Typical republican and/or shifty criminal behavior.. "Did you sign the contract".. "no".. Well, it was signed.. that was the Secratary.. Oh.. so you know we're getting these machines.. no, I don't know that (despite the contracts having been signed, and his KNOWING they were signed, he JUST SAID it was the SoS who signed it, admitting he knew they were signed and the machines were inbound).. we've seen the contracts .. "you just said I signed them".. And there's the spin.. no, no one said "he signed them", he was ASKED and he said NO.. fine.. then admited to KNOWING ABOUT THEM.. but then tried to twist it.. got PISSED because he ERRANTLY thought he was being accused of signing contracts for these machines and he was being "technical" in that he didn't sign them, but I get the impression it's irrelavant and beurocratic. His getting pissed was his confusion about his trying to be "sneaky" and "technically not having signed them [yet]".

The whole of the agression is because this shit KNOWS these machines are BAD, but needs them to rig the election. People like that care not a wit about doing the "right thing" or even their JOBS.. They care about their power and get abusive to EVERYTHING when they percieve that power to be in jeapordy.

Greedy selfish petty pathetic little people. That's what they are.

Let this be a lesson folks: people like this will take ANY tiny mis-statement (I'm assuming here that the lunatic on video didn't sign it, but sure knew about it) and "blow up" over that detail, distracting everybody present from the real issue.

More distraction: the "kissing a girl" line.

Smoke'n'mirrors.

Who cares whether or not he signed the contract? The reality is, he's now in a position to use "worst case scenario" voting gear for part of his elections, probably a big enough part to allow enough vote shifting to throw a close race.

Jim March

You ever met a self important prick before ?
There one is

http://www.xopl.com/blog.../25/ohiovotingfraud.html
In the 2004 presidential election, an electronic voting machine (manufacturer: ES&S) in Youngstown, Ohio (Mahoning County) recorded NEGATIVE 25 MILLION votes for Kerry. Sources: MSNBC, House.GOV PDF (Google HTML version), and any Google search for "voting machine in Mahoning County recorded a negative 25 million votes for Kerry".

You are right it was “Smoke 'n 'mirrors” Brad Nelson served on the Secretary of State Help America Vote ACT committee and tried to play a game in LD 26.

A friend who knows wrote me;
Date: Fri, 3 Feb 2006 15:13:21 -0700
Subject: Diebold TSx in Pima Co

I talked with Pima County election director Brad Nelson this morning.
The Bad News:
“Pima Co is moving forward with the purchase of Diebold TSX machines under the accessibility contract. He just met with Diebold and SoS personnel and they are in the process of putting together the list of equipment. This will go back and forth a few times, but Brad expects the deal to complete by Feb 20. I asked if they discussed the fact that the TSx certification is in limbo as a result of the California actions. He said no. I suppose they are working from the position that the equipment is already certified in the state, so that's good enough.”

“We talked a bit about the problems with the hybrid system and with recounting. Brad is concerned about both. Until such time as Diebold finalizes their transfer card, the plan is to not use modems, but instead take the machines back to central count, remove the cards and upload. He's very worried about what will happen in recounts with the so-called paper records from these machines. But he's not worried enough to put up a stink, saying that the SoS is the chief HAVA compliance official…”

Why am I prevented from posting a link to a 25 million vote discrepancy in ohio?

With these issues of certification, hackability, etc, and even lawsuits, how will it be possible to hold elections in November? Does anyone believe that the lawsuits will be settled by then, and acceptable machines installed?

:angry:Please take the Diebold Machines out of circulation until they are certified

Barry #6

If you tried to use the URL as the text of your link it may have been too many characters. In the past this would stretch the width of the column. Maybe Brad now has a mechanism to prevent that. If you saw an error message from grey matter that would be the case. Paragraphs of text work since it can be broken up into several lines, but URLs can't be broken.

I have made the following link to your site in question.

Barry's Link

unirealist #7

It sure is an interesting question isn't it!

These old political farts must be reading from the same Carl Rove list of "Ways to Avoid Accountability".
Local yokel politicians are not so much full of themselves, instead they're scared the voters will find out how they sold them out & all their neighbors who think they're honest now, will hate them & won't vote for them anymore. Their rep is at stake.
I know because when I stood up to an old fart that was representing our county's new ES&S with AccuMark in front of a group of election judges--he shouted at me in an effort to shut me up by intimidation too.
I asked him if he could prove to us here & now, that this machine could not be hacked, since he claimed it was "entirely secure" in his opening speech.
Suddenly, he lurched forward & pointed his finger at me with his arm stretched out & hollered "You're rude!" "You're rude!".
I said vote fraud was pretty rude too & that I had EVERY right & even the duty as a judge, to make sure votes are counted correctly & by the way, what education did he have that would enable him to be knowledgeable in making these claims.
He blustered that he was a former county clerk & had been in charge of elections himself. (but didn't say from where)
I said that didn't answer my question.
People were gaping at me & you could have heard a pin drop. I could feel my heart pounding in my chest.
That's when the County clerk interrupted us & said the machines had been certified & tested by the State of Illinois & that my concern could be answered by the State Board of Elections.
I wasn't aware of the GAO report at the time to quote, so I sat down.
Try raising da funk in YOUR county.

Mr Bradey As I said this is what it will take. Don't be intimidated by the "rudeness", capture it all on video, litigate, and work with pollworkers to shut down the election offices.

Nobody should be voting on these kind of machines, and in order to enforce this fact you must make that statement. And capture it on video, the obstruction by election officials. As Black Box Voting always has....

BlackBox.

That's what it will take. Go settle this issue with the man but if not take it to court, and get a restraining order against these machines: Especially if they are proven now to have not been certified.

Doug

People should also be thinking, carefully and mentioning the fact Diebold may be going out of business shortly. Mention it at every meeting you're at, therefore killing the reason for buying Diebold.

Doug E.

"Oh my achy Brakey truth!"

But don't tell the truth, my achy Brakey truth
I just don't think they'd understand
And if you tell the truth, my achy Brakey truth,
Brad Nelson might blow up and kill democracy

Ooo

The O'Reilly/GOP style of answering the public's questions: "SHUT-UP"!!! This comes from thinking that they in fact DO NOT have to answer to the public, since they steal the elections on electronic voting machines. Anyone realize, this behavior is consistent with stealing people's votes???

Didn't Sensenbrenner yell at Democrats and shut their micrphones off during a committee meeting? Someone give me an example of a non-Republican acting like this.

The party of elite, arrogant bastards, who think they don't have to talk to the public. Unless they stack the audience with backers like Bush. This is what happens when they face the public. And you saw what happened when Bush was at Coretta Scott King's funeral. THEY CANNOT TALK TO THE PUBLIC! THEY THINK THEY DON'T HAVE TO!

to number 11.

Shades of shock and awe. And kudos to John Brakey, he kept calm even when the ED was being an A Hole.

We had activists go to as many voting machine demos as possible.

When Diebold had not fled NC, they went to Durham county to demo machines.

We had Duke U computer scientist, Justin Moore there. Justin kept asking the Diebold guy to click on the access button on the machine, and they guy wouldn't do it.

Justin asked him why not. and the diebold guys was very evasive. (If he clicked on the button, it would be clear that anyone could access the vote totals without a password, they just needed to click).

The newspaper described the event as rowdy,
(Not on Justin's part, but some of our activists), and the Election director had to end the discussion to calm things down.

Our people in Chatham county got pretty wild, for a small county with about a 34K turnout in the GE, they had 100 activists at the county commissioners meeting, to object to purchase of DRES. I am told that it nearly came to fist fights, and that one commissioner left the room and couldn't be found.

We have had battles all over the state, we got rid of diebold, but the next fight was to push for optical scan and not the toilet paper ballot DRES.

The bureucrats are not used to the proletariet fighting back!

They are shocked and awed.

Here's the electronic voting machine "paraphrased" code:

READ VOTE.
IF VOTE = GOP
ADD 1 TO GOP-TOT
GO TO READ-NEXT-VOTE
ELSE
IF VOTE NOT = GOP
IF GOP-TOT > 50%
ADD 1 TO CORRECT-VOTE
GO TO READ-NEXT-VOTE
ELSE
ADD 1 TO GOP-TOT
GO TO READ-NEXT-VOTE
END-IF
END-IF

John Brakey won't be intimidated.

Well Joyce we now have a chance to deal with that very issue, for real. Obstructing election officials can be held accountable by us, the rest of Diebold can be taken to court and we can proceed to institute what I like to call "instant run off approval" voting.

Once vote unconstitutionality has been proven in court with these machines, the sky is the limit. We will force the ITA examiners to be under oath in california. I have been spreading it far and wide. Spread the word.

Black Box Voting.

Doug

We need to forget about devoting our energy on a paper trail using voting machines. To start a non-violent revolution and a reformation of our voting process, what we need is a change in the way we vote on Election Day.

I am in Oregon, the first and only state to vote exclusively by mail. It was sad to see people in Ohio getting the shaft by having to stand in the rain and cold waiting up to 9 hours to vote. No doubt this treatment, along with the secrecy behind the vote count, demoralized some Ohio voters to the point where they probably feel that their vote doesn't make a difference.

Oregon had the highest percentage of registered voters to cast ballots. In 2002 we had 81% participation by registered voters. In 2004, it was up to 83%.

My wife and I sat at our table, readied our pens and then cast our votes. We were able to discuss the issues with the information books at hand, and, along with our own convictions about the candidates, make decisions and mark our ballots. Then we placed the ballots in the appropriate envelopes. We could have mailed the ballots, but we opted to drive over to a designated drop box at a County Elections Office. It was one of the easiest things we have ever done.

Imagine if all those Ohio voters did this on Election Day? They would feel empowered because they could take part in our electoral process without taking off work or standing in the rain.

Our Secretary of State had an article published in the Washington Post on January 10, 2005 under the title: "Vote-by-Mail: The Real Winner Is Democracy" (Reposted at my website under the Blog.) Unfortunately, nobody listened and most keep squawking about a paper trail. Sorry, but the time has come to change the process. It does no good to cast a vote at a computer terminal. Mail is the easiest and best method. Any concerns can now be solely focused on the counting instead of also worrying about the casting of the vote. It wouldn't take much to establish bi-partisan or non-partisan counting groups/auditors within each state.

It's not too late for citizens of many states to begin a direct initiative and start collecting signatures in order to get it voted on in the 2006 elections and put into effect for the 2008 elections. The difference in citizen trust, confidence and empowerment will be remarkable!

Paper trail for the electronic voting machines is a misdirected fantasy. Better to vote exclusively by mail.

It's time to start the revolution --- non-violent and from within!

Go to www.electionsbymail.com

Peace!

Paul Revere

We need to forget about devoting our energy on a paper trail using voting machines. To start a non-violent revolution and a reformation of our voting process, what we need is a change in the way we vote on Election Day.

I am in Oregon, the first and only state to vote exclusively by mail. It was sad to see people in Ohio getting the shaft by having to stand in the rain and cold waiting up to 9 hours to vote. No doubt this treatment, along with the secrecy behind the vote count, demoralized some Ohio voters to the point where they probably feel that their vote doesn't make a difference.

Oregon had the highest percentage of registered voters to cast ballots. In 2002 we had 81% participation by registered voters. In 2004, it was up to 83%.

My wife and I sat at our table, readied our pens and then cast our votes. We were able to discuss the issues with the information books at hand, and, along with our own convictions about the candidates, make decisions and mark our ballots. Then we placed the ballots in the appropriate envelopes. We could have mailed the ballots, but we opted to drive over to a designated drop box at a County Elections Office. It was one of the easiest things we have ever done.

Imagine if all those Ohio voters did this on Election Day? They would feel empowered because they could take part in our electoral process without taking off work or standing in the rain.

Our Secretary of State had an article published in the Washington Post on January 10, 2005 under the title: "Vote-by-Mail: The Real Winner Is Democracy" (Reposted at my website under the Blog.) Unfortunately, nobody listened and most keep squawking about a paper trail. Sorry, but the time has come to change the process. It does no good to cast a vote at a computer terminal. Mail is the easiest and best method. Any concerns can now be solely focused on the counting instead of also worrying about the casting of the vote. It wouldn't take much to establish bi-partisan or non-partisan counting groups/auditors within each state.

It's not too late for citizens of many states to begin a direct initiative and start collecting signatures in order to get it voted on in the 2006 elections and put into effect for the 2008 elections. The difference in citizen trust, confidence and empowerment will be remarkable!

Paper trail for the electronic voting machines is a misdirected fantasy. Better to vote exclusively by mail.

It's time to start the revolution --- non-violent and from within!

Go to www.electionsbymail.com

Peace!

Paul Revere

Praise the laaaard Nelson is all in the spirit because "We're voting on faith-based voting systems".

The motto of the republicans is "trust me".

The motto of our movement is "those who trust republican government will end up with a faith-based government".

Vote by mail works if you have honest election officials and SOS.

In a state like Ohio, with a SOS involved in the national presidential campaign, the attempts to disenfranchise the voters will be creative and non stop.

IN Florida, about 70,000 mail in absentee ballots were "lost".

Oregon apparently has an honest head of elections there, but that can change in the wink of an eye.

I have seen the canvassing of absentee ballots in my state, and I can say that I would vote by absentee but hand deliver my ballot, hoping it was safe during the rest of the chain of custody.

That is what I would do before I would vote on a DRE.

My first choice is to vote on election day, and in a perfect world, have it counted by hand that very same day.
In a less than perfect world, but a good one, I will vote on optical scan, and there will be audits, in NC.

#22 Paul Revere

I hate to burst your bubble, but...

How do you think they are counting your paper ballots?

By running them through an optical scan tabulator--open to tampering!

test

Sorry for the test message above... I had a problem posting a comment to the story about the AZ Sec. of State calling us "Anarchists"... Since this is relevant here, and in response to someone who posted in that thread, please see: https://bradblog.com/archives/00002240.htm for context.

Bev, I have to ask... Why are you calling for elections to be boycotted? Gee... That *REALLY* did the job in Iran, didn't it? Wisconsin is a key state the GOP is targeting this year, and you tell people that if they boycott the election that Diebold *MIGHT* release the source code? All I see a Wisconsin boycott doing is electing Republicans - who, by the way, will protect Diebold.

Although I disapprove of those possible moles using your organization's name in their protest, I must say that some of what you say about "credibility" seems strange coming from someone I can easily sue for Libel - but haven't. I was just thinking, that based on the experiences many others have had with you, that you might have pissed someone or a group of people off so much they chose to make you look bad at that protest (and keep in mind, I disapprove of their tactic).

Maybe you'd care to elaborate to the people here why you are permbanned from DU (before you call me names and paint yourself as Ms. Congeniality).

You have made many enemies, on both sides, and although I personally support the movement to get verifiable elections, I don't have to like a malicious liar such as yourself.

To those who wish to discredit Bev in the manner she described, please stop, it discredits us all, not just her. If you are one of the many this witch has libelled, take it up with the courts - I'm still tempted.

You know, I didn't have the heart to even show a mutual friend of Brad and mine where you Libelled him too when you did, and that friend, Bev, is a big supporter of your efforts - a BIG supporter.

Anyhow, Bev, I doubt if you can figure out who I am, after all, you have made MANY enemies with your "I don't work and play well with others" modus operandi.

As someone plainly, openly, and irrefutably wrongly Libelled by you, I will say this to the others you have pissed off in the movement: There are better ways of dealing with people like Bev that don't discredit the movement.

And, Bev, please don't be so quick to accuse the GOP of planting people that would like to see you go down. You've pissed off a lot of people on our side too with your Libel, false accusations, name-calling, and other behaviour. So, take off your Tiara, Princess, and quit playing the martyr, I say it's even odds that those "protesters" could have been on our side and not GOP plants - and if they were, even if I think their tactics discredit the movement instead of just you, you brought it down on yourself.

In the meantime, please stop telling people to boycott elections in Wisconsin and elsewhere, what the hell are you trying to do? Just hand the GOP the election on a silver platter? Gawd knows, they are heavily targeting Wisconsin, and are so vulnerable in that state, that they are already predicted to lose bigtime. Saying such things makes you a better tool for the GOP than Diebold. A vote not cast can *NEVER* be counted, dumbass witch.

What the hell is that guy's post above me, talking about???

Does he know this isn't blackboxvoting.org ?

Big Dan, from what it looks like, it's an attempt to dissuade people from listening to Bev anymore. Interestingly, there are no expamples of "who she pissed off", or any examples of "Libeling", etc. etc. Until I see such examples, I'll happily dismiss ANYONE who shows up and starts bashing on someone doing good work. Is it possible he's being honest? sure.. and if he said she molests rabbits, he could be being honest about that too. Entirely too many words with no real message.. I'm suspiscious of such things. Keep in mind, the "trolls" have to step it up a notch now, their precious machines are being PULLED from all over the country, the message is getting out, their gamed game is up

"Paper trail for the electronic voting machines is a misdirected fantasy. Better to vote exclusively by mail."

First, I don't think many would like "paper trails for electronic voting machines" as the "best" solution.. it's a proposal to try and mitigate the cheating, but you STILL have way too many possibilities for massive fraud (that goes undetected). Personally, I'd rather go to full on paper and HAND COUNTING.. get RID of these electronics all together. People need to see the votes counted, watch it and verify no hanky panky.. put the vote counts up on a "big board', and have that data sent to "central" (where ever). Central then needs to put up all the counts they receive.. pass it up, etc.. at the national level, they could have a channel with a scrolling marquee of all the districts and their counts. People could sit and watch and see if what's being told up top matches what they saw, etc. Anyway, I digress.. The point is, Machines are bad, period. Good for cooking food or opening cans, bad for tracking votes and maintaining Democracy.

As for the mail bit... Don't you think they can just dump tons of ballots as they get in, then replace them all with "their guy"? Sure, they lose some votes for "their guy" in the dumping, but they still have a "net gain" in places they think it might be close. And, who's there to make sure the mail wasn't tampered with? That is, where is the chain of custody on your letter/vote? The post office has it? the guys with anthrax moving around their sorter machines, and guys "going postal" and getting blood on stuff? Where packages get lost, credit cards don't arrive, cash disappears, etc? By no means "secure". True, it's better than these electronic voting machines, but it's not the "best" overall answer. Sure, let people vote by mail if they want, but seems a bit crazy to me to "force everyone to vote by mail". Plus, you still have the old "balot box stuffing" issue to worry about with mail in, and it's easy to track who voted and who didint' (return addresses, etc).. just figure out what houses didn't send in balots and make some up..

As for my post, it's intended for two people, really... Brad, who knows I'm legit, and Bev, who Libelled me and others...

If you want a sample of the background on this issue with Bev and her Libelous tirades stabbing everyone in the back, please ask DU why they permbanned her.

When she Libelled Bob Fertik, she blew it with me completely.

DU has the archives.

It was stated in the comments to the story about the Sec of State of AZ calling us all "Anarchists" linked in the story above here, that it is stated that Bev is openly calling for an election boycott in Wisconsin. That is the meaning of the rest of my post here.

Like I said, click for context.

And, before you say anything else, I will state openly that if you have never had dealings with Bev personally, that you aren't even qualified to judge my statement about her.

I can't think of but a handful of people that have ever dealt with her that would disagree with my assessment of her being a backstabbing narcissitic witch.

"As for my post, it's intended for two people, really... Brad, who knows I'm legit, and Bev, who Libelled me and others..."

Then wouldn't it be better to e-mail them instead of trying to "paint a bad picture of Bev"?

Just curious..

No, because in that Sec. of State comments section [linked above] she is openly calling for Wisconsin Democrats to boycott the polls and lose the election by default. That crosses the line, and my chastizing her should be as public as her statements to hand Wisconsin to the GOP on a silver platter, and on the same site.. This site.

Oh, and in case you haven't heard, today's Wisconsin Republicans make the Wisconsin Republicans of McCarthy's day look like Liberals.

I do apologize for posting in this thread. I tried six times to post to the thread I'm referring to, and linked in Brad's story in this thread (about that SoS witch calling us all "Anarchists"), but after six attempts and only getting "CGI Error" and a message saying that the posting process timed out and killed the process, I decided to try in this thread, and it worked first try.

Since the comments I'm referring to are posted to a story linked from this one, this is the next best thing.. I'm not trying to take the Arizona issue off topic by choice.

Well, went to that thread, and NO WHERE does Bev call for a boycott.. I saw your post, 8 times? so now I understand your "test' comment.. but, you seem to have posted the same crap here that you posted on Jan 5..

I guess I still don't get why you are saying she's calling for a boycott when none of her posts in that thread called for it. What post (of hers) are you talking about where she called for a boycott?

Three things.

1. The Electoral College is an anachronism and should be scrapped.

2. What sense does it make to force Americans to vote for such an important leadership post every four years in a single day? How much easier and participatory would it make things if Americans had a whole week to vote during Presidential election years?

3. Lobbying Reform? What the fuck!? Everyone knows that the problem is with CAMPIAGN FINANCE and not general lobbying. Follow the money to find the truth.

Best of luck to you all in the coming civil war. Ciao.

Nice background primer, by no means all-inclusive though:

http://www.democraticund...;address=203×340188

What can I say. After this "Boycott the Vote" crap from her, I'm fed up... Even if I put up with her Libel of me, and kept my silence, even if I put up with her Libel of Bob Fertik, and still kept my silence, I can't tolerate her telling people to hand elections to the GOP on a silver platter.

Oh, and you might also want to search that site for her statements about "working with Freepers" that she claimed was because she was trying to be "bipartisain". Sorry, man, working with *MODERATE* Republicans might be acceptable, but working with the most radical of the ultra-right-wing ones? Strange bedfellows, to say the least, and it was out of her own mouth.

Brad, word of advice. Be very guarded in your dealings with Bev. The moment she feels you might take the spotlight away from her, she will stab you in the back, just like everyone else.

# 21 Paul Revere
# 25 Charlene

Charlene is correct: the optiscans used in Oregon are a huge question mark. I have heard rumblings about "shenanigans" in counting in past Oregon elections, but no one has comprehensively addressed the matter and so I cannot opine about it.

However, it was an optiscan that was hacked into in Leon County, FL in the infamous demonstration where the vote was flipped. The Leon County elections official then rejected the machine for use in his county.

Paul - which county are you in? I live in Clackamas County and two weeks ago I wrote a letter to my Director of Elections asking for the brand name and model number of the optiscans in use, as well as the certification mandates, guidelines, etc.

I also did a public records request for documents related to my questions. I have NOT HEARD ONE WORD. Several days ago I resent the email request and asked FOR THE COURTESY OF AN ACKNOWLEDGEMENT that she had received my request. Still nothing.

It is difficult to not interpret silence/stonewalling as there being something to hide. My next step is to make the request of the County Commissioners and to cc the request to Bill Bradbury, Secretary of State. Oh, I did send a copy of the second request to the Lake Oswego Review - my little home town newspaper. Nothing from it either.

Paul, if you're willing to ask YOUR county elections official the hard questions, please contact me at: sandyduffy@comcast.net and I'll send you the requests I have made of Clackco. Hope you are Multnomah County.

Savantster: I tried posting that today, and got CGI Error timeout messages. Did those actually post? they didn't show up when I hit reload.

I'm referring to a statement made by another poster to Bev about her previous boycott statements. She posts later in the same thread, but didn't deny that she'd called for elections to be handed to the GOP on a silver platter [after all, that's all a Boycott will do]. I've also seen Boycott talk from Bev in other venues directly. I'm addressing it here because it was addressed here.

I'll double-check the other thread.. If this actually posted there, then Brad's board has some technical issues, as all I got was timeout error messages there, repeatedly, from his server.

EnderW, you still haven't explained why you posted a "boycott" post in response to Bev HERE when she never called for a boycott HERE..

Sounds like sour grapes, and isn't constructive. Neither is this dialog, anylonger. Back to topic, shall we? Not letting these psycho right-wingers intimidate us while we're removing their method of gaming the system? HmmmmK?

Ok, at #42 you kind of do, I didn't read "other people's posts".. just verified that Bev never mentioned boycotts in theat thread.. though, there are 2 threads on the subject? I only read one.

Still, none of that is germain to this thread..

Brad, I just double-checked the other thread. Savantster is right, it did eventually post each time there. Please check your server logs on why I was getting the timeout messages each time. Each time took several minutes to time out, and came up with a server CGI Error screen.

I apologize for the repeated posts of the same thing to the other thread. I was under the impression that it wasn't posting from the server messages I was getting redirected to.

In response to #43.

My statements are relevenat regardless on the way Bev uses people.

http://www.democraticund...;address=203×340188

Read it. It's just an overview, but it sets things in perspective, in her own writing.

Like I said, we can support the movement without putting up with Libelous witches, or even liking them. And since she's attempting to use Brad just like she's used everyone else, I have an issue with that, because I'd like to think of Brad as a friend. Given the frequency she and her BevBots are using this site, I have a valid concern.

Ask Mike and Kathy Malloy what they think of her backstabbing. Randi Rhodes too.

WHat in God's name is it going to take to get these crooks exposed on national television. Can we organize a letter-writing campaign to 60 minutes people? I feel very strongly that, as the GOP gets backed further and further into a corner, underhanded tactics such as vote-rigging with be increasingly employed.

Anyone out there listening?

That guy is dancing around the question the entire time. He attempted to intimidate the questioner by raising his voice to an accusation that was never made. The subtext from this guy is just dripping with guilty involvement in election fraud.

I voted in the 2004 election in Arizona - there were several news stories that night of voters being turned away who had been in line before the 7:30 cutoff time. There were also stories on the news of voting precincts that tended to vote democratic having an insufficient number of voting machines per capita than compared to Republican voting precincts that did.

This fraud is occuring at so many levels I can't believe the whole system hasn't been shut down yet.

I feel Nelson simply behaved like a cornered animal.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
**'Expose Tom Feeney'**
"SUPPORT CLINT CURTIS!"
__www.clintcurtis.com__
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::

Well Fletch #48,

If it ain't on the evening news--it didn't happen--as far as most of America is concerned.
And it ain't gonna be on the evening news.

That's why spreading the word about the need for all of us to watch independent news sources is so very important for our country. Besides, it's cool, it's in--to know the REAL skinny. You sit there listening & go, "Oh My God!" a lot.

I'd like to add that a paper trail on these voting machines is not the answer to honest elections either.
That's because, historically, there have been VERY few recounts of elections.
Also, by law, a judge must okay a recount--which leaves it open to politics, & therefore open to a cheat job.
(Don't we know THAT from the Supreme Court decision to STOP the Presidential recount in Florida in 2000!)
Locally, the vote totals must be over 95% to be eligible to be recounted--so if they rig it to be within the percentage limits--there will be no chance for a recount.
Plus, who knows how many paper ballots someone could change, or throw out, whatever, before the recount to change th results.

So, no, a paper trail is not THE answer, but it's better than nothing, which is what we have now, I'll admit.

Savanster, give enderw the test, ask him to talk about the "Democrat Party" for a little bit (he-he)

I watched the video, and although the guy seemed animated, he sure did not appear threatening or awfully confrontational to me. I'm a democrat, so it's not that I'm making excuses, but the person asking the questions seemed more antagonistic than the guy in the video. Now, maybe there was something going on off-camera that I didn't see. But if there wasn't, then I don't know what the hubbub is about, bub.

Typical Arizona trash,

Watched it again, what a pathetic piece of american
shit. So quick to sell their freedom down the drain,
for the sake of "winning" and lining their pockets
with tax payer monies.

He belongs in Tent City.

It seems America has finally done it! We have outsourced our voting! We simply show up to verify our proxy and let Diabold register what ever is necessary to elect the candidates who have paid their dues to the party. If we do not return to paper ballots soon, desenters will soon be assigned to Internment Camps where our psychological problems will be evaluated and proper corrective medication and counseling action will be taken to improve our compliance with the authorities. We may even have to adopt the crooked cross armband. In the words of Edward G. Robinson in one of his movies, "Don't worry about the votes. We will just keep counting them until they come out in out favor. Right?" RIGHT!

It is my understanding that Nelson guy has been helping to fix elections for years. Good news is not all Republicans here are that bad and some actually care about election integrity.

Brakey's group has a new website.
AuditAZ

Arizona Citizens for Election Reform has filed an initiative to require paper ballots and a 5% audit. We need > 122,000 signatures by July 6 to get it on the ballot. If you know Arizonans who are interested in making every vote count in AZ - have them go to www.aceronline.org and check out the petition and help us circulate it.

If you are not in AZ, but would still like to help, we need donations (if every petition sheet were filled and every signature valid, we would need to print over 20,000 pages - not to mention pamphlets and materials to help get the word out). We have paypal on our website - any amount greatly appreciated.

We have had many election issues in AZ and we are almost certain it would pass if we can get it on the ballot.

Thank you to those working for election integrity all across the country,
Dan