And Busby is doing what?

Two events,.. Congratulations,.. a nice group of endorsements,.. this will be a fabulous opportunity to give these issues full exposure. Nice to see your hard work showing some positive results,.. a chance to voice your concerns about these matters.

Get your hair cut,.. floss and brush,.. shine your shoes,.. send your suit out if it needs to be pressed,..(and you know what your mother told you about your skivvies.)-( Likely he does not need/want
a reminded about that,.. but I figured it might get someone to smirk,.. so I apologize before hand.)

I hope you get packed with a standing room only audience,.. backed out the doors and down the sidewalk.
It is about time these issues be given a public forum.
Can't think of a better person to get that message across,.. in a clear and decisive manner.

Brad, you rock.

Good luck with these events, Brad.

Nunybiz--that was the first thought that came into my head, too. It is kind of sickening. I have little respect left for candidates on either side who "can't be seen" to demand that election results be verifiable in order to be certified.

I wish we'd also see Democratic and Republican winners asking that their results be audited with a hand count.

I'm pasting the comment I made late in a comment thread on this same topic on 6/20 since it seems appropriate and because I haven't gotten any answers yet:

I may have missed it but I have to ask, where has Debra Bowen been regarding the CA-50 Election debacle? I haven't heard anything about/from her since she won her CA Sec. of State primary. She's not listed by Brad as one of those that has taken a position and declared "No Confidence" in the announced results, demanded a manual hand count of the ballots used in the race and encouraged joining the Velvet Revolution petition. This should be bread and butter for her. No taking safe positions. That's not to say she has, but I'd like to hear that, not only has she taken a position but that she is helping lead the fight. If she is, she should be doing more of it in the media, both for her benefit as a candidate and for our benefit in trying to fight this voting machine/election corruption nightmare. Brad or anyone, can you tell me where she is and if I've missed something from her.

Old Turk

Didn't know you are really Brads mum. Spooky

Brad. You are at the forefront of the biggest story of the millenium.

Goodluc

Wow! All that money I sent to Democracy For America is paying off after all! I sent so much, I even got a hand addressed letter from Howard's brother who took over the DFA reins.

If the DLC doesn't lay off Dean's 50 state strategy, all my money will be going there. That is as soon as I have some money!

Let's hear that scream one more time!

YEEAAAHHH!

Has ANY member of Congress responded to this? Someone should go & poke them with a stick...see if they're alive in there.

Sally - (C) # 6,..

Just injecting a little levity,.. I would be inclined to be a little nervous if asked to be a spokesperson
on a "world stage." I thought a little humor might help.

DEMOCRATIC VOTER FRAUD WILL END IN OHIO !!

I'm visiting friends and family in the Cleveland, Ohio area and guess what I heard on the local news this morning. ALL VOTERS will need a "photo ID" to vote this November in Ohio.

This is Great News !!

NO PHOTO ID ... NO VOTE !!

I was so happy to hear that on the news, this will put an end to the Dems from voting multiple times.

***********
{ED NOTE: Florida Dave is wrong. Neither absentee or military voters are required to give a Photo ID to vote in Ohio. You're this close to getting banned Dave. Knock off the disinfo, or you're gone! BF}
***********

Answer to #1: She conceded, that's what she's doing. (see Kerry/Edwards) Dredd will "get me" for that comment (lol)

If they overturn it, will she know it?

If they overturn it, is someone going to tell her?

Try a google NEWS search on this: bilbray recount -brad

ONLY 5 NEWS ARTICLES COME UP !!!

lol…

The media is all over this story, all 5 stories.

lmao…

Good work, Brad. Nice to see this happening. Good luck with the meetings.

FD,.. (C) # 14

COMMENT #200 [Permalink]
... oldturk said on 6/23/2006 @ 9:03 am PT...

As November rapidly approaches,.. the right-wing
infiltrators/instigators to progressive blogs will
likely increase. Their mindless comments are specifically designed to deflect attention from valid/genuine issues that progressives hope to discuss/address prior to this coming election.

Hampering the ability of the opposition to organize,..
will enhance their ability to maintain the status-quo.
Expect them to dismantle any cohesiveness that the left
attempts to bring to our political equation.

Will Ann Coulter be voting in Ohio come Nov. 2006,..
does she own any real estate there ?

Or is her vote in New York,.. Connecticut,.. and Florida considered sufficient.

National media,.. Busby/Bilbray hand count,..
web sites addressing this issue,..

-----------------------

www.freepress.org/depart...nts/display/20/2006/2036

sacramentofordemocracy.org/ index.php?q=taxonomy/page/or/71

markcrispinmiller.blogspot.com/ 2006/06/demand-hand-recount-in-san-diego.html

www.awesomelibrary.org/Classroom/ Social_Studies/Government/Election_Reform.html

blog.washingtonpost.com/reportingforduty/ 2006/06/short_stint_on_day_shift_and_t.html

www.d4md.org/civicspace/?q=taxonomy_menu/1

www.d4md.org/civicspace/?q

www.progressiveu.org/ 113939-illegal-voting-machines-used-in-busby-bilbray-election-ca-50

www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/ duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364×1429264

www.whatreallyhappened.c...ives/cat_vote_fraud.html
www.rollingstone.com/nationalaffairs/?p=181

www.thetaskforce.org/med...release.cfm?releaseID=71

sacramentofordemocracy.org/?q=node/view/3929

www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1645033/posts

letters.salon.com/politics/ war_room/2006/06/07/ca50/view/?order=asc

www.houstondemocrats.com/archives/2006/06/

www.dcspectator.com/

www.conservativeunderground.com/ forum/showthread.php?t=75367

www.casavaria.com/sentid...e/06-0609-sdballots.html

www.boomantribune.com/story/2006/6/17/134322/660

www.opednews.com/maxwrite/showlocalareas. php?cid=/United+States+of+America

prairieweather.typepad.com/

www.signonsandiego.com/news/politics/ 50thdistrict/20060413-9999-7m13elect.html

www.hermes-press.com/busby_bilbray1.htm

www.threeriversonline.com/

forum.truthout.org/blog/user/pellelindbergh/diary

blog.washingtonpost.com/richmondreport/ 2006/06/election_day.html

www.prorev.com/indexa.htm

Big Dan #11

And why would I want to "get you"?

My understanding is that she conceded that the election officials in SD County had indicated that she lost by about 4%.

But to be fair she also said that it was up to election officials to certify the election results, because no one else can, and that her concession does not change state law as to how certifications are to take place.

There is no doubt that she is like most Americans, which is no sin per se, and does not understand or perceive the danger to democracy that the current state of election handling presents.

I happen to agree that she is naive, in terms of the condition of elections in the US, and should not have conceded.

But I agree with her that certifiying the results is for an election official to do or not to do.

Further, I would even urge her to challenge the results if the results are certified without a hand count.

FL. Dave spewed the following bile:

"I was so happy to hear that on the news, this will put an end to the Dems from voting multiple times"

LOL... so the Supreme Court's descision in GA stating that forcing "photo ID" is unconstitutional doesn't matter to you or the Ohio Election board?

Not to mention, moron, ANYONE can get "fake IDs" pretty easily, which means a Dem or Repuke CAN vote "multiple times".. Only a true simpleton would think that a "photo ID" is a valid "security measure" or valid "anti-fraud measure".

Though, what WILL happen is, thousands (potentially 10s of thousands) of "poor voters" (mostly Dems, right?) won't be able to vote because they don't have a photo ID.

Not that you care if you prevent legal votes from being cast, right? You have no interest in having a country run based on the will of "the" people, you want a country run on the will of "your" people.

We shouldn't really CARE where Busby is on this any more. Sure, it would be nice from a "moving the argument forward and getting some scant airtime" perspective if the candidate involved was actually out there showing some courage of convictions, but it's NOT a requirement.

This is like a player who has a REALLY big bet on a game that doesn't matter to the 0-12 team playing --- the better wants the refs to call the game fairly, even if the losing team doesn't care much if they are 0-12 or 0-13. She's just the NAME ON THE BALLOT --- but the ballot and the right to have it counted fairly in a legally run election BELONGS TO EACH AND EVERY VOTER of the California 50th.

Oh, Brad, and can't we PLEASE ban Florida Dave? Puh-LEASE? With all YOU and we have to do, do we really need his BS, lies, and distractions around?

Charlie L
Portland, OR

Charlie,

Ignore Florida Dave until he presents and somewhat valid argument then bury him. This site is open to all view points and doesn't ban people who opose it. Even trolls get a chance to speak which separates this blog from the rightwing bullshit blogs out there that supress any sort of opposition for fear of a real debate. Let the trolls be and ignore them. Don't ban the asshole.

Oldturk #18

Thanks fot that Sacramento for Democracy link.

Sorry John J (#22) I disagree totally.

The title of this thread is:
"Busby/Bilbray 'Emergency Townhall' Events Announced! More 'NO CONFIDENCE' Declarations in the Election"

Brad doesn't have a "purpose of this site" message anywhere that I know of, and I don't recall reading one. So, I take the risk of trying to "discern" one from the way the blog is set up and what content is posted on it.

The blog is a basic posting with discussion format, with no space for user-contributed main articles (other than special invites from Brad when he's busy or on-the-road). And the content of EVERY SINGLE MAIN POSTING appears to be related to ELECTION FRAUD.

That tells ME that the purpose of this blog is to educate people about ELECTION FRAUD and (through the blogmenting [comments on articles]) facilitate the discussion between people that are concerned about ELECTION FRAUD. I would suspect there is also a great interest in EDUCATING PEOPLE NEW TO THE ISSUE who might wander by as a result of one of Brad's many public speaking events or the many sites that link here, knowing that Brad will have the latest on any story related to ELECTION FRAUD. I am especially interested in this third aspect.

People who are NEW TO THE ISSUE OF ELECTION FRAUD will probably read a blog posting here and MAY choose to continue their education by reading the comments. SEEING THAT SOME COMMENTS HAVE BEEN EDITED BY THE BLOG OWNER, they may believe that those that are left behind are fair, true, and reasonable. Or, at the very least, that the owner of the blog doesn't have personal reason to believe them to be lies, distractions, or gross misinterpretations, and thus subject to removal.

Discussion of irrelevant decisions in a totally-corrupt Ohio or incorrect references to the number of news stories on the issue are NOT helpful to move the goals above forward.

Additionally, to allow the comments of Republican trolls to live on the same space that is trying to shed light on Republican ELECTION FRAUD CRIMES (well, really, Brad is trying to shed light on ALL election fraud crimes, it's not his fault that 99.5% are committed by Republicans) is a mistake. It makes the situation look like "he says/she says" or "there are two sides to this." It is exactly the same game that the MASS media (Corporate and Republican dominated) is playing and it leaves people believing that "fair and honest people could disagree" about the extent of Republican ELECTION FRAUD or the horrible state of our electoral process. I DON'T BELIEVE THAT BRAD HOLDS THAT OPINION. (I know that I don't.)

The trolls are a STRATEGY being conducted by the Republicans to diminish the value of this new tool (blogs and peer-to-peer networks on the internet) that they do not yet nearly fully control the message of (unlike Newspapers, Television, Radio, Magazines, Cable News, etc.). Trolls WANT to confuse, obfuscate, distract, explode, and otherwise minimize the power of BRAD's speech --- he need not give them that privilege (it is MOST CERTAINLY __NOT__ A RIGHT!).

I, for one, believe that this Democratic Republic of ours stands on a precipice right now and is in very great danger of falling into an abyss of corporate fascism from which it will not recover. At the heart of this risk is ELECTION FRAUD that allows candidates who do NOT have the support of the voters to take power through disenfranchisement and other trickery. When the people can NOT change their government by democratic means, then we do not have a democracy --- we have something very different.

I like to come to Bradblog and support it in the hopes of building a critical mass of people who are prepared to fight for their democracy as they see it slip out of their hands. If people like Florida Dave have the same "rights to speech" here as Winter Patriot, then all hope is lost. I'll just go off and yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater (if I can find one playing GWB: A LIFE OF GLORY AND HONOR).

Charlie L
Portland, OR

A : BB2 (C) # 23,..

Florida Dave claims only 5 web sites address the issues of the Busby/Bilbray hand count issues.

Their must be a "block" on his Internet access that
he is not aware of,.. or he is a flagrant liar and spin-mister who has a "mental block" that only permits him to see things from a fascists point of view.

Why do fascists hate America so ?

Dredd, the reality of Busby's concession, and her statement that the secretary of state can still proclaim her the winner, is that in order for that to happen, McPherson would have to tacitly admit that the very machines he certified should not have been certified.

Her statement is correct as to legal procedure. As a pratical matter it's absurd, because she's assuming McPherson could be part of the solution, when in fact he's a big part of the problem. I think it also creates problems for Debra Bowen's campaign against McPherson, because one of her fellow Democrats is saying, in effect, "McPherson can be trusted to do the right thing."

This THERE,.. not that THEIR,... Sorry my mind wanders.
I do that with sight/site,.. I know better,.. but,..
welcome to the human race,.. none of us are infallible.

This is the statement that Busby SHOULD make immediately, or at the very latest at the first Town Hall meeting (with NOT FOR RELEASE advances to the media so they show up to tape it) next week:

"I conceded in my race for congress (nn) days ago. I did so because I believed that I had lost the race and that the election had been conducted fairly and legally. It has now come to my attention that there were GROSS IRREGULARITIES AND VIOLATIONS OF ELECTION LAW in this race, including serious breaches of security of the voting equipment that could have compromised the entire election. As such, I can no longer have confidence in the outcome of the election.

"Because of these illegal acts by election officials sworn to uphold the law, I am forced to demand an immediate hand count of every ballot in this race and a thorough review by the FBI of all aspects of this election.

"THERE WERE ACTIONS TAKEN IN THIS ELECTION THAT ARE IN DIRECT VIOLATION OF THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA. For the Head of Elections or the Secretary of State to make a certification of this election with the knowledge that there were illegal acts by election officials in the conduct of the election would be a CRIME in and of itself and also an immoral and unforgivable act by the Secretary of State.

"On behalf of EVERY legal voter in the California 50th Congressional District and EVERY legal voter in California, I demand and expect a total and complete MANUAL COUNT of every ballot in this race. I am also forwarding today to the FBI and the Attorney General of the State of California for investigation of violations of Federal Election Law a request for a thorough and complete investigation.

"I do NOT do this because I believe I have been denied the right to replace a criminal Republican congressman, but because the People of San Diego and the People of California need to know that their legal votes will be counted in legally administered elections that follow the law --- anything else is unacceptable. WE MUST HAVE CONFIDENCE IN OUR ELECTIONS. This is not about ME, this is about DEMOCRACY!"

So, dear Ms. Busby, do you have it in you?

Written (but not copyrighted, feel free to use it) by:
Charlie L
Portland, OR
CLL2001@gmail.com (when it works)

Of course none of you tinfoil hats would ever go tit-for -tat with a article that REALLY exposes the truth like this one:

http://www.humaneventson...com/article.php?id=15683

Diebold in only TWO of Ohio's counties? 2 out of 88? Give me a break.

***************
{ED NOTE: Taking editors privilege again here since I haven't had time to keep up with comments. The above story is filled with inaccuracies, wholly debunked nonsense and disinformation. More disinfo links and "honest Republican" is gone also. Go read RFK's Rolling Stone article and get back to us. It answers every question in your propoganda link from HumanEventsOnline (a propoganda/disinfo site itself). BF}
***************

Charlie,

I'm going to explain this one more time and one more time only. I didn't realize doing a GOOGLE search was so difficult for you. This time I'm going to give you very clear cut directions.

#1) pull up www.google.com

#2) in the white box, type in the following: BILBRAY RECOUNT

#3) on the top of the google webpage you will see the following: Web Images Groups News Froogle Maps more >>

#4) click on News

#5) you will see 10 articles, which 5 of them are from Bradblog

#6) in the white box where you had typed in: BILBRAY RECOUNT **Now type in BILBRAY RECOUNT -BRAD

#7) -BRAD will show the results that aren't from BradBlog...

NOW YOU WILL SEE 5 RESULTS !!!

THE TRUTH WILL SET YOU FREE !!!

Now Charlie, that wasn't so hard was it?

lol...

So, FL. Dave, you only support our allegations that the MSM doesn't care about fair, legal, valid, transparent, accurate elections..

What's your point?

Oh.. right.. Trolls™ don't have points..

Oh.. and FL. Dave.. Here is the result of "bilbray recount -brad" for me..

Results 1 - 10 of about 953 for bilbray recount -brad. (0.28 seconds)

For busby recount -brad I get

Results 1 - 10 of about 27,400 for busby recount -brad. (0.24 seconds)

I don't know what YOUR looking at, but surely it's not the same thing that I am getting from google.

*waves to the silly little ignorant troll™ *

I made it real simple....

LINK
http://news.google.com/n...nt+&btnG=Search+News

LINK w/o BRAD
http://news.google.com/n...;q=bilbray+recount+-brad

LOL.. so you say go to google, but offer news.google as your source? simple, eh? And did you notice you're going through Microsoft somehow? it's in part of your URL search criteria.. Interesting..

here..

bilbray..
http://www.google.com/se...nt+-brad&btnG=Search

and busby..
http://www.google.com/se...nt+-brad&btnG=Search

tool

Now, can we get back to the topic of the thread.. that being how the illegally used machines don't offer any reasonable, rational, intelligent person any sense of "validity" because the hackable machines were put in completely insecure environments?

#9 Old Turk

Did you liberals ride the short bus or what?

The directions were very clear..

#3) on the top of the google webpage you will see the following: Web Images Groups News Froogle Maps more >>

#4) click on News

No wonder it's only Dems & Libs that have trouble with voting machines.

lol...

lmao...

Ah.. now I see your "narrow it down to the news orginizations are publicly speaking about it"... Missed that in my first pass, I've gotten accustomed to ignoring most of your drivle..

So, again, you support the allegation that the "news" doesn't care about our Democracy.. which we've been saying all along and.. why narrow it down to "official news orginizations" anyway? Isn't part of the appeal of the Internet that you can find tons of info that you might not otherwise have access to? I mean, if you are only worried about "official news outlets", why even bother looking on the net?

I guess the reason it was hard to follow is because your broken brain can't do things the straightforward way.. that would be to say "go to google news (you can get there by going to www.google.com and clicking on the 'news' link) and do a search".. Of course, being clear was never something Republicans and neocons ever cared about, right?

And, again, back to the thread? Troll™ boy? You don't have -any- concerne about these HACKABLE machines spending up to a week in the trunk of some car? You aren't worried about someone tampering with the system?

Savantster

I guess if you put enough filters in front of your eyes you only have to see what you want to see.

Isn't that why the made rose colored sunglasses?

Brad...

I hope you are successful! (I'd invite my grandparents to go because they live in Santa Ana... but they are staunch Bush supporters.)

However, I get the feeling that you are targeting but one "tool" in Karl Rove's "toolbelt," as it were. If you take away stolen elections from Karl Rove, he'll just find some other way of winning...

And, personally, I don't know about you... but I'd rather have him leaving elections open to fraud than to, say, have 15 more 9/11 terrorist attacks... in order to maintain and increase his power.

But, that's just me.

Oh, and at least one of your 5 points the readers to www.bradblog.com.. perhaps we should discount that one too, since the -brad didn't filter that one? So we have 4 "news" outlets that reported on it, and basically demand "hand counts of the ballots"..

So, tell us agian why is it that you don't want to ensure a valid count is made?

PS.. if you check the URLs of the "bilbray recount" search, you see that only 3 of the 10 are at Bradblog.com.. your search criteria should be blocking "brad", but not just as the URL, it will block (supposedly) anything that has the word "brad" in it, even if it's the author's name, for example. So.. 7/10 "news" hits are non-bradblog sites, only 3 of the 10 are from Brad.. *shrug* Not that any of this matters, and not that you care that it doesn't matter

I am confused as to how some think ANYONE can vote multiple times. In Ohio, when a person votes, they must sign in next to the ONE signature that they provided when they first registered. That’s it. Once. Absentee ballots, no matter when they were received, are supposed to be entered AFTER the other ballots are entered by voters.
As to this comment: “Diebold in only TWO of Ohio’s counties? 2 out of 88? Give me a break.” This was when the 2004 election was held. Since then, all Ohio counties must use - by law - one of a variety of voting machines that were on the list of eligible machines provided by the Secretary of State, Kenneth Blackwell.

OT but way too funny - I just got an invitation to bid on the construction of a job called "White House Black Market"

ROTFLMAO!

First, AN HONEST REPUBLCIAN (#29) is just another lying Republican. The link to Human Events ONline is supposed to impress me? I'm to supposed to believe an ounce of that drivel? Why don't you read the first paragraph with an "open mind" (if you have one). Most honest journalism doesn't begin with slandering one side, at least most NON-Republican Journalism doesn't begin that way. From there, we get three more BLATENT LIES ("The Illegal Florida Supreeme Court Recount"? --- as if the decisions of a State Supreme Court (where the US COnstitution specifically puts the control of all elections) could be illegal). Then the lies about the results of the "recounts after the fact" where the article states EXACTLY THE OPPOSITE OF THE TRUTH (we usually call that LYING).

Brad, I'm telling you, if you don't assign somebody the capability to KILL (from the site, not actually) these trolls, the place is going to degenerate into a yahoo news-like mess.

They will do ANYTHING to keep us off-topic or discussing non-sequitors. Imagine the power we might have if we could formulate some plans and refine some arguments WITHOUT these lazy, kool-aid-drinking, distractions.

THERE IS NO INTELLECTUAL VALUE IN FEEDING TROLLS. If you want to have those discussions, go to freepers (until they ban you) or National Review or some other right-wing site.

Trolls are a distraction.

Trolls live to take us off topic.

Trolls purpose is to create NOISE that will hide the SIGNAL (truth) so that anybody who wanders by will wander away saying: "Gee, I wouldn't want to read THAT --- it's full of silly arguments and back and forth name-calling."

Trolls are to the internet what negative advertising is to political races --- a sewer-level discussion designed to drive people away from the PROCESS.

Trolls, like negative ads, are a REPUBLICAN strategy.

If this site doesn't institute TROLL-KILL mechanisms, it will find at least one poster (me) leaving for better waters.

Charlie L
Portland, OR

P.S. Brad? Would you think about this if I donated more money? I'd be willing to negotiate! That's how important I think bradblog.com is.

Wow, Charlie L, that was fun, I'll have to do it again, and in case the rest of you missed it, here is the article:

http://www.humaneventson...com/article.php?id=15683

Maybe you need moderators, then you could filter out all the comments to comply with your own narrow, and quite incorrect BTW, view.

Charlie, trolls are made, and you just made me one. I'm going to have fun with it, I sure hope you do to!

I heard the other day that if you aren't a Liberal by 25 you have no heart, and if your not Conservative by 45 you have no brain.

Charlie, you're just a sore loser, just like the article described! LMAO!

Florida Dave,

Can you explain how Google News decides which sources to include, and which to not? Do you understand that they are chosen by an algorithm?

Honest Republican,

That Human Events Online "article" is a yawn. There's not really anything to go tit-for-tat with, just strawman arguments. Instead, I'd like to go tit-for-tat with YOU. So, formulate the best argument you can in defense of Ohio's irregular elections in 2004, and I will do my best to knock it down.

Ok, tit for tat.

Bush won Ohio in 04, by a lot. Kerry lost, by a lot. Get over it.

Any questions?

You have got to be kidding, sir.

Brad, can we please make AN HONEST REPUBLICAN go away?

If I cited something written by somebody whose bio says: "Mr. Hawkins runs Right Wing News, a conservative blog. He writes a weekly column for Human Events Online." and claimed it was authoritative of ANYTHING (other than right-wing spin), I hope somebody would ban me.

Here's an article from an equally biased source (on the left) but it doesn't choose to insult the right, and it relies on FACTS for its evidence that Gore won the 2000 election.

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/111201a.html

If there are ANY factual errors in this article, I invite a posting of them (WITH SOURCES!)

I think I just realized the difference between "us" and "them."

They are "laughing" about the destruction of our country and we are crying about it and fighting to stop it.

I've noticed that trend in troll posts all across the internet --- they are always laughing gleefully, as if it gives them PLEASURE to "win" an argument or post an insult or take a thread way off-topic.

I guess I'm a fool for wanting bradblog to be more than that.

Charlie L

Honest Republican,

If you can flesh out your argument a bit, I may yet respond. The topic is: Ohio's election irregularities in 2004 led to the awarding of their electoral votes to Bush. You are defending those results, and I will provide the counter-argument.

Begin.

Yo, "A Honest Republican"

If you're going to go troll on us, change your screen name, because there ARE no honest trolls. And, if you ever were an honest Republican, you certainly could understand people beginning to believe that no such animal exists nowadays.

Electoral Fraud is serious as a heart attack, and people of all political persuasions can be found here, MOST of whom want the stealing of elections BY ANYBODY to stop. Being a troll does not contribute to that goal, and discourages people who want to help reach that goal. So. If you are going troll on us now, a spectacularly dishonest occupation, have a little respect for the honest republicans left in our country, and

CHANGE YOUR SCREEN NAME.

Charlie L

As you can see from all the things he is up to lately Brad is a very busy man. At the moment I believe he doesn't have the time to babysit the trolls here so we will need to deal with them the best we can.
They are irritating and I agree with you in that they try to drag away the thread and chase of new readers.
Brad has in the past and I'm sure will in the future, disipline these these trolls by removing their disinformation and even banning them.
Brad does not automaticaly ban someone for a different view though. He keeps the blog open for discussion, but when someone gets out of hand he takes action.
At this time I think he is just too busy.

The best way is for everyone here to realize that you will not win an argument with them and to just ignore them. We need to spend our energies in other areas than spatting with them.

Their attitudes are not conducive to change and only serve to anger everyone.

Trolls are a fact of life like potholes in the road, we just need to go on and avoid them the best we can.

Hang around Charie, I enjoy your input and look forward to more of your discussions.

EVERYONE --------------------------------------> DON'T FEED THE TROLLS

Brad - don't be too hasty with that award you were considering giving to Hedgecock. I was wrong yesterday in assuming Limbaugh would not have him as a sub anymore since he (Hedgecock) agreed with your position on the handling of the voting machines used in busby/bilbray. As you stated in your above article, he was the sub today. and i listened to THE WHOLE 3 HOURS. AND NOT A SINGLE WORD ABOUT YOU OR HIS CONVERSATION WITH YOU. he did mention the election right off the bat, was glad bilbray won but - more importantly - was elated at how the result showed the dems to be incompetant and such. and EVEN MORE IMPORTANT, expressed his opinion that the REAL threat to democracy in this November election comes from ILLEGAL ALIENS. needless to say, very disappointting and disheartening.

So, do we know of a good Democratic House member and a good Republican House member who might be able to be convinced to put forth a non-partisan bill calling for an investigation of the CA-50 "in order to restore American's faith and confidence in the quality of our elections and the sanctity of their vote"???

If we could get the bill moving, then we could all individually pressure our own Congresspeople to sign on and co-sponsor.

I know there would probably be plenty of Democrats who could eventually be gotten on board. Are there ANY Republicans who would move away from their party line and support the CONSTITUTION they swore (or affirmed) to support?

Let's make this a REAL grass-roots movement. Sure, Rove will find a way to make it work for him and the Republicans, but at least we won't be standing still waiting for the next shoe to drop.

Ideas anyone?

My Congressman, Blumenauer (OR-5) is, unfortunately, one of the "old school" Dems who think that politics is just a process and that we can "vote them out" if they keep doing things wrong. He doesn't "get" the threat of ELECTION FRAUD or the fact that the Rovian Republicans will do anything and everything to win. He doesn't understand that this is a battle between good and evil and not just a "friendly debate."

Anybody somewhere else have some better candidates?

Charlie L
Portland, OR
(Where 100% of our paper, mailed-in ballots are counted on ES&S or Sequoia machines (using secret code they won't share) and the only thing between us and 51%-49% Republican wins in every major race is the most stand-up and honest SoS in the USA --- Bill Bradbury)

The effort to thwart Democrats from ousting Bush in 2004 was moumental and unprecedented. Even Bush supporters admit that and celebrate it to this day! But why? What portion of the misguided Bush administration was so damned necessary to retain? Many election experts assert the Bush win was ONLY possible through disenfranchisement of voters, election tricks committed by corrupt Secretaries of State, election workers, and through outright fraud? What did Bush supporters win besides the re-election of the worst president ever? When do we all begin to see some benefit of your efforts?

DKD: Very disheartening news. I'd really hoped I had been wrong about Brad only making the right wingnuts look good when he went on their shows. Now it looks as if it may have happened again. Of course, if Hedgecock had even made a peep about the "no confidence" in the Busby/Bilbray affair, Limbaugh's producers would have cut it, and he would never have gotten the gig again. He might want fair elections, but evidently not as badly as subbing for flubby. That's a HUGE problem nowadays. It's always been big, but it's grown exponentially: the common good almost never trumps personal gain now.

Can I Comment ?

DuuuH

lol
lmao

Who said that? FD I presume

Ok, I've had my fun for this afternoon, and I'll go away unless someone posts something particuarly inflammatory, and then of course I'll have fun with that too. Don't feed the trolls was pretty good advice.

I won't speak to the voting irregularities in Ohio, I don't live there and have never spoken with the election officials there, either, so you win, I have no argument.

If you have real evidence of election fraud, why haven't you presented it to the local District Attorney? A finding of fact in a court of law may lend credence to your claims, and as far as I can tell none of you have that.

I'm real concerned that all of you are seeing evil where it doesn't exist. The world isn't "out to get you", the Democrats aren't and by the same token, neither are the Republicans. There is just a difference in idealogies.

Most people are just normal folks with opinions of their own just trying to get by in this crazy world.

I knew the article I posted was perfect for BradBlog the moment I saw it. Of course it was right wing, and the very same points could have been made with a little more neutral point of view, but you guys fell hook line and sinker. Thanks so much for providing me with such a wonderful source of amusement this afternoon.

LMAO!

AHR: LYAO all you want, but it would have been a little better if you had followed the many links to the proofs you think we lack here. Having fun with a bunch of people who are, legitimately and lucidly, frightened for the future of our country just vitiates all the merit of your self-proclaimed honesty. I, for one, won't bother to follow your link, since your motives, as you have just proclaimed, were so mean-spirited. Brad's links, on the other hand, are here for the education, edification and good of one and all. ROTF while you LYAO. Have a gas. Knock yourself out. Really.

99, there aint no talkin to them, they like Fascism
Fagetaboutit

bunch of fuking crackers (and I'm a cream puff myself)

Charlie, i hear ya --- the trolls make the dumbest comments while trying to peddle their lipstick-for-pigs. the truth won't play along, and they will do just about anything to hold onto to their republican bedtime stories, not realizing (or not caring) how wrong they are, how ridiculous they look, or how they are really just protecting crooks.

you gotta wonder what kind of person would gleefully cheer the disenfranchisement of their fellow Americans. well, actually, it tells you exactly what kind of people they are (which is why they vote re-poo-blican).

allow them to spin themselves to their cold little hearts' content. have a good laugh and then just scroll past, because nothing they say will ever change the facts. don't feed them. they will get bored, take their toys and go away.

alternatively, use them as an opportunity to hone your arguments and refine your source list. we all benefit from the wonderfully articulate souls here. when you respond to a troll, or post a link, you remind us all of the sources we may have forgotten or misplaced, and that's a helpful service. newbies may be a little lost in the mountain of information here, but they will pick up on the truth very quickly.

there will always be trolls, just like there will always be spam and trash to take out --- it is a fact of internet life (damm you, bill gates! [shakes fist]). but hey --- free country, free speech, let 'em make fools of themselves. it's a funny little show they put on --- 'the tap-dancing trolls'.

Honest Republican,

Thank you for conceding defeat in the sole argument that you put forth in this thread. It was clear from the beginning that you had no understanding of the issue, and gracefully bowed out while you still had a shred of dignity left.

If you have real evidence of election fraud, why haven't you presented it to the local District Attorney? A finding of fact in a court of law may lend credence to your claims, and as far as I can tell none of you have that.

It IS being brought before a court of law at this very moment. That's the great thing about this issue - it is being dealt with lawfully, OUTSIDE of the court of public opinion, where ridiculous tactics like calling people 'tin foil hats' won't gain much traction.

I'm glad you had fun today, I did too.

"Honest Republican" is now banned. I don't have time to delete his disinfo links right now. As well, personal attacks on other commenters is not allowed.

Too bad. Had he made an honest argument, we would have welcome yet another honest Republican here.

The other dishonest Republican (Florida Dave) will soon be banned as well if he keeps it up. Personal attacks on other commenters are not tolerated, and I don't have time to deal with all your bullshit.

For the record:

+ Ohio does NOT require Photo ID for Absentee or Military voters, so your comment about their new disenfranchising, regressive Photo ID law is horseshit.

+ Since I've never called for a "recount" in the Busby race, it's unlikely you'll find many hits re: "Brad and Recount". Though you're pathetic notion that number of hits for anything equals validity of story is (of course) laughable.

Knock it off, or you'll be gone very shortly. I just don't have time for this shit. Disagree all you want with whatever, but do so honestly, without presenting disinformation and without personal attacks on other commenters.

Thank you.

Thank you Brad

I stood just as afraid when Bill Clinton was president. I guess that means I know how you feel. I wondered how he could have possibly been elected then too.

Having fun with a bunch of people who are, legitimately and lucidly, frightened for the future of our country just vitiates all the merit of your self-proclaimed honesty.

Careful about poking on my so-called lack of knowledge, you may find that to be a bit untrue. I may call you on certain facts that you can only support with websites.

I don't believe websites that cannot back up their allegations, including BradBlog.

You HAVE ensured that I'll be back, and in greater numbers. Thank you for that.

It's been real, its been fun, but it hasn't been real fun.

It's Friday night, and I have a life. I'm going to go have some real fun. I bid you all goodnight.

Charlie L there you go

Oh, Brad, I cannot tell you how delicious your comment about deleting the link I made to my article is. I only refreshed to see my own comment to then see I was banned. Apparently I'm not.

Ever heard of a Proxy?

LMAO

Brad --- If I were you, I'd complain about the quality of the trolls they're sending you.

#63
Thanks, Des, for saying it very well:
"...free country, free speech, let 'em make fools of themselves."
Anyone who goes to the trolls' links & reads the articles, & then goes to our links & reads those, can (hopefully) discern the difference.
The link from "A Honest Republican" (it's 'AN' btw, sweetie)--comment #29--& Charlie's link from #49 provide an excellent contrast: the former relies from the beginning on name-calling & ridicule; the latter on an examination of documented facts.
In fact the biggest red flag after the '04 election was the immediacy with which the right jumped in with ridicule & taunts of "There's no proof!" despite the virtually universal understanding that investigation normally PRECEDES any finding of proof.
But what I really wanted to say was: Some good news today (via RawStory):
"Senate Approves Whistleblower Rights Breakthrough
Legislation Added to Defense Bill Would Restore Free Speech Rights Canceled by Supreme Court for Federal Government Workers on the Job"

link

#56 TLV said this: "Many election experts assert the Bush win was ONLY possible through disenfranchisement of voters, election tricks committed by corrupt Secretaries of State, election workers, and through outright fraud"

~~~~~~~~~

TLV,
Why haven't any Republican supporters been arrested or convicted for fraud in the 2004 election?

I can't find any... but here are a few Democratic supporters that have been CONVICTED concerning the 2004 election.

#1) Man pleads guilty to filing bogus voter registrations / Democrat voter fraud case traced to Defiance County registrations volunteer: (124 registrations falsified, for crack cocaine)

http://www.toledoblade.c...;SearchID=73199766722272

#2) At least 16 St. Louis area Democrats have been found guilty of election crimes in the last 7 months!

http://gatewaypundit.blo...ats-is-new-st-louis.html

#3) Men Get Jail Time In Milwaukee Tire-Slashing Case / A judge admonished a congresswoman's son and three other Democratic campaign workers for interfering with voters' civil rights as he sentenced them to jail Wednesday for puncturing the tires of some Republican vans on Election Day 2004.

http://wfrv.com/topstori...6123954.html?s=wisconsin

AND REMEMBER, THESE DEMOCRATIC SUPPORTERS HAVE BEEN CONVICTED. These are not some wild conspiracy theories, these are CONVICTIONS !!!

Joan #71,I just read a diary on Kos about this bill. The link is to a letter written to Senator Collins before the bill was sent up. It was written by whistleblowers.org because of the loopholes in the bill.http://whistleblowers.org/dearsenatorsrevised.pdf

Even I knows enough to noe that a . . . . "honest republican" ia an . . . OxyMoron

Ok, I'm playing my game now, but it does allow me to check on the denizens here.

OMG, Florida Dave, that rocks. Way to go!

NOW WE ARE HAVING REAL FUN!

Brad's gonna ban you. Do you need to know how to get around that? I'll be happy to help.

If Brad has any honesty at all he won't supress your post, they are all valid things that the Dems have been GUILTY of in the 04 General. And lets not forget the people in New Mexico who were PAID only for Democrat voter registrations.

Ok, Brad. What are you gonna do?

LMAO!

Brad,

While you are here next week (or perhaps earlier), I think you need to do a LTTE response in the Union Tribune to this wingnut staff editorial writer that's trying to depict folks like you and others supporting a count of this election as "fantasists" and "loons"...

earlier editorial

Another...

Yesterday...

cuyahoga county Ohio election workers indicted

Bush campaign manager indicted

voting machine company sales manager indicted

Texas campaign officials indicted

Kentucky GOP officers indicted

Need I say more?

Indictments don't always equate to convictions.

Lets be honest with ourselves and talk about convictions only please. Any idiot prosecutor can get a indictment.

Yes, you do need to say more, since your comments are so woefully inadequate.

Florida Dave Rocks!

"Why haven't any Republican supporters been arrested or convicted for fraud in the 2004 election?"

Actually, several Republican election types have been CONVICTED over the past few years. And, as I recall, the group charged with "random sampling" has been indicted/charged for "rigging the random sample" to avoid a recount in Ohio in 2004..

I can't speak for anyone else here, FL. Dave, but I fully support putting those Dems you list in prison (well, except the tire slashing thing, that's just vandalism and doesn't really warrent "prison", but certianly probation or a little jail time). If you engage in screwing with an election, you should go to prison.. and perhaps lose your right to vote, and perhaps never be allowed to be involved in the electoral process ever again (under threat of prison time). Lock those criminals up!

Now.. are we going to talk about the Repubicans convicted of election crimes over the past few years who are still working for the Republicans? Or perhaps we could talk about all the laws that were violated in Ohio where indictments haven't been handed out for some strange reason, or perhaps the many indictments that WERE handed out?

Or maybe we can get back to the issue of "reliabe election systems", which all the regulars HERE care about? FL. Dave, I've not seen a response to my question about YOUR position on the matter of machines left in people's cars for weeks at a time before the election.. You don't have any concernes about easily hackable machines being left in cars/garages/what have you, for up to a few weeks before the election?

It seems that these trolls recycle themselves under different names. We get "Paul" and "Ricky" and "NCOCDR," then they go away and we get "Florida Dave" and "A (sic) Honest Republican." We never seem to get more than two of them at a time, though.

They also cheer for each other and use the same sophomoric jargon we used to hear in the schoolyard. Their patterns are so similar that either they're taking marching orders from Karl Rove, or they're a couple of young rednecks who have invented a variety of aliases to use.

Here's the deal.

NASED Addendum dated March 22, 2006 entitled Voting System Memory Card Issues requires: "Throughout the life of the voting system, the election official shall maintain control of all memory cards...stored securely at all times..."

It goes on to say "FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH THIS ADDENDUM NEGATES THE VOTING SYSTEM'S STATUS AS A NASED-QUALIFIED VOTING SYSTEM".

So, to follow the logic, the RoV didn't "maintain control...at all times", thus the federal (NASED) qualification is negated, thus the State certification is negated, thus the election was run on equipment deemed unfit due to security violations. I know of no provision in any code allowing for elections to be conducted with non-certified and qualified equipment.

This is almost open and shut - if any court were to see this information, I predict a 99.999% chance of the election being declared invalid and, at the least, a full hand count required. However, you can never tell what a "non-liberal" judge might decide - maybe that it is too inconvenient to be sure it is done right, just so long as it is done (as in "over with").

And all this "liberal"-bashing??? What an effort to distract us from the task at hand - stopping the machines. Stop the morons by ignoring them and just focusing on what has to be done for an open, honest and transparent election process. Those in power never want change - why would they? And they will do everything in their power to keep it. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely!

Post script: In Riverside County, CA, the RoV admitted to loosing 17 memory cartridges between the closing of the polls and the arrival of the cartridges at the central office. I guess you could say she didn't "maintain control of all memory cards". Hmmm. Do over??

RLM #81

Or they are a poorly written Turing Machine based in artificial intelligence. They parse the blog article, then fabricate a post based upon lookup into a database or knowledge base populated from right-wing text.

They use a random lookup to decide which blogger name to use when posting.

RLM #26

The certification I am talking about, and Busby is talking about, is at the county level. As you know, congressional districts tend to run thru many counties as a result of rampant gerrymandering.

When I was exposing this fact on this blog some time back, I had found one congressional district that ran thru 26 counties!!! Some of those counties have several congressional districts going thru them. The counties are cut up in odd shapes.

And I asked the question then, "How would one challenge the results?" ... when 26 counties and therefore 26 different realms of election officialdom would be involved.

A complete recount would cost a candidate the amount 26 times what a candidate in only one county would have to pay.

Anyway, the pollworker misdeeds of taking home voting machines, specifically Diebold, targets only one county as far as I know. In the Busby race.

So challenging the certification of that one county is all that is required, and all that is warranted, since other machines may have been used in other counties, and in other counties the officials may have complied with the law and not allowed poll workers to take the machines home.

In any lawsuit the officials of the county would have to be parties, since it is at that level where the violations happened.

McPherson did not make a statewide rule that it is ok to break the chain of custody and take voting machines home before the election.

That is an event that took place at the county level is it not?

#74 Laura,
I deleted the 'bill.' from the front of your link because it didn't work, but it still won't open for me...I'm going to make a link here & see if that works...

link

For all the trolls who are raising straw man arguments, I offer a link to this thread:

https://bradblog.com/?p=2994

The first two posts debunk your disinformation and lies, and shows that Brad has been very liberal in allowing your posts of disinformation here.

The movie "Outfoxed" explained how Fox Network starts each day with a talking point designed to embarrass liberals and/or support Bush. For example, when Bush is caught lying about torture, or spying, or whatever, Fox will ask its panelists, "Are Democrats divided on this issue?" This is called sophistry, i.e. elevating the secondary question over the primary one, in order to weaken the impact of the more important issue.

It seems that trolls do exactly the same thing. If we argue that the 2000 and 2004 elections were stolen, they'll respond "Democrats stole the Washington governor's race," or "Democrats stole a Senate seat in South Dakota," while at the same time calling us conspiracy theorists or "moonbats" for our own claims. If we point to the massive corruption in Congress, they'll talk about the handful of corrupt Democrats instead of the laundry list of Republican sleazebags.

The similarity between Fox' tactics and our trolls' is so striking that it almost can't be coincidental. There must be a training school for this kind of stuff somewhere; maybe the Rove Institute for Disinformation.

Mr. Mills: Exactly. That's what I've been saying. These trolls are not regular people like us, they are shills. That's why I like to attack and expose them.

Their aim is to disrupt progressive talk by real people, pretending to be "real people" who give fake balance. Their side is lies, and there is no balance to their ridiculous posts.

"Honest Republican" cheers on other fake shill posts, good tactic. Let me suggest some other fake names for you guys:

"Justice For All"

"Honest Florida Republican"

"Let Freedom Ring"

"Oh Say Can You See"

To throw everyone off, "Liberal John"

"Pious Pete" (get a religious one in there)

How about a military one:

"Military Mike" (or HCOCDR)

"Patriotic Paul"

People go to sites and blogs of THEIR interest. That is why we are here. I have zero interest in going on rushlimboob.com , therefore, these guys are shills. You don't go to sites not of your interest.

I don't say, "Hey, I'm gonna drop by rushlimboob.com and see what's going on there."

Florida Dave - Criminal activity, no matter who commits it, is wrong. The investigations into what happened in in 2004 in Ohio are ongoing. Thomas Noe, a big Bush supporter, and his wife, Bernadette, are cooperating with authorities. Stay tuned.

How about, these supposed "different" guys, all complain about getting banned?

It's true, certainly, that all criminal election manipulation should be prosecuted, but we should get real and realize that the examples given by FD are irrelevant and have nothing to do with what we are talking about. They are a diversion, of course.

If the examples of Democratic fraud all that happened in 2004, I suppose it was a pretty good election. There are always some shenanigans.

We are dealing with the potential and (from the evidence) actual massive, democracy-destroying fraud perpetrated by Republicans. It is kind of silly to be talking about run-of-the-mill political corruption.

Big Dan - I read somewhere that Rush Limbaugh is actually a nice guy who doesn't really believe the things he says. He's just performing his schtick because it pays the big bucks. As I tried to find a good radio station one day a while back, there had to be at least 5 of them in my area of North East Ohio alone that were carrying his show. Sad, isn't it?

Looks to me like folks here getting all upset

bout different opionions with some wrong facts But see

. . . . . Intellectual Snobbery, a little anal retentivity & a lack of Humer
. . . even though there is nothing funny about what is going on in this country. . .

"Trolling for the Truth & Tolling for the Sounds of Freedom Crashin" JUDGE OF JUDGES

limbaugh is a drug addict. According to his own pronouncements he should be in jail. He's pathetic, but rich enough to buy a GetOutOfJailFree card. And righties look up to this despicable man. Sad.

COMMENT #87 [Permalink]
... Robert Lockwood Mills said on 6/24/2006 @ 7:23 am PT...

"The similarity between Fox' tactics and our trolls' is so striking that it almost can't be coincidental. There must be a training school for this kind of stuff somewhere; maybe the Rove Institute for Disinformation."

This is who trained Rove, Gannon et al

The Leadership Institute and an article about them Link

Joan

Amazing how rusty III (the turd) still has an audience with so little credabillity!
It's CONTINUITY, Familiarity & anger etc...

Unfortunately the quantity of Justice is directly proportional to the size of the bank acount. . . . . nothing new & I hope this will change or atleast improve in my lifetime . . .

Joan Have you heard Donavans version of "Universal Soldier" ?

JOJ #100

Bling Bling, you hit the magic 100 mark!

Floridiot #99

You always provide excellent links! And thanks!

#100 JoJ,
No, I've only heard the Buffy version...didn't know Donovan ever did it. I'll look for it, thanks. A great song.

TLV #96 said:

"I read somewhere that Rush Limbaugh is actually a nice guy who doesn't really believe the things he says"

When he was a local entity here used to believe that was true. He liked to spout off to get a good debate going with people calling in.
Once he went national I'm not so sure any more - I think a lot of it has gone to his head. He now seems to hold court over a one sided realm.

JoJ & J

Donovan

Buffy

Poor video quality - excellent song. Wait thru the fluff for Buffy.

Three of my favorite troll quotes!

"A lie is only a lie if you believe it's a lie!"

"Of course we stole it and we'll steal it again!"

"Moran"

Joan Thanks, I cannot link and I can't figure out how to do it!

OT - Yes, the subject of trolls is OT. I'm kinda draggin' behind everyone in the postings - just the way my time's going and the gd 26,400 bps dialup (which is a perpetual problem). I can't sit here all day.

I agree with Des and Joan and (I think) JOJ about trolls. If it's a Rovian scheme, I don't think it is a very smart one. Not only are trolls shown clearly to be foolish, the give and take points casual readers to good information in the process of watching a circus act. I would bet that most of the people coming to BB because of curiosity or even just happening onto the site tend to stay a bit longer when there is a show going on, whereas a site allowing only discussion of knowlegable people would turn off many casual readers.

I'm not advocating a troll-fest. I'm just saying that Brad's policy is about as good as it can be, and trolls (if they don't stay too long) may actually serve a purpose.

Am I wrong?

I love the Freedom of Bradblog, it reminds me of America . . . . . Before it jumped the shark. . .

Thank You, Bluebear2

Yes, Donovan, one of my main men in the '60's.

ARRY - Yes, You hit the nail on the Head @ 26,400 bps! ! !

Well, it's true that intrusions by trolls can liven things up a bit, give people a chance to trot out their links to viable sources, and generally give a more multi-cultural flavor to the threads, but disinformation, really puerile "comments", mean-spirited bloviating and such like can seriously offend visitors. A balance needs to be struck.

For my part, I know there lies ahead a lot of very serious work, and very serious brain-storming, many long, hard hours for those of us who want the right things to come of our opposition to the criminality spreading throughout our country like wildfire. We have to try to stay as fresh as possible while bearing a very heavy load on our spirits. So some fun, some rest and a lot of genuine exchange of ideas and opinions is the way to "git 'er done" here, friends.

99

Big Dan

"Their aim is to disrupt progressive talk by real people, pretending to be "real people" who give fake balance."

Exactly right here Dan. They are giving you all little opportunity go get on with the nuts and bolts of working out what to do and how. Taking the attention away from the issue also blocks your thinking process and you might not see what the other side is up to behind that smoke screen on other issues. They've got your mind too busy arguing the same points over and over. They have got the mind of the reader in the same place. Perhaps a separate thread for dissent would be an idea keeping main threads for open for action?

I'm changing my name to "Declaration of Independence Dan". As far as the topic, Busby, is she screaming for a hand recount, and making a stink like the Republicans do in a close contest, which I respect them for by the way? The people of San Diego have got to hit the streets...the mayoral election had a non-partisan group run a parallel exit poll in San Diego, which showed the typical sway towards the GOP (as usual) from the electronic machine count. What ever became of that? Nothing. San Diego, twice now.

Sally, did you ever think, that not responding to a troll is exactly the type of thinking that does our side in all the time? Conceding close elections without making a stink, etc... Leaving misinformation out there without repsonding to it, then people read the misinformation and lies with no repsonse disputing it. That is the MSM! Ignore the trolls leaves "unresponded to" misinformation for all to read. I'm for banning trolls, they have their sites for all the misinformation they want. They come here (and Raw Story, etc...) and post lies and misinformation HOPING it won't be pointed out that it is lies and misinformation. Maybe mediamatters.org should pack it in and disregard disputing lies and misinformation in the MSM???

Example: If a troll posts "Republicans are not for amnesty for the insurgents", and they are speaking out for it, and no one here disputes it, someone reads it and thinks "Republicans are not for amnesty for the insurgents, because I don't see anyone on this progressive site disputing it." The trolls DO NOT WANT ANYONE TO DISPUTE THEIR LIES AND INFORMATION. They want you to ignore them, but leave their misinformation in print on this site.

Some trolls want attention, and never get it until they go negative.

Some trolls want to obfuscate righteous information that threatens their inner senses of righteousness.

Some trolls are troopers sent to make a mess of "the other side".

Some trolls are just basic dumbos who can't stand seeing information that is at variance with what they've learned to think from the media, their peers and other personal influences.

Some trolls are little kids enjoying the heck out of irritating adults.

Some trolls may well be "public servants" blowing off steam against their antagonists.

Some trolls, obviously, have stakes in companies that don't want the truth to get out about their products.

Someone who simply, honestly, respectfully disagrees is not a troll.

Dan
Dispelling the spin does need to be done and you are the people to do it. But maybe on a separate thread so it won't have to be done over and over. It would also make it easier to delete some of the completely pointless insults. But I guess if people don't read that thread then the spin the general public have already heard via the MSM etc is still there in people's minds.
This is a very curly problem you have with some not so bright but very persistant trolls. We have the same sort of people here who know they are talking rubbish but just want to dominate and disrupt everyone else.

I'm of two minds re ignoring/not ignoring trolls, banning/not banning...(what can I say, I'm a Libra)
I went to one of their links today & thought "Wow, what a crappy, biased article!", so that was useful. They do sometimes provide a kind of comic relief (I don't know whether they try to type too fast or whether they are just really bad at sentence construction & spelling).

They CAN hijack the discussion, though, if too many of us try to engage them. It's frustrating to read some threads where people explain things thoughtfully & patiently over & over & then you see none of it has penetrated in the least.

#104 THANKS, BLUEBEAR!!
Oh man, was that ever a blast from the past...gave me goosebumps.
I'd never heard Donovan sing that, but it was great. I do prefer the Buffy version, maybe because I was used to it, or maybe? because she SO kicks ass! I love her & her tremolo

As you know quite well the lame coorporate media is to blame for most of this.
Debunking disinfo would not be necessary if they had been doing their job. Infact most likely this whole site would'nt be here but for them (MSM) and the Democrats who proceded to an election that was not verifable. I saw this happening from the other side of the world and I'm noooo genius. I can't even spell very well. Kerry is an intellegent man so you can't tell me he didn't know what would most likely happen with voting machines and no proper records. I just cannot believe the democrats did'nt know what was about to happen then later what had happened.

#106 Laura,
I hesitate to try & tell anyone how to do anything because I'm still such a computer-novice...but I can just tell you what I've been doing to post links, which is easy & seems to work ok:
I copy a URL, then click on 'link' above the comment box, delete the http:// which appears in the address bar, & then paste in the URL. Then I type the word 'link'. You can check in the preview box to see if it looks right. That works for me.
*If I'm doing something wrong, somebody please let me know!
"Springsteen mocks 'idiots' like Coulter"

link

Oooh, sorry, that was way off-topic. Darn. Apologies.

Joan #122, Thanks again I'll give it a try

#111 - Agent99 - Well said. A balance is what is needed. The "art" of blogging. In this case, let's face it, we are, along with Brad, pioneering a new form of politics - constitutional, democratic politics of the internet age. (Politics is an art - wish the MS Dems would realize this well-known fact and put less emphasis on triangulation and the advice of so-called experts.)

You said, So some fun, some rest and a lot of genuine exchange of ideas and opinions is the way to "git 'er done" here, friends.

True and very sane words. (I would expect nothing less from "99"). I'll drink to them (a cold lemonade today). Hot enough for you Bluebear2?

Let me rephrase that parenthetical sentence --- I wish the MS Dems would step aside and let those with some committment to progressive and creative politics take their places. I've met many fine progressive Dems this year who are rarin' to go.

Arry

A chilly 101 today - Better yesterday at 109! LOL
At least it cools to the 60's over night.

Fan Power

I sort of hijacked this topic, but no one disputes the "big trolls" in the MSM, like the Novak's, Coulters, Limboob's, Hannity's, FOX new's...THAT is why indy media started to flourish. Brad, Raw Story, are indy media. It's to get out the real message, unspoiled. The "big trolls" took over the MSM. So what did we do, we who see what's going on? We go here to indy media. The trolls, big and small, say, "hey, they're going over there now"...so they come here. They know we stopped watching MSM news, and we wouldn't be caught dead on rushlimboob.com . So, they go, "hey, they're getting the real news OVER THERE now, let's go THERE and spread some lies and misinformation, like when we took over the MSM. BUT...indy media is private, private people, private donations. Like LINK-TV and FSTV. THEY CANNOT INFILTRATE IT, UNLESS YOU ALLOW THEM TO!!!

Trolls are given an unabated forum in the MSM without being challengeg by the reporters. They are allowed to spout lies and disinformation and not get called on it, not get called a liar. But not in indy media!!! That is why you must dispute a troll on indy media, if the troll is left to freely print lies and disinformation. Unless, they are banned. And I'm not talking about regular disagreement, don't get confused. You and I know who the trolls are. And they will multiply HERE in indy media, if allowed.

Ask yourself, do you regularly go on sites that have an agenda opposed to yours, daily, and fight with them? Actually, you go HERE to get away from the liars, right?

We have some troll disagreement issues (LOL)...How about we charge them a "troll" to post here? Nothing? Not funny? sorry.........

I neglected to mention a very important point...if I went over to rushlimboobcom with my views, I would be BANNED from rushlimboob.com. They do it right. They fight close elections, they ban people with dissenting opinions, legitimate dissenting opinions. I'm not talking about LIES and MISINFORMATION, I'm talking about an opposing OPINION. I'm not for banning someone with an opposing opinion, I think it's great. I'm for banning LIES & MISINFORMATION. That's legitimate, that's NOT what the MSM is doing.

Heh, Arry: I'm grumbling to myself about it being 80 degrees in my very north coast home right now... practically nekkid... windows wide open, and poor Agent BB2 is having to bundle up since it's dropped to 100!

Thanks for your solidarity.

I've been wishing all day that we could interest Steve Jobs in building us some unhackable voting machines. Not only would the quality be better, but the integrity would much more likely be better. Apple wouldn't want their reputation besmirched. There are more than a few places we could turn for viable systems, machines that would both immediately count the vote and generate a punched card confirmation the voter could slip in the ballot box on the way out. No need to hook to the internet, instant results, and hand countable paper ballots that could be counted by anybody until the paper wore down to its constituent atoms.

That would set us right up for Instant Runoff Voting, like some of the people here want to see in the future, as well. We oughta just sue the pants off all these creeps and give the money to Jobs to produce something AMERICAN for us. Something like that....

big dan

It's interesting how they call themselves compassionate
yet they purge and censor everything and display nothing but greed.
On the other hand we don't lay claim to compassion yet practice it by letting them come around and have their say.

What's the quote I'm looking for? Something to the affect of "He who proclaims the loudest posseses the least" - you get the point I don't remember the exact words.

99 - have you seen my mukluks?

By thousands of complaints christofascists will abuse sponsors of Progressive shows. That can work 2 ways 2

. . . . . with a little or·gan·i·za·tion . . .

TROLLS RULE !!!

And we won't be stopped. Commies would like to silence us Trolls, but it won't happen.

WE WILL TAKE OVER !!!

{{Or. Not.}}

Aw, geez, BB2, you didn't leave them on Agent DLC when they air-lifted him out today, did you? That ass is back at the HQ barn, eating everything that isn't nailed down! Build a fire!

#132 correction . . . . . with a LOT of or·gan·i·za·tion . . .

I agree with you, Big Dan, about banning misinformation, although I think it should be clear what the trolls are doing and we should call them on it (as you point out). We should also make it clear what misinformation is out there because the MSM and trolls spread the same stuff all over.

For example, if a troll says that Bush fairly won the 2000 election (or 2004) and posts some right-wing bullshit, we need to show why it is bullshit because, as we do it, we are clearing up something much more widespread than simply a troll's posting on Brad Blog and doing a real service of informing. Who knows who will be reading Brad Blog? I don't claim to be good at such informing. Many folks here are good at it. (Maybe because I have such a slow connection and it takes so much time to get around the internet, I tend to focus on reasoning flaws and goddamned stupidity! Herd stupidity is what's really bringing down our nation, so I am passionately anti-dumb.)

All of which probably takes us into a swamp of "what do we do"... and I'm probably painting myself into a corner. I have a headache.

I did want to mention that in my post #125, I am using the word "political" in a wide and non-disparaging way. (Everything political is often looked upon as disreputable.) As all true Americans believe that citizens matter and should be in ultimate control of the political process, all true American citizens should be by nature political and informed. Brad Bloggers are right in there putting political power back where it belongs. At least, that's the goal, I think.

To ease back on topic...Good luck with the town meetings. Brad "Sam Adams" Friedman in action. You're awesome, Brad. I wish I could see those historic town meetings in person. One day I will get in the car, travel a few hundred miles to L.A., and shake your hand. I might even buy you lunch (assuming you ever stop long enough to eat.)

Let me change that to I will buy you lunch (assuming you ever stop long enough to eat.)

Agent99 --- ...and no proprietary software!!

As you can probably tell my my rambling posts, I'm kinda delirious today. I'm up the hill from BB2, and it feels like I'm in a pottery kiln. I'll get used to it, I guess. I do every year, but I remember the days when I lived in Arcata and Trinidad (CA) when 75 or 80 degrees brought out the shorts and fans and ice cream.

I also remember how I'd be driving up Highway 101 through the stifling inland heat and would then hit that ocean breeze and cool layer of fog when I got near the coast - It was heaven on earth. All life returned and I felt like (and usually did) yell..."Yahoo!! Redwood country...my home!"

Sheesh...talk about off-topic. This is ridiculous. I'll be better tomorrow. Sweet dreams.

http://www.huffingtonpos...m-of-dems-f_n_23726.html

Here I go again!

The news is way off key. There was the recent meeting of the gang at Camp David. After which they walked out for the Press to ogle them. Rumsfeld was almost twitching, as he was far too hyper, more than just being happy he had his diaper on. Bush, front and center, was in the ready to slap leather and grab his 6-guns stance, even though it was not high noon. At least here it wasn’t. Then he, contrary to his body language, said he was tired and needed to go read, or something to that effect. Shortly thereafter, he left in a different helicopter to go board his AF1 for his secret jaunt over to Iraq. We got to see a photo of him leering through the cockpit as if it were the Redo of “Mission Accomplished.”

There was the Rove boy turning on the pr machine first via Luskin saying that Fitzgerald did not anticipate charging Rove with a crime. Fitzgerald has made no public statement on that particular matter of which I am aware. Since that time, we have read black is white; white is black; no, no, no, white is black; black is white!

I especially enjoyed watching “The Dark Side” on PBS, where the former
CIA folk had their say on the most fabulous documentary, since the first Ken Burns series. In it they “K.O.’d” Dick Cheney, et al, big time. There were wonderful news clips where Cheney was on the MSM talk shows, boasting about his secret government, and their need for secrecy (so to speak). If you missed that, go to pbs.com and check to see when you can view it next.

Then, here is a lovely piece. It is about the Bush administration is pushing ahead with a plan to create a North American union with Canada and Mexico, called - Security and Prosperity Partnership of North America which was actually SIGNED in 2005. Congress hadn’t been consulted, nor we the American people. It is said to have been on the White House’s web site though no one paid any attention to it.

Read June 21, 2006 transcript at: http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/ldt.html

I tell you, any thing they say is not to be trusted. With all the exposure they have had recently, they are in a real hurry to stay the course to their embassy the size of the Vatican, and the 16 bases, and turning our airlines over to other countries, and our ports as well.

The current administration has no concern for the citizens of our beloved country, the United States of America. There is no way you could visualize such a fantasy from their actions. They have already robbed our Treasury. Who’s ready for what they do next? Are you going to vote for them? Go look at your self in the mirror if you plan to let the Secretaries of State who control these elections, use Diebold, ES&S, whatever, control who you vote for by using those machines where there is no paper trail, and YOUR vote can be changed by a technician to suit the fearless leaders. Read: www.bradblog.com, to get educated about election fraud. You’ll find everything you want to know there.

Building tomorrows Fascists, today
a field trip to the CIA builds character

Great. Floridiot! Just what I needed. I've been freaking about the latest news that 7000 high school students are dropping out each day in this country, and now I get to see how the "winners" are priming their kids. I think it was Jack Cafferty with the big news about the drop-out rates.

21% of Detroit's high school students do not graduate on time!

Do you think it's because they're getting scholarships to the Lott Leadership Institute early? Probably not.

By the way, the comment I posted above (#139) was made By: Coreesa on June 25, 2006 at 12:20am ET on Huffington Post.

Lindy - Ya think bush was sitting on the pilots lap when he was . . . . . "leering through the cockpit" ? ? ?

Arry

Good morning. Yes. Jobs would do it with no proprietary software. He would see to it that America got righteous voting machines... and Al Gore is on his board of directors, and he'd make doubly sure there was no hanky panky. I feel this to be true. I feel that everyone, of all parties, could get behind a voting system brought to us by people we know like we know these men. They can't skulk around under the radar because they are so famous.

I used to "have to" live in Auburn, and every summer I had to spend IN the Yuba River in order to live through the ordeal. Not exactly productive, but very pleasant. So I swore off killing myself for money and got my ass home to the redwoods and the ocean, even if I have to starve.

You be the Judge of THAT one! Thanks for the laugh!

Has anyone gone to Black box voting recently? Bev is in the process of putting together a hand count voter registry. Go take a look and if you can sign up. She wants to set up volunteers from all over the country to hand count the votes.This may be the answer we're looking for. I think its a great idea.I'm going to sign up and I hope you'll think about it and sign up too.

"Then he, contrary to his body language, said he was tired and needed to go read, or something to that effect."

Am I imagining it or has Bush seemed unaturally confident lately. In older newsclips he always seemed bumbling and not that good at expressing himself. So what drug can boost confidence like that?

The only one I can think of is "P". I guess he maybe secretly chanting. "I love and approve of Bushie" " "I am a good dictator and America loves me" but he could not do this for long without the self induced phycosis that drugs would afford him.

I'm not up on drugs much though if the world goes facist with no escape have decided to drown happily in Blackberry Vodka, Happy pills and anything that blocks it out till I get outa here. Thatl piss the christofacists off and upsetting them will give me a purpose in life.

I'll help you all give them a good fight first though and we will wipe that "P"(psychosis)indced confident grin off Bushes face

Arry - I'll take the free lunch! Despite the fact I hear there is no such thing. And yes, despite the fact that I can't recall the last time I was able to stop for lunch.

This article puts a few more questions in my noggin

Wellstone and Durbin were fighting to actually have a TRW weapon tested before it was deployed, then we have a plane crash later for one ?

Lott and Lockheed with the latter funding a Dick Clark emceed sock hop for Lott ?

Lynne Cheney on the board of Lockheed

Interesting stuff link

Dredd, RLM & Everyone, I think you will thorougly enjoy reading this little conference transcript
It displays all the actors in getting the "coordinated message out" to the press and the World
Good stuff if you have the time to read
link

#144 - Agent99 --- Very OT --- I may be joining you in redwood country soon. We used to say - and it really seemed to be true --- that once a person lived there, he or she might be gone for years or even decades but would eventually come back.

Now I know first hand what we were talking about. I hear the redwoods calling ...or is it the the varied thrushes that sound like disembodied spirits calling to each other high in the redwoods amidst the (otherwise) palpable silence?

Arry

A man at the Historical Society in Nevada City once told me that farmers in the Central Valley still come up with redwood roots when drilling wells. According to some foresters I know, not only all of California, even into Arizona and Nevada, but the planet, was once covered with redwoods. Between climatic changes and human deforestation, we have SO little left. The Sahara and the Gobi were once, very long ago, forests. They are deserts now because humans cut down all the trees. There is science out there that shows that weather will follow the forests, that they actually attract the fog and rain that keeps them alive.

We've got CO2 in an extremely "inconvenient" abundance. I wonder if we could start planting trees like crazy, along with cutting the burning of fossile fuels, and manage to slow or reverse the global warming.

This is about voting. This is about election fraud. These are the kinds of things at stake when we vote. One thing I can say for certain is that, without the SCOTUS intervention in 2000, we would right now be feeling a lot better about our chances against this cataclysm staring us in the face, and we'd be blessed with the life force, the vitality, humans get when engaged in manifesting positive intent. We all know that's not what's manifesting now!

Make sure every chance you get, tell people to watch LINK-TV & FSTV!!! No lies, no misinformation, no corporate money, no commercials, no government money. Indy media on TV! It's here, we just have to change our TV viewing habits.

ATTN: All Trolls in Calif.

I will be flying in to infiltrate the meeting San Diego. Anyone who is interested in going and seeing just what "Nutjobs" these liberals are, meet me at the IN-N-OUT Burger in Oceanside at 5pm. The address is 4605 Frazee.

I will be in a black Cadillac (rental) and I will have on khaki shorts and white polo with the Univ. of Miami logo on it. We will throw down a "double double" and then off the freak show.

This is going to be great. See you at IN-N-OUT in Oceanside.

Dave, I just spoke to the manager of In-and-out Burger. He believes in honest elections.

Save your plain fare.

All right, Brad --- you get a free lunch when I can get down there.

Agent99 said ...wonder if we could start planting trees like crazy... That has been suggested and will probably be a vital element in a multifaceted plan. Of course, everything has to shift to sustainability, which is a major shift of society. It is a threat to privileged power - but facts are facts and we can't negotiate with fools who are too stupid to distinguish between their privileged status and lifestyles and what's real and right.

Voting has to be fixed. Healthy democracy actually promotes and fits in well with sustainability, IMO...It's hypocritical and basically undemocratic blocks of power and wealth that are blind to individuals and to the facts of living on the earth.

Those who say voting doesn't matter, it's all corporate control and manipulation anyway, are indulging in the fantasy that nothing changes, that what we see now is some kind of eternal way of being when, in fact, corporate society as it manifests itself today is on very shaky ground from many reasons, contrary to conventional wisdom. (It is to its own benefit to promote the fantasy of permanence.)

Buiding a sustainable and healthy society doesn't have to be grim. It should be a great undertaking that gives meaning, health, and community of purpose to citizens. Whether or not it will happen is another question. But it could. Anyone who says it can't is in a self-built prison of limited perception and creativity.

Hear, hear, Arry! "Self-built prisons!"

Everyone is for honest elections, except Dems/Libs. Why would only Dems/Libs be against someone having to present a photo ID to vote?

Everyone has a photo ID. You can't do anything without a photo ID ... and if someone doesn't have a photo ID then they have to be too stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

I like how Canada does their voting. When you send in your tax returns, then the Canadian Gov't sends you a voting card for that year. And when you go to vote, they keep the card. That way, only those who pay taxes are allowed to vote. Could you imagine the outrage from the Democrats & Liberals if we proposed that here in the USA?

The Libs/Dems would be outraged ... why? BECAUSE THEN THEY WOULDN'T BE ABLT TO CHEAT !!

Someone Just shit on the Floor here & . . . . . It stinks . . .

Everyone has a photo ID. You can't do anything without a photo ID … and if someone doesn't have a photo ID then they have to be too stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Any sane person who fights for fair elections does so because of statements like this.

Only Republicans put up roadblocs to voting. The ONLY party that does so. Anything EVER introduced to make voting HARDER, is introduced by the REPUBLICANS!!!

Everyone EXCEPT the Republicans are trying to make voting EASIER!!!!!!!! They know the only way they can win is by fraud, fraud on e-vote machines made by their donors, disenfranchising voters, and setting up roadblocks to make voting harder.

THE LESS PEOPLE WHO VOTE, THE BETTER FOR REPUBLICANS!!!

Here are examples of eligible voters who would not logically have a photo ID:

1) Elderly people confined to nursing homes
2) Anyone who doesn't drive a car or fly on planes
3) Blind people
4) People with handicaps/birth defects
5) Anyone whose wallet or purse was lost or stolen

These are people a troll said were stupid and shouldn't be allowed to vote. Of course, these same trolls think Hurricane Katrina was the fault of people who couldn't leave town for whatever reason.