hmmm... how did the imaginary spectre of "voter fraud" get in there?

Who gets to explain to the 10% of voters that get thrown out each election due to paper ballot mistakes that once again their vote wont count.

Any takers?

And you call yourself progressives? You all made a huge step back this month...I don’t mind much...it's been a habit that Demos are the one that screw the paper ballots up...so this should be good for my side. I do commend you on your preemptive strike (since the fears you created never materialized in official practice) it is a conservative trait…see we aren’t so far apart…..

{ED NOTE: OMSMedia is the brother of corrupt former San Diego Registrar of Voters, Mikel Haas (who now oversees the new Registrar, former Diebold sales rep Deborah Seiler and asst. Registrar, corrupt/incompetent Michael Vu of Cuyahoga County, OH). See this comment below for more details and for links to lessons on how stealing elections is all in the family for these guys. - BF}

... OMSmedia said...

"Who gets to explain to the 10% of voters that get thrown out each election due to paper ballot mistakes that once again their vote wont count."

So you are saying that opscans, also known as "the somewhat lesser evil of e-voting", that these machines have a 10% loss rate... and that the county election officials have failed to notify anyone?

Cite, please?

#2:

I believe you are talking about double punched cards. Having been pre punched for Bush a selection of Kerry or Gore resulted in a double punched card. A repunch of Bush sailed through with no problems at all. Now do you finally see how that kind of thing never happens to your party. Your party clearly has a monopoly on the corruption that causes the problems with any type of system. The "party of values" clearly is very lacking in values!

I think democracy was at risk ante Debra, and is less at risk post Debra.

#4...your talking about fraud...I'm not.

Double marks...Not filing in the bubble complete...Inka pen not fully marking the candidate. All honest mistakes...voter errors...and just one invalidates the entire card. Running pre-punched cards?..thats fraud..and amazing as it may seem...there are safeguards installed for that at the poll and county level.

The DRE's were not brought in for security..they were brought in for accuracy and Hava requirments.

The chad issue in FLA would not have happened in CA...CA would reject the cards and would never have counted them (law)

Thank you Ms. Debra Bowen!

You are a Patriot and your efforts to expose the flawed electronic computer voting equipement systems that have repeated been used to steal "our" US elections basically unhitched. Complicity by the US corporate mass media helped validate the theft after the fact.

Maybe the other states vulnerable to powerful influence$ such as the criminals in the cheney/bush re-election team or the Democrap SOS from an Eastern seaboard state who used her pull to allow the continued use of Diebold's corrupted crap will take a hint about this hackable junk used to determine the "will of the people."

Thank you Bradblog for keeping this site alive and world citizens informed.

OMSmedia,

I'd still rather have a single voter's mark not get counted because the circle wasn't filled in all the way OVER a single hacking voter who can rig the entire election undetected with a virus or backdoor channel.

What makes no sense to me is the fact that Diebold has been making secure ATM machines for decades and now it's been proven that Diebold has trouble programming secure voting machines. This doesn't add up.

Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

- Tom

... OMSmedia sidestepped...

"Double marks...Not filing in the bubble complete...Inka pen not fully marking the candidate. All honest mistakes...voter errors...and just one invalidates the entire card."

And your cite (reference) for 10% of opscan ballots lost is...?

And, as most of California votes on opscans to begin with, the reason county officials never mentioned this loss rate would be...?

What makes no sense to me is the fact that Diebold has been making secure ATM machines for decades
A .10 gauge with slug would lessen it's security

#6:

"The DRE's were not brought in for security..they were brought in for accuracy and Hava requirments."

They bring no accuracy with them. Even if a "verified" paper trail is added they provide no assurance whatsoever of any accuracy. After the "verification" process is completed up to 100% of all votes can be switched before the counting is done. If the programmer is still not satisfied with the results he can still make adjustments before reporting the "results" he and his machine secretly arrived at. Steeling any election with this system is as easy for the machine providers as taking candy from a baby. Proper use of machines could make elections safer but HAVA set up these machines to help facilitate fraudulent “elections”. HAVA set up the totally incompetent EAC as the dictator over your “democracy”. That group who is supposed to be watching over these machines at the federal level has clearly failed us.

They claim that fraud with these machines is only theoretical but that is not the case. The exit polls tell us with well over 99.99% percent certainty that the 2004 election was stolen by these machines. If you need even more certainty that these machines switch votes check out the articles about Clint Curtis at this blog. He conducted the most thorough exit poll I am familiar with. Canvassing only the Democrats who cast votes in several elections in Florida he was able to get 6 to 24 percent more voters in each precinct to certify that they voted for the Democrats than the total of the votes the Democrats were credited with receiving in those precincts. Because there was not a large number under-votes in these precincts we can very safely conclude that that these votes were not only taken from the Democrats by these machines but they were added to the Republican totals as well. That is a lot more fraud than you pointed out in your paper examples. Paper or machine the “party of values” still is very lacking in values!

Even if the opscan misses counting some votes, humans can do a recount and NOT miss those votes.

#9

Just a little research…ROV websites for CA counties used to keep Undervote and Overvote stats before switching to Electronic (which brought the poll station Over/Unders to 0%) .CA counties that had published reports of paper voting averaged between 4-12%. Nationwide between 2-11%...I rounded up statewide for effect...but if you write a letter to SOS Bowen...I’m sure she will send you exact numbers.

Sample: http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/rov/
Click 'Elections'

Being a government official...she has to tell the truth.

Plus a little bird told me…..

"Democracy At Risk"
What democracy ,the SCOTUS selected the prez in 2000 and Blackwell and friends selected the prez in 2004 .

Pat - It's ironic isn't it . . . . . That's what makes it so SINister . . .

RE: Double marks...Not filing in the bubble complete...Inka pen not fully marking the candidate. All honest mistakes...voter errors...and just one invalidates the entire card. Running pre-punched cards?..thats fraud..and amazing as it may seem...there are safeguards installed for that at the poll and county level.

Citation Please?

OMSMedia said:

Being a government official...she has to tell the truth.

Golly, that never stopped your brother from lying to the constituency he was hired to serve, did it?

Just so folks know, OMSMedia is Mikel Haas' brother. The same Mikel Haas who denied the rule of law by arbitrarily and capriciously barring a recount from occurring in the Busby/Bilbray special election to replace Duke Cunningham.

The same guy who gave hackable voting machines to hundreds of pollworkers to take home for weeks in defiance of both state and federal laws and rules.

He is not interested in the rule of law, or counting anybody's votes. He is interested in propaganda and denying citizens the right to their elections.

Plus a little bird told me…..

Or your brother did.

Care to game another online poll to stop even the Conservative Roger Hedgecock's website from showing the will of the people in San Diego who thought your brother should resign in disgrace? Details of Don Haas' shame here.

pWnEd!

RE: Comment #6 by OMSMedia

OMSMedia:

Care to test that 10% theory with some real world evidence and investigation? A term of settlement in my lawsuit with the City of Milwaukee Election Commission is that on January 14, 2008, the 276,921 ballots cast in the City of Milwaukee will be donated to either the Wisconsin Historical Society or the Askew School of Public Administration at FSU.

Your proposition is that 27,692 (10%) of these ballots which were marked by real electors in a real election cannot be read correctly by an optical scanner. I look forward to performing this test and seeing what the real number actually is when real an not imaginary ballots are examined.

On matters of public policy as important as: How shall we conduct elections, Evidence not speculation is what is needed.

Next January, hopefully, the nation will get some much need evidence of how midwestern urban voters mark paper ballots.

Lou Dobbs's odd reference to the supposed voter registration problems seemed to be a partisan nod toward the GOP and their yet unproven claims of "voter fraud." I was happy to see the fired US Attorney Iglesias recently come out in the PBS's NOW program and state that it was his highly informed and knowledgeable opinion based on his investigations as a USA that the GOP "voter fraud" charges are bogus and an attempt to favor the GOP in elections. And Iglesias is a card-carrying Republican who was origninally appointed by Bush himself at the beginning of his first term, thus adding to his credibility.

I like the comments about having to wait for the vote results.... BFD... has this nation become soooooo impatient that it is willing to have an election stolen so they can have quick results? I don't think so. It is the media who want instant results. Well, they can just wait. I think it is fabulous this whole issue is finally being taken seriously by the powers that be.

... OMSmedia squirmed...

"Sample: http://www.sccgov.org/portal/site/rov/\"

But there's nothing there on overvotes or undervotes or spoiled ballots...

So once again OMSmedia has no actual references for the apparent disinfo it is spewing...

... that's like 0 for 5 for this character since I showed up here, I think?

OMSmedia

Sometimes things can have a contradictory look and feel to them:

"The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything."

("Joseph Stalin" quoted on Bradblog banner), compared with:

"Stalin and company actually presided over many thousands of perfectly honest elections with untampered ballots"

(Bradblog poster). But even if Stalin was providing "good elections", he was a bad guy:

A giant cross commemorating the victims of Stalinist purges in the 1930s has been erected at a ceremony near Moscow.

The wooden cross - 12.5m high (41 ft) and 7.6m wide (25 ft) - was placed in Butovo, at the site of a former execution ground.

At least 20,000 people were killed there by Stalin's secret police, the NKVD. The first killings occurred exactly 70 years ago.

(In Memoriam, emphasis added). Good guys or bad guys, if the above is true, can bring "good elections" can't they?

And so to focus on the inanimate aspect may be problematic. It is like saying what a bad gun it was that murdered the innocent victim, but forgetting about the person who pulled the trigger.

Can you remember the "purple finger elections" in Iraq that were touted as the end of WMD tyranny unhappiness water shortages electrical shortages violence whatever in Iraq?

Was it the good guys doing those purple finger elections or was it the bad guys?

It must give democracy a bad name to see a few purple fingers in the midst of masses of bloody fingers.

After the widely touted purple finger elections, which were to teach Iraqis "good democracy" (bushie demockcrazy) from "bad democracy" (Iran), the purple fingered government said:

"Until our armed forces and border guards are strong enough, we believe we need the Iranians to help us do that at this stage and to stand by us.

"We also need them [Iran] to talk to some neighbouring countries with whom Iran has strong relations to maintain security within Iraq. As you know, some of the terrorists infiltrate into Iraq from neighbouring countries."

(Iraqi PM on 8/8/07, emphasis added). No mention of those who spent 1.5 trillion dollars on Iraq. Bushie Iraq policy is like a whore who pays her johns to do her instead of the other way around.

So, if we do not also focus on the election officialdom that is providing the good or bad elections, we may be paying the election officials and EVM makers to do us with the "best available".

Don't hold your breath waiting for me to celebrate!

Jeez Zap....when did I become an 'IT' I was hoping you were a little more techno savvy so I wouldn't have to post the whole link:
http://www.sccgov.org/po...VgnVCMP2200049dc4a92____

you might have to cut and paste that: (highlight/CTRL-C/CTRL-V) or (highlight/Command-C/command-V) for the enlightened ones.

For BF: Mikel never said it was 10%..I was just averaging from Over/Undervotes/Rejected from CA websites that post them (pre-DRE) and the Miami/Dade-2000 sites.

... OMSmedia evaded...

"For BF: Mikel never said it was 10%..I was just averaging from Over/Undervotes/Rejected from CA websites that post them (pre-DRE) and the Miami/Dade-2000 sites."

... and the painfully lame attempts at misdirection continue...

My question was: "your cite (reference) for 10% of opscan ballots lost is...? And, as most of California votes on opscans to begin with, the reason county officials never mentioned this loss rate would be...?"

And instead you try to drag in unrelated data from 7 years ago and from across the continent?

Strange that you have no figures available for the 2006 elections in California wherein hundreds of thousands of voters used paper ballots in opscans... or perhaps you do, but those figures just don't support the lies you're trying to spin here...

Hmmm..I wonder why slightly right leaning Lou has done no research or investigative reporting" on the "vote caging" scandal..is it all just to much truth for him...?