Completely different!

http://origin63.blogspot.com/

Why can't we just call it as we see it, "Neo- Fascism"
or just plain "The Brown Shirts"

One guy in Greenwalds comments brought it up, but I suppose that would make it too easy for the LGFers to shoot down his arguments, which is hilarious, because they argue against him exactly the way he explains that they argue against him, then deny they argue that way

Good pick, Brad

And the spy stories so far (NSA, etc.) are at best the tip of the iceberg (link here).

As I said a year ago this regime has done more spying on Americans than any foreign power, and more than any regime in history.

Even the left wing who already suspect bu$hit would gasp if they knew the extent of the illegal spying by the neoCon bu$hites.

USE THE LANGUAGE!!! No more liberal/conservative. We are PROGRESSIVES and they are REGRESSIVES. Much more accurate monikers. Language works for Rove and can for the opposition.

Good point, Greg #5. It's one I've made myself many times. Unfortunately, however, a true Regressive has so little linguistic sensitivity, let alone intellect, that the distinction is lost on him.

As an avid student of North Korea, I like the simile that was used in the text, comparing the neo-con "Cult of Bush" as being similar to the "Cult of Kim."

In North Korea, both Kim il Sung and Kim Jung Il can do no wrong (despite the distinct disadvantage that the Elder Kim is dead).

It is said there that the Dear Leader was born on the summit Mount Paektu (the largest in the country). Angels descended from heaven to attend to him.

(In reality, he was actually born in Novosirbirsk, USSR.)

There is a refsual to admit to starvation in the DPRK. And the divide at Panmunjom is to keep the decadent west out of the Glorious Worker's Paradise, not to pen them in as you would sheep.

In reality, the people can't see what is happening to them.

Power failures are common every day in the Hermit Kingdom. And the people scrounge in the forest to eat branches and leaves from trees and grass because the food rationing system only works for the most loyal cultists in the capital.

(Indeed, if you are not loyal, and yet still live in Pyongyang, you still starve.)

The same is true for our friends in the neocon cabal.

They see Bush as heaven-sent to begin the process of the End Times exactly as described in the books of Daniel and the Revelation of St. John the Divine.

In reality, they are killing the world. And, little do they know, THAT ALL THE PREDICTIONS OF THE REVELATION, SAVE FOR THE LAST 7 CHAPTERS, CAME TRUE IN THE FIRST CENTURY A.D.

Additionally, their frame of mind is incorrect. Yes, there are predictions of things to come in Revelations.

HOWEVER, ACCORDING TO MY NEW TESTAMENT CLASS BACK IN COLLEGE, REVELATIONS WAS NEVER, REPEAT, NEVER MEANT TO BE VIEWED AS A CHECKLIST... OR EVEN AS A PROPHETIC BOOK AT ALL!

The whole point of this book, indeed the entire Bible as well, was meant to give hope and encouragement to Christians.

You see, in the early years, the Romans threw the Christians into a ring with lions, who promptly ate them and/or mauled them to bits.

So, the LORD (Yahweh, the Personal God) gave these visions to St. John so he would write them down and give them to the early Christians... as a sign of hope. Keep the faith, because the LORD would win in the end.

(I know... PREACH PREACH PREACH, Mr Blue Sky.)

But there are those who take the words and teachings literally and refuse to take a critical look at the Bible and at what they are doing.

Instead of giving hope and encouragement to people, they are denying hope and encouragement to those who desperately need it... and even taking it away from those who (still) have it left.

Shame on them... and may the LORD help us all.

Ahhh the neoliberalcons revealed......

No...they are certainly not either one...either conservative or liberal...

Doug

Fine column... I think Progressive and Regressive are pretty good terms for the time being, although I''m not sure "Progressives" will do in the long run. I've brought this up before (some time ago, so won't belabor it). --- The fact of the matter is that the way of looking at the world as conservative or liberal are two sides of the same coin - although there are strands of thought in each that bear cultivation in an "alternative" view - another coin altogether. A good start in looking at this issue is Christopher Lasch's book "The True and Only Heaven --- Progress and Its Critics". (I don't agree with it entirely, but it's a good way to start thinking about the issue.)

(MrBlueSky --- There are good sections on Protestant and Calvinistic religious traditions and views of the human condition and how they have, contrary to popular belief, been put aside and even denigrated and propagandized against by the conservative/liberal worldview of unlimited economic progress.)

The point is that an alternative tradition has always been around. It is found in democratic views that have been said to be admired but have been, in reality, displaced by the economic ideology. (Economics are behavioral systems, not scientific laws; something not comforting to those with a vital stake in the system.) It is found in certain religious traditions and in agrarianism and populism in most of its manifestations.

IMO, it's patently necessary to develop and grow the alternative view - and there is plenty to draw from.

The neocons and their enablers and supporters are last ditch. Doesn't strike you as incredibly strange that a group of people would try to cover up everything that really matters --- global warming, dwindling oil production, population pressure, loss of community, ecosystem devastation - frankly, the visible end of industrial civilization (industrial civilization is oil civilization) in the absurd pretense that bottom-line concentrated capital is as vital and useful as ever?

I saw neoconservatism develop and I couldn't believe my eyes. I always thought this fearful and blind group would wither away under the assault of reality. But it got stronger and stronger, using every regressive strand visible. Eventually, it came to the point where there was no route left but fascism - letting in the fascist element (home-grown crony capitalism as the easiest route) and drawing on elements of "escape from freedom" within the population - because there is no longer an iota (within the neocon political constellation) of courageous facing-of-reality and determining the best course of action. "Making our own reality" in neocon terms is nothing but a fatal loss of courage. The only possible way life can continue is in the balance and courageous interaction of "reality" and conscious, intelligent action.

I could go on a lot more, but at least I got a little off my chest!

Of course, a loss of courage is often manifested and encapsulated in "cultishness" (and the bullying personality). I agree entirely about that we are faced with a cult, not a conservative viewpoint by any stretch of the imagination.

Doug E #2, Greg #5

I see things as who did what. The votes in the congress cannot be covered up or made classified. Or The Dick would have done it.

Therefore the votes of the congress are out in the open, and so are the votes of the republican president. No vetoes is his vote.

The votes do not lie. The republicans have voted for everything wrong. They support the wrong Iraq debacle, health care debacle, spy on americans debacle, corrupt voting machine debacle.

The votes tell the truth, and the votes are showing what the republicans have done.

It is cowardly to blame those who did not vote for these things, and let the republicans off the hook, and instead blame the democrats who have no power, but only have strength.

I see things in votes Doug, and I see that you consistently tend to confuse issues to the point you do not know which party gets accountability when America is damaged. That is suspicious to say the least.

Katrina is a republican party, Iraq is a republican party, world record deficits is a republican party, voting machine fraud is a republican party, oil barrons sucking the life out of us is a republican party, and the greatest illegal spy programs in American history is a republican party.

Jack Abramoff and Noe were invited to the republican party, and they want us to pay for their party.

You are not a party guy right Doug?

When you say welcome to the republican party, you can count me out.

Because I count the votes and those votes count.

Dredd.. one of the problems of "the vote tells the truth" is that the message in the voted on item isn't singular... that is, you vote "yes" on a bill that covers several topics, and some of those topics might not stand on their own (which is WHY they mix-match this shit)..

I think, in order for your description to be more valid (and I think it should be), we need to have rules put in place that say a "bill" or "proposition" can only address ONE issue.. none of this "here's an education bill, and I'm going to slide some gun laws in with it, and some drug statues.. oh, and some campaign funding rules".. We need to keep this mess straight forward.. Politicians, on the other hand, LIKE to obfuscate.. makes it easier for them to cheat, lie, steal, and hide their actions.

that is about the dumbest thing i have ever read.

whether or not you pledge blind loyalty to one man makes you a liberal?! i do not pledge blind loyalty to bush, or mcain, or rice, or ashcroft or anyone else. i have had many disagreements with their views and have stated as much. yet, i am continually ridiculed as a "right wing troll" however in this forum. so, i dub that incredibly stupid.

interestingly, the people who like this are Left thinking people on abortion, gun rights, social spending, defense, and a nice assortment of other things, especially your intrepid leader at this blog.

thanks stalin, i mean brad.

Poopybrain..

I think YOU missed the point.. It's ILK LIKE YOU (or so I'd guess from this post of yours) that call your fellow "conservatives" "liberals" as soon as they disagree with Shrubby.. that is, YOU call those you don't like "lefties" without knowing -anything- about their views.

I happen to be an AVID supporter of the Second Amendment right to bear arms. For me, that includes ASSAULT RIFLES (and NO, I'm not a hunter). I ALSO think we need a STRONG MILITARY, but I think we need "smart people" in there, not the dredges of society and criminals looking to avoid jail/prison time. Social spending? Lemme guess, you support giving billions to billionares (of tax-payer money), and are against making sure all Americans are educated and fed and sheltered? oook.. so you don't mind giving your hard earned money to rich people, but fuck the poor who are mostly only poor because that's how the rich people keep the machine running?

And abortion is a different issue all together.. There are a LOT of "old school Republicans" who are PRO CHOICE.. and some moderate Dems who are PRO LIFE (and anti-gay.. go figure).

and you are a moron, simple as that. The article pertains TO YOU.. YOU are the kind of people it's talkig about. You, like many of the morons who responded on that other blog, PROVE the point with your rebuttle.. what a tool..

Savanster,

Your so right about me. I am not interested in anyone elses opinion. That is why I keep coming here. man, you got me, dead bang.

You are a 2nd amendment advocate, good for you. Really. I am glad to hear that. the rest of what you were talking about is gibberish. That someone does not tow the stereotypical line on conservatism and liberalism was my point!! You cannot say that someone is simply one or the other because of views on a particular issue, but as a whole of their views. So boiling it down even further to agreement or allegiance to one person is even more absurd. My last paragraph in my last post was directed at brad. He is left on all those issues, and unabashedly so. If you come a little to the right on some, and I to the left on others, well, that is how the cookie crumbles.

To say the article is "stupid" is to say you don't understand that "blind supports of Shrubby" will turn on their own in a SECOND..

If you're a right-wing troll (your assertion, not mine), then you may well not be one of the "blind followers" who calls anyone who "disagrees with you" a "liberal" or "lefty"..

I guess the problem is, you don't clearly state a point.. and since you bascially only stated "that article is dumb", all I could go on is that you are "a right wing troll", as you put it, and ascribe your lack of processing to that.

The reasoning and points in the article are ACCURATE.. just because they don't apply to you is no reason to doubt them..

oh, savanster,

you can do a little better than "poopybrain." what are you, in like the 3rd grade or something? it is difficult to take someone seriously who is deriding me as a "tool" or a "moron" when you call someone a poopybrain. really, what a biting retort. a scintilating jab, a scathing rebuke!! i shall henceforth and forever more hang my head in shame at being discovered as to my true nature. alas, a poopybrain!!

dont burn my fries, i will tell your manager. and no, i would not like to increase the volume of them. just katsup. thank you, and please count my change carefully.

we don't serve fries at KFC.. sorry

Oh... gonna bother to rebut any of my points? where I state that just because you don't treat "conservatives" the way the lock-step Shurbby supporters do doesn't mean it's not happening?

Or are you going to decend into typical right-wing tactics once the conversation goes badly for you.. I mean, you've kind of rebutted one point.. you -clearly- stated you think I'm some kind of fast food worker, something you phrase in a context to denote as some kind of job for "lessor humans".. Nevermind that those kinds of jobs are the ones we're getting more of, and losing more and more of our "professional" and "industrial" base.

and if you want to tell my "manager" anything, you'll have to go up the street from the fast food stores, up to the tech complex.. and get past security.. and into the largest Tel-Com in the world's offices... Then you can find me not far from him, sitting in my cubicle, telling computers what to do with $12 billion a year in phone calls. Be sure to let him know your fries are cold, hmmk?

i did bother to rebut your points, all at once. must i go through every social issue and discuss them? those are getting off the topic of this blog. the point was weather we can judge someone a liberal or a conservative based on a small sampling of their views. you disagree with this, and so do i. we differ in that i further disagree with labeling someone right or left based on whether they like bush or not. if the first point is stupid, it follows the second is as well. that was the point of the article, and hence the point of my ire.

and when i drive up to your workplace to speak with your boss i will do so driving my mercedes. e320, the gold one. nice actually. or do you think the bmw would be more appropriate? maybe my italian motorcycle (moto guzzi), it gets better gas mileage.

i used to work in one of those fast food joints. i lived in a bad neighborhood, and went to public school as a kid. later i went to college and bettered myself and eventually moved up in the world. i have some contempt for those who think good things should come to them without hard work, rarely does it work that way. so if we have more fast food joints and less people cutting their own path in the word who am i do argue with them? that is their personal choice. i have come to grips with this reality while trying to help my family members to elevate themselves. they complain they cant go to school, or save money for a house or retirement. for years they complain and work crappy jobs. in the meantime i bought a 2600 sq ft home, and the aformentioned cars. last year i got married and paid cash for all of it, honeymooned in HI. after all that i have 40k in savings. all in 6 years. before that i lived in a dive and owned nothing. no one helped me through that.

"i did bother to rebut your points, all at once"

you mean, with comments like

"you can do a little better than "poopybrain." what are you, in like the 3rd grade or something"

"dont burn my fries, i will tell your manager"

? hmm? The post you were commenting on said "To say the article is "stupid" is to say you don't understand that "blind support[er]s of Shrubby" will turn on their own in a SECOND." .. that is, it might not apply to YOU, but it's an EMPERICAL OBSERVATION that you called "stupid".. know who else called emperical observations (of gravity, no less) stupid? the Church.. people with agendas refuse to see fact, they only see their twisted manipulations.. like you..

This was totally unanswered.. "I guess the problem is, you don't clearly state a point.. and since you bascially only stated "that article is dumb", all I could go on is that you are "a right wing troll", as you put it, and ascribe your lack of processing to that.".. and, I stand by that. You did the same thing in a few other posts. You don't seem to be able to come out with a reasonable statement off the bat.. but instead it takes you doing nothing but trying to "laud your money over people" to get you to put together coherent sentences. Quite telling, actually.. that the only think you make sure people don't get confused about is how much money you have.. Grats! .. drug deals and pimps laud their bling and mercedes too.

"we differ in that i further disagree with labeling someone right or left based on whether they like bush or not. if the first point is stupid, it follows the second is as well. that was the point of the article, and hence the point of my ire."

And the meat of all this, since this is what the thread is about. Apparently your reading comprehension is pretty shitty.. The article is about ONE THING.. the observed FACT that there are a LARGE NUMBER of people who are vehement Bush supporters who DO turn on "conservatives" as soon as they say "anything" negative about this Administration. What makes no sense to me is why you think the article is "stupid" since all it does is points out a FACT.. That's what's strange to me. But then, I've never been able to twist my thinking so out of logical workings as to be able to comprehend the typical "right wing troll". Kind of a secondary point of that article, I guess.

as far as your either not understanding, or not caring and using your intellectual dishonesty as a shield.. The -fact- that we're losing "good paying jobs" and have more and more fast-food and service sector jobs is the problem. See, you have your tiny thick mind stuck on "I got mine! fuck you, get your own! it can be done!" and not paying attention.. The PROBLEM is, there is less and less for people to "get".. it's being funneled to the "top 10%". To pretend that money and resources are "limitless" and "anyone can grab what they want" is to ingore MORE FACTS and ignore more emperical observations. The fact of the matter is, there just isn't enough to go around with the VERY FEW on top taking ALMOST EVERYTHING.. get it? probably not...

I leave you with this, not that you will see the blatant hillarity of your patheticism..

"and when i drive up to your workplace to speak with your boss i will do so driving my mercedes. e320, the gold one. nice actually. or do you think the bmw would be more appropriate? maybe my italian motorcycle (moto guzzi), it gets better gas mileage"

"i have some contempt for those who think good things should come to them without hard work, rarely does it work that way."

I guess this is the bit that sticks in my craw the most. What kind of moron thinks "we can all have lots of nice stuff, we just have to go get it"? The American Dream died over 100 years ago.. resources are limited.. 80% of all there is to "own" in this country is owned by 20% of our society (from last I did the breakdowns). That doesn't leave much for the rest, does it. Just because you were able to scratch up a few rungs and get some "nice things" doesn't mean "everyone can". Not to mention, what about those that aren't all that smart? They can't do what ever job you do, that's why you do it.. does that mean they deserve to starve to death? or freeze to death? all so you can have a second car for show?

I am so sick and tired of scum who have the mentality "I got mine".. gang bangers strung out on drugs are like that.. I'd think someone who's "educated" and "bettered themselves" would be above that, but instead, they drive the problem and encourage it to spread. The worst part is, they (and you) are too ignorant to see that they are being played by the richest 2% of our society.. both you and the strung out banger have the same level of understanding of your world.. but the banger has an excuse.. extreme poverty kills your ability to be rational.. wonder what the excuse is for non-empoverished people who think they are important because they own a mercedes and bmw. Truely pathetic excuse for a human being.

what's more telling and bothersome is that you don't see that "rich people" are afflicted much worse with "wanting something for nothing".. why the hell do you think the Stock Market is there? moron.. It started out as a good idea.. a way for companies to get more capitol to expand.. now it's a lottery for middle class, and with proper "tinkering", a cash-cow for rich people. The "Market" is what's killing our economy, killing our industrial base, destroying millions of lives.. but it's a great thing for those who want "something for nothing".. If you'd bothered to take any psychology or sociology courses while in college, you'd know that human nature tends to have us want to work.. earn our keep. This "I want minz and don't wanna do nuthin for it!" mentality isn't natural, it's observed by watching rich people get more and more for doing nothing.. makes us "jealous" and angry and so we cop the same attitude (without the resources or ability to effect the same results).

Anyway, I'm done with you, poopybrain.. I think that name fits, in the grander scheme of things. You're a typical right-wing nutjob.. and that's fine.. you're entitled. It's just such a waste of space and air and resources.. makes me sad.

my reading comprehension is subpar you say?

"Now, in order to be considered a "liberal," only one thing is required - a failure to pledge blind loyalty to George W. Bush."

direct from the article. that is a stupid comment, and you are defending it. that is the meat of our discussion, and i use that term loosely with you.

need i mention once again, i was a "have not" and did something about it. if that disgusts you, why are you feeding the top 2% by working at the largest telecom company around? can everyone hear the hyopocrite in that comment?

maybe i did not express my "contempt" comment in a way you like. sorry, but i hate people who have nothing, complain about it, and do nothing else. work, think. do something. when, and indeed if you fail, then ask for help. the people i was lamenting in my own family in my last post drink and smoke their money away, then complain its not there. i see that too much. and it breaks my heart to hear them talk about buying a home someday to raise their kids in. it will never happen for them at the rate they are going.

some not so bright people have made millions just working and saving. i know a man, a good man who grew up a in the 40's became a mechanic in the 50's and 60's and saved his money. he paid for his kids college, and some of his grandkids too. he never made a 6 figure income. today he drives a new cadillac. he gets a new one every few years. people like him should be role models for the rest of us. not the rap stars.

i am not rich, btw. my wife and i combined dont tick over 100k per year. its called saving money.

you mention the stock market is killing us. that has been a very usefull tool for me. and it can be for you. my retirement money is in there. my downpayment for the house came from investments. and yeah, i went to college, for engineering. i have no background in finance. if i can do it, so can you. you seem a reasonably intellegent guy. i encourage you to give the motley fool website a look. there is some good to be had in stocks and bonds still, especially in this economy.

I'll not bother pointing out how you are attempting to cherry-pick a statement to try and prove a point, because to disprove your distraction and disinformation I"d have to post several paragraphs of the bit from here. If you READ the article, Greenwald isn't saying "he subscribes to that argument", but he goes on to explain the graph you picked as the view of MANY of those on the "right wing fringe".. That is, he explains how it's the right-wing nutjobs who ascribe to that premise. Yet, either you can't understand the connections made between 2 or 3 paragraphs, or you are intentionally trying to decieve.. Congrats.. yet another intellectually dishonest thing you're doing.

"you mention the stock market is killing us. that has been a very usefull tool for me."

And that's my point.. You are content to get "something for nothing".. you aren't working hard for that return, you're getting some money to pay bills, then have enough extra to shove in the investments. Some say "good for you", I say "what about the millions of Americans who don't make enough from their 2 jobs to pay their bills.. how do they get free money like you?".. you have no logical response, trust me. There are a lot of people in Middle Class America that are too dim to see that near 60% of our society is left out of the "market" because they can't make ends meet.. and they don't care.. why? they are busy busting their asses to survive too.. Yet, billionares are making sure they don't have to pay taxes and convincing the "average intelligence" middle class folks that it's good for them (which has been proved to be a lie, over and over and over). Things like this bullshit capitol gains tax break they are trying to push.. who benefits more, you, saving paying taxes on your free $15,000 for the year, or that billionare not paying taxes on his free $650,000,000 ? And, it's a "tax policy" that esentially ignores 60% of our society.. why are we passing laws that only benefit the minority?

"need i mention once again, i was a "have not" and did something about it. if that disgusts you, why are you feeding the top 2% by working at the largest telecom company around? can everyone hear the hyopocrite in that comment?"

what kind of moron are you to not see that I'm simply an employee? How is there any hypocricy in having a profession? -everyone- feeds the top 2% indirectly, but REPUBLICANS want to give YOUR TAX DOLLARS to them TOO.. WTF is wrong with you that you can't see that?? They are about to let BIG OIL (need I remind you that they just set the world record for profits?) keep SEVEN BILLION in TAXES, while letting them take oil from PUBLIC RESOURCES, giving them a FREE SIXTY-FIVE BILLION DOLLARS..? Puleez! explain to me how that makes any sense. Deficite screaming out of control, and the answer is to give $7 bill to the richest guys in the country, while fucking over the poorest 1/3 of our country by sucking out a few hundred million dollars. Can't you see that if these pricks would take that $7 billion, they could leave the social programs in place AND still have EXTRA?

"maybe i did not express my "contempt" comment in a way you like. sorry, but i hate people who have nothing, complain about it, and do nothing else. work, think. do something. when, and indeed if you fail, then ask for help."

again.. there are not enough resources AVAILABLE for "the people" just to go get some. What's blinding you to that FACT is because there ARE "limited opportunities" for people to advance. I used to live in the streets, litterally. For 2 years I had no residence (other than my car, for a while). I ended up putting myself through college (racked up $30,000+ in loans) and got a degree in Computer Science. Now I'm a Software Engineer making decent money (still low on the pay scale, but hey.. that's what companies like, right? keep you on the bottom as long as they can.. especially when your job can be shipped off to India?). I KNOW people can "make it", but I also KNOW not "everyone can". What pisses me off about MOST Republicans is that they pretend they give a shit about "the poor", and say shit like "and indeed if you fail, then ask for help" in one breath, then say "those welfare fuckers.. buch of lazy bastards.. fuck them, let them get jobs".. yet, in order for YOUR STOCKS to go UP and you to get FREE MONEY, those jobs are LEAVING THE COUNTRY.

again.. this is pointless. You won't open your eyes to the TRUTH of the world because it would mean conflicts with your selfish ends. I don't invest in the Market (currently, I don't have the funds anyway, too many bills.. student loans, child support, utilities at record highs, mortgage, etc.. being single is expensive that way) because I think it's pathetic that we're encouraged to fuck over fellow Americans to "get ahead". The only reason I have anything going to my 401k (which is invested in the market, unfortunately) is because the company matches 5%, and that is considered "part of the compensation package".. my salary is "lower than it should be" because the company counts that as part of my compensation.. nevermind the fact that I don't have enough left after bills to contribute at present.

Anyway.. like I said.. I'm done with you. You are a typical Repug, intellectually dishonest and willing to shit on other people so you can have your bling.. just like gang bangers. The only difference is, you show your bling in a better neighborhood. I've never been one to buy "showy things".. never been so pathetic as to try and gauge my personal value by the value of the crap I hang off my neck/fingers/wrist/back/ass or drive in.. I guess I'm just not petty like that.

i read the article, and understood it just fine. what he fails to mention is the left turning on its own in the same way. shehan and feinstein in california is a perfect example. hillary clinton has taken some serious flak over her veiws on the war in iraq. no mention of this in the article? imagine that. another left wing weirdo not cleaning his back yard before running off at the mouth.

and you are missing the "truth" about our little world, not me. the truth is, no one is going to help them more than they can help themselves. we have plenty of resources. it just takes some work at it. there are people who are in desparate times who cannot do it themselves. but the vast majority are just too damn lazy. as stated, i put my own people in that category. i have seen it, and i have tried to help them. why dont you give your income over to them or someone else since you have so much compassion? and what makes you think i dont?!

you lived on the streets, so did i. i once had to go 2 weeks without a real meal. you would be suprised what you can do with 5 bucks if you had to stretch it that far. no one came to help me. that was in clintons reign of terror. it was at that time i decided to do something else. i am glad you got somewhere, but if you think your at the end then you are digging yourself in, its not the republicans with the shovel.

be done with me, fine. you cuss too much anyway, and a wise man once said "profanity is the effort of a feeble mind (Kimball)." yours is looking quite feeble indeed. now "go thou and occupy another room in hell" (more shakespeare for your uncultured swine).

"what he fails to mention is the left turning on its own in the same way"

yet no where do you say this, you just say the "premise" is stupid.. 2 entirely different subject matters. can't you see that?

"shehan and feinstein in california is a perfect example"

Oh.. Shehan called Feinstein a "right-wing neo-con"? Must have missed that..

"imagine that. another left wing weirdo not cleaning his back yard before running off at the mouth."

only, if you have paid attention HERE, we [almost] all want ALL the bad politicians out, not just the [overwhelmingly corrupt] Repugs. Course, you also say that he attacks her but doesn't "clean house".. how does that make sense? clearly he doesn't agree with Hillary, right? so.. that's counter to your statement.. he IS looking to clean his back yard.. you can't see that? really?.

"the truth is, no one is going to help them more than they can help themselves"

so that makes it ok for you to shit on people.. cause "they aren't helping themselves".. DESPITE it NOT MATTERING because there IS NOT ENOUGH TO GO AROUND WITH THE CURRENT DISPUSRMENT PATTERNS.. hmm..

"we have plenty of resources. it just takes some work at it."

LMAO.. I think you are melding the two and ignoring the one.. that's typical.. "we have plenty", yet there "isn't enough to go around" with the way we currently spread things about. It's not MY fault you're too dense to get your head around that. And your believing a lie doesn't make that lie become true. You apparently aren't aware of the FACT that the U.S. consumes near 50% of the WORLD'S RESOURCES, depsite only being 7% of it's population.. talk about ignorant..

"but the vast majority are just too damn lazy"

as I said, your mentality is "it's their fault", when the FACTS bear out a different story. That's -exactly- what makes you a Repug.. you keep your head in the sand and ignore truth and fact so you can keep feeding your selfish ends. You've established that time and again with trying to push your "money" in people's face. You have no inherent worth (not even in your own eyes), so you use "things" to try and make it look like you do.. you poor bastared.. sucks to be you.

"why dont you give your income over to them or someone else since you have so much compassion? and what makes you think i dont?!"

LOL.. again, I'm not the one saying "let the rich keep their money at the expense of the poor".. I"m saying "let's tax fairly.. and in this day and age, that means taking a bigger chunk from rich people who don't have to work to get their riches to expand".. I don't complain (much) about paying taxes, or that money going to the needy.. in fact, just the opposite is true. I complain that the money is being TAKE from the needy and given to the wealthy.. *shrug* It's almost humours that you are this stupid as to think otherwise. As to the "specific" point, why should I give away my cash (after having paid taxes on it) to do what the government is supposed to be doing? Why should I give money to rich people, then give more to the poor? The money I've given up to the government should be going to the people who need it, not rich people.

"that was in clintons reign of terror"

nevermind that the economy was picking up. .nevermind that the deficit was PAID and we had a surplus.. nevermind that the Repugs started a witch hunt and landed on a blowjob. Get overyourself..

"but if you think your at the end then you are digging yourself in, its not the republicans with the shovel. "

what does that even mean? lol..

"you cuss too much anyway, and a wise man once said "profanity is the effort of a feeble mind (Kimball)." "

lol.. okies.. yeah, profanity is the deciding factor in THIS day and age.. riiiiight.. so when your veep said "go fuck yourself" to a Congressman on the floor.. what was that? Your assertion of a feeble mind only pertains when profanity is -all- that is present.. not that I'd expect you to understand that. Profanity is part of our mainstream culture. If you want to burry your head in the sand about that too, have at it..

"more shakespeare for your uncultured swine"

LOL.. again.. you're special because you know Shakespear? You're retarded because you have no clue about the real world. You're bitter and selfish and lying to yourself about the state of the planet so you can get more "stuff" to look cool with.

and I responded because I was eating and had nothing better to do... I fully accept that you don't want to learn anything about the world around you. You aren't open to new thoughts.. your brain only processes information that is beneficial to your selfish ends. Once you come to terms with that, you'll do better.. hell, you could become a politician then.. screwing over the masses for profit and doing it with full disclosure to the rest of your brain.. that will help you get around all those laws you think should be broken by government officials..

i have kept responding in some hope that someday you will stop being so cynical and see what else is out there for you. honestly. your assertion that there is not enough to go around is defeatism. there are still immigrants who come to this country with nothing and get rich. there are plenty of success stories of ordinary people. i could be here all day writing about people i know who have done it. dismissing the stock market because of the lame reasons you gave tells me you cant figure it out, not that it is corrupt. and i do not get "something for nothing." i put my money at risk, research my investments, and continually monitor them. there is work involved, if you cannot see that you are even more stupid than i originally thought.

and i am not the bitter person here. i am quite happy where i am in life, it is you that expressed otherwise. nor am i selfish, my philanthropic activities have been part of my finances for years. You glossed over that.

you also entirely glossed over my examples of people drinking and smoking their way to financial ruin. those are personal examples, i have seen that. is it society’s fault? is there not enough to go around for them? no, they sit on their asses and smoke a pack a day each. that is their fault. not mine. not yours. not the president, or congress, or anyone else's. i know a lot of people like that. and i have tried to help them for years. i will continue to try. you could give these people a million dollars each and they would still be broke in a year.

as to our original discussion. this "cult of bush" thing is idiotic. i have no more to say about it, and you are changing the subject. where in that article did he mention taking out bad politicians? his criticism is strictly aimed at republicans, and for nonexistent problems he perceives and you agree with. the harriet myers nomination is a perfect example. almost the entire right wing got up and walked out on bush on that one. are we all now liberals in anyone’s eyes? bush wanted her there, and campaigned for her.

there is plenty of dissent on key issues within the republican party. if you can not see that, you are not paying attention. this piece was neither informative nor entertaining. neither was it factual.

Savantster #11 The answer is ...

The legal structure of our congress does not support a multi-party system, and is designed for a two party system. It is a winner take all affair.

This is not good, but it is reality.

Under the law of the House and Senate, "the Senate divides its tasks among 20 committees, 68 subcommittees, and 4 joint committees" ... "The chair of each committee and a majority of its members represent the majority party. The chair primarily controls a committee’s business" (link here).

Take an example where republicans win 30 seats, independents win 28 seats, greens win 29 seats, and democrats win 13 seats. We can now easily see that this will not work well.

The republicans with 30 seats end up as the majority party. Remember that the majority party and the majority are not the same thing in our system. The majority, in this example, is 70 votes (greens, indys, and dems), but the majority party is the republicans because they got those 30 seats.

Therefore, they get the committee chair on each and every committee, and they get the majority number of members in each and every committee of congress.

So, in our system, the majority of seats would be governed by the minority republican 30 seats.

Anyone see any way to improve this?

I do. The polls show that the body politic favors democrats in the upcoming election, and voting democrats into the majority is the public will.

We would have an easier time prevailing upon them to change the rules.

It should be pro rata based upon percentage of seats.

Committees should be distributed to all parties based upon percentage of seats in a pro rata configuration.

Otherwise, when independents, greens, democrats, and other parties fight each other the republicans always remain the majority party and therefore always control the congress.

So ...

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