maybe because KOS hates democracy?

the man is a tool for somebody just wonder who.... he is against transparent and verifiable elections.

Brad, I read Kos' article and what you said in your post needed to be said.

He may be self distucting his Brand as a "Progressive," but I'm sure his Gatekeeping is enduring him to the MSM(doesn't he write for Newsweek now along with Rove?).

I really wonder if Markos has the sense or the decency to communicate with you about this, Brad....

I was over at DKos today and read his diary and was going to post here on another thread but didn't have the opportunity.

But I am glad that Brad is on top of this.

Yes,Markos and his designated goons do not appreciate anyone challenging them on this issue. They will delete diaries,hide comments,ban posters,and do what they think will be necessary to squash any such discussion of election irregularities.

My guess is that they fear that any proof of voter suppression during Democratic primaries will damage the Democrats chances to elect a President from their party.

I think that they are well aware of what they are doing and have decided that the risk of alienation of their posters is worth the price of continuing on their path.

", or just doesn't care to"; you've hit the nail upon the head Brad. And why should he given what he has accomplished? He's no more a 'progressive' than I am a Bushite. As the saying goes "politics breeds strange bedfellows'; It's a shame that Jim Hightower doesn't have the same readership but what can one expect from a nation of sheep?

heh...butt munchers

Re: He finds some dark conspiracy of "irrational Clinton hatred" fueling concern about New Hampshire's reported results, charging, without evidence, that those of us who think ballots should actually be counted by someone up there, have alleged a "dark conspiracy"...

Did you put those phrases in quotes to indicate he actually used them? If yes, this is truly remarkable, as this is exactly what Bush minions say about those of us who disapprove strongly of his administration's policies.

Maybe Markos is a Rove plant to discredit the progressive movement. I have to say, I'm a progressive, most of my close friends are progressives, and nobody I know likes or posts at his site, except in response to some outburst that really needs to be addressed.

MoveOn was doing the same thing a while back about Holt's H.R. 811, urging its members to call their representatives and insist that they pass H.R. 811, because "it's our last hope for election integrity in 2008." They've toned down their rhetoric considerably, in response to many, many members (such as myself) expressing strong concerns over their eagerness to push through legislation they obviously were ignorant about.

Maybe it's time for someone to write a substantive commentary and send it to major newspapers, and to major alternative news sites, addressing Markos' misunderstandings about EI.

OMG #2 def works Link

I have become very disillusioned with Markos Moulitsos over the past several months. He began by referring to the blogs as MSM along with the established press and tv (which he calls traditional media). It seems to me that he wants so badly to become part of the establishment, going to work for that rag Newsweek or Time with Karl Rove, I forget which because there is no difference between them. I think the blogs should be an alternative form of media, an alternative source of information from which the American public can get the truth, e.g., about the Sibel Edmonds affair and about how clean or unclean our elections are, as on this site, The Bradblog. There were two statements Moulitsas made last week that turned me completely off and caused me to remove the DailyKos from my bookmarks. One was that the electorate is completely happy with the choices it has as candidates and therefore, we do not need a third party candidate. The second was that everyone will rally around the Democratic candidate who is nominated no matter how he or she played the game, fairly or stealing the primaries. I take issue with both statements as an independent, and they prove how establishment Moulitsas has become.

It is time to start ignoring Kos as it has become all too obvious to most that this guy is anything but progressive. The plummeting traffic at the LostKos is mere fraction of what it was just over a year ago. People are seeing that the author of "Crashing the Gates" is now acting as an unfair gatekeeper.

The ability to deal with facts or admit error is not the strong suit of Markos. As you can see from the article he makes objectively false statements. Speaking with him in person was one of those big disappointing moments, as it was obvious from his statements that he had no clue what I was talking about yet he sure thought he did.

Too bad. Kos had potential and a lot of us used to be very regular at his site, but it now tends toward being a sewer of self aggrandizing idiocy and anger.

While this article is entirely true about how he operates, the only downside to it is that writing an article about him makes him out to be more important than he is or ever should be.

As Kos goes, so goes the "progressive" agenda. He defines the debate, just like Fox does, but for people of a certain class(mostly inside the beltway thinkers).

The easiest person to fool is yourself.

In general, I notice that people that use the term "Paper Trail" are completely clueless about the problem with electronic vote tabulation devices.
In other cases they have an agenda. Or are for electronic voting machines.

Most of you here know that is a term I have started using, "electronic vote tabulation devices" because it gets really specific.

And little deviations in language equal crap unvalidatable garbage counting votes. I also like to specifically differ that a PRINTER is not a vote tabulation device.

Where a SCANNER could be just an auditing device, it has been corrupted into becoming a vote tabulation device. It's no more accurate that if I took a video camera and a box of ballots and threw them off the San Francisco Golden Gate Bridge and video taped it and said this measure passed and that candidate won.

Finally, some kind of PRINTER is used to create ALL PAPER BALLOTS.

Why can't we simply interface the disabled to this printer?

Wham bam! This tool has needed a smackdown for a long time. Nice going, Brad.

Unfortunately Kos' attitude I've seen reflected amongst MANY Dems (including progressive radio hosts) who prefer to believe, without ever actually digging deep, that everything is fine, our elections are legit and 2 airplanes somehow knocked down three skyscrapers in 2001. Nothing to see here, move along.

Screw Kos. Stick to Smirking Chimp, Brad Blog, Raw Story, CLG and Buzzflash!

Support the one true antielection fraud candidate! Contribute to Clint Curtis for Congress '08!

Hey markos, ever hear of the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the TRUTH?

give 'im hell, Brad!

Markos is a divisive hack.

How anyone who claim's to be anti Bush can play the

foil of criminal Rove is beyond me.

Francis L Holland got Markos's game a while ago. Moulitsas is former CIA and, though he claims to be from a poor immigrant family, he has close ties to a rich family of hoteliers and businessmen in Central America:

This fascinating series of articles documents a relationship between Daily Kos owner Markos Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA and a wealthy and powerful Central American family, and the surprising admission that shortly before he launched Daily Kos, Markos Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA took a 6-month training course with the CIA and characterized his politics as "to the right of the DLC" (see auditape of commonwealth club speech, linked here: http://www.commonwealthc...6/06-06zuniga-audio.html

http://francislholland.b...litsas-mamz-lied-to.html

Why Has Markos Moulitsas (M.A.M.Z.) Lied to Us About His Salvadoran Oligarchy Family Background?

...I refer to Markos Alberto Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA as "MAMZ" simply because these are the initials of his full name, and because typing "MAMZ" requires five keystrokes while typing his full name requires thirty-four keystrokes (including the accent over the "U" and the tilde over the "Ñ" in "ZÚÑIGA." As with John F. Kennedy (JFK), Robert F. Kennedy (RFK) and Martin Luther King (MLK), it is perfectly appropriate and respectful in our society to refer to political figures by their initials.)

Much harder to reconcile than the question of MAMZ's initials are the reasons why the financial and biographical details that MAMZ has offered us about himself and his family simply do not add up....

http://francislholland.b...sas-family-business.html

July 18, 2007
Markos Moulitsas' "Family Business" Pollutes Unique Salvadoran Estuary, Theatens Wildlife

In April of this year, Markos Alberto Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA told La Prensa Gráfica, "I don’t have money. I don’t come from a famous or powerful family." Recently we have learned that none of this is true. In fact, contrary to what Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA has said, his family in El Salvador is wealthy and important enough to be one of the biggest environmental polluters of the Jaltepeque Estuary, where the family owns and operates a multi-million dollar hotel and subdividision conglomerate that is polluting a precious ecosystem.

...

http://francislholland.b...to-attend-yearlykos.html

Francis L. Holland to Attend YearlyKos, Lead "Truth About Kos" Panel Discussion

...In a carefully negotiated deal worked out through intermediaries, Francis L. Holland and Markos Alberto Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA have agreed to end their public acrimony and work together for the good of the Democratic Party. Without admitting guilt, Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA has agreed to do the following:

1) Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA will sever any and all contacts with the Central Intelligence Agency

http://francislholland.b...iary-of-weekend-stu.html

July 16, 2007
Why Black People Don't Get Markos Alberto Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA (M.A.M.Z.) of DailyKos

The reason I offered the two links in that diary to Markos Alberto Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA's (M.A.M.Z.'s) articles and quotes attacking Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama is to show that Markos Alberto Moulitsas ZÚÑIGA (M.A.M.Z) is making a living ...

Also a vested interest: David Allen, owner of DemocraticUnderground.com, who's domestic partner is Shelly Muskwa, who (along with her sister) has been one of Hillary Clinton's key people. Google Muskwa - she's been the finance director for Hillary's powerful fundraising arem, HILLPAC, which also servers to "help" incoming members of congress to pay off their campaign debts/become encumbered. The domestic partnership is found in campaign finance records.

Always good to know agendas.

Brad writes: "If he [Kos] can prove that just one vote on a SC touch-screen system was recorded as cast on Election Day, dinner, a retraction and a full apology are on me. But he can't. It's literally impossible."

And: "While it may or may not be true that Clinton won, Kos cannot prove it at this time."

And: "No evidence exists that 'Barack won South Carolina'. None."

While Brad is free to put the burden of proof for the reported election results on Kos if he wants to, a legal challenge to the official "certified statement of vote" of an election places the burden of proof on the one who is challenging the result, the plaintiff. As much as one may not like it, the final "certified" tally is presumed to be correct unless successfully "rebutted" in a court of law (that is, the official Statement of Vote is a "rebuttable presumption"). (Election night results are called the "Semi-official Canvas" with the final "certified" count coming after all absentee ballots, provisional ballots, spoiled ballots, etc. are accounted for.) History shows it takes a lot to convince a judge that an election should be ruled "invalid."

This is well known in the legal community. For example, the election lawyer (Willis)representing the newly elected major of Vallejo, CA, (Osby Davis) whose election is being contested by the "losing" candidate (Gary Cloutier) understands this and correctly states the legal situation: "the burden of proof lies with Cloutier to prove recount problems." "Let's be very clear that as of today, the presumption now is that the election was properly handled, that this is the final result," Willis said. "Going forward ... Mr. Cloutier (would have) to prove his case with strong evidence and not simply make allegations that can't stand in court." (Vallejo Times-Hearld 12-12-2007).

If someone has a good case, they should take it to court.

Markos Moulitsas is an example of a good idea gone Establishment. It's impossible to move up into the ranks of Establishment without being coerced, corrupted or cut off from reality. It goes with the territory. The perception of being accepted into the fold of the elite is a heady thing and cuts off oxygen to the brain. From there on in one's programmed and equipped with a life-line into a one-brain thing. LostKos, indeed!

Yeah, sure Kos... "Irrational Clinton Hatred" is the reason a REPUBLICAN candidate in the NH primary also paid to have the REPUBLICAN side of the NH primary recounted.

Proudly personally banned from DKos by Kos himself 2 nights after election night 2004 for calling Kos himself "a faith-based voter" on a thread there.

I've read the Francis Holland researched stuff mentioned above. Holland has something there. It's a little rough, and a related with a little too much personal emotion involved at times, but he's found something.

Can someone provide a link (e.g., to a BradBlog article) that fully describes the insufficiency of a "paper trail" as compared to a paper ballot?

IIRC, a paper trail can give the false appearance that the electronic count is accurate even when it provides totals inconsistent with the actual vote.

TIA.

{ED NOTE: See the bullet-point list at the bottom of this post for a quick explanation of "what's wrong with 'paper trails'" --- BF}

What we need is a comparison of voting machines, hand counted, and other open source tabulation devices set up in a large venue of people, perhaps a colloseum event, to see how the votes tally.
I think a new thread should be started to examine if this could be funded.
By the way some great stuff above.

This thread is the REAL AMERICANS, or apparently what's left of us.

All you countries out there wanna know what being American is, these people drudge through pure hell to bring up the truth.

It pisses me off that the dude from DKOS is a Central American affiliate, cause in case of a nuke attack I was going to head south. But not now. Not knowing this. I ain't running into a bunch of CIA misfits while the world comes to an end. I'll take my dose of plutonium, and and raise hell with the establishment instead.

I know how the jungle is.

If I could fly PAST C.A. then all would be good.

By the way, if he really is CA affiliated, I hope his stomach has hella sickness. I know that shit fucked me up back in the 70's and I was just a little kid..

I think it's time to stand our ground.
Be it what it is.
We have to flush these treasonous bastards out of our land. We have to use whatever tactics we can. We have to restore the constitution.

And THEY HAVE TO LEAVE

One good thing to remember. White people don't live too fucking long in Central America. The Jungle can kill them, the people can, the water can, the mosquitoes can. Mostly they just wear out.

That country is too beautiful to be destroyed and controlled by CIA.

Maybe the Samoans can do it?

I got the red eye tonight. I took bad advise saying I should run "Sacxtra! TV" transitions in between every song.

I tried... But...
Nope.. Wrong.

I make my show the way I do.
Don't need no help, make your own show.

HEY, make your own show!

Now there's a thought.

Maybe you need help with public access and making your own show?

I might be able to help.

Lets make DKOS irrelevant. It already was irrelevant to me personally but hey I don't know what the fuck your doing?

Sure ain't IRC, cause I been there and done that. and hell of have a LOT of people pissed off at me right now. They might give me some respect, cause I might give up some code or some ideas, but they don't like me anymore. Is it cause I am from America? Or is it because I am the weird motherfucker out there that actually says it like it is! I can feel my chest tightening while I type this.

Fuck DKOS, I'll drudge on and on...
IRC style if BB allows it.
He's full of shit and knows it.
Hit my fuckin IP. I am IRC capable. 6667
and the moment you try to screw my server I will screw your CIDR. (that the sysop talkin in me) heh heh

Eiyther people are too stupid to know what IRC is or they're too scared.

I'll tell you what it is. It's a protocol, different than html, in that it's REAL TIME (Lag of your shit connection only) and you can hell of help people because of that speed.

I always helped people.

ALWAYS

unless I was drunk.... honestly.....

And they would know and NOT BE CONFUSED by this.

can you tell I am drunk right now?

I got two ports open.

Hopefully my security is better than the kiddys.

I tried.

port 80 and port 6667

I will die with those ports.

It's a 999% security thing. To deal with it. I want to do 3D but instead I have to patch X, I want to do compositing, but instead I have to develop a strategy against X.

I want to post information about BAND X but instead I have to deal with some crap that's screwing with the version of the server I am running.

I want to play guitar, but instead I have to fight.

Go to bed, Phil....

It matters not what my Network Layout is. Things are all separated. Got to keep them separated. I love debian and that's what my server shit runs on, it probably should be on a FBSD box. I had much less trouble with that. Random packets and all.. But Hey Maybe I am watching YOU and your not watching ME?

Most of these high profile fucking people are retards. They could even deal with a fucking myspace password let alone security of an actual box.

heh heh heh Treating BB like a Chat channel. I bet most are scared to do that.

I'll "go to bed" (your words)

basically that means I got nothing to do while shit renders.

But I still love you 99..

Your heart is good.

Peoples Hearts need to be made good.

Spook.

There are a small handful of people that are allowed on network television that I feel I can trust and Marcos sure ain't one of them. I like Stephanie Miller, Paul Krugman, Sam Seder, and Rachel Maddow.

Can't think of any others. Other then Maddow, the others are rarely seen. Sad indeed!

I outed kos on this in John's Jan. 28 Daily Voting News thread:

The clueless kos thinks that voting machines cannot fail. If there are discrepancies between or among polls, exit polls, and the reported results, then it must axiomatically be fraud he surmises.

I wonder if he gets out much?

He argues that the polls were off in Carolina, therefore, there must have been fraud. Kos, get a grip dude, it could also be malfunction.

But without a paper trail we just don't know. So what you present as knowledge is actually the unknown. Is there also a monster under your bed? Get real dude, knowledge is based on the known, not the unknown.

And "there are many here among us who think that" elections should be based upon the known, not the unknown mixed in with the election religion of faith no matter what. Get it yet?

(Dredd Sedd). So, are those who call themselves progressives (kos) required to tell us whether the want backward "progress" on Election Integrity, as kos does, or instead forward Election Integrity as Bradblog does?

Markos like many new progressive media celebrities (Randi Rhodes ahem) have quickly slipped into apologist roles. It's like the episode of Seinfeld with Tobie (really really great!). "It's like working with a contestant from the Price Is Right."

Let's face it... we're looking at the new and improved face of the same old DNC. Yay Democrats!

Firedoglake won't put up an article about election fraud just endless rants about the RESULTS of election fraud. Crooksandliars actually put up disinformation about a week ago. Instead of apologizing , John Amato got mad. We are all grown up here. We know this is the way our govt. overthrows other govts. Work from the inside.

I also expect a kos advisory to be released soon that tells us "malfunctions do not ever change the vote so keep the faith baby".

When are diebold and kos going to merge legally in public, now that they have privately merged ideologically?

"Progress" is a word that can fairly be associated with "progressive".

But without identifying the goal or destination a "progressive" seeks, the use of the word "progress" is meaningless. (The preznit blush, after all, uses the word "progress" in Katrina and Iraq spins that I would call anything but progress.)

The goal of the election integrity movement is the ability to verify election results with science instead of with faith. To actually know what took place, instead of having faith in it.

Not having an adult chain of custody, not having exit poll and announced result agreement, not having a paper ballot for each voter, etc., are the goals of what kind of election officialdom?

A Stalinist one to be sure.

Because Stalin had the attitude that the voting public decides nothing, instead the ballot handling, machine purchasing, chain of custody challenged, and "trust us" election officials decide everything. Pure Stalinism.

"Progress" defined by the Stalinist ideology goes in one direction, but the Election Integrity movement ideology "progress" goes in an opposite direction.

So a progressive in the Stalinist ideology sees "progress" opposite to what the EI progressive does.

Such a kos is quoted as saying:

This [CIA] is a very liberal institution. And in a lot of ways, it really does attract people who want to make a better, you know, want to make the world a better place…. Of course, they’ve got their Dirty Ops and this and that, right but as an institution itself the CIA is really interested in stable world. That’s what they’re interested in. And stable worlds aren’t created by destabilizing regimes and creating wars…. I don’t think it’s a very partisan thing to want a stable world. And even if you’re protecting American interests, I mean that can get ugly at times, but generally speaking I think their hearts in the right place. As an organization their heart is in the right place. I’ve never had any problem with the CIA. I’d have no problem working for them

(Kosspeak). I think his Amurkan blog is headed by an Amurkan, because if he defines "liberal" as CIA, I think we know how he would and does define "progressive" in terms of election integrity.

Kosistan = Bullshitistan.

CIA waterboarding is not illegal torture, it is liberal stuff by a liberal institution. - kosspeak

Now that Kos works with Rove over at Newsweek, he'll be towing the corporate media line more and more.Can't believe DKos considers itself a "progressive,democratic" blog.Ya,If DKos is misleading about election integrity,what else is it less than honest about?It also seems to have a problem with dissent and diaries that have too many pictures.I don't read DKos.It's like the real world,once you figure out that something just doesn't smell quite right,it's best to avoid it.

It is sad how there are so few places to go on the internet, where one can trust what is written has been done so with sincerity and integrity.

I wonder why a CIA dude like Markos just couldn't stick to making fun of those questioning what happened on 9/11. It is fairly obvious that there is widespread manipulation going on with the internet. Kos is one of the worst. It now makes sense how he is so chummy with the CIA. Who but a plant would present themselves as a progressive, yet consistently cover up election fraud?

Markos is a creep. I don't see how he is that much different than a Hal Turner who recently got busted for being an FBI plant inciting violence. Cointelpro anyone? My point is, even if both have presented themselves as polar opposites, if they are both part of an insidious script to obfuscate and distort social reality, how are they that much different?

But oh no, I must just be a naive schizophrenic living in a basement believing everything I read.

I have come up with my own way of looking at this. Independent, rational thought is just not wanted in this corrupt world, especially on the internet, where each of us just needs a keyboard and a connection to participate. A script calls for there to be closed-minded debunkers and crazy believers. Everything is turned into an enigma. People get suckered by gatekeepers like Huffington, DailyKos, DemocraticUnderground, WhatReallyHappened, etc..

Of all the websites I have read, this is one of the few which seems to be on the up and up. Thanks BradBlog.

Is kos an elf?

We attempted to contact Markos privately via email before posting this article, in hopes of explaining to him what he doesn't seem to understand, or just doesn't care to, in lieu of this rather ugly public kerfuffle. He has yet to bother to reply to that inquiry.

Or, he knows exactly what he's doing and he's doing it on purpose. If he is or was in the CIA, I don't think any part of his behavior is accidental. Would they groom someone with reckless analytical skills, who could become a liability?

- Tom

I quit reading Kos years ago when he cheerfully claimed that a USAF plane or Army helicopter (forget which) was justified in firing a missile that murdered a bunch of civilians (including children) milling around a disabled Army vehicle in Iraq because "they had to protect the codes" in the onboard computer of the vehicle.

Screw him. He's a thug.

A lot of this goes on over at DU, too. I don't think they are, as yet, deleting posts, but they'll drill you a new one if you mention voting problems.

This seems to have something to do with Bev Harris threatening to sue Skinner. No mention as to why, only that she would have the audacity to so threaten the Rex Mundi.

One poster actually said they thought all this about vote fraud was a side issue to distract from the real problems. A side issue? Do these people think? Honestly, some of these leftists are as bad as the neo-cons. Follow the leader.

Kos and its readers are apparatchiks now. They are not progressives, have been co-opted by getting too close to the sources they want to write about, and aren't worth reading.

They ARE worth making fun of, however.

Brad...

...Please continue to reach out.

...The dKos Frontpagers and Markos himself are reasonable people.

...Lets face it. With Clint Curtis and Bev Harris as the most visible face of Election Integrity over the past few years it is no wonder that some might not wish to be associated quite so closely with the opinions and impressions these and others give. Frankly they often sound like kooks, REGARDLESS of the validity of their claims.

...You, RFK, JR., Bob Koehler, and Mark Crispin Miller are well informed and eminently believeable but you are just now rising to the top of the crop of Election Integrity voices.

...Even Lou Dobbs is right on this one.

...Markos has built a phenomenal Media alternative to the Corporate Media that is filled with crap 24/7. He is right to be wary of opening his enterprise to charges of becoming a lunatic's haven. God knows one can not even mention WTC 7 in any capacity on dKOs and remain a member.

...But the man is young. He will learn that sometimes a fox in the hen house ...really IS eating the hens.

...We have seen so much that we consider rock solid evidence since 2000, 2002,, 2004, 2005, and 2006 and now in 2007, but they chose to believe the horse looking beast is really a zebra with tortured analysis of polling data, last minute demographic shifts, and anythng BUT fraud.

...dKos can not seem to separate the issues of what might have or might not have occurred vis-a-vis the vote count over so many cheesy, slippery, elections.

...John Kerry did us no favors by passing on the comic sham of a recount of Ohio.

...Dennis Kucinich has (evidently) decided not to continue the actual counting of ballots in New Hampshire. Either of which would have exposed that there was or wasn't fraud once and for all.

...The frustration you feel is shared by us all. WHY CAN'T THEY SEE?

...But they don't.

...So, slowly and in a calm manner keep reaching out. Ask Robert Kennedy to do the same, and Bob Fitrakis, and Harvey Weinstein, and others to do the same.

...Because once they DO GET IT, they will be a tremendous help.

...But it is an uphill battle for sure.

...God Speed Brad Freeman.

wow some of these comments are really silly. And uninformed. I love this site. I think Brad is a true hero. And I also think Dkos is a very important site (not Markos but the site... people dont seem to see a difference) . Its traffic is declining? Thats way off base. Its growing. (record traffic all through the primary... beating the 04 election #'s)

To be clear, I dont like the posts Kos himself makes. But it is a community blog. hundreds of thousand of people write there. to trash an entire community because of 1 person is silly. Kos as a plant? Kos the same as Rove? I cant even take you people seriously. I think Kos's stance on EI is way off base, but he is one man with an opinion. he is not everything to everyone. he is faaaar from perfect. but to trash an entire community ... I mean lets get a little perspective. I wonder if Brad and folks here even visit Dkos with any regularity. Brads declaration that Dkos is a pro-Hillary web page (LMAO!! obviously clueless on that point Edwards gets the VAST majority of support on Dkos) leads me to believe he does not visit much.

Jordan #55

You got dis ease or you got facts? Wha???

Refer to a post by number, and point out where that post "trashes an entire community" please. Drunk posters do not count.

The trash pointed out here from what I read is not trashing a community, it is trashing a propagandist. And as Donovan said "Quite rightly".

Your post is 55 ... if there is one that does the whole HOGG and leaves out the pig, so what, you majoring in the minors or what dude?

Well, allright then! He's simply outing himself as a Democratic operative who doesn't give a shit about every citizen's vote counting.

Blue Shark #54

Keep to the subject. You slide in a slicky phrase that the good folksy kos sees "anythng BUT fraud" in electioneering. We don't care.

The current state of affairs HERE is that when close to 80% of the ballots in NH have not been counted, it is not proper to say the election was fine, or that the machines malfunctioned, or that there was fraud. All this is pure bullshit based on rank mickey mouse MSM type speculation.

That is because nothing is known. That is why Bradblog has not said that. Bradblog has said we, like everyone else, do not know.

Same with Carolina and anywhere else we don't know. And that is a colossal shame!!!! American elections must be based on the known, not on what faith we have in electioneering, and thus all we have is shame instead of knowledge.

When one does not know, and instead relies on personal bias, here we tend to call this the election religion based on faith (perhaps "faith" is really just another word for "holy bias").

Dig it.

Other than that I respect you on your fairly decent apologetics for all things kos.

You can extrapolate, from Markos' stance, that he would be "ok" if a Democrat won a questionable election...because a Democrat won!

Markos gets on the corporate-controlled mainstream media shows, because he's "their progressive"! What they want you to think a progressive is!

After reading the article by Kos I am troubled by the almost trance-like devotion he and his followers have for the word Progressive. It's almost like a 'Progressive Cult'...very odd.

FYI,

Common Dreams also bans people and then later on they send the banned person e-mails asking for a donation! That’s what happened to me.

I was banned from Common Dreams last year. I’m not sure why exactly. But I suspect it had to do with my constant comments about our fraudulent election system and e-voting. In addition, I could have been banned because of my constant comments about how useless and worthless the bush-enabling Dems are...no change there to this day. I challenged some of the Dem koolaid drinkers who lived under the wishful-thinking illusion that something was going to change by putting more people in congress with a D behind their name back in 2006 and making the Dems the majority. I knew that the Traitor of the House Pelosi was serious when she said before the 2006 "election" that "impeachment is off the table." The Dem koolaid drinkers said she was just saying that but she didn't mean it. (The suckers). I told the Dem koolaid drinkers that the Dems could have every seat in the House and Senate and head every committee and have loads of meeting rooms and veto power and you name it and NOTHING would change. I also challenged the Dem apologists who---some 6 months ago---kept mindlessly chanting, "you have to give the Dems tiiiiiiiiiime." Ugh. (The suckers). As we see things have only gotten worse since the Dems became the majority! And some of those who were living in denial---and thought the Dems were going to be their "lord and saviour"---have come out of their denial since, which is refreshing and a positive thing to see. I'm no longer hearing the "you have to give them tiiiiiiiiiime" nonsense. But of course way back when Erma didn’t know what she was talking about they said. Uh huh. And on Common Dreams, I also wrote about taking to the streets by the millions in every city and town across this nation and in the District of Columbia. That too could have gotten me banned (the taking to the streets part).

Anyway, that’s what I mainly wrote about on CD and was banned.

Not long ago, I Googled “banned from Common Dreams” and up came posts written by someone else who too had been banned by CD. He was supposedly banned for his rather tame comments on an article about--—of all things---freedom of speech. He wrote that all of his previous posts from other threads on CD were also deleted around the same time. Interesting. Not surprising though.

As for DailyKos, I’ve never been on the site and have no intention of going. Regardless of his reputation, I wouldn’t give him the time of day. No one is likely to change his mind, particularly about e-voting. I can’t stand Dem koolaid drinkers.

I have a new prediction:

Neither bush-enabler corporate whore pro-war Queen Hillary of the Borg Collective or Obama will make a damn bit of difference should either one of these pieces of corporate trash be allowed to reside in the White House. That is, should bush/cheney leave in 2009, and I’ll believe that when I see it.

I had the misfortune of glancing at that nasty-looking snarling cheney the other night flipping channels during the state lies of the dis-union and frankly cheney didn’t look to me like he had any intention whatsoever of going anywhere in a year.

Even if they do leave, they’re not leaving. They (these neocons) will just reshuffle the deck.

Blue Shark # 54 You said: "Because once they DO GET IT, they will be a tremendous help."
Marcos has had almost four years to GET IT. He would not allow discussion of election fraud back in 2004. Brad spoke with him in person and he still refused to allow posts on it. He does not want to for "whatever" reason.(Kind of makes me think of him as a kook for that stand) Brad has always being at the top of the crop of Election Integrity voices (here was probably where you learned about Clint Curtis.) but could have been even more so with support from Marcos.

Curious as to why you would classify Clint Curtis as a "kook"? He was/is a whistle blower who is trying to save your democracy!

While I have a difference of opinion with Brad and Bev about election integrity issues, I am deeply grateful they have informed us of the background of Kos. I have read much of the material linked by Bev, and listened to his 2006 "Commonwealth Club" interview and I find it deeply disturbing.

Especially this: He says that in 2001 " ...I applied to the CIA and I went all the way to the end, I mean, it was to the point where I was going to sign papers to become Clandestine Services. And it was at that point that the Howard Dean campaign took off and I had to make a decision whether I was going to kind of join the Dean campaign, that whole process, or I was going to become a spy."

Well, Kos started his blog in May of 2002. The Howard Dean campaign took off in 2003. He joined the Dean campaign in June of 2003. Did Kos still have a relationship with CIA through 2003, when he had already started his blog?

From his remarks some people assume he ended his relationship with CIA after six months because he says in the "Commonwealth Club" interview, "you go through this whole, like, six month process, really in depth." But he doesn't say that his relationship with CIA ended after six months. In fact, he doesn't say if he made a decision to leave CIA behind at all. He simply says, "And it was going to be a tough decision at first, but then the CIA insisted that if I join that they’d want me to do the first duty assignment in Washington, DC and I hate Washington, DC. That was six years in Washington, DC before they’d post me overseas, I was like, yeah! That made the decision a lot easier." But he doesn't say what his decision was. "I had to make a decision whether I was going to kind of join the Dean campaign, that whole process, or I was going to become a spy." Is it possible that he did both?

Thanks, Brad, for exposing Markos. He's defending the same tactics Bush used in 2000 and 2004 which I'm sure he thought were abhorrent and illegal. What a phoney.

The loss of accurately counted elections in USA has been the ONE issue that lead to the loss of our consitution and our civil rights.

Any person who is unwilling to expose the truth about how our elections are conducted is a traitor.

Just removed dailykos from my favs and won't be back.
Just added BradBlog

Keep it real Brad.

The voting machines are CIA and DailyKOS is CIA.

Makes sense to me.