And we wonder, we WONDER, why election officials are fighting the "count at the precincts" concept? This is the EXACT reason why we MUST have hand-counting in every precinct before the ballots are released to be transported to the Land of Oz- central tabulator.

Now of course, such vote manipulation could NEVER happen here in the U.S. because our citizens believe in the absolute integrity of the U.S.electoral system. Yet they rate politicians, who would gain from such manipulation, lower than used car salesmen. So go figure! Until people TRULY become convinced that vote manipulation is not only possible, but has been going on on a HUGE scale for the last decade, the vote stealing, disenfranchisement, and punishing of the voters will continue. Kinda like the phrase, "the beatings will continue until morale improves."

So the bad guys, knowing now that they can get away with it with impunity, will never ever stop unless the EI community can grow our concerns to the level where people will stand up and say "I'm not going to take it anymore" and demand prosecution of these crooks who are bleeding us dry and foisting unbearable burdens on our children, all in the name of "democracy"!

Please guys, as someone that just came back from Pakistan let me suggest that you just can't do these simple comparisions between how we vote in the US with other nations. It just doesn't work that way.

I keep telling everyone that you can FORGET about the US being an entirely hand counted at the precinct nation--ain't gonna happen. Not this year, not in 10 years. You may love it and think it is the best way to go, but it won't happen (if you want to lay money on it let me know).

By the way, it's interesting to note that even Bhutan used electronic voting last week! There is GREAT interest in using electronic voting in other places in the world.
And while we are on the subject; if you look at the MOST rigged and corrupt elections in the world--what system do they use? Hand counted paper ballots--period!!
C. Wilson
Penvote.com
and editor: votingindustry.com

Chris,

Thank you for indicating your position as editor of Votingindustry.com. No offense, but I would EXPECT you to say that all-paper-ballots (APB) will never happen again in the U.S. Howerver, your "industry" HAS to take that position, or you will all be out of business.

And regarding the "most corrupt/rigged" elections in the world being done on paper, that's easy when it is a pseudo democracy. You just announce whatever result you want and deny the right to review or recount. So far, except for Florida (I think), recounts ARE still allowed in the U.S., and having paper ballots to recount makes it more difficult to rig, since there are tangible ballots to work with.

Chris - I echo LeftIsBest's thanks for disclosing your potential conflicts of interests in your post. Wish all of the other folks who had a financial statke in e-voting did the same when they commented here.

That said, please note, that my article does NOT refer to hand-counting. It refers only to precinct-based counting. Of any type. While I realized LeftIsBest referred to it, I did not. And the conflation between precinct-based counting and hand-counting is a very dangerous one given the substance of the original article above.

As to this comment of yours:

There is GREAT interest in using electronic voting in other places in the world.

Yes, there is also GREAT interest across the world in watching Christian v. Lion contests, and having sex with children. That GREAT interest is no measure of whether it's the right thing to do or not, as I'm sure you'd admit.

As you'll recall, surveys showed that voters really enjoyed using unaccountable DRE (touch-screen) voting machines also. I bet they prefer tem even more if you added Pac-Man to them, and gave each voter $50 to boot! Doesn't have anything to do with whether they should be used in a democracy or not.

Finally, you also said this:

And while we are on the subject; if you look at the MOST rigged and corrupt elections in the world--what system do they use? Hand counted paper ballots--period!!

Really? How do you know that they are rigged?

(pause...pause...pause...to let you think...)

Exactly.

I love this conversation. And I, for three, would LOVE to see on-site hand counts of the vote.

After going to the '04 Ohio recount to help monitor, I realized how invisible manipulations can be: the shenanigans of Tri Star going around to the voting officials, having to do a recount at holiday time, offering to supply them with the tally they'd need to avoid a hand count was the most overt tampering evidence... but right up there too were the completely blank ballots (how does a voter do that?) and ones that showed no choice at all for president (who makes the trip in the snow to vote for everything but?). So?

Give me a way around machinery and 'in the dark'.tallies. If it means 'by hand', I'll wait a while to see the results.

Kenyans need to start sowing seeds of servant leadership in our children, our heritage, reward and prosperity. Kenya and indeed the world is today looking for servant leadership which is in short supply. At this time of great need in Kenya, any wisdom whether from any religion or philosophers which can help shed some light to the whole Kenyan dilemma must be brought forward.It will be very frustrating and irritating when everything has finally settled, for books upon books to be written on how the problem could have been solved.Most of the great people of all ages had been credited for exhibiting elements of servant leadership. Jesus Christ for example we are taught, "Let this mind be in you that was in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation&took upon himself the form of a servant,being made in human likeness. And being found in appearance as a man,he humbled himself &became obedient to death— even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place&gave him the name that is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed—not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence—continue to work out your salvation with fear&trembling, for it is God who works in you to will&to act according to his good purpose.Do everything without complaining or arguing, so that you may become blameless&pure, children of God without fault in a crooked&depraved generation, in which you shine like stars in the universe" Philippians 2:7-15.
Servant leadership is being considered as one of the best form of leadership for the 21 st century and beyond. Kenyan stand to greatly benefit if we start cultivating servant leadership in our sons&daughters at an early age. The forms of leadership includes Autocratic leadership,Bureaucratic leadership,Charismatic leadership,Democratic leadership or Participative leadership,Laissez-faire leadership,People-oriented leadership or Relations-Oriented leadership,Servant leadership,Task-oriented leadership,Transactional leadership&Transformational leadership
The elements of servant leadership includes love, devotion, sacrifice, listening,determination, empathy,respect,knowledge (lack of ignorance) healing, faith,awareness,hope, persuasion,forgiveness, selflessness, conceptualization, hard work, foresight,planning, accountability, stewardship,vision, fear of God, commitment to the growth of others,unity, promotion of peace, humility, building community, serving others&community.Even as we seek to promote truth peace , justice&a fair society, let us not use all energy on past.Focus on present&future. Shalom