The most troubling feature is the government's reluctance to put a swift end to this. Can you imagine what would occur if people of color carried out what, in this case, amounts to armed insurrection against the U.S. government?

Ernesto @ 1:

I think I may have to disagree with you (mostly) on both of your points above.

If the government were to "put a swift end to this", it'd likely end in bloodshed and/or worse, a Waco type incident. That only works well for occupiers.

As to what would likely happen if the occupiers were not white, armed, militiamen, I agree, the tactics were probably be very different. That said, it doesn't mean that those tactics would be BETTER. It doesn't mean the government should use violent tactics (ala those type of tactics that you and both objected to when they were used against the Occupy Movement.)

In other words, yes, there is a double-standard here. But, no, I don't think the way to even the standard is to use the worst of the two choices.

In truth, we'll see, but completely ignoring them, turning off power to the facility, keep a perimeter far away from it so nobody can go in or out, make them feel isolated and alone, is probably the best way to get them to eventually come out on their own. Starving, cold, and ready to be taken into federal custody.

i recently read that the iowa caucuses are introducing an electronic spreadsheet to help keep track of caucus results

the electronic spreadsheet is the ultimate blackbox

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10141299052

we need to keep track of this

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brad,bev,jeanie dean...heads up

Interesting interview. Could have gone off the rails but didn't. Nice job.

Thanks, Larry. Yes, that was a tricky line to walk. Tried not to fall off in either direction. Glad to hear it sounds like I didn't!

I have great respect for Patrick Shea. He was the national director of the Bureau of Land Management under Clinton in 1997. He was also Tim DeChristopher's lawyer here in Utah.

I can't find the exact quotes, but although he realizes things are very difficult for some ranchers in the west, he said he would like to see the president release the Hammond’s from serving any more time for the arson, I imagine to diffuse that part of the matter, and sort of let the whole thing fizzle out, but it's starting to look like that's what's happening anyway.

After that, I think these dudes should face some serious charges for waving their guns around.

Here's my Pulitzer Prize winning photo, (not really), of Tim DeChristopher and his lawyer on the day Tim got convicted of a possible ten year sentence in prison. All the "newspapers" and television "news" were falling all over themselves to say they'd been right all along and made sure the public saw DeChristopher as a sad loser.

Somebody at the protest in front of the courthouse handed me a huge sign that said "Bidder 70" so I had to hold that and my camera when I took this picture.

Tim a had fixed trial, just as the Bundy group says the Hammond's did, but Tim ended up spending about 2 years in prison and some of that in solitary confinement.

Justice?

Plus; Tim DeChristopher never planned or hoped to make a dime off his effort to prevent precious Utah lands from being exploited by a last minute, illegal, grab for cash before George W. Bush left office. In fact he knew he would have to pay.

So I'm just saying: I'm waiting to see if these raucous "cowboys" are going to have to even show any penitence for their gun-slinging in Oregon.

Wish I could have been at this earlier protest in Salt Lake City, before the conviction.

Larry -

Now that you mention it, these guys really are the anti-DeChristopher, aren't they?

Wonder how he feels about all of this. Hmmm...

And that IS a great photo!!

You're exactly right Brad. DeChristopher was trying to save what's left of the unspoiled earth, and help save the planet, knowing he would have to pay.

They will never admit it, but these people, right on up to the governor want to use states rights as a way to get wealthy off the land. It's a very old battle around here. Governor Herbert was embarrassed about the previous Bundy episode. I haven't heard him say anything this time, but I'm sure he'd rather handle things a little differently.

I saw DeChristopher speak at a Bernie Sanders event here a couple of months ago. It's a travesty that he had to spend two years in prison while these idiots are going to be just fine.

I took some other pictures the day he got convicted.