‘Emptywheel’ on Why Trump NatSec Team Should ‘Resign in Disgrace’ After Signal Chat Debacle: ‘BradCast’ 3/25/2025

Guest: National security journalist Marcy Wheeler of emptywheel.net...

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This one is really a debacle. It’s likely criminal as well, on several levels, according to today’s guest on The BradCast. [Audio link to full show follows this summary.]

You have likely heard by now about the group text chat that The Atlantic‘s Editor-in-Chief Jeffrey Goldberg was somehow invited to over the commercially-available mobile phone app called Signal, in which top-level Trump Administration cabinet officials, including Donald Trump‘s Defense Secretary and former Fox ‘News’ weekend host, Pete Hegseth, discussed specific U.S. attack plans for bombing Yemen,

Goldberg detailed on Monday (free link) how he was invited into the group chat by Trump’s National Security Advisor, Mike Waltz. Classified information was discussed in the conversation. But, while Goldberg knew better than to publish specifics, he explained: “What I will say, in order to illustrate the shocking recklessness of this Signal conversation, is that the Hegseth post contained operational details of forthcoming strikes on Yemen, including information about targets, weapons the U.S. would be deploying, and attack sequencing.”

Other Signal accounts participating in the group included those for JD Vance (Vice President), Marco Rubio (Secretary of State), Tulsi Gabbard (Director of National Intelligence), Scott Bessent (Treasury Secretary), John Ratcliffe (CIA Director), Stephen Miller (Deputy White House Chief of Staff), Susie Wiles (White House Chief of Staff) and Steve Witkoff (Special Envoy to the Middle East). That, as NPR reported today, the Signal app was cited in a Dept. of Defense email last week to all Pentagon employees, warning of a “vulnerability” exploited by “Russian professional hacking groups” that makes the app unsuitable for use by the military, even for non-public UNclassified information.

As luck would have it, the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee had a hearing already scheduled for today, with witnesses including Gabbard and Ratcliffe — both members of the Signal chat in question — and Kash Patel, Trump loyalist and wildly-unqualified FBI Director. While most Republicans on the Committee were interested in discussing anything but this matter, Dems were rightly laser focused on it, including the fact that Witkoff was apparently at the Kremlin for a meeting with Russian President Vladimir Putin this month when the text list, detailing plans to bomb Houthis in Yemen and reportedly revealing the identify of a senior CIA officer, were discussed.

We’re joined today by our friend and longtime independent national security journalist MARCY WHEELER. In her piece today at Emptywheel.net, she detailed “Seven Reasons Trump’s Entire National Security Team Should Resign in Disgrace” following the signal debacle. We step through each of those reasons with her today.

Wheeler was amazed that, even though the identities of everyone in the group were available to all members, nobody seemed to notice, or be troubled by, the inclusion of a journalist. Especially a journalist who Hegseth would go on to try and smear as “a deceitful and highly discredited, so-called journalist whose made a profession of peddling hoaxes time and time again.” That, after Hegseth revealed classified war plans to him in the Signal chat and the White House has already confirmed the matter.

Wheeler charges that Trump’s entire national security team in the group appears to have potentially violated Section F of the Espionage Act, which, in her words from her today, “makes it a crime to so negligently mishandle National Defense Information that someone not authorized to receive it does receive it.”

“If you are so stupid as to share attack plans on a Signal thread that a journalist happens to be accidentally added to, that may be criminal,” she tells me today, detailing how Section F of the Act bars the sharing of National Defense Information “through gross negligence”, etc. “In other words, Pete Hegseth shares information about this attack with somebody not entitled. Because Pete Hegseth is so stupid, that might get you to [Section F]. And you had the entire national security establishment just sitting there watching Pete Hegseth do that!”

There is also the matter of violating both the Presidential Records Act and Federal Records Act by setting comments in the chat group to automatically delete after a week. Moreover, she observes, the fact that Trump claimed on Monday afternoon to know nothing about the matter, even after the story was published in The Atlantic, means that either critical NatSec information was withheld from the President, or he was simply lying when he claimed to have known nothing about it when asked for comment by a journalist at the White House. Wheeler argues that’s “not plausible, because if he hadn’t been told in advance, he would be firing [group chat member and Chief of Staff] Susie Wiles right now. He’d be firing Mike Waltz right now. JD Vance. He would be firing everybody who knew this was going to come out and didn’t warn him. He hasn’t fired any of them, so we have to assume he was lying when he pretended he didn’t know anything about this.” She goes on to add: “But if he didn’t know anything about it, it means that he can’t trust anyone around him. That all the people who are running his national security are not keeping him in the loop.”

Also, the fact that Witkoff was in Russia, at the Kremlin, as a member of the group chat means that all of the accounts of other members on the list may also be compromised. “You bring a phone into Russia, they are going to compromise the phone. Sitting in the Kremlin with Vladimir Putin is really close to the top of the list of stupid things you can do with a phone when you’re planning war strikes,” says Wheeler. “The timing on it is quite clear. He was in the Kremlin when that list was started. Was his phone compromised? And if so, what else was on his phone? That’s, to my mind, one of the most pressing questions Democrats should be asking every minute.”

Tune in for much more on all of this from Marcy, including the outrage that FBI Director Kash Patel claimed during his Senate Intel Committee testimony today that he only just learned about the matter himself late last night, and that Trump’s Attorney General, Pam Bondi, is likely too busy doing Fox “News” hits to be troubled with enforcing the rule of law against fellow members of the Trump Administration, no matter how much danger they may have placed the country in with their negligence and/or incompetence.

ALSO ON TODAY’S PROGRAM: Desi Doyen is here with our latest Green News Report, covering a new round of wildfires in the very dry, very windy Carolinas this week, as Trump dismantles FEMA; a new warning about dwindling fresh water supplies thanks to disappearing glaciers as the climate continues to warm; and the fossil fuel industry calling in IOUs from Congress to block liability lawsuits from being filed against them for their roles in knowingly causing our worsening climate crisis…

The BradCast with Brad Friedman 3/25/2025
‘Emptywheel’ on Why Trump NatSec Team Should ‘Resign in Disgrace’ After Signal Chat Debacle: ‘BradCast’ 3/25/2025  |  Guest: National security journalist Marcy Wheeler of emptywheel.net...   · · · · ·   ‘Emptywheel’ on Why Trump NatSec Team Should ‘Resign in Disgrace’ After Signal Chat Debacle: ‘BradCast’ 3/25/2025  |  Guest: National security journalist Marcy Wheeler of emptywheel.net...
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