He's an Officer for
Republican National Lawyers Association
Network of Republican attorneys

http://www.publicintegri...px?act=com&orgid=494

Had a real problem with Clinton too according to his article on Free Republic.

http://www.freerepublic....ocus/f-news/620649/posts

So where does it go from here?

And who decides?

And did they by any chance show the film of all the people waiting in line while their voting machines sat in storage or in a traditionally Republican stronghold district?

{ed note: This post was deleted not for content, but because it was posted by 69.24.33.1 who has posted here under several different names including "Joey" and "Peter". You can say whatever you wish on this blog, as long as you do it respectfully to other posters and use the same name when you do instead of attempting to appear to be different people. From now on, you may post here as "Joey" and may say whatever you like as long as it conforms to the above mentioned --- and very minimal --- rules. Otherwise, you will be banned next time. Period. I'm tired of fake "Conservatives" behaving like 4 year olds, but if I have to, I will. - BF}

Grassroots Exit Polls for 2006 & 2008 ??

I have an idea that I haven't seen or heard anywhere:

Drum roll please.

Conduct exit polls in 2006 and 2008 that will actually attempt to be accurate, like they do in verifiable democracies, e.g. Germany has accurate exit polls. And next time, let's not depend on the Corporate Media to fund/run our exit polls! (well, duh!)

After the 2004 election there was controversy about the Edison/Mitofsky poll results because they differed substantially from the election results. Before the election, we heard (apparently BS) all about how the exit polls were going to be better than ever, because nobody wanted to repeat Florida 2000. Then after the exit poll fiasco, the world's most prestegious pollsters give us the lame excuse, well, these kind of exit polls aren't really supposed to be accurate predictors of who won the election. Huh? Nevermind that we were daily force fed pre-election polls of 1000 people (who might vote) with an accuracy claim of +/- 3%, whereas an exit poll of 15,000 people who actually voted can be off by 6%, and the explanation isn't more than "Ooops, my bad. There's really no justification for my polling firm's services".

In 2006 and 2008, I predict the "common wisdom" presented by the Corporate Media will go a little something like this: "Americans are sceptical of exit polls after their dismal performance in 2000, 2002, and finally, 2004. This time around, Americans are wondering whether exit polls are needed at all, given that the country has moved to 100% electronic voting, the most accurate, secure and reliable voting method ever devised. This is Karen Ryan reporting in Washington."

Grassroots Exit Poll effort: This needs to be our backup plan for US Democracy. We may not get election reform. Or, we may THINK we got election reform, when we actually didn't, and then we get shafted yet again. You can fool me two or three times, but not four times, damnit. I've read that university students can conduct very accurate exit polls. Surly we can do this? If not nationally, then at least in the swing states.

In an ideal world, we could depend on elected officials, vote machine companies, and/or the MSM to protect democracy. It is not an ideal world. While I will do my part to restore democracy in America, nearly all actions that we can take ultimately have a component that requires involvement of elected officials, vote machine companies, and/or the MSM.

The preparation for and execution of a Grassroots Exit Poll can bypass both elected officials AND the MSM AND the vote machine companies. As long as the poll methods are sound and well documented, if the poll results were different from the "official" results, we could then make a stink smelt all the way to Ukraine, one that CANNOT be ignored. You smell what I'm cookin?

How many people would it take? (whatever that is, TRIPLE it!)

What kind of training would be required? (surly we don't need to reinvent the wheel here. Other places do it. Let's do what they do.)

How would exit pollsters be deployed to get accurate data?

How would we have "legitamacy"? (Calling Mr. Carter...)

Reducing costs: all volunteers. Volunteer #1 right here!

Transparency is key - everything done must be totally open. However, no results posted until after polls in that state close.

The goal is for accuracy, not a breakdown of voter issues. It would be better for an individual pollster to get quick responses of how 200 people voted, rather than 15 filled out, lengthy, detailed questionaires.

What do you think?

Among many other illegal things, Blackwell violated the Ohio Constitution by ordering Ohio's 88 Boards of Elections to deny anyone access to the pollbooks until after certification. A pro se lawsuit in this regard was filed in November; the first hearing on this case is scheduled for April 14 before Judge Peter Kontos of the Trumbull County Court of Common Pleas in Warren, Ohio. Anyone wishing to file an amicus brief is welcome and encouraged to do so.

The idiot who wrote comment # 3 is not Peterpont.
Just wanted you all to know
Peter

Of course it "went well" for them, they pulled off a great mystery.

How the exit poll data somehow only does not work when Bush is a candidate, but always works otherwise, is a wonderful Blackwell mystery that "went well".

What made it work so well is that major republican players owned and controlled the companies that built the voting machines, made the voting regulations, and managed the election as they managed the republican campaign.

It went oh so Blackwell.

Peter #3 (not Peterpont)

Pick on someone you fancy to be your own size.

Read about "God's involvement" in not healing Terri all these 15 years and put the blame on your God - a liberal? (link here).

Bejaminn075 #4 - I think that's great idea. Once Brad and VR get thru the current slate of activities, maybe it's one that can get organized thru VR in time for the 2006 elections. Yes, you should have back-ups for your back-ups, etc., to force the outcome to be legitimate and democratic.

Well, the Repubs. are cooking the truth BLATANTLY AND PUBLICLY as usual. "phoney" hearings, "phoney" elections, "phoney" news, "phoney" intelligence - just a bunch of dangerous phoneys running the government of the U.S. When will it stop?

Peggy #9,

I think people are beginning to get suspicious. You can only cover up a stinking decomposing rat for so long.

Thanks Peggy #9.
I posted the same comment as a diary at DKos, and it rapidly disappeared with little comment. Actually only one other commenter besides me, a defeatist who told me that it would cost millions of $ and would not be practically possible.

I'm sure lots of us are actively working for voting reform. But we may not get it BEFORE the next election. If the worst-case scenario is true, that the voting machines are rigged, and that some people in power at the top know this is their lifeblood, we've got a really really REALLY difficult task ahead of us. They will fight us tenaciously with everything they've got (and they've got a lot).

Even if we pass a voting reform law, it may not do much good. Voting companies already break the law. When they've loaded the voting machines with last minute "patches" just before an election and don't certify the modifications, there are no consequences, even when that information becomes public. We need to implement some form of vote integrity verification that doesn't depend on the actions or inactions of vote machine companies, our elected officials, and the corporate media.

One problem that I just thought of was that I heard that some exit poll workers in 2004 were not allowed near the polling place. I can't imagine why, but it happened. We would have to have some determined poll workers.

Dredd #7 - Yes, things are going so f.....g blackwell for the Repugs. and America!

To Peter #3

Since when is keeping government off our backs and out of our business a "liberal" value? It used to be a "conservative" value. It's her husband's decision by law. Respect the law. Respecting the law is traditionally "conservative," isn't it? Terry Schiavo, by the way, has been medically brain dead for 15 years living in a state she stated she'd never want to be in.

2 American soldiers died yesterday. Why aren't you out protesting those deaths, which could have been prevented if honesty and integrity mattered in this country's approach to foreign and domestic policy? Before we sent them to Iraq, their brains were completely functional, their full, young lives before them. And now the justification for this is the same one conservatives excoriated when the communists spouted it: "The ends justifies the means." I guess it's somehow different when you need to use it? The means were fictional, and the ends will come back to bite us in the ass.

It also used to be a "stated" conservative value to foster a transparent, small federal government responsive to the people, not special interests, and respectful of states rights (Now that states-rights thing appears to bear the caveat, "unless we can ignore it to stir up our political base"). The Velvet Revolution's call to save our voting rights respects the rights of free trade to participate while ensuring our rights to a clean, transparent, verifiable election system. Who could be against that? Is that "liberal"? I don't think so. I call it "reasonable." What do you call it, Pete? Are "conservatives" against integrity, transparency, and the law? The only reason to avoid this is to preserve the means of corruption. It appears that Kenneth Blackwell has no respect for the laws of his own state or of the people who vote there. Does that make him a good conservative, or a bad one, Pete? I, for one, think it just makes him a criminal, should the copious charges can be proven. His actions to date suggest that they will be. Will there be reasonable justice, or just "conservative" (and I use that term very loosely) whitewash? Viva la Velvet Revolucion! Viva reason!

{ed note: This post was deleted for the reasons explained in "Peter/Joey's" Comment #3. Since perhaps he didn't see it yet, this will be his last chance before being banned. See that other comment for details. - BF}

Bejammin075 - I like your idea about alternate Exit Pollers. I'm gonna ponder on it. Please drop a note on same over at VR in the "Election Forum" to see if we can bring some other folks on board while I ponder...

Brad

Brad - done! (Actually I posted it there first before posting it here).

I'd say that the chances of getting real voting reform in time for 2006 are pretty slim, and unless Blackwell or some other Republican criminals are taken down publicly in such a way as to finally be exposed to the majority of American voters, and cause a massive nationwide uproar, then we are pretty much on our own again with a system that is rigged against us.

The only way that I see us beating a rigged election is to have the votes so overwhelmingly lopsided in our favor that even if they do try to pull another fast one, it would be too apparent to everyone that something went wrong.

You know, I've been pretty pessimistic the last few days with the latest outrage (Terri Schiavo) being crammed down our throats, and temporarily lost my bearings. Thank you to ??????? for pointing this out to me :0) Anyway, maybe the Republicans have overeached, I mean, they definetly have, I think! All the polls I've seen regarding Terri Schiavo show an overwhelming majority of people disagree with what the republicans are doing. Hell, at DailyKos, I even saw one poll that showed a slim majority of evangelicals disagree with them. With all the scandals and blatant politicking going on, something is going to have to give sooner or later. What's still stunning are the lengths to which the RWCM is willing to go in their efforts to control information and opinion in the country. They just keep pounding away. Other than rigged voting machines, our biggest problem is clearly the media. They have to be stopped somehow.

Bejammin #75, I just wanted to say that I think we all have accurate exit polls. The lame excuse that Dems were overrepresented had to have been calculated using some comparison data. That data would be registration and poll book data --- which we are not allowed to see. In other words, if Dems were surrepititiosly re-registered as Reps, then it certainly would appear as if the exit polls overrepresented Reps. The only other way to check is to do an actual recount.

So, let us not forget, next time and among other items, to consider the accuracy of the registration and poll book records as well.

sorry for the italics.

really.

Ok, time for a nap. Post #18 I meant that if Dems were "re-registered" as Reps then it would appear that DEMS were overrepresented in the exit polls (previous error said Reps overrepresented).

Hope someone can fix my italics...I left my notes at the office.

Night night.

I have to wonder if anything has to actually be PROVED to bring down this government. What is that old saying that means "not only (fair, transparent), but APPEAR to be (fair, transparent)". As the long list of APPARENT wrongdoing increases, (with minimal cover-up by the power clutching ignoramuses over time, like this phoney "hearing"), this may be enough to push them out the door. Keep compiling the list, Brad. As it expands, getting bigger and bigger, America will grow increasingly more disgusted - something will soon break under the overload of garbage emanating from the Bush Administration.

Done!

Nope...

Bejemmin & Brad,
I'm with you on this one. I will gladly volunteer my time to such an undertaking. I heard on "Air America" recently that the Dems. in Colorado have some kind of computerized system to track votes by registered Dems. and Indpds. The topic was how the system was used in getting out the vote in Colorado in 04 and how it could be used in the 2006 election to monitor election fraud. Does anyone know anything about this? It was discussed on the Ed Shultz show several weeks ago.

Audio Report from Ohio public radio:

http://63.135.96.170/med.../2005/03/21/8215/7651.rm

Listen to this and see what a great politician SOS Blackwell is and what a great governor this man will make. (sarcasm)

Everybody in the US needs to hear this clip.

What about developing a software package (open source of course) that will run on "any" laptop that includes a Graphical User Interface (GUI) Editor .

This could allow "Exit polsters" to shown graphical representation of actual "ballot" used on day of election to "voter" that only requires "highlighting" selection they picked in polling booth ,you could show a progressive total to "voter" to prove only change made was as they selected.
Software could be secure and made to log any changes made by timestamp etc.
Training would have to be "verified" some how .
Theres lots of available laptops you would think.

Seeing as" time is money" and from what I've seen people are already giving Millions if not Billions of Dollars (in time) looking into Nov 2 2004 ,surely somebody would give the hours needed to develope the software as "open source" (look at LINUX) and together come up with a reliable program.
Results could be locally compiled and passed up a pre-arranged network of people to a central location by voice over the phone and emailed to confirm.
Something like PGP could be used to safeguard emails enroute.
A BLOGGERS VIRTUAL HEADQUARTERS could release progress results online thru out the day.

Draw up a contract with exit polster stating they are prepared to swear under oath as to the accuracy of the data they gathered and are prepared to sit a polygraph as further proof(unlike some present SOE)

done ?

done?

Dang

done! and once again I apologize for taking so long to get here. oh well.

I attended this hearing. Blackwell was extraordinarily
arrogant. At one point he turned his back to Rep. Millender-Mc Donald while she was asking him a question. When she said she would not speak to his back he motioned that he could still hear her question.
At another point she perhaps facetiously referred to him as an honorable man. Blackwell went on to add a number of complimentary synonyms to embelish this "compliment" to his character. His arrogance was not overlooked by Rep. Millender-Mc Donald who wryly added "and humble." to his list of self praise. This hearing was videotaped. I do not know how available the video is. I recommend Blackwell's performance. He had the audacity to brag about how well the election went in Ohio. He had explanations and excuses for every allegation that generally involved blaming others. I hope someone investigates his excuses and finds a way to hold him accountable.

MelissaB,Great post! Thanks for the radio clip.Blackwell is a snotty little shit talking to Stephanie Tubbs Jones that way.That woman is my hero and she deserves respect! He is still stonewalling,I guess I didn't expect anything better from him.What a criminal. I am up for doing exit polling if one is needed in Illinois. It would be an Honor.

I think it is a complete "fabrication and exaggeration" to claim that Blackwell is a competent Secretary of State. If he had any ethics at all he would have given up one of his two conflict-of-interest official political positions during the last presidential election. In other words, either he kept his job as Secretary of State and dropped being Bush's Ohio campaign party hack, or he quit as Secretary so she could run Bush's campaign.

I just wonder how many more corrupt Blackwell/Katherine Harris clones will spring up from the primordial Republican slop to game our Democratic elections before we turn completely into some type of fascist-run society where elections are rigged all the time.

Exit polling by independents would on the surface seem to be a good idea. However, how could we be sure that the other party doesn't adopt the same idea, and produce fudged results in "their" exit polls (matching of course their rigged results from the black-box voting machines). After all the Rep party has mucho dinero to spend on doing their own polls, and this could be an effective way of negating any poll done by an independent group. If the two polls differed, the repugs could claim fraud on the part of the independents. They could also ensure that their "pollsters" would receive preferential treatment, or even arrange that the indpendent pollsters were kept totally away from polling places. After all the repugs own the SOSs, such as Blackwell. Surely phoney exit-polls are not beneath the group that has given us fake reporters, govenment "news" reports, fraudulent WMD reports, etc?

If the idea of exit-polling is to work, it must be done by a single reputable non-partisan organization that is guaranteed access to all polling places. And of course the polling results must be on paper. to minimize the possibility of electronic cooking of results. League of Women Voters anybody?

Miss Persistent #18:
I think the exit polls that predicted Kerry won could have been correct, but it hasn't been proven. Then when the head of the exit poll firm comes out and says that the poll really isn't supposed to be accurate, it kind of torpedos that particular exit poll.

When I read about exit polls in Germany (I'm fuzzy here on the details, it was months ago), I believe those exit polls ARE supposed to be accurate, but they also have proportionally much more people involved in the polling. My fuzzy memory recalls that the size of our equivalent US poll would need to be about 8 times larger than our 2004 poll, in order to match the scale of the German exit polls.

Seattledem #25: I haven't heard of the vote tracking system you refer to.

MMIIXX #27:
That sounds complicated and expensive, but you bring up the good point of integrity of the exit poll. Perhaps a "buddy system" could help ensure honesty, if we feared "infiltration" by bad elements in the exit poll workers. As in, make sure that there are at least 2 poll workers at a given precinct. As far as tallying the exit poll, my preference would be for something low-tech, like a sheet of paper with the tables/lists of candidates. Photocopy as needed, and check off boxes with a pen. A laptop would need to be powered all day, and there might not be a nearby plug, or you might have to stand in the rain!

Hardwickdem #35:
If this is a (non-violent, of course) war to get our right to vote back, there will be many battles fought. We will definitely lose some battles, no doubt about it. But there are battles we can win if we chose to fight them. This is an asymetric war: there are a lot of us, but we're individually poor and unpowerful. There are few of them, but they've got centralized power in key places, money, and the MSM. If we do this independent exit poll, I don't think they will try to match us with an exit poll. The kind of exit poll we need is going to take a lot of people, which is not their style. I think they would use their strengths of misinformation and abuse of power. They will cast doubt and suspicion every chance they get on the exit poll, they will tell voters not to participate, and just general bad-mouthing of the effort every chance they get on the MSM. They will portray us as lazy, hippie, conspiracy theorists doing a half-assed and bungled job of an exit poll. Then they will use people like Blackwell and Harris to issue directives that poll workers aren't allowed within 1000 feet of a voting booth, and have us arrested for being close to the voting. You are correct that guaranteed access to polling places is key, and I suspect that's one of those things we'd have to fight for.

RE: Exit Polls My post #7 above links to the document which is the official cover-up of the exit poll events.

It is not the full story by any means, and I am sorry if I caused any confusion. The subject is fully discussed at VR and Black Box voting dot org.

The fact about exit polls is at this link in the document prepared to expose the document in post #7. The latter expose points out:

"Exit polling is a well-developed science, informed by half a century of experience and continually improving methodology" (page 5, italics added).

It goes on to show why the report was wrong and that the evidence is very strong that fraud was the reason for the exit poll descrepancy from the reported results.

With you Dredd.

I work for a research company (who is more than capable but refuses to take that particular contract:) and who goes waaay back in history with Mitofsky as a peer. There is no such thing as a reputable company blowing a poll like that. It's not in their blood.

Blackwell is a freak. I sincerely believe he is not very bright but he does fully believe his own lies. He will trip on them.

Dredd #37:
Thanks for the above links. I had seen some of that exit poll rebuttal floating around on the internets, but not that actual report by US Count Votes.

US Count Votes points out that Edison/Mitofsky claim, with no proof, that Kerry voters responded to the exit poll at higher rates. Furthermore, they show that the more Republican a precint is, the higher the response rate, which is exactly the opposite of what Edison/Mitofsky would predict!

US Count Votes points out that the exit poll error (measured as median WPE, which I don't completely grasp) is very small for paper ballot areas (-0.9%), yet very large for voting machines (ranges from -5.5% to -10.3%).

The writing style of the lame Edison/Mitofsky report reminds me of the bad papers I wrote in college where I had nothing to say - just repeating and rephrasing the same crap over and over because there's nothing to say. Take this long-winded gem, which should just be 1 sentence:

"These errors are not necessarily a function of the voting equipment. They appear to be a function of the equipment’s location and the voters’ responses to the exit poll at precincts that use this equipment. The value of the WPE for the different types of equipment may be more a function of where the equipment is located than of the equipment itself. The larger urban areas had higher WPEs than the rural/small towns. The low value of the WPE in paper ballot precincts may be due to the location of those precincts in rural areas, which had a lower WPE than other places."

What strikes me about the fact that the exit poll error is in the more populated places with unverifiable voting equipment is that it matches with Clint Curtis's claims that Feeney wanted to target the highly populated South Florida counties with lots of Black voters. There was a bank robber once, who was asked, "Why do you rob banks?" He replied "Because that's where the money is!". The best place to steal votes is there the votes are: highly populated areas that traditionally vote for your opponent.

Thank you guys,Brad, and bloggers for continuing interest. Has anyone done any research on the corruption in the states that were most blatant in fraud. I think they have to be hand picked for the most lawless behavior. Also, the amount of money poured into the state from feds. i.e. was Missippi as bad as other red states. Is more money going into these poorer states due to poverty and discontent? Is this money controlled by state attorney generals who also have to be hand picked?

Is anybody SUING the voting machine companies under product liability laws? Why wouldn't that be possible? We are consumers of the products and they are faulty.

I fervently hope that our revolution can remain a velvet one. I'm beginning to doubt it, though,
Bejammin075. I don't know what it will take to bring real social and political reform to the country, when its entire infrastructure has been coopted by fascist thugs and hoodlums; but I'd be very surprised, at this late date, if change could be effected without at least a little blood being spilled.

Let's hope I'm wrong.

Gtash #41 Yes. Black Box voting won the first phase of such a suit. It is in the second phase now (link here).

I think organized exit polling activities is a great idea. If it's well done and accurate, it would stand up in court against a fraudulent vote count. The Repubs. depend very much on "no opposition" to their methodologies. They are rich people who need dummies to keep them in power. But the majority of Americans are not stupid. Opposition makes the Repubs. work hard to justify their wrongdoings, which in fact is not necessarily easy, and it does attrack a lot of negative attention. Keep pointing out the error oF their ways, set up counter activities, such as DV4D, the exit polling idea, VR, Blackbox, etc., and they will collapse. Their strategy is built on HOT AIR and CRIME. It cannot be sustained. A person who chooses fraud and crime as a way of life is not that intelligent. These criminals can be brought down by the millions of Americans who want better leadership for their country. Just keep pounding at them.

They used THE COMPUTER, the diety of today, as their weapon. I am convinced that this weapon can be turned against them. We've got to employ our collective mental power.

The exit polls, were correct, John Kerry won Ohio and Blackwell. used his position to shut out the observers and poll watchers. He should not be elected Dog Catcher much less Governor of the great state of Ohio. By the way who has the true final count on the vote?

No need to be complicated about the exit polling. Ask each voter to drop a penny in the barrel bearing the name of the candidate they voted for. At the end of the day compare weight of the barrels.

GREAT idea, Spotted Owl!!!

Oh that is wonderful, Spotted Owl!

I think there is more stealing of votes in the more corrupt states. Ohio is home of the Mafia..have some good friends there, I'm not stereotyping..am currently inN.C. home of Jesse Helms. The vote here was so screwed up , there still may be a lawsuit over the sec. of agriculture. Nobody mentions Kerry could have lost a few votes here too. Also link between the amount of money the state attorney general receives in states that are close. Bet the atty. generals are going to get even more money to commit fraud under HAVA.

Molly - yup - gottal follow the money...