democracy at risk?

More like democracy turned to ashes already.

When you think electronics, forget integrity, think lack of validation.
YOU CAN NOT VALIDATE ELECTRONIC SIGNALS!

Hell a component could burn up, totally changing the logic--forget the software!

A EM pulse, a Solar Flare could change the vote!

And who is to say that components (IC's, ASIC's and other logic chips) aren't "specially crafted" to blow on queue via a plethora of methods.

I ain't no security expert, hell I Have enough trouble trying to lock down websites. But I know enough to be dangerous.

You think those god damn electronic black boxes are safe?! Give me two seconds and a screwdriver.

George Orwell knew.

The LOCAL SECRETARY OF STATES should prove to us the results.

Not us trying to get Spectrum Analysers, Time Domain Reflectomoters, Meters, Logic Probes, Logic counters, Software audits, Freq counters, bla bla bla bla bla, Non Disclosure Agreements. F. all this.

IT IS COSTING TOO MUCH!

LOOK AROUND DAMN IT!

YOUR CHILDRENS CHILDREN ARE GOING TO PAY!

Our next election MUST HAVE!

No Electricity
No Electronics
No Digital Data
No Networks
No TELEPHONES
No Radios

Pull the plugs, remove the batteries, cut the mains,

Our motto should be "Cut The Crap"

One more..

ALL ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES ARE VULNERABLE.

"Paper trails" are the same as "LSD trails."

If you need a freaking paper trail, then why did you introduce electricity, and electronics in the FIRST PLACE?! hmm?

I am angry, I hope I sound angry. You have no idea how much this pisses me off. I only learned about this in 2004. I wasn't paying attention.

Think about Grand ma and Grand Pa who have no technical, physics, electronics, programming background. This abusive technology is specially crafted to DECEIVE THEM! AND CONTROL THEM!

You could write them a letter on paper with a pen though and they could understand that.

Love your families, there may not be much time left with these evil F-ing terrorists in charge of the United States!!!

I hate them all right now.

HAND COUNTED PAPER BALLOTS
When done properly it is relatively fast and accurate and most of all difficult to f*ck with.

-- Chris Hooten

NPR never fails to disappoint. Did anyone hear Talk of the Nation Wednesday when they had 'congressman' Brian Bilbray? Host Neil Conan congratulated him, saying that he had won. Nothing unusual here, folks! I just about lost my lunch. I felt even more like I was living in Bizzaro World...

Chris Hooten: Especially with multiple party oversight.

Thank my gods gods there are people like you.

I wonder if this subject (WAKING UP THE SHEEPLE to election fraud) isn't the real reason Frist is mad at CNN, I was so relieved that they nailed that sucker down yesterday, as weak as it was
The best part was he had no clothes, and everyone could see that

Terrific MSM coverage! Think about this: how long before the next daring step (a small one) is taken, which is to ask whether some elections have already been stolen by hacking? And then another small step, asking whether Georege W Bush was really elected in 2004!

Thank you Lou. You and whoever is letting you speak are the best.
I will be keeping copies of your broadcasts lest any politicians in my country try to introduce these machines.
Lou if you are reading this it may help to cover the story of what the Irish did with these machines. They (the government)bought enough for the entire country but the people wouldn't use them. Cost them lots of money but were never used. The Irish public demanded paper ballots. They got them. Money went down the drain but public confidence was maintained. They all lived happily ever after

Come on, Phil. If you don't calm down we're going to have to give you a time-out. I hope you are legit. But you sound a little goof-assy, whatever that means. Thanx for tha props, tho.

-- Chris Hooten

Congratulations y'all, we've succeeded in waking up the masses - or a good many of them, anyway. The work's not over yet, but we're another step closer to the resurrection of democracy in this country!

I bet Karl Rove had smoke coming out of his ears when he heard about mainstream media coverage of this!

For Unirealist: Proving that the 2004 election was stolen isn't only vital in terms of justice and the historical record, it's necessary to assure that 2006 and 2008 won't be stolen as well.

Lou Dobbs is doing an excellent job of showing that any election COULD BE STOLEN. Proving that 2004 WAS STOLEN requires much more. As long as the Democratic party and its go-along-to-get-along leaders refuse to endorse RFK, Jr.'s article, it won't be possible in time for 2006 unless we get lucky and a "Deep Throat" character comes forward to spill the beans. Since anyone with direct knowledge of massive fraud would be subject to a long jail term, that isn't likely.

Kerry said he had no problem with the validity of RFK's article. Dodd called it "compelling." But what's the lead story from Capitol Hill? Flag burning! Dredd's going to hate me for saying this, but every Democrat running for office in 2006 has to be told in plain terms, "Not one vote, and not one dollar of campaign support, until you call for a full investigation of the 2004 election by Congress."

Time me out then. If your a moderator.

If your not then step aside and let folks that KNOW, propigTELL IT LIKE IT REALLY IS,.

Otherwise. Why should I calm down?
Every Second they are controling things they are turning our country into switch grass.
(Where they switch the vote and make grass illegal)

I won't give props anymore.
Just Do what I say and to hell with thanks!
If you don't listen, then YOU ARE LOST. Not me.
I was trying to be polite.

I could take a voting machine out in LESS THAN ONE SECOND. If you give me legal access to it.

EXPOSE IT, LOU, EXPOSE IT!!! The MSM should've exposed this 5 years ago. Then, revisit the exit polls saying Kerry won by 5 million popular votes, and the 'ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES' saying Bush won by 3 million...8 MILLION VOTE SWING! When it happened in the Ukraine, they had a re-vote!!! We didn't have a re-vote, because of the MSM not reporting on this, and calling us "tin foil" hat theorists, and offering ridiculous excuses like, for the first time in the history of exit polls, they were off...

Notice, CNN is reporting on electronic voting machines, and Frist yesterday said CNN is responsible for Republicans' low poll numbers?

RLM #13

No I won't hate you for asking or even demanding that there be investigations into the 2004 elections.

What I do criticize is the incessant ignoring of the way congress works, and the resultant passing over of the crooks in chief to pick on the minority party.

That takes a neoCon mind set.

To my way of thinking, any criticism of congress must be pro rata. Blame and accountability will be meted out in accordance with the power a particular congress member has.

For example, chairs of committees are more to blame than mere members of a committee. Because the chairs have more power and influence than mere members.

Second comes the majority vote on each committee. The party with the most votes is more accountable, because it is those votes that determine what will be done.

Combined, the chair who is always a member of the majority party, and the majority of votes, which is also always the majority party, is to be held accountable.

And last and least is the minority party, which has only the power to question witnesses when hearings are scheduled by the chair.

I break it down into 5-4-1 ... the chair gets 5 accountability points, the majority votes get 4 accountability points, and the minority party gets 1 accountability vote.

So in each and every committee, where the power is in congress, the republican chair and majority get 9 points of accountability, and the minority party gets 1 accountability point.

It works the same for all parties, and adds up to holding the republicans 9 times more accountable than the minority democrats.

Anything else is sensless spleen venting, which will produce absolutely nothing in terms of getting a message to congress.

As long as the minority party is blamed for the acts of the majority, nothing will change.

But thankfully the America people know this, and they are showing a trend to vote out those accountable.

When the dems are in power, they get 9 accountability points, and the minority republicans 1.

OT

Drink This

Big Dan said:

"...CNN is reporting on electronic voting machines, and Frist yesterday said CNN is responsible for Republicans' low poll numbers"

Hmm - Which is the cause, and which is the affect?

Thanks again Lou - You're a ray of hope!

Did you ever see such a crooked beaatch in your life ?
Assmunch

Go to the bottom of this page, and be reminded of the
Brooks Brothers Riot 2000 with names and affiliations
Next time a few others will be there to slam some (meat) heads up against walls

I am pretty busy. However a typo clarification is in order..

Relax, I am done for today. (Hey SCOTUS 5-3 says bush overstepped --- like duh!)

btw - propig (was going to be the word propigate)
Like to grow little seeds into tomatoe plants. PROPIGATE

apologies to Brad if I have been annoying.
I am from the fidonet days, and I don't desire to be annoying. I just want my point made.

nn all

/quit

Everyone writing here take a momemt and write to Lou Dobbs to thank him for his exposure of the greatest threat to our Democracy. He is listening. You'll find a link to him on the CNN website.

Dredd, you are confusing 2 sepperate issues.

One issue is "who can effect change", and that would be the "majority party".. right? Today, that's the criminal Repukes.. and they are the ones changing things for the worse.

The "second" issue, and the point RLM (and I, on occasion) is trying to make is, "Dems can SPEAK OUT and DEMAND (albeit innefectually at PRESENT) accountablility". Yet, MOST of the Dems in office are being COMPLICIT because they are not SCREAMING about the injustices (and crimes, in a lot of cases). The Dem leadership is NOT taking a "strong stand" on "important issues", they are ignoring the facts and allowing a broke system to remain in place. Why do you think Congress has a 98% (or so) incumbancy retention?

Yes, we get that the Pugs are the "bag guys" who have "the power" and are abusing it. We ALL get that. But, we're also saying the DEMS are to BLAME for NOT speaking out about various failings, and for not supporting various actions (though ineffective at PRESENT) that would/could fix things. Who wants to vote for someone that won't help make sure the system is fixed? Why even BOTHER to go out and vote when you don't have anyone PUBLICLY STATING that they will protect you/the country?

The Dems are doing a serious disservice to this country by remaining silent on various issues. In general, our leadership has failed us.. ALL of our leadership (again, even considering that the "real power" is currently in Pug hands). Knowledge is power, and the Dems don't seem to want to arm the public..

Contact Lou Dobbs and tell him you appreciate this report.

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/forms/form4.html?7

OT

But exciting news: Supreme Court rules against Bush on Gitmo with broad implications against wire tapping!

Dredd #17

I think that was a really great way to express your point, and a pretty good rating system. I think I'd give the R's 8 and the D's 2 on your accountability scale, at least in the Senate, because the Democrats still have the filibuster and lack the unity and resolve to use it... threat of "Nuclear Option" or not. Worst thing that could happen to the R's is getting that bluff called. Well, maybe not "worst" but not pretty.

hey Big Dan, I stole your comment # 15 and edited it a bit and sent it as an email to Lou Dobbs in exhorting him to keep up the pressure for fair elections.

Thanks to all y'all for keeping it going!

shw

Here's a strategy for the "Democratic Opposition":

How about every Thursday, they refuse to participate in the game. All but one (rotating) Democratic member of the house leaves and goes out on the Mall and has "Open Democracy" where the theme is that the Republicans refuse to investigate the crimes of this Republican administration. They could meet with constituents willing to come to Washington, and conduct business in the open.

The ONE member left behind refuses to abide by UNANIMOUS CONSENT (where they get to do all kinds of stuff, so long as no member argues and demands a vote) but instead requires a vote on EVERYTHING.

It might not get noticed the FIRST week, or even the second, but if they kept it up, eventually people would start to notice.

THAT would be acting as "an opposition party" and understanding that when you only have 1 accountability point (see Dredd #17 above) you have to play the game differently.

Sadly, they are too busy taking orders from the DNC and DCCC and trying to be "Republican Lite" to actually take a STAND about anything that matters.

DEMOCRACY THURSDAY! Demand it now!

Charlie L
Portland, OR

You guys are the best. And if you were a citizen in Iraq and had just seen your whole family brutally killed , because of the criminals in the W.H. you would be super angry. WE should not have to pay for recounts because it is our country. The dems. in Alaska who wanted poll data from '04 had to pay not just for the data but for it to be manipulated. That was pretty transparent. Tin foil hat conspiracy. They have never tried to hide what they are doing....just slam anyone who questions them. Bully tactics.

For Dredd: I don't question your analysis of how Congress works, and your apportionment of blame for stolen elections makes sense, GIVEN THE CURRENT SYSTEM.

BUT THE WAY CONGRESS WORKS DOESN'T WORK! THE SYSTEM SUCKS! So somebody has to start thinking outside the box. I like Charlie L.'s idea of rotating Thursdays, with one Democrat at a time sitting outside and conducting the people's business directly. Great. I also think Democrats should abstain en masse whenever some phony issue like flag-burning comes up. Don't give those creeps the satisfaction of winning the vote and then isolating the honorable dissenters. Oh sure, Democrats would be accused of "not doing the people's business," but drastic measures are called for. Stolen elections are a cancer on our democracy, and you don't treat cancer with aspirin.

Hey wait a sec.... I must protest!

Why tell Phil to calm down?! I'm angry too!!!!!
If you're NOT goddamn angry, people, something is WRONG!!! HELL YES, BE ANGRY!!!!!

The question is
WHY THE HELL AREN'T LAWMAKERS ANGRY?! WHY AREN'T JOURNALISTS ANGRY?!

THERE'S SO MUCH TO BE ANGRY ABOUT IT MAKES YOUR HEAD SPIN!!!!!

Sorry for shouting.

#28 Shannon: OK, great. btw, really OT, I am right in the middle of the national news, of the 200,000 people evacuated form Wilkes-Barre, Pa. Because of the flooding of the Susquehanna.

Industrial standards set by ASTM International committees are accepted worldwide. We should demand that the e-vote companies bind themselves to the development of and adherance to such standards. It is a consensus organization so the companies , academics, computer scientists, political organizations, and other interested parties can be involved in the development of these standards. Just about every regulated and unregulated industry in the US participates in the specific committee concerning their product or process. This would get rid of the industry funded and dominated groups that currently claim to validate the machines.

I have been watching for some kind of reaction to all the media play Dobbs is giving to voting issues. As someone noted, Frist seems to think CNN is hurting things (but Frist, like Cheney, has fatal poll numbers and he can't be taken seriously either). But you'd think after someone of Dobbs calibre took on an issue and pressed this hard--you'd think there would be a more pronounced reaction. Frankly, the only reaction I see is bloggers being giddy that the mainstream media noticed the issue. Beyond that, where is the great public reaction and outcry we were all expecting?

"Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" Sigmond Freud

Butt not this TIME . . . . . Enjoy . . .

http://democrats.com/node/9339

GO BRAD!!!!!!! ASK DOBBS WHY THE REST OF CNN HAS BEEN TRYING TO BURY THIS STORY FOR 3 YEARS!!!!

I new it was time to turn the TV OFF when the WereWolf Blitzer came on with his gop slant on the "I" word...

This story was quite timely.Memphis Operation Election Integrity members appeared before the Shelby County Election Commisioner public hearing to discuss upcoming early voting and aug 3, 2006. election procedures. A member of the League of Women Voters was present we prsesented the Breenan Report. They were on pins and needles with the video recording the whole process.GUEST WHAT? Two Diebold reps showed up they would not let us cross exam him they protected he and she out the door after he fillirbusted on memory card issues. What a shame!

Savantster #24

I disagree with your frame of the issue. I say the issue RLM raised is accountability. He alleges that accountability should be applied to democrats:

until you [dems] call for a full investigation of the 2004 election by Congress

(post #13). The problem with his charge is that it is not factual, nor is it a valid charge.

For instance, Robert Kennedy Jr. is a democrat and has done what RLM and you say should be done; Conyers is a democrat and has done just that too.

But if you were awake you noticed that Conyers could not even get a hearing room for his unofficial hearing. This was the subject of a thread here. And the control possessing republicans would not hold hearings that the dems called for and still call for.

As an example of how reality works, note that the major congressional activity with respect to the investigation of the regime's statements (a.k.a. lies) that got us into Iraq have not been followed.

The dems asked for hearings and made an agreement with Pat Roberts, chair of the intelligence committee, to do "Phase II" following Phase I. Everyone agreed.

The republicans violated their agreement to do the investigation into how the regime used (a.k.a. misused) intelligence, following Phase I.

Under the criteria you advocate, we would blame the dems too for "not doing a complete investigation" into those matters. Even tho all they can do and are doing is complaining about the republican breach of agreement.

When the republicans break their promises, and the dems complain, it is trollish to hold the dems accountable.

Agent99 #27

The numbers you came up with are fine with me, because they illustrate the point that it is the chair and the majority votes that govern committees.

And congressional committees have the jurisdiction over every subject matter.

That is why accountability must be based upon what can be done and what cannot be done by congress members.

What they can and should do is not the same as what they cannot do but want to do.

RLM #31

Well I happen to agree with you that the current system in congress does not work as a democratic institution should.

That is, the majority party committee system does not work in the way a democratic institution should.

Currently, as I have said ad nauseum, the party with the most members (majority) gets to chair each and every committee, have the majority vote on each and every committee, and decide which of its members will chair and be assigned to each committee.

The committees have jurisdiction of every potential bill and the bill lives and dies on the say of the chair and the majority vote.

The minority members have a miniscule participation by contrast to the majority party members.

I have advocated a system where the chair and membership are done pro rata, so that each party will have chair and majority vote on at least one committee.

Perhaps the selection of the committee in question would be done by a draw from a hat or anything else that would generate random results.

The winner take all mentality has led to discord, anger, resentment, and bad blood in congress. The alternate method would work better.

JOJ #36

No - you certainly haven't lost your touch! LMAO!

My question is...when will these people make the giant leap (or small step) from realizing it can be done...to it HAS been done...?