At a client's today i overheard a phone conversation - my client was talking with a wealthy friend & client of his in Dallas.
I only (over) heard one end of the phone call but the gest of what I heard.
Person in Dallas is friend of Whittington - what's coming out is not what happened and the accident as discribed does not fit into how they would have been doing a hunt of that sort at that place with those people - or something like that.
So forwhatever it's worth - a 1/2 overheard conversation from the other side of a friuend of the victime
Perhaps someone could check on how well the details fit the type of event they were placed into.

I think all the delays, etc., can be attributed to spin control, which, in the modern political climate, is to be expected. Very little is objectively reported anymore, in my opinion.

Hunting accidents usually have stupidity and carelessness in the mix, and this is no exception.....but.....

It was an accident, and traumatic to those involved, and I fear that maybe a bit too much is being made of it here.

This man has engaged in enough crooked behavior to last us two lifetimes. Do we really need to pick this incident apart in this fashion? There was plenty of fuel in the fire already!

"Now it seems clear that the information that Cheney was the shooter in the incident was even withheld from Bush at the White House for a time. In other words, the White House was informed that there had been "a hunting accident", but not that Cheney was the shooter.
"

Do you really think bush is actually in "charge" , yea right!

I find it very hard to believe that the White House heard something about the hunting accident on Saturday night but the information didn't include the fact that the Vice President was the shooter. Whoever received the call had to ask who the parties that were involved were. Plausible deniability notwithstanding, I can't imagine a conversation about this without the fact that "Cheney shot Whittington" was disclosed.

These people are going to get so caught up in their lies that no one (except the most fervent kool-aid drinkers) will ever believe a word they say. Who knows what really happened? I have to believe the actual scenario was quite different from the story they took almost 24 hours to concoct.

Jeff J.

what type of "hunting" shoots behind the shooter .

Le mans hunting LOL

Bob Bilse --- Spinning the story for the public is one thing. What I'm writing about in the above is that Bush himself was apparently not allowed to have the information right off the bat!

Why?

Well, the video of the press conference is on crooks and liars...I thought Scotty's head was gonna explode...

oh that image is from firedoglake.blogspot.com...

C&L has aout 15 minute video clip from the press conference

Brad,

Where is the evidence to back up this claim?

"Only after Karl "The Architect" Rove interceded was a decision made, apparently, to let Bush know."

Just post a link please, thanks.

Remember that old Hitchcock movie, The Trouble With Harry? I could've seen it being played out like that, if Harry had taken a turn for the worse. What I'd like to know is, was Bush told on saturday night whether Dead Eye Dick was the trigger man? I'm hearing conflicted accounts. The fact that the WH sat on the story for another 18 hours seems to suggest that Bush was indeed told of Cheney's involvement but we all know that WH protocol more often than not is to not tell Dear Leader anything pertinent.

Anyway...

...check out my rant on conservative bloggers who seem to think that they wield a magical talisman that'll protect them when the Rapture comes. If you ever find yourself with a splitting headache and hating everyone in the world in general as is the case with yours truly today, you can either climb a clocktower and make like Dick Cheney or do what I did and put your pain, frustration and misery to good use.

Frankly, I've had it up to here with these assholes at LGF, redstate.org and the Freepers. And I'm kinda pissed that they all piled on Glenn Greenwald yesterday and today for posting something that obviously got them in the vitals.

JP

What's the big deal. It was an accident. Maybe if the guy died, it would make for a story, but this stuff happens alot and not all gets reported. Just because it's the VP in the Bush Admin. people want to blow it up

Ricky, #10

In case you didn't notice:

Q So when did the President definitively know that the Vice President had shot somebody?

A Chief of Staff Andy Card called the President around 7:30pm EST to inform him that there was a hunting accident. He did not know the Vice President was involved at that time. Subsequent to the call, Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove spoke with Mrs. Armstrong. He then called the President shortly before 8:00pm EST to update him and let him know the Vice President had accidentally shot Mr. Whittington.

JR #12:

If they left the disclosure up to a private citizen reporting to a local newspaper that begs the question, would we have found out about it at all? What IF the guy died? It's a PR manuever, but a semi-important story no less.

First; I respectfully disagree with those who say "just forget this" that "it isn't important," that "there are so many other much more important issue to press forward on." You never know what issue will create the tipping point in this presidency.

Second: A man was shot with a GUN and injured seriously enough that he spent at least two nights in intensive care. There most certainly are a number of possible crimes involved here: criminal negligence comes immediately to mind; assault and battery?; discharging a firearm under the influence of alcohol?; the lack of a hunting stamp is probably just a civil infraction (no jail time possible = no crime); the hunting more than 30 minutes after sundown may or may not be criminal in nature (possible jail time?) The Point? THERE SHOULD SURE AS HECK HAVE BEEN A LAW ENFORCEMENT INVESTIGATION.

I have heard/seen two different versions of the Sheriff's part in this. The first I saw an article on the internet which said that the Sheriff learned about the accident from a call for an ambulance and when he went out to the scene where the Secret Service prevented him from interviewing anyone or investigating. Tonight on CBS news I saw the Sheriff telling a reporter that he sent a deputy out the next morning to take a report because it was clearly just an accident.

Third: Evidence problems. The 8:15 admission to the hospital tells me that this event took place in close proximity to that time. How far away from the hospital was the scene of the accident? Did the ambulance have to come from town, or was there, as some say, an ambulance with the hunting party in case Cheney had a heart event? Is it even possible that the secret service and Cheney and others in the party kept Whittington at the scene from 5:30 (when they claim the accident happened) until close to 8:00? Is this delay the cause of his critical condition by the time he got to the hospital?

If the accident took place after 6:15, there was no sun behind Whittington which was claimed to be what blinded Cheney to fact that Whittington was in his line of fire. Cheney should have been required to show the Sheriff exactly what took place and it should have been in the police report.

Since the Sheriff has already said that it was an accident, and that there will be no further investigation, the police report should be disclosable under FOIA/Public Records law. Only ongoing investigations justify nondisclosure of police reports.

Cheney, others in his party and the White House should all have phone records to show when phone calls were made. One would expect a spate of phone calls immediately after the accident.

Where is the DA of the County? Even if the Sheriff doesn't do his job, that doesn't let the DA off the hook.

Ricky:

http://www.whitehouse.go.../2006/02/20060213-4.html

Sandy D #14, the hospital where Whittington was admitted is about a two-hour drive from the Armstrong Ranch, and the hunting party was somewhere within the boundaries of a 50,000 acre estate. that's rather huge.

just driving acros the ranch on a paved road would probably take twenty minutes or so (longer on a gravel road), so it is conceivable that if the ambulance wasn't standing right next to them --out of the line of fire, natch --- but on standby at the main headquarters, which would add additional transit time.

i've read conflicting reports about the transport to the hospital --- that first Whittington was taken to a closer medical facility ("close" being within thirty or forty miles), then helicoptered to the nearest full service hospital in Corpus Christi.

it still doesn't add up, tho.

Ricky - It's been tacked onto the official WH transcript as I mentioned, and as Agent99 gave you yet again above.

Agent99 - Thank you.

Sandy D. - Right on. Want a "job"?

Yeah but to Ricky, the WH transcript isn't good enough, Limpy didn't say it

Over at Wayne Madsen it says this, "According to informed sources on Maryland's Eastern Shore, two years ago Cheney was shooting at ducks from a duck blind in Trappe, a Maryland Eastern shore town where former Secretary of State James Baker III maintains a residence. The sources reveal that Cheney nearly accidentally shot half of his hunting party and Secret Service detail. Eyewitnesses to the Maryland duck hunting incident claim that Cheney is "trigger happy" and a "maniac with a gun."

I can believe it, I had a hunting buddy at one time, that would shoot at anything that moved
I don't talk to him much anymore since he took the neo-con bait, you know the three G's

What's gnawing at me particularly gnashingly is the fact that Darth Cheney is doing this at all. The cost to US of these little adventures is over a million bucks a pop. Tens of thousands of people are dying for his deferred compensation package. Americans are hungry and homeless because of policies he not only endorses, but probably put in *'s head to begin with, and he's off in the boondocks with his own ambulance, medical team, Air Force Two, treating the situation as carefully as he does the rest of the situations in his life.

I find it hard to envision an America where the local cops are going to be willing to discommode anyone as important as the Vice Fuhrer, even as it is true that NO ONE is above the law in our country. Having been places where many heads of state are present, even pre-9/11, the Secret Service and other security personnel are everywhere, and about as affable as the proverbial guards at Buckingham Palace. Your basic cop is going to have a very hard time getting even minimal respect in that environment. I'd say they probably get minimal respect and even a little cooperation with liberal big shots, and a smiling "buzz off" from conservative big shots --- neither would give them the room to do their jobs as if it had been your average citizen.

Three short variations on a theme
----------------------------------------
It can't be pleasant
To have Dick Cheney treat you like a pheasant.

One Middle East dictator
Has seen the drill: "shoot first, explain it later."

Scalia had some luck.
Picture him in that robe --- and then a duck.
--------------------------------------------

http://nightquill.blogspot.com

Well, or go over to HuffPo's Contagious Festival (stupid name) and watch "No Bravery" for a good, wrenching cry... clear the pipes... LOOK at something undeniably REAL.

And, honestly, tuning in to Bob Kincaid's Head On radio show at 4:07pm PT, 7:07pm ET, weeknights, is good for your head too. You get to hear him, and a bunch of cool callers, talking about this stuff. It helps to have it coming in your ears, seat of the pants, full bore. You end up having to call in because you keep talking to him while he's on the air. It's great. Any working class hero who is hating the screwing they're getting on the job, can hear just how the neocons they voted for are killing them. This is great stuff, VERY important. White Rose Society broadcasts his show from their page, and has archives of it there too. So if you can't listen when it's happening, at least you can still catch it.

I guess I'm saying that we HAVE TO pay attention, we HAVE TO fight, we HAVE TO win, and it's going to be HARD. It's relentless, and so we have to learn to breathe in it, keep balance and vision, and FIX THIS GAWDAWFUL APOCALYPTIC MESS.

You have to pay CLOSE attention, but you have to laugh and cry and let off steam. It's up to all of us to get it out to all the rest of us. Ricky? It's okay if you aren't smart enough to think for yourself, but you really should start paying attention to people who wouldn't fire your ass to make the annual report look a little rosier, have you homeless and optionless the minute it serves their ruthless purposes.

Actually, it feels like Cheney shot ME.

Brad (#6): Point taken... however, I didn't intend to infer that you were spinning it, if that's what you thought.

My point was that subjective reporting of incidents regarding public figures is so prevalant in this day and age, that, when such a crisis occurs, an eye is on what negative spin might be put on it, and a desire to attempt to control such spin, is high on the list; it can have a profound effect on how it is handled, however badly (such "handling" often makse the crisis worse than it already was!)..

If it were any other president in recent times, besides this hand-puppet, I would find it most curious. It's GWB, so it doesn't surprise me.

They're likely quite careful what they tell him, to avoid him making any off-the-cuff comments that will embarrass those who really are in charge.

The Perspective of History. Does anybody remember how Teddy Kennedy was pilloried by the press after he failed to disclose for 24 hours the (clearly) accidental death of Mary Jo Kopeckne in a car accident at Chappaquiddic? "When I got back, Mary Jo and the car were gone."

Cyteria: I must be getting senile, but I could swear it was FOUR hours everyone was bitching about back then. Everyone was up in arms because he didn't call the cops for FOUR hours. I could swear I remember saying I didn't find it hard to believe that a Kennedy would have to take FOUR hours to man-up for the ordeal of calling the police about something like that.

Andy Card would not have called Bush at 7:30 p.m. on Saturday merely to say "there's been a hunting accident." The incident was only important to the extent that Cheney was involved. If it had involved Whittington and someone other than Cheney, it wouldn't have even made the news, let alone be deserving of a call from Card to Bush. I don't believe for one second that Card called him without knowing, and saying, that Cheney was the shooter.

Something is definitely not right here.

If you can believe the NYT, they finally hammered out a timeline they can live with. I read it on Huffington Post. What I find strange is the claim the WH was notified in the first hour or so after the shooting; then Rove calls the ranch and learns Cheney is the shooter; then the Pres is informed; Curious George had no interest in anyone but the Pioneers in a return call---isn't that interesting? Anyway, around the same time the Sheriff's department is at first turned away and then told to come in around 8 am the next day.

One news account yesterday suggested the victim broke ranks to fetch some birds he already downed and was "returning" to the hearty band when he failed to announce himself properly. For that he was shot. Today's account said the victim fell "head toward" another member of the group who was prevented from assisting the man by the Secret Service. Was this person also in the line of fire?

I really would like to see one of those cartoon police diagrams of the accident scene. I cannot map the relationships very well.

So, it was treated as political problem from the beginning and continues to be. I expect we will soon hear the justification: the VP is the Second Most Powerful Man on Earth which makes him important enough to be Second Man above the Law, so everything he does is "political" in some way.

My eyes are still crossing from this whole affair.

A shooting involving the Vice President of the United States (the first since Aaron Burr took down Alexander Hamilton); women not the hunters' wives involved in the hunt (Cheney's Swiss Miss?); law enforcement kept away from Cheney for hours upon hours (what is the sobriety turn-around on ancient, bionic Republicans?); attempts by the landowner to soften the blow by reaching out to a local newspaper shill who was a friend of the family (got the the health and fitness reporter instead);

And yet there are those who insist "Nothing to see here. Move along. These are not the droids you're looking for."

Yes, they are.

These goobers were doing what we here in Wild, Wonderful WV refer to as "road-hunting," i.e. driving down the road and periodically blasting the life out of something. The landowner's account said "They got out of their car and went to flush a covey of quail." That's when, at 30 yards' distance, Vice President Fudd "bwasted" Mr. Whittington.

There is no reasonable way to make sense of this. There is a strong likelihood that a crime was committed here, one of those "misdemeanors" referenced in the Constitution.

Someone needs to call Ronnie Earle. After all, Mr. Whittington is from Austin, and that might be enough to get Ronnie interested.

If nothing else, some wiseass reporter needs to shout at Cheney "Sir, is there a bag limit on septugenarian trial lawyers in South Texas?

We mustn't let go of "Fudd-gate."

Okay, I have to amend my position from yesterday. "Fudd-gate" is a legitimate story worth all our time speculating and commenting upon. Mr. Kincaid, you have given us a good label for it all. You know, if we keep it up in terms of Elmer Fudd Cheney, maybe the Repubs will get incensed: How dare you trivialize the serious injury of another human being? You people have no shame! And then they might realize they were the ones who tried to trivialize this story into an unworthy everyday happenstance--no need to report it.

Today's New York Times provided other interesting details.

It seems the Secret Service called the local sheriff shortly after the incident. Instead of coming out himself, he sent a deputy to investigate (the equivalent of Andy Griffith sending Don Knotts). The deputy wasn't allowed to interview Cheney, but took the word of Whittington and/or Armstrong that the whole thing was an accident. The sheriff, who had done no work himself, closed the books on it.

Meanwhile, we're told Andrew Card told Bush that a hunting accident had occurred, without mentioning (or possibly knowing) that Cheney had been the shooter. Nonsense. Then Rove (who found out somehow) tells Bush, "Cheney was the shooter."

All through Saturday night and into Sunday morning, the story stays under wraps. Finally Mrs. Armstrong calls the Corpus Christi paper with the approval of Cheney, who says, "Do whatever you think is right." Meanwhile Whittington "superficial wounds" have him in the ICU unit at the hospital.

People who say this is a minor incident are nuts. What's really surprising is that a high percentage of anti-Bush people are saying this. Maybe they've been watching Chris Matthews too much.

Whittington : Hey cheney we all know your shootin blanks.

Dick of death : Stop busting my ball or you end up on my trophy wall! I'm Warning You!

Whittington : Dick does the SS pump you up in the morning ?

Dick of death : Whittington - One more crack out you become my new hat rack!

Whittington : 5 Deferments

Dick of death : BANG !

In my experience people don't generally act evasively and try to cover things up unless they feel threatened by the truth. And all this blaming the victim is outrageous! I firmly believe that they were afraid the lawyer was going to die (and I thought professional courtesy kept neocons from shooting each other) and were preparing to try to cover the entire thing up forever, or at least until they could come up with some airtight alibi or until Cheney could be sobered up. I'm glad it's getting the attention it is. Keep that evil old fart's feet to the fire, unsavory as that might prove to be.

For Czaragorn: Trust me. This one ain't goin' away, like the Jeff Gannon thing did, or the fact that Bush was miked during the debates, or the links between Bush and Kenny-boy Lay.

This one has legs, because the cover-up is always worse than the incident (see Watergate...Nixon).

1) Secret Service refuses to let sheriff's deputy talk to Cheney, sheriff closes books on case anyway.

2) Sheriff says no alcohol was involved, even though he had no way of knowing this was true.

3) Wounds described as "superficial," when in fact Whittington was in the I.C.U. and had emergency surgery.

4) 18-hour delay before going public with story.

5) Cheney allows his hostess, a housewife, to decide how the information is disseminated.

6) Conflicting reports on how White House was first notified and why they didn't go public themselves.

You're absolutely right, Czaragorn. If this had been just a hunting accident, there would have been no need for a cover-up. It stinks to high heaven.

Actually if Mr. Whittington had died, it would have been a "classic heart attack" and this would have made 3 lines in the back pages.

We will never get the real story because from the local authortities to the news media in South Texas, the Bush/Cheney friends will stick to the story they concocted Sat night. And that group truly OWNS all public services from the border to Corpus Christi.
Nothing gets printed or done without this bunch's nod.

Mr. Whittington is fighting Austin from taking a block he owns to make into a parking lot.
What are the odds now that Mr. Whittington will get to keep his block of land. A small price to pay for keeping his mouth shut.

I just wish Cheney and friends would go back to Utah or wherever he came from and keep out of Texas. Its bad enough we have to have the stench of the Bush bunch.

Well I feel so much better since I read Salina's Sheriff's account that, "Mr.Cheney feels kinda bad" that he shot Mr. Whittington.

We should all rest easy since Cheney felt kinda bad.

You know the next time they tune up his heart the doctors need to be certain he has a heart not just some artificial pump in there.

I have nothing to add to the assessments of #33 and #34. This incident is very, very ugly - the ugliness only revealed by the secretive nature of their handling of it. And there ARE sunset laws; we only have the participants' word for it for the time when the shooting occurred.

Oh yes, I do have one bit of interesting medical info, picked up (if I recall correctly) at firedoglake. An MD wrote there that birdshot taken in the neck is very dangerous, because it's so small that it can enter the circulatory system and cause blockages elsewhere in the body. The contributor told of a young man who had to have his foot amputated for this reason - he'd taken birdshot to the neck some time previous to this.

The New York Times is reporting that Mr. Whittington has suffered a minor heart attack from birdshot that moved into his hear. He is back in Intensive Care.

Someone mentioned on this post about possible birdshot floating around in arteries and causing a blockage.

Some other talking heads act like this shooting is a very minor problem. Too bad we can't experiment on them to see how "minor" it would feel.

Up now at Raw Story - Whittington has had a minor heart attack this morning caused by bird shot which had penetrated his heart.

From all the statements from various hunters about the penetrating power of bird shot and the fact that at 30 yards it will not penetrate the clothing they wear it seems there is again much lying about the conditions under which this occured.

To penetrate the clothing, the chest skin and muscle as well as the heart, it is highly unlikely that it was at 30 yards.

Re Texaslady #39

I guess that report can be read inseveral ways. It's not clear whether the shot got there via the circulatory system or as a projectile.

I see Brad is now tracking the story at the top of the blog.
Hopefully this will become clearer as the day progresses.

Road hunting is illegal in California. (Was? What! Do I have to check to be sure they didn't mess THAT one up on us too? Can't we keep anything we all know? Couldn't we put back the things we all all know? Wouldn't it be great if we could all know the truth? Be an informed citizenry? WHERE's my country?)

#17 Brad

I have a job: I'm a government lawyer.... for the bluest county with the bluest city in a blue, blue state: Oregon.

But I'm glad to throw in my 2 cents for the good of the order.

Glad to have you here, Sandy D! Hope you make it a habit!

Agent 99,
Taking a big crap on our constitution and rubbing our noses in it by wasting our tax dollars on war and junkets
to line their pockets, seems to be the new Republican way

It is SO depressing. It is SO relentless, and SO disorienting, the rapid-fire offenses to everything decent and American, that it truly defies adequate description. When I'm too fried, I go here:

http://video.google.com/...10473912337648&q=bsb

or here:

http://www.bigad.com.au/

or here:

http://gprime.net/video.php/newsreportfromiraq

or here:

http://www.astralwerks.com/fbs/woc/

or all four. If that doesn't fix me, I go hose myself down in the back yard.

I just got the following email;
It seems that the reason there was a 20 hour delay in reporting the shooting was that Mr. Chaney was not gunning for Quail, but rather at one of the horrible Game preserves where they shoot captive big game.

They needed the time to work a cover-up and make sure everyone had the same story.
The man he shot may die.

One report (AP I believe) put the number of buck-shot projectiles embedded in the victim as between 30 and 600. 30 to 600. And one or more against the heart.

This doesn't sound like a joke anymore. Elmer Fudd Cheney must surely have been aiming lower and standing closer to the victim than reports suggest. Various hunters have been blogging about this contradiction---and now the man has a heart attack.

And he was originally reported not merely as "in stable condition" but as in "VERY stable condition". So then he has not just a "heart attack" but a "MINOR" heart attack. If this poor man gets worse or dies, will it be owing to a "casual collision" with a bullet?

The whole story here is the police being turned away. Why? The only answer seems to me to sober Chaney up. Remember, secret service were there and can be compelled to testify against him if they witnessed a crime being commited (see clinton and monica)

So one law enforcement officer could make this all very interesting.....

ABOUT THE CHENEY SHOOTING.........

FORGET ABOUT THE TWO WOMEN THAT WERE THERE. THIS WAS SIMPLY A CASE OF BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN GONE WRONG.

can we get more info on pamela willeford? there is speculation that there was a coverup not only because these guys were drinking but because they were with two women who were not their wives!! what is the history of cheney and willeford???? sounds spicey!

I can see you guys are missing the point. Most states require the reporting of shooting incidents as soon as they happen. Here in Wisconsin the Department of Natural Resources investigates every one of them along with the local police. It is illegal to not report. I wonder if Texas has the same law. IN PARTICULAR the investigation is to see if alcohol or negligence was involved. Since we had a 20 hour delay in reporting it really points to a coverup.

Explain to me if a hunter shoots to his right, why,
better yet, how does he hit a person on his right on
the right side of his face. If I turn to my right, the
person next to me will have his left side to me.
Logic, I shoot to my right; and I hit the left side of
the person to my right. If I hit the person as I
turn to my right, the person on my right has to be
facing behind the hunting party. Hunt forward,
shoot forward. R/Ed

To RICKY (COMMENT #10)

The statement is contained in the timeline posted at https://bradblog.com/archives/00002409.htm COMMENT #141:

Sat Feb 11 7:00 PM CST (8:00 PM EST) – BUSH IS TOLD WHO DID THE SHOOTING. Karl Rove, senior White House adviser and Deputy Chief of Staff, phones Bush and informs him that Cheney was the one who fired the weapon. Rove had called Katharine Armstrong to ask about the shooting incident.

The documentation is presented in COMMENT #142:

Sat Feb 11 7:00 PM CST (8:00 PM EST) – BUSH IS TOLD WHO DID THE SHOOTING. “The Cheney Shooting: A Chronology,” MSNBC website, with reference to Karl Rove having personally informed President Bush;
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11312757/
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11340558/
story and timeline confirmed, with reference to phone call from Rove to Armstrong, in “No End to Questions in Cheney Hunting Accident,” New York Times, February 14, 2006
http://nytimes.com/2006/...t5A&pagewanted=print
timeline confirmed in “Cheney Apparently Breaks Key Hunting Rule,” by Nedra Pickler, Associated Press, February 13, 2006, with quotations from Secret Service;
http://news.yahoo.com/s/...eney_hunting_accident_40
and in “White House Finds Humor in Hunting Mishap,” by Nedra Pickler, Associated Press, Tuesday, February 14, 2006.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/.../cheney_hunting_accident

Richard Hayes Phillips
Canton, New York

There is a great game about the incident, here:
Silent Cheney
Its based on the game Silent Scope and I laughed myself silly when I saw it! Especially the 'Go into the forest and shoot anything that moves... whether it be lawyer, friend, 78 year old... or all three!'

Richard Hayes Phillips

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