I'm REALLY FUCKING SICK OF THIS SHIT.

Where do you people come up with this conspiracy BS, if you think that living in the US is so bad move to Canada. Jennings lost deal with it, I suppose according to your conspiracy theory all the democrats that won did so illegially and the results were rigged correct. Kool-Aid anyone?????

Saratoga is the flashpoint for our fight for DEMOCRACY and FREEDOM, not Iraq or Afghanastan or Iran.

If we can allow 15% of the votes to simply DISAPPEAR, and idiots like ALANS to think it means nothing, and the media to forget about it, then we have lost what America stands for.

I really hope that some day ALANS has to deal with the results of what he would have America become. But, he will probably find some way to blame "damn librals" for it when the boot is on his neck, and this is the saddest thing about whatching a once-great and proud country sink towards dictatorship and vile hatered.

CharlieL
Portland, OR
CLL2001@gmail.com

P.S. ALANS, if one football team cheats in one game, does that mean all sports are rigged? Just checking your idiotic line of thinking.

We will most likely never know the truth about the Jennings undervote which was so severe that even ES&S admitted that there must have problems with the voting process. Without a paper trail on touchscreen machines the correct recording of our votes can not be assured. So Alan when you talk about conspiracy you might want to think twice. Florida and Ohio have been important swing states in 2000 and 2004 respectively. In both of those states the voting process was controlled by corrupt Republican Secretaries of State; who could forget Kathryn Harris and Kenneth Blackwell. Both states used easily hacked Diebold machines and both states had serious anomalies in voting patterns. You might yet find yourself on the other side of this fence if the 2008 election puts the Republicans into a further minority. Would you be claiming conspiracy if the tables were turned and it was a Republican who lost because of a massive undervote? The Senate Republicans have recently rediscovered the value of the minority right to filibuster something they were trying to destroy not so long ago. We are trying to protect everyones vote even Republicans.

Every day I am more, not less, convinced this race was fixed. Never surrender, never retreat, keep fighting.

Unlike you others I actually live in FL-13. I voted on those machines. The machine was set up so that you had to vote for all the candidates and ballot initiatives once. At the end the machine went back over your votes, page by page. When all the pages were pressed as OK by the voter, a red light flashed and you had to press it to actually vote. So it took three separate steps to place your vote. Plenty of verification.

Now for you people who think this was a stolen race. The Sarasota Election commisioner is a DEMOCRAT, so of course we immediately have to go to the state level for blame.

In 2000 Sarasota County had an undervote of 26000!!!! And in 2002 and 2004 there was an undervote in 5 figures both times. This is par for this area.

Sarasota is also a heavily Republican area. The Republican primary was especially nasty by the two front runners. It is very sensible that a lot of Republicans refused to vote for Buchanan but would never vote for a Democratic.

PS- I see that a previous poster mentioned 2000, Harris & Diebold. She also whined about touch screens when I am positive a few years ago she whined about those pesky paper ballots in Palm Beach. I am a former NY'er and now because of all this conspiracy crap I am also a former Dem, preferring to be an independent.

My theory is that Bush gets his policy advice from Elvis on the Mothership. My former Democrat traits are hard to break.

Christine Jennings is still unafraid to be called a "sore looser" and continues to stand for the only thing that can bring this country back from the cliff!

Thank you for being one of the only people in America willing to help us in this annoying shell game!

kingronjo:

Why don't you just get it over with and become a former American. We like honest elections here and don't think 26000 undervotes is something to blow off!

Because liberals can't accept the facts I guess you'll have to live with your conspiracy theories. By the way Larry L. republicans aren't socialist that is a democratic trait. Hanging chads, rigged voting machines no paper trails no matter what election system we have you'll come up with a conspiracy theory why a democrat lost. Last point if republicans can so easily rig these machines why did Democrats take control of Congress?

AlanS (foolishly) said:

Where do you people come up with this conspiracy BS, if you think that living in the US is so bad move to Canada. Jennings lost deal with it, I suppose according to your conspiracy theory all the democrats that won did so illegially and the results were rigged correct. Kool-Aid anyone?????

"Conspiracy BS"? Where's the "conspiracy" in Jennings statement? Or in the original article on the reports from FL-13? The only "conspiracy" here is your suggestion that either of the parties to the lawsuits challenging the clearly flawed election (even by the voting machines company's only expert witness placed on the stand in the case) are alleging a "conspiracy".

Lyndoc said:

Without a paper trail on touchscreen machines the correct recording of our votes can not be assured

Hate to disagree with you, Lyndoc. Since you're actually one of the good guys (who still loves democracy, as opposed to a couple of these other American-value hating commenters), but "paper trails" on the touchscreens in FL-13 wouldn't have done a thing. Other than keep anyone from being able to challenge the election in court or Congress.

If 18,000 voters were unable to change their undervote when they saw it on the screen in front of their face, it's unlikely they'd have noticed it or changed it on the paper trail. That's why you need a hand-marked paper ballot marked by a human being.

Kingrojo (foolishly) said:

In 2000 Sarasota County had an undervote of 26000!!!! And in 2002 and 2004 there was an undervote in 5 figures both times. This is par for this area.

Apples and oranges, chief. Compare the *percentages* for undervotes. Not the NUMBERS. You're comparing Presidential Election years to Mid-Term Elections. If you didn't know it, now you do. If you did, then you're simply being specious, partisan, and displaying your hatred of democracy.

Beyond that, since Sarasota folks were so unhappy with the two candidates, what's your explanation for paper ballot mail in voters only having a 2.8% undervote rate compared to 15% for folks using the touch-screen?

We await your brilliant insights. Also let us know why the undervotes in all the other counties (which are *more* Republican leaning) also had a normal undervote rate and not 15%.

And then AlanS came back for a second helping with:

Because liberals can't accept the facts I guess you'll have to live with your conspiracy theories.

Again, where are the "conspiracy theories" being offered by any of the parties to the lawsuit/challenge? Is your case so weak you have to make shit up? (Apparently the answer is yes).

Too bad neither AlanS or KingRonJo bother to stop by and making comments when it's a Conservative Republican from Texas who is challenging an election for the very same reasons (like 100,000 extra votes being added in Tarrant County, TX or receive 0 votes in Winkler County, TX) Go figure.

Ouch. Scorching. You guys still here? Or did you take your ball and go home? Brad just rolled you guys up and smoked you into oblivion. Did you hear him? MAILED IN BALLOTS ONLY HAD A 2.8% UNDERVOTE. Please explain how the machines achieved a 15% undervote, and why that isn't a concern, smart guys.

RECOUNTING BALLOTS IN DISPUTES
HI,

THANKS FOR YOUR CLEARLY WRITTEN ARTICLE. I
HAVE SOME IDEAS ABOUT HOW VOTING SHOULD BE
DONE THAT I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT FOR
SOME TIME AND WOULD LIKE TO SHARE WITH YOU.

1. THERE SHOULD BE A CLEAR LARGE TYPE PAPER
BALLOT MARKED BY THE VOTER. IT SHOULD BE AVAILABLE IN NEWS PAPERS AND THE INTERNET BEFORE HAND SO THE VOTERS CAN STUDY IT.
IT COULD ALSO BE AVAILABLE IN LIBRARIES AND
SCHOOLS AND OTHER PUBLIC BUILDINGS AND
OFFICES.

2. THE ORIGINAL BALLOTS SHOULD BE KEPT ON
FILE IN A SAFE PLACE FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS,
MAYBE TEN.

3. ALL VOTES SHOULD BE HAND COUNTED IN
PUBLIC IN THE PERCENTS BEFORE SHIPMENT ANY
WERE ELSE BY THREE SEPARATE GROUPS; PARTISANS, NONPARTISANS AND OFFICIAL
COUNTERS. FORM OPENING OF POLLS UNTIL COUNT COMPLETION THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO OBSERVE EVERY THING. THE WHOLE PROCESS SHOULD BE VIDEO TAPED AND BROADCAST LIVE.

4. THE VOTER SHOULD PUT THE BALLOT THROUGH
AN OPTICAL SCANNER, FOR COUNTING RECHECK
PURPOSES ONLY, AND TO MAKE A COPY THAT THE
VOTER CAN KEEP OR SHRED.

5. THE VOTERS SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE WHEN
VOTING TO BE ABLE TO MARK THEIR BALLOT WITH
A RANDOM NUMBER PRINTED ON THE BALLOT BEFORE IT IS SCAND.
IN A DISPUTE THE VOTERS WHO KEEP SUCH A
BALLOT COULD BE ASKED, ON A VOLUNTEER BASES,
TO LET THEIR BALLOT BE CHECKED AGAINST THE
ORIGINAL RETAINED BALLOTS. I AM NOT SURE
THIS IS A GOOD IDEA BUT I THINK IT SHOULD BE
CHECKED OUT.

I WOULD APPRECIATE IF YOU COULD LET ME NOW
WHAT YOU THINK OF THIS. IF IT IS ANY GOOD, IF
ONLY IN PART?

THANKS AGAIN FOR YOUR IMPORTANT ARTICLE AND
YOU PATIENTS.

ALL THE BEST
JIMMYFBX@AOL.COM

Report after report shows nothing was wrong with the voting machines. Even the Democratic Party of Florida has given up on this race because of the facts. Brad and the people who say we were smoked by his comments just make me laugh and feel sorry for you. Someday reality will hopefully be a concept you can grasp.

I'm sorry, did you address the question of differences in percentage of undervote in machines and mailed in ballots? I must have missed you explaining this reality to me. Do you even understand what an undervote is?