Thanks for the props on MN

Another very important point is we ALWAYS audit the elections with a limited hand count, automatically, even when there is not a close race...the state randomly chooses precincts and hand count the result, to ensure the machines count was correct.

also, since Franken Coleman, they have tightened the ballot security, putting them under lock and key and sherrif deputies 24/7 til recount etc.

MN still does too much vote by mail absentee ballots, but other than that...pretty darn good

Every state should do this paper ballots that are randomly, automatically audited if machine count used inititally

Speaking of Coleman, check this out:

"Norm Coleman To Joe Miller: It's 'Time To Move On' (VIDEO)"
http://tpmdc.talkingpoin...ove-on-video.php?ref=fpc

Of all people, geezzz....

Counting at the polling place after close of polls allows a corrupt polling place time to falsify the ballots and also to modify the count in view of machine counts and in collusion with other locations. It is clearly irresponsible or worse to repeatedly pepper this news blog with shameless advocation of a system and criticism of other systems without at the very least putting forward metrics/criteria for the comparison.

The American Lawyer (http://amlawdaily.typepad.com/amlawdaily/2010/11/another-minnesota-recount.html) has an interesting report on who's been hired by each side. Dayton has gone with the same people Al Franken used (Kevin Hamilton and Mark Elias from Perkins Coie), while Emmer has not gone with Norm Coleman's team, with the exception of Tony Trimble, a solo practitioner. The new faces are Michael Toner from Bryan Cave and Eric Magnusson from Briggs and Morgan.

Tony Trimble is a former chair of the FEC and former chief counsel of the RNC and Bush-Cheney 2000. Eric Magnuson is a former chief justice of the Minnesota Supreme Court and, most notably, was a member of the canvassing board that decided the Franken-Coleman contest. He is also a former law partner of Tim Pawlenty's.

RE: X93FE (comment #3). You are so concerned about counting at the polling place that you have ignored Brad's qualifiers: "counting them publicly, by hand, at the polling place, on election night, in front of everyone, including video cameras...."

Counting immediately means there is no way to know what the overall results are, so how much to cheat will not be known. It is MUCH, MUCH easier to change the results at a central tabulator. It requires a huge number of conspirators to pull it off at hundreds of separate locals simultaneously.

I am eager to see the recount results, Brad, as soon as available.

Earlier this week, (12/9, I think, at the deadline), the Oregon GOP exercised its prerogative to pay for a recount of the Governor contest, in which (first count) Kitzhaber(D) bettered Dudley(R) by about 17,000 votes out of about 2,ooo,ooo.

My figures are uncertain, as my attention has been haphazard. I think a half of 1-percent (.005 of total) triggers an automatic recount, and on 2,ooo,ooo votes (if there were that many) the margin would have had to be less than 10,000 to be required to recount at State expense.

The GOP may still renege, I think, or withhold payment and, either way, the recount stop before it starts. I don't know, but since announcing an intended recount, public response seems to range from unenthusiastic to no notice. Anyway, unremarked.

Oregon is all absentee ballots, all the time. 100% paper trail. I am a hearty advocate of Oregon's Vote-by-Mail. My interest in Minnesota's recount is 'how much' (quantity and percentage) changes from first count to recount, compared with 'how much' changes in Oregon's replay.

I expect that, (because I hope that), Vote-by-Mail proves to have the slimmer error or correction. If the margin was 17,ooo from the initial count, I expect the recount margin is plus-or-minus less than 170, that is, between 16,830 and 17,170.

Let us see.