Is this "incitement" ?

Expertly said, Gadfly Brad:

"All of that in contrast to the massive and real grassroots protests that occurred over the last eight years over disastrous and actually illegal Bush Administration policies that were carried out with nary a peep of corporate media coverage (other than to marginalize, lampoon, and otherwise disparage them as "unAmerican")..."

I KNOW and it's killing me. I can see this freight train trend barreling it's way down the tracks at us with all the force of the recent super-sonic corporate and alternate media coverage of the freaky, felonious birthers.

Nothing better exemplifies the "Braindead Megaphone"
http://kottke.org/07/09/the-braindead-megaphone
(visionary, must read essay by George Saunders that describes in detail this right wing "town hall" strategies outlined, above.)

Why didn't we think of this eight years ago? Silly us. We spent all that time trifling with facts and evidence. Stupid of us to have been so smart. How retarded to be consumed with the veracity of our stats, data and our glass reputations --- when it didn't make a snow-mogul hold of a difference.

Clearly, I should've just stormed Kathy Dent's office and started screaming about how she likes to kill kittens while waving around a little plastic baggie full of Kitten Skulls.

At least the ramping and amping of this frenzied, wild-eyed fear and hatred from the radical right wing base further confirms our suspicions surrounding the REAL national dynamic we all thought (and Steve Freeman / Joel Bleifuss confirmed) might be closer to the actual demographics in 2004. That "One State, Two State Red State, Blue State" was a giant lie and a crazy, crooked, loud, white, nasty minority had seized control and were calling the shots.

And now I sigh, dejected, to realize that they still are. Stupid oxygen pigs eating up all the airtime on both my bastardized, demon-seeded TV and my less-than-virgin-but-still-sacred, holy internet.

As always, your astute take on these megaphone morons is refreshing, and much appreciated. But please Brad, please don't continue to feed them to me.

The corporations are good at making conflict where there actually isn't any, just crowd 'em close around the camera.

Well, they're honest about their objectives:

"Be Disruptive..." and

"Not Have an Intelligent Debate".

Thugs.

Jeanni Dean...We would have been branded the loony left. I am so glad that my TV died.

"It will then be reported and perceived as "Democrats and Obama under pressure from the public over their healthcare plans and massive government spending!"

With all due respect, Brad, what healthcare plan? It's a health "insurance" plan aka "bailout" for the health "insurance" companies. Oh, uh not a bailout, bec. really they're doing quite well already.

valley girl,
obama has always said he wants a public option,wether the reps and the pretend blue dog dems give that to him and us is another story

Civil unrest seems to be increasing by each passing day. I see the GOP using freedom of speech to incite folks while trying to take away my freedom of speech, i.e., Rush Limbaugh and Sarah Palin.

And then there are those birthers against Obama; yet the real birther story was the VP pick that continually spewed lies to the American people.

http://palingates.blogsp...gnancy-is-hot-topic.html

Now bloggers on personal blogs telling their stories are accused of being journalists and being outed causing threats of harm or lawsuits. Or the allegation that bloggers are operatives for Obama working on a plan.

The GOP new strategy tactics are a threat to me and my safety and security. As a person with a disability, I would be afraid to voice my opinion in a heated meeting. What kind of people are we becoming and where will it end?

Wow, an actual plan for phony outrage. I've seen everything now. These bastards are walking a thin line. I hope they have health insurance. Not!

Karen from Illinois @ 7 --- Hi, from a Wisconsinite!

Since you probably know more about Obama, can you tell me what his idea of public plan actually is? I went to OFA meeting, and none of the organizers knew what it was, but they wanted us to support it.

People in my meeting kept asking questions, wanting something firm answers, facts.

Since you've been represented by him, do you know?

MUCH appreciated, thnx.

George Saunders is probably God.

I went batshit crazy for his first two short story collections. No kidding. I heavily suspect him of being the missing deity. Those seemingly silly scenarios and interactions are miles deep. Knocks me out! Sublimity! Numinous sublimity. Reading his stuff feels better than the best wine... and even, in too many instances, sex. I'm going to have to settle down with that essay when things quiet down around here.

And as for the thread topic... I'm past caring....

So, did this same media give attention to this memo?

Why is Michelle Malkin on the mainstream "liberal media" TV? You got it! THAT is the question! Isn't it being proven over and over, the media isn't liberal? Like she's some kind of reputable expert to be on TV?

Olbermann had it as his #5 story tonight, as usual he hit it out of the park.
His Special Comment was great!

I've been asking this question for years: WHO is scheduling these people to be on TV? Does anyone have the NAMES of the people, for example, scheduling Michelle Malkin to be on TV as a "reputable expert"?

Does anyone ever think of, or ask these questions?

And then, ask these people, when we find out who they are, why they are scheduling Michelle Malkin on TV?

We don't take the time to think of the root problem: it's the people going out and getting these people to be on TV. They don't appear out of thin air. Someone is contacting them to be on TV. WHO are these people? What are their names? The "TV schedulers"???

People just don't "show up" uninvited as "reputable experts"!

Excellent point, B.D. Now that you mention it, I'd like to know who keeps booking the Cheney's. I'll try to find out...

You turn on your TV, and you see: Lynn Cheney, Dick Cheney, Newt Gingrich, Michelle Malkin, etc..... WHO is picking/scheduling these people?

Do any of you know?

None of these people is in an elected office! And they won't have a senator like Bernie Sanders on TV! So, someone who the people actually voted for isn't on TV, but Lynne Cheney is all over TV!

WHO is picking these people to be on TV?

Well MSNBC had this topic on both Olbermann and Maddow, and also had Bernie Sanders on.

I think the real question is, how do rational people combat such an irrational tactic?

Can the financiers of these fake grassroots people be prosecuted?

Big Dan asked:

Can the financiers of these fake grassroots people be prosecuted?

For what? (Serious question.)

No Big Dan, the SCOTUS ruled that money is the same as free speech

https://bradblog.com/?p=7336#comment-403554

Karen from Illinois- re:

~obama has always said he wants a public option,wether the reps and the pretend blue dog dems give that to him and us is another story~

Uh, so no. Obama has not "always said" this.

http://www.salon.com/opi...ature/2009/05/22/moyers/

quoted from the link above-

"May 22, 2009 | In 2003, a young Illinois state senator named Barack Obama told an AFL-CIO meeting, "I am a proponent of a single-payer universal healthcare program."

There was only one thing standing in the way, Obama said six years ago: "All of you know we might not get there immediately because first we have to take back the White House, we have to take back the Senate and we have to take back the House."

Fast-forward six years. President Obama has everything he said was needed --- Democrats in control of the executive branch and both chambers of Congress. So what's happened to single payer?
----

And, even now Obama's supposed support for the very weak Public Option (as put forth in H.R. 3200) is full of equivocation. The H.R. 3200 version of the Public Option is a gift to "Healthcare Insurance Companies". Obama says "health insurance reform" nowadays.

Hmmm... right.

Check out this nice little debunk of wingnut Orly Taitz and her phony phony birth certificate charges against Obama.

COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
... Brad Friedman said on 8/3/2009 @ 8:00 pm PT...

For what? (Serious question.)

Prosecuted for lying and misinforming the American people. Abusing the power they have, the power of the $$$ they have, that we don't have, to dupe, misinform the American people.

Ugly Titz is whacked, Soul

What if I shouted "FIRE" in a crowded theater, and there was no fire? Is that OK? Is lying OK nowadays? I mean: LYING TO HURT PEOPLE.

They use their power and money to hire people to LIE and make it seem like there's a huge grassroots movement against health care reform. This LYING causes people to DIE because of lack of health care, strictly so they can make more profits.

Let's say, someone I don't like is crossing the road, and they ask me if the coast is clear, and I know it isn't, and I say "YES, go ahead" and they get killed. Is that "OK"? Freedom of speech?

Thousands of people are dying due to lack of or inadequate health care. If the health care industry or astroturfing corporations have a campaign to purposelly misinform people and buy off legislators and that directly stops health care reform, are they guilty of murder?

Danny, the Supremes ruled it is okay to lie on tv. Caveat emptor.

Valley Girl, yes, how ever could he have dreamed up the "blue dog" excuse clear back then? Too green then and too yellow now.

If there is a solution to prevent people from needlessly dying due to lack of or inadequate health care, and there are groups buying off legislators and misinforming the American public to prevent this solution, are they guilty of murder?

99: but if lying is proven to cause people to die needlessly, is that different?

Omigod- you are here Brad, as I see from your comment at

https://bradblog.com/?p=7336#comment-403603

You phrased your question to Big Dan ending with - "serious question"

as mine was to you Brad, very early on in the thread, re: what healthCARE plan.

And, yes, this is MEL, not just some random Valley Girl. And, hmmmm floridiot and Big Dan monikers did ring some BB recognition bells.

and, Brad, course if you want me to sit down and shut up and stop stirring, your wish is my command.

Agent99- not sure it your comment to me is snark or a takedown. Clarification welcome.

They are obstructing health care reform strictly because they would make less profits. They are obstructing change that would cause less people to needlessly die. Their tactic to obstruct, is to buy off legislators and misinform people via the media. They have the $$$ to do this from their profits.

Oh, yipes! Not snark. Not takedown. I was in the middle of another meltdown over this bullshit "healthcare reform" we are not getting. I am 100% with you on it, and so pissed at Obama I am dying to get into that Oval Office and read him up one side and down the other.

I mean, seriously! Grow a pair! Start doing real presidenting! ALL he does is charm his way into doing a better job of taking the same orders * and Fudd did. That's it!

I'm unable to describe adequately just how pissed off I am.

And it creeps me out how he has gone from looking so seriously future statesmanlike to me in 2004 to looking so upsettingly callow and invertebrate to me now. I can't look at him! He looks pre-pubescent to me now.

It's made the worse because I'm pretty sure that he would do all the good stuff if only nobody big and important would be miffed about it... if he could just bat his eyelashes and the world would just fall all over itself to automatically be good....

DICKLESS!

I'm really, really mad....

Agent 99- whew! thanks for the clarification. Much appreciated. okay, I was starting to add a bit more VG "ranting", but scrapped that. A relief to know we are on the same page.

Marty Kaplan @ Huffpo:

"...There's a direct line connecting the khaki-wearing "citizen" mob sent from Washington by the GOP to stop the 2000 recount in Florida, to the teabaggers dispatched by the corporate front group FreedomWorks to disrupt congressional town halls.

Whether at the beginning of the decade or its end, the loudmouths have the same goal.."

http://www.huffingtonpos.../mobs-r-us_b_250482.html

Disillusioned @ 19 wrote:
"...how do rational people combat such an irrational tactic?"

Simple. Ignore them.
Reason can not be transferred.

99: but if lying is proven to cause people to die needlessly, is that different?

In reality it is different, but in practice it is not different. They have legislated an almost seamlessly clear road for vampire capitalism, corporatism so powerful as to be hurtling toward frank fascism. So even if they forgot to clear something, left a loophole upon which to hold them liable, they will not be held liable.

In a fascist state, the elite are exempt from prosecution for any crime... even war crimes and treason and murder... while the general public can be prosecuted just about at whim, or on the flimsiest excuses... with no habeas corpus, no rights... slaves that can just fuck off and die if they don't like working and paying their brains out... including if they outright CAN'T.

I better go have a cigarette. Blood is spurting out my eyes and ears again.

Agent 99, I was typing my comment to you (#39) when you put up your comment #38. And, it's been a LONG while since I've made comments at BB, and been a while since I read. But, BB was my first blog discovery, and Brad knows (I hope) that in various ways, I've supported him.

But, I've lost important info about Brad's take on Obama, whenever he may have posted it.

I am from the "Camp Crawford Brad Show" era- well, even before that.

Hey, the g20 is comming to town. Anybody got a question for them? I'm thinking about a project to post them.

I was late to the game, busy being a Zen hermit, and HuffPo was my first blog discovery, right in its very first week. Eventually Brad came along, hollering about the stolen 2004 election, and I was so relieved and stoked that somebody out there was still sane that it brought me over here.

And, then, in my gratitude, like a TOTAL chump, I offered to help!

Ancient... I would ask them to take long walks off short piers... very diplomatically, of course... except a couple of them....

Hello home land security, posting peoples questions is all I'm planning to do...got it?

Agent 99- as I said, BB was the first blog I discovered, and that was b/c of the 2004 "election".

Discovered BB in 2004. Within a few days (I think a day) of the "official" results.

irrc that was before HuffPo was birthed, but that is simply my memory. In any event, I certainly wasn't paying attention to HuffPo at the time. (and not much now either).

Brad's coverage of this (the 2004 debacle), from the get go, was stellar. Oh, and, Kerry totally sucked when this post-election eve stuff started coming down, and thenceforth.

I can't remember if Brad actually made that comment. Maybe I was simply reading between the lines as to what Brad's opinion might be, based on his relentless pursuit of the election issues and bad actors (including the infamous "Mr. Blackwell)

Now Now 99, you can be more constructive than that. Serously, think about it...

VG, I think HuffPo started in May of 2005. I was staying with friends while awaiting major surgery and it was the first sustained access to the internet I'd had. HuffPo started out pretty darn good, but entirely too swiftly became very hard for me to bear, and so it was good Brad showed up with a post there that grabbed me.

Ancient... oh... okay, well, how about very diplomatically asking them to walk west until their hair floats?

You could ask Medvedev if I could come to Russia... or is Putin showing up this time? I lose track. Putin would take me back with him, for sure....

I mean, this post is about phony outrage. Pfeh. Bird droppings! I've got enough of the genuine article to light up the sky, and I think it might be inspiring to go out into the world and try to build a saner future where the government is not this badly broken, where the leaders are genuinely trying to bring about something positive.... And Bippy tells me Russian is a gorgeous language... which notion pleases me greatly because, even if my synapses are too stiff to learn to speak it, I could just very happily listen to it....

You could very diplomatically ask them how they sleep at night.

You could very diplomatically ask them to arrest all war criminals and abolish money....

I've got it!

ASK THEM TO ABOLISH NATO FOR ME!!!!!!

Very diplomatically ask them to abolish NATO. That's my question for sure.

Would you, kind sirs, and madams, please, pretty please, cut this NATO crap before 99 has to be carted off to the bin?

Where's a cop with a tazer when you need one?

Didn't tobacco companies get sued and lose millions, for misleading and withholding information and lying about the hazards of smoking?

So, tobacco companies were successfully sued for causing the deaths of people via purposely misleading them.

99 says "I better go have a cigarette."

:)

99 sucks (another ciggy) but what a lady ...I'll tell you a little story about a health system that cares ,cares I said. Its not perfect but it cares.
My Mother In-law died of smoking related illness 10 years ago.Lung cancer that progressed to a systemic cancer.She died in a hospice that gave 24-7 care by angels in human form.About 6 months from diagnosis to death. Want to know the total cost of the Chemo ,of the surgery, of the hospice care ...nothing ,zero, nadia ,not a single dollar.
I live in New Zealand and have a population of about 4,000,000 people...can somebody tell me why America can not match this or even better this health care ?
I think I know the answer ,a handful of people are using you for their betterment ,they don't care if you live or die .They only see you as "profit or lose". I have watched your Elections be stolen ,your country do pre-emptive war and all of your "freedoms" trod on but em-mass you espouse to be the "only super power" ...fuck how glad I am to live in a country that isn't a "super power" ,I can not remember how many years I've watched America decline ,I was a "Founding member" at Blackboxvoting.org .But "for the people, by the people" is over ,the experiment failed ...God help us all...Good night and good luck.

I heard about the right wingnuts town hall "strategy" on the Thom Hartman radio show yesterday (I highly recommend Thom Hartman if you're not aware of him)...great show...nevertheless
Disruptive sabotage of discussion and debate is an old but effective right wing intimidation tactic. I first noticed it used in 2000 and the Florida recount; the *Brooks Bros. riot*. The town hall disruption tactic and Brooks Bros. riot type shenanigans are so reminiscent of Nazi Germany it's eerie...I'm not exaggerating.

Our MSM has been totally bought up, bought out and put to sleep. The MSM are lapdogs to corporate right wing interests, and they air-publish-spew corporate right wing lies and propaganda with impunity. That's the only reason that a crazy clown like Michelle Malkin can have a seat at the table on ABC's This Week with George Stephanopoulos and be taken seriously...It was amusing to watch Cynthia Tucker glare at Malkin when she parroted right wing lies...George Stephanopoulus should be shot for not challenging Malkin's stupidity...Malkin was allowed to spew her filth unchallenged. This small but highly vocal right wing robot army has hijacked our country...

I'm joining Agent 99 for a cigarrette...I'm not giving up...I know the truth wins out...but right now I'm FED UP!

The MSM can kiss my black ass.

Flashback: Comcast acknowledges that it hired people to take up room at an F.C.C. hearing into its practices.

Astroturfing - Comcast Blocking: First the Internet — Now the Public

# Contracted line-holders stand for hours to ensure their clients get seats
# Seats at hearings often only chance for lobbyists to get face time with legislators
# Line-standers, some homeless, are paid anywhere from $11 to $35 an hour
# Critics see practice as another way lobbyists are buying influence on Capitol Hill

CNN: Homeless stand in for lobbyists on Capitol Hill

The health care insurance industry spent $130 million in the past quarter to preserve its multi-billion dollar profits --- profits for the select few at the expense of the health and very lives of the American people.

We are all aware of the degree to which corporate monies in the form of campaign contributions and lobbying, and limitation of corporate media coverage to corporate-sponsored candidates, has corrupted our political system. But this new tactic entails an effort to silence the people's voices at one of the oldest forms of democracy in these United States --- the town hall meeting. These staged wing-nut protests are, according to Keith Olbermann, being carried out by "a front group maintained by corporate funded Americans for Prosperity, now busing people all over the country to town halls." Their organized verbal assaults are being misrepresented in the right-wing echo chamber as reflective of how "we the people" truly feel --- this, despite polls showing that 2/3 of Americans favor a single-payer system.

One way to counter the echo chamber’s propaganda would be for people like Sibelius to ask all those in the audience at the town hall meeting who came out of a desire to bring meaningful change to a corrupt, dysfunctional and deadly for-profit health care system to first raise their hands. Then, with cameras rolling and 90% of the audience holding up their hands, to stand, face the wing-nuts and shout, in unison, “Leave! Leave!”

The other way to counter the valid criticism of the costly, hybrid "public option" legislation, is for the Obama administration and the Democratic leadership in Congress to abandon this pseudo-reform in favor of the only measure now before Congress that offers real reform --- H.R. 676 Medicare for All which would eliminate the unnecessary parasites --- private for-profit carriers & HMOs.

The health of our people is not a commodity!

Beyond that, the question remains as to whether we are still the United States of America, or whether we should now be known as the United Corporations of America. The choice is not right or left, but democracy or oligarchy.

The 2000 astroturf election recount "riots":

That demonstration, ABCNEWS has learned, was neither spontaneous nor local. It was an organized Republican Party protest, run by 75 party supporters out of a motor home headquarters in Miami.

http://web.archive.org/w...TION_protests001124.html

Ten Horrible Examples Of Astroturfing

Mick,

Nice to hear from someone else with the good stuff. Here in the Czech Republic they still don't fully grasp the angels at the hospice concept, but they'll soon be there. My wife's three years of repeated surgical procedures and rounds of chemotherapy did pretty much wreck my life, but at least my healthcare were minimal - about 50 dollars (per diem hospitalization charges) in total. The 60 or 70 bucks a month I spend (used to be 25 bucks a month when the bubble frenzy was in full bloom) covers full health, including eyes and teeth and psyche. It's utterly transparent: the only people who don't want a single-payer system are the scoundrels who have been, are, and hope to continue making a killing off of the misfortunes of the rest of us. It would be comical were it not so tragically a question of fucking life, death, and bankruptcy!!!

Oops! Of course I meant my out-of-pocket health care costs were minimal. Sorry about that...

And 99! e-mail me some time and I'll turn on my Skype thingie and recite some Pushkin and Lermontov poems for ya - you can see for yourself...

And my hair'a on fire that the traitors in the House and Senate are denying the rest of America the great deal that they and their families revel in - it's beyond belief that these "people" keep getting "re-elected"!!!!!

The example you provided, Big Dan, is an excellent one.

Voter News Service exit-polls proclaimed Al Gore the winner in Florida by a whopping 7.3% --- some 435,000 votes. This prompted some networks to announce a Gore victory, a decision abruptly reversed when John Ellis, Bush’s cousin, later that evening, announced over Fox News that George W. Bush had won. NBC seconded Fox’s call at the behest of GE CEO Jack Welch. Within minutes the other networks followed suit.

Upon its acceptance across the spectrum of the corporate media, it mattered not that the initial pronouncement came from Bush’s cousin over the airwaves of America’s most ideological network or that the scientific evidence to support the pronouncement was sorely lacking. Bush won. We know that because the corporate media said he won.

Operating at a perceptual disadvantage from the outset, the Gore legal team did not help its cause by focusing on punch cards in Miami-Dade when the real story lay in Florida’s patchwork quilt of disparate voting systems and in voter suppression.

Miami-Dade used a hand-held stylus. Fail to apply sufficient pressure and the ballot is left with a dimpled or a hanging chad that interferes with the machine counting, but which does not prevent a tedious, ballot-by-ballot examination, like the court-ordered one which had been underway when staffers from the offices of Republican Congressmen Tom DeLay and Tom Sweeney, along with the future U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations, John Bolton, staged what to most Americans appeared to be a spontaneous protest but was actually a carefully orchestrated, Nazi brown-shirt like riot. The count stopped, never to start again.

The Gore team not only failed to recognize that the evidence of Republican electoral theft lay in the technological manipulations of electronic DREs and optical scanners. Gore failed to appreciate the duplicity of the corporate-owned media or its ability to manipulate perception through image. The televised image of Miami-Dade Canvassing Board officials squinting, staring at dimples and hanging chads, suggested an exercise in futility. Gore was not simply a sore loser; he was the Caine Mutiny’s Commander Queeg ordering a search for the missing strawberries.

The image of clean-cut men in starched white shirts and ties, by itself, did nothing to suggest that the “Brooks-Brothers riot” was merely a calculated event carried out by Republican ideologues. To the contrary, it conveyed the image of otherwise law-abiding citizens whose anger had been aroused by an illegitimate effort by the Gore team to steal the election.

BlueHawk, there's another method to keep the people down. It's the opposite of the "fake grassroots crowd" raising hell.

It's where the officials start accusing people in their presence of being x,y,z where x = disruptive, y = threatening, and z = violent.

It's all pure crap, but it give them an excuse to use local law enforcement against the public, end the discussion and clear the room.

And to the guy who said "it's beyond belief they keep getting re-elected" It isn't beyond belief it's physics and science is how they get re-elected. physics where electronic signals can have no public oversight. and science where the corporate media can eliminate candidates or steer issues to where the average busy human has no time or will to research and counter the propaganda.

America is broken. And it's going to get much worse now, the liars in the fed and the oath breaker enablers in the Senate have guaranteed we will be seeing some pretty bad shit pretty soon. As soon as the boyz stop reach the end of their rope and their book cooking lies can't be hidden anymore. Already the math is fucked. Anyone with a 6th grade math skill set can see the shit does not add up. I expect the forthcoming bond market collapse may finally wake the masses up to the corruption running our country.

And yeah I already don't like Obama. Everyone whined about how he was only in for less that 100 days, well he's not straightening out our constitution, the spying, the torture, the wars, the looting of our country.

You want to get these fuckers out of our government the only way I see it is to get the electronic voting machines out of our elections and have 100% public oversight until the election is made official. This means no mail in voting, no electronics, no corporate media allowed to steer issues.

Otherwise I really don't see much of America except more death, destruction, mayhem, corruption, media propaganda, Oath Breakers, basically hell on Earth.

So screw it. Let's let the fucking thing crash, instead of fighting against each other. Really a full fall off the cliff of bullshit, is the only way we can restore the constitution at this point.

I am sure some well armed cops and veterans would disagree with me, but they need to step back from their meds, and ask themselves why the fuck they allowed the media to do what it does now, where they were when the electronics infiltrated the election process, and lastly what part of protecting the constitution against all enemies they didn't get. A simple compare of where the Constitution was --- oh lets say 10 years ago compared to where it is currently. They screwed the pooch is what happened.

It should have been challenged to the death when the first fucker said they were going to shread it.

So as you sow, so shall you reap.
(to steal back from a bible expression)

My advice is have some extra food water, and sit back and watch as the whole thing goes to shit.

I hope I am wrong, but I doubt I am.

a clue for the uninitiated.
The sheriff of Nottingham runs the USA!

The reality.
We are not a constitutional republic anymore.

But hey I am just a "conspiracy blogger" what the fuck do I know?

COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
... Disillusioned said I think the real question is, how do rational people combat such an irrational tactic?"

Someone offered "ignore them" and Ernest Canning offered up united counter action.
-----
I'm with counter action. These people are thugs, they are there to bully people out of their ability to rationally discuss the matter and should be treated just like bullies. They need to be smacked down early and loudly. If you don't, it will end up being a game played on their court and they will win.

If the 'birther' idiots had been met with loud and aggressive resistance immediately the debate on that would have ended long ago.

I suggest local pro-universal health-care groups to go to the meetings and just shout the disruptor's down with things like 'bully" 'whore' etc. Then go to any meeting by a Republican or Blue Dog and as a group use either the same tactics or other very aggressive tactics (verbal) to shut down the Republican Representative's propaganda session.

Can't the Dems and the pro-universal health care people get it together enough to rent a bus and cart some folks around like the knuckle dragging insurance company whores do? Srsly.

COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
... lottakatz said on 8/4/2009 @ 11:24 am PT...

If you yell at their meetings. What's the point? trying to get yourself humiliated? Or worse arrested (as I described above)?

I also notice you got this D vs. R thing going on. Uh, in case you didn't notice they are both bad. And therefore they both got to go.

I haven't had health care for 30 years. (rounded)
I have chronic pain.
pot is not legalized for easing that pain. So I guess I have turned outlaw.

What's the point anymore?
The system is fascist and broken.
Let's give them everything they want.
GIVE EVERYTHING
Just as it all sails over the cliff.

A variation on the “Raise your hands” would be for the host speaker to first welcome everyone to a “productive exchange of information and views“, and then “But before we begin, I’d like to recognize a group of individuals here representing the corporate health industry who are present for an entirely different reason- would YOU all please raise your hands so we can see who you are?”
(No one responds.) “Well, no matter, we’ll all be able to immediately recognize who you are when you begin to interrupt, shout, disrupt and otherwise deprive the rest of the intelligent discussion that they came for. Alternatively, you can just peacefully leave now, with our respect for your honesty and integrity in doing so”

Lou, that would be arrogance? yes?

In other words the system is never wrong, change the game and act on politics.

We already can't protest. What do you think those orange fences are for? It would be better to not even be there at all. That kind of tactic flys both ways. You want healthcare like Canada? Not going to happen at a meeting with insurance corporations.

The politics of discent will eliminate all freedom.

We already suffer, let them have their toys, give them a few more toys --- close to the edge of the cliff, in their joy they will simply make a mistake and fall off.

Then we can be done with that drama.

Who knows what these people think anymore? You speak up to question an official and you end up tazered and in a jail cell. That's the arrogance I am talking about. While your right about your cause, it's irrelevant in the world of fascism.

I say we open our hearts and give them everything they desire. You want our food, fine eat, be merry and weigh 750 pounds, I hope you have a heart attack.

I hate. and I mean HATE officials who go around with that arrogant attitude, that some person from the unwashed masses isn't more coherant then they are, that what the unwashed masses say isn't as important at their standard operating procedure and policy. Even when you tell them their policy is allowing terrorists to pick our officials in our elections --- they still have you removed.

I say fine.

We are done.

Are Halliburton and KBR and Blackwater still running the show? Follow the money. BTW, I want my fucking money back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Why, Bippy, darling, that would be scrumptious! I'll email you my Skype number with all dispatch. I am, however, rotting at my friends' house down in Berkeley right now, waiting for car repairs and a cosmic shift, so we better wait till I get back to my distant hermitage....

Mustn't scare the NSA and bring down the black SUVs here....

Mick

Sorry to hear about your mother in law but am glad of the care she got from hospice. My own mother died very recently and also recieved some care from the Hospice. Their facilities and care are unsurpassed.
I think the entire world may be at risk with a push for a global currency in which case we will loose even more of our soverenty to the people who control the international monetary system. Those people have the US millitary at their disposal so it may be very difficult for anyone to oppose. Sorry to say Mick that this may not just affect the US in the slightly longer term.
We must all fight now if its possible and it probably isn't. My own health and circumstances are not in a good state or I'd be doing much more.

Bloody Wingnuts

They have advised our NZ national party in past elections and I'm sure did at the last election.
The media spin machine, the moneyd elite and the polling companies were in full throttle here in NZ during our last election. Pollsters never mentioned or researched the undecideds much who amounted to about 10% of voters. They presumed that those voters were an even mix of right and left wing voters which migh have been correct. I did a bit of research and found a poll that questioned the undecideds on a taxation issue and they sided heavily ( 98% ) with the far left of the spectrum. Had that 10% of voters been tossing up between NZ Labour, the Green Party or the Maori Party then we could have had a left wing alliance here in NZ if they had voted. However the media and polling companies kept ignoring that 10% as unimportant or unfathomable. The end result was that we had the lowest election turnout in many years and the right wing party won. The question remains "Did left wing voters not turn out because the polls predicted an overwhelming National Party victory"
If that 10 percent had been mostly left wing voters and had voted we would have had a completely different outcome here. In NZ the Nats get electerd when there are poor election turnouts. The right wing National Party know this and I suspect our polling companies assited them to victory buy leaving out important information, making a left wing alliance seem impossible to keep left wing voters away from the polls. I
may be wrong here but without analysis of the undecided voters we will never know.

valley girl,
i have heard obama say that if he was starting from scratch,single payer would be the way to go but since so many peops are happy with their employer insurance that creating a public option would help keep insurance companies "honest"

as to what a public option would look like perhaps those of us that have too high an income for medicaid could simply pay into it on a sliding scale..that is basically how kid care is handled in illinois...my grandson has good insurance for $15 per month thru the state

the thing i worry about with the goverment getting involved in healthcare is that they will use our own medical records against us(in illinois if you have cancer and u test positive for mj they will with hold chemo if u have medicaid)

if obama doesnt get this done before the 2010 elections,it wont get done..even tho the public is fed up with the neo con crowd,they still own the machines and even worse the neo cons own the soe reporting programs(bbv/s middleman articles) so dems are gonna lose seats and possibley a few govenorships(imagine illinois going red)

i am personally angery with our new president about a number of issues(illegal wiretapping,lack of justice in the justice department,refusal to prosecute cheney,bush,rove)but so far his handling of the healthcare debate has been what he promised on the campaign trail(as i see it)

Stumbled onto this website. Do y'all read your commments? Seems like I stumbled on the wingnuts right here.

Memphis mom,

What comments in particular are wingnutty?

The comments that Obama is mr status quo, continuing illegal wiretapping, continuing to hold prisoners indefinitely without charge, to refuse to push for a single payer solution, to support corporate interests over those of the people?

How about the fact that republican operatives actually did fabricate phony protests in the Florida recount debaucle? (well documented see reference).

Reference: http://politicalhumor.ab...rary/blfloridagopmob.htm

How about that the current town-hall shennanigans have exactly the same demeanor as the FL 2000 recount phony protests?

Which one of those is wingnuttery? Can you be more specific?

Memphis Mom is astroturfing.

I don't believe people who have no interest in the topics of a blog such as this..."stumble upon it"...and then comment.

If I "stumble upon" some whacky rightwing blog, first of all...I don't go on it. Second of all, I CERTAINLY don't throw in a comment.

A kindly old mother from Memphis stopped by a blog she has no interest in and called the people there "whackos", how believable!

"Y'all" come back now!

Phil #70, 72, 73,

Never surrender.

Yes, Danny, it was really much better when it was all formalized with muskets and everything....

Cyber-guerillas are somehow creepier and more deadly.

It was good to hear Olbermann last night, right out there talking about fake grass roots movements. I haven't heard that on my television before. I don't just think these groups are infuriating, I think they have been instrumental in doing all the damage we've seen over the last 35 years.

There are SO many of them:

American Enterprise Institute
Heritage Foundation
Club For Growth
Americans For Tax Reform
The Christian Coalition
The Moral Majority
Family Research Council

On and on and on! There are also local fake groups too. Until yesterday, these groups have not been exposed at all, and if fact show up all the time on C-Span without explanation as to what they're up to.

There is a need to get this out there. A real grass roots movement should have honorable goals that don't involve getting rich.

I better stay away from these town hall meetings because if one of these damned tea-baggers starts yelling in my ear that he doesn't want health care for the express purpose of shutting down a conversation, I'm going to yell him down until be both get thrown out. The bad thing is that the media will take his side, even knowing what is going on.

One of my Good Old Boy Bubba friends just emailed me this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hFiab7fjak

Jaw-dropping stuff. I couldn't figure out whether to laugh or cry. It seems to me this Manning character may be getting even with the bubbas by pumping them full of this shit. That's who suffers the most from Republican administrations... but... really... they really are going to suffer as much with this one... and so he seems almost to be getting at a portion of truth through a barrage of bald-faced and crazy-assed lies.

Creepy.

We're not in Kansas anymore....

Operation Chaos 2.0 courtesey of Rush Limbuagh?

http://www.google.com/se...augh&sa=N&tab=bw

Lou Bruhn's comment #71 about an alternative counter action would be superior to the one I proposed, comment #59, if we were dealing with rational people, but the corporate sponsored wing nuts would not wait long enough for the speaker to put that method in play.

Of course, the alternative to either of our group actions would be to erect a set of rules of decorum for town hall meetings, provide warnings and ask the police to cuff & frog march those who insist on engaging in disorderly conduct after being given fair warning.

Oops, I've just made the silly assumption that our government would apply the law to corporate America.

84, Lottakatz

Technically it's a strategy.
NOT a surrender.

I am thinking bigger.
Like restoring the Constitution bigger.

So if everything comes crashing down cause these fascists are given everything they want and drive it all off the cliff. The end result is the fascists go off the cliff and we can all start fresh.

Having 65 Trillion stolen dollars in a backpack isn't going to help the theif swim across a river, or run from an angry mob, but it will ultimately bring an end to theft.

If officials want to live in a bubble away from the unwashed masses, then let's make damn sure the bubble is completely air-tight, so when it's finally screwed up, they carry the can, or bubble fate if you will.

Technically the surender has already happened, as we have been tricked (by Corporate media and government corruption) into allowing the Constitution to be shreaded (because terrorism will never stop), and we allow our officials to operate outside of the rule of law (in a war which will never end.)

Questions like what (Can a Citizen, or Active Duty Military) do to stop an oath of office breaker are not ever going to be clarified to the public, law enforcement or the military by the same people who are breaking their oaths on a daily basis.

Wouldn't it be funny if the next group of military recruits when raising their hand for the oath, stopped and asked, what do we do if we find someone who has attacked our constitution? Probably not funny, because there is no answer!
I been asking this question for several years now.

And if they are answered it will be where the citizen, law enforcement or military will have made some mistake or be powerless and without a toolset to take action. Absolute authority is not going to accept the fact they themselves are corrupt, instead you will be the one who is corrupt, I will, etc. They can't maintain absolute authority, if they follow the rule of law to hold them accountable. In essence they are never wrong, We are.

Which is also why our elections have been compromised from every possible angle they can get into. Invisible Electronics, no oversight, registration deletion, Corporate Media issue/candidate steering, etc. They will do anything to protect this power base from being subjected to the rule of law. Which is why they just change the law to justify their authority.

Ultimately, if you press officials too hard they can make you can disappear forever under some fucking patriot act/terrorism law.

So what part of the constitution is that in?
What part is adding a fios splitter?

This is nuts, and it's just like The sheriff of Nottingham, only our little towns are big cities and the taxes are going to the fascist banksters who don't have to take any oath.

Fighting directly isn't working. Since 2004 most of us here have fought to get rid of these machines, so what has the results been? Have we made it better?

Forced Mail In Voting = FAIL (no oversight)
Electronic Tabulation Devices = FAIL (no oversight)
Public Oversight = FAIL (blocked by untrained cops, instead of supported by local cops)
COURT BATTLES = FAIL (timing as a weapon, irrelevence at judgement time)
Legislation = FAIL (bad legislation, over and over)
internet voting = FAIL (the brave new world)
auditing = FAIL (After years of battle over getting some kind of evidence that election fraud has happened, instead we showed everything was crackable, penetrated, abused and yet here we are still using the same unauditable electronic devices with the same flaws)
Corporate Media = FAIL (blacklisted discussion, while showing how smooth everything is.)

We are arguing against ourselves.
We are already divided.
We are good people, who live under a failed government on the brink of monetary destruction.
Corporate Media has turned our minds to mush. There are so many mental mind fuck contradictions now, it would be a simple matter to declare someone suffering from PTSD. Except we don't have insane people officially (sic) --- more to do with not taking responsibility--and monetary reasons.

If you try to fight this system, depending on how far you go, you are going to suffer, be humiliated, or die.

I can argue and argue and type these blog messages over and over and it doesn't mean a damn thing, nothing will change until corrupt officials and banksters die of old age.

We should smile, give them what they want, and help them expedite it to their dungen.

We are not far from a bond collapse. (No longer is it *IF*, it's *WHEN*) The electric bill won't get paid and it will be time to oust these corrupt officials, as we will no longer have a choice as their malfeasance has run it's course and gone too far.

My prediction

If there is another unknown, uninvestigated "terrorist attack" at or around the same time the bond market collapses it won't be a coincidence, it will be a false flag distraction. Just like the anthrax letters were.

Boy they sure investigated that well.

Excellence in Leadership

(Corrupt Leadership)

"Of course, the alternative to either of our group actions would be to erect a set of rules of decorum for town hall meetings, provide warnings and ask the police to cuff & frog march those who insist on engaging in disorderly conduct after being given fair warning."

We have this activity now with no warning.

Look at the people sitting next to you closer, next time. They smirk when someone get's frog marched out. What is behind that smirk if not arrogance of position and the complete surrender to absolute authority.

We don't need a law to make this worse, we need a law to actually give floor time to the one speaking out! If they are a phony outrage choreograph, they will be exposed. And either way, we get to hear all opinions, instead of the corporate broadcast time schedule which everyone has come to love.

Some issues take more than three to five fucking minutes to discuss. Some issues need to take months or years to discuss. But that doesn't fit neatly into the corporate fascist time agenda.

TIME, AND TIMING IS A WEAPON!

If the FCC Chair had any balls or bothered to follow their original mission statement. The corporate media would be FORCED to air all debates hearing all sides until the conclusion and resolution of matters.

Interrupting ALL programming content until the situation is finished. Like the emergency weather alert system.

But the FCC is broken too. FASCISM.

Which brings me to yet another point.

I hope everyone is enjoying the new DTV system, nice dropouts on audio durring the most critical of discussions and the sweet 20db Audio Boost durring commercials. It's like the engineers have removed the audio normalization button.

I know, I have crap equipment right? Or do I?

Are cameras or picture taking phones allowed at town hall meetings? Would taking a picture of a disrupter be allowed? Would the disrupter perhaps cause a real disturbance if their picture was taken? Could that be cause for their escort out of the meeting? Isn't their public display of wingnuttery actually to our advantage? As in, now we KNOW who YOU are? I'm trying to make lemonade from wingnut lemons here.
Watch Alabama closely as Birmingham suffers huge financial problems. Some people are already asking for the National Guard to get involved to replace laid off police. Posse Comatatus anyone? Could there be some tie between Birminghams problems and former Governor Siegelman's prosecution? Just as Alabama was at the center of the civil rights movement, this time it could be at the center of the bankrupt city movement and the official government reactions to same.

While people like these are distracting America, the greedy rich are looting this country.
Sorry for calling them people.

"Corporate Dupes in Action"
Why are these Right Wing anti Health Care mobsters not wearing brown shirts? That's exactly how these fascists are acting, a playbook straight out of the 1930's. And this latest batch of Pavlov's dopes seem to be eating this crap up hook line and sinker. Well I devoted my latest cartoon to these "Corporate Dupes" It's my latest Left of Center Political Cartoon, up at my website now,
www.whatnowtoons.com.

I'm one of those mob nuts. I'm protesting because I'm pissed at seig heil obama and all his acorn friends. When dodd and killer kennedy get the same care we do then will talk,until then BO and his corrupted court can kiss my butt. Thank You

Off Topic Alert...
Has anyone read the following ...
******** September 11th, 2008–America’s Economic 9/11? ********

[ed note: Mick, I researched the living snot out of this months ago. It's wrong. Wrong dates. I swear it. Totally NOT an economic 9/11. It is an economic disaster that is killing way more people than 9/11, but it did NOT, I repeat, NOT come down on 9/11/08. The hearing just before it all tumbled was on 9/18/08. For certain. --99]

jackjc you musta had a very busy 8 years protest GWB's "corrupted court"...take a breathe,relax

p.s. "acorn friends" ???"Brooks Brothers riot"???

How come the Dems have affiliated groups like ACORN protesting but nothing is said about their organization. Maybe it's the Dems trying to squelch what real Americans are voicing - that they don't want the govt taking away their choices. You all should look deeper because you haven't discovered the truth yet.

Note to Tea Baggers;

You'll notice a lot of white hair in the photos of the screaming mob. They want to keep the health insurance they have. Guess what, it's called medicare. It's NATIONAL GOVERNMENT RUN HEALTHCARE. My parents love it. The private health care they had before was the result of hard bargaining by my mother's teacher's union. Yet they are in the front lines of the "Tea Baggers" and these events, because they've been told to believe "Obama Care" means health care will be rationed and old people will be left to die. And they will have to sign over their social security (which their boys tried to take away) to get it.

Although the legislators are now in recess and have a month to look this over and make improvements (write your representatives NOW) They keep screaming "They gave it to the legislators with only one night to read it and said they had to pass it!" Unlike the Patriot Act, this has not happened, but they keep repeating this. It is insane. They spit 'socialism!!' every chance they get.

Most of my friends are self-employed entrepreneurs. Small business people. And they would like to see some relief. I personally pay almost $7,000 a year in premiums, my employer pays the other half. Cancer is not covered, a lot is not covered. The deductibles for my family add up to another $3,000+ so if we get sick we are looking at a minimum of $10,000 not including co-pays, not allowed charges etc.

One of my self-employed friends is paying $19,000/year in premiums alone. I challenge every one of the 'protestors' to give up their medicare, their military medical or their corporate plan and pay out of pocket what my friend and I pay. We have no choice. My employer offered 3 choices; Sucks, Really sucks and you're not going to get much of anything covered, but you'll still have a job. My daughter has now aged out of my plan and we can not afford to cover her and she can not afford to cover herself.

Hip hip hooray for privately run health insurance!

I can't answer questions about the specifics in the legislation suggested. I am very disturbed by the change in rhetoric from health care reform to health insurance reform. If these idiots would listen instead of making it impossible for the legislators to explain what is being considered, they might discover how many of us are really on the same page.

"...phony outrage..."

Lie. And you know it's a lie. Somebody finds a "how to" memo somewhere, and you suddenly think this is all fake? Well, you're wrong, just like you always are.

We will continue to speak out against this disgraceful, disgusting, disastrous "reform". And left-wingers can't lecture a single human being about civility. (World Can't Wait, Code Pink, ANSWER, etc. 'Nuff said.)

I think most of you are blowing smoke up each other's asses. Most of the people pissed about the current health care takeover and naziism were concerned about Bush's bullshit and are 9-111 doubters.
Meet the new boss ..same as the old boss...
What can you geniuses tell me about the plan of this government to request that poeple have "end of life counseling" when they turn 60?
Look it up assholes.

[ed note: Comment deleted. Bernie, please read our rules for commenting. Just because you're sorry to be so insulting, you don't need to go right on ahead and personally attack other commenters. I know you can say all this again without attacking others personally, without calling someone "sick, poor and stupid". Thank you. --99]

Damiel,

You've got to be kidding! Comparing protests against a corrupt, illegal war vs protests against health care for regular people? There is no comparison. I didn't need a memo to tell me that the war is corrupt. They (you?) definitely needed a memo to convince you to fight against your own interests. You hear these people saying stuff like, "keep government out of my Medicare!" That's ignorance, no? And it's ignorance fomented by those who would profit the most from that ignorance. Nobody makes money on stopping the war- on the contrary- right? Nobody has a stake in my success in my fight to stop the war, get good health care for all, have an economy that works for everyone etc. Nobody- except for all of the people in this great country. Including you. You just go ahead and keep shooting yourself in the foot. I'll watch.

Wait a minute, we've got two meanings to this headline.

1. Hired GOP Wingnuts are traind to disrupt Town Hall Meets.

2. Anyone who is upset about the Health Bill and expresses it, is considered disruptive AND, therefore, a GOP thug.

See what I mean?
-----------------------------------------

This country is broke. We, The People, have lost our inalienable rights. Socialism seems like a wise choice when we're facing a future with no health care at all..maybe for most Americans.

HOWEVER, when you have no Constitutional Rights to protect community, yourself and your family, Socialism becomes something else, entirely.

If we had our US Constitution intact, as well as a Congress we could trust to defend the Republic(aka inalienable rights)...no matter what the Democratic(majority rule) Congress votes on, then The People could trust this sort of policy making to be fair.

We are all concerned with what is best for the disadvantaged, disabled, elderly and those facing destitution due to our economy being in such peril. If you READ THE HEALTH CARE BILL, you'll find there is much ABOUT YOU in it. Enough to really make your hair stand on end - and you'll have plenty of questions you'll want to confront your Congressman about. But being a Left-Winger, like me, you might feel uncomfortable about that. After all, we wouldn't want to be stereotyped as a GOP informant if we feel upset and express that..we wouldn't want to look like we actually have something in common with Republicans, either.

Folks...I come from a VERY LeftWing upbringing and ancestry. I have opened my eyes to a new insight about 'mass manipulation' of the 'Left vs Right' paradigm. I have seen how this polarity is used against us, making damn sure we NEVER see eye to eye, as fellow Americans. As long as we fight each other for the crumbs, we'll never see the truth(which is making its getaway in a Brinks Security Truck)

Sing it, OK!

Except... you mean "fascism" NOT "socialism" but I get your point.