Dagnabit! Isn't this whole thing a farce?

If there are errors in the code, what assurance is there that examiners can find them? Nobody writes error-free code; and no amount of screening finds all the bugs. Else why does Microsoft issue fixes every week?

If malware is at work it's even more likely that it won't be found. The second thing hackers do, after wiggling the code, is to hide the traces or program them to self-delete...

Grrr!

The nerve of these f*ckers astonishes me. I can't wait to see them get what they deserve.

"these f*ckers" NEVER "get what they deserve."
they TAKE IT.
mick

How bad are these f*ckers? See for yourself...

http://jeanniedean.livejournal.com/#entry_17210

(Original footage of Leonard Schmiege, Citizen Activist and Videographer, hammering ES&S's lawyers, all ELEVEN of them, about the nature of their proprietary software at the recent Evidentiary Hearings in Tallahassee. What a vile gaggle of Good Ol' Boys they reveal themselves to be...)

I'm no Visionary, but I think these f*ckers are going to fall...and HARD.
(Anybody watching their stock performance, by any chance?) ES&S's case was a joke, and any FOOL could see it. They were disorganized, antagonistic, in many cases just plain WRONG. Even their own expert witness crumbled under the weight of their lightly-lobbed, whiffle-ball questions. Prof. Michael Herron even admitted under oath that without the staggering undervote rate in Sarasota County Christine Jennings would have won district 13.

Gary's decision in this case was staggering. Anybody know anything about His Honor William L. Gary? I Googled him and Googled him, but there's no trace of his judicial history available online...

Curious... the "Big Brother moderation technique doesn't bother me, but up till now there's been reason to be seen for deletions... wrong reasons, but reasons

... but this one didn't make sense.

{Well, it makes sense when you're sick of someone feeling like he has to smack other commenters every time he posts. You could have made your point without the attitude. Big Sister, if you will look, lets you say whatever you want if you're not insulting other commenters, or otherwise breaking the practically no rules here. --99}

Read these links for more of the past chutzpah of ES&S et al

The whole mess we are in today appears to come from that direction

Take the time, it'll be worth it, I promise

#5 For instance, you could sacrifice your "style" of screaming quotes of others' good faith comments and merely proceed to state civilly where you disagree. That would be refreshing.

{Drop it. --99}

IMO 99, the Libertarian "I got mine so screw everyone else" type have the personality of a rhinoceros, I don't think it can be helped in their case... I try to ignore it because in some convoluted way, they are on our side

One can also completely forget addressing any particular commenter, and make a plain statement of one's quibble, especially if one can keep it closer to civil than outright nasty. A few might not realize that someone who doesn't very often comment on the posts themselves, but usually only stops in to slam someone else's comment, complete with insults and name-calling, would be seen as one whose input should be monitored. Lack of insight does go along with such behavior, but surely such people can learn.

Yep, Floridiot. I've been trying to see it that way too. But I do also try to keep people from getting gored so regularly.

Bast above... forget to close one bold tag in one post and it traumatizes her for the rest of her life...

Too silly.

Brad, before things get nasty... did that idea for an "e-voting primer" page go anywhere? I'm about to put structure to republicofnekoslovakia.net and will link to such a page when available... or I can put it together and host it myself if it's not going to be done elsewhere. I'm reachable at...

zapkitty @ republicofnekoslovakia . net

...as well as other addresses. I'm not diffilcult to find on the net

Let me know how that's going and I'll help if needed.

Isn't it funny when members of a particular political party set a precedent in a court case regarding contested election results, then try to argue AGAINST that precedent when it's not in their favor?

I don't know how the attorneys keep a straight face sometimes.

Karma has SUCH a way of biting one on the ass....

The following quote from Brad's article...

"""Circuit Court Judge William L. Gary held in his decision at that time that the proprietary "trade secrets" of ES&S took precedence over Florida voters' right to know what actually occurred in their own U.S. House election."""

...can be re-phrased,

"Circuit Court Judge William L. Gary upheld fascism in America, the blending of government and corporations, by siding with a corporation over democracy and citizens in a democracy".

Howdya like them apples???????????????????

This judge picked a corporation over citizens, and I think he's "in on it" and should get heat for it! There it is, right in front of our faces: A JUDGE PICKED A CORPORATION OVER PEOPLE IN A DEMOCRACY! Fascism!

What good is this judge? I think he should resign.

{...}

The point is that review can and does find errors in code. But we know now for a fact that there has not been an unbiased and competent review by outsiders of the source code and the machines. The election system has completely failed in that regard. For all we know there hasn't even been a biased incompetent review by insiders

{...} What does M$ have to do with writing competent code?

If malware is at work... it would not matter in this particular regard.

{...} the point of the matter is that whether it was malware or malfunction something went badly wrong... and the e-voting shills are telling us "It ain't none of your business!". So it is vital that the source code and the machines be reviewed. More importantly it is vital for the e-voting corporations to know that their crap will be reviewed... and not by paid shills, either.

Hey 99 told you that guy was trouble, but I'm with ya, sure hope he's capable of learning, or should I say capable of swallowing his pride for the sake of peacefully sharing info and letting people make up their own minds. We like to play nice in this sandbox, disagreement doesn't have to be personal which is one of the things I like most about the Bradblog!
Anyway, I find it hilarious that what was once so good for the goose is no longer good for the gander. I just hope the Dems can find and keep their nerve while giving the Rebpugs a good dose of their own medicine. Maybe some of the more moderate ones will finally realize its not about party strangle holds for self enrichment, but what is truely good for democracy. Those who try to rule the sky are destined to fail. See you in the wash!

And tell me, oh master of self-reflection, what will it take for you to realize that sam asked questions, and I answered those questions (without insulting sam)... and that your personal bias and overreactions are keeping the answers to those questions from sam?

{I don't think you can even tell when you're being insulting, but that doesn't mean others will always know you have this problem.}

I'm not speaking of the moderation, I'm speaking of deleting perfectly valid answers in an apparent fit of pique.

{Don't flatter yourself. In fact, it is your apparent need to flatter yourself at others' expense that is my main gripe.}

When you took on the trouble of moderating me you took on the trouble of, essentially, speaking for me. Think about it. And while I can appreciate that you took that trouble instead of simply banning me, it doesn't change the fact that your methodology is haphazard at best, biased at worst, and still... the answers are now in your hands... and you are witholding thenm from sam by your own choice. Will you take the trouble to give sam's valid questions some valid answers?

{Sam's questions were not addressed to you. And while we all appreciate good faith attempts to answer questions, or lend your energy to the answers to any questions, not when you're just using it to turn it into some kind of blood sport.}

Has the hypocrisy of your actions sunk in yet?

{No.}

Or has trying to "make a point" taken precedence over the (presumed) purpose of these comment pages?

{Or something.}

Side note: Hopefully Brad will look beyond this stuff and answer my question about the "primer". I did not bring it up in an attempt to "look good" in your eyes. I don't care if he does it or if someone else does it, or if the vampire catgirls on the Moon do it. It just needs to be done since there is nothing suitable currently available on the national voting integrity sites. Since it was mentioned here I asked here, but I'd really hate building one up myself with my limited time and then finding out Brad's done it, especuially as his will no doubt be better

{And maybe get Emily Post to edit it....}

Yeesh... haven't run into this much cluelessness since the SCMI forums... (but at least the deletions are piecemeal here and not job-lot wholesale as it was over there)

{Yes, I guess people's tolerance for abuse varies from site to site. --99}

I bet the source code once it is released and available for professional analysis will prove to be extremely damaging to ES&S and electronic voting companies in general. It is a practice among software developers to include non-operative comment or remark lines embedded within the operative arcane source code to annotate the code's function to make it easier for the programmers to troubleshoot and debug the software.

This could turn out to be very revealing in proving chicanery is involved and lead to who is responsible for it. That is why ES&S is so very desparate to keep the code out of the hands of outside expert computer analysts. The fact that this Judge William Gary is facilitating this cover-up despite the lack of good legal justification strongly suggests he is a corrupt judge on the take. "Where there is smoke, there is fire," as the saying goes.

ZapKitty -

I've done no work on any "primer" page myself (just the 4000+ pages you see here

Ancient, #16

Yep. I hope too. Thanks.

an OT from one of my kids

Take a newer bill with John Snows Signature on it,
use the Caps initials and the loop in the H in John

What does that spell ?

{Ed Note: Comment removed. Personal attack on other commenters. Please cool down guys. Both myself and 99 have better things to do than moderate comments. Debate all you like, but please keep it civil. It would be very much appreciated. - BF}

...it's "Torretts Keyboard Syndrome"...when you just type belligerent things that don't make sense...they just discovered it...

99 why have I've been banned from wp ?

JoJ ????? I don't know. Maybe you should ask him.

Humm... just got in wp this time.

The issue should not be with the concept of electronic voting, the issue should be on transparency of the system. Australia uses electronic voting, but their code was made public to ensure there were no hidden elements or subterfuge. It is only common sense that any system so central to public life should be open and easy to examine to ensure truth in reporting. This is not a corporate rights issue, this is a national civil rights issue.

(quoting Brad)
{Ed Note: Comment removed. Personal attack on other commenters. Please cool down guys. Both myself and 99 have better things to do than moderate comments. Debate all you like, but please keep it civil. It would be very much appreciated. - BF}
(end quote)

Cool, then flatly state the rules and I will know what to expect if I should violate them. Personal attacks... obviously. But apparently there's some weird stuff on formatting also involved and when I asked for clarification on what I think 99 meant... the request for clarification was deleted without clarification... ... ... not helpful.

"subtle hints" and "insinuations" re: formatting don't help and tend to shorten the temper of certain kitties. But still I did ask... and I'll ask again now:

Because I quoted people's comments when responding to their particular statements or questions... you regard that as insulting?

Or was it because I used boldface to indicate quoted text... do you regard that as insulting?

Or was it both...?

Or neither?

Don't "hint", please answer with the rules so I (and incidentally others) can know what to expect.

Then I will follow the rules, or if I don't... then on my furry head be the results. But it would be nice to know them... in advance.

"I bet the source code once it is released and available for professional analysis will prove to be extremely damaging to ES&S and electronic voting companies in general."

We should be so lucky. Why would they ever reveal code that proves election fraud? They'll just release an edited version that appears fair.

I once saw a magician make an elephant disappear. A whole elephant. What could possibly prevent powerful corporations with unlimited resources from temporarily changing a few bits in voting machines' RAM?

Answer: Nothing.

American democracy RIP 1776-2000.

It's easy to see that if you want to make it to the supreme court, you have to be corporate friendly. This judge is looking to the future.

Larry, #29, and might I add he's from the Fascist South also ?
IMO this place has been into the Corpotocracy (slavery) thingie since the inception :p

Why do you think they vote against their own well being time and again ?, they hate n*****s, thats why

Bottom line without receipts they must show the source codes, you can't just say trust me! In God I trust everyone else must have auditable backups, period!

Let's take every asshole's detailed credit statements and tax bills away and say 'pay it' 'trust us', bet they'd be in court too!

#28 Alan8:

ES&S and the GOP would not be so zealous in fighting to keep the source code from outsider analysis if there was nothing to be found.

If a court or a Congressional committee subpoenas or orders to see the source code, ES&S is not going to have an opportunity to edit the code before it is analyzed by outside parties. Allowing ES&S to edit their source code would obviously be allowing suspected criminals to tamper with potentialy incriminating evidence. If it is not allowed within our justice system for other criminal defendants, why would it be allowed for ES&S? The source code should be readily accessible to computer programmers without ES&S assistance through the election e-vote machinery. ES&S intercession is not needed.

Why are there so many people on this blog so pessimistic and defeatist? That attitude just bolsters the bad guys. I wonder sometimes if you are not trolls out to infect the rest to give up taking action.

Comment #31 Why are there so many defeatists? Why do so many politicians suck? Why are there so many apathetic Americans who care only about themselves? Why does anyone believe that the lying murderers in the White House are still just fighting those wiley terrorists in Iraq because de don like ow fweedom and democracy? Why do Americans think that people fighting against the occupying American armed forces who have installed a puppet government favorable to US oil corporations syphoning the 3rd largest oil reserve in the world are necessarily an insergent or terrorist? What if there family was killed by US bombs or an invasion justified by the US Commander In Chief as having ties to Alqueda (911) and WMD? LIES LIES LIES!

Lastly, why don't people investigate 911 for themselves instead of accepting the Arab terrorist conspiracy when they have knowledge of World Trade Building #7 falling in 5.6 seconds 10 hours after the twin towers even though it was never hit by an Arab hijacked plane?

How many real American heroes with any corporate owned mass media traction are standing up that we must immediately change our ways from the lock-tight evidence supporting global warming climate change in which the US is the #1 producer?

The heroes are few in the human world but the animals in the park are definitely feeling that it's crunch time. Defeatists at Bradblog are more like people seeing the rich greedy fcks who really own this world and their carefully placed corporate stooges drive their Hummer into their private Armagedon by choice instead of passing law after law to save our own world.

Answer: Plenty of heroes at Bradblog,keep coming back. Many work hard to change for the better but the long arm of the anti-environmental torture advocates aka the Bushit administration currently have the upper hand and people have been believing bullshit for so long that they react like a bunch of helpless sheep that do not even think change for the better is possible.

My name is Grizzly Bear Dancer and i have a personal mission to see that the Bushit administration go to jail in the next 2 years.

Floridiot #31

They could call us crazy, but you must have heard this week about the FOIA request that got information about Chief Justice Renquist. People who were ready to testify about his harassment of blacks in line to vote were intimidate or worse when Renquist was being put in.

There are things that really make me embarrassed to be white. Black people should be equally embarrassed by Clarence Thomas.

Amen GBD, I should clarify "this place", meaning the South. I figure it's ingrained in them since cotton was their major export and the whites couldn't hack the heat in the fields, 'let them do it, they're free help', was the mantra back then I'm sure (as the 'Massas' sipped their cool drinks on the porch)
I grew up in a mixed race inner city neighborhood in the North, so I guess I really don't understand that way of thinking.
But i've seen it here, once I was sitting at a red light, and a young white kid next to me was listening to his 'Rap' music, a Redneck started screaming "turn that fu**kin n****r music down !!!"
Another time I took my kids to a resturaunt and there was some salsa music playing on the juke, I liked the tune and walked over to see the name of the tune, there was a redneck at the bar and I jokingly asked him if "he played this song", man, he got all belligerent and red in the face and said, "man I don't play that (you know what ) music, I said, "I think it's Cuban" he said, "I don't give a shit what it is they're all n*****s to me, he said it all loud too (after that, he finished his drink he went out and got into his twenty year old pick-em up truck and headed back to his rented trailer and turned on Faux Gnus)...(thats just two examples, I see this all the time)

Larry, I know, I don't get the Clarence Thomas type either, he would have been 'pickin cotton' still, if it wasn't for our liberal thinking forefathers that had things like the EEOC, et al put into place,
I guess Fascism is a disease that can be caught by anyone, as long as it fills the pockets with mucho dinero