Anyone who thought that those initiatives in Ohio had any chance at all is living in a fantasy land.

You can't reform corruption by playing by the rules of the corrupt.

It's time Paul Hackett and the entire Democratic party got the message.

/agree

I reviewed a Dayton article and there were ALL kinds of problems including the DRE displaying the candidates for another place unrelated to that election.

Given the corruption in Ohio, I also heard on Mike Malloy's show, an Ohioan said that the voting initiatives were worded in a very confusing and misleading manner. This I believe to be true.

I really do not believe, that as many people voted against the initiatives as was publicized.

Any thoughts from my former fellow Ohioans?

I DO hope when the Senate race happens that the people of Ohio will vote resoundingly for Paul. The polls, I heard have him majorly favored.

The polls had Kerry winning Ohio, too. That's exactly the point here. Yesterday's vote doesn't confirm the results in 2004, it confirms the fraud.

Until Diebold is out of the picture, we can never trust the computerized machines. Computers are programmed by people. It's the old adage - garbage in - garbage out.

TomZ #4

It is not the machine that is suspicious or to be doubted, it is the process controlling the machine.

Diebold makes very competent ATM machines. You can bank on it.

However, the voting machines they make have never been more than tinker toys. Why do they think votes are not as important as green pieces of paper ($$$) with photos of presidents etc on them?

Votes have the imprint of our spirit, heart, and minds on them. Our vote is paramount in a democracy.

No, it is not that machines cannot be secure, it is that we cannot be secure until the neoCons and neoConvicts are not allowed to provide us with voting machines any more.

Money they will protect, voting is just silly enough not to be protected to them.

TomZ I agree that Diebold must be put out of the picture in voting machines, but their ATM machines are quite good.

So lets inform them that until voting machines are, at a minimum, at least as good as ATM machines, they can take their tin hat souls and their machines to the dump.

I knew the election reforms issues would fail in Ohio, but I didn't expect them to fail by quite so much.

All I have to say is, I hate this state. Excluding anyone who views this site, Ohio seems to be a breeding ground for apathy. As soon as I get out of undergrad I'm going to move as far away from here as possible...

I'm not familier with the Ohio issues. What were they and how did they come out compared to polls?
Looks like it was otherwise a pretty good day for the non-Republican side yesterday. Is it to be said that things were fairer, or just that Dems were up so far Pubs couldn't steal enough to win?

Way to go gov! U are a big man on the Bushit team so why don't you go back to giving speeches to dumbshits about how good a job your furor is doing instead of trying to take rights away from the people of CA. AND the Ohio Democratic Party in addition to the Democratic Party who keeps sending out emails for contributions to impeach Bush now can go jump off the bridge they're gonna build for the Republican senator from Alaska. The majority of you are not heros. You are the same corporate robots that should go down with the system not walk in victory march. The Ohio DNC had no incline to investigate the rigged presidential election of 2004. Ask them about never responding to any postings on their website from the Boston Miracle. There was no miracle because the fraudulent election and recount was not the will of the people. Not even divine intervention could help these bastards. Ask the the Ohio Democratic party if they ever tried to help the Green Party who was responsible for trying to have a legitimate recount financially or otherwise? The answer is a resounding Nooooooooo! Scull and Bonesman Senator John Kerry was in Iraq when the robots in congress proclaimed George Bush king on January 6, 2005. He knew.

You got to ask yourself what qualifications does one need to get into American politics lets say after the controlled demolition of the twin towers, building #7 of the WTC and crashing a missile into the Pentagon? Well... you got to be a crook. you got to be a lyer. AND of coarse you got to be a corporate sellout. It helps to be egocentric greedy fck who only thinks about one's self and the money your receiving for doing your dirty work. That way after you help destroy our wildlands, this earth, and other countries like Iraq for their oil, you can justify killing anyone who doesn't agree with you in a vulgar display of power. Then you can go to your large home at night and feel good about being a fcking douchbag loser. Yeh but now you need drugs to escape your own reality. Yeah! That's the new American way. Thanks for protecting my freedom.

I can tell you exactly what our "issues" were we voted on. The 4 that were defeated were done so because they did not offer anything but more corruption and state money wasted. To sum them up quickly.......

Issue 2, Early Voting - Even though a person can presently elect to vote by absentee, just by saying they'll be out of town, they thought more people would vote by making it widespread mass mailings and not having to give a simple reason. Wouldn't they already be doing that, if they really cared to vote and could do so easily? This issue provided no safeguards against unqualified or ineligible voters (I would have voted for it, had that been the case) and didn't even establish a statewide standard for designating times and/or locations for the early voting. Also, since the county boards of election are responsible for providing pre-paid envelopes, it could add up to money they don't have. 63.5% voted No.

Issue 3, Campaign Finance - This provided caps on certain contributions. Certain being the key word. Public disclosure of funds would not disclose the money being funneled by labor unions into small donor action committees. Wealthy candidates would have an unfair advantage (Just what I don't want!). Labor unions and wealthy individuals running for office will get a decided advantage over regular folks. Sound familar? Groups opposing this included the Ohio Chamber of Commerce and the Ohio State Medical Association. 67% voted No.

Issue 4, Redistricting - this would have formed another committee. Yep another one. The 5 members would serve for an indefinite amount of time and remove power from the Ohio courts to review the commission's activites and only allow the Ohio Supreme Court the power to command them to do their duties, not rule on any redistricting decisions they make or plans they devise. It would abolish the role of elected public officials doing these important tasks. Also, it would not change the gerrymandering that exists right now, please. Just another layer for corruption and bribes (and one that could not be touched). Groups opposing this include the Ohio Manufacturers' Assoc. and the Ohio Farm Bureau Federation. 70% voted No.

Issue 5, Nonpartisan Election Administration - this would have formed another board. Yep another one. This "board" would replace the Secretary of State in overseeing the elections. Nine members would serve nine year terms, by appointment, and make decisions with impunity, without any accountability to us voters. It would effectively end local control by bipartisan county boards of elections. They would have to be funded, staffed and equipped, again additional costs. They would have been given a blank check to spend any and all tax dollars they desired. 70% voted No.

I feel I did the right thing in voting no to all 4 of these. I was apparently in the majority also. Is there anything there anyone sees that would have benefited our state? I don't think so. Of course I'm hoping for election reform, but this was not anything that would have helped. When they offer us something for "The People", I'll be the first one in line to vote Yes.

www.nrdcactionfund.org

Check it out kids!!!

"A Concerned Citizen," you sound well-meaning, but there is a serious flaw in your priorities. Concerning Issue 3, you say,

"Labor unions and wealthy individuals running for office will get a decided advantage over regular folks. Sound familar? Groups opposing this included the Ohio Chamber of Commerce and the Ohio State Medical Association."

Labor unions are organizations that represent, precisely, "regular folks." When a lot of regular folks who are in the same line of work get tired of being screwed because individually they have almost no clout against their bosses, they form labor unions. Chambers of Commerce, on the other hand, represent big business and are invariably bastions of the Republican Party and of corporate conservatism. Their biggest concern is to make sure regular folks keep getting screwed. Hardly surprising they would oppose a measure that was beneficial to labor unions. Chambers of Commerce hate labor unions, for good reason. When working people can negotiate better pay, benefits, and conditions, it cuts into corporate profits!

I love Ohio!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Michael, I agree with your labor union assessment and line of thinking, I see what you are saying. I shouldn't have used the Chamber of Commerce as an example. You're right about the unions being individuals, but this option would not be that, because said individuals are being collected and accumulated into mass donations, completely unaccountable. The labor unions would be used to funnel the monies via "small donor" action comittees. Unlimited amounts. Can I have a redo on #3? lol

How about it would force money away from candidates and into the hands of third-party organizations that could run ads with no disclosure or accountability. There would be no caps or limits for candidates to donate to themselves, so it would allow wealthy ones to have a huge advantage over non-wealthy or non-union connected candidates. More power for the rich. That's what made me touch the No box.

This was a complex amendment. I believe it's the one that filled my entire screen, and I didn't have it on the large print option. It rolls back the amounts individual citizens can give, while allowing some special interests, such as labor untions, to give unlimited amounts without full disclosure. Unions would be allowed to transfer $50 per member from union dues, and cummulatively would be allowed to donate $10,000 to legislative candidates and $20,000 to statewide candidates, far more than the $500 and $1,000 allowed from a political action committee. So in some cases big money would still be okay. It also would have infringed on the free-speech rights of small-business owners, banning their contributions as though they were corporations. Lastly, I guess I figured that if it would have passed, they (corrupt candidates from either party) would have just figured out how to by-pass the system, I know that. They would have just created more scandals for the newsfests from laundering smaller contributions through their friends and family members.

With all the corruption going on and the rich taking over the world - I'm seriously wondering, would you have voted Yes for this issue?

One idea I keep hearing is that Iraq, a.k.a the war on terror, is the central issue in the admin's loss of the public trust. The issue is multi-faceted.

The lead-up to the war has americans angry because it was contrived and thus the war was not necessary. One admin official said on the record that the war would take 90 days and pay for itself.

The ongoing war also angers americans because it has been botched. Wednesday's Hardball with Chris Matthews (5:00 pm eastern time) had incredible discussions.

The Jordanian bombings were masterminded from Iraq because Iraq is easier for terrorists to operate in than it was during the dictatorship of Sadaam.

Yes, these CIA and military speakers on Hardball were saying we are in more danger as a result of the "war on terror" in Iraq than we would have been if we did not start the war.

Another facet to the war is that it is causing everything to go up in price, beginning with oil, and it leaves the US vulnerable to other problems such as hurricanes.

The people are fed up with this admin and the bu$hit the admin has to dish out is not going to change it at all.

The '06 election is going to go against the admin and parties that have neoCons and neoConvicts hiding in them.

"Is it because Ohio really really likes the way their elections have been handled up until now by SoS J. Kenneth Blackwell?"

Yes.

That is why we'll be electing him governor next year.

Steven J. Kelso Sr. #16 What is your occupation?

Will there be a conflict of interest if Blackwell keeps his job managing and overseeing elections while at the same time running as a candidate?

In the past Ohio has had difficulty understanding conflict of interest, as US Supreme Court cases show.

I am wondering if that has improved.

Barbara Streisand has some comments. Some about impeachment, and some about partisan corporations controlling elections (link here, "A Corporate Election").

She would not approve of Ohio's mess would she?

Even though I knew it would be a waste of time, I voted on the 8th. I voted FOR issues 2,3,4,5 attempting to clean up Ohio's elections. I voted NO on issue 1, which would allow Ohio to sell bonds to finance corporations, leaving our grandchildren to pay off the debt.

The election reform issues had some problems, but nothing that couldn't be sorted out later. At least it was a start. I knew they wouldn't pass, and I knew issue 1 WOULD pass, because our elections are still fixed. I would not donate to Reform Ohio Now, or to any organizations supporting the issues, because it would have been a waste of good money. Until these organizations start investigating the fixed elections of the past several years, they are just throwing good money after bad. They need to get a clue!

I never have any problems voting, because I live so far back in the sticks in South-Eastern Ohio, we don't have anything electronic . . . yet. I am sure our paper punch cards are taken somewhere and scanned into Diebold. Our local issues seem to come out right. It is just the State issues that get tweaked by the SOS.

cHECK OUT www.FREEPRESS.ORG FOR ANOTHER GREAT ARTICLE ABOUT THIS MESS...

Like Brad says, "it's not the votes, but who counts the votes." They need to be non-partisan. I was curious about the election reform in Ohio and sad that it didn't pass. Thank you for the background on the reform issues. At least it is a beginning to righting a wrong!

Vote on election reform on rigged voting machines? We shouldn't blame the people in Ohio, home of the Mafia, for this corruption. They never had a chance. The dems. who never speak up bother me more. Did you hear the quote on Democracy Now that Kerry said he knew the election was stolen. But it was better to go to a fascist govt. than be called a sore loser. Chris Dodd got mad when he tried to discuss it with him. Why are so many dems. like Elliot Richardson complicit? I'm thinking a lot of senior dems. need to be turned out as well as repiglets.