There's really nothing left to speculate about. The whole administration LIED and continued LYING for months afterward and even till today. They knew they were lying but kept it up just to keep support for an illegal invasion.

You didn't really expect the administration to ask the American people for a blank check to invade other countries, do you? How could they possibly have told us the truth?

The irony of all this is that Saddam is on trial and Rumsfeld isn't. I find that utterly indefencible.

Here's another side to the pre-war push: Has anyone seen the story circulating that Saddam had accepted an offer for exile by the United Arab Emirates in order to avoid war? Apparently, the deal was eventually scuttled by the Arab league. But, it just goes to show that if this administration had done some arm-twisting behind the scenes, they could have gotten what they wanted (regime change) and avoided this war.

So, why is it that only 59% of Americans believe Bush misled the American people in his march to war? Is the other 40% not paying attention or just answering out of partisan support for the president's policies?

Off topic, sorry, I just wanted to put this up for all of you Pat Robertson fans out there.

VIRGINIA BEACH, Va. - Religious broadcaster Pat Robertson warned residents of a rural Pennsylvania town Thursday that disaster may strike there because they "voted God out of your city" by ousting school board members who favored teaching intelligent design.

All eight Dover, Pa., school board members up for re-election were defeated Tuesday after trying to introduce "intelligent design" _ the belief that the universe is so complex that it must have been created by a higher power _ as an alternative to the theory of evolution.

"I'd like to say to the good citizens of Dover: If there is a disaster in your area, don't turn to God. You just rejected him from your city," Robertson said on the Christian Broadcasting Network's "700 Club."

The other forty percent of americans don't "like" politics therefore do not listen when the conversation turns to these type of topics. There is something wrong with the way americans view politics and if we can get more citizens involved in politics the margin of ignorance will decrease.

John, many people of my generation were taught never to discuss politics or religion. This mantra was drilled into us from the time we were children. Many still believe it is not correct to discuss these topics in a social setting. The Lie worked quite well and many still believe it. The sole purpose was obvious, keep the people uninformed and isolated. I still don't know what my neighbors believe, but then I hardly know them. I do not hesitate to tell my friends and relatives what I believe. Guess I am speaking out on unspeakable subjects as I am speaking of FORBIDDEN subjects.

Regarding your other point, people don't like politics, I agree. I have many in my life that don't know what is going on with their gov't. I can only speak for myself but will say trying to stay on top of all that is happening takes alot of research ie: time. Many don't have the time or drive required to follow all the stories. They will only 'rise up' when something happens that dramatically affects their life on a personal issue, ie: bankruptcy , health issue, property rights, personal freedom. Whatever the catalyst, the awakening begins, and many can not go back to sleeping again.

Newsweek and Time: these star rag mags started by good skull and bonesman are designed to espout the proper crooked stance to those looking for a quote "educated American mindfck." That way people of the US can get the damage control story of what they should believe from the bastards that control this country. Don't want paper choose plastic. Don't want republican choose Democrat. Prescription drugs are good for you and they're the answer to all your problems. But don't dare say a bad word about the TIME man of the year George Bush or your god will not help you in the next rigged Presidential election. Pat Robertson why don't you quit speaking for God. I never heard God speak but if I did I think his first words would be to tell people like you to shut up and quit threatening other people with that which you know nuthin about.

For SunnyD re #2: Even if Saddam Hussein had left office voluntarily there would still have been a war. The PNAC wanted the access to oil, and especially the bases [which are now being built]. It didn't really matter who was in power. The invasion and occupation of Iraq were what they really wanted. Regime change was just another pretext, like the nonexistent WMDs and the nonexistent ties between Iraq and Al Qaeda.

As the PNAC put it [in their very cleverly deceptively named "Rebuilding America's Defenses"]

While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein.

You can read more about it here.

For Merifour: You're right about people and politics. Many accept the status quo until their own ox is gored, then they raise hell. Call it the "politics of selfishness."

I think the "don't discuss politics or religion in a social setting" shibboleth was simply a polite way of maintaining a friendly atmosphere at a party. OK to talk about the kids, or sports, or the weather...just don't mention that stolen election last year, or the war being fought based on lies, or why one church forbids abortion and another tolerates it. Almost by definition, these become volatile topics.

But I'd submit the Bush administration and its fundamentalist Christian enablers (who are also opposed to any compromises regarding Israel and her neighbors) have so threatened our way of life and our children's futures that it's our collective obligation to speak out. Don't wait until the military recruiter interviews your grandson at school. Don't wait until global warming forces everyone to move to the Yukon Territory. Don't wait for gas prices to hit $10/gallon, or for the next election to be stolen.

Speak out. Write letters. Give your congressman what for. E-mail friends, and even enemies. Things have gone way too far in the United States...silence is not golden, it's toxic.

The US administration and the congress are controlled by an atmosphere of lies and deception.

It is as if they think they are on stage and their role is to see who can be the most clever at cover up and subterfuge.

The target of this immoral game is the american people.

But the people are not even close to buying the crap as the polls show.

But the politicians have hypnotized themselves into ignoring polls.

The neoCondi "Mushroom Cloud" Rice recently cast aspersions on the poll that said only 2% of african americans support bu$hit.

The whole thing stinks. From the 9/11 attacks, to the WMD fantasies.

Another scientist has written a book showing that the building collapse on 9/11 does not fit the story (link here).

Today I observed an interview of the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. His uniform was so like the NAZI uniforms used by Germany in WWII. It was a striking similarity.

Dredd, thank you for posting that excellent link to Professor Jones' assessment of the impossible official 9/11 story. THANK YOU!

This is one of the problems we've been facing - most people who rallied with bu$h in favor of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq believe the official 9/11 story. Without that story, the reasons for going to war in Iraq vanish like a puff of smoke in front of a magician's mirror, leaving the Emporer and his court standing naked in front of the world. Truly, the Emporer has no clothes --- when will the sheeple notice?

Already the truth about all the huge and objectionable lies told by this admin, that took us to war in Iraq is coming out --- even the mainstream media is finally reporting it. Even Chris Matthews (who is guilty of helping John Kerry lose voters in the 2004 election by perpetrating negative myths & lies) has been doing a 7-day expose on the lies told by the administration regarding pre-war intelligence. Even though Matthews is still buying into the myth that bu$h won the election, he is bringing a lot of information to mainstream media.

Tonight, watch Chris Matthews' Hardball at 7 pm on MSNBC for his hard-hitting attack on Chalabi, the bu$h admin. and pre-war LIES! If you don't get MSNBC, you can read all about it at THIS LINK.

At the link you will find more like this:

Bush administration: Parade of lies

Bob Shrum blogs:

"The Bush administration looks forward to the trial of “Scooter” Libby, says Republican National Chairman Ken Mehlman. Just like the sausage looks forward to the meat grinder. On matters great and trivial, lying is second nature to an Administration that came to power by stealing the 2000 Presidential election. Look at the parade of lies." **MORE**

I feel compelled to post this snippet from Dr. Steve Jones' paper(the Brigham Young Professor - Dredd's link in #11) because it is VERY IMPORTANT to circulate everywhere:

Dr. Steve Jones' paper

[Regarding the molten metal found at Ground Zero after the buildings collapsed:)

"I would very much like to see an analysis of the elemental composition of the metal, and could do this myself if a small sample were made available according to scientific courtesy.

Any reader who knows of chemical analyses or even photographs of this molten metal found below the rubble piles of WTC 1, 2 and 7 is invited to speak out and contact the author.

This could lead to an experiment crucis."

Maybe 6 or 7 can start circulating this plea for help!

# 9 RLM a quotation I like....To sin by silence, when one should protest, makes cowards out of men....I will add to this women as well.

Dredd and Kira, thank you for your posts. I think PNAC needs to be added also because it advocated a 'new pearl harbor'. The neo's had the agenda well in advance of the selection of bush, we know this. I am so glad more and more people are starting to see that the game was on. That the evildoers in our WH would do something so heinous is so beyond our wildest imagination that only those that have studied our history and know what this Nation has done in our past were onto them from the beginning. I yelled at bush everytime I saw him on tv saying 'they hate us for our freedoms' and the sheeple bought it..I surely knew I had fallen down the rabbit hole.

I know the fear that people have about speaking out on these subjects. I am warned by people all the time to watch what I say. Well, I just really don't give a damn. I will speak my truth until I am dead. I do not fear them....they may kill my body but not my soul. M4 (who believes all those that are operating on the soul level are helping us win the war being waged against the evildoers destroying our country and the world)

P.S. I like to use bush's language ie: evildoers, this good born again Christian who massacres english like he does people. Back at ya bush.

Anyone else notice that Al-Libi is the Iraqi word for "Scooter Libby"?

Scooter is the neoCon historian who, for his scholarly historical perspectives, qualified to received up to 30 years free room and board at an undisclosed location.

While, Al-Libi, his Iraqi counterpart, received lotsa cash for his rendition of history too.