READER COMMENTS ON
"Obama Negotiates Late Climate Deal in Copenhagen"
(37 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 12/18/2009 @ 2:32 pm PT...
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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BlueHawk
said on 12/18/2009 @ 3:03 pm PT...
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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David Lasagna
said on 12/18/2009 @ 3:33 pm PT...
I don't know. Here's Naomi Klein's take on what was going on in Copenhagen.
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/12/18
Between her reporting, McKibben's, and others I've been reading I'm very much doubting that anything we came up with is anything to shake a very unhealthy planet at. Or to expect a good result from. Or even remotely near what's required to avert disaster.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 12/18/2009 @ 3:45 pm PT...
Bullshit.
It's been leaked over the week that the proposed cuts add up to a minimum 770ppm CO₂ – over double what is safe – and a minimum 5.4 degree Fahrenheit increase in global temperatures – utter devastation for life as we know it – and this "historic" agreement with other big emitters instead of all the countries of earth is nothing more than the Danish Text that was already found wholly unacceptable last week. Goody, if we get to verify each other emitting too much CO₂....
Aren't we tired of bending each other's minds over this crap yet?
WHEN do we cut to the chase and ACT on what we know, despite politics, despite money, despite the mindfuckers cranking out this bullshit?
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 12/18/2009 @ 4:19 pm PT...
http://www.rdmag.com/New...ioxide-Into-Liquid-Fuel/
In a new approach, researchers from the UCLA Henry Samueli School of Engineering and Applied Science have genetically modified a cyanobacterium to consume carbon dioxide and produce the liquid fuel isobutanol, which holds great potential as a gasoline alternative. The reaction is powered directly by energy from sunlight, through photosynthesis.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 12/18/2009 @ 4:35 pm PT...
Politics can't solve this. Political compromises don't get this done. If you insist that politics is the only way to address this, we all might as well shut up and go home. "Politically feasible" is not a resort to some kind of maddeningly-slow solution. Mentioning it is admitting you will settle for hassling your way to the next mass extinction event.
The point is: We solve this or die. And that means, fuck politics, get it done.
Oh, you have to take your emphasis off bombing the snot out of Middle Easterners? Oh, you mean Exxon-Mobil dries up? Oh, you mean it may cause us to have to detour from capitalism for a little while?
Yes.
Is this too deep for the Climate Justice Movement as well as the denizens of D.C.? Do you mean we have been working on this for sixty years and people still don't grasp the bottom line?
Yes.
I gotta catch the bastard who keeps spiking my coffee with acid.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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matt
said on 12/18/2009 @ 5:39 pm PT...
Good coverage. Democracy Now!'s coverage today had many illuminating perspectives. Overall, I was struck by Hoyer and Markey speaking about how the US target, while lame, can be exceeded if we get on the right path. After reading your post, I feel like I'm not the only one who, while critical of the US role, recognizes this as a step forward.
I don't think we can underestimate the importance of the accountability provision. We don't have time to mess around with fraud and nonsense. Any emissions and cuts made by countries (and benefits to the carbon cycle in forests and ag) need to be properly quantified.
Getting that small group of large countries on the same page is a big deal. Helping poor nations will be easier than curbing the big ones in the medium term, and we must never lose sight of their struggle for climate justice, including the rights of indigenous peoples.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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Big Dan
said on 12/18/2009 @ 5:46 pm PT...
Breitbart is reaching for his high blood pressure medicine.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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Dolphyn
said on 12/18/2009 @ 6:28 pm PT...
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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Brutarius
said on 12/18/2009 @ 7:55 pm PT...
If you believe that Obama "burst into a meeting of the Chinese, Indian and Brazilian leaders," you're utterly delusional.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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zapkitty
said on 12/18/2009 @ 7:55 pm PT...
Desi misspelled "Obama helps corporations shake down everyone in Copenhagen."
I would have thought you'd had enough of Lucy's "Pass this crap NOW!... we'll fix it later!" routine, eh Charlie Brown?
Sure it'll be fixed up later... fixed so as to not inconvenience the oligarchs in the slightest.
And humanity dies because corporations are mindless behemoths operating under a plutocratic oligarchy that has fed themselves nothing but self-serving bullshit all their lives.
Obama serves them, not you, not humanity... the oligarchs.
The most he will do that might benefit the rest of us is to think about occasionally restraining the worst of the corporations self-destructive impulses... maybe... but since he toes the corporate line as passed down from above he often doesn't see the most destructive examples of corporate stupidity as anything worth bothering about.
Much less the liberal lefty dirty fucking hippy overreation to a warm spell.
Obama says anything at all to placate the "left" and then goes and does the corporates bidding.
And that is exactly what he's doing here.
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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David Lasagna
said on 12/18/2009 @ 8:55 pm PT...
Just read some more of the critiques of this "breakthrough" over at Rawstory.
I never had any great hopes of Obama being our saviour and had set the bar pretty low for expectations, but I did hold out some hope that maybe he'd surprise me and live up to the excitement and promise of his campaign. At least in some regard. Wow. He's terrible. Really terrible. Just terrible. It's betrayal after betrayal. Wall Street over Main Street. Transparency? Fuck you. A nation of laws? Fuck you. We're not going to prosecute war criminals, or the guys that legalized torture, or illegal spying on Americans, or outing CIA agents, or help Don Siegelman, or look into Sibel Edmonds allegations, or honor FOIA requests, and on and on. Abandoning torture? Fuck you. Release the photos we said we were going to release? No changed our minds. Why? Because it's not a good idea. So stop bugging us about the photos. But what about holding anybody accountable? Gotta look forward. With our fucking eyes closed. Closing Guantanamo? Fuck you again. It's harder than it looks. Habeas Corpus? Fuck me. Health care? Fuck everybody. Climate change? Fuck the world. Noble Peace Prize? War is good, war is great, go war!!!.
The health of the planet. The health of the planet. He's not even going to bat for the health of the planet. And he's got the nerve to stand up there and say this is momentous. I'm actually hating this guy. I had tremendously admired, at least, his campaign and the enormity of his achievement of being elected. Maybe that is the one thing he was actually capable of doing.
He's way more corporatist than not. And we just don't have the time.
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 12/18/2009 @ 9:46 pm PT...
zap, if you're trying to get me to fall in love with you, you're doing one hell of a fine job of it....
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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ab
said on 12/18/2009 @ 11:03 pm PT...
We need a leadership, and policing on global issues. Such organisation cannot be done in a few days. However it van be done now that the is a majority in commitment for the first time.
Global problems like poverty, overfishing oceans, nuclear & insolvent bandid states can be dealt with in the same way. Now the majority of world leaders wants to take responsiblity and pay. This majoriry of leadership is new. After alle it would have been worthwile to act on bandid states some time ago. The differece of a little responsibility now and the cost in a few decades is huge.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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DES
said on 12/18/2009 @ 11:56 pm PT...
Brutarius @ #10:
If you believe that Obama "burst into a meeting of the Chinese, Indian and Brazilian leaders," you're utterly delusional.
Well, apparently NBC's Andrea Mitchell and staffers at the White House are utterly delusional. See this rather bizarre story from Rachel Maddow on Friday night's show: http://bit.ly/5zIBgh
Check out the press scrum story Maddow covers next, about how Chinese officials attempted to block American press pool from entering the room...
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Paul Koch
said on 12/19/2009 @ 1:23 am PT...
Hmmm..... Obviously this is a dissapointing result (as a green carbon not-for-profit - this affects my livelihood as well as my kids) but there is little doubt that it is a step forward. Christ knows how they will settle all the points of difference but bear in mind it was only a year ago that major emitters like India werent even at the negotiating table. Its easy to criticise leaders like Obama but the reality is that, as a democracy, they can only propose what they can get through the senate - a few years ago america denied climate change was real. You cant build rome in a day, no matter how urgent the situation is. Surely its just a matter of time before the rhetoric becomes legally binding. What is needed now is a process that carries the momentum forward so that no more time is wasted... As far as corporate interests go, there is little doubt that manufactuing giants like china will be the eventual big winners from a strong climate change deal (since green technology infrastructure would go into mass-production). Innovators like america and australia could gain just as much if they werent so blinded by conservativism.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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Gray
said on 12/19/2009 @ 1:52 am PT...
It's final: No deal!
Epic failure. The summit in Nopenhagen ends without a signed documents. Developing nations revolted against the strongarming by G22. The main responsibility for this new low in interntional negotiations lies with president Obama, who waited too long to weigh in, and then offered too little, too late. No hope, no change.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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Gray
said on 12/19/2009 @ 1:58 am PT...
"major emitters like India"? WHAT? India has three times as much people than the US, and a much smaller carbon footprint per capita! The US have been THE major offender for decades, and instead of finally doing something decisive for the climate, they engage in fingerpointing at developing nations. That's ridiculous! Stop seraching for excuses, and lead with ACTIONS. Then others will follow. But spare us your hypocrisy.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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mick
said on 12/19/2009 @ 2:10 am PT...
"despite the mindfuckers cranking out this bullshit?"
The "mindfuckers" run the show ,99 you are a clever person .What aspect of current world events do you know to be true ?
1)The War on Terror
2)The War on Drugs
3)USA election results
4)911 story
5)The state of the economy
6)Unemployment figures
7)The Bailout
8)Health reform
9)America's support of Israel's war crimes
10)The use of torture as a useful tool
11)Iran's nuclear WEAPON ambitions
12)Obama's entitlement of the Nobel Peace Prize
Blah Blah Blah
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 12/19/2009 @ 2:25 am PT...
They have to have control taken away from them, Mick, or we're dead... our species and many more....
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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mick
said on 12/19/2009 @ 3:16 am PT...
Why do "terrorist" always kill innocents and never the "top guys" the ones that do the damage...unless the "terrorist" attacks are mostly false flags like 911.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 12/19/2009 @ 3:42 am PT...
My theory, Mick, is that there hasn't been a real terrorist in decades, or that all the real ones don't realize they're working for us... however you want to define "us" there. It's just that when you start looking into it deeply, there doesn't seem to be any other cogent explanation for it.... I don't know if you've noticed, but suddenly we have stuff on guys we never had stuff on in the last administration... or so they say... and, well, they only kill top guys when the other top guys want them to. That ought to be plain by now.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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Judd Dunagan
said on 12/19/2009 @ 3:58 am PT...
Forget Iraq, we need to just pull out of china. Bring Our Goods Home! That will shorten the amount of emmisions used. Keep in mind the world is ending soon in some politician's minds.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 12/19/2009 @ 6:11 am PT...
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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BlueHawk
said on 12/19/2009 @ 7:29 am PT...
Change my ass....
Corporate lobbyists at the Copenhagen summit..
*US Chamber of Commerce
"This American giant of a business federation has more than 3 million business members, including Monsanto, Dow Chemical, Exxon Mobil and Duke Energy. Some of its prominent members, including Apple, Nike and Pacific Gas and Electric have left in protest against its climate policy, and its lobbying position against the US Waxman-Markey bill on climate change. The Chamber has threatened a lawsuit to challenge the science behind climate change."
*American Coalition for Clean Coal Electricity (ACCCE) This is an Orwellian name for a group of coal energy producers...dead set on keeping things as they are.
See also: http://www.angrymermaid.org/accce
European lobbying groups...
*"European Chemicals Industry Council (CEFIC)
Cefic is the European Chemicals Industry Council, which represents the main players in the European chemical arena, including Arkema, BASF, Bayer, Dow, DuPont, ExxonMobil chemical, Shell Chemicals and Solvay. Its working group on climate change is led by Arkema´s Nick Campbell, who also leads the climate working groups of BusinessEurope (see above) and the International Chamber of Commerce"
*Eurelectric: "Eurelectric is the European association of electricity companies. Members include major climate change polluters such as Vattenfall, Enel, E.ON, RWE and DONG Energy. Power companies have made windfall profits (look for figure)i´ll send you later as a result of the EU’s emissions trading scheme (ETS) – receiving permits to pollute for free, while passing the theoretical costs on to the consumers."
That's ust the tip of the greedy/dirty pile of dung at Copenhagen; the folks who are dead set against any climate change agreements or legiaslation.
Lobbyists also include...
*Australian Industry Greenhouse Network (AIGN)
"The Australian Industry Greenhouse Network is a coalition of the heaviest polluters in Australia , including the Australian divisions of Shell, Rio Tinto, Exxon Mobil and BP as well as industry associations. It is widely known as the Greenhouse Mafia." (gotta love the Orwellian name)
Brazilian Climate Alliance (same type of Orwellian name)...same purpose, to keep polluting corporations from responsibility.
Confederation of Danish Industry, Nippon Keidanren...and many more representing the world's greatest polluters
World class corporate arm twisters bent on keeping things exactly as they are.
We're fucked...
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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Canada Guy
said on 12/19/2009 @ 7:34 am PT...
Copenhagen has failed. The UN has failed to address the most important crisis in human history. This is now the time for sanctions, boycotts and embargoes. A new alliance is needed. An alliance of hope and peace and justice must be built to oppose the axis of pollution, extinction and self destruction.
http://www.selfdestructi...2/beyond-copenhagen.html
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
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David Lasagna
said on 12/19/2009 @ 8:21 am PT...
I suspect we're fucked due to a lack of imagination on the part of our "leaders" and the mindless, ass sucking, shit spewing, fuck ass puking media keeping us all just stupid enough for self-extinction.(Can you tell I'm a little upset?) The planet'll throw us off and recover in time.
That said, I'm all for continuing the fight cuz what else can you do and dancing and making music and love while we do.
I also want to thank all you knucklehead regulars here at the Brad. I actually hate computers cuz their most significant function is the capacity they give us mindless humans to blow up the world and I don't see what trumps that on the side of good, NEVERTHELESS, I weirdly feel like I'm part of some little strange, wild, loving, busting for change, family here and even if that's only in my own mind it gives me a measure of comfort. Thanks to everyone. Special thanks to you Brad for creating this space for us.
much love,
Dave
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
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DES
said on 12/19/2009 @ 11:40 am PT...
Gray @ #18: '"major emitters like India"? WHAT? India has three times as much people than the US, and a much smaller carbon footprint per capita! The US have been THE major offender for decades, and instead of finally doing something decisive for the climate, they engage in fingerpointing at developing nations. That's ridiculous! Stop seraching for excuses, and lead with ACTIONS. Then others will follow. But spare us your hypocrisy.
In point of fact, India is now the fourth largest emitter in the world, after China, the U.S., and Russia. In it's 2008 World Energy Outlook, the International Energy Agency projected that 97% of future emissions growth through 2030 will come from booming developing economies, three quarters of that from China, India, and the Middle East.
You are correct that U.S. emissions per capita remain the highest in the world [on edit, actually, Australia has the highest emissions per capita, U.S. is a close second], and dwarf all other countries. But even though the U.S. and Europe are responsible for historic emissions, the Pew Center for Global Climate Change makes the point that the world will be unable to achieve the significant reductions in emissions required to avoid catastrophic climate change if developing powerhouses do not also reduce their emissions growth in the coming years. Although it is unfair for developing countries who did not create this problem, the scientific reality of the consequences of CO2 emissions growth projections --- no matter where the source --- is unfortunately non-negotiable.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
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Big Dan
said on 12/19/2009 @ 3:22 pm PT...
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
... mick said on 12/19/2009 @ 3:16 am PT...
Why do "terrorist" always kill innocents and never the "top guys" the ones that do the damage...unless the "terrorist" attacks are mostly false flags like 911.
A terrorist never killed a politician. I noticed that, too. And you'd think they'd be the ones they'd be after, that's what's really peculiar.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
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Sawad
said on 12/20/2009 @ 3:56 am PT...
It's very hopeful for developing countries like Bangladesh that the negotiation about climate change has been started. The developed countries who are responsible for this change they should take steps for its remedy immediately.
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
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Clifftheedge
said on 12/20/2009 @ 8:15 am PT...
Ok america its time to stop listening to anything and start aying attention to your country's demise. america is about to go down the tubes and unless we the people, yeah the ones who are suposed to be incharge here, don't stop worrying about reality tv and start focusing on reality your life, we will all end up slaves of the Chinese. The only crissi in the world is the facing America that is bnas been created by the progressive liberals and is being propetuated by them. Unless we the people take control by what ever means possible we will lose our greta nation and the only hope the world has of ever knowing real peace and prosperity. No where else can you dream of being rich. Of owning your home or business. Only here is the rule law supposed to mean something and not the rule of some at whim of some dictator or religious fantatic. Only here does the average man have a chance of knowing equality and freedom, but no for long. The progressive with their front man OBama are doing all they can to destory America. to run it in to the ground while they stuff their own pockets. PLease America wake up and take back your country. Think about what your children will have to live through. Sharing the wealth that the progressive preach is a lie. They only wnat to share your wealth while they keep increasing theirs. The laws that Congress keeps passing even though the people don't want these laws exempt them from having to be subjected to them. The laws no longer apply to them only to the average American. They are not subject to the new taxes or health care, or the carbon tax only we the people are. It has to stop! we have to stop it! we have to stop the greed and the corruption in Washington and take back our country doing away with those who think they above the law and more important than those they were elected to represent. Wake up America before they enslave you and your children. Wake Up!
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
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BlueHawk
said on 12/20/2009 @ 9:12 am PT...
Clifftheedge @31
Don't have a teabagger rally to organize ?
Shouldn't you be looking for Obama's birth certificate or something...
You state..
The only crissi in the world is the facing America that is bnas been created by the progressive liberals and is being propetuated by them.
What *liberals* might those be ? Have any of Obama's decisions been liberal ?
Just what 'liberal' policy has put this country in crisis...?
I ask you who ran the country for 8 years prior to Obama ?
Who ran congress for 12 years till 2006 ?
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
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BlueHawk
said on 12/20/2009 @ 9:50 am PT...
President Obama....
Now you're really pissing me off...
An excerpt...
when it comes to this president. Now I'm fast getting to rage.
How much rage? I find myself thinking that the thing I want most from the 2010 elections is for his party to get absolutely clobbered, even if that means a repeat of 1994. And that what I most want from 2012 is for him to be utterly humiliated, even if that means President Palin at the helm. That much rage.
Did this clown really say on national television that "I did not run for office to be helping out a bunch of you know, fat cat bankers on Wall Street"?!?!
Really, Barack? So, like, my question is: Then why the hell did you help out a bunch of fat cat bankers on Wall Street?!?! Why the hell did you surround yourself with nothing but Robert Rubin proteges in all the key economic positions in your government? Why did you allow them to open a Washington branch of Goldman Sachs in the West Wing? Why have your policies been tailored to helping Wall Street bankers, rather than the other 300 million of us, who just happen to be suffering badly right now?
Are you freakin' kidding me??? What's up with the passive president routine, anyhow, Fool? You hold the most powerful position in the world. Or maybe Rahm forgot to mention that to you. Or maybe the fat cat bankers don't actually let do that whole decision-making thing often enough that it would actually matter...
Count me in the pissed offed category...
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
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Floridiot
said on 12/20/2009 @ 1:33 pm PT...
Bluehawk, the only thing that the Dems will see if they lose the next election is that they weren't "conservative" enough in their policy making because that is how the Corporate media will frame it. It's a lose lose for us libs. Truth my hind quarter, only money matters anymore.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 12/20/2009 @ 3:20 pm PT...
Money is truth... and I mean that in the most Orwellian way....
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
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zapkitty
said on 12/20/2009 @ 3:38 pm PT...
... Agent 99 said...
"Money is truth... and I mean that in the most Orwellian way..."
So the Senate is actually the Ministry of Truth?
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
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Agent 99
said on 12/20/2009 @ 3:41 pm PT...
Yer so quick, zap! It is indeed, and they just now got their sixty votes to pass that increase in our chocolate rations! More non-healthcare for all....