"does not count votes correctly." You would have to define "correctly" correctly ,who did "they" want to win ? Not Gore, not Kerry, therefore you would have to define "correctly" correctly.

Hell yeah I care!

I care so much that I blogged about it myself two days ago and wrote a letter to the editor of my local newspaper. (Because guess whose state ALSO uses these machines!)

But the smoking gun that I am waiting to have revealed to the general population is that these machines have been used by the Republicans to steal elections. I cannot yet prove that but I have absolutely NO doubt that it is true.

We should just vote on their ATMs. They seem to be able to count accurately to the penny. It seems like they have been able to count large numbers, integrate different systems all over the world, create verifiable paper trails,and keep all of our major financial institutions happy. It's almost like they don't wanna'. Hmmmmmm????????

I care and I've been pissed since 2000! It's like watching a bad magician. I saw that!! Maybe I'm lost in left wing world, but has this ever effected a race where the Republican lost? They will try to win this election by a thousand cuts. This is just one of them. Caging, voter ID, mis appropriation of resources on election day, lying 501C-3s, not counting provisional ballots etc.....

Someone should call the Attorney General! No wait...

I can't think about this. I have to go to work so that I can afford Gas for my car.

...Adding my flabber-gastation, for what it's worth. Following Ellen's amazing work with utter disbelief. As a truly perfect button to this stunner, Kathy Dent--nefarious Sarasota Supervisor of Elections--was interviewed this week by Fox 13 News about the potential problems that we may experience with our new voting machines.

Dent's final comment was: "It's Sarasota.. what can I say?"
WHA?...
So, "we're Sarasota, we're bound to fuck up?"

The interview, while not airing on TV, has painted DENT in the most unflattering light. While that is not hard to do, I wonder why FOX has included some of the most bizarro/ amusing footage of DENT from our RECOUNT, where she is seen in full melt-down, screaming at Susan Pynchon of the Florida Fair Elections Coalition/ Volusia Co. candidate for S.O.E...

Click here for Video:
http://www.myfoxtampabay...rsion=1&locale=EN-US

...Dent's meltdown has nothing to do with this particular interview, so I don't quite get how this furthers FOX's ever present, thinly veiled agenda. Maybe they're setting m'lady up for a fall?

FLORIDIOT also mentioned in a previous thread that VERN BUCHANAN, our corrupt CAR SALESMAN/ CONGRESSMEAN ELECT from FL-13, is facing seven court cases re: AUTO FRAUD and illegal campaign contributions. Full story:
http://newsproject.org/node/111

Surely he would never throw an election...
Truly cracked.

Wow.

It sure is hard to count votes accurately
on these systems, ain't it?
Counting votes is really really hard.

O mean, heck that's ADDITION!

It's a good thing Diebold machines and technology isn't used to keep track of millions of bank money depo$it$ and with drawals every day, all over the country.
That would be even MORE complicated
than counting votes.

Good thing, huh?

..........................
....

Oh.

Never mind.

Wilbur ~ If diebold / premier screwed up even the slightest bit in it's banking machines there would be hell to pay . . . "but since it's only votes WTF..." Says the talking snake . . .

As as emergency measure, can we demand the states use hand counted paper ballots for the Federal offices only?

My grandson-in-law, the brilliant programmer, said, "The reason these companies don't want to release their source codes is that they are such clumsy kludges, taking millions of lines of programming for a job that can be done with hundreds, that any sort of mischief can be hidden in the misch-masch nearly undetectably!" If he is right, the whole thing is not unreliability, it's FRAUD! If the machines are intended to give "Incorrect" answers (Always skewed in ONE direction, even the suspicion should legislate against using them AT ALL! And someone should go to jail for a long time.

Thanks for continuing to call this criminal corporation Diebold! Calling them by their new witness protection name would allow them to disappear and duck accountability.

I guess we can all see why they want to keep the code secret now. It's obvious any competing vote tabulation corporation would want to steal computer code for their machines that can't count. Up is down.

By the way, did we ever get to know what Kenneth Blackwell said when the C-Span feed went down during his testimony?

We all knew the truth, we just couldn't prove it. This took place under the Clinton's watch and I'll be one of the first to say that is why Bill and Hillary were able to pull off their NH. hat trick. Remember, Sen. Obama won in almost every hand-counted area and lost in almost every machine-counted one. Her tears were just a head fake, to throw us off from the real deal. Machine stolen votes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A blind person could see the fraud in this system. The average American voter is too trusting in this broken system. Just put the American flag in front of the polling place and we will believe anything. Now what will we do to correct it?

I'm not voting again until these machines are destroyed and those responsible are prosecuted.

You can’t tell the co-conspirators without a scorecard. Connect the dots around these names, and you’ll know who planned it, had foreknowledge of it, who had operational control, whose job it was to sell the public on an alternate reality, where your money and your freedom went, and why:

A.B. “Buzzy” Krongard; Abdullah Noman; Abdussattar Shaikh; Abraham Lowenthal; Alan Makovsky; Alex Diamandis; Alvin K. Hellerstein; Andrew Card; Andrew Colsky; Ari Fleischer; Ariel Sharon; Benjamin Chertoff; Bernard Kerik; Binyamin Netantahu; Bob Graham; Bush cousin; Charles Thornton; Colin Powell; Dale Watson; Daniel Kurtzer; Daniel Lewin; Daniel Pipes; Dave Frasca; David Frum; David Makovsky; David Rockefeller; David Wurmser; Dick Cheney; Dominic Suter; Donald Rumsfeld; Douglas Feith; Dov Zakheim; Dror Levy; Edward Luttwak; Ehud “Udi” Mendelson; Ehud Olmert; Eliezer Tabibl; Eliot Cohen; Eliot Spitzer; Elliott Abrams; Elliott Broidy; Eric Edelman; Eric Findley; Ezra Harel; Frank Carlucci; Frank Lowy; Gene Corley; Geoffrey Lambert; George H.W. Bush; George Tenet; George W. Bush; Hanane Sarfati/Hanan Serfaty; Harold Nelson; Henry Kissinger; Henry Shelton; Howard “Tzvi” Friedman; Howard Kohr; Jack Abramoff; Jacob “Kobi” Alexander; James Baker; James Schlesinger; James Woolsey; Jeb Bush; Jerome Hauer; John Ashcroft; John Bolton; John Brinkerhoff; John Deutch; John Gross; John Howard; John Lehman; Jules Kroll; Ken Melman; Kenneth Adelman; Kenneth R. Feinberg; Kevin Delaney; Larry Arnold; Larry Franklin; Larry Silverstein; Leslie Gelb; Lewis “Scooter” Libby; Lewis E. Lehrman; Lewis Eisenberg; Loring Knoblauch; Mahmoud Ahmad; Marc Grossman; Marc Rich; Marion “Spike” Bowman; Mark Loizeaux; Marvin Bush; Maurice Greenberg; Maurice Sarfati/Moshe Tzorfati; Meir Levy; Mel Sembler; Mete Sozen; Michael Cherkasky; Michael Chertoff; Michael Mukasey; Michael S. Goff; Mickey Kantor; Montague Winfield; Monte Belger; Morris Amitay; Newt Gingrich; Nicholas Rockefeller; Oded Ellner; Omer Marmari; Paul Bremer; Paul Kurzberg; Paul Mlakar; Peter Schoomaker; Philip Zelikow; Phillip Zack; Porter Goss; Ralph Eberhardt; Ramon Gilsanz; Randy Scheunemann; Richard Armitage; Richard Fishman; Richard Haass; Richard Holbrooke; Richard Meyers; Richard Miles; Richard Perle; Richard Tomasetti; Robert McFarlane; Robert Mueller; Robert Zoellick; Ronald Hamburger; Ronald Lauder; Rudie Dekkers; Rudy Guiliani; Rupert Murdoch; Sam Miller; Sam Zell; Samual Anidjar (Sayat on plane aka Mossad Agent); Shabtai Shavit; Shankar Nair; Shaul Levy; Silvio Berlusconi; Sivan Kurzberg; Stephen Lander; Steve Goldsmith; Ted Olson; Theresa McAllister; Thomas Dine; Thomas Pickard; Thomas White; Tommy Franks; Tommy Thompson; Tony Blair; Tony Gentry; Victor Ganzi; Wallace Hilliard; Warren Buffett; William Baker; William Kristol; Wirt Walker; Yaron Shmuel; Yisrael Ziv; Yosef “Yossi” Kuperwasser

It’s time to name names.

Beware the Swiftboating of Exit Polls.

It's next on the PNAC "to-do" list.

Agent Rove will take the lead.

Brad sez "Does anybody care?"

Watch this:

"The Revolution will not be Televised, Fuck Fox News"

Hmmm... Just thinkin... tee shirts

BRAD TOLD YOU SO !!!
Voting Machines
Steal Elections . . .

No electronic vote tabulation device can be validated. A printer, well that's different. You can see the paper output. You can drop that output into a pile of printed paper ballots and ensure public oversight. While, back at the electronic signal level no public oversight will EVER BE POSSIBLE.

Nope, Phil. Remember, most folks (80% according to studies) don't check their computer printed vote. Of those who do check them (as Rice University's study showed last summer), two-thirds don't notice vote flips on them.

Hand-marked paper ballots only, please.

HERE'S THE REPUG GAME PLAN. Get all the voting machine companies to admit they drop votes but it is too late to make the changes for the November election. Then, if the Repugs lose big, as they should, they can scream bloody murder that the election cannot be verified and thus must be rejected. Perhaps even to the extent that the current administration will have to stay in power until a new "improved, trustworthy" system can be devised. And likely that will take years.

Fear not Americans, a "REAL" election will be held at some point before 2020 - the Repugs will tell us when it is safe to go back into the voting booth again. Thank GOD they have our backs and are protecting us from those evil voting machine companies!!

HaY ... plunger ,you forgot Tom Feeney ...whats with that?

So what is the answer for the disabled?

(note that the following sentences/paragraphs are now out of logical sequence, because I had thoughts as I was replying and added and now can't get the whole thing to flow again. It's called rough draft brainstorming. And no I don't have time to fix it.)

I thought minimizing electronic devices to those that only print a paper ballot, and then only to be used "by the disabled" would be the route to go.

But if your saying no electronics at all (which I don't disagree with in theory) how are the disabled to mark a ballot without causing the entire election to be compromised with unvalidatable electronic signals? And further, how do we stop the mentality of, "if it's good enough for the disabled, it's good enough for everybody." Which is basically where we are at now.

I remind everyone that I have suggested using some kind of glorified printer for the disabled for at least a year or so here. I haven't heard a peep about that until just now.

What's changed? Why wouldn't that be the best option to keep questionable votes to a minimum by only allowing access to such devices by those who truly need them.

Even a paper ballot is printed by some type of electronics. If your able bodied, you fill out a paper ballot, if your not, you print your ballot on the spot.

What other way can it be done?

Human assisted? e.g. a human physically assists them to mark a ballot? That's gives up transparency, but in my opinion, it's not my fault that the disabled were dealt the hand they were in life. Where's the middle ground?

Or is it that because of the physical properties of electronics, there never can be any use for them?

How did this work before electronic voting machines existed? Just asking.

As far as I am concerned, I would like the whole thing on paper, outdoors, in daylight, with no walls to hide boxes and stuff, and no electronic devices at all.

That being said, if I later in life become disabled, I too would have to give up transparency for the ability to vote. To be honest I'd rather have it that way, than to be forced to use a printer.

Currently there are less disabled people than there are able bodied. That being the case, in my opinion accessibility is not an excuse for compromising an election by the introduction of electronics.

So how many percent of people are disabled? It's obviously growing with this damn war.

Here's another thought. (to be fair, it's just an idea do not get mad at me for thinking out loud) If there's no way for the disabled to mark a ballot, then perhaps they shouldn't vote at all. The reasoning being, if the only way to allow them to vote is to introduce electronic signals which NO HUMAN can see.

There's got to be some kind of logic. Either we divide people up by groups, e.g. disabled, not disabled, or something, I don't see how these two groups can't be separated as an issue. One man has a problem, one does not.

Perhaps if your disabled you must vote at a specific location early. Or perhaps the SOS itself makes a house visit. I don't know what the answer is, I don't know everything, but I know that electronics in elections suck any way you slice it; questions like these lead to other questions like, how does someone without a doctor prove they are disabled, and therefore need some kind (seems nobody knows what kind) of assistance? That heads down a really nasty road.

This shouldn't be that hard to figure out if we had some real leadership. But to allow this crap to go on since the failure of the first election that used electronics is purely criminal.

Bottom line, if you want me to agree no electronics at all whatsoever. (Which I would be more than happy to agree to) What is to be done with the disabled? And what is to be done to the non disabled to stop them from creating a DoS voting event, while seeking fake help and running out of actual folks that can help?

God this is worded like crap.

And I have a slight deja-vu on some of these questions/ideas, but have they really been completely thought out?

If I don't have a clear understanding of where we SHOULD be headed, then I can no longer help with election integrity. If the printer idea is a half-ass half-measure that introduces so much crap problems into the loop, then what will be the non electronic replacement. That NEEDS to be known.

Cause it would be simple for me to start saying no electronics, whatsoever. I get it, I know the signals prevent oversight.

(sarcasm) If we know the vote is flipped, why not just have it where the candidate that wins, is forced to be the looser? --This stuff is so fucked up.

I know your busy with the thing in Colorado so I won't be upset, if you don't respond.

Furthermore, why the fuck were optical scan machines created in the first place? They have nothing to do with accessibility for the disabled.

Another thought, if everybody signs on, or the majority signed on to the Creekside Declaration.

Isn't it way past the time to have a second meeting and hash out what a non electronic, public oversight election blueprint should actually be.

That way we all can have clarity and definition when these fucking Senators keep introducing this half ass legislation to half ass fix the problem that has gone on for far to many years.

It's like I hear about serious discussion about voting, then the election goes away then nothing fucking happens. Everyone goes back into there little caves and under their little rocks. Then suddenly there's another fucking emergency, and over-reaction, and under-studied crap take hold again.

Wash, Rinse, Repeat.

One more thought,

In California, we get mailed to us, something called a "Sample Ballot"

What if that was a REAL BALLOT?

e.g. on election day you bring it in.

Here in Califonia, they do mail you a real ballot. All you need is to sign up for absentee voting.

But now they count these with Diebold optical scaM tabulators.

Wait, diebold voting machines have issues?! Hold on a second while I'm shocked and amazed. I'm surprised they admitted it though. I can't believe these machines haven't been permanently banned across the entire country.