For months supporters and critics alike have been requesting that Clint Curtis take a polygraph test to help shore up (or debunk) the veracity of his explosive sworn allegations that then-Florida State Senator (and Speaker of the House) Tom Feeney, now a U.S. Congressman from Florida’s 24th District, asked Curtis to create an electronic vote-rigging software prototype back in 2000 when Curtis worked at Yang Enterprises Inc. (YEI) where Feeney was also the corporate counsel and registered lobbyist in his “non-conflicting” day job while working as Florida’s Speaker of the House.
Curtis has now taken — and passed — the much requested lie-detector test as discussed here Saturday and as broken in a one-sided, unbalanced and unfortunate story by Lucy Morgan, the Pulitzer Prize winning investigative Tallahassee Bureau Chief for The St. Petersburg Times.
While Morgan was handed this rather hot and exclusive scoop over a month ago, just after Curtis took and passed the test on March 3rd, her investigative work since then on this admittedly complicated and very broad case — stretching back through at least four years of public and private paper trails — resulted in an astonishingly amateurish piece which serves as a fine piece of pro-Feeney propoganda, a smackdown of the courageous and so-far verified claims of Clint Curtis and — finally, though less importantly — a slap in the face to the hard work we’ve toiled at here for over five months.
Her article, inappropriately and condescendingly headlined “Blogs spin tale of computers, conspiracies” is loaded with countless points of misleading information, crucial omissions and out and out inaccuracies.
Given our (apparently overly generous) offer to fact-check and/or advise and/or supply Morgan with any and all of the copious documentation and public records and hard evidence we’ve amassed over our past six months of reporting on this matter coupled with Morgan’s impressive credentials and experience, we were somewhat stunned to read the fruits of her efforts on Saturday when the story finally appeared in The SP Times.
As we are still somewhat at a disadvantage by being on the road for the moment (still in Nashville at the National Election Reform Conference), we’ll have to do our best to speak to Morgan’s many unfortunate errors and lack of apparent journalistic standards without access to our complete file of evidence. Nonetheless, we’ll do our best to point out what we would have pointed out to Morgan had she bothered to run any of this by us before going to press.
Given also that she found it necessary to include us in the story for inexplicable reasons — other than perhaps to try and discredit the entire affair as a “conspiracy theory” of some sort — it seems as though it would have been appropriate to check many of these facts with us and/or at least give us the opportunity to comment on several of the unsupported charges she makes in her piece.
But alas, that seems to be the way of the Mainstream Media these days; Belittle and discredit the stories that they should have been reporting in the first place by suggesting that a story presented on a web log couldn’t possibly hold the veracity of something reported by the MSM.
On that note, we’ll simply mention that after over six months of investigating and reporting on the Clint Curtis story, we’ve not once had to issue a notable retraction or correction to any of our work. Whereas one single article from Morgan includes enough misinformation for an entire column’s worth of retractions, corrections and clarifications.
We had hoped to extend the courtesy to Morgan that she didn’t feel necessary to extend to either Curtis or us in order to give her the opportunity to explain herself and her many omissions, misleads and apparent lack of both “balance” and fact-checking in her story.
Morgan’s response to our invitation to comment today: “I have no interest in commenting on your story, you can publish that I have two heads if you want.”
We have no interest in publishing that Morgan has two heads, since that would be misleading and untruthful as far as we can tell. We do have an interest in publishing facts however, in a fair way, while correcting those who seem to display a problem in doing so themselves.
So to that end, let’s take a look at a few of the most egregious distortions, errors, misleads and omissions in Morgan’s unfortunate article…
After the “Blogs spin tale of computers, conspiracies” headline, Morgan follows quickly with the first of UNSUPPORTED and INACCURATE MISDIRECTS:
Morgan refers to “some Internet Web sites that traffic in conspiracy theories”, but mentions only The BRAD BLOG in her text, so we’ll guess she’s referring to us with a dismissive, broad and unsupported brush.
Never mind the condescending suggestion that we “traffic in conspiracy theories”, despite our exhaustively hard-fought reputation for reporting only verifiable and confirmable information. Credibility, we realize, is everything in this game.
Never mind also that we’ve never said that anything “proves the elections really were stolen” on this blog.
The most disturbing part of that second paragraph in her article is that — in one fell swoop –she manages to discount and/or discredit the many non-blog, newsprint publications (such as The New Times Broward-Palm Beach, The Seminole Chronicle, The Moscow Times and even her own St. Petersburg Times(!) along with many others) who have covered this story since we first broke its first chapter here on December 6th, 2004.
Onto the next MISLEADING OMISSION…Wherein Morgan discusses the vote-flipping software which Curtis claims he was asked to create:
The implication apparently being that Curtis is making a claim that he cannot support since, after all, he failed to keep a copy of the software he swears he had written for the company.
What Morgan leaves out is Curtis’ oft-given explanation for not having kept such a copy. Namely, that YEI was a secure facility! As anyone who has ever worked in such an industry realizes, leaving the building with software created on-site is strictly forbidden! As Curtis seems to have a long demonstrated penchant for following the rules, he has explained on many occassions that he would never have attempted to illicitly remove software from the building.
One would think that’s an important point to mention when casually implying that Curtis should have kept a copy of the vote-rigging prototype he says that he wrote on company time.
And then Morgan continues her apparent theme of sniffing it all away as a “conspiracy theory” which should be disregarded, by allowing Feeney one direct quote after another allowing him to discredit Curtis at will. She does so even while failing to providing a single direct quote by Curtis himself or giving him a chance to reply, refute or comment upon Feeney’s obnoxiously dismissive comments.
Here’s one such obnoxiously dismissive Feeney comment which Curtis was not allowed reply to:
Mission accomplished.
Morgan has allowed Feeney, a proven (and well-documented) liar, to inappropriately ridicule an American Citizen and whistleblower who has risked his life and that of his family for over 4 years in an apparent pursuit of nothing more than justice. Only to his allegations — not a single one of which has been disproven, while most have indeed since been proven as accurate — belittled by a powerful sitting member of the U.S. House of Representatives as little more than the insane conspiratorial ravings of a lunatic. All done with the “credible” imprimatur of a major American newspaper.
How many lies and inaccuracies is Morgan actually able to show Curtis has made during his four years of whistleblowing? And how many lies and inaccuracies has her “investigation” shown Feeney, Yang and their attorneys to be responsible for?
Compare them, and let us know if the number of Feeney and Yang prevarications don’t bury the number of Curtis’ (which are so far zero!) under a mountain.
She’s also managed to discredit — without evidence, just with slur — an apparently very patriotic American citizen in the bargain.
Would it have made any difference if she had either known or reported that Curtis had until only recently been a life-long Republican? Especially given her implications that it is only Democrats who have been supporting Curtis’ allegations?
(PERSONAL NOTE TO MS. MORGAN: Had you bother to ask us, we would have told you that we are not Democrats either…but facts can be annoyingly disruptive to apparently pre-conceived perceptions.)
Of course, she continues quoting Feeney (only):
Aha! Now perhaps we’re getting an idea of Morgan’s preconceptions a bit!
If Morgan has done so little investigation into the facts that she is able to simply slough off thousands of proven allegations of “voting irregularities in 2004” by dismissing them as “unproven”, then it’s little wonder she’d be unable to decipher the more complicated and proven facts in the Curtis case.
For the record, we’d point Morgan to these 102 pages of evidence proving election irregularities in 2004 (and those are only some from Ohio alone!) as prepared by the minority staff of the U.S. House Judiciary committee.
We’d also be delighted if she would bother to review the much shorter, but equally compelling, description of proven “voting irregularities” as compiled in an article by Bush supporter Christopher Hitchens.
We hope and pray she’ll be able to find a few proven allegations in any of those documents.
Now back to more important OMISSIONS in her story:
They certainly did. And, as she must know by now, the contract referred to above with the Florida Dept. of Transportation was terminated by FDOT as a result of the investigation launched after allegations first made by Clint Curtis!
It would have been thoughtful to mention that point in Morgan’s article.
And then Morgan returns to the MISDIRECTS…or something…concerning Raymond Lemme, the investigator from the Florida Inspector General’s office who died in what Valdosta, GA police described as a suicide. It was a case that received a great deal of attention on this website due to the myriad inconsistencies found in the official police report and the photographs taken at the scene which were said not to have existed in that same police report, but which are posted online here nonetheless:
Presuming that the unnamed DOT officials told police, as Morgan claims, that the investigation was completed when Lemme died — in July 2003 — did she bother to wonder why that “completed” report was not published until for another full year and a half? Not until February of 2005?
The reasons for such a long delay in the report for a supposedly “completed” investigation certainly would have piqued our attention. It may even have made wonder if FDOT was reallyl giving us the whole truth and nothing but the truth for their explanation and dismissal of any concerns over the timing of Raymond Lemme’s death. Particularly since Clint Curtis claims that Lemme had, only weeks before, told him that he’d tracked the corruption “all the way to the top”? Even more particularly since the final FDOT report confirmed almost all of the allegations that Curtis is shown to have originally made to Lemme back in 2001!
Now for some even more SERIOUS MISLEADS:
At least that’s a new piece of information. And it certainly may be one way to look at what Curtis has said on this matter.
However, had she bothered to check her facts for accuracy and actually quoted Curtis in reply to this matter, he might have told her what he told us yesterday when we asked him about the inference made above.
After YEI learned of his employment at FDOT, Curtis was threatened by Yang’s Attorneys — at “Fowler, Barice, FEENEY & O’Quinn” — with a lawsuit which suggested he was under some form of a non-compete clause that disallowed him from working at FDOT even though he had long since resigned on good terms from YEI. The threat letter didn’t charge him with wrong doing. It simply threatened him.
As well, Curtis claims to have been offered a $1 Million package by YEI and Feeney to work “anywhere but Tallahassee” (that information is also in Lemme’s original report if one bothers to read it) when the company “seemed to have panicked for some unexplained reason,” as Curtis described it to us, when YEI learned that he was then working at FDOT.
Curtis explained, “I might have never filed any complaint, because I probably wouldn’t have even bothered to look to see if there was any wrongdoing until they alerted me with their threats and bribes. They alerted me that there was a problem. Had they not, I would have never noticed anything was wrong!”
That description from Curtis would seem to be paint an entirely different picture than the one Morgan seems to use to imply that Curtis was being vindictive, or something, against YEI.
Heavy MISLEADING and OMISSION is next up:
Actually, DOT investigators concluded, after it was confirmed for them by Federal Officials, that, in fact, Nee was illegally in the country as of January 1, 2000. Again, it’s in the FDOT’s report. All one has to do is read it.
What DOT investigators did conclude, however, was that since the Weekly Time Reports on YEI stationery, signed by Nee and submitted to FDOT (several of which we published here back in December) were all dated prior to January 1, 2000, when Nee still had legal status in the country, that they didn’t have the grounds to terminate their contract with YEI on that basis alone.
Of course, there has been ample evidence, such as email from at least four different YEI employees — including Nee himself! – which demonstrates that Nee worked at YEI during the period when Curtis was also employed at YEI, and as well, at the time Curtis made his complaints to FDOT in 2001 about Nee’s employement at Yang.
This “Internet Web site that traffic[s] in conspiracy theories” posted several of those emails from multiple sources about five months ago.
As well, the FDOT report confirms the same. Yet despite all of that, their CEO Mrs. Yang, still denies that Hai Lin “Henry” Nee ever worked for YEI as either employee or consultant! She reportedly did so again as recently as three weeks ago in a sworn deposition taken in the FDOT’s case against Mavis Georgalis in which the Yangs are reported to be the prosecution’s only witness.
The irresponsible OMISSIONS continue:
Just “making false statements” and fined $100 for it. Never mind the FACTS that Nee, who worked for YEI where Tom Feeney was the chief Corporate Counsel, is documented in his official plea agreement with the Feds, as we reported in December exclusively — with documentation — that Nee admitted “it was a slow year” so they only shipped such anti-tank missile chips to the People’s Republic of China “ten to twenty times” in the past year!
After a four year sting by the Homeland Security department, that would seem to be a fairly serious crime. More so than the “admitted making false statements to federal authorities and was fined $100” would seem to imply.
And then Morgan simply gets a fact WRONG:
Actually, Curtis complained about Nee to the Florida Inspector General’s office in May of 2001. Long before there was any public information about a secret sting operation to arrest Nee and long before Federal officials admitted that Nee was an illegal alien. And, of course, long before Nee was actually arrested in March of 2004.
Morgan’s implication there is just terribly misleading. We’re quite sure Mr. Feeney is quite happy about that.
Morgan then returns to the MISLEADS and OMISSIONS with this:
While we’re curious what sort of software Mrs. Yang is actually an expert in, we’re also disappointed that Morgan has notably not bothered to point out Feeney’s repeated statements that he’s not been involved with the Yang’s since he went to the U.S. House in 2002. Those inaccurate claims of his were made even while his 2004 Campaign Headquarters remained in the YEI Building itself, and even while the Yangs threw him a private reception in May of 2003 at the Atayal Foundation. Both such facts were made available through articles and photographs linked on the not-quite-so-conspiratorial-after-all BRAD BLOG.
A repeated OMISSION now:
We’re not sure what state contracts YEI may still be getting, but we do know that, according to FDOT officials, their contract with FDOT has been terminated as a result of information gathered in the investigation of Clint Curtis’ charges against the company. It should have been mentioned at least once, instead of having been overlooked and not mentioned twice.
Here’s a whopping OMISSION and a MISLEAD:
Seemingly clearing Feeney’s name by use of the old “Florida Ethics Commission” defense which Feeney has tried in almost every interview that the media has been able to get with him, Morgan fails to touch on two key points that might make that old chestnut of a defense a bit less exculpatory.
That “Florida Ethics Commission”, as we pointed out in this December article, was comprised of 8 members, 6 of whom were friends, colleagues or appointees of either Feeney himself or his previous gubernatorial running mate Jeb Bush with whom he worked closely at the time (Jeb was Governor, Feeney was Speaker of the Florida House).
As well, in apparent violation of state law, as reported in that same article, The Daytona Beach News-Journal pointed out in an investigative of theirs in 2002 that the commission failed to review email which demonstrated that Feeney had lied to the commission about direct influence he used to benefit YEI with other state officials.
The commission also failed to interview key witnesses in the case. Also, against state law.
Final big ERROR alert, with an important OMISSION tossed in for measure:
Actually, the DOT not only contended but even demanded that Yang repay them nearly $300,000 in inappropriate charges. That from a total of some $800,000 in both “questioned” and “qualified” charges.
The final report from FDOT on Curtis’ claims which Lemme began in 2001, and which Morgan contends was finished in June of 2003 when Lemme died, and which was finally released in February of 2005 was labelled as “inconclusive”. That was based in no small part on the fact that the auditors hired by FDOT to examine YEI’s books were not allowed — by YEI attorneys — to work on site at the YEI Building and to examine their original books as per standard auditing procedures.
As explained to us by Robert Clift, Lemme’s supervisor and the Director of Investigations in the Inspector General’s office, Yang “stonewalled” their audit and investigation:
“The reason the report is ‘inconclusive’ is because the charge was that Yang intentionally misbilled and they maintained that they didn’t keep an integrated billing report system and they maintained that according to their contract they weren’t required to, and lo and behold…they were right on that count. They didn’t need to. So there wasn’t anything we could do.”
Clift continued, “The Right to Audit clause in their contract lets us get into the books…If someone wants to stonewall us though, then our ability to ferret out the facts is limited…The tools we have in an administrative context is limited.”
And so, the “inconclusive” report is the final record for the moment, with some $300,000 that FDOT has required paid back by YEI, and the total of $800,000 in of both “questioned” and “qualified” charges is a far cry from the rather minimized $97,000 figure which Morgan tosses out.
Finally, there were a number of items of note that Morgan simply failed to mention.
As we’ve said, it’s a broad story, going back many years, but given her exclusive polygraph scoop, one might have thought she’d made a bit more use of it rather than minimize it as she did.
For example, was there any reaction from Feeney whatsoever as to Curtis having passed a polygraph exam?
Morgan offered no response from Feeney on the matter, nor did she apparently ask him any questions about it, such as “Would you be willing to take a polygraph exam yourself, Mr. Feeney?”
Neither does she bother to ask Feeney why his attorneys have threated The Seminole Chronicle, a small local weekly newspaper, with a lawsuit for simply reporting on Curtis’ affidavit and sworn testimony before members of Congress as we first reported on December 24th, and then again on December 29th when Yang’s attorneys followed with a virtually identically letter threatening the same newspaper.
If Feeney felt that this newspaper had defamed him by reporting what Curtis had to say, one would think that a similar legal threat or, more appropriately, an actual legal suit against Curtis filed by Feeney would be a no-brainer. And yet, Feeney has never threatened or filed such a suit against Curtis…the man actually making these explosive charges!
We find that curious, though apparently Morgan did not. Disappointing, to say the least, given that Morgan seems to have direct and on-the-record access to Feeney to discuss such matters in a way in which few previous journalists covering the story have enjoyed.
And so it goes…
No Pulitzers for BRAD BLOG yet. But for a site which Morgan and The SP Times dismiss as traffickers of conspiracy theories, it’s fascinating that we’ve yet had to give a single substantive retraction, correction or clarification on any part of the enormous body of work we’ve published on this case since December 6th 2004.
While Morgan, in a single article, seems to have irresponsibly published one paragraph after another demanding clarification, correction or retraction. We hope that she will consider doing exactly that very soon.
…CONTACTS…(Please be clear, but always polite!)
Send an Email to Lucy Morgan, Paul Tash (President/Editor of SP Times) and the Corrections Desk.
Send a Letter to the Editor.
The Clint Curtis/Tom Feeney/Yang Enterprises Vote-Rigging Scandal series, please see:
– A Quick Summary of the story so far. –
– An Index of all the Key Articles & Evidence in the series so far.







Great stuff, Brad. I’m glad to see that you have gone through the article, point by point.
Have you sent a copy of this rebuttal to Lucy Morgan’s Editor?
Don
Question:
Are there any grounds for Curtis to sue Feeney?
"Morgan’s response to our invitation to comment today: ‘I have no interest in commenting on your story, you can publish that I have two heads if you want.’"
I don’t know, Brad, maybe she does in fact have 2 heads – her behaviour seems 2-faced. Ah, makes it easier to double-speak.
They say the first image that pops into your mind is the most accurate one, so is she really trying to tell us something?
In the very first sentence of the story – "Democrats around the country have accused Republicans of stealing the last two presidential elections in Florida" – we see that Ms. Morgan has chosen to tell only a partial truth. She has completely ignored the fact that every other political party (and even some in the Republican party) have asserted (and offered plenty of proof) that the elections were stolen.
This was the worst story I’ve read in the SP Times.
The way it always goes with the MSM:
Reporter: "Mr. Republican, I’ve heard vague rumors that freedom-hating liberals, who were likely smoking PCP while talking to leprechans riding unicorns, accuse you of committing some understandable crimes. Are you guilty of any of these totally baseless and completely outlandish accusations?"
Mr. Republican: "Absolutely not! And I’ve also been accused of being a reptilian space alien too, and that’s not true either! Can you believe what these folks try to throw at me?"
Reporter: "Well, there you have it folks, Mr. Republican is one hundred and ten percent innocent. Case closed. Karen Ryan reporting in Washington."
damn Bejammin075, that’s exactly how I read Morgans’ piece of tripe.
MSM – Malicious Spin-Meisters
I have written to the editor about this suggesting that, once the allegations were shown to be true by the polygraph, the burden of denial (not an assumption of truth telling) was on Rep. Feeney, especially as an elected official. I also suggested they get another reporter on the story, because there clearly is something wrong with the electoral process warranting more querries.
Everybody spelled it wrong – Lucy Morgan won the "Pullet Surprise" award.
I just now spoke to Tom Scherberger, Ms. Morgan’s editor. As I had expected, he told me that I was free to write "a letter to the editor" (that might be published). When I asked him to please read Brad’s response (above), he said that he was quite happy with the story as it was written, that he had edited it and that Ms. Morgan had won a pulitzer prize.
Beyond that, he told me that he was too busy covering the Florida Legislature to even continue speaking to me. During the approximately three minutes we spoke, while he was polite, it sounded like there was nothing I could have said that might have changed his mind.
Great rebuttal Brad. It’s important for everyone to crush the St. Petersburg Times with letters to the editor.
You should repost the LTTE links under this front page story Brad.
The corruption in our country is beyond belief.
Bejammin075and SUKABI-
I agree, is there legal grounds for Curtis to sue the newspaper or Feeney?
Do we have a Democratic American law firm in Brad Blog land willing to take this case on probono ?
How about the ACLU?????????
Brad, please see my e-mail about a rebuttal op-ed piece. If neither Mr. Scherberger, the omsbudman, or the Publisher won’t accept it, offer it to the nearest competing paper.
You’ve alread drafted the essay. The blog entry, with some tightening, would do the job.
After reading Lucy Morgan’s article, I believe that I understand Mr. Feeney’s response tactic. Instead of responding directly to the charges or facing his accusor, he has decided to enlist sympathetic reporters to discredit the accusor, the same way that defense attorneys for accused rapists try to discredit the rape victim.
I sent along my response to the editor as well, but had felt it would fall on deaf ears, and judging by the conversation George talks about in his #9 post above, my feelings were correct.
You know people, it is real bad, whats happening to our country, and I’m still sirprised from time to time with the realization of what we are truly facing. Now is the time for one of Teresa’s optimistic posts. I could use a dose of optimism.
BTW Teresa, I think I know where to find the fuel for our escape rocket that we were talking about. All we have to do is shove a bunch of MSM journalists in the tank and set fire to them and off we go. It’s called fossil fuel, which is what the MSM is fast becoming in it’s freefall from the position it once held.
Peace
Supersoling #14 – I don’t expect them to even read our letters – judging from Ms. Martin’s snide comment to Brad, "I have no interest in commenting on your story, you can publish that I have two heads if you want."
That comment sounds vaguely familiar – see Cannonfire April 2, 2005 (re:Science Proves Vote Fraud is Real)
Excerpt:
And how did Ken Blackwell, the corrupt Ohio Secretary of State, respond to [the new study]?
"What are you going to do except laugh at it?" said Carlo LoParo, spokesman for Ohio Secretary of State J. Kenneth Blackwell, who’s responsible for administering Ohio’s elections and is a Republican candidate for governor. ‘re not particularly interested in (the report’s findings)."
There you have it: Laughter directed at science. Laughter directed at ten PhDs. As though placing the topic behind a curtain of guffaws replaces the need for a counter-argument.
####
Is it time to seek out other journalists who might be able to do this story some justice?
I meant – might be WILLING & ABLE.
Here is another fine example of Lucy Morgan’s hard hitting political journalism: http://www.sptimes.com/News/121..._his_way.shtml. I notice, by the way, that she implicitly endorses breach of marriage contract by politicians. (If all "cheating" Florida politicians stepped down, they could fairly easily be replaced in by-elections.)
Well, for what its worth, here’s my letter to Lucy Morgan.
——–
Subject: Shockingly bad journalism
Ms. Morgan,
This is just a short note to commend you on your brilliant hatchet job on the Clint Curtis story (‘Blogs spin tale of computers, conspiracies’ – SP Times, 9 April 2005). It takes a real skill to ignore the amassed facts compiled by Brad Friedman on the Brag Blog, to fail to interview either Mr. Friedman or Mr. Curtis himself, and to report Mr. Feeney’s comment as basically Gospel truth. An especially nice touch was negelecting to ask Feeney about the polygraph results. A very wise move, the polygraph was your scoop afterall – best not to let anyone know about it before it was published. And you’ve won a Pulitzer? Are they giving them away with Corn Flakes these days or what? Well, I guess that would also explain Judith ‘Chalabi’ Miller…
You state: "they say prove the elections really were stolen". I could be wrong, but having perused the Brad Blog for about six months now, I don’t believe I have ever seen Mr. Friedman or Mr. Curtis claim that the allegations ‘prove’ anything of the sort – they simply mean that it is possible that in the State of Florida a ‘vote flipping’ technique was used. The story here is not election fraud per se, rather Mr. Feeney’s solitication of Mr. Curtis/YEI to create such a vote flipping program. Again I don’t recall anywhere on the Brag Blog site, or the numerous interviews I’ve seen with Mr. Curtis (including sworn testimony at the Conyers meeting in Ohio), where they state that this ‘proves’ election fraud.
I mean, even if what Mr. Curtis alleges isn’t true – though given the amount of demonstrably false statements (known in certain circles as ‘lies’) coming from the Feeney/Yang camp Mr. Curtis seems at the very least to have as much creedence as them -, isn’t the fact that all these lies have been gushing forth at least worth mentioning, even in passing?
But then, what do I know, I’m no journalist. Oh wait, I am – and I’d have been laughed at by my Univeristy professors if I produced such shockingly bad journalism.
In the meantime, I suggest you read Mr. Friedman’s rebuttal of your story. Enjoy.
—
Mr. K Partridge,
Member of the Purple Martian Martyrs Brigade
Republicans lie and innocents die.
Republicans steal and give to their rich friends.
Republicans cheat and believe they are moral.
We must simply flush away all the Republicans in ’06 and ’08 and reclaim our Democracy.
Charlie L
Portland, Oregon
A sharp blade across a touch-screen will pretty much disable it for the duration of the day.
First one into each and every corporate-owned voting booth in ’06 should keep this in mind.
Maybe all those box cutters can be used for GOOD as well. Hmmmm.
A radical idea, but what have we got to loose. Vote switch software can’t work if there aren’t any votes in the machines.
Mr. Partridge! What a great letter. Thanks for posting it – excellent work.
re: #13….
I think you are mistaken. It doesn’t look like FEENEY enlisted Morgan. According to Brad, he and Curtis had been working with Morgan on this story and the reporter contacted FEENEY.
I’m with you here but let’s not get caught making more errors that make us look like conspiracy "whackos" any more than people already choose to believe. Don’t feed the beast!
Emma
Thanks. I’ve just noticed when re-reading it that there’s a few spelling and grammatical errors. I’ll probably get a reply along the lines of "learn to spell ya damn hippy!"
Oh well.
To #20
This may be OT here, but here’s more about DREs:
I keep saying this – if our neighbor to the North (Canada) can use paper ballots and count them all in 45 minutes the night of the election in plain sight under strict conditions which prevent cheating – so can we.
If you can count all the ballots in 45 minutes – what’s all the complaining about? Why the enormous cost for a recount? Is the real issue Disorganization, Laziness, and/or possibly Ulterior Motive?
Now the real stupidity is to pay outrageous prices for machines costing at least 3 times as much as paper ballots and offer no ability to audit results or have a true recount (only a reprint of data which might be corrupt with no way of telling).
I’m not sure what falls on the positive side with the machines, but I know my list has a negative column that keeps growing – some listed here:
Direct Recording Electronic Voting Machine Negatives:
1. Obscene Cost (rough calc. shows $56 PER VOTE)
2. Unauditable – can’t PROVE who won or lost
3. Proved to be "hackable"
4. Unreliable due to:
–a. battery failure,
–b. power surge,
–c. weather conditions e.g. heat and humidity
–d. static electricity which interferes with proper execution of program
–e. cosmic rays (yes this has caused extra votes in an actual election)
–f. unpredictable breakdown
–g. can be networked even when they’re not supposed to be
5. Not time efficient – takes 6 mins. per person to vote. Machine company asserts each machine will handle 200 voters. This works out to 20 hours per machine – polls are open 13 hrs. at most. THIS DOES NOT COMPUTE
6. More problematic with distribution (having enough for everywhere, fairly distributed) because of the cost per machine.
7. Secure storage (how to prove there was no unauthorized access in between elections or during an election?) (and cost of this storage)
8. Longer training time for poll workers (more $$$)
9. Major increase in legal bills 🙂
10. Certification costs/upgrades – and how do you ever know for sure the software is ok? Of course you don’t.
11. Negative publicity for local officials when the truth comes out.
12. Heads rolling means extra carpet-cleaning costs. 🙂
13.Maintenance & programming costs for EVERY election.
14.Are already using out of date technology -spare parts WILL be a problem down the road.
=================
A quick, rough calc. on just the cost of the initial upfront cost of the PAPERLESS DRE machines and the cost per EACH person’s vote is $56.00. Also, Diebold stated in a published email, that they would charge "out the ying yang" to add paper trail capabilities.
Other costs:
*secure storage for electronic voting machines? This adds to the cost above
*the price to purchase or lease the hardware,
*maintain/upgrade software, and
*extra time needed to train poll workers.
*the cost of vanishing votes – how much is that? #votes X $56 = Way Too Much!!
Sorry if this is in the wrong place, it can be moved it desired by Moderators.
And now the message to corporate print and broadcast media-suicide: It’s the truth stupid!
Your business product, indeed the entire justification for your existence, stands solely upon the truthful communication of facts to your subscribers.
While you whine about your emminent death, it is decaying stink the patriotic citizen must tolerate. Your MiSinfoMachine reporting speaks for itself:
It’s the truth stupid!
Talk about burying the lead… Quick summary of story…
Bloggers are nuts
They have nutty theories
One of these theories has to do with our "evil" Congressman (wink, wink, can you believe these crazy bloggers? We "heart" our Congressman!!!!)
Look at the stupid story they believe as alleged by crazy Clint Curtis… what is it? Don’t worry about it
His story is so stupid our wonderful congressman gave his self-published book (got that? it was another dig at those bloggers..have I mentioned they are out of their damn minds and have crazy theories? Oh yeah, and it is a dig at that crazy Clint Curtis’s book) as a Christmas gift. (our wonderful congressman is also quire reverent, he even celebrates Christmas…)
Yada yada..
Oh yeah, Curtis passed a polygraph and Feeney won’t even respond to specifics…
But, have I mentioned how loopy bloggers are? I mean, jeez, cookoo, cooookooo.
Tee Hee.
I believe a full copy of Brad’s rebuttal is sitting in the INBOX of Mr Stephen Buckley, Managing Editor, SP Times as we type!
…… for all the good that’ll do!!
Ms. Morgan’s Pulitzer, by the way, is for a series on corruption in the sheriff’s department of Dumpwater, Florida, home of the Poppy’s By the Tree vacation resort. Just so you all know.
Kira I’ll pay for this if you like
12. Heads rolling means extra carpet-cleaning costs. 🙂
Talking heads , the same as its ever been!
Mr. K. Partridge, #18
Permission to join the Purple Martian Martyrs Brigade?
STARTLING NEW EVIDENCE OF LUCY MORGAN’S SEVERE BI-CRANIAL AFFLICTION.
(partly re-posted & re-#ed)
One of Lucy’s heads was reported to have said:
"I have no interest in commenting on your story, you can publish that I have two heads if you want."
…. whilst Lucy’s other head recently had this to say!
"Sometimes it’s hard to set the record straight.
That’s because it’s hard for some people to admit mistakes." …. and finally,
"In this world of journalism, seems to me we are getting awfully thin of skin when we cannot admit we made a mistake.
We all make them."
Quotes from LUCY MORGAN, Times Tallahassee Bureau Chief
Published January 8, 2005
Lucy, we trust you will swallow hard on a few gallons of your own medicine and "set the record straight", now that Brad has set you straight on a number of serious errors and omissions in your Curtis/Feeney/Yang fairytale story.
We live in hope, … but sadly hope no longer springs eternal!
Keep trying to shop this story around Brad – some newspaper reporter with reputation AND integrity will take it up. It’s a tough nut to crack, but you can do it!
Oh purple martians my ass!
Everybody KNOWS martians are azure blue!!
*lookin around*
Whut?
..BUSHW@CKER
MSM REPORTER GIVES (other) HEAD TO CONGRESSMEN FEENEY ! PICTURES AT 11
Now Feeney can stop talking out of his arse.
Hey Brad, Raw Story has a link to this piece. I wish I could put a copy of your work into a major newspaper. It is so unfair that your information and great reporting doesn’t get to the people who don’t use the Internet. I get the real news from the Internet, I watch the news on TV to……. oh, I don’t know, I guess so I can shake my head at the way they report, because that’s about all I do when I watch it. Thanks for all of your hard work, Brad.
It is very appreciated by many of us. You are making a difference in our world. Thank You!
Hey Tom!
You worked for a company that employed ALIENS,
surely you would recall that Henry’s skin was not PURPLE!
Not only ethics blind, but colour blind as well!
Re: mmiixx #34
Love it!
We must bang on about aussie politics one day :0
Cheers
My dad knew Bob Hawke when he was a live ,both union men.I’d have to bush up of been in exile for 22years ,so after we save the world.
Hahah! I’m laughing now! Thanks for the humor! Lots of clever stuff. Yup, the Liberals have all the comedians & most of the brains. I guess that’s why repugnants need 2 heads.
I apologize for my OT again –
By the way, just looked up Canadian Elections Information and a quick calc. shows the cost per each vote comes to about $20 Cdn – that’s about $16.23 in US.
Compare that to the base figure per vote for DREs – $56. That doesn’t count the extra charges which any computer owner knows all too well add up quickly. And the $56/per vote doesn’t take into account the cost of the printer/paper trail thing add-on. (Cost out the yin-yang.)
Supersoling #14….
Fabulous idea on the rocket fuel!!!
Those overinflated windbags should get us all the way beyond the Milky Way.
I think Miss Priss-ass Pulitzer SHOULD get another head. The one she’s got isn’t working too well.
I am absolutely baffled by the MSM. Could it possibly be so universally corrupted as it increasingly appears to be? Is there no reporter or
mainstream print or broadcast outlet remaining in this country that is willing to push aside corporate and partisan interests and rise up in the name of integrity and of our failing democracy to take on the appalling and blatant dishonesty and corruption of this adminstration? We don’t seem to care that we have become the most disrespected (and feared) country in the world!
In regards to Ms. Morgan, the questions raised by her "reporting" in her pathetic article about the Clint Curtis charges is not whether she has one head or two but whether she remains capable of bringing even half a brain to bear on an issue that seems clearly beyond her. Her style in this article and the others cited in this thread seems to be more that of a gossipy, small town reporter with a rather provincial attitude and product. I don’t mean this as a slight on small towns (many are wonderful), just on this "journalist" who proves how little it actually means to be a Pulitzer Prize "journalist".
I agree that this rebuttal needs to be sent to the editor of every competing newspaper in Florida. With enough pressure, this story WILL eventually break into the domain of the wider public conciousness.
Brad, have you spoken with Amy Goodman or the people at Democracy Now at Pacifica Radio? Lots of listeners.
As always keep up the great work, and all you Brad Blog readers, give Brad whatever financial support you can, it’s a worthy fight.
LUCY MORGAN must gone to the same College of Journalism as Gannon ,pay $50 take a seat for a couple of hours , bingo , one "journalist".
The Neocons are in the process of hanging them- selves with all that rope they’ve given themselves. Unfortunately it’s not going to be the stolen election that brings them down although I do believe it will be exposed one day soon. Take a good look at Bush’s latest opinion polls , Delay’s mess, gas prices, flat stock market, rising health care costs along with rising interest rates, out-a-control deficits and the mess in Iraq. The clueless American people are starting to get it, it’s gonna get worse and the Wingnuts won’t be able to blame it on Clinton anymore. Unless they fake all the public opinion polls it’s going to be very hard for them to rigg elections when 40% of the people or less are supporting them. That’s why they had to let Obama win in Ill. due to Key’s low low polling numbers.
The MSM will be a little less gutless when the common folk are ready for a lynching. In the mean time keep going Brad, we love you.
The Neocons are in the process of hanging them- selves with all that rope they’ve given themselves. Unfortunately it’s not going to be the stolen election that brings them down although I do believe it will be exposed one day soon. Take a good look at Bush’s latest opinion polls , Delay’s mess, gas prices, flat stock market, rising health care costs along with rising interest rates, out-a-control deficits and the mess in Iraq. The clueless American people are starting to get it, it’s gonna get worse and the Wingnuts won’t be able to blame it on Clinton anymore. Unless they fake all the public opinion polls it’s going to be very hard for them to rigg elections when 40% of the people or less are supporting them. That’s why they had to let Obama win in Ill. due to Key’s low low polling numbers.
The MSM will be a little less gutless when the common folk are ready for a lynching. In the mean time keep going Brad, we love you.
HELP!!!!
Brad, et. al. ,
I’ve got a huge conflict of priorities coming up and I need some tech help.
I live in a (at present) communications cul de sac, where no signals other than satellite reach us except by copper wire phone lines. We, therefore, are connected to the outside world by telephone, and nothing else, not even cable (which requires fiber-optic, I believe).
I am confronted with a dilemma that I do not have the knowledgeability to resolve; and I ask you for your knowledgeable answers to this puzzle: I CAN NOT be separated from my means of communication with the operational world at this most critically urgent and dangerous point in humanity’s history. But I must be responsive to the needs of an elderly relative, a field biologist and ecologist, who desperately needs to immerse herself in wilderness.
We need to get away this spring. I need to stay in touch. Now the techie questions: if I purchase a wireless laptop, can I access my own e-mail remotely? How? Do I need another account? HOW does all this work? I realize, of course, that the laptop would have to be in range of a tower (which it wouldn’t be here); but how does one connect the dots?
This might not appear to be a life-or-death question, but it is.
Please, anyone – enlighten me, a very confused and conflicted patriot with moral obligations in all directions, and grandchildren.
Sorry about he personal not, but it was urgent. There’s nopthing I can say about this travesty of reportage except the obvious: it’s nauseating, and I am totally sickened.
Is there no recourse and redress? There MUST be, because we are still, I trust, human.
My email to the SPT National News Room:
Sometimes it’s hard to set the record straight.
That’s because it’s hard for some people to admit mistakes.
– LUCY MORGAN, Times Tallahassee Bureau Chief
Published January 8, 2005
Ha ha, Lucy Morgan is becoming something of a joke, isn’t she.
https://bradblog.com/archives/00001314.htm
regards,
Too bad, coz last week I sent the SPT another, much more positive email:
re living will is the best revenge
Robert Friedman,
Just a note to compliment you on your well-written piece. The entire situation couldn’t be summed up better than that.
Someone posted it in comments at Americablog.com this morning, which is where I ran across it. I’ll be checking the St Petersburg Times for more good reporting from now on. Keep up the good work!
regards,
Oh well, guess it was too much to hope for, that some "news" orgs are "getting it." Here’s somebody who does "get it":
http://www.workingforchange.com...m?itemid=18836
My email to the SPT National News Room:
Sometimes it’s hard to set the record straight.
That’s because it’s hard for some people to admit mistakes.
– LUCY MORGAN, Times Tallahassee Bureau Chief
Published January 8, 2005
Ha ha, Lucy Morgan is becoming something of a joke, isn’t she.
https://bradblog.com/archives/00001314.htm
regards,
Too bad, coz last week I sent the SPT another, much more positive email:
re living will is the best revenge
Robert Friedman,
Just a note to compliment you on your well-written piece. The entire situation couldn’t be summed up better than that.
Someone posted it in comments at Americablog.com this morning, which is where I ran across it. I’ll be checking the St Petersburg Times for more good reporting from now on. Keep up the good work!
regards,
Oh well, guess it was too much to hope for, that some "news" orgs are "getting it." Here’s somebody who does "get it":
http://www.workingforchange.com...m?itemid=18836
S in Van –
WHAT exactly are you saying here? It’s a little hard to decode.
You’ll probally need a satelite phone if no Cell tower is in range………….$$$$$$$$$$$
Please ref #46, folks.
I need the help.
MMix –
NOT the problem I’m confronting. I need someone to tell me how to conflate a wireless (tower) system with a phone-line server system. I’m clueless. You see, out of our small depression, a cell will connect. I need information on how to INTERconnect with our telephonic server. I am an internet lamb.
Ya, this site could use some improvement in its comment formatting, for one thing no html on the links kind of makes things run together. I suppose you have to do the thing. Also, when I clicked "submit" the page-loading went into an endless loop or whatever, so I clicked "stop loading page," copied, hit refresh, then tried again. I see that both versions posted. One plus about Haloscan, I guess, is that when it works, it works.
Um, just adding to the complaints via correspondence the SPT is getting about this; I thought that would be fairly obvious.
PEG C _
I would suggest you contact your local internet service provider and ask them. In the meantime, go to this site:
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/wlan
It’s THE site for all things broadband. You have to register (free) in order to post your question, but once you do you’ll get answers from experts and all manner of IT pros. They’ll probably be able to help you figure something out. Good luck!
Seattledem #44
EXACTLY!
It was obvious that this would come. They may be able to rig elections, but they are totally incompetent when it comes to running a country. That’s a little bit outside of their spectrum.
The MSM will leap with joy when the lynching comes.
Kira-
You should repost your post #146 from the "Clint Curtis Passes Polygraph Exam" on a more active thread in order to get more people to go to the link and, hopefully sign the petition. I’d post the link myself but I’m embarrassed to admit that I don’t know how (I was just getting into the blogosphere when Winter Patriot gave a "lesson" on posting a link some months ago and I failed to take heed then and finding that post now would be like finding a needle in a haystack).
I signed the petition but I’m curious. I’m sure there is the potential for consequences to her but why doesn’t she elucidate what is in the report a la Daniel Ellsberg since the Justice Dept. won’t release it. Perhaps they’d just say she was making things up but that seems less likely given that she apparently produced the report in the first place and people in Congress who’ve apparently read it and support its release would be in a position to speak to her honesty. Am I just being too idealistic or naive? On the other hand, it’s hard to say what I would do if faced with the same circumstances.
Partridge #18
Nice letter. Best of journalism to you. Write on.
Peg C said (#50) regarding S in Van (#48) (and #49!) –
"WHAT exactly are you saying here? It’s a little hard to decode. "
Perhaps you’re confused about the reference to the comments "Sometimes it’s hard to set the record straight…That’s because it’s hard for some people to admit mistakes." If you reread comment #31 above, it may help you understand post #48 (and #49).
P.S. to Peg C-
Sorry I can’t help you with your other dilemma but …S in Van’s comment #55 seems promising.
Yo no entiendo….
Peg C. — I think what you might want is to get an account with whoever can provide wireless Internet service where you are going. It is possible you will be able to download your e-mail at your regular ISP, remotely from the wireless ISP; simply ask your regular ISP. You will probably have to send outgoing e-mail through the wireless ISP’s SMTP server, however. WWW should present no difficulty.
I have no experience with wireless service, though. I’m just extrapolating from how it would work with two wiry services.
Have you all seen this one: Florida: Wild-West Style
(Thanks Kira!)
re #67. Yup. Where is it?
Hey Winter – Here are a few links.
Chris Myers wrote – "a University of Georgia poll found that 90% of respondents said they believe their vote was accurately counted."
The Poll he’s referring to is called the Peach State Poll which was taken in Jan. 2005 and published in March.
Peach State Poll Write-up
Poll Data Table
I’m just looking at the data for the question: How confident are you that your vote was accurately counted.
Georgia Election Results Official Results of the November 2, 2004 General Election
I believe the poll is unbalanced since they list 276 Republicans, 162 Democrats, 149 Independents as respondents.
In the Election breakdown 58% voted R, 41.4% voted D, and 0.6% voted Ind.
Thanks, WP.
Steve #69 — YIKES!!! What next?
re: #71. Thanks, Kira. I’ll let you know what I find, if anything
.
Kira #67,#71
I am a member of BBV however I have not done any analysis. But I would like to participate. E me the facts and how to if you ever need any help.
I have to agree with you on the Georgia poll. A two to one margin is not a level playing field. Therefore the margin of error has to be so high so as to render the formulaic background absurd.
One of the fundamentals of good polling is a level playing field. If you start of askew you will tend to end up askew. It is obvious and fundamental.
However, that being said, it is not impossible for a level and fair poll to come up with those results. These are the days of propaganda you know, and if propaganda is allowed to go on and on it will ruin the minds of a lot of folk.
OK, I’ll say it. Lucy Morgan has two heads. There. And after a thorough investigation of the available information, neither head appears to have an IQ.
Hey Dredd. Check the links in my post #71 – that’s all the info I’ve gathered so far. I’ve never studied polls or analysis of data – not my bag. But, I didn’t like the way the report was written to accentuate 90% over the actual data which showed 64% with "very confident" as their answer. 25% answered "somewhat confident." What exactly did those folks have in mind when they said that? Anyway, they expressed some concern.
The other thing that bothers me is the high number of Independents on the Poll compared to the .06% of Independents that voted in the Election (for the Ind. Candidate.) I think that’s skewed.
I’ve posted a request at BBV for interested parties to let me know.
You’re right – we’ve got to get busy and tell these folks we’re through playing their propaganda game.
Hehe Miss P. #75 :laughs:
https://bradblog.com/archives/00001314.htm
I have cc’d you in the hope that you take swift action on this issue.
By allowing an extremely substandard bit of journalism to be printed, you are in fact the responsible party.
The stink from this article is beginning to permeate the web. Act now or regret it later.
Respectfully, but forcefully,
Chris
_______________________________
Lucy,
I just spent quite a while reading a thorough dissection of your article in The St. Petersburg Times and I must admit I’m a bit confused.
Any single issue within an article would normally be addressed with a retraction or a clarification, but when contacted about the many glaring issues within your piece you simply chose to respond "I have no interest in commenting on your story, you can publish that I have two heads if you want."
As an American that relies on a free and honest press I find that casual attitude toward the truth to be shocking!
I have been reading the Brad Blog for quite some time and I have yet to hear of anyone finding his information inaccurate or misleading.
He never claimed any election was stolen, no matter what you may write. Your say: "Now some Internet Web sites that traffic in conspiracy theories have fashioned something of a political thriller out of a series of apparently unrelated events they say prove the elections really were stolen." (What other kind of websites are there by the way?). This is simply not true.
What a joke.
Unfortunately, this is just the beginning of your lousy reporting. In fact, I’m not sure this was reporting at all. You only quote one of three available sides, and you make many factual errors simply because you refused to read a widely available report by the DOT.
What’s left to say?
I hope that this sorry mess convinces you to take you job a bit more seriously.
Please be more responsible,
Chris
Note: I have also seen commentary on this article on several blogs, etc. This is not going unnoticed. Also, I have sent a letter to your editor asking for clarification on several ‘points’ you made.
Here’s what you missed, in case you’re interested, now.
https://bradblog.com/archives/00001314.htm
Oh sweet jesus, people…
To Nikto comment #56 (from another thread? sorry, I’m jumping around & getting confused)
"If Bush did not win by Vote Fraud in 2004, then there’s no shit in the sewers"
lol…I couldn’t have said it better.
Actually, this whole comment is dead-on. Thank you, Nikto, for articulating the problem so well. And thank you to the rest of you, too, for dragging me back in (yet again) with your knowledge, passion & intelligence.
I was so thoroughly demoralized after the January 6th fiasco (when our one and only senator with balls, Barbara Boxer, stood in support of John Conyers’ efforts to not certify Ohio’s electoral votes) I swore I was done with the whole sorry, spineless, bullshit-spewing lot of them. They had taken my hope & trust & ground them into a goddamn powder. Kennedy, Hillary, Obama, EVEN BOXER HERSELF! skirted the real issue, choosing to talk about long lines & rain. It was UNFOOKINGBELIEVABLE!
Computerless for months, I come back & there you go giving my pitiful, shrunken little hope-guy mouth-to-mouth, breathing life again into his shrunken little lungs. My trust-guy is in even worse shape, though, I’m afraid. He feels like he might be a candidate for the feeding tube, & Christ on a bike, I really don’t wanna go THERE again.
I’m trying. I’m trying to believe that something, some DRASTIC meaningful change, is actually possible.
Is it? With no media, no accountability, no consequences, massive daily doses of disinformation, massive amounts of evidence reviled, ridiculed & ignored? Oh jeez, sorry…I think hope-guy is starting to flatline. *sigh* I’ll stop now.
Peace.
Peg C
There is new software called "Opera" that uses P2P Revolution. It was developed by a consortium of companies including IBM, Nokia, Sony, Motorola, Sharp, and others. Opera is a platform-independent real-time speech technology. Email is not always 100% effective, therefore, Opera Software ASA solves the problem of frequent misunderstandings in non-contextual communication, is more advanced than emails and instant messaging, and enables users to communicate in real-time without the use of computers or mobile phones. The only drawback is that the technology does not seem to work well over distances of more than 100 feet, and several issues related to security and privacy remain to be fixed.
Peg C, #46 —
See my comments in the open thread here for my reply to your tech questions.
Yup – I think the smell is strongest coming from the direction of the WH. Hang in there with us Joan – this is one spooky and bumpy ride. We need ya.
Kira #67/ Dredd
I don’t know if there is anything to be gained by the analisis of a poll which was based on a ‘do you believe’ concept. If you go to a ‘magic show’ and poll the audience 90-100 % would respond that they really ‘believe’ the guy actually pulled the rabbit out of the empty hat.
The poll should have been on a ‘do you trust’ basis, and retaken–and then we should get a list of the "yes" responders. I’m sure they would all want to buy a share of that bridge in Brooklyn.
Kira #76
Yeah, I looked at the data and the regional background.
One only needs to look at the disparity in regional and racial results to see these poll questions and answers are not based on the technical reality, but rather on belief.
For example, the internal nature of computer programming is not the realm of the everyday person on the street. Therefore when asked questions that are determined by that kind of technical knowledge, when a person has none of that knowledge, they answer from a position of belief.
The results are ineffective without questions about how they "know" the subject matter (how voting machines work and therefore how reliable they are).
If answered honestly, the percentage of those that "know" how to program a voting machine and therefore how they really work would be quite low.
Therefore, what the results do show is something about the "beliefs" people have about how elections are held by the government.
Therefore, in this Georgia poll the minority racial belief shows less trust in government, and the white republican belief shows more trust in government.
I would predict that most anywhere in the US today. However in some areas, where the body politic is informed about this matter, the results will be very different from the Georgia poll.
For instance, heavily participating members of VR and BBV, no matter what race or party, will tend to distrust the government in terms of voting machines because they are aware of the details.
But since the body politic in general is unaware, Lucy In The Sky With Lemons newspaper folk can get away with branding bloggers as conspiracy theorists without any valid premise or sound derivitive logic.
Chris #78 – excellent letter. The MSM is getting so full of it I’m rolling up my pants legs now. It’s bad.
Cole #83 I did not know about your post when I did my #84 even tho it looks that way.
We are of the same understanding on this matter.
Go the paper’s on line forum section, get registered and comment. I just did, as Dave for Truth, and put in a new subject (Tom Feeney Vote Rigging Software article). We need to get this going on a viral level.
Thanks again Brad for you professional approach, though we all know you were biting your tongue in writing your point by point critique of her article.
Dave
I have a hypothesis (link here) that the condition of the MSM today is a result of polarization.
Just like some of our blog handles.
Fact of the matter is that unless moderates of all parties unite against fascism, fascism will win out because of the dastardly polarization that divides and conquers us.
You people are pathetic!
Facts v. Finely spun bullshit?
It’s no contest!
You’re bringing a limp wrist to a fist fight!
All your attempts at making Lucifer Morgan feel shame?
She’s too busy impaling herself with her Pulitzer, ‘Exorcist’ style.
Please, people:
‘Rights’ are meaningless, ‘Democracy’ is a non-starter and America was never admirable in the first place.
Either you take Liberty by force or you bend over by choice.
Lucifer Morgan could care less as long as her Pulitzer dildo gets her through the night.
A good revolt bests a petition every time.
Dave K #87 Good idea. Could you provide a link to facilitate bloggers here going there?
{ed note: Post deleted since it was writting by same author as “Rise, Rise” but under a different name to make it appear as if someone else agreed with them. Say what you want, but do it under a single user name. Next time the original posts will be deleted as well.}
Rise, Rise #89 I am sure you get a rise out of your urging us to give up civility and embrace something else.
We are not pathetic, we are the minority. The pro and con of activism from a minority standpoint is determined not by raw power, but by humanistic power. Martin Luther King cited as an example.
We are in the majority in terms of sentiments, feelings, and ideology. The people want peace, prosperity, fairness, honesty, and a good government.
That is not the problem. So long as most of the people want that, there is no need to reject civility as you suggest.
The problem is deceit and lies. The MSM, being the corporate lacky conveyor belt, lie and deceive the body politic. But we hold out hope that this will be brought to an end when the people take a closer look.
A closer look is in the cards because the house of cards is coming down as peak oil takes its inevitable toll (link here).
Yes, the greatest rejection of the MSM is coming because what they have said is on record. And they will be found out.
So we do not need to do a social jerk off with the violent approach "take Liberty by force" your neocon styled ideology wrongly suggests.
The pro and con of activism from a minority standpoint is determined not by raw power, but by humanistic power. Martin Luther King cited as an example.
He was assassinated and blacks are still having their votes widely suppressed or otherwise tampered with.
The people want peace, prosperity, fairness, honesty, and a good government.
Not if it means forgoing the illgotten gain attributable to American foreign policy and domestic tyranny.
So we do not need to do a social jerk off with the violent approach "take Liberty by force" your neocon styled ideology wrongly suggests.
Actually, you’re already doing the ‘social jerk off’ of thinking that ink will overcome ink.
As for being a neocon, I’d suggest that my view is only similar in that I’m prepared to bring a flamethrower to a fire fight AGAINST neocons.
You seem prepared to bring a petition.
TLF #91 You, like Rise #89, are a troll plant posting here to bring a viewpoint that diminishes the tradition of this blog.
While we leave no stone unturned in going after the facts that compose truth, we do not stoop to your intellectually bankrupt silliness.
Ad hominem attacks of the sort you two advocate are the DNA of bankrupt cognition.
Dredd and others: The link to get on the St. Pete newspaper’s on line forum is http://forums.sptimes.com/Forum...ultimatebb.cgi
I chose "in the headlines" someone else start one in the politics section whydoncha?
Rise, Rise #93 Post your email so those you want to violently oppose can and will find you.
Keep your death wishes to yourself and invite them to a fair and open OK corral shootout.
It will prove my point and your courage. As it stands now your position is dastardly.
Davek #95 Thanks. I am reposting your link here so those wanting it to automatically open in a new window when they click on it can.
Brad I hate that this happened to you, but unfortunately it is not surprising.
I know that this disappointment will not stop you and I thank you for that.
the tradition of this blog.
Nit picking while the world burns?
Ad hominem attacks of the sort you two advocate are the DNA of bankrupt cognition.
As opposed to the niceties and undue credit you bestow on your oppressors?
Post your email so those you want to violently oppose can and will find you.
I’m sure they’ll be able to do that without me posting an email address. If you don’t know that, it’s about time you did. By the way, speaking of violent opposition – how was America founded?
Keep your death wishes to yourself and invite them to a fair and open OK corral shootout.
Actually, a "death wish" would consist of piddling around while your house is on fire. That would best describe your method, not mine.
As for "shootout", again, remind me – how was America founded?
It will prove my point and your courage. As it stands now your position is dastardly.
I don’t need to "prove" my courage. As I said, if anyone wants to come after me, they will.
And I take cold comfort in the knowledge that they will be just as successful as they were in the case of Raymond Lemme, given the willingness of people like you to try to "play nice" with demonic tyrants.
Lastly, please remind me whether America was founded with or without violence and shootouts.
#99, Rise, Rise —
You have no audience here. Please get the hell out.
Note to "Rise Rise" and "TLF": Perhaps you are not familiar with the rules of this blog. There are not very many rules, but the most important one is this: ONE NAME PER POSTER!
Pick a name and use it all the time or else you will be banned from posting here. We do not delete comments, or edit them for content, but we do insist that you carry on your discussions with other people, not with yourself under another identity.
"Take liberty by force"—"Bring a flamethrower to a firefight"
Those two themes are fitting for gut wrenching heroic movies of epic proportions.
No matter what the preconceptions are the outcome is never assured. That holds true for elections, as we have seen in 2000 and 2004 and holds true for brute ‘might’ as we are seeing in Iraq today.
But Ink and Petitions do lack in glamour while the ‘war’ thing is so entertaining–how could one resist.
I will answer Rise Rise’s question, as I was about to point it out myself.
America was founded at the barrel of a gun and with the blood of those who had reached the conclusion that peaceful means would no longer get them to where they needed to be.
I understand my brother Dredd’s feeling that things may be beginning to turn, as I have felt this way myself lately only to be slapped down once again, and again, and again. I also share his feelings of the need to try and win through non-violence as Dr. King would have wished, but it is true…….Brother Martin was murdered and still his people suffer.
I am reluctant to advocate for the violent overthrow of the government, but am increasingly angry that we make little if any headway against the forces we face.
My ancestors, and yours Dredd, began with attempts at kindness, sharing, and peaceful coexistence and where did it get them? Murdered like dogs in their homes, fields , forests, and mountains. So they resisted with all they could. In the end they were not victorious but they fought and died with honor in defense of their children and their way of life.
Maybe the time will come that the only way to retake our country will be with force, but I don’t believe it is here yet. If it does come, then I will be there in the spirit of my ancestors and all they fought for.
Wow! Rise, Rise- take some deep breaths, mellow out and listen to yourself. In terms of changing the status quo, most of us on this blog are your allies, not your enemies. There is a time and place for all kinds of actions in the fight for our democracy. I think all of us are extremely frustrated but what you suggest should be the last option. Violence is actually rarely a successful remedy. Blogs like this one and Velvet Revolution are not just "jerking-off" as you suggest. I believe they/we can be the vanguard of a real change in our country. It may take time and a lot of patience. Look at how the Neocons slowly worked to coopt the Republican Party- it didn’t happen overnight and it will not be erased overnight or even quickly. We have lost some painful battles but we have not lost the war yet. We will if we turn to violent kinds of actions before they are warranted. There are many ways to fight the status quo and if you follow this blog, VR and similar progressive sites, you will see the seeds of many great ideas from many capable people working together to achieve what we all want, and, with time, can achieve through peaceful means. I hope what I am saying will not be lost on you.
…Torqued said on 4/12/2005 @ 10:16am PT…
#99, Rise, Rise —
You have no audience here. Please get the hell out.
No, thank you. Though if the mgmt. wishes to throw me out, so be it. It would be telling.
By the way, COMMENT #103 [link]
…supersoling said on 4/12/2005 @ 10:46am PT… would seem to provide evidence to the contrary of your conclusion. And we want to consider all the evidence, don’t we?
Steve, "democracy" is overrated. It has never worked, frankly. The Republicans were never that great to begin with, and all the NeoCons did was unmask the underlying ambitions, which are at the heart of both Parties.
As for the "seeds" of this blog and others… Onan did better.
Re: COMMENT #92 [link]
…Dredd said on 4/12/2005 @ 9:17am PT…
Dredd, your statement, "…we are the minority…" is at least arguable and probably >51% untrue.
(sheepishly) someone enlighten me, what the
%@&* is MSM?
Dave
Main Stream Media
I prefer to call it the Mess Media
Peg C #46 S in Van #55 has my vote in solving your technical challenge.
Some of the issue is regionalized, meaning there is no universal application, so you must inquire at a regional level for regional solutions to regional problems.
It is more economical, in general terms, to use a modem on the laptop, or to hook into an existing network near where you will be, thru an ethernet card on the laptop. Those are in general the least expensive ways to approach it.
It sounded as though you will be "in the bush" as Alaskans would say, and so the conditions where you will be will dictate a lot of the problem and therefore the solution.
Short of buying a satellite abled configuration of expensive hardware, go with the flow of the technology where you will be.
Hey Steve, I’ll repost the link to Petition for Sibel Edmonds here:
Also, the magic link command:
Here’s what I do: I keep a copy of the code in a Word document & keep it open when posting on these forums. I then just copy the code & paste into my comment box.
Then I copy the web address and paste it into the spot (web addy) then delete the letters web addy.
Then I just write in whatever I want where the word subject is in my "template" then delete the letters subject
Here’s the "template":
[a href="web addy" target="_blank"]Subject[/a]
Replace all [ and] brackets with (can’t do it here with the signs because they disappear into the background.)
In my "template" stored in a Word Doc., I have already changed out the brackets with the signs. It works great – I don’t have to worry with it so much.
Hi Kira and Peg C … we are up late tonight. Love ya.
More for Peg C. — I think some of your anxiety may be because you are using dial-up instead of broadband, but the difference between dial-up and broadband is like the difference between drum brakes and disk brakes — either way, you brake by pressing on the brake pedal. You need a different type of modem and have to log onto the ISP differently, but usually you retrieve and send your e-mail and access the WWW in the same way (not counting speed and reliability).
DFTT (guilty)
Welcome Davek!
You must be new to blogs to ask what is MSM. Stick around, turn off your TV set, and you will learn quite a bit.
Supersoling #103
You cannot rewrite history America was not founded on Peaceful means it was founded on the ‘Taking’ of land "what ya gonna do about it?" and the barrel of the gun to enforce that principle.
To the credit of the Founders, at a later date, in crafting this nation they inserted such high statements of "We the People…" referring only to People of European extraction, but then lost some of that credit when they gave only 2/3 value to an African then tossed that credit away when the 2/3 value of the African was for the benefit of the European owner, and the indigenous folks were not even mentioned.
That was then and now is now. But the past distortions cling on, we can ‘take’ the land then and we can ‘take’ the oil today. It’s OK ’cause we can.
Freedom, Liberty, Democracy are just words we only spoke. Now comming from the throat of george we can see how hollow they sound.
There was a time when it looked like ‘We the People’ would look more introspectively at those words and try to resolve them. But that was the time that Uncle Ron made us "Feel better about ourselves". So the beat goes on. It’s a high price we now pay.
Hey Dredd, Peg C. & all – Love to all! What a great group of folks!
I know this is OT – but what the heck…
I’m working on analyzing the latest Peach State Poll – I think the write up for it is very misleading and yet it’s being quoted as fact — that 90% of Georgians believe the paperless DREs counted their votes accurately. So far it looks very weighted in favor of the repubs. Not only that calling it 90% is totally wrong.
Anybody like analyzing data here?
Has anyone noticed something? Every single time Kerry or one of his lawyers comments on the election, they always add, "But we don’t question the outcome."
My hunch is that this is added by the papers themselves. At this point, it’s irrelevant whether or not Kerry questions the outcome, because Bush has been inaugurated. But from the media’s perspective, they don’t want to be party to any specualtion of fraud…or even evidence of it.
I made a posting elsewhere on bradblog about a column in today’s New York Times, which proves the above point to my satisfaction. John Tierney was writing about the upcoming Papal election, and said that Intrade, a futures market in Ireland that bets on world events, had correctly forecast the outcome in all 50 states last November!
Tierney called this "remarkable" (an understatement), but failed to follow up on his own point. Either he didn’t get it, or wasn’t allowed to write it.
If the exit polls, which represent actual voters’ statements, could have been off by 5-1/2% (statistically impermissible), but bettors in Ireland could have called every state on the button, doesn’t that tell us something about who new what about what was going to happen? Aren’t there a bunch of millionaires out there right now who have Karl Rove’s cellphone number? Isn’t this exactly like a horserace where big money pours in on a horse that doesn’t look all that promising, and the horse wins, mirabile dictu?
Phenomenal, really. Call me a cockeyed optimist, but I think Tierney has unwittingly opened a Pandora’s box here. Stuff just keeps on coming out.
S in Van – I understand your post. I guess we’re not accustomed to reading the name "Robert Friedman!"
I remembered the first 2 lines of your comment to the SP Times from the story Ms. Morgan wrote entitled "Aside from being wrong, AP had Jeb story right". Excellent reference for her.
I think Ms. Lucy Morgan owes all of us an apology. and I hope she’s sufficiently embarressed. She’s almost ready to saddle up with the likes of Troll-bait Ann Coulter.
Well – here’s hoping Ms. Lucy Morgan will be eating a large serving of [Jim] Crow soon.
COMMENT #101 [link]
…Winter Patriot said on 4/12/2005 @ 10:19am PT…
ONE NAME PER POSTER!
Pick a name and use it all the time or else you will be banned from posting here. We do not delete comments, or edit them for content, but we do insist that you carry on your discussions with other people, not with yourself under another identity.
First, I’m not TLF.
Second, are you saying that you are a moderator?
Third, and speaking of identity, are you the ‘Winter Patriot’ who poses as a military man in Iraq on DailyKos.com, but who is more likely posting from a gov’t bunker in Reston, VA?
…Rise, Rise, honestly I’m not getting much of a rise from your comments.
"democracy is overrated". How facile of you. What’s better? Monarchy, plutocracy, oligrachy, dictatorship?
And how do you intend to rise up in violence? Are you recruiting for your survivalist training camp? Or maybe you intend terrorism – anthrax, a dirty nuke? Without a massive uprising from the American populace, who are mostly apathetic gullible consumer zombies, you’ll be squashed like a bug.
The people who post here regularly are hardly wimps, but figuring out what to do about the evil that has overtaken our nation is hardly a no-brainer. Just because we’re not advocating violence doesn’t mean we lack courage, passion or intelligence.
Cole #111
I thought my comment began with the words,"America was founded at the barrel of a gun".
Maybe I wasn’t clear in the way I wrote it. The first part was about the colonists who resorted to taking up arms against England in order to "get where they needed to be", i.e. freedom from oppression.
The second part was to Dredd, since he was the one who was having the biggest conflict with Rise Rise. Maybe I shouldn’t have singled him out, and if this was wrong then I apologize, but in any event what I was saying to Dredd had to do with Native Americans, whom Dredd and I count as ancestors by blood, and the point was that they (Native Americans) tried to be welcoming to Europeans at first and it got them nowhere. Eventually they were forced to fight against those who would take from them everything they had.
So….my whole point was that, sometimes it becomes necesarry to fight with force, those who would take our country from us, and in that opinion I was somewhat agreeing with Rise Rise and the comment he made about bringing insufficient weapons to a firefight. I would have hoped that my presence at this Blog would have been long enough that regular commenters such as yourself would know that I’m hardly one to attempt to re-write history, especially when it comes to the genocide that was perpetrated against my ancestors.
O.K. Now I’m going out on a limb here.
In spite of the way that Rise Rise introduced himself to us, "you people are pathetic" I don’t think he is a troll, and would even say that he and we, are on the same side, but that seems not to be the consensus of the majority of the commenters here. Is it possible that he is someone who has reached a much deeper sense of frustration and anger? I know of some pretty angry people at this blog, myself included. Granted we’re not advocating violence (yet) or calling each other names, but we’re angry nonetheless.
I am deeply and bitterly frustrated. Not only with the outcome of the election, but with, well you know, EVERYF#&KINGTHING, and I can see myself reaching a point where I would say f#@k it and want to take it to the next level.
Anyway, there is no moral to the story,
Peace
It looks like taking *it* to the next level, and my signoff, *Peace* might be an oxymoron, but I’m not confused.
Peace, or not
A violent revolution comes naturally when the time is right. When the exact conditions are present. The people know. You can’t force it. The sqeeze from oppression gets to certain point, like a pressure cooker, and then it blows.
If you are a good warrior, you can defeat the enemy before violence becomes necessary. This, I think, is what this country is learning. Intelligent defense, and knowledgeable fighting tactics. We are slowly evolving beyong primitive brute force, believe it or not. That’s why the blogosphere, where we are developing new neural pathways and learning to use our minds.
Rise did make one correct point…
"As opposed to the niceties and undue credit you bestow on your oppressors".
I think we DO credit these oppressors with more power than they actually possess.
Rise, Rise #99, #105, #113; Supersoling #103
You said "Steve, "democracy" is overrated. It has never worked, frankly."
Your resort to ultimate conclusion here rather than to factual counterpoint shows you are in denial.
The word ‘never‘ like the word ‘always‘ is a tool of the brazen in this context. You can’t show democracy never works no more than I can show it always works. That is a looser all or nothing waste of time argument.
You said "He [King] was assassinated and blacks are still having their votes widely suppressed or otherwise tampered with."
So that shows african americans are the same as they have always been cause "democracy never works"?
The obvious is that african americans are not slaves any more and can vote, be Secretary of State, and buy a home or eat in a restaurant whereever they want to. And a million other such things.
Your bogus innuendo that peaceful efforts only lead to assassination and no civil or voting rights do not fit the facts of reality.
To infer or allege by implication that nothing has changed because King was assassinated is as equally absurd as saying catholic whites have no rights because Kennedy was assassinated.
There is zero nexus and thus it is a classic non sequiter.
Murder happens to every level of society because there are people like you advocating violence. Like neocon DeLay vs Judges you rant in illogical ways that serve only the helter skelter crowd.
Me: "the tradition of this blog." and you "Nit picking while the world burns?".
If you will take time to notice you are using the technique I am advocating. Debate and words.
And you are using your words against your enemy? Why are we your enemy?
Do you not allow us to use our words but you can use your words? Is that better than democracy?
If you have an enemy go deal with your enemy and leave us to our work which will produce results instead of mayhem and dead people.
You said (and Supersoling seems to agree) "As for "shootout", again, remind me – how was America founded?".
By a document composed of decent ideas by decent people who were not warmongers nor hatemongers.
They put together documents of words in the form of a Declaration of Independence and later a Constitution. These documents have served us well.
They did not declare war, they declared our independence and good will.
Later and in response to our words a foreign nation did what you advocate and tried to overthrow our new government with force. We stopped them from doing that.
You said "I’m not TLF". Just got the same IP address by accident?
You can look at the Tantric yoga sex principle.
If you take the energy of rage and frustration, keep it from exiting, and circulate it within, you can keep it going and accomplish far more that blowing it once in a violent act. If you do, you have to wait before the force builds up again.
Supersoling #115
I do not think we have a quarrel (in regards to my #111) I know a bit of your history from your pasts posts. What was meant is that the colonists who took up arms to dispatch the first King George were descendants of the Europeans who took Native American lands.
If ‘re-write history’ was ill applied I apologize but I meant it in the context that, to me, there seems to be an overhanging illusion that we are the ‘good guys’ because we became a nation by fighting for the freedom from oppression. And that being so, we are free to oppress —in our national interests, of course.
What I meant is that we are in this box in which one half of the national electorate is pounding their chests, Bolton stile claiming to be owners of the world and the other half is trying to change that but cannot define itself because it does not know what it wants to be.
Let us recognize that the past glories have not led us to the righteous position that we think have gained.
Dredd #119
Yes, I do agree, in a way. The Declaration of Independence was words, a document, a petition, and those words were ignored. The British did not read those words and grant the colonists their independence. The colonists were forced to fight when their dream of independence and equality, and representative government, (having your vote counted) were ignored and denied. So I say that it may be that we will become forced into a fight, not because we desire a fight or would choose to have our petitions ignored, but because the enemy we face chooses to leave *us* with no choice.
America was born of a violent struggle.
Cole #121
Thank you for clarifying. I did not mean to glorify the European hypocrits who founded this country and later carried out their Manifest Destiny on the *real* Americans. I only meant to point out my opinion that they were forced into a fight for independence against England, thus, a bloody birth of this country.
One thing to keep in mind is that the country was founded by the wealthy elite. They were the only ones who could vote in this "democracy", which was not a democracy, but a republic, run by the elite. It is not surprising that we are still in that situation. The birth of our democracy is probably yet to come, as we overthrow this current empire, and it most likely will not be violent.
Teresa #120
I never thought of it *THAT* way! 🙂
So, on second thought, make love, not war!
Teresa, you are certainly a unique and special person.
Maybe our rules of the land need rewriting, thus the destruction of our current constitution.
Oh, Supersoling. Thank you so much.
I prefer love to war, but of course that is not realistic. I think we are headed for a new kind of civil war as we battle from right to left and decide what kind of government we really want. This will take time, and anger, and maybe some violence will occur, but mostly I think it will be a battle of minds. What we want is a true government of the people this time. Maybe we are experienced enough now to create this. And compromise will be required.
G #11 – I wonder whether Curtis needs to sue the newspaper, when anyone can start a class action suit on behalf of the citizens of America, against the paper for printing misleading information that is damaging to society at large; i.e., the lies by the Bush administration to the public about Iraq. There has to be accountability. Newspapers which claim to be telling the truth, wholly and accurately, have a duty to citizens of the United States. Someone other than Curtis should take them on…as a matter of principle…a lawyer interested in such matters… who will do the work him/herself.
Cole #83 & Dredd #84 – Thanks for looking at the data. I agree with you on your points. The poll, imho, is not a very good one. Of course I have a LOT of issues with the unauditable DREs and I DO BELIEVE it’s all smoke & mirrors – a real magic show. But, here in GA with our 100% DRE takeover, I’m extremely concerned with every little detail – especially in a poll that will color opinions. But – everyone ought to be concerned, because this poll will be used to sell others all across the nation (and even globally) on the trustworthiness of DREs.
Supersoling #122 You are comparing apples to oranges.
The revolutionary war was fought subsequent to the declaration of independence which carried no threats of violence within it.
No reasonable person should be willing to entertain violence as a means for better voting under the circumstances presented.
There are lawsuits going on right now. Besides, those doing the damage are in the MSM and not in the government. Why overthrow the government for what the MSM is doing? Why muddy the water? Rise, Rise and your comments do just that.
You postulate that there is no alternative which is an ultimate conclusion. That is not fair debate. Why is there no alternative?
When does that line of demarcation become visible and who will decide? What are the new rules that just showed up?
And because of a lousy article by a biased MSM reporter? I do not buy it at all.
Teresa #124 You say "One thing to keep in mind is that the country was founded by the wealthy elite" but surely you do not deny that the bulk of the population were not wealthy elite do you?
And what in and of itself is wrong with being wealthy so long as it is not ill gotten? For heaven sake there are two sides of these stories and you guys are doing a Lucy Morgan if you tailor it to some preconceived notions!
"The clearest call for independence up to the summer of 1776 came in Philadelphia on June 7. On that date in session in the Pennsylvania State House (later Independence Hall), the Continental Congress heard Richard Henry Lee of Virginia read his resolution beginning: "Resolved: That these United Colonies are, and of right ought to be, free and independent States, that they are absolved from all allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain is, and ought to be, totally dissolved."
The Lee Resolution was an expression of what was already beginning to happen throughout the colonies." (bold added, link here).
To set forth the notion that the Declaration of Independence was not the will of the people is an argument that needs support from the historical record. I have supplied a quote that shows it was the will of the majority of the people. The document itself says "in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies, solemnly publish and declare, That these United Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States".
To condemn Lisa Morgan’s style then advocate violence in a manner consistent with her style is disingenuous.
Hi, Rise Rise #89 – You are a little bit vulgar, but you DID make me laugh – and I agree, it’s time for some "street time" in America – firmly, but peaceful, growing larger and larger at each march (we need battle songs), to make the walls of corruption come falling down. Maybe take on the MSM offices first!
Peggy #129 The answer is no.
Freedom of the press has been defined by the Supreme Court to mean that even when the press prints false information about public figures it must be shown by clear and convincing evidence that it was maliciously done. That means more than deliberately.
Secondly, the article sections about Curtis have to be defamatory, which is a prerequisite, but they are not. It says he passed a lie detector test, which is a good thing, and which is true.
Those parts that quote Feeney making fun of Curtis is what Feeney does. He is silly to do it but he is not doing anything other than expressing his opinion.
In short the article is miles from being actionable.
The proper thing to do is as Brad has done. To print a rebuttal setting forth where Lucy was wrong, and as we have done, to write and complain about it.
That is the end of the matter. Let the people decide by reading what both sides have done. I trust that when they hear all sides they will side with us.
Hi, Rise Rise #99 – If necessary, I am sure that people like Dredd and others here will take up arms to defend themselves and America – but the time is not now. Yes, I agree the "other side" are violent and dangerous people – but they are still "hiding" and thanks to the NRA, Americans still have their weapons of defense against the government: IF NECESSARY. The time is not now – but when the people of America finally take to the streets by the millions, the neocons will back down – they are absolute cowards. And those neocons who think they can win thru violence, will be brought down to the lowest of levels. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Patience, Rise Rise – the people of America must, and will Rise – when the time is ripe for winning!
Dredd #133 – The neocons do not care what you say, or write. It can’t stop them. The people of America will have to really suffer, and then they will take to the streets. So, the neocons will continue to pass out crumbs (a $200 tax deduction) and tell Americans they are the "best, the greatest" and all that other schmok, to keep them quiet and pacified. It is only when millions of Americans are sick and tired of being pacified and take to the streets – that’s when a change will occur. So, the purpose of your "writing" is to stir those millions of people. But those millions will be ignored until they "move" out of their chairs and into the streets – how about a small bet? $100 to Brad if the neocons fall without Americans taking to the streets of America, outside the MSM offices and the offices of the "politicians"??????
Yes, Robert #112 – It’s all about money – just follow the stinking money trail – look what "America" has become!!!
Peggy #132!!! BATTLE SONGS – yes. We do need some. Git out yer guitars & fiddles folks! Alice’s Restaurant here we come.
Dredd – always the voice of impeccable reason. Keep reminding us to be prudent.
Supersoling – with your background, your mom being active in holding on to the 1st moment of our dissent (the ’60s) when this same political mindset reared its ugly head – you have intimate knowledge of the very real struggle. This really is unfinished business from the Nixon years – another chapter in the same fight. Too many of us became complacent but also, we were actively silenced in those days as well. Keep the faith.
Yes, Supersoling #125, Teresa #120 #124 jumps in with something thought provoking just in the nick of time – before we smack each other in the chops, when we really don’t want to hit anyone, but only live in a decent world, that would be a credit (and not sorrow) to us as "human" beings.
…now that’s what I call journalism…helluva job, Brad.
Look what has happened to America: American Abomination & Shame
More on Bush’s America: Bomb, bomb, bomb Iran
COMMENT #119 [link]
…Dredd said on 4/12/2005 @ 3:03pm PT…
leave us to our work which will produce results instead of mayhem and dead people.
Your work is what? Investigation? Playing by the rules? Similar to that of Ray Lemme? How’d that turn out?
You said "I’m not TLF". Just got the same IP address by accident?
Can only one person at a time use an IP address? I was not aware of that limitation. Same terminal… different people.
#142, Rise, Rise —
"Can only one person at a time use an IP address? I was not aware of that limitation. Same terminal… different people."
Yes actually. Only one person at a time can use your urban Kansas City, Missouri Asynchronous Digital Subscriber Line (ADSL) adapter IP address: adsl-67-64-40-101.dsl.kscymo.swbell.net (67.64.40.101).
Two usernames, one computer. Any questions?
Rise, Rise re # 113: sorry for the delay in responding. I missed your questions the first time I looked through this thread.
Are you saying that you are a moderator?
No. I’m an assistant to the proprietor. I do a variety of jobs around the blog. We don’t have moderators in the usual sense of the term.
Are you the ‘Winter Patriot’ who poses as a military man in Iraq on DailyKos.com, but who is more likely posting from a gov’t bunker in Reston, VA?
No.
Any further questions, go ahead and ask ’em….
In response to Dredd #131
You quoted me correctly but you left out the important part. I didn’t say it is wrong to be one of the wealthy elite, I said that they were the only ones who could vote. To me, that is wrong. I said that they have been the dominant rulers of our country, and now I will add that at this point they are pursuing their own interests at great damage to the less than wealthy. But it is not just the neocons. They are small players in an age old tradition here, and removing them, which is imminent, will not solve the problem.
We do have to understand ourselves, our history, our character, and many other things to create a wise and just government.
Peggy #138
Sheeeeiiitt.
Re #143
There you go again Torqued, bringing facts to what should be an irrational shouting match.
Shame on you, aren’t we supposed to give trolls free reign here?
Well, that’s what they seem to think anyways… 😉
Stick to facts people, a rational argument and a cool head are required now. We see every day that violence begets violence – more of the same? No thanks. Whose values and methods would you rather align yourself with – Conyers or DeLay?
Keep the faith and keep rocking.
Peggy #135, Teresa #145 Fair enough.
But lets note that it seems that the neocons took over the influence of the reigns of the GOP without violence. They took it by words and argument. Even tho they would not have convinced me, they have convinced or influenced the GOP to some degree. But it is not an absolute influence.
I think the same technique, as you say when the time is ripe, can work to undo it. At least in principle it can.
But there is also the spectre of it not working. It depends on how the argument is presented and how it is received.
Right now we are fighting for the right to be able to be heard. That is more of a struggle against the corporate MSM than it is directly against the government.
The fight with the government is that they are not representative of the will of the people and are covering that up thru the negligence of the MSM.
Either way the MSM is implicated significantly. I find that to be troubling and I think if it were not for blogs to express all sides of the argument we would be at a loss for it.
Way before violence is a consideration there are boycotts. Martin Luther King, the NAACP, and white civil rights advocates have shown, as has Gandhi in winning independence for the largest democracy, that boycotts and that type of resistance can and do work.
They work very, very effectively against corporations that exist on profit. When the people reject them in a way that jerks on the realms of profit then they listen quite quickly.
So long as the body politic, the people, join in. It can cause massive revolution in short order.
Some here have pointed toward using competing MSM newspapers and syndications in the sense of supporting those presenting both sides fairly.
For instance, to apply it to the Lucy In The Sky With Feeney case, we would do business with the competitors of her paper.
There are a lot of things we could consider along that line to be more effective. But we have to believe in our efforts in that direction and follow them to the max.
Dredd #131
While I agree that the Declaration of Independence carried no threat of violence within it, It could be said that it’s authors knew full well what the consequences of making their declaration would be.
So the result was violence. Whether instigated and initiated by the colonists or not, the result was still violence. America was concieved in a non-violent document, but born of the violent struggle which followed as a result.
Sometimes reasonable people run out of reason when continually faced with an unreasonable assault on their senses by an unreasonable government whose propaganda is pushed by an unreasonable media.
Dredd said, "those doing the damage are the MSM not the government."
Well, I’m not sure how to respond to that.
The media is the propaganda arm of the government. The media is the biggest and most effective weapon that this unreasonable government weilds against us, it’s people, and I for one am getting sick and tired of being beaten over the head with this weapon. I am sick and tired of watching the media (Ms. Morgan), whore for the unreasonable government (Feeney), while attempting to destroy the credibility and honest, reasoned work of a true journalist and patriotic citizen (Brad), and those like him(you and me).
The media can be likened to the Tories who shilled for the King during the Revolution, so maybe we should tar and feather them before we kick their sorry asses to the curb.
I did not advocate violence, I only stated that violence may become necesarry after non-violent means have failed, as history shows, again, and again.
Dredd #149
I completely agree with the idea of staunch support of media outlets fairly representing both sides. There are more of these than I think we realize. My local papers are very good at this and I will continue to get them. Your idea of stepping up the competition, and letting them know why we are not supporting them is also good. It’s a battle to be fought on many fronts, but just remember what happened with the Sinclair thingy. Massive mobilization through the Internet works, as that proved.
There is a chance that the MSM will be changing their tune a bit as the excitement of the midterm elections comes closer, and Republican popularity continues to fade. They will respond to the competition… the Dems are looking good…and arouse it in any way they can. I think they are waiting for the chance to be released from the forced Bush loyalty.
And more and more people will be coming to the blogs. That’s where it’s happening now. Money will be coming as well. I think it is important for us to absolutely keep up this wonderful intelligent dialogue, without too much complaining, and people will be tuning in more and more. They will want to be a part of this growing movement. We are in the vanguard. I take our responsibilty seriously.
If we resort to violence, we’ve lost. That’s what they do in their primitive below the belt fighting technique. We’ve got to use our wits, which are considerable, and outsmart them, and resist all temptation to lose self control. We can’t fall into their trap. The people are coming around and losing trust.
I believe we have gone far beyond the point of no return and will now have to depend on our collective mental will to win this war. I don’t think it will be waged in the streets as in previous times in history. The advent of the Internet is a huge occurrence. It will change politics, and the way we resist oppression.
One other little thing…. trying to rip and shred, violently tear apart the enemy will probably not work as well as using that force to push forward an alternative, a vision, and a solid plan for something better.
Supersoling #150 Points taken.
My #149 will explain a bit more clearly what I meant about our struggle being mainly against the MSM.
OT
"Call me irresponsible: A conspiracy theory
Shh! Don’t tell anyone!
For the next few minutes, I’m going to be a very irresponsible blogger. I’m going to outline a conspiracy theory. It’s not a theory that I necessarily believe, and I certainly don’t expect you to believe it.
Just…think about it. Use it as an intellectual chew-toy.
A couple of posts back, I discussed a St. Petersburg Times article on the Clinton Curtis affair. The article included the startling news that an unnamed personage had hired a fairly well-known DC-based private eye to dig up evidence of vote fraud. The gumshoe’s name is Kevin Walsh.
As noted in that previous post, Walsh has been associated with the Assassination Archives and Research Center in DC, founded in 1984 by Bernard (Bud) Fensterwald Jr. and Jim Lesar. This archive is devoted to collecting material arising out of the JFK assassination controversy."
http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/
MMIIXX #155 I like the post in your link showing that economic boycott brought down a major newspaper consortium in the past.
It is instructive for us now in our fight to clean up the MSM. The post is titled "What’s past is present" (link here).
People there is hope for activism that brings the MSM to its senses.
Wow, I just spent my last hour and a half trying to catch up on all this. Where to start….
First, that article first made me mad and then made me laugh. It’s amazing how many people are stuck with their lips so far up the GOP’s arses. But I do believe that the truth is out there and people will see it thanks to people such as Brad who continues to fight to bring the truth to the light where people can see it. I too am writing to the paper to let them know that writing such bunk is not acceptable nor is it responsible reporting. I live in a town where the paper is not really useful for anything but lining our kitty litter. It is not only held by our local "people in power" but it is also slightly leaned towards conservatism. No cutting edge reporting here. But that being said I will move onto another point with this thread. I believe we do have to motivate Americans to get out of their armchairs and take action. However, I think that inciting violence won’t do this – it will simply turn more people away as they fear violent action. I can’t see many Americans getting out of their comfortable homes to take up arms. Violence is not a way of life for many. Not that I don’t think that I would fight for my rights in any way necessary. However, a violent uprising at this point would simply cause more damage than good. Violence begets violence. Rarely is right found at the end of a gun or a noose. But sometimes it is the only path left. However, I don’t think that enough people are being hurt by the pinch of oppression to bring about that kind of action. They do say that the pen is mightier than the sword. And it can be true. It has been proven in history that he that holds the MSM can sway a country. I agree strongly with trying to get some of the papers competators to carry the story. There are still some media left out there who will stand for what is right. It has been historically shown that any holding power has tried to shut down any media that didn’t support them simply because the truth in media holds much power. It’s getting the truth out there that is the challenge. Computers and Blogs have come a long way to helping that.
Once last, kinda OT point to Winter Patriot. I appreciate your efforts to uphold the few rules that are in place here. Kudos to you. However, you might want to think about the IP comment. We have 10 people in our house and many of us read Brad’s Blog. If my daughter were to post here using her own user name it would have the same IP as mine, though a different user name. There are cases where more than one person uses the same computer. Just a note. Not a critisism.
Peace to all. These are troubled times and we are all trying in whatever ways we can to help bring about the changes that need to be made. There are so many intelligent people here and I love coming here to help and listen. We shall prevail – we just must remain diligent in our efforts. The walls are cracking – they will come down and we wil all be able to breath easier when it does.
My quarrel with the advocation of violence by some here, which amounted to a declaration of war, was and is based upon a lack of foundation for their assertion.
Our good founding fathers stated:
"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation" (link here, bold and italics added).
They did not declare war nor threaten violence.
They declared independence based upon a clear and convincing list of wrongs the King of England had done for years and years without responding to their petitions for a redress of grievances.
Those who have a problem should list them and clearly name the foe who has generated the problems.
And then they should demonstrate that they have petitioned for a redress of grievances to that foe and that no response has been forthcoming.
Concerning voting problems there have been court cases won against the voting machine makers, political areas are beginning to reject the machines complained of, and congress has expressed some willingness to work at a fix.
Contrasting the MSM the blog world is growing by leaps and bounds. History shows we can damage the MSM severely with boycotts and using fair counterparts who are against the propagandizing MSM.
We have declared independence from the MSM and a willingness to work with those journalists who still carry the torch of fair reporting.
Our mottos, among others, are "be the media" and "make the truth fun".
ShadowTwinChaos re OT point in #157: don’t worry 😉
Rise, Rise = MANANANANANA ?
Dredd#158
I am totally blown away! What a grand idea!
Declaration of independence from the MSM.
You know I declared my seperation when I threw my TV out 30 years ago. I’ve been waiting for everyone to come and talk to me.
You’re right. The MSM is an excruciating prison. We always have the choice between the low road and the high road. Especially television which is a dangerous drug. An extreme downer. I think breaking that addiction is the key to this revolution. I do believe it’s about truth and lies, so that’s why I think this will be an intellectual affair. In that regard, the morons in the WH are the destined losers.
DaveK #87, #95
I did the same in the "Politics Townhall" section.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent.
-Ayn Rand
Ooooooweeee, Mmiixx!! YES!!!
Teresa #160
Write on you dear person, and we should all have a tea party …
Yes Dredd, my good friend….. A wonderful "tea" party is in store.
Write on, indeed.
Leave no turn unstoned in the pursuit of truth ,or something like that !
Good luck to all, this is my last comment at Brad Blog
Violence is the last refuge of the downtrodden and desperate, not the incompetent. If there is a return of the draft and they come for my son, you can Goddamn bet your life that there will be violence, and I will be the one beating the living shit out of the first one that lays a hand on him.
While not violent at the beginning, the anti-war protests and demonstrations of the 60’s were what ultimately had the biggest hand in stopping the Vietnam War, not people sitting at their computers writing letters to newspaper editors, while drinking their tea. I learned that a long time ago. Protestors did not seek violence, it was forced on them because they had the courage to stand up and say enough is enough. Just like the signers of the Dec. of Indepen.
Do any of you really believe that this evil administration is going to go quietly? Do you think they feel threatened by us who sit here trying to see who has the better understanding of the meaning of the Declaration of Indefuckingpendence?
Ummm…….no, I doubt it. They’re busy making a unilateralist the ambassador to the U fucking N. They are giving someone who covered up human rights violations in Nicaragua the top intelligence and security position. You think *extraordinary rendition* is bad? You ain’t seen nothing yet. There’s going to be American citizens disappearing into secret prisons all over the place now. Let’s see…….Wolfowitz. I can see him now at the World Bank threatening poor debtor nations with sanctions, or worse, unless they yeild to the boots of the freedom marchers. Rumsfeld, who was buddy buddy with Hussein and was a member of the administration that gave satelite photos to him so he would know exactly where to drop the chemical weapons that killed all those innocent Kurds. Gee, where do you think* that* weapon technology came from? Who else do we have? How about Douglas Feith at the Pentagon who is basically an Israeli spy, and serves the interests of Israel not the U.S. Oh yeah, can’t forget Condoleeza Rice who runs around the world threatening people while the media calls it a charm offensive. How charming.
Rise Rise was right when he pointed out that while the world is burning, and IT IS BURNING, we sit here and see who can be the first one to find a new petition to sign, and an awful lot of people here got their tender noses out of joint.
Our country is controlled my murderers who have figured out how to flip elections. People who openly, and with impunity, violate the Geneva Conventions, and you can bet that shit is still happening, and nothing can be done about it. They are preparing to change rules in the Senate that are two hundred years old, so that they can stack the Supreme Court with Christian idealogues who want to throw this country into the dark ages. They have wantonly murdered thousands and thousands of innocent Iraqi fathers, mothers, and children, and that is just the first country they have in their plans.
They are cutting veterans benefits, senior citizens ability to find affordable medicine, welfare, medicare, and medicaid for poor families, and even trying to kill social security while giving tax cuts to rich fucks.
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent?
Tell that to Metacom, Black Kettle, Tecumseh, Quanah Parker, Geronimo, Crazy Horse, or Sitting Bull.
I won’t be attending the "Tea Party"
And look where all those previous violent acts have gotten us.
Here is a sad fact. When reporters go to "investigate a story" they pretty much already have it written and are just looking for "quotes" to
give a look of authenticity to what they write. I’ve seen other biased articles from that paper, so don’t waste your breath. They have a skewed agenda that no one will change!
Supersoling,
I know how protective you are of your children and that’s one of he things I love about you.
But you brought them into this world, and conscription is often a part of a person’s life. You knew the kind of world it was when you decided to create them.
Your children don’t have to go into the war machine. You can leave, if you feel that threatened.
You are free.
The wars will be winding down. We don’t have the strength nor the money to continue them much longer. But the draft may very well return, probably not under this administration.
When there is no war, a draft is not always such a bad thing. Many people find it to be a great learning experience. They are professionals and they don’t put people without a killer instinct behind the guns. They divide it all up, and there are many, many tasks for all kinds of people. They are evaluated accurately and placed where their skills are useful.
My best friend in life, a sensitive artist, was in the Navy in peacetime, and he loved it. He was a medic, and he was fascinated with his work. He always talked enthusiastically about his experience.
Chances are your children won’t see a war. Very few do. But war has always been around, and when we have children, we have to know that military action is a possibility.
If you don’t leave, maybe the best thing to do would be to turn your rage into productive action to try and prevent this horror.
And to advocate violence is perpetuating the very thing you are afraid of losing your children to.
Really. You can protect them successfully. Stay strong and rational.
Supersoling
"While not violent at the beginning, the anti-war protests and demonstrations of the 60’s were what ultimately had the biggest hand in stopping the Vietnam War, not people sitting at their computers writing letters to newspaper editors, while drinking their tea. I learned that a long time ago."
A tool that wasn’t available in the 60’s and 70’s is the computer ,a tool that nobody knows the full potential of but as an easy example ,the Lemme Case was re-opened because of stories circulating on the internet .As you know there is now a private investigator on the “case” which may have resulted from the internet based interest in this case.
Clinton Curtis tried to get publicity for his claims and it wasn’t till it hit the net that it’s starting to hit the MSM ,thanks to the likes of Brad and his fellow bloggers.
Have an “ Exit Strategy “ , but you’ll know whats going on first from the net if you need to execute it.
The violence in the 60’s was initiated by the government not the protester , the students at Kent State were unarmed?
IMHO
you could add WILLIAM WALLACE to your list as well.
The only reason for a draft is when you are having a war the population is aganist! The aftermath of such a war is a dropping of recruits. Drafts accomplish notheing but warm bodies the enemy can kill. Have proper leaders that don’t call for unjust wars, no problem! A legitimate attack on the country brings tons of recruits! Drafting NEVER brings about a proper solution for socalled threats the population doesn’t recognize.
Last century we had a draft for a long, long time.
It was accepted and not that big a deal. You just did it. And many guys had a pretty good experience. They certainly talk about it a lot the rest of their lives…the things they did, places they went, and people they loved. They were young and it was all new.
Supersoling – love ya.
Check out these videos of the Nashville Conference April 8-10.
They were posted on Democratic Underground by rigel99.
A little rough, but great to see. Cynthia McKinney, Cliff Arnebeck, Brad Friedman, Kathy Dopp, and more.
Supersoling and other fellow bloggers
IT IS WORKING
An admission by King MSM II (Murdoch, Hearst was King MSM I), they admit that blogs are putting the MSM newspapers out of business.
He said: "The trends are against us. Unless we awaken to these changes which are quite different than those five or six years ago, we will, as an industry, be relegated to the status of also-rans," Murdoch told the annual meeting of the American Society of Newspaper Editors …" (link here)!!!
That should encourage us all to keep up the good work of exposing the MSM.
That is the way to get control of the government. To inform the body politic, the people.
Everyone here is a part of it. Don’t give up and leave and be sucked in by the dark side of the force. Please.
Supersoling #167 said:
"Good luck to all, this is my last comment at Brad Blog"
Bullshit Super, you are staying on task. You are a true American Patriot but you can’t win this battle alone. We haven’t a clue what will be required and just as you and your family need us, we damn-sure need your help. Take a break if need be then get back to work.
Dredd #176 —
"That is the way to get control of the government. To inform the body politic, the people."
The profound truth…
What Murdoch didn’t reveal (perhaps he hasn’t noticed or won’t admit?) is the fact that through the instant communication tools of the internet, the print newspaper and broadcast video industries are dying a certain death. The centralized corporate profit model cannot compete with the decentralized model of citizen journals we now call Blogs.
The reason for their death is that the MSM was/is only a centrally controlled, profit-driven middle-man for news all along… filling a communication void between newsworthy events and the consuming public.
We don’t use their services anymore because we don’t need the middle-man anymore. We all contribute in disseminating the news instantaneously, all around the world. We are all communication middle-men now.
Some, like Brad Friedman are exceptionally good journalists and sites that measure up to the standards of The BRAD BLOG are becoming exponentially more common, as ordinary citizens recognize their duty to inform one-another.
The MSM? Put a fork in it. It’s done.
Supersoling, your zeal is refreshing, but to eschew talk in favor of revolution is premature at this point.
We’re winning, albeit slowly. In the last few days the Capital Times in Madison, Wisconsin, the Miami Herald, and the St. Petersburg Times have all mentioned Clint Curtis. Not exactly as we would have hoped, but two months ago Curtis was just a name on the blogosphere…even John Conyers, who knew chapter and verse about him, was talking about other matters in re election reform.
We’re getting there, and we need your energy and strength behind the effort. Stick around, please.
Supersoling – please do what you must for your own well being – but do not leave forever. You are such a valued member here and I always look forward to your posts.
I know it’s scary. I know it’s enraging. I know that action is needed. Every morning when I awake, I almost dread and look forward to coming here and seeing what is going on. Starting each day by being angered at my nation isn’t always the best way to start out. But it keeps me going too. Being aware of what is going on is the only way to plan any motion at all. Be it on the computer or outside the computer world.
I do believe that this blog helps. I believe it helps in many ways. First of all, it allows debate on what course of action should be taken. It allows people to be informed outside of the MSM, it helps make people aware of things that are taking place that they could find out no where else. But mostly I think it is a great think tank. If you leave, one of our great minds will not be here to help us.
But as I said, you must chose your own path in life. And walk it with conviction. If you feel that we are doing no good or moving on the wrong path for you – then may the god and godess bless your path and peace be with you in your heart during these difficult times. May our paths cross again.
Peace
The only good thing about the SP Times Piece is that I found this site. I read the garbage piece online because I don’t subscribe to any media paper. I emailed them with my disgust but they don’t care. They are the "know it all" but know nothing media.
My comment at #111 should have probably been more generic, as what I was seeing was an increase in "V" talk, inspired and maybe initiated by comments by -rise rise-.
Now some have called -rise rise- a troll, maybe so.
He may be a troll, or an overzealous hothead, or a frustrated seeker of improvement, or one who is seeding out the bait —-in order to provide the evidence to discredit this blog.
Keep your heads, folks the use of the "V" word can and will be used against us.
The only way, and admittedly unassured way, out of this mess we are in is to be different than the opposition and to define that difference.
‘They’ are the ones who send our kids into "WAR" not us, ‘They’ are the ones who ignore the dead and maimed in that WAR, ‘They’ are the ones who reward only the wealthy few, ‘They’ are the ones who are destroying the domestic economy, not us, ‘They’ are the ones who use LIES as a tool not us. ‘They’ are the ones who pay the Mess Media to lie, not us.
‘They’ are the ones who stand behind a smirker who does this while that smirker cannot decide if he is a "WAR" pResident or an "Err on the side of life pResident"—he doesn’t know when his next ‘filp’ will ‘flop’.
Our job is to expose ‘them’ and oppose ‘them’—and while we do that we MUST define what we do stand for and how we intend to govern in terms that appeal to the 75% of the population whose soles are not bought.
"V" in this case will not be glorious, it will at best just result in a different ‘them’.
Stephen Stills (in "America’s Children") said it this way:
I can’t think of a better way to put it.
Best wishes to Supersoling and family. Your contributions here have been greatly appreciated and you will be more than welcome should you decide to return.
Supersoling, my advice to you, whatever you want of it, is to hang in there, you are not alone and your words are needed.
Take heart in knowing you are not alone, we all have kids, or know kids or have friends with kids and we do not want them to come back in
‘body tubes’ or with parts missing or their psychy twisted by this war or any war.
We are too few and everyone is needed to ‘cast these vermen out’.
Hats off to Stephen Stills, a fine way to have put it.
Mark #181 —
We are happy you came by. Keep coming back and keep making noise.
Cole #182 —
We have Brad as an example for proper behavior… Brad is using his Patriotic anger and passion to carry the message and bring about change. No one exposes the truth better than Brad Blog and few can match his style. This thread was borne of one of Brad’s finest works. After three times through, I still read it in awe.
Winter Patriot #183 —
Great message and I love your BLOG!
Mark #181
I echo the sentiments of Torqued #185.
Welcome and thanks for letting the MSM know we are on the case.
WP #183 Very Well Said. I love your Blog too.
My concern for Supersoling is that he said when they come to get his grandson and take his grandson to war the is going to kick ‘they’ ass.
He is not a violent man or he would have said worse. But he is a guy who, when you are boxing him he wants you to hit him with what you got, not with kid gloves.
So here is my punch Supersoling. So your grandchild is going to watch you deck a government agent cause you don’t believe in war. He is going to be a bit perplexed at the … at least … very complicated nature of that confrontation.
Then he is going to see you dragged off to prison and charged with a serious offense. He is hardly going to consider these events to be the most enlightened possible scenario.
But if we start now to organize and have an effect on the draft board construction, thereby providing for good CO considerations, then if he is a CO he will be protected. Also we can fight hard in the courts and stall it until the war is over.
In short your scenario is short sighted and we can do better than that for your grandson who would have his heart hurt to have to visit you in prison because you gave in to you know what.
So peace brother, as we said once or twice before.
Torqued #185
Sorry, don’t quite get the gist of your comment
regarding my-182.
We all can be an example of proper behavior. I am happy with your feelings about Brad as expressed.
And we should all be examples of proper behavior-what am I missing?
Good post Dredd, #187. For your argument:
"What difference does it make to the dead whether the mad destruction [of war] is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty and democracy?" ~ Mohandas Gandhi
Re: .Cole #188 —
Was adding to your #182 comments concerning Rise, Rise and the "V" word.
Supersoling #167
That was a pretty good snapshot of this "Evil Administration" but it is far from complete.
For example of the list: "Tell that to Metacom, Black Kettle, Tecumseh, Quanah Parker, Geronimo, Crazy Horse, or Sitting Bull".
You did not mention the ‘Treaties’ entered into with the tribes they represented but broken unilaterally by other "Evil Administrations" of their times which thus layed the grounds for the rampent Unsigning and Treaty breaking of our times.
You are not off the hook, Supersoling until you complete the list!
Feeny denies it all. He says they never even met. Curtis passed a lie detector. Why haven’t we seen anything reported about this on TV yet?? Not a single reporter has the guts to bring this to light? It’s like we are living in Fantasyland. Wake Up!
They spin it to be a distasteful conspiracy theory, and we are supposed to swallow that?? Not a chance. No way will we let this be buried like so many other Bushtrocities and illegal acts.
Tell your friends. Tell your family. Tell your neighbors. Tell your congressman. Don’t let history be rewritten by the real losers.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6667405/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clint_Curtis