the material at hand in regards to national security's secrets and the really bad oath breakers in various places in our government who purportedly gave away those secrets, how is it not even one security clearance been yanked yet just to check if it's the testimony is accurate?

Whoever has heard Sibel's testimony (if they swore an oath), a reality and sanity check please, take action and uphold your own sworn oath.

How can our government argue for torture (even if it was acceptable) when they won't even investigate sworn testimony about domestic enemies in our own country?

If it stand's like this, the way I see it is.

America and it's government are nullified.

Which begs the question, if there are no more laws, then who and what is holding us together as a country and how much longer can it possibly last with such malfeasance?

I'm with Jon - all my text is struck also

99, I'm on I.E. 8. I know I've seen it break one or two other sites, but switching to "compatibility view" only makes the strikeout worse.

In regular I.E. 8, it starts with "Share this article with the world" and goes down the left-hand column. In compatibility, it starts after the "Donate to Brad Blog" image and hits both columns.

Okay, last night, I didn't notice any strikethrough problem on Bradblog, but this morning I got the following.

http://sacxtra.com/image...adblog.strikethrough.png

Our daily proof that the corporate MSM isn't liberal...we had Sibel Edmonds, Blackwater, the e-vote hacking at the Ca. college, and today's is:

When a scandal involving the Bush administration’s firing of US Attorneys broke in early 2007, initial coverage by the Washington Post supported the idea that the firings had been politically motivated. That approach, however, quickly changed to one that was far more friendly to the White House.

Emails show Washington Post reporter coordinated attorney firing story with White House

Doesn't PROOF & EVIDENCE mean anything anymore?

That's only stories in the LAST WEEK!!! That are being blacklisted!!!

Thanks JBNHM! Tungas subscription to National Geographic ran out in the 60's.

Dead Sea not Red sea. Got it!

Now about those scrolls...

#15 the person who wishes to use a fake Jewish sounding name must be very desperate.

Such dishonorable and cowardly practice reminds me of a well known Turkish individual who has made his life's mission to spread anti-Armenian hatred.

A certain E.K.

I also noticed an exploit for word press.
Hopefully someone updated Bradblog?

Hey, Jon, thanks for letting us know! By sheer "luck" I am forced to be on my mother's PC for a few days and I could go over to IE and thar she blew. Isn't that strange that it would only do it on one browser...? Brad zigged when he should have zagged or something.

Should be all fixed now. Thanks again.

Thank you, too, Phil. That was very kind of you to make that illustration. If I were at home, I might not have been able to see what the heck was going wrong and that would have saved all kinds of bad stuff... me freaking out... or me thinking Jon was seeing things... or a flame war between strikers and strikees....

It might have become epic!

Strike Force 99 from Planet X vs. The Stricken Commentariat of All Blogistan... we have averted disaster for sure....

Big Dan linked to a raw story piece about how the Bush White House and a Washington Post reported collaborated on the U.S. attorney firing scandal..

Well, in Iraq we had embedded journalists. Here, at home, we have "in bed with" journalists.

comment #42, ever see Danny Schechter's "Weapons of Mass Deception"? How the military/media worked together to get us into the wars? Embedded reporters?

The movie is in this post:

http://bigdanblogger.blo...ts-blinded-by-right.html

Like I said: the corporate so-called liberal media speaks for the few wealthiest, the military, corporations, and the government if government is doing things for THEM and not US.

Everyone needs to watch "Weapons of Mass Deception", if you didn't yet.

That was a great flick. Like Palast's reporting, one of those "if only people would open their eyes and ears."

@Tunga red sea's fine, I just wanted more salt.

Where's ANBCBSNNX's coverage of the black woman having her Rosa Parks sign stolen and crumpled up at a Town Hall meeting by a white guy?

http://www.google.com/#h...&fp=49a00ca4adea6ff6

http://thedailyvoice.com...sa-parks-002192.php/foul

She did get on CNN, according to the first story. This should be a #1 story in the news. Is it?

When you google "gun at obama town hall", you get all sorts of major networks on the first page, including CBS, MSNBC...when you google "maxine johnson mccaskill", you don't get a major network on the first page. Is it google? Or aren't they covering it?

This piece was written for another post, but directly links to the Sibel Edmonds' revelations.

Karl Rove: One of three known residences for Karl Rove is at 21 Dill Lane, Rosemary Beach, FL. Now that emails are surfacing implicating him in removal of Federal Judges, other issues more serious are also being considered.

1. Was the governor of Alabama framed by Rove's dirty tricks department?

2. If Rove is charged with High Crimes and Misdemeanors, does owning a home in Florida allow him a bolt hole?

We now learn that Scooter Libby was a peripheral distraction to a much larger crime located in Turkey. See 123realchange.blogger.com or Brad blog. Follow the trail to Rove, the Insider. Larry Franklin, convicted for spying - sentence suspended, and the Israeli Mossad are directly linked to Rumsfeld's Office of Special Plans, Dick Cheney, Scooter Libby, and Karl Rove.
Turkey is the hub of heroin manufacturing distributed by the Russian/Israeli Mafiya. The World Bank protected Turkey from these known crimes under Paul Wolfowitz. Robert Zoellick, his successor is also complicit. Patrick Fitzgerald and Jamie Gorelick (linked to Zoellick) were implicated in suppression evidence for 9-11 as early as 1995 according to Peter Lance's book 'Triple Cross'. Why?
Fear, marshal law, infrastructure for a police state in place, global overpopulation. Solve it by eliminating 80% of us. Valerie Plame was on to this Turkish hub, selling of nuclear secrets, salting evidence for weapons of mass destruction to Iraq by the Carlyle Group. The word went out to get Dick Wilson and his wife Valerie Plame. Sworn testimony by Sibel Edmonds in the Ohio Krikorian case implicates Marc Grossman and Richard Armitage as the real criminals who outed Valerie Plame. Karl Rove knows much. This is why he is protected. He is YOUR neighbor. Think about it.

The Solution: Use every means - twitter, blogs, person to person - speaking Truth to Power. The solar/hydrogen economy is ready for implementation. (Jeremy Rifkin, Roy McAlister, and Justin Sutton). Restore organic agriculture and nutrient density to our food. Simplify your lifestyle. Remember this country was established on freedom of religion. Jesus may be the only way, but he is also the Truth. Eliminate racism. YWAM (Youth with a Mission) and Christian missionaries are imposing a global theocracy in misguided hubris exploited by godless neocons. (The YWAM link is tenuous, but can be followed through the recent C street revelations.) I directly heard Pat Roberston allege that Christians had the right to usher in the kingdom of heaven on earth through a theocracy.
Anyone believing in a supernatural boogeyman does not have inner peace. Don't give money or power to be seen. Do it secretly. Giving out of fear is wrong. Separate judgment from discernment. Learn by talking to animals and listen to them. They will flee from you if you are arrogant.

Best video of the black woman who disrupted the town hall meeting by having her 'Rosa Parks' sign ripped up by a white guy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGiLZF--ehA

She was charged with: "Littering and having a sign torn up" (sarcastic)

Madsen responded to Brad Friedman's dismissive comments above...

I am curious about the Creamer revelation, though admittedly WMR assumes it to be common knowledge he is a "con". Is there any further news on this death of McLaughlin in Mexico?

-----------------

Just outing? Outing who? A major supporter of Friedman's American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) crowd being the subject of blackmail and also sitting in the oversight chair for the House Intelligence Committee is just outing? Excuse me, but Schakowsky's predicament primarily helps one country in the Middle East and it is not necessarily Turkey. The AIPACers know exactly where the Schakowsky matter is going to end up --- on the front steps of the Israeli embassy in Washington, the scene of so many other espionage operations directed against the United States. In fact, a NSA source has confided that Israel, after China, now poses the most significant hostile intelligence threat to the United States.

But Friedman has a little problem with Jan being the subject of the lesbian "hooking" operation. Schakowsky's husband is Richard Creamer, an ex-con who also happens to write for Friedman's Los Angeles friend Arianne Huffington's "Huffington Post." And with the body of Creamer's son-in-law being found floating in the Caribbean waters off Mexico while the family was vacationing there, the day after WMR broke the Schakowsky story, there must be some real dread among the AIPAC "amen corner" in Los Angeles.

The truth is certainly uncomfortable for certain quarters whether they be on the web or not. The usual suspects can always be expected to go on the attack --- I have been experiencing the slinging of mud for years from the one-time CIA applicant who runs DailyKos not to mention the Democratic Underground lads who call WMR a "highly unrealiable and/or bigoted web site." It seems that Mr. Allen, also known as "Skinner," cannot make up his mind with his "and/or" statement.

...Friedman's American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) crowd...

If there is any merit to that accusation, I want a really, really biiiiiig check, but, well, no wonder Brad doesn't think much of his journalism....

‘August 13, 2009
COLUMBUS - U.S. Rep. Jean Schmidt’s Armenian-American opponent probably made false statements during the 2008 campaign about contributions she received from Turkish political action committees, a unanimous three-member panel of the Ohio Elections Commission ruled today’.

We, Turks are used to such immoral Armenian tactiques. let us concentrate on the attitute of the Armenians towards the scholars or people who do not support their thesis up till now:
The home of American Professor Stanford Shaw of the University of California-Los Angeles was firebombed in retaliation for his academic courage in disputing the Armenian genocide claim, in 1977 http://www.washingtontim.../armenian-crime-amnesia/
http://209.232.239.37/gt...ewIncident.aspx?id=56624

Sixty nine academicians who specialized in Turkish, Ottoman and Middle Eastern studies from 44 different American universities and colleges published a declaration in The New York Times on May 19, 1986 and declared:

…….No signatory of this statement wishes to minimize the scope of Armenian suffering. We are likewise cognizant that it cannot be viewed as separate from the suffering experienced by the Muslim inhabitants of the region. The weight of evidence so far uncovered points in the direction of serious inter-communal warfare (perpetrated by Muslim and Christian irregular forces), complicated by disease, famine, suffering and massacres in Anatolia and adjoining areas during the First World War. Indeed, throughout the years in question, the region was the scene of more or less continuous warfare, not unlike the tragedy which has gone on in Lebenon for the past decade. The resulting death toll among both Muslim and Christian communities of the region was immense. But much more remains to be discovered before historians will be able to sort out precisely responsibility between warring and innocent, and to identify the causes for the events which resulted in the death or removal of large numbers of the eastern Anatolian population, Christian and Muslim alike………… the history of the Ottoman-Armenians is much debated among scholars, many of whom do not agree with the historical assumptions embodied in the wording of H.J.Res.192. ….Such a resolution, based on historically questionable assumptions, can only damage the cause of honest historical enquiry, and damage the credibility of the American legistlative process.

The producers of the ‘historical documentary film Sarı Gelin (www.sarigelinbelgeseli.com) suggested to interview some of these academicians. However they were rejected because these academicians and their families were threatened by the Armenians, via telephone calls and letters, in 1986 for signing this declaration. Justin McCarthy’s family had to get police protection. Prof. McCarthy himself was threatened with losing his job if he continued his research. http://turkishweekly.net.../top/comments.php?id=594, http://www.tallarmeniant...com/69histors-charny.htm, http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/intimidate.htm
The Armenians sued Bernard Lewis, the French historian famous for his Middle Eastern and Ottoman studies, in France, in 1993 just because he wrote in Le Monde that 'the 1915 events were not ‘genocide’.

American judge Samuel Weems’s life was threatened by the Armenians since he published his book ‘A terrorist State: Armenia’.

In Netherlands, Turkish origined party members who told that they did not agree with the Armenian thesis were discharged from the party, because of the pressure of the Armenian voters of the country.

Additionally, Turkish university students studying in the USA are under threat of Armenian students, just because they reject the Armenian claims. In some universities it reaches to such an extreme point that one young university student needs police escort.

'Oath of Asala' which is a branch of Asala declared that they would spare GAKAVYAN's life in case he abandoned this apology project and disclosed the names of the people who urged him to do so, according to the Armenian newspaper "Azg",http://www.radikal.com.tr/Radikal.aspx?
aType=RadikalHaberDetay&ArticleID=921474&Date=14.02.2009&CategoryID=98. The petition of Dr. Armen Gavakian from the Macquarie University in Sydney, who is also co-chair of the Turkish-Armenian Dialogue Group would read "I apologize to the Ottomans and Turks for murders committed in the name of the Armenian people and I empathize with the feelings and pain of the Ottomans and Turks." http://www.hurriyet.com....sh/domestic/10904739.asp

Recently, French Jack Lang who was one of the strongest supporters of 2001’s Armenian bill in French parliament, and was head of the then Parliamentary Foreign Relations Commission said he had voted against a controversial bill adopted by the French parliament making it a crime to deny recognition of 1915 incidents as “genocide”, because the action was abused for election interests. "The denial bill was passed with the aim of an election investment, not because they understood the pains of Armenians. Accordingly it is dangerous that history is made by politicians," he said. The Armenian diaspora in France directed fierce criticism at Lang over his recently published remarks. Soon afterwards, he declared that he had not changed his position and would continue to fight for that genocide of the Armenian people be recognized especially in Turkey. http://armenians-1915.bl...ery-intimidation-in.html, http://www.lemonde.fr/so...le-net_1150313_3224.html

And at present saying what happened in 1915 is not genocide could be life threatening in Republic of Armenia. Imagine giving a conference with Turkish academicians there. And did you hear any Armenian who attempted to hold a conference advocating that Armenian genocide did not occur, in Armenia? Even Armenian historian Sarafian, the head of the London-based Gomidas Institute, said "Freedom of expression for historians in Armenia is limited and the genocide issue has become a political tool and for historical investigations Armenia is a wrong address
. http://www.hurriyet.com....estic/10426989.asp?scr=1.
1900

It is a fact that even books written by Armenian leaders and historians which criticize the Armenian Dashnaks like the book of Katchaznouni, the first prime-minister of the Armenian state, Dashnagzoutiun Has Nothing to do Anymore, the book of K.S.Papazian ‘Patrionism Perverted’ are banned in Armenia.

In spite of all these facts, the Armenians and the Western and biased journalists continuously attack the Turks, claiming that the Armenian thesis can not be discussed in Turkey, since freedom of speech is absent.

Could anybody tell me, if Armenian thesis were banned in Turkey, then how could Armenian historian Ara Sarafyan give a conference on the thesis of Armenian genocide in İstanbul and discuss them with the Turkish citizens? http://www.turkishdailyn...ticle.php?enewsid=102831

Moreover if all the historians who do not support the Armenian thesis were people hired by the Turkish government, and if the Turkish government pays historians if and only if they support the Turkish thesis, as claimed by the Armanian diaspora, then how has Fatma Muge Gocek, a Turkish origined scholar who supports the Armenian thesis been able to be a board member of the Institute of Turkish Studies financed by Turkish government in Georgetown University, Columbia
( http://www.turkishstudies.org/about.html )? How could she give conferences supporting the Armenian views up till now? She is the second Turkish origined academician the Armenians approve after Taner Akçam http://www.armeniangenoc...om/showthread.php?t=2471 http://www.eraren.org/in...aleler&MakaleNo=3008 (Can you imagine Taner Akçam, who advocated the Armenian claims in Minnesota University up till now and was financed by Zorian Armenian Institute as confirmed by the university authorities (http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/univ-Minn.htm), give conferences against the Armenian thesis?)

Moreover, as a most important point, Turkish historians, Turkish prime minister and Turkish Assembly several times suggested Armenia to discuss these events together with historians from both sides and historians from other countries. Everybody in Turkey knows very well that those who advocate the Armenian thesis most passionately are the Armenians themselves. Could anybody tell me again if Turkey was a place where Armenian thesis were banned, then why did Turkish prime minister and Turkish Assembly several times call on Armenia to discuss these events with whoever they choose?

No wisdom can overlook this hypocrisy of Western journalism and policy.

Zekiye is one of several pseudonymns used by the incoming President elect of the ATAA, Ergun Kirlikovali.

Apparently he missed out on "editing for dummies" back in the fatherland.

[ed note: Comment deleted. fehmi, please read our commenting rules. Lengthy copy and pastes of material available elsewhere should be linked instead of pasted. Thank you. --99]

Hey! Wait! No Genocide! I can prove it!

1. So called Armenians were just lost campers who had tough time with Turkish national park system roads during time of war and bad rains. They forgot to bring sun block to Syria, had no comfortable shoes also. Very sorry they did not pack adequate food, water and GPS devices. Really! Sorry! Whose fault is this?

2. Armenians are just looking for money, so they invent other non-existent groups, like so called Assyrians and Greeks, all to help them get better seats in Restaurants in Napa Valley than Dick Gebhardt, our spokesmodel. There is no document proving these people existed. None! Therefore, there is no document that can prove they died! For all we know Armenians are still there, gouging the honest Muslims of Anatolia. Yes!

3. At most, only 8,000 of these so called Armenian people so called died during so called Genocide, actually mass camping and hiking problems. Right now,Kurds are also having camping problems. Mistakes were made! Sorry! No Genocide! Turkish Historical Society has proof! Imperialistic Western Christian Crusaders ignore proof, all are racist!

4. Please call our leading expert, an Orange County resin maker, who knows better than any so-called historian [actually racist Turk haters, all of them] Ergun Kirlikovali. He can tell you!

5. Kurds did it.

6. Germans made us do it.

7. Russians made it happen, the camping thing I mean.

8. Armenians who camped in Syria were in good cardio health as a result.

Since the same person claimed that I am really Ergun Kırlıkovası, before, I decided to reply. I am Zekiye İçli. I have been interested in Armenian claims since my childhood which was deeply affected by Armenian terrorist activities and murders. I live in Ankara, not in the USA. To react Armenians’ dishonest claims, one need not live in the USA, be a Turkish American or a member of Turkish lobby.

On this occasion, I want to remind the readers the terrorist activities of the Armenians:
Did the Armenians not establish outlawed terrorist organizations ASALA, JCAG (Justice Commandos for Armenian Genocide) and ARA (Armenian Revolutionary Army) and did they not perform dozens of murders and hundreds of terrorist activities? Because of these Armenian terrorist organization’s activities, did 70 people not die (39 of whom being innocent Turkish diplomats); were 524 people not wounded; were 105 not pledged? Additionally did these organizations not perform 208 bombing activities during 1975-1986? Then, did they not pass on their trade to kill Turkish people to the PKK.

What did the American Armenians do when Armenian Yanıkyan, who murdered the Turkish diplomats Mehmet Baydar and Bahadır Demir in Santa Barbara, California and surrendered the police? The Armenians gathered around the district and SALUTED the murderer!!

During the trial, bus load of Armenian children, aged 7-13, were transported from Los Angeles area, and when Mr. Yanikian was escorted to the room they rose in unison to greet a man who was their hero, just because he had murdered two innocent men.

Just at that time, Armenian-Americans quickly mobilized and formed a group called "American Friends of Armenian Martyrs" to raise funds for his defense and to use the court case as "an educational campaign to bring the story of Turkish genocide before the American and world attention" (Armenian Mirror-Spectator, March 24, 1973). Until his death almost a decade later, a few months after he was released from prison on the order of the then California governor, George Deukmejian, Yanikian continued to receive gifts and supportive letters from Armenian-Americans (ATAA, Armenian Atrocities and Terrorism, Washington, 1997; http://www.ataa.org/refe...IS6_Berkoz_Affidavit.pdf).

The Armenian criminal of Orly Airport massacre, Karapetyan, a member of ASALA, who was imprisoned for 18 years then set free by France, returned to Armenia in May 2001, he was welcomed by the then Armenian prime minister A.Margaryan, the Armenian folk and journalists who applauded him as if he were a national hero. A. Margaryan told that he appreciated this hero’s service for his country. Armenian Yerivan municipality provided work and house for the MURDERER 1179 (www.prima-news.ru/news/articles/2001/9/13/15705.html)

The 28 January 1982, Turkey’s Los Angeles Consul General Kemal Arikan was killed by the dashnak militant Hampig Sassounian, who was sentenced to life imprisonment. Sassounian's father stated on public television, "I am glad that a Turk was killed, but my son did not do it."

A campaign to provide funds for Sassounian's defense raised $250,000 in small donations from Armenian-Americans throughout the United States. (Michael M. Gunter, "Pursuing the Just Cause of Their People": A Study of Contemporary Armenian Terrorism, Wesport-New York, Greenwood Press, 1986, p. 74.)

After Hampig Sassounian was found guilty of murdering the Turkish Consul in Los Angeles in 1982... Bishop Yeprem Tabakian, the prelate of the Western Prelacy of the Armenian Apostolic Church, stated: "Hampig's conviction is an indictment directed against all Armenians." Archbishop Vatche Hovsepian, the primate of the Western Diocese of the Armenian Church, added: "I am truly shocked about the verdict

* Levon Marashlian, of the Glendale College of Armenian history and culture, said Armenian terrorists are "patriots who have been waiting for 70 years." An Armenian student of Dr. Dennis Papazian, professor of history and the University of Michigan in Dearborn, was quoted as saying: "In a way, I'm kind of proud of the terrorists." (Gunter, "Pursuing the Just Cause of Their People:" A Study of Contemporary Armenian Terrorism, pp. 99-100).

Since 1984, ARF commemorate every year the suicide-attack against the Turkish embassy in Lisbonne (25 July 1983), and describe the five terrorists as "heroes" (Gaïdz Minassian, Guerre et terrorisme arméniens, Paris, PUF, 2002; http://www.tallarmeniant...om/terror-case-study.htm).

*A monument of Tehleryan, the murderer of Talat Pasha was erected in Yerivan in 2006 (Milliyet March 17,2006 and Agos March 24, 2006; http://www.tallarmeniant...s/tehlirian-monument.JPG).

*Mourad Topalian, ex-leader of Armenian National Committee of America was sentenced to 36 months in prison for his complicity in bombing the Turkish mission at the United Nations. In spite of this, he was not labeled a terrorist by Armenian Americans.1180

Murad Topalian, former president of the Armenian National Committee of America (ANCA) was sentenced to 37 months of jail for storing of weapons and explosives, linked to a terrorist group. In France, Ara Toranian, president of the Coordination Committee of French Armenian Association from 2003 to 2007, and still currently the most prominent character of Armenian community of France, was the sopkesman of the terrorist group ASALA, from 1976 to 1983, then of a dissident group, ASALA-RM, from 1983 to its destruction by French police, in 1985.

I call every human and every official of foreign governments to ask themselves if they ever did their duty to react Armenian terrorism and violence.

And also ask if the world public did its duty to give evidence-based responses to the massacres inflicted upon Turks/Muslims by the Armenians in Anatolia in the 1st World War (ATAA, Armenian Atrocities and Terrorism, Washington, 1997, p. 28, available: http://karabakh-doc.azer.../armyanstvo/arm12eng.htm ), which started long before the Armenian deportation and to aforementioned Armenian terrorism, so as not to let genocides repeat themselves. The answers are two big ‘NO’s.

I call the public opinion to pay attention to the courage of the Armenians to perform new Turkish massacres during their invasion of the Azerbaijani territory in 1992: One woman’s fingers were plucked and two men’s skins were flayed. (The Economist March 7, 1992, p.48), some were burned, some of the bodies were destroyed (New Republic Vol 206, No 14, April 6, 1992, p.11); more than 1000 Azarbaijani Turks were massacred (‘Faces of Massacre’ Newsweek, March 16, 1992; ‘Massacre by Armenians Being Reported’. The New York Times, March 3, 1992)].1149

Here are other examples showing that the Armenians have adopted the language of violence as a life style:

The Armenians committed sabotage upon the house of American historian Prof Stanford J Shaw just because he declared that Armenian genocide did not occur in 1977 http://www.washingtontim.../armenian-crime-amnesia/
http://209.232.239.37/gt...ewIncident.aspx?id=56624).

Turkish prime minister, Assembly several times suggested Armenia to discuss these events together with historians from both sides and even historians from other countries. Armenia persistently refused. By making the parliaments pressure to pass genocide resolutions, Armenia aims to bypass historical realities and wants to escape from facing with its own history unlike Turkey.

Therefore, people, countries and journalists who support Armenia in its policy, foster and approve violence which had become Armenian national language, instead of supporting dialogue and peace for the world.

PC: But, when Hrant Dink was murdered, Turkish people, president, all members of goverment, bureaucrats from all levels, journalists sincerely mourned and condemned the murderer. Millions of Turkish citizens gathered in his funeral ceremony and shouted as ‘we are all Armenian’ with tears. Including the annual Press Freedom Award of Turkish Journalist Association, Hrant Dink was awarded with many prizes, after his death. Additionally, 60 000 illegal Armenian immigrant workers who are Armenian citizens are working throughout Turkey, at present. If Turkey and Turks also adopted the language of violence, how could these Armenians go on working in this country?

Zekiye,

I don't have time, nor does Brad have the space for me to respond to the entire piece you have posted. Lets just agree to disagree.

But what you have written about the death of Hrant Dink is sickening and immoral. And you are immoral for posting it. It is a disgrace. And so are you. If we lived in the age of the duel I would challenge you to one. You are without honor, as is true with so many of your ideological stablemates. You ply Americans with lies.

First, Hrant Dink was driven almost to despair and certainly to death by nationalists who spout savage racist language, seemingly without noticing it. You all spew language that Nazis use: Armenians, a a group, are liars, deceivers, falsifiers, traitors, terrorists, cowards and murderers. This is just what Hitler said of Jews. It is what people like you also say of Kurds, Greeks and Arabs. They got what they deserved, but while Americans are listening, we deny that they got anything at all.

Two weeks before his death Dink reported to others that he was summoned to a government office where he was told how easy it would be for the deep state to arrange his death at the hand of a young man if he did not back off calling the Genocide a Genocide. He received numerous death threats directed to his sons. See Radikal article on the threats.

The vicious,national and consuming racial hatred of these people, and of people like you, is what killed Dink, let's not pretend otherwise. He was prosecuted and persecuted. Dink was the 1,500,001st Armenian victim of Turkish racial hatred.

Now you try to pretend otherwise, showing that you do not even have the courage of the savage. You and your fellow fascists seek to profit first by the killing of Dink, and then by pretending to mourn him.

Your ideological kinsmen Kirlikovali, the incoming president of the ATAA wrote on the day of the killing that an Armenian killed him. He has never retracted.

You say millions throughout Turkey mourned the death. In truth, the crowds at Taksim and in Istanbul were measured at about 125,000; of these at least 2/3 were Kurds, Armenains and other minorities. It quickly became the fashion after the death for nationalists to wear white skull caps of the type worn by the killer to mock the death; a popular song came out mocking the death, and all those who said "We are all Hrant, We are all Armenian" were mocked by a popular song saying "I am a Turk,etc."

After the shooting, many members of the Armenian community received death threats; vandalism was common, the Patriarch was threatened, and the police looked aside.

You say you mourn Dink. You lie. What have you done to protest the conditions which created his death? What have you done to protest the Trabzon police who infamously had their pictures taken with the assassin, all smiling, under the Turkish flag, blood red with infamy, to them a celebrated symbol of murder.

Do you stand with the murderers? It seems so. Please have the decency to admit ti, rather than to profess to a westernaudience some concern about a man whose death made youand your 40 million soulk mates smile with delight.

It is tragic that a person from Armenian diaspora above, degrades the Turkish citizens, we, who held a big funeral for Hrant Dink and held the placards on which it was ‘We are all Armenians’ were written, claiming that we were all Armenians previously but then became Muslim!
I was one of those who held these placards with my close friends. Neither I nor my close friends nor friends of my friends were Armenians then or previously. I was the one whose family had been living in the Central Anatolia since 1400’s, as Turkmens; and whose grandparents perished in World War I. But we did not hesitate to hold these placards and condemn terrorism.

Because the common point which made us angry and shed tears was not our ethnic identities. It was only OUR HEARTS which beat without being dependent on nationality, race, sect, hatred and religion.

It was just our HUMAN feelings. If the Armenians could not take this message, as it seems, they should question their hearts. They should ask their hearts when they lost to receive such human messages. While being fed by Turkish hatred? (http://www.readersdigest.ca/mag/2006/10/hate_to_hope.php; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WUdLgof56Bw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiYsgpJY48c). While rewriting Armenian history, depending on hatred to Turks?

I have to remark that:

-Although I knew that the Armenians massacred the Turks and Muslims relentlessly much before deportation http://www.tsk.mil.tr/EN..._Archive_Documents.html; http://www.karabakh-doc..../armyanstvo/arm12eng.htm),

-Although I knew that the present Armenian thesis depends on forgeries like so-called Talat Paşa telegrams (http://www.ataa.org/reference/andonian-ataov.html, http://www.eraren.org/in...ayinIcerik&SayiNo=15), depended on misinformation like Ambassador Morgenthau’s reports (http://www.eraren.org/index.php?Lisan=en&Page=YayinIcerik&SayiNo=18), missionaries (http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/salt-missionaries.htm) and British state propaganda (http://www.ttk.org.tr/templates/resimler/File/fulltex) which fostered Armenian mythomania (Erich Feigl A Myth of Terror, http://www.mns.gov.az/do...A_MYTH_OF_TERROR_LOW.pdf)
http://www.tallarmeniantale.com/gilles.htm

-Although I knew that the Armenians killed 70 people, 39 being innocent Turkish diplomats, and held hundreds of terrorist activities by their terrorist organizations ASALA, JCAG (Justice Commandos for Armenian Genocide) and ARA (Armenian Revolutionary Army) between 1975-1986 and later started to support PKK,
(http://www.ermenisorunu.gen.tr/english/terrorism/armenian.html)

-Although I knew that these murders were supported by the Armenian folk http://www.ataa.org/refe...IS6_Berkoz_Affidavit.pdf

-Although I knew that these murders were supported by the Armenian government individually (The then Armenian prime minister A.Margaryan welcomed Armenian criminal of Orly Airport massacre, Karapetyan, a member of ASALA holding a state ceremony, during which he told that the Armenians and Armenian government were grateful to their great hero.
www.prima-news.ru/news/a...les/2001/9/13/15705.html)

I did not hesitate to take part in the parade for Hrant.

Because, I knew that I am, as one of inheritants of the soil I am living on, I owe much to Armenians too, whose hearts did not lose her sensors for human feelings and did not approve Armenian Dashnaks like Armenian Dr Maltizyan and many others. It is a fact that Armenian Dashnaks of the past are surviving in character of the Armenian diaspora at present.

Here is the dramatic end of Armenian doctor, Dr Maltızyan: In Van, all Muslim men and youngsters were on their military service and the Muslims who stayed in the city were only women, children and very old people.

In February and March 1915, Armenians rebelled in several parts of Van. The hospitals were full of wounded soldiers. In January 1915, 120 chidren aged 11-13 had had to take weapons and munitions to Iran, in order to support the Turkish army fighting in Iran and became deficient in weapons and munitions, since there were not any available people left. Under hard winter conditions, 41 children were lost, 39 were frozen and only 40 were rescued the majority requiring urgent intervention and treatment. Dr Maltızyan, an Orthodox Armenian doctor who was known to serve everybody without any discrimination and a Turkish doctor Dr Refik Bey treated and looked after these children day and night, in a big house which was transformed to an hospital and saved 22 children out of 40 (February-March 1915).
On April 10, 1915, at midnight Dr Maltızyan was called to hospital by an unknown person, for an urgent case. However, his body was found hung with a rope on a tree in the morning. On his body a note was attached: ‘This is the end of people who serve our enemies’. For more information about Van Rebellion of Armenians see: http://www.tbmm.gov.tr/yayinlar/yayin1/5-Celik(87-108).pdf

It is another fact that Armenian Dashnaks assasinated wealthy Armenians who rejected to give money to them, like I. Jamharian (who rejected to give them 30 000 ruble) and Baliozian from İzmir, Gerektzian from Erzurum, A. Vartabed , priest of Van’s Ahdamar Church and his co-priest Mihran. And prominent Armenians like D. Davit, G.Manoug, B.Capamajian, B.Atamian, S.Keyfjian, M.Aghazarian and H.Arakelian who objected the terrorist activities of Dashnaks were eradicated by the Dashnaks…..

Armenian Papazian, the writer of the book ‘Patrionism Perverted. A discussion of the deeds and misdeeds of the Armenian Revolutionary Federation. The so-called Dashnagtzoutune’ by K.S.Papazian Boston, Baikar Press, 1934’ which is forbidden in Armenia now, said that conscience of all upright Armenians was deeply disturbed by Dashnak’s relentless murders.

Note that Pierre Nora, president of the association ‘Liberty for history’ complained of that history became a slave of politics and currency, which restricted freedom of the historians (http://www.lph-asso.fr//articles/46.html, . http://www.lph-asso.fr//tribunes/49.html).

The world opinion should take it seriously that not only the historians, all HUMAN BEINGS AND CLEAN FEELINGS OF ALL HUMANS or HUMANITY in all, are under threats of politics, racism and currency now.

However, as Mustafa Kemal Atatürk stated ‘It is possible to deceive the ‘half of the world’ ‘continually’; and ‘all of the world’ ‘for a while’. However it is not possible to deceive ‘all of the world’ ‘continually’.

Z. Akarsu;

You are ignorant of history and current events. It is not my job to educate you. But I will place two points before you. Maybe, just maybe, you will read something other than what the Turkish Historical Society says is true.

Please do not pretend that the Turkish nation seriously mourned Hrant Dink or that more than a handful of people hate or are indiffferent to Armenians in your country.

The Turkish Nation prosecuted and persecuted Dink to death, and its nationalists gloated over the death by wearing white skull caps in the manner of the assassin Samast afterwards; the nation embraced the singer whose song said I am a Turk, and its mouthpieces in this country advanced lunatic theories that Dink was killed by an Armenian. The killer posed under the Turkish flag after the murder with smiling policemen.

We have such pictures in this country of police and citizens laughing at the scenes of lynchings of African Americans. That is Turkey. We changed. Will you?

Want mor:

Calling someone in Turkey "Ermeni" is considered an insult. The state distributed films to 8 year old children saying Armenians ate children, reminiscent of the blood libel against Jews, that they made matzoh with Christian childrens' blood.

Yes, a few score thousand people showed up and marched from Taksim, and some held aloft signs meaning "We are All Armenian, We are All Hrant."If you were brave enough to do that, Bravo. But I doubt it, because your heart holds only hatred.

For the most part, these marchers were Armenians, Kurds, intellectuals and secret policemen.

The rest of your post regurgitates pastes from Turkish nationalist sites, all of which feverishly deny Genocide, but provide a false if unspoken basis for it. The Turkish nationalist
agenda always attacks Armenians, and says between the lines that they got what they deserved.

Your "provocation" thesis is rejected by real historians, even Turkish ones. For example, Selim Derengel said 10 years ago that [your] "civil war thesis" was a "travesty of history which no historian with a conscience could accept". For that matter, see other Turkish historians: Fikret Adanir, Engin Akarli, Taner Akcam, Baskin Oran, Umit Ungor, Ahmet Insel, Fatma Gocek, and Yektan Turkyilmaz. Do you have any idea what the scholarship shows, or are you satisfired with what the state tells you the truth is.

The reason it fails is simple. The vast majority of those salughtered were unarmed and under guard. Hundreds of thousands of women, babies, elderly, and children were killed by state actors, Jandarmerie, and special action units loosed from the jails for the purpose of killing Armenians in 1914. The men were always either killed outright or killed after being conscripted and worked to death in labor battalions reminiscent of the slave labor Nazis made Jews and Gentiles perform.

Read also about the 500,000 Assyrian Christians killed at the same time. Even the fascists who filled you with propaganda and hate have not so far claimed that Assyrians revolted.

Reevaluate.