Go to http://www.naffis.com/dccams/ and click on the 17th stree camera RIGHT NOW! you can watch the civil diobedience GO!

Hey, check out a GREAT article published in Mother Jones about the protest. It contains several first-hand accounts. You can find a link to the article through my website at All Things Left

Great video!!

The march was so powerful!!! I went with my 17 year old daughter - it was the best thing we have ever done together

Here's a picture of her expression when she found out about those snipers on the WH roof:

http://cd.smugmug.com/photos/37358628-O.jpg

Here's the rest of moy pictures from the day - what an amazing demonstration of who is actually the majority.

http://cd.smugmug.com/gallery/834409

ps - the screaming 'pro-war' people scared my daughter..

There's something going on in front of the White House right now. You can it watch live at http://www.naffis.com/dccams/ then click on the 17th and Penn Ave camera. You'll be looking towards the WH with Lafeyette Park on your left and the WH on the right. The camera is zoomed into an area just infrom of the WH. Earlier it was zoomed out so you could the whole street.

"Rainbow River"

I like it!

Lets ride that wave to freedom. Let the truth flow in the "Rainbow River".

I am chagrined to see that my local media, KING 5 News here in Seattle decided to give considerably more airtime to the counter protestors (which the Seattle Times newspaper said had only about 100 people or so) than to our people (around 100,000 to 300,000 people).

MSM Media bias is still against us but very much out of touch with America today.

Why are the traffic cameras now focused on the trees lining the street?

Do you think they are intentionaly focusing away from the civil unrest? Naah.

Is anyone watching?

And what's with the pink parasol - lol gotta be code pink, repeat, code pink

They've been panning and zooming in and out every once in while. I'd like to know what we are missing.

I don't suppose we'll ever hear about it on the news.

Onyx,

No - I don't suppose the Wolf will lead with this - although Jack Cafferty (with wolf on the CNN Situation Room) may lose his job one of these days by covering just such a story

I think we need to send our own video crew to these events so we can recieve an actual unbiased record for posterity.

Rainbow River Revue Crew. Live from the heart of the America.

Awful lot of horses milling about with DC police mounted on them

Hope everyone's toes are accounted for

Hey, they're showing it on CNN!!

Count the seconds...

Okay, between the time I started typing and my post had time to go up, they moved on to MORE hurricane coverage.

*just shaking my head*

STILL, absolutely nothing going on in DC....

I really did enjoy this video, thanks. What a wonderful feeling to see those beautiful people! It wasn't just the numbers that i found remarkable, but the diversity also.

My conservative home paper, which rarely prints anything that's not in lockstep with the Repubs, printed a story on the rally that took up most of page 2 of the A section in yesterday's paper.

I think we're making some headway here!

Hey y'all, CNN just announced that Cindy Sheehan was arrested in front of the White House today.

Anybody got the skinny?

Sheehan Arrested During Anti-War Protest

By JENNIFER C. KERR, Associated Press Writer 5 minutes ago

Cindy Sheehan, the California woman who has used her son's death in Iraq to spur the anti-war movement, was arrested Monday while protesting outside the White House.

Sheehan and several dozen other protesters sat down on the sidewalk after marching along the pedestrian walkway on Pennsylvania Avenue. Police warned them three times that they were breaking the law by failing to move along, then began making arrests.

Sheehan was the first taken into custody. She stood up and was led to a police vehicle while protesters chanted, "The whole world is watching."

Link to Cindy Arrested

Sadly, the whole world won't be watching it outta US of A cameras I doubt..

Great Video! Thank you Dan Wilcox!

The MSM may ignore us, but we have reached critical mass. We will not be denied. THEY know we are the tip of the iceburg representing the millions who are now in the majority.

Hannah (#17) Which "conservative home paper" carried the sotry?

OT but important. We've Officially launched our website today:

Who's Counting

Here's the link to the introduction by ms in la over at CCN - (Clark Community Network).

I hope you will all check it out, bookmark it and pass it on far and wide! We're on our own and it's up to us. We CAN do this!! Thanks everybody!!

What a strong woman, damn i admire her! In the pic, looked like she was smiling. GO CINDY!! She is gonna do what ever it takes.

What is she going to do next? Burn her bra?

Great idea, Jose! You first.

hi all. Cindy. her sister and about two hundredothers got arrested a little while ago. I have to leave now but there is still another hundred or so to be arrested. I turned around at one point and there was a group of people in various degrees of nakedness all simulating an orgy. I don't know what the hell that was about or how it helps our cause. I don't know who they were. They may have been the anarchist but I'm not sure. WHat the hell was that suppose to prove? THEY didn't get arrested. go figure
ttyl when I get home on Tuesday

Linda (#27):

Da'g! That totally reeks of Karl Rove.

Remember at Camp Casey? We all thought he might poison the protest by putting skinheads into the crowd.

Wonder if he's doing it this time?!!?!?

More on Cindy's Arrest

People like Cindy Sheehan and Jessie Jackson and Jessica Lang want the US out of Iraq now, which is also what al Zaquari wants. So they all want the same thing.
Which would throw Iraq into turmoil and hand victory to the terrorists.

(This is all so predictable... next she'll be flinging pieces of crap at her prison guards, then complaining about pee droplets on her Koran...)

HELLO jose you said
"Which would throw Iraq into turmoil and hand victory to the terrorists."
This is "past tense" as in Iraq IS in turmOIL and the victory has gone to the tERRORist already...where do get your news from,FOX?

Good pic Bluebear2! Look, you can see the cool TAT (left ankle), i read somewhere she had it done recently with Casey's name.

I was there. I watched the whole thing.

Pennsylvania Ave. is like a six lane pedestrian highway in width. No one. No one at all was prevented from passing by, seeing the WH, enjoying their visit if they so chose.

The protestors, about 100 of them actually in the "arrest zone" out of a total of perhaps 500 (not just Cindy Sheehan) took up a small space in front of the WH fence. As I left, the police were slowly processing all of those in the small area (maybe 75' x 40' area) for arrest.

BTW, I stood in one place on Penn. Ave in front of the arrestee section for well over an hour. I wasn't told to move along nor was I arrested.

A final note. This experience has been a real eye opener. The left wing blogosphere, the main players, have either ignored this protest or have been critical. I'm so pissed about this I can hardly type. Their words of anger about the Bush administration or the media will forever ring hollow because of their purposeful neglect. As I
said on Kos, the GOP can take a turd and turn it into a gourmet dinner. The liberals are handed a grassroots turnout of hundreds of thousands and do zero with it, except to maybe criticize it has having been organized "wrong". Yet again, analysis paralysis.

There were a thousand wonderful stories to be highlighted over this weekend....regular people who've been affected by the war...lost kids...vets who've come back. I have yet to see any real discussing of this or pushing the (pardon me) meme forward. The stupid pro-war people put less than 500 people in the nation's capitol vs.....well you know.

I'm now convinced. Dems deserve to lose because they have zero idea how to work as a unit to amplify each other's positives, to work as a team on message, to use the current media environment....they seem to only know how to
tear apart each other.

BTW, my blog has pictures from the last 3 days in DC, and I'll be putting up more of today's event in front of the WH.

Thanks to Bradblog for it's great coverage!

Zia Groosh, a young Iraqi soldier visiting the United States, said the war was necessary and that progress had been made in Iraq since the war began. "I've been there before the war and I've been there during the war, and it's getting better every day," she said. "People who are demonstrating and saying, 'Pull the troops out of Iraq' haven't been there, so they can't judge."

Groosh cited the new Iraqi government, police force and army as signs of U.S. success.

"For the first time, women make up 25% of the government, and that's a huge step," she said. (LATIMES)

MMIIXX,

"the victory has gone to the tERRORist already...where do get your news from,FOX?

Sorry bud you are wrong. Elections are scheduled for later this year. Where do you get your news from. Al Jezeera?

Katrina,

How can you have a rainbow river when the vast majority of liberals live in a city. Us conservatives rule the country. Maybe you have a rainbow river if you use your imagination and connect the dots.

I wonder what Mr. Chung and NukeChemist think about the lies generated in order to begin this anticonstitutional war.

WMD - My Aunt Fannie!!!

Question to pose to Mr. Chung and NukeChemist:
If Clinton was impeached and never killed anyone with his lie, how many people does Bush need to kill to receive Clinton's fate?

Diebold in Iraq ?
Iraq Winners Allied With Iran Are the Opposite of U.S. Vision

When the Bush administration decided to invade Iraq two years ago, it envisioned a quick handover to handpicked allies in a secular government that would be the antithesis of Iran's theocracy --- potentially even a foil to Tehran's regional ambitions.

But, in one of the greatest ironies of the U.S. intervention, Iraqis instead went to the polls and elected a government with a strong religious base --- and very close ties to the Islamic republic next door. It is the last thing the administration expected from its costly Iraq policy --- $300 billion and counting, U.S. and regional analysts say.

Miss Groosh you mean this Miss Groosh?

Ms. Groosh is our security liaison. Most recently, she helped to manage a strategic communications effort in Iraq to ensure successful implementation of public awareness and safety campaign. With her Bachelors in English Literature, we found a creative use for this intrepid young writer - project documentation. From reporter to historian, Ms. Groosh has proven a valuable asset in our efforts, including the much valued 'lessons learned' phase. She is fluent in English and Arabic, and speaks French and Malaysian and holds an BA from Baghdad University.

scratch the surface and look underneath !

Darling!

My heart soared while I was watching your video and heard the words, "Billionaires for Bush! Billionaires for Bush on the right!" (around 4:35).

Of course we were on the right, darling - we were supporting our dear Georgie, his cronies... er colleagues and our war profits. That is indeed the right thing to do!

Still, thank you ever so much for pointing out our presence to Jesse Jackson and Cindy Sheehan so they may see the error of their ways! For more complete coverage of the Billionaires at the march, one may consult our amusing and edifying website.

Toodles!

Nana #33,

Wish I could find the closeup of Cindy's Tattoo, but anyway it has his name and the years of his birth and death.

MrBlueSky,

Clinton was impeached for lying under oath (I didn't agree with the impeachment but I also wasn't happy with Clinton "lying" under oath).

Bush is doing what he thinks is right for the country. You can't impeach him for that. And regardless of what you say, you have zero proof that Bush knew before hand that Iraq had no WMD. The American people don't believe it either. Remember, there were plenty of Democrats that stated Saddam had WMD too. But of course, that's a major difference between liberals and republicans. If you're walking in Central Park at night and you here a girl scream she's getting raped, most liberals, not wanting to get involved for fear they might get hurt will think about calling the cops... maybe. Most republicans will rush right in.

The democrats that stated Saddam had WMD wanted more time to study the issues, think about going to the U.N. for the 57th time and to have more study groups. Maybe we should drop a couple more bombs on him from high in the sky to let him know we are serious!!!

Bush saw that Saddam had been playing peek a boo with U.N. inspectors for over 12 years and said enough with this Bullsh*t.

Cindy Shaheen for president. Turn out all repubs. and dems. who are for the war, even the ones you like. Oh, and since we learned cnn and msnbc don't cover real news, don't support them either. How long before cooper and cafferty look at their checks and go back to the way we were.

This AM I came online to check the news. Nothing grabbed me so I didn't even turn on the radio. I don't do MSM anymore. Got back online about an hour ago and learned about Cindy's arrest. Been looking around and found her note explaining what happened. I am so angry. The upside of course is the publicity, the downside is that we live in a police state. We have to get permits to do everything and anything today. Permits to speak, walk, drive, work and so on and so on and so on. The BIG LIE, America, home of the brave and LAND OF THE FREE. Ya, you betcha. I feel like I am sufficating with all of my FREEDOMS. I know, I know, this is all old news but gosh darn does it get old. Then the stupidity of the one or two posters on this blog. Ignorance is Bliss, isn't it.

NuclearChemist - re: Your "girl in Central Park" anecdote - your stereotypes are showing again dear. Your "speculation" is wrong on soooo many levels.

Here's a clue - when it's your OPINION, not backed up by fact, the proper thing to do is to add IMHO - In My Humble Opinion.

Thanks.

Brighteyes,

"Here's a clue - when it's your OPINION, not backed up by fact, the proper thing to do is to add IMHO - In My Humble Opinion."

Why start something new???? There are plenty opinions in here that have been repeated so many times, they have become fact. Just look at one of the reason that liberals claim Bush started the war. Cheney was in charge of Halliburton and Halliburton got a no-bid contract. Therefor Bush started the war for Halliburton!!! Same for Bush started the war for oil. Fact??? Only in liberals mind!! How about Bush stole the election. Any FACTS that fraud was committed and the election was stolen??? No, plenty of theories on how it could be done but no proof (no, exit polls of 2,020 people out of what, 2 million in Ohio not agreeing is not proof). But once again, every liberal in here takes it for fact that Diebold stole the election. How about Bush lying on WMD??? Lying is only when you know before hand that statements you are making are false. Clinton attacked a pharmacutical company because intelligance indicated that it was making a precursor to a WMD. It turns out that the intelligance was wrong. Did Clinton lie about WMD???? The WMD weren't there just like Bush's weren't. Why is Bush a liar when WMD aren't there but Clinton isn't????????

THE FACTS ON DOWNING STREET MEMO's vs.bushit

"Bush wanted to remove Saddam, through military action, justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD. But the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy." AfterDowningStreet.org is a coalition of veterans' groups, peace groups, and political activist groups, which launched on May 26, 2005, a campaign to urge the U.S. Congress to begin a formal investigation into whether President Bush has committed impeachable offenses in connection with the Iraq war.

The Downing Street "Memo" is actually meeting minutes transcribed during the British Prime Minister's meeting on July 23, 2002—eight months PRIOR to the invasion of Iraq in March 2003. The Sunday Times printed the text of this document on Sunday, May 1, 2005. Since then, several other leaked UK government documents have come to light. Together they paint a picture of a President intent on invasion, and a loyal ally troubled both by how it could be justified and by what it would bring.

The secret Downing Street memo

If your on a jury and the witness lies, are you guilty of a crime if you believe the lie because after all the witness was under oath?

merifour,

I just like coming in and see how silly you all act. You guys must have nightmares about Karl Rove. Amtrack schedules maintenance activities months in advance, posts this information on the website and does its work on the weekend so not to disrupt commuter flow during the workweek and all of a sudden, Karl Rove has his finger prints all over this!!!! Good thing it didn't rain Saturday or you all would have been saying how this is a typical Rove ploy too!!! I'm wondering how so many people can have such mass delusions at the same time. You guys really collect the nut cases. Look at how many of you believe that 911 was performed by the CIA!!!

Speaking of "Ignorance is Bliss, isn't it?", have all you "bring our troops home NOW" people given half a seconds thought what would happen to the people of Iraq if we did pull out right now??? Or, do you really not care about them???

Can I please get some of your thoughts on this (what would happen to the Iraqi people)???

#43

Most of the quotes you pull up regarding democrats saying Saddam had wmds were pre clinton's bombing raid and post Bush's entrance in the white house. There are only a select handful of people in congress that the Administration actually allowed to see the full unfiltered evidence as opposed to what they cherry picked. Saying no one knew Saddam had no wmds is a lie in itself. Apparently Colin Powell and Condeleeza Rice knew as they stated publicly in 2001 before the run-in to war.
http://www.thememoryhole.../war/powell-rice-wmd.wmv
As you later saw they changed their tune when it came about time to fight the war. So tell me were they lying then or were they lying in 2002?
Which time do you think they were lying?

Most of the democrats you speak of were led to believe the administration when it came to Saddam's capability. The administration showed limited proof to congress to try to convince them he had them and they trustfully accepted this as truth much like people believed Clinton when he said he didnt have sexual relations with that woman and much like people believed Nixon was innocent.

It turns out that the intelligance was wrong.

Its not now !

It turns out that the intelligence was wrong.

Who ya gunna believe somebody else or ya own lying eyes?

Bush planned Iraq 'regime change' before becoming President

arrogant ignorance

Bill Clinton: No Basis to Attack Iraq
"The administration ... decided to launch this invasion virtually alone and before the U.N. inspections were completed - with no real urgency, no evidence that there were any weapons of mass destruction there," he complained to ABC's "This Week."

"I did not favor what was done," Clinton said.

"I thought that diverted our attention from [Afghanistan] and al Qaida and undermined the support that we might have had," he said. "But what's done is done."

President Bush, after a National Security Council meeting, takes Don Rumsfeld aside, collars him physically, and takes him into a little cubbyhole room and closes the door and says, ‘What have you got in terms of plans for Iraq? What is the status of the war plan? I want you to get on it. I want you to keep it secret.’"

#54 MMIIXX Indeed! So sad.

bush must be drinking, snorting again

“Bush said he knows millions of Americans (actually, a majority) no longer agree with him. "Listen, there are differences of opinion about the way forward. I understand that. Some Americans want us to withdraw our troops so that we can escape the violence. I recognize their good intentions, but their position is wrong. Withdrawing our troops would make the world more dangerous and make America less safe. To leave Iraq now would be to repeat the costly mistakes of the past that led to the attacks of September the 11th, 2001."

oops

{ed note: MMIIXX, the link in your comment #58 is now workable! }

I have no doubt he's drinking again. The red face, disappearing for days (typical of a binge drinker). I feel sorry for his wife. IMHO she is an abused women, maybe not physically but I would say emotionally for sure. I note how she always walked behind him, never with him, no handholding, until recently. I thinks she likes him less than we do.

The marriage is a fake IMHO. Rove called her in to help W's image during Katrina and she called it Corinna? A slip of the tongue, 'up yours' George, or is she just plain coming undone in front of our eyes. Women/men in relationships with pychopaths rarely survive with egos intact. She should get out now to save herself. IMO, she can only be safe from this man if she leaves him while the world is watching. However, I am sure every move she makes is watched, she is a prisoner and does what she is told. (W. is fascinated by Rice and she almost called him her husband?......whats up with that..and he certainly doesn't mind kissing her in public.)

Now that would be a story...Bush and Rice...guess we could finally get him impeached. Come on Laura, leak it.

MMIIXX,

Hey dufuss, do yourself a favor and look up the word "fixed" in the dictionary. It also means to "gather facts around".

This is your smoking gun that Bush was already planning on invading Iraq???!!!! (Comment #53)

"The document, entitled Rebuilding America's Defences: Strategies, Forces And Resources For A New Century, was written in September 2000 by the neo-conservative think-tank Project for the New American Century (PNAC)."

News flash for those of you that are mentally challanged. Think tanks do that for a living. They do what ifs. So does the military. Right now, the military has plans for starting a war against China, Russia, Saudia Arabia, Syria, Iran, Mexico, Colombia and many other countries. We have those plans but that doesn't mean we are getting ready to invaded them. It's a just in case plan... for instance if Iran develops a nuke and blows up Israel, how we would attack Iran.

That is typical of you guys.

News report 1/13/06: President Bush's third grade Social Studies teacher went through her old papers and found a map of the middle east George Bush drew for class.
Liberals: See!!!! Now we have indisputable proof that Bush was planning on attacking Iraq even in the third grade!!!!!!!!

Have all you "bring our troops home NOW" people given half a seconds thought what would happen to the people of Iraq if we did pull out right now??? Or, do you really not care about them???

Why can't I get an answer on this question????

To Nuke and all the others that beleive everything Bush says:

Most of us took the time to look at the facts surrounding the claims that Saddam had WMD before the war started. It wasn't easy, because the MSM wasn't doing its job, but the facts were out there for anyone to collect.

Based upon all the facts that were publicly available before the war it was clear that Saddam did not have anyting that could threaten us. The only agrument for WMD that held any water back then was "the admistration must know someting we don't". Turns out they didn't.

Since I'm sure I'm not smarter than the CIA and the whole admistration I have to conclude they knew what I knew and spun the facts to support their ideological ideas. In other words, they lied. From my presective that's a "slam dunk".

It's now obvious that the thug Saddam was telling the truth all along and Bush was KNOWINGLY lying. What does that make Bush. IMHO it makes him a war crimianl that deserves to spend the rest of his life in jail. Saddam too.

The nightmare will be over for them, dumbshit...

We really DO care about them. Your fascist invasion killed 100.000+ and maimed countless.

DU ammo ensures the rest will have cancer and babies with birth defects for 2-5 generations.

Nuke

"have all you "bring our troops home NOW" people given half a seconds thought what would happen to the people of Iraq if we did pull out right now??? Or, do you really not care about them???"

They'd pull together and repair their beloved country. Just like all people do AFTER an occupation of their country is ended. A few examples:

America after we kicked the British out.
Iraq after they kicked the British out.
India after they kick the British out.
Algeria after they kick the French out
Vietnam after they kick the French then us out
Nicaragua after they kick us out

Answer this: Why do you believe that only we can solve their problems?

#62

We're not talking about some documents that were written in their youth. We're talking about a manifesto written for the sole purpose of world domination. What separates this "think tank" from the Unibomber? The manifesto was written by many members of the Bush Administration and shows their intent. They tried approaching Bill Clinton with it but he would not go along with it. What they called for is a new Pearl Harbor to make the American people want war in order to further aggression and takeover of the middle east. Now look at the last few years we've had a new pearl harbor, we've had public support for war, we've invaded two middle eastern countries. This seems much like their dreams are coming true.

"They'd pull together and repair their beloved country. Just like all people do AFTER an occupation of their country is ended."

See... that's why no matter what you'll do, no matter if you impeach bushit and jail dickie there'll still be something VERY WRONG with you people...

WTF "THEY'd pull together and REPAIR their beloved country"??

So, 'troops out and fuck the rest'... You slaughtered them, you trashed their country, YOU REPAIR IT!

You are running away from responsability, as always...

It was so with native americans, it was so with african slaves, it was so with Hiroshima/Nagasaki, Vietnam (add small countires ravaged by US) and it is so now with Iraq...

Nice going... You are just an inch better than nuclearidiot and his kind...

Uncle Bob

You're the one that keeps saying it is hopeless - that there is nothing we can do. If you think there is a better solution please tell.

I say get the military out so the people of Iraq can effect their own destiny and then help by COMPLETELY removing, discrediting, humiliating and jailing the ALL the people that started this idiotic war. That would demonstrate to the world our new intentions - a big step in the right direction.

Also, I didn't say it but should have - pay reparations and do whatever else we can do to help. I just don't know how that will work, since we can't even help ourselves without screwing it up like Katrina etc. Problems would be the reparation money causing corruption. But we have to try and if it doesn't work, immediately take account of our failure, adapt and try something else. Traditionally we have been almost completely incapable of this, but I think we can change. Hopefully before it is too late.

It's clear to me that the first thing we have to do is stop the occupation and punish the aggressors.

To nukulur kemist and Hose-A chung:

I just got back home from DC where I had been for the better part of a week.

I had the opportunity to talk with many people from all walks of life in DC as well as in the airport.

Guess what my experience was? (I'll tell you...)

Everyone I had a chance to speak with was on the same page as the people here at Bradblog. I talked to people who are in our military who were catching flights to either Afghanistan or Iraq. Guess what they said? (I'll tell you ...)

They are totally disenchanted with this administration and want a serious change. They agree that this war is only about money. They're disgusted with the fiscal irresponsibility of this administration. They're worried about the state of our own country. They're horrified at the amount of money oil companies are making: For instance - one soldier told me about Chevron's profits (I had only researched out Exxon-Mobil, so thanks to him I now have more info.)

Chevron Reports Second Quarter Net Income of $3.7 Billion

net income of $3.7 billion ($1.76 per share - diluted) for the second quarter 2005, compared with $4.1 billion ($1.94 per share - diluted) in the year-ago period. The amount in 2004 included a special-item gain of $0.6 billion ($0.28 per share) from asset sales and a benefit of $0.2 billion ($0.12 per share) from a tax-law change for certain international operations.

Yup, Nukie and Hose-A are definitely in the minority now. 100% of the people I talked to on my travels are against this administration. --- oh. Except for 1 young girl waitressing in a restaurant in DC. She was clueless about anything political. But that's it. Everybody else was ON THE SAME PAGE AS THE FOLKS WHO POST HERE ON BRADBLOG!!! Way cool.

I know there are still some who just don't get it (otherwise Nukie and Hose-A wouldn't be spouting their horse shit) but clearly --- they are in the minority and that minority is growing smaller and smaller day by day.

Nuclear Chemist - What do I think will happen if the US pulls out?

Don't you mean WHEN the US pulls out? Or are you admitting that the US has a plan for a permanent presence in Iraq?

The only difference between leaving NOW and leaving a YEAR from now will be the number of dead - the longer the US stays, the greater the number of people that will die.

Oh, and as an aside, the deficit will continue to balloon and our children and our children's children will suffer for it - but then, I know you're a neo-con and don't worry about things like that, fiddle-dee-dee.

In the end, it will end the same - and you can lay the blame at the door of the idiots who didn't listen to the military men (like Stormin Norman Schwartzkopf) who TOLD them it would be this way. If little George had read his daddy's thoughts on the matter, he'd have known EXACTLY what was going to happen - it was right out there in front of him! Maybe if

BTW, um..is this what they meant by a "slam dunk"? Are they throwing roses yet?

Now - YOU answer MY question - how will we know when the US has won? What is the goal now that the WMD excuse is flat on the floor? And please be specific, use CONCRETE words - I think we're ALL tired of smoke and mirrors.

I don't believe Bush lied about WMD.

Bill Clinton was impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice. As for deaths, let's not forget about the hundreds of innocent civilians killed when Clinton bombed Bosnia and Iraq. And that from a draft dodger as commander in chief who said in a letter he "hated the military."

Whereas George Bush risked his life for his country while serving in the Texas Air National Guard.

U.S. ACTIVE DUTY MILITARY DEATHS

Under Bill Clinton, first term: 4302
Under George W., first term: 5187

Hose - you gotta be joking!

Hose - Have you read anything at all about George's "military service?" Flying planes that weren't even going to be used? A reward put out to find ANYONE that remembered serving with him in Alabama. To this date no one has collected that reward.
Bartlett & Hughes actually seen "cleansing" Bush's records at a reserve office prior to the governor period. And I laughingly call it governor period, Texas had a surplus when he took over and a deficit when he left. Sound familiar?

Clinton had a Rhodes Scholarship in England. Didn't like the military? Well not many did, at least he was honest about it and didn't have Daddy pull strings to get him a cushy spot. Ask those who actually served like my husband what he thinks of Bush.

Nuculer (as Shrub would say) Chemist-

Thanks! The arrogant ignorance that you and your ilk flatulate here and elsewhere is all the motivation I need to continue to support the efforts that WILL eventually bring you and the criminals you support crashing down. Perhaps you will remember these words when you finally realize that has happened (if your rationalizing, lap dog idiocy allow you to ever perceive reality!).

IRT #69 by onyx:

it is hoples because:

1. there are NO viable, moral, ruling class alternative. Both your parties (REP+DEM) prooved over and over over the years that they are one and the same bullshit.

2. there's the economy problem which is very serious. Your corporations moved everything execpt the CEO out of the country. Wall-mart sells Nike tshirts made in China, MIT graduates that payed tenth of thousands of dollars on higher education are forced to teach math and physics in highschools because all research and development is either being moved abroad or low wage foreigners are emloyed in US and so on...

3. Your idiothic capitalist paradigm that everything is about "profit" pushed what was once a veritable powerhouse of the planet into a "2nd world country" style economy. You can barely manufacture anything. A few priviledge in charge of global corporations get big shares of sales of "american" products made in China, India and virtually everywhere on the planet BUT US territory. CEO-s get 80%, chineese/* workers get 20% and US economy gets... 2% of 80% from ever shrinking taxes... When the economy reaches a certain treshold it'll all backfire either into a civil war or into a world war...

- the people of Iraq lost control over their destiny a long time ago... (BTW, nuclearidiot above, british were gassing kurds to calm riots before your dreadded Saddam was even born)

-there's nothing to rebuild... the sheer amount of damage you've done to that country in the last 15+ years (even longer considering that you fueled the iran-iraq war by selling them both tones of weapons) guarantees Iraq will be a shithole for decades to come...

-about demonstrating to the world your new intentions: what about palestinians and israelis? Your country is "helping" the jewish state with a sum that equates around 25.000$/american tax peayer/year...

Most of those money go into weapons and crap. You are helping to "protect" the sole owner of (about 200) nuclear weapons in the region. You claim Iran is violating international laws with it's nuclear program... However, Iran actually signed in good faith the international nuclear treaties and allowed inspections to its facilities. Israelis, on the other hand, don't even publicly acknowledge that they have a nuclear weapons and NEVER allowed inspections.

I say get the military out so the people of Iraq can effect their own destiny and then help by COMPLETELY removing, discrediting, humiliating and jailing the ALL the people that started this idiotic war. That would demonstrate to the world our new intentions - a big step in the right direction.

Also, I didn't say it but should have - pay reparations and do whatever else we can do to help. I just don't know how that will work, since we can't even help ourselves without screwing it up like Katrina etc. Problems would be the reparation money causing corruption. But we have to try and if it doesn't work, immediately take account of our failure, adapt and try something else. Traditionally we have been almost completely incapable of this, but I think we can change. Hopefully before it is too late.

Imagine how it would've been if.. Russia, for example was pumping some 15$mil/DAY into Saddam's Iraq? Or into Iran?

The tensions between jews and arabs aren't going to vanish into thin air if US completly retreats from the middle east. Without US support Israel is nothing and if a war breaks out in the region those 200 nukes they have will shurely come in handy...

As I've said before, you set in motion a series of events...

Reparation money can cause corruption in corrupt governments and societies. Those 1$bill that vanished from the Iraqi's defense dept. were'n stolen by iraqis for the simple reason that iraqis don't control jack shit in Iraq. Paul Brem and his leeches took everyting.

Arabs have different values. A theocratic governement ruled by clerics might be able to spend reconstruction money far more wisley that a capitalist one...

Sorry for the insert of onyx's text above...

from [I say get the military...] to [...Hopefully before it is too late.] that's onyx's piece, not mine...

I hit a ctrl-v by accident right before submitting

Uncle Bob - I'm sad to say I agree with every point you made, but I'm not going to sit around waiting for it to happen.

Jose, Is Zia like the last Iraqi expert that the whitehouse tried to pass off on us. Crying "you must stay in Iraq, I was so afraid of the bombs when Saddam was there, blah blah blah" Her husband turned out to be VOC. Voice of Cairo is a whitehouse propaganda station so we outed this woman as a Rovian plant. What about Zia? hmmmmmm?

by the way Zaqari (sp) either had six legs or is dead. He has lost his leg in battles at least 3 times yet he continues to escape. hahahaha, the guy has most likely been dead for quite a while but how could we keep fighting without him eh?

Brighteyes,

I answered your question under the thread it was asked under.

"Nuclear Chemist - What do I think will happen if the US pulls out? Don't you mean WHEN the US pulls out? Or are you admitting that the US has a plan for a permanent presence in Iraq?"

Let's go back to my original question: ""have all you "bring our troops home NOW" people given half a seconds thought what would happen to the people of Iraq if we did pull out right now???

What I was asking about is what would happen if you got your way and pulled out troops today. I see people are really logically challenged in here to think that they will all of a sudden get along. The Shia's are going to say "Oh, by all means take control back of the government. We'll give it back to you without a fight."

Onyx,

Would you care to have some facts along with your stupid statement?

"They'd pull together and repair their beloved country. Just like all people do AFTER an occupation of their country is ended. A few examples:"

America after we kicked the British out.

Iraq after they kicked the British out.
The British left a puppet government in place. The Hashemite monarchy. http://www.britishempire.co.uk/maproom/iraq.htm

India after they kick the British out.
The true figure will never be determined, but it is estimated that between 200-thousand to two million people were killed, most of them in riots between the fleeing communities (Hindus and Sikhs pitted against Muslims), and the rest from the severity of the journey itself.
http://www.cnn.com/WORLD...ndia97/india/panorama/#1

Algeria after they kick the French out
Additional pro-French Muslims (so-called harkis) were killed when the FLN settled accounts after independence. http://en.wikipedia.org/...rian_War_of_Independence

Vietnam after they kick the French then us out
There were almost twice as many casualties in Southeast Asia (primarily Cambodia) the first two years after the fall of Saigon in 1975 then there were during the ten years the U.S. was involved in Vietnam. [1996 Information Please Almanac]

Nicaragua after they kick us out

Well, so much for peaceful solutions huh?

Nuke - are you trying to say the world would be a better place if British and French Colonialism hadn't been defeated? Or that American Colonialism will bring peace to the world? The disasters that Colonialism brought to the world are still ringing though the history. We and they are still paying the price.

I think the world would be a better place if those who have the greatest interest in the welfare of the people form a government of the people, by the people and for the people. Sometimes that is messy. Sometimes the outcome is not what we would wish. There isn't much we can do as outsiders to make it easier and a lot we can to screw it up.

Our interests, no matter how good our intentions may or may not be, are not the welfare of the Iraqi people. If you think they are you are clearly delusional.

What price will the world have to pay for our adventures? According Uncle Bob it's all life on earth - he might be right.

Onyx,

I never said early European colonialism was good. I do noticed how you left out most Afican countries that even today have civil wars and rampant killings.

As far as "American Colonialism" Yes, I do think it brought peace to the world. Do you think West Berlin would have survived without us being there? How about during the "cold war"? How many other countries would have the Soviet Union gobbled up if we weren't there. Do you think Tiawan would be free today if we weren't there to protect it against China? Do you think South Korea would remain democratic if we hadn't protected it against the North Koreans?

I'm sorry but I think your knowledge of history is fairly lacking.

My point is, you guys have no exit strategy (sound familiar?). Just bringing the troops home WILL result in many more deaths for the innocent Iraqi civilians that you guys say you care so much about.

Why do you fear a democratic Iraq???

I participted in the anti-war march in DC this past weekend. It was a life-changing experience for me. Yesterday, I was part of a delegation from California that lobbied at the senate offices of Boxer and Feinstein. The meeting with Boxer was exceptional; the meeting with Feinstein was very frustrating and disappointing. The aides let us know that they heard us loud and clear - that we were only second in numbers to the million man march. But Feinstein isn't budging - isn't willing to commit to withholding war funds until we have an exit strategy in place. She is "waiting" to see what happens. The soldiers (and Phil Donahue) who were part of our delegation told the aides (Feinstein was in the office but would not attend the meeting in the conference room) that those protesting the war were now in the majority and that it was in Feinstein's interests to stop playing it safe politically and represent her constituency. The soldiers said that there is already civil war in Iraq occurring - that leaving Iraq is what the Iraqi people and the 84 members of the provisional authority have demanded. We need to compensate the Iraqi people for what we have done, allow them to rebult and reconstruct their country as THEY wish, terminate US companies from being part of the reconstruction process and a variety of other issues. The three soldiers that spoke brought every one to tears.

The point is, bombard your congressional representatives with letters, emails, phone calls and get involved with the Progessive Democrats of America or Peace and Junstice. We are the only ones that will be able to bring our soldiers home.

Nuclear chemist...

I think you need to realize that there will never be an American-type democracy in Iraq. Civil war is occuring in Iraq as we post. I listened to the testimony of soldiers who had just returned from Iraq - soldiers who spoke on camera, in congressional offices, were interviewed by the LA Times.

Excuse me, but WE have no exit strategy? Senate Resolution 171 is asking the Bush administration to provide a timeline for withdrawal. Iraq would not currently even have a provisional government or constitution in place had we not set deadlines for them!! Progressive democrats are demanding 1) that our troops be brought home now; 2) that reconstruction funds that have already be given out be accounted for and those who have pilfered from them be prosecuted; 3) that Halliburton and other US companies not be permitted to be part of the reconstruction process - that the Iraqi people be allowed to rebuild their own country - to put the Iraqi people back to work; 4) that Iraqi's be given their country back to chose whatever type of government they choose - that is their choice; not ours. The US is part of the problem, not the solution. By removing our troops, compensating the Iraqi's financially for the destruction we have caused will go far to correct the immoral, enormous mistake we have wrought against Iraq and the world. The next step is to hold this administration accountable for war crimes.

I love America. As a mother of a soldier who has served 2 times in Iraq, as a former wife of any army husband, and daughter of two air force parents, I'm as patriotic as they come. I love my country. But what this administration has done to our country, what havoc they have brought to Iraq, what disgrace and shame they have brought to our nation can only be rectified by admitting the injustice this administration has caused, by making them accountable and by taking financial responsibility for the true reconstruction of Iraq.

You can wave your American flag, stick as many stupid yellow ribbon "I support the troop" stickers on your SUV as you like - but that doesn't make you a patriot. The truth makes you a patriot. Taking responsibility makes you a patriot.

God Bless America and all people of all countries.

ladyfrancesca - thank you! You're a true patriot.

Nuclear - My answer was logical, what part are you having trouble with?

There is a civil war going on in Iraq. Right now. As we speak.

If the US leaves now, there will still be a civil war going on in Iraq.

If the US leaves in a year, there will be many more dead soldiers and dead civilians, our country will be a few billion more in the hole when the money is sorely needed here at home - and there will be a civil war going on in Iraq.

In the end, the end is the same.

BTW, I can't seem to find your answer on a previous thread, would you point it out to me please?

linda6or7,
Thanks for acknowledging Zia's existence.

texaslady,
Have you ever heard of man who served with Bush named COL. WILLIAM CAMPENNI (he also explains Alabama):

'Bush and I were lieutenants'

"The Bush critics do not comprehend the dangers of fighter aviation at any time or place, in Vietnam or at home, when they say other such pilots were risking their lives or even dying while Lt. Bush was in Texas. Our Texas ANG unit lost several planes right there in Houston during Lt. Bush's tenure, with fatalities. Just strapping on one of those obsolescing F-102s was risking one's life."

The Washington Times
www.washingtontimes.com
Letters to the Editor
Published February 11, 2004

onyx,
Your response was priceless--like someone just splashed with a dose of reality.

#86

Really Jose? That didn't look like an explanation of the Alabama guard unit it looks more like an explanation of the Texas guard. What Texaslady mentioned was about no one knowing George served in the Alabama guard from his unit. Please do post the quotes from Colonel Campenni on that.

IRT #81 by nuclearidiot:

"I'm sorry but I think your knowledge of history is fairly lacking."

Yes, and your history knowledge is fairly impressive, consideringthat you learned it all from Hollywood.

"West Berlin"? - first of all, SOVIETS rescued Europe from Nazis. It was on the eastern front Hitler lost the bulk of his armies. Soviets drove to Berlin and destroyed what was left. They lost millions of soldiers... You just waited for them to slaugher each other and drove in, took the jet engine and the nuckear program along with most german scientist...

Oh ,and you conducted the worst terrrorist attacks in human history at hiroshima and nagasaki. With all your bullshit movies and games where you depict the evil soviets launching nukes, you were the first to make them and the ONLY ONES to use them. And not agaist a Japaneese carrier formation in the pacific, not againt a large japaneese army marching though China, not even against a fucking shipyard... No, you nuked two cities slaughtering instantly 500k+ civilians and condemning shit knows how many to radiation related diseases.

The propaganda of your fascist regime denied any kind of "radiation poisoning" and was brainwashing all of you that nuclear bombs are safe and all the reported horrors were just made up by japaneese...

What a bullshit...

Next, during the Cuban missile crisis you all point fingers at the "evil soviets" for sneaking nukes into Cuba, not mentioning that this move was a response to the ICBM deployed by United Fascist State of America in it's Turkey bases targeting Moscow and a dozen other cities. You can point your nukes at others and bully them. You are allowed... You are the "blessed people"....

Who dragged the entire indo-china into a massive war? Who made fortunes by selling weapons to them so they can defend against the "red tide"?

Commnism was just a boogie-man used by your governments to keep you in fear. Now that it's gone then needed a new boogie-man. First it was the "war on drugs" that everybody seems to forgot about it. Now it's the "war on terror"... How handy... After all this terrorists buisness is over I wonder who you'll pick on? Ecologists? Vegetarians?

Most of the iraqis that died, died because US indiscriminate use of illegal weapons trashing almost every Geneva convention. Massiv bombardaments in urban areas, cluster bombs, cluster mines, phosporous munitions, DU munitions and so on.

Nuclearidiot, you might not realised but you are in a minority. 110 million americans + some jews support the war. The rest of the fucking planet doesn't.
110 millions

What are you going to do? Invade us all? Nuke us all?

FUBAR Country. FUBAR People. Have a civil war already so the rest of the planet can sleep at night.

#72

Somehow I think your numbers are inaccurate. You're probably adding all accidents, suicides, illnesses to your count. Now Jose can you break down how many deaths actually occured because of hostile forces?

Jose - with Bush's entry score into the National Guard I can imagine it was dangerous- for the other pilots.

I believe he scored about 2 points above disqualification. And I am speaking of the Alabama time frame. Or was it he showed up for a dental appt but definitely not for hard duty.

Again, lets see some data from the Alabama time.

ladyfrancesca welcome to Bradblog ,where reality rules.

AMEN ladyfrancesca !

Hose-A #86

Cheez --- here he goes pasting from that Commie, Moonie rag, the Washington Times. Good going!

Echo TexasLady #92!! Thank you ladyfrancesca!

Nuclear, You want to know what will happen to the people of Iraq if we leave? I've spoken with Iraqi people. They tell me "look, right now we are breaking bread together, Sunni and Shi'tes (sp) We can get along together. The Americans are causing the insurgency. If they leave, the Iraqi people will find a way. They cannot find a way as long as they feel they are being occupied. The occupation fuels the terror. We cannot go to the market for tea with our friends now without the fear of explosions and death. We will find a way. Just as we sit to this meal together, we can and will work out our problems together."

You see, the insurgents are now mostly just the Iraqi people fighting for their country as you would fight for yours were it invaded. Things can't get too much worse than what we have created. If we leave, the rest of the world will pitch in again to bring stability to the region. We can even use air support if needed. We must fund the Iraqi people to rebuild their own country as best they can. What we can't do is force freedom down their throats. The freedom we have shown them is terrifying (sp) We can't burn their bras for them. They must decide that it is what they want and do it for themselves. It usually comes about slowly, not because of a take over. They must do it.

What will happen to the Iraqi people if we stay? That is the question you should be asking. They haven't had full electric and water since we showed up. I'm sure everyone in Iraq has had a personal loss of a friend or family member. The air if full of depleted Uranium that will kill many and cause birth defects and cancers, and the Americans are building permanent bases. If we stay, the country will be destroyed. Perhaps our country will be too. It's obvious that we have bankrupted America and we needed the money, the guard, the equipment here at home.

PURPLE FINGERS DON'T PAY FOR PURPLE HEARTS

Neo said:

#72

Somehow I think your numbers are inaccurate. You're probably adding all accidents, suicides, illnesses to your count. Now Jose can you break down how many deaths actually occured because of hostile forces?
_____________________

You are correct, Neo, those totals include accidents, and suicides, etc. Yet when the MSM (and this blog) report the number of US military deaths in Iraq, do they separate out the accidental deaths? No. Over 400+ of the 1900+ died from accidents.

Well, you might respond by saying, Dead is dead, what does it matter how they died? Fine, let me give you another statistic. In Jimmy Carter's last year in office, in 1980, the number U.S. Active Military Deaths was 2,392, according to the Department of Defense. And we weren't even at war.

#95
Jose said:

You are correct, Neo, those totals include accidents, and suicides, etc. Yet when the MSM (and this blog) report the number of US military deaths in Iraq, do they separate out the accidental deaths? No. Over 400+ of the 1900+ died from accidents.

Well, you might respond by saying, Dead is dead, what does it matter how they died? Fine, let me give you another statistic. In Jimmy Carter's last year in office, in 1980, the number U.S. Active Military Deaths was 2,392, according to the Department of Defense. And we weren't even at war.
-------------------------------------------------------
Now Jose you weren't actually making a point but trying to say just as many soldiers died under clinton than under George W. Bush. This is untrue.

Using your logic I can say that Ronald Reagan was responsible for 17,201 active military deaths during his presidency.

Your comparison to Clinton is so far off base as George W. has almost eclipsed the active military deaths under Clinton's 8 years in only 5 years. Remember though its all hard work.

You just don't get it, do you?

You will always have zero power - unless you remove your current administration and purge the corrupt senate and congress, start from scratch, and that won't happen without bloodshed because your government will have you shot if you try anything like it.

No peaceful marching on the streets of American cities (looked to me like 150000 people were on a picnic... the sixties are long gone, haven't you noticed?) will change the way the system works, that's how it is nowadays, folks. You have no way of changing things now that you've let your election system get corrupt, too.

I know Cindy Sheehan means well and she has every right to be angry because she lost her son for no reason in an illegal war, but singing songs is not the way to change USA back to democracy. George W. Bush and his administration couldn't care less.

read through it all.
you can cross section this event by checking a carter book.(initial meeting with bush.)
when i was 14 i was at the pruets farmhouse,they owned a bank in kansas pruet,pruet & pruet(yeah part of the flying faggot monekys.)anyway sorry to say this next part but when i was a child i survived a human sacrifice with my cousin,incredibly horrific blocked it out.however anything that was satanic or dark or anything yellow or egyptian i knew i was always in the presence of a flying faggot monkey,you know the lousy lays,the ones that have no finesse so they do their manic actions on children.i'm 40 now so you can do the math with bush's age.he was probably mid 30's.he came into the room & says you're dead,i replied what a common little man you are.(he had to have councelling where they assured him i meant he was the average man,the working man,a man to be proud of.NO YER IDIOT I MEANT CHEAP,TINY SPECIMEN,SON OF FAG.)his jaw dropped & he stuttered my daddy is head of.i interupted aren't you too old to call him daddy?he then went bush,you know attack the innocent.i was only 14 & a girl.i've got a tan & i've died my hair blonde for the esta god.(that's the satanic mob,they hide behind a faggot egyptian story.)i was supposed to quiver but i yawned.(michael moores annoyance i can confirm.)he just sucked all dignity intelligence & any form of human decency out of the room.even his tone was boring.he then boasted how he was on coke.got it from a younger flying faggot monkey.he then regained his brain cell.he tried another scare."my dadd",i raised my eyebrow,i was not wasting another tone on him."& his two friends he named them,pray to a demon i've seen them & it."still no response.by this time i'm pleading with myself for multiple personality at the same time i urgently sent signals to brainbook,montauk get me out now.ANYTHING TO REMOVE MYSELF FROM THE SITUATION.but no.i was trapped.DON'T TELL ME I HAVEN'T GONE THROUGH THE WORST ABUSE EVER.he continued.(sorry.)
i'm going to be president of the new world order.(groan,it's gonna be more faggot speak.)i know the phrophecy (the satanic one.)he thinks i won't do it but i will.he crapped on.he mentioned concubus the dark demons that all satanics pray to.i glazed.i had to."silence you bore me" i'd had enough.he couldn't believe that i didn't listen to the punchline.would the world survive,would he push the button.he then went very very nasty.he then said i know the sentence that will make you forget & he smirked & said you'll be safe now.what did i just say.all i remember thinking is no you don't have to say it,you are forgettable.bitch wife came in & said i killed somebody,(she did in a car.)what did he say,i shook my head,she smirked & said you'll be safe now.they were both sent to bed at 3 o'clock that afternoon.another man arrived same room,he apologised for bush & his wife (will somebody change her medictaion the very least straighten her head i get vertigo every time she is on the telly.)he told me he was a peanut farmer.he was very kind.
in my late 20's bush & the faggots had secret meetings in australia,i was plagued by phonecalls.bush said you're gouing to be my brain book.i just snapped idiot & put the phone down.bush elder crapped on about demonic crap,i would just call him a fag & put the phone down.(have you seen the size of his wife,she hasn't been touched in a very long long time.)when september 11 happened i got a phonecall saying,'this is your fault,you could stop this.'i just put the phone down.my phone was always bugged,so agencys were fully aware,i might not have known,but they were aware.FULLY.
there is footage with bush with the press & they mentioned the dead girl,he said,"i tried to tell her". nobody called him up on it.nobody said well she's breathing,i think she might be alive,i don't know,mr president head of minions,do you think,at all.clearly not.
my grandfather knew that preston bush & all the others,the only thing he would say about them was that preston bush's father should have withdrawn.at that time they were just scum characters that he had met.words of wisdom for every bush generation.
when bin laden heard about his beautiful women being hypnotised he took them from their jobs,the world blasted him,he did it to protect them.bush said the sentence to make me forget.how much damage that we don't know about that he has revelled in?
what nobody ever mentions is concubus & partner need to collect souls,& war is where they collect.they hang round the battelfield.literally,appearing manipulating promising people their lives etc.& collecting.every war point setter from jungle to i.r.a. to now is just so bush & the others can ward off just for the while thier own collection.
it is satanic to kill,the death sentence for any man whatever he has done is not of god,remember when bush sanctioned the death of a prisoner & nobody said a thing.
saddam was after tunnels that have montauk abilities,funny that bush went there first.