I'll give Markos Moulitsas and The DailyKos a pass on this one. I have been critical of his attempts to get into the MSM and never was a member there because the site was just a little too big for me, kind of like the Catholic church. But I read one of the "striker's",Taylor Marsh's, blog now and then and have to say that it's the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. I have never read a more vitriolic and one-sided pro-Clinton blog, and I have tried to comment there and have been shut out. I do not even know if Ms. Marsh is paid by the Clinton campaign; if so, she should issue a disclaimer. I agree with Kos on this one that the blogosphere is enormous and let them go elsewhere if they want. Actually I wish Arianne Huffington would send her packing too.

I have been going to the Daily Kos every day since 2004. I deleted the bookmark today, and I won't be back.

That site has become a cesspool of extremist hate against a democratic candidate. The people at DKos have treated Hillary Clinton with such disdain and disrespect that it borders on the obscene. I find it disgusting and embarrassing. Markos should be ashamed that he has allowed and even encouraged the site to go in this direction. How does this active loathing of a committed democrat help democrats? The simple answer is, it doesn't.

Markos doesn't realize it yet, but his site is through. Once the hype of the primaries is over, he will see his traffic drop off dramatically. He has lost all respect from moderate democrats and independents, and his site has now become a caricature of left-wing hatred. It will become more and more radical and therefore distrusted as a source of information for democrats.

How sad for DKos.

there was a LOT of ugly stuff that precipitated this walkout. administrators on Kos have stood by while Obama supporters tried to find out real life information on Hillary supporters- their real names, where they lived and worked, etc. the FAQs say this is a bannable offense, yet the people who did this are still there, posting away. hmmmm...

when i protested about someone commenting about a "death wish" in a thread about hillary, the administrators warned me, not the person posting the secret service bait! basic legal liability considerations have been ignored by the administrators at Kos in their zeal to support obama.

i hope nobody gets hurt as a result of this, but it's not a safe place to post anymore the way things are now.

The New boss, same as the old boss, is a tune I sure hope I won't be singing in the years to come.
Kos has every right to support whom he wants to win in these primaries, however, he risks the destruction of the very thing he created by playing favorites in his dissemination of information. That is not democratic, and is equally Orwellian as the Bush administration he rails against.
I would urge Kos to reconsider his actions and make corrections to keep equality on his board, but as I said, it is his board, and his to feed or starve.
As a Political cartoonist who is more radical than most in a desire for progressive change find similar discrimination on many boards who ignore my work and pretend I am not out there and won't ad links to my work among other political cartoonists, even though i am a prof.
see my work and make up your own mind.
www.whatnowtoons.com
cartoons for the coming progressive age.

Brad, you know I love ya, you, Kucinich, Michael Moore, Palast,and Scott Ritter are my US heros (Feingold was another until he was against impeachment)but please let this go. Rise above it, time will take care of Marcos. Readers , most progressives anyway, are smart enough to read between the lines. If he attacks you yes I agree, attack back. This is something I observe from across the border. Too much "in" bickering. I also see since reading US blogs that you are a very competitive nation, even in little things.
but...If Hillary gets nominated I will begin digging the moat, all along the border from Niagara Falls, west to BC.

I've been a long-time lurker here but I've decided to come out just to say I've been to Kos many times and stopped going there, except occasionally just to see if things have changed. Sadly, that blog will turn a lot of people off the "progressive" wagon before election day. That's the price any blogger pays for being rabid instead of moderate, myself included. So, I just want to reiterate that the best way to get your distaste of Kos across is to just not go there.

{Ed Note: You just forgot the "dot" in your dot com. It's fixed now. You should fix it in your comment box. --99}

GWN -

For what it's worth, I tend to only blog items for which I may be able to add something. In this case, I am able to add to "Alegre's" call for a writers strike by offering my insight as a blog owner that it's not writers striking that hurt, but readers striking.

In this case, I don't even necessarily advocate for or against such a strike, but rather offer that information to those who do, if useful.

My position on the behavior of Markos and a number of his front-page contributors is well known. I respect my readers enough that they can decide for themselves what, if anything, they wish to do (or not do) in response.

For the record, I don't wish any of them, or the blog as a whole, any ill, nor do I feel competitive with them. To the contrary, I think the voice they've gained is an important one, and therefore, I hate to see it abused, used irresponsibly or self-destructively as I have seen occur over there now for far too long. I hope Markos will listen to the messages that good folks are trying to send him. If he doesn't, of course, there's nothing that I can do about that, even though it would continue to be a pity.

The difference to me about certain blogs is evident.

The Conservative ones seem to be more authoritarian in the way they handle their posters.

The Liberal ones are more open to the new ideas that emerge, but some do become more dictatorial in their way of handling things.

I guess blogworld imitates real life history (the human condition), doesn't it.

Yuh, Flo, we continue to blow every opportunity for transcendence we ever get. One thing I value very highly here is Brad's continued efforts to keep those opportunities coming... his failure to give up.

brad, i stopped visiting the kos long ago, when he refused to even consider the possibility that the '04 election may have been robbed. he was so pompous and dismissive, even mocking, it turned my stomach.

occasionally someone will quote or link to the site, and more often than not i just ignore it. when i haven't, nothing has impressed me. the entire enterprise just seems so grossly over-rated.

cannonfire addressed markos' latest inflammatory madness, the claim that the hillary campaign used intentionally doctored videos of obama to make him look darker and broader in the face. i.e., more black. cannonfire took that notion apart brilliantly, but did markos back down? oh no, didn't even budge.

but i fear the meltdown described at dkos is quite the epidemic these days. sigh. so much at stake, and everyone's at a fever pitch. we must all really strive to keep even keels and not allow ourselves to get fired up. it serves no one but our adversaries to lose our heads.

Yep, that's why I continue to hang around

Good people at Kos should leave and try to find greener pastures. That is a compromised website.

http://rawstory.com/comments/46357.html

posted by anonymous

i've given up on the dem blogs almost entirely. it is as if dems are determined to give mccain the presidency - how did that happen? the corpmedia game you all. the trolls were their weapon.

off-topic: any chance we could get new windows when clicking on links? thanks.

I read many blogs daily, and I can only say that the vitriol I find on the various sites against Hillary is only AFTER Hillary, or one of her Surrogates, post something that is so out of line against Obama, that it truly NEEDS ATTACKING.

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. STOP HILLARY AND GERALDINE, ETC., FROM NEEDLESS ATTACKS THAT DON'T LEAD TO POLITICAL DISCOURSE, AND THE ATTACKS AGAINST HILLARY WILL STOP.

IT'S SIMPLE---FOR EVERY ACTION THERE IS A REACTION..

JUST STOP IT!!!

Elliots Mess

Palast

Scroll down for audio, it' better when Greg tells it.
Kinda like dad reading you a scary bedtime story.

Preditory Capitalism

That's redundant, Flo. Capitalism is predation. And that picture is the perfect expression of it. The few who benefit from it, very unfortunately, don't let themselves understand that their benefit comes directly at the cost of the many suffering from it.

Maybe the anti Clintonista support is a sign of the number of those for Obama, and opposing Shilary.

OVERWHELMING NUMBERS ON THE BLOGS!!!

Two OTHER blogs obviously shillin for Shil have lost readership.

It pretty much tells the story, no?

Cuz, there are some SERIOUS things to consider if Clinton GETS the nomination.

One being, she's unelectable and we are in for four more or 8 more years of Republican Rule for the 1%.

I don't know why this debate is still even legit.

But let the Clintonista's howl like the blame monkey's they are.

I think Ferraro, and Teh Shil, have proven their victim point of view. We shouldn't be electing self claimed victims to our highest office, methinks.

I said Aurevoir at DKos even before the Writers Strike was declared.
The site used to be a vital community of progressive activists and now it is nothing more than a viper's tangle of crazed Obama supporters who will brook no alternate views.

The vitriol and personal attacks are beyond the pale.

While this references DKOS, I think this Don Siegelman article is worth the read:

http://www.crooksandliar...-all-roads-lead-to-rove/

- Tom

Hi Brad, saw a link at noquarter, and thought i'd stop by. I too zapped my bookmark for DKos a couple months ago, as well as several others sites. Haven't missed the venom a bit i must say. It has been nice discovering so many new, well run sites that are reaping the advantage of the DKos (et al) bleed out.
There is always a silver-lining I suppose
Peace!

If you think the primaries are bad around DKos, wait until after the election when the real ego's emerge. When someone writes a diary wanting to restrict who will get to write a post because they can't take the LOW QUALITY OF THE WRITING.

I have noticed also that it is a Dem politician dumping ground. They all go atwitter when a pol posts a diary and it immediately gets uplisted. This is great for pols who are looking for quick small donations, e-mail lists, and ego stroking no matter what the issue.

I quit going there months ago, not because of the primary venom which is a pain, but because there is nothing new. It's a forum where people share information. If what they post is no longer useful then stop clicking.

dkosanostra is a drag ... afraid to consider some of the bushie regime's gretest nightmares.

Plus dkosanostra is fatally infected with the deibold faith/election religion and is even evangelical about it.

Nutso.

I never go there, because I think the site stinks. I have no interest to go there.

Aweakness of that type of blog is its emphasis on the people instead of prinicples and policy. For those of us interested in learning about and discussing substantive issues and policy, there hasn't been a meta venue. My own experience there was to write substantive issues and policy related posts and to be personally attacked whenever the argument wasn't foursquare aligned with the Dem. party talking points. Very few people ever commented on the substance of my posts, and comments usualy stayed in the shallow end of the pool. The blog served a purpose in attracting people to politics who hadn't before had a venue for participation.

But it's already a dinosaur, and it's hastening its own extinction with the ad hominem nature of participation and administrative oversight. As many have noted, it's more often the diaries which write to the personal and unsubstantive, that are widely read and recommended, while the substantive and well-constructed diaries on issues, policy and oversight are relegated perhaps to the rescued pile, but are most likely disappeared quickly to die a death of the unread.

I hope tha the next wave of group blogs will emulate a hive behavior more along the lines of a Talking Points Memo structure. Substantive, issues and policy focused with a much longer range - and broader ranged view.

I am seeking group blogs which remain true to vigorous research, civil discourse, logical argument and substance. I want to read essays by people who are passionate and ethical about their interests. That eliminates Daily Kos, and I've turned my attention elsewhere with no regrets.

Frankly I am sick of many blogs that have become little-jonny-one-notes for either candidate. I stopped reading huffpo some time ago because of the relentless Clinton bashing & more recently stopped reading the great grandfather of liberal blogs, bartcop, because of the relentless Clinton boosterism. It is tiresome folks, just tiresome - neither of these two descended from heaven with golden tablets.

Personally I believe the front page of kos is better balanced than many (I have been ignoring the boosters individual blogs so maybe I have saved myself from the agita many of you are suffering from.

We crossed a lie some time ago when we could easily repair the damage online backers of either candidate have caused, sadly.

The candidates have been far better than a few hotheads posting blogs. That is with one notable exception: Clinton crossed an unforgivable line when she claimed McBush is more qualified than Obama to be CinC. McBush is less qualified than ANY of the Dem contenders, including Gravel. That was not smart, it was not fair and it is not forgivable. I would, however, vote for her in November if that was the choice.

On line we need to remember who the real evil empire is, it is not kos, or brad or BHO or HRC - it is the RNC and whatever brain damaged excuse for a candidate they provide. Boosters have gotten carried away with the notion that they see truth others can't - that is a good working definition of insanity. People of good faith should agree that we support candidates for our own reasons and other do so too. We need to respect each other just as we want out opinions to be respected.

And that concludes todays sermon.

They should call it, Daily Cops. Most of the posters devote their effort to dragging down anyone who tries to inject an original opinion.

here here, annie!

how i wish dailykos were the only site diving off the cliffs into irrationality and fury, but alas, there seem to be more than one.

what interests me is that these rabid, vicious, tyrannical, mywayorthehiway, o'reilly clones fail to recognize how they have become those very characters they've spent years lambasting as 'rightwingnuts'.

well, we now have our own growing - sadly - crop of leftwingnuts. and we would do very very well to learn from history and vocally, actively distance ourselves from them immediately while also addressing their destructive and counterproductive nature and how and why to correct it.

no matter how 'right' any individual might be on a certain point, NO ONE is going to hear it, much less be swayed by it, if it is screeched and pounded down our throats by a dictatorial echo chamber. and of course the screeching dictators inevitably lose their capacity to listen to reason because they're shouting so loudly. and of course because they are so 'right.'

not only must we refuse to enable those sites by refusing to visit them, we must also work diligently to maintain the discourse wherever we are civilized and respectful, always.

so glad you guys are out there, and that brad fosters such civility. it's the only way any real differences can be made. life's just too darn short to alienate anyone; we need all the friends we can get, and ultimately, we're all in this together.

frankdawg81 said:

Clinton crossed an unforgivable line when she claimed McBush is more qualified than Obama to be CinC. McBush is less qualified than ANY of the Dem contenders, including Gravel.

Way to spin, that's NOT what she said. In Fort Worth Hillary responded to a question regarding national security experience. Her reply:

“I think you'll be able to imagine many things Senator McCain will be able to say,” she said. “He’s never been the president, but he will put forth his lifetime of experience. I will put forth my lifetime of experience. Senator Obama will put forth a speech he made in 2002.”

A flippant remark? Yes, but in no way giving McCain any credit beyond what she believes he will say. Context is a bitch, ain't it?

On March 6, in New York Hillary said:

“I think that since we now know Sen. McCain will be the nominee for the Republican Party, national security will be front and center in this election. We all know that. And I think it’s imperative that each of us be able to demonstrate we can cross the commander-in-chief threshold,” the New York senator told reporters crowded into an infant’s bedroom-sized hotel conference room in Washington.
“I believe that I’ve done that. Certainly, Sen. McCain has done that and you’ll have to ask Sen. Obama with respect to his candidacy,” she said.

Maybe Joe Lieberman will give Obama some tips. He is his mentor after all. ;o}

I stopped visiting dKos because, irrespective of their politics, readers/diarists were not posting substantiated facts. Opinions are presented (often as fact) consisting mostly of vitriol and invective. I found little that was helpful as I searched outside the MSM for "real news" and information about what is really going on in our world.

I stopped visiting DailyKos over a year ago and it sounds like it's gotten much worse. The second I found out they don't ALLOW comments or diaries about 911 conspiracy theories blew my mind. So they don't like election fraud as a topic, either? If they don't allow all topics, whether or not Markos likes them, then they are not "liberal" in any sense of the word. The Hillary bashing is not new. It's been going on since last year. I'm not surprised to see it's ramped up. It's sort of reflective of the mainstream media, no? I mean, they are merciless with her. It disgusts me, and I'm not even a Hillary fan. I think DailyKos sucks, really.

KOS is no less a tool of the elite than the New York Times.

All these politicians smell like rot because the political process is so rotten.

How about a transparent open source voting system accessible online, where information about issues and platforms will not be limited by the amount of money spent by a candidate or party.

Democracy anyone?

I have drifted away from Kos for awhile, but I'm sure I will be back frequently. I would rather jump off a roof than vote for Hillary Clinton. She is a complete, 100% phony, bought and paid for by the drug, medical insurance, and oil lobbies. The Clintons are addicted to power, which they view as a sort of entitlement. If it has escaped your attention so far, the Clintons are A LITTLE corrupt!

Given the sort of negative brochures I received about Obama here in Ohio, I feel her supporters here have no grounds whatsoever to snivel. I hope I never have to hear the strident, scalding sound of that nasty woman's abrasive voice ever again. I can hardly wait to see the back of her.

You know, it's funny. After years of waking up in the morning after nightmares about George W. Bush, I find myself waking up after nightmares about Hillary Clinton. The country - which is in very bad shape - simply cannot withstand four years of her and good old Bill. Thank you.

Dkos is not alone. and is not much worse than places like antiwar.com- A CATO Institute project, undisclosed, that uses Nazi tactics. Matt Barganier posted the employer of a blogger he disagreed with along with an admonition for his readers to contact the guy's boss and get him fired! Blacklisting beyond his blog- with advoctes like this- who needs government???

Even some of the actual brownshirt sites havent pulled THAT one (yet). Authoritarianism is rampant on the web and its not limited to left or right.

Writers who are strike.
Any blogger who strikes Daily Kos has joined me your reader. Reader on strike. I am also very upset with Air America's Randi Rhodes especially, then David Bender, John Elliott, Richard Greene, and sometimes Sam Seder. How dare they tell me who to vote for especially Randi. I hate it when they say we have two great candidates, but you know Hillary is a this or a that. Shameful!!!!!

I have stopped podcasting Randi's show and I paid to be a premium member. She uses her entire 3 hours to bash Hillary.

Crooks and Liars is trying to stay out of the fray, but TPM is in the fray.
We Democrats helped liberal talk shows, and liberal blogger to gain success. Why are they pushing for us to vote for their candidate? Who told them they had a right to tell us who to vote for. Who is bringing this discourse into our election, them. Hillary has been hit hard by Democrats, and the media.
Norma
Bakersfield

If you don't like the content, there is a simple thing to do --- DON'T GO! I'm agnostic on DKos but Marcos did correctly say The internet is a big place. As an antiwar non-party affliated poster/lerker, I've been frustrated with dKos, but it's quite interesting that anti-Hillary attitude on certain blogs is what's captured the MSM attention. Hmmmm Hillary lovers go back to Hillaryis44, dKos is a grassroots activist site and the antithesis of Billary campaign's MO

I have also quit viewing the dKos site. During the Edwards campaign, they were hostile to Edwards supporters. Edwards had people posting diaries on Kos and then appealing for help voting them up on the Edwards site just to be seen or heard. I suspect this happens alot for anybody trying to be seen or heard, and the "voting" system can operate effectively as a censor as much as it can "quality control". dKos is so big, I think the "vote-up/down" idea isn't really feasible. I guessed that when they also started posting "Diary Rescues".

A "diary" is a diary whether it is a mundane set of observations or a rant. When you write as a blog, you adopts an editorial voice. dKos is trying to do both and it is unwieldy.

Yes, I quite them long ago...there are nothing but subversives, illegal Mexicans, drug dealers, and bigots there. There is nothing even remotely democratic about them. Markos wouldn't even let me post a blog there. Tried to delete my info there and they wouldn't let me do that....wonder if I can sue? They really are anti-American!

COMMENT #33
... shimez said on 3/16/2008 @ 11:50 am PT...

Dkos is not alone. and is not much worse than places like antiwar.com- A CATO Institute project, undisclosed, that uses Nazi tactics. Matt Barganier posted the employer of a blogger he disagreed with along with an admonition for his readers to contact the guy's boss and get him fired! Blacklisting beyond his blog- with advoctes like this- who needs government???

Even some of the actual brownshirt sites havent pulled THAT one (yet). Authoritarianism is rampant on the web and its not limited to left or right.

How is antiwar.com a Cato Institute project? I went to the search engine and could only find attacks on antiwar.com which were linked to the Cato Institute. I see accusations here with no links.

To paraphrase, the kicker is that there are extremes on both the left and right.

The truth is that progressives have become marginalised by the astroturfing firms. Such forces are worried that we the people are gonna figure out how to interact with facts and dignity. They are afraid that a critical mass of awareness is advancing despite their manipulations.

Where disinfo is not allowed, there is a greater chance for good people to associate and work together. The odds are then better that consensus can be reached, and that strategies can be implemented with the goal being to save the planet from warpigs.

If you don't like DKos, then don't go there. It's that simple. Make your own site for Pete's sake. I don't hear you guys complaining about being shut out of Freep or town hall. Plus, you can't call everything you agree with unbiased and everything you disagree with as biased.

Hillary supporters: Will you please stop taking every criticism of Hillary personally or as evidence some vast sexist, reverse-racist conspiracy to keep women down? Ever thought the criticisms of Hillary might actually be valid? And that Hillary actually does have more to criticize than Obama? IT'S NOT BECAUSE SHE'S A WOMAN, IT'S BECAUSE SHE'S HILLARY! Address the criticisms, tell us why you think they are not important rather than lashing out at us as cultists, reverse-racists and sexists. Characterizing us and calling us names simply undermines the discussion (same for Obama supporters.)

#35

"dKos is a grassroots activist site"

Kos has been astroturfed as being such. Newbies and fence sitters might want to engine search Kos and cia.

That place is part of a "controlled opposition." If it was for real, there would be an outcry there about the illegal and immoral war. If it was legit, it wouldn't be calling those concerned with election integrity "conspiracy nutters." DailyKos is toast. As time goes on, people will inevitably see the place for what it is, a rightwing website in progressive clothes.

It's interesting to see the non-progressive section of the Democratic party batter each other with vitriol, or spatter each other more aptly. Just try reading ThinkProgress where no discussion of Democrats is tolerated at all. Instead one can only batter and spatter Republicans.

As a true progressive I have to say DailyKos has no bearing on anything material to the election. It's just big egos trying to out do each other. So spatter on. No one really cares and it really doesn't matter. Obama isn't much better than Clinton, but he's newer, and that is the only avenue of hope. Hillary is just more of the same corruption. Obama's corruption will eventually get old, but maybe, just maybe, the people can get some relief from the ongoing destruction of our economy and of course relief from the Iraq war. Will Obama end the war? Probably not. What will end the war is the destruction of the US economy. So maybe Hilary should win, or McCain, thus hastening the demise of the Country, and thereby the end of the empire.

It's hard to know what one should do in these circumstances, but caring about the squabbling between competing wings of the imperialist Democratic party is not among my choices.

Daily Kos, is that a blog site? Never heard of it.

I am not ashamed, I am a Liberal!!!

...a proud Socialist Liberal at that

Good news!!! My brother-in-law, a lifelong Puke, called me yesterday to tell me I was right all along!!!.
He went so far as to say...get this...that we have to go to a Socialist Government!!!
He sees now that energy, Corps, stock market and utils have to be regulated, and that programs have to be put in place to help people that fall through the cracks!!!

I'm stoked now

Flo! THAT SO SERIOUSLY ROOOOOOCKS!!!!

99, he-he

And he also said that unions have to be re organized, tariffs put in place, that NAFTA, CAFTA and GATT have to be repealed, that we need socialized medicine and that...gulp...taxes have to be raised for the better good of society.

I was elated that he woke up to say the least and told him that he was never really a Republican at all, he was just misled by the CMSM.

Well, when he falls of the turnip truck he sure does it in a big way! Are you sure he doesn't have a brain tumor?

Actually, I have a friend who is a staunch Republican, but keeps hollering about there being no local, state or federal services to help poor and handicapped people! I can holler till I'm blue that Job One for Republicans is to prevent that stuff, but it never sinks in. She's otherwise very intelligent and I have come to think she just has synaptic malfunction at the point where her party affiliation is lodged in her brain. She's one of the most liberal people I know. Very strange.

Tumor LOL

No, what I think he sees is that his kids are falling behind big time and do not have the same opportunities that he did.
And he now realizes that what we had back then (before Reagan) worked

So can we have Republican Socialists now? Democratic Socialists have failed, thus far, to improve things....

I read DK and find it very enjoyable. If the Clinton whiners don't like it - go somewhere else. Seems to me they are always trying to "make someone pay" for not carrying their water.

Actually, Flo, what works, what has proven itself completely workable, is high quality public education, a fully-functioning fourth estate and election integrity. I think things went off the rails with the McCarthy hearings, and Reagan just dealt the crowning blows.

I JUST TORE OUT ALL MY HAIR!

I'd like to bash Hillary with a cast iron pan right now.

the rot set in at dkos early on. after the fraudulent elections of 2000 and 2004, fraud - which no doubt existed earlier but which was made more evident by the wonders of the internet - kossacks spent more time vilifying bev harris than actively working to have the elections cleaned up.
as an outsider, it amazed me that so many dem websites failed to have links to bradblog, votersunite etc.

however, i was still amazed at how completely new, dubious posters took over dkos when this endless election cycle began.

incredibly, dkos became indistinguishable from drudge and the corpmedia, who were giving obama a free pass while dredging up the anti-clinton stuff that had been the staple of drudge and the corpmedia for nearly two decades.

the corpmedia - the real enemy - were determined however to frame the entire dem candidacy as between obama/clinton, which was not in the interest of the dem party, as i saw it. personally i think john edwards would have been a more unifying choice, given al gore clearly understood americans were not yet ready for him, or for doing the necessary things to obviate the worst impacts of partly human-induced climate change.

what was ridiculous was the way dkos and other such dem websites would attack clinton all day, yet not allow any scrutiny of obama. his church was always going to be his achilles heel, yet the corpmedia wouldn't touch on it til now. why was that? obviously, they waited til the 'maths' favoured obama.

at this point, mccain is probably destined to be the next president. shame.

now there is the hilarity of seeing rightwing libertarian websites which are banned from even being mentioned on dkos and other websites, backing obama. u have to laugh.

go to bbc, murdoch press outside the US, and other world newspapers in the past few days, and u still won't see coverage of the obama/pastor/rezko stories. yet, up until now, the world press has been having a pro obama or anti clinton story on their homepages on a daily basis.

the world had to put up with the corpmedia's assassination of the clintons for the entire duration of the clinton presidency and beyond, so it hardly made sense that she should come under so much scrutiny and sensationalised reporting on the most minor details of her campaign, yet people were voting for obama without knowing a thing about him, due to the corpmedia's failure to cover what was easily known long before now.

british journo nick davies has a book out called 'flat earth news' and had this to say recently on australian abc radio:

Feb 2008: ABC Australia: Media Report: Journalists and their information
Interview with the Guardian's Nick Davies, who has a new book called 'Flat Earth News'.
Nick Davies: It's because in the background, ownership of newspapers on the whole has moved from the old family firms that were run by some pretty crap people, like William Randolph Hearst in the States, or Lord Beaverbrook, you know, propagandists. It's moved from those into the hands of big corporations, and they understandably enough want to make money. So they slowly cut our staff and they've increased our outputs, all the newspapers have masses of supplements and broadcasting goes 24 hours around the clock, and again, my specialist researchers from Cardiff University did a lot of number crunching about this, and as a crude underlying trend, they're saying in British national newspapers, reporters are filling three times as much space as they used to 20 years ago. So story by story, they only have a third of the time, yet when you follow that through into particular stories like the weapons of mass destruction where almost everything we told you was wrong, most of the scandal around Bill Clinton, what we told you was wrong, the millennium bug, do you remember that? We got almost all of that wrong, all around the planet. And then the little stories that just flow through the newspapers, they're just there for 24 hours and then fade away; so many of them are false, so many of them are distorted. It's really quite scary.
http://www.abc.net.au/rn...stories/2008/2166826.htm

it would be interesting to know if much of what was written and broadcast about the clintons was 'wrong'. after all, we didn't have the internet at full bloom in those days to help us make up our own minds.

what i do know is dkos and other dem websites caused americans to vote for obama who would never have voted for him had they known what they are beginning to know now. that is so dishonest as those people cannot get back their votes.

one example of the corpmedia's bias is mentioned on abc today, where it also mentions film of obama in wright's church during a 'fiery' sermon is about to surface (no surprise):

15 March: ABC: Jake Tapper: Just What Did Obama Know About Wright's Past Sermons?
In a phone call with Wright, Obama cited a Rolling Stone story, “The Radical Roots of Barack Obama," (the name of which has curiously been changed on the RS website) and told him, according to Wright, “You can get kind of rough in the sermons, so what we’ve decided is that it’s best for you not to be out there in public.”
http://blogs.abcnews.com.../03/just-what-did-o.html

"rolling stone" changed that headline to "destiny's child" . no prizes for guessing why.

The 2008 Primaries: Statistical Footprints of Election Fraud
TruthIsAll

http://www.geocities.com...l/2008PrimariesLinks.htm

Mar. 15 2008

The pattern is very clear. Starting with Clinton’s New Hampshire primary “upset”, there has been an ongoing effort to pad her votes at the expense of Obama. And no wonder: the Republicans want to run against her and are doing all they can to make it happen. Even so, Obama currently leads the recorded popular vote by 700,000. But he may very well be leading the True Vote by 1,500,000 or more. That would make a big difference in pledged delegates. It’s the ultimate Rovian dirty trick: tear apart the Democratic Party. Divide and Conquer: it’s the only way the Republicans can win in November. And yet the media doesn’t investigate the footprints of election fraud. They want the “horserace” to continue.

1. New Hampshire
The Final pre-election polls (3-4% MoE) gave Obama an average 8% margin over HRC. The early (unadjusted) exit poll had Obama winning by 8%. He won New Hampshire hand-counts by 5.90% but lost machine-counts by exactly the same margin.

2. South Carolina
Even though he finished third, Edwards would have done better in the general election than either Clinton or Obama.

3. Super Tuesday
Just like the 2004 battleground state exit poll red-shift to Bush, 14 of 16 states had a Hillary-shift from the exit poll to the recorded vote. In New York, over 80 precincts, many in black areas, recorded ZERO votes for Obama. Mayor Bloomberg called it fraud. In Los Angeles, 90,000 independent votes were uncounted due to the confusing ballot design (shades of the Florida 2000 “Butterfly”).

4. Ohio
Clinton's vote share exceeded her 9pm exit poll share by 3.6% (55.2-51.6%). She won the recorded vote by 10.6% (55.3-44.7%) over Obama. But her exit poll margin was just 3.4% (51.7-48.3%). As is always the case, the Final Exit Poll was adjusted to match the vote count. Seventeen thousand Republicans followed Rush Limbaugh’s advice in Cuyahoga County and crossed over to vote for Clinton.

5. Primaries, Caucuses and Exit Polls
Obama is doing better in the primaries than the recorded votes indicate. But that’s not unexpected; it’s always the fate of the progressive candidate to fare better in the exit polls than in the vote count. He also does much better in human-counted caucuses than machine-counted primaries (see Texas). He leads Clinton by 700,000 votes in primaries (49.5-46.9%) and by 66.3-33.7% in caucuses. If exit polls rather than recorded votes are counted, Obama would be leading by 1.6 million votes.

In Texas, there was a strange, impossible result: Zero votes were cast for Republicans in 21 counties (all 36,239 ballots cast were for Democrats). There were zero votes cast for Democrats in 3 counties (all 1865 ballots cast were for Republicans). Did Republicans follow Rush Limbaugh’s advice and cross over to vote for Clinton? We can assume that crossovers, even if not 100%, occurred in other counties.

In Mississippi, Obama won by 61-37%, but 25% of Clinton’s votes came from Republicans who followed the advice of Rush Limbaugh. Obama won 65% of Democrats and Independents.

I was troll rated off of DailyKos a couple years ago. Death Sentence for repeatedly asking why would a supposed democrat i.e. Hillary Clinton vote FOR the Iraq War? DailyKos is everything that is NOT America and everything that IS a fascist dictatorship. The 1st amendment only applies to users who agree 100% with the ruling politbureau. You can go from being a trusted user to being troll rated and banned for life in the course of a single day. A very sad exercise in thought/opinion control. DailyKos comes off as totally Orwellian Doublespeak in its efforts to appear neutral and unbiased. LIVE FREE OR DIE - Easterling

99 #53

It's all smoke and mirrors, poll, media and election manipulation anyway.

All you have to do is look
at the voting lines

After that CIA stuff came out, and with all the mind games over there, isn't it fair to ask whether DailyKos was rigged from the start to have the success it did? Is Kos a spook dealing with ideas?

I am finding it very strange looking at these people's backgrounds. If Hertzberg was in the Dept. of Defense, how'd he end up running that now deleted domain Election Science Institute? Kos and Anderson Cooper have ties to the CIA? Huffington was libertarian/rightwing and Hitchens lefty Progressive, and then they flip-flopped?

What about Mike Rivero? Is he a spook? He has said he worked for NASA. How come his email address as a google forum blogger included jpl and mil? As in jetpropulsion laboratory and military?

With all due respect to Larry Johnson, he is ex-CIA? If so, why are we supposed to trust him? If he can admit it should be disbanded along with the NSA, then we can talk. This cointelpro/netvocates/Kos/Rivero/Karl Rove type crap needs to go.

I think it's great that Kos has been exposed. But there is a bigger picture to astroturfing than just him.

Is Michael Rivero a spook?

The only time I've ever looked at Kos was the "darkening Obama's picture" thing. I like Obama, but the evidence was just not there.

Sorry if I 'spin' HRC's threshold comment as claiming BHO is not qualified to be CinC but I don't see how it can be 'spun' as anything else.

I have never screwed a goat and I know Senator McBush has never screwed a goat but you'll have to ask Michelle is she has ever screwed a goat.

Yes ma'am I certainly didn't just imply you screwed goats, just like HRC didn't imply BHO is unqualified.

You attack me as if I am a BHO supported & just like you claim kos does to HRC supporters. This is how these silly wars start.

Given Markos' connection to the CIA, I have always viewed dKos as a way to get an idea of what disinfo the CIA wanted me to swallow.

It has never had any credibility for me.

My name is Neil Horsley, and I screw goats

Oddly enough, Barack Obama is the only presidential candidate I've ever known anything about. I'm from Hawaii and have friends who went to school with him. They tell me he hung out with the "nerdy smart kids" . I'm very familiar with the school,too, kind of a sheltered prep school for bright kids whose parents can afford the tuition. He probably came to the Mainland knowing next to nothing about "black" culture. This description of him as this somewhat naiive intellectual type is, I imagine, completely accurate. Very interesting guy and atypical politician.

At the risk of being bashed, I want to say some things in defense of dKos.

1. There are over 150,000 registered users. Any of them can comment and publish diaries. The validity of the content is managed, in many ways, by the readers (not by Kos). That means that both trash and treasure get through.

2. Many of us, myself included, don't give a rip about what Markos thinks. He has his opinions, states them from the hip and many, myself included, have gone 'round the table with him. He does not own our minds, nor do the front pagers and we are nobody's minions.

3. Many of us on the site deplore the current primary vitriol. We avoid the candidate diaries like the plague. However, a few have managed to keep those particular diaries (and the vitriol) going. It is indeed hard to say anything positive about Clinton or anything negative about Obama without getting blasted. Heck, I was blasted when I recently commented that Obama's oratory had improved! Several took offense because, in their minds, Obama's oratory has always been wonderful. So, I'm agreeing that less than intelligent discourse can take place there. But let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. There's still a lot of good material. Unfortunately, a lot is being missed with the divisiveness of the various primary camps. Those of us who have been around a while are hoping that ends soon. Indeed, some have started labeling their diaries with NACD (not a candidate diary) as a refuge for those of us who don't want to accidentally sink into a candidate diary.

4. Check out diaries by nyceve who covers health care, bonddad who covers economic issues, and jerome a paris who covers economic and environmental issues. None of them are front pagers. They write excellent material. Diarist like those make up the heart of dKos.

5. There is a blogroll on the lower right hand front page. It changes daily. Each diarist has his/her own blogroll that is displayed in each diary they write.

6. What makes me saddest is that the vitriol that has been the hallmark of the republicans ("Yer a terrist sympathizer and unpatriotic --- and probably gay or something") has spilled over into the blogosphere in general. Yes, some holy wars have broken out on dKos, but now the Democratic blogs are fighting each other in the same way.

I have nothing but the highest respect for BradBlog and what Brad has done. I've referred to bradblog in my dKos comments, it's on my blogroll (and will remain), given credit and plugs on dKos for the work done here and have even donated a miniscule amount to this site.

My belief is that the differences between and among us are small. We don't need to demonize each other. dKos is not perfect: it's big and requires self-policing and is showing the risks inherent in that.

I believe that we would be better off resolving our disagreements and differences (or overlooking them, assuming they aren't too egregious) across blogs. They all have a different purpose.

And please don't give Markos too much credit for being able to dictate. Most of us regular non-front pagers laugh hysterically at that concept.

Can we be friends? Seriously. We're all (flaws and all) too important to the democractic process to turn on each other. We need each other.

Great thread!

Truth is All~(#55)
Wowwweeee. Just incredible! A million gracious thanks for that post. I'd love to include some of that info in upcoming vid's...

(Aside: as I've been WAY OFF n' WELL OVER DKOS now for a long time when it became clear they wouldn't allow any REAL election related info/ swore off ALTERNET last year after they wouldn't post ANY relevant to independent 9/11 investigations/ had to let go HUFFPO last month when they--sickens me to recall--TOLD THEIR READERSHIP TO STOP RESPONDING TO EXIT POLLS! And Keith Olberman (and NBC) is now a bad name in our house after he willingly, knowingly assisted NBC NEWS VP CHUCK TODD's anti-democratic ban on KUCINICH's participation in the MSNBC debates. That being said, I'm a BRADBLOG/ BLACKBOXVOTING/ JOHN GIDEON/ GREG PALAST/ MARK CRISPIN MILLER gal now, all the way and everyday. Happy to report I'm much more efficient without spending all my time fighting people who just wanna fight to fight:)

RE: TEXAS--found out what happened in TEXAS with the NO REPUBLICAN VOTES--turns out they HAVE NO REPUBLICAN PRIMARY IN THOSE DISTRICTS! Dates back to post civil war; strong anti-LINCOLN sentiments throughout rural Texas, no LOCAL REPUBLICAN PARTY EVER ORGANIZED! Instead, the onus to create, organize, and run a primary election is completely on the citizens in these small districts.

RICHARD HAYS PHILLIPS, author of "WITNESS TO A CRIME" looked into it, and recently released the following:

"...I asked for an explanation, and I received one from David Rogers, an attorney in Austin, Texas, described as a supporter of election integrity...

...I was startled by the explanation. It seems that there were no Republican primaries in 21 counties, and no Democratic primaries in three counties. This would explain the numbers, but it would still be a fact that voters of one party or another are disenfranchised, countywide, in many counties in Texas. To me, this seemed unacceptable in a democracy.
Rogers replied that, unacceptable or not, this is the most likely explanation for the results I observed. "Republicans have been disenfranchised like this in Texas for over a century (in fact, getting the number of no-Republican-primary counties below 25 is a recent and remarkable achievement.)"
Rogers explained that while ballots, voting machines, and election workers are all paid for by the state government, the local parties at the county level have to bear the costs of administration and accounting; and they have to find someone to do the paperwork, and somewhere to store the paper. "The costs in time and money to the parties aren't much, but they aren't nothing."
"The failure is almost entirely organizational," Rogers said. "The state party tries to help the local counties some, so which counties have no party changes some from year to year, but the state party can’t force the locals to organize if they don’t want to."

Vickie Karp and Karen Renick just had both men on VOTE RESCUE RADIO, yesterday/ fascinating history lesson.

And TRUTH IS ALL, if you haven't seen THIS data, yet--oh, it's RIGHT UP YOUR ALLEY! Mr. Hays Phillips concludes his missive:

"For the record, in the 21 counties in which there was no Republican primary last Tuesday, Kerry outpolled Bush by 21,089 to 19,732 in the 2004 presidential election, and Bell (the Democrat) outpolled Perry (the Republican) by 9,508 to 6,820 in the 2006 gubernatorial election. In the three counties in which there was no Democratic primary last Tuesday, Bush outpolled Kerry by 3,194 to 456 in 2004, and Perry outpolled Bell by 1,279 to 208 in 2006.The fact that these counties are sparsely populated does not make me feel any better about the disenfranchisement of their voters..."

What a strange time we live in.

First, Obama and his supporters are extremely likely to win, so it would be nice if they could show some class and win graciously. Oh, and put John Edwards on the ticket as Veep. That would help unite the party (and it would make me happy).

Second, All talk of racism or race should cease, regardless of who said what. It's not helping.

Third, "Republican socialists"? WTF?

Fourth, I read yesterday that the Texas primary had something like 2.8 million Democratic voters and that number (for the primary!) is MORE than voted in the 2000 or 2004 general election for Gore or Kerry. It's astounding.

Fifth, did I say what a strange time we're living in?

I hope everybody has tightened their seatbelts since Wall Street is set for some severe bumpiness.

Blog on!

dKos, Bear Sterns, Amurka, and just about anything based-on-bu$shit can go away faster than penis cheney gets off on shock and awe.

So hunker down.

SanitySojourner #64 said:

And please don't give Markos too much credit for being able to dictate. Most of us regular non-front pagers laugh hysterically at that concept.

Trouble is, the media folks out there (CMSM types) do not laugh at Markos or his front-pagers, and allow their dangerous agenda, set on that front page, to dictate how the supposedly "Progressive" blogosphere is reacting to any one thing or another.

In the bargain --- and if you know my beef with dKos, you already know this --- the overly powerful voice of Markos and his front pagers has been used to help marginalize issues of Election Integrity.

If they wish to downplay such things, so be it. If they wish to ban and purge users for discussing them, that's horrible. If they wish to post disinformation and inaccurate points about the fight, I've got a real problem with that.

Can we be friends? Seriously. We're all (flaws and all) too important to the democractic process to turn on each other. We need each other.

I have met Markos once in my life, and have been friendly with him. My beef is not a personal one, it is a professional one, and one which I believe I have used facts to bear out.

On this "writers/readers strike" business, as stated in my original post, I don't particularly have an opinion, since I don't follow dKos due to the above for the most part. But as a blog owner, I though I could advance the story a bit by sharing what it is that *really* gets the attention of blog owners, and that is changes in traffic.

If folks want to take action against dKos, that's how it can be done most effectively (same action can also be used against The BRAD BLOG, btw, if one wishes). If they don't, that's up to them as well.

It is remarkable, however, that folks on the (theoretically) same side of the political spectrum haven't figured out how to debate respectfully.

Apparently what many Dems seem to have learned from 8 years of Karl Rove is that they should behave exactly like him.

I think such folks have missed the point. Big time.

as if to rad my mind Tom Tomorrow has this great piece:

http://www.salon.com/com...cs/tomo/2008/03/17/tomo/

Number of days without screwing a goat: 63 8-{>

frankdawg81, If you saw an attack, maybe you need glasses, or a new monitor. Whatever you have to do to rationalize your own specious attacks, right?

I have been boycotting DKoS for sometime as well. My ability to log in and comment was taken away after I made a series of comments about election integrity. I checked back recently, after sending emails over time and getting no reply, and was allowed to log in but not comment. At that time I was "banned" (around the end of last year) the atmosphere was very pro Hillery and the Obama people were getting the smack down, I might add abusive smack downs. Nice to see them get some of the same back. I guess the momentum has carried Obama (and continues)and overwhelmed the Kossacs.

Michelle, I think most reasonable people would see phrases like this as an attack rather than a reasoned disagreement with another person's opinion:

"Way to spin, that's NOT what she said."

"A flippant remark? Yes, but in no way giving McCain any credit beyond what she believes he will say. Context is a bitch, ain't it?"

Snot and snark are fine, but it is disingenuous to act innocent when you're called on it --- your opinion can stand on its own without having to bash another's (genuinely felt) understanding or opinion. Capiche?

#64 Sanity SoJourner --- I have found many, many non-candidate diaries over at kos to be infected with the same poisonous vitriol, and I just don't have time anymore to wade through the giant blob of quivering, feverish, childish attacks to find them.

Be careful about mentioning Brad Blog over there --- you're very likely to be troll-rated, treated as a 'nutter', or otherwise labeled a 'conspiracy theorist'. Anyone who doesn't enthusiastically echo the kos hive mind becomes a target.

They also seem to have a problem with reading comprehension over there --- unable to discern the difference between explicit statements vs. what they have inferred... i.e., what they thought they read vs. what was actually said. They routinely abuse their own rules for troll-rating and flaming other commenters, especially the front-pagers.

And even now, it would appear that many of them (including Markos himself) seem to have missed the whole point of the strike/boycott --- this has nothing whatsoever to do with any candidate and EVERYTHING to do with them and their irresponsible --- and stupid --- behavior.

They have become what they despised --- little leftwing nuts, just as bad as their freeper counterparts. Maybe the place will return to some semblance of sanity, maybe not. I only know that it is a waste of time for me to go there for the foreseeable future.

I guess I thought progressives were better than that.

"I'm not a member of any organized political party, I'm a Democrat!" - --- Will Rogers

In poking around the intertubes on this particular issue, I've noticed many almost identical pro-HRC comments with different names attached to them. I saw a somewhat similar thing with many rabid HRC posters at HuffPo (before I was banned for life there) who had only recently arrived making nearly identicle comments.

The example here is what BEES (#2) said above is almost exactly what someone named Alegre (a "ringleader" of the walk-out) said over at the Atlantic, and elsewhere.

It is clear (to me at least) that HRC operatives and her proxies are out doing their Rovian dirty work. The memes being planted are that "Obama is toast" to "He has committed political suicide" heard on H&C, Bill Handle (KFI 640am - Los Angeles), and several callers in a row to Stephanie Miller (KTLK 1150am - Los Angeles). It sounds as if the marching orders have been sent and the Mighty Wurlitzer of the MSM is doing its part.

Thanks for all you do, Brad. Keep up the great work.

When I first started posting on DailyKos I paid $100.00 lifetime membership fee. First time I posted something that the trusted users found out of bounds I was troll rated off to oblivion. I had been a trusted user at that time. So I asked for my $100.00 lifetime membership dues be refunded. It took several "I will sue you ass" type emails and a report to the New York Attorney General's office before I finally received an email from the mighty Kos stating that my $100.00 lifetime DailyKos membership dues would be refunded forthwith. DailyKos' boundries are the same boundries set by the FBI, CIA, and MSM. These boundries amazingly are the same boundries observed by MSM, Olberman, Mahar, Stewart et all. Never question or mention 9/11 commission findings for the government always speaks truth. Ya really, hey Kos and all you shill troll Kossacs out there. Hope your BO$$ is paying you well for selling your souls and selling out your country. Eat it Kos you traitor! LIVE FREE OR DIE

Check out this info about MarKos and google for more; http://truth-about-kos.b...amily-and-pollution.html

It's over for Kos.

File under netvocate like activities.

http://www.cybersoc.com/netvocates/index.html

Here's another one. Enjoy.

Bob Parsons of Go-Daddy.com, another cheese-whiz.

I don't think this link is easy to find on google. People and institutions aren't playing fair. Kos is a low level clerk for the cia. He was a dumbass for not covering up his roots better. This is one of the coolest links I ever read.

http://cloggie.org/progg...e-day-whos-your-godaddy/

Huffington post has become as bad as free republic.
They have become part of the blindly deluded sheeple in the cult of St. oBOMB'em the WARMONGERING LIAR and no longer allow freedom of speech (unless it's an obamalamadingdong using rovian slime & slander against anyone that dares to post FACTS about what a LYING WAR MONGER & hate filled racist oBOMB'em (obama) is).

The deluded sheeple in the cult of St. oBOMB'em the war mongering LIAR have become worse than supporters of USURPER ('NAM ERA SILVERSPOON DUTY DESERTER) bu$h & VICE USURPER (FIVE DRAFT DEFERMENTS CHICKENS**T CHICKENHAWK) cheney. It is truly sickening. If reality isn't injected regularly they start comparing him to JFK,MLK,& JESUS all rolled into one when oBOMB'em isn't fit to wash the feet of ANY of them.

They promote him as a PEACE canidate and ignore that he, or more accurately, his puppet masters that pull his strings want to escalate the illegal war of aggre$$ion, ba$ed on lie$ & greed, in Afghanistan and start a new illegal war of aggre$$ion in Pakistan & was warmongering with hitlery against Iran in answer to a retorical question based on a LIE.