As long as their using that hackable shit, the paper trail won't matter one bit.
When will the paper trail be printed ?
My guess is right after the fake totals are produced.
There is no way I'll ever trust the voting process again,
unless its hand counted paper

More weird stuff in Florida

This is strange, but they assure us everything is OK.

Ya sure!

My simple question: What reason would ANY politician give for supporting "paper-less" voting machines as opposed to having a paper trail?

Awwww, I long for the days when Republicans simply gathered and prayed for bad weather to keep voters from voting.

Ok... ok.... it's not a huge step, but it's a bit of progress... I can dig that.

Frankly, the 51-0 vote caught my attention more than anything; that's a good sign.

I wonder if/when Max Cleland will weigh in on this. He was an enormously popular governor and one of the first big casualties of electronic vote rigging.

woops...meant Senator, not Governor.

A step in the proper direction ... and this after they did a "voter ID" law that was held to be unconstitutional.

I agree that if they use any machine with network capability to count the votes they still have a problem even tho they can recount.

The tabulators and scanners need to be secure stand alone machines with extremely secure audits.

Strange isn't it that when the American public might vote for a different administration everyone is getting concerned about the electronic voting machines being accurate. Could be they wouldn't be able to change the landslide getting this administration out of power.

Right on TexasLady. HAHA

The only thing "pertinant" I see about a 51-0 vote to basically do "nothing" is that now the machines need to be outfitted with printers.. which means more cost.. and more tax-payer dollars unanimously (sp) agreed upon to go to the same companies making unreliable and hackable voting systems.

I don't count this a "step in the right direction", I count this another obfuscation that serves no real purpose.

Progress? that would be a 51-0 vote to remove electronics from the voting process all together. Except the fax/phone calling of station totals up to the next level, that is..

So are there systems where the voter can actually verify that their vote is correct on paper right then and there?

Meaning, they vote, hit enter, it prints on a tape reel that the voter can view right then and there, the machine asks the voter to look at the printout and verify if all is correct with a yes or no.

If not, what's the use? As FLORIDIOT said, how is this better if the totals are printed after being hacked?

These corrupt corporate/fundamentalist fools don't care, they think they are doing the right thing. Ick!!!!

I'm with Floridiot & Savantster:

How is it a step in the right direction if you also have to say
"... what they seem to be calling for down in Georgia is "paper trails". The worthless, uncounted little "voter-verifiable" toilet-paper roll tapes which are almost never counted at all and, in the case of Diebold machines, have turned up completely blank on the busiest voting machines during the most recent Ohio election...."

I dunno, boys & girls, sounds like a step in the wrong direction to me.

Sounds like another lie & another sham. Do something that sounds good but has no meaning.

Call it something pretty & tie it in a bow, it's still a lie & a sham, a lie & a scam.

PAPER BALLOTS. AND PENCILS. PERIOD.

Who cares how long it takes to count them. Isn't this what Canada does?

NeilDeal.. problem is, you look at your paper and the paper has what you want.. But the machine records something else.. That's the problem with machines, they can do what ever you tell them to. Unless the "count" is based on that "paper", the paper is [potentially] useless. And from what I've seen, most places won't use the "paper trail" as the official tracking system -ever-, even if the machines don't seem right..

Not to mention, what good does it do to have a "cash register receipt roll" type paper output when the whole POINT was to have "accessability for the handicapped" (being blind and such)?

And Joan, PENS.. not pencilss I'd prefer black magic markers, permanant..

Joan # 13

Yes, yes, yes........PAPER BALLOTS and PENCILS...!! That IS what we use up here in Canada and simple as it is, it works.......no corruption and there's a legitimate papertrail to count if needs be......aka "the original paper ballot that was cast".

Keep up the fight y'all.......and good luck...!!!

Sorry Savanster......didn't mean to ignore you ( #14). Magic markers ARE a good idea.......maybe next time we go to the polls up here, those could be adopted. But the lowly pencil worked just as good in January when we outsted our corrupt government.....YEAAAHHHH..

Savantster
Isn't that what a paper backup should be? In case exit polls go awry, poll workers go to the paper printout and do a manual count?

I think that this would be good because it seems there will always be some electronic aspect to the vote tabulation. You gotta have something to recount in case it comes to that, right?

Our country doesn't even seem to have a clue that vote fraud can happen here. It's bloody scary. We all need to get a grasp on how the process works and what to look for (fraud wise) so the vote can be protected.

Actually I wouldn't mind the basic paper ballot, Germany seems to do ok with them.

As for disabled people, Have a machine that has a brail printer. There are solutions to these problems, whatever method is used.

Yes, definitely a step in the proper direction.

They were going in the direction of no paper audit trail.

And they had passed a voter ID law which was nothing more than a veiled poll tax. The courts threw it out as unconstitutional.

Now they are headed in the direction of auditable machines and they have lost the urge to blame the victims, the voters.

Clearly the direction to go.

Who would operate a bank like this? Or even a convenience store? These voting schemes are more easily rigged than a TV game-show, while the merely monetary stakes are greater the entire national treasure; it's our whole government.

So, we're supposed to press buttons and someone will come out and tell us who the winner was. And then you're viewed as some sort of a "conspiracy theorist" if you want to know how we can check that.

There is only one way to insure honesty in our voting system. All voting in the USA should be by printed paper ballots, no scanners, no dubious and deceitful Diebold machines, no fill in the blank readers. Look at the new gainfully employed retired counters Bush can brag about adding to the economy. So what if we have to wait until morning to get the results or even if it takes a week. That is better than knowing that your vote didn't count and that some corporate entities rigged the damn thing. Throw all the Diabold machines in the dumpster and watch the adminstration lose all the next elections. Bring back the honest vote!

The Amish want no electronic machines because they think machines are evil.

No disrespect to the fine Amish folk, but good machines are ok, but bad ones are not.

Not all machines, including the one Brad Blog runs on, are bad.

If we get rid of bad people, bad policies at election headquarters, and bad machines, then the good machines can serve us.

I do not know how long that will take. But it is probably in the vicinity of a decade ... if we last that long.

Purely paper ballots and purely human counting will work just fine until then.

#21 Dredd,

I'll say this for the Amish--they may have been on to something way before the rest of us ever 'got it'!
We bought our farmhouse from an 'old world catholic' couple, who are similar to the Amish in dress & way of life.
They were very well-read & aware of everything going on in the world & interesting to talk with.
No TV--but they had an up to date library with periodicals & spent time every day reading.
Organic farming methods--no chemicals.
They used generators, wind etc. instead of the local electric company.
Well water instead of the water company.
Draft horses instead of tractors.
Slaughtered their own meat, had their own herb & vegetable garden & canned their own food.
Used a wood stove to cook & another wood stove to heat.
Sold their produce, baked goods & wood crafts on Saturdays at the open market in town, which they arrived at in their home-made horse drawn buggy.

The point is--they were not at the mercy of rising prices--free of harm from "the Man".

Re: Comment 13

Yes, Canadian votes are done in pencil and hand counted. The counting is done by employees of Elections Canada, and in front of representitives of multiple politicial parties...and any concerned individuals who ask politely. Scrutineers are NOT actually allowed to touch anything. It's a "no trust" system.

Re: origional post

I wonder if the Diebold representitive demanded a recount....

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