Absolutely iron-clad logic, thank you.

All I can say is, WELL DUH!!!!

Song to the repubs:

Blue, blue, my country's blue, blue is my country now I'm without you
Yea, yea, my life is great, happy is my heart since you went away

Oh oh - looks like Bluebear's losing it!

We should keep in mind that this erosion of support is a reaction to the utter incompetence of the Bush administration, and not rejection of conservatism.

The Republican-leaning electorate still wants immigration to be limited, wants people to take personal responsibility for their lives, wants the right to own guns, and wants fewer abortions.

We aren't going back to the Sixties, guys. Though I wouldn't mind doing so.

Those numbers are rendered even more meaningful when you consider that a poll can ask any ridiculous question, and there will ALWAYS be at least 5-10% taking the wrong position. Is the world flat? 8% of republicans and 2% of democrats probably think so, with 4% of those independent 'middle of the road' voters saying its somewhere in between.

I know this is off subject, but is from the WHY CAN'T WE GET ANY HELP DEPT.

Barney Franks is coming to Utah and was on a local radio station here named KRCL (Radio Free Utah). This is the local station here that carries the Amy Goodman Democracy Now program! I called in and gave my name, saying I wanted to ask a question concerning the voting machines. The screener said OK hold please. She then came back on and asked what exactly did you want to ask about the machines, was it something to do with paper ballots. I said yes and she said OK. Then she came back on and said that’s not really an issue they wanted to get into on the program. I asked “isn’t this a station that supports free speech?” She said yes, but we’re not going to steer the program in that direction.

I called back later and asked if it was the decision of Mr. Frank or the station to not allow me to ask the question. She said it was the radio stations decision because they wanted to keep the conversation more focused. I said that he had JUST finished talking about getting people more interested in voting and that I thought it was a pertinent question. She said she thought the manager was just making a split second decision and there were a lot of callers at the time and they had to let one go. I said “so it was the most important question that you had to let go”. She said they have to pick and choose sometimes and they have had programs that were devoted to the issue before (true). I said I thought it would have been important to hear Mr. Franks comment on the issue and hoped she could understand my frustration.

It's going to be interesting since the human pustule (Rove) has cut back on WH duties to concentrate on the elections. Guess we can expect more lies and spin!!

VIRUS ALERT

I just received an email with the Virus "W32.Ganda.A@mm".

ken@usinterweb.com was listed as the sender and "G.W Bush animation." was in the subject line. The body of the letter contains "Here's the animation that the FBI wants to stop. Seems like the feds are trying to put an end to peoples right to say what they think of the US administration. Have fun!"

I have also been starting to receive other infected mail claiming to come from various progressive institutions.

Be careful folks

This is a telling time indeed.

We've always wondered who the heck those 33-34% were!?

A while back I saw a lady on some program who ran a diner somewhere in the midwest talking about how she had just promised a customer who had ordered a sandwich with Dijon mustard, "sure, Dijon, ok." (Tumbleweed blows by. Viewers take a drink simply because it looks so damn dry and desolate.) Then she turns to the camera and says, "I don't even know what Dijon is, hahaha, (like Dijon is a nasty poison)!" Then she's asked about Bush. She says "What's not to like?!" That my friends, is out of touch.

Twang.

I say, bring on those gas prices! It may be worth it if there goes that 33% and leaves just the defense contractors and other such beneficiaries of these very private policies! I may be well on my way to considering such costs, in part, an anti-neocon campaign contribution! If it weren't for all the anger I have.

Always looking on the bright side

Larry Bergan - Thanks for trying! That's the important part right now...And all that we all can do.

Miss P, except, uh, could I get a ride to the grocery store for my weekly ration of soda crackers? People are already hocking their household goods for gas money to get to work. This isn't a bit funny.

Larry, that is interesting. If there's a widespread effort by MSM to suppress e-vote security issues, how come no one has come forward as a "whistleblower"? We have a local progressive station where I live, and they talk about everything under the sun, everything we read on progressive blogs, except anything to do with e-vote problems. But, how can this be kept under wraps so well? YOU are a firsthand witness to this happening, as far as I'm concerned.

And why is FOX notNews running topics like this? It's a trap! (lol) Maybe they see a blue America coming up, and want to "get in good" with non-crazies to keep their ratings up. It might be some kind of a sign.

Keep in mind, as people making minimum wage are probably breaking even getting there & back with the price of soaring gas, that EXXON's CEO just got a $400 MILLION DOLLAR RETIREMENT PACKAGE! What a sick, decadent country we live in. One old man got $400 million dollars, while an entire country of middleclass & poor workers cannot afford to fill their gas tanks to get to work & back. I just put gas in my tank in Pa., in my Chevy Lumina...$39.00!!! Hope this old man, and all the board of Exxon choke on this $400 million.

I repeat, $400 million for one old man who is running the company that is gouging consumers. Gas is not optional, we have to pay whatever the price is. It's like water & electricity, and they know it. It should be government controlled. They could ask $8/gallon, and we'd have to pay it.

We need more tax cuts for the rich. I guess this old CEO gets even more money, when you figure in Bush's tax cuts for the rich. Probably got him an extra couple of million.

U.S. leaders: Keep up the great work!!! Gas prices went up because of Hurricane Katrina...so what is the reason now? This proves what we all knew...Katrina was a convenient lie to push up gas prices. I always thought we got oil from the Middle East; now I know we get it from New Orleans. I never knew that!

Big Dan - I have to state again that KRCL has run programs on the voting issues more then once, with people who know what they're talking about and that's why it pains me so much to have to be angry at THEM. I listen to and love the station, but I spent over a thousand dollars that I really don't have and have and given MANY hours of my life in the last five years to get democrats elected. I'm afraid all of the young people who got involved for the first time in 2004 to stop this madness will give up. They're not stupid. They know these machines can't be trusted, so why bother. It's a real threat!

Besides that, I've lived in Utah all my life and I know a lot of die-hard "pull yourselves up by the bootstraps " types who didn't vote for Bush last time, and I was at the democratic primaries for the first time and they were so busy, they were running out of ballots. I simply don't believe Bush got that many votes after four years of incompetence. We used punch cards that time, and that is software driven too.

The republicans here didn't even HAVE a primary saying that if would be a waste of time, but an article in "The Nation" surmised that may have been because they didn't want a bad showing for Bush. Also we had a Woman Governor who had taken over for Mike Leavitt (Bush's new guy) and exposed a servalience system called "Matrix" that was being tested here to gather all information of Utahn's without their knowledge (TRUE FACT).

Please America, forgive us for Orrin Hatch and Chris Cannon, we may not be as dumb as we seem after all!

Brad said: ... Republican voters, even in (or especially in) a Fox "News" poll are completely out of touch and out of step with mainstream America ...

And now we know the bonus one gets, along with the kool aid, for watching faux "news" (a.k.a. mindless propaganda).

FAUX NEWS FAN

IN SAFE MODE

I feel safer when this faux news fan sleeps during important meetings.

In such cases there will be less war, lower gasoline prices, good Katrina help, less spying on Americans, fewer American ports run by foreign nations, fewer immigrants becoming felons, fewer leaks of the names of CIA agents working to free the world of WMD's, and fewer people shot in the face with shotguns.

I've been seeing several references to the rising gasoline prices, and while I know it's a bit off-topic, I can't help but respond.

The problem is not that gas prices are too high. We still have some of the lowest gas prices in the developed world. Gas in the US is heavily subsidized, both directly and indirectly (consider that the infrastructure costs and cleanup costs associated with auto use is payed free by the taxpayer). The problem is that we don't have an efficient urban landscape, nor do we have many effective transport alternatives (these two problems are really different sides of the same problem).

I live in Copenhagen now, and gas prices are over double what they are in the US. No problem ... I have absolutely no need for a car. The transit system is very efficient, with a mix of rail and bus, necessary destinations (post, bank, grocer, pharma, etc.) are generally within a half-mile walk, and there is extensive infrastructure for bicycling (an intermediate level of specially designated road, special lights, common bike parking racks, safe traffic conditions). In fact, cars are so uncommon for young people (less need and high cost, due to a 180% tax at purchase) that there is also no social stigma for being without one.

It's time we stopped complaining about high gas prices and got down to the real issue ... poor transport planning and city design. Gas prices should be high, reflecting the extensively higher costs associated with usage than what we currently see at the pump. We just shouldn't have to care, because we shouldn't be dependant on it.

To Larry Bergan: the most frustrated I've ever been with Orren Hatch was watching him use the Scandinavian countries as examples of why we SHOULDN'T allow marriage rights to gays. It followed the stat that marriage rates have dropped in the decade since gay marriage was legalized; never mind that it had been dropping well before that as well, and that the obvious reason is general sexual liberation. As the strongest democracies in the developed world, with the greatest equality and the most sustainable patterns of living, as well as some of the best health and least crime, my general opinion is that if Scandinavians are doing it, we should take a good look at doing it too. Apparently, many of his constituents probably don't have the same perspective.

Ari: I fully agree with you! I was in Germany twice, and they have an excellent transit system. Everyone takes the straussenbaun (sp?) everywhere, like the old trollies. Families have one car, because they have such excellent mass transit.

Probably the oil & auto lobbyists are making sure Congress doesn't improve our mass transit.

I would buy a hybrid car, but the boat most of us are in, is that we buy used cars, and there's just no used hybrid cars out there. Most of us buy used cars, we don't want to buy a brand new hybrid for $30,000.00. Both my cars were used under $3,000.00. Two cars for $6,000.00. Or save gas by buying a $30,000.00 hybrid. Our government is doing nothing to help those of us who would like to help save oil/gas. America can do anything. Our leaders don't want to get us off oil.

Larry: What Democrat has publicly come out and said, mincing no words, that electioins are being stolen on GOP-donor-made e-vote machines?

Ari - I'm really ignorant of all things Scandinavian, but I've always thought America's greatest strength was it's culmination of the best ideas from many cultures! I'm all for it! I just watched the DNC conference and, although there's almost nobody that gets me more exicted then Howard Dean, He pulled out the old "we're the best country on the face of the planet" and I cringe whenever I hear that!

Boy, Big Dan, you got me on that one, was it hidden on the internet as well as the MSM or do I have alzheimers?

I have not seen this thought on Blogs and am interested in others' reactions to the idea: do not bleed away the anger by
removing Rumsfeld or trying to impeach Bush. Let's get a Democratic Congress voted in first. Then let's assess what best to do to get a Democratic President elected.

This all seems pretty clear and easy to understand. But the role of Independents, while pivotal in many elections, is virtually ignored on Capitol Hill and especially in the media. This creates a disconnect between politics and reality.

There's exactly one Independent in the U.S. Congress, Bernie Sanders of Vermont. and one Senator, Jim Jeffords, also of Vermont. Although Independent voters make up a huge percentage of the electorate (in my state, Connecticut, we're dominant), we aren't represented. Congressional committees are headed by a member of the majority party IN THAT BRANCH OF CONGRESS, whether or not the party represents a majority of voters of that legislator's home state.

The media are just as bad. TV pundits view every issue through a Democrat-Republican prism. "Is this good for Bush, or for the Democrats?" "Will Republicans maintain control?" "Why are Democrats divided on this issue?" When they refer to Democrats and Repubicans, they mean elected people, not citizens...they mean party members, not public servants.

Effectively, Independents are excluded from public discourse by government processes and by the media. Yet Bush is at 33% and Congress is at 30% in approval ratings. What's wrong with this picture?

Larry, from my perspective ideas have been almost wholly flowing out of America, rather than in, ever since we established global hegemony in the 50's. It used to be good in many areas, as when we were at the forefront of the environmental and labor movements, as well the push to provide excellent public higher education, among other things.

Now, it's a lot more difficult to find any positive ideas among those we export. And yet, we have such strong influence over the global market for ideas (American news, American publications, American programming, and American-influenced programming is everywhere) that I'm seriously worried about Europe, and the rest of the world, following our course once again.

I cringe as well. How can we hope to recruit people to the push for improvement when Dr. Pangloss (Candide reference) is telling us there is no existence that is better? While the foundations of our house crumble, we remain oblivious.

An emphasis on greater international cultural exchange, especially among our youth, should be a national issue, as important as electoral reform.

I think this is a pertinent remark from the blog Grey Matters.

(Quote)
So Bush is down to just a 33% approval rating --- and this from a Fox News poll!

Unfortunately, odds are that's about as low as it's going to go. At a time when that number should be single digits, the fact that it's not goes a long way towards displaying that bedrock core of know-nothings who will support this president no matter how bad things get. With religion, and namely abortion, as the driving issue for most of them, Bush could run through the streets naked on TV and he'd still get the votes of this 30%.

It's an enormous advantage to have this 30% anchored, in-stone block of voters. If it were a Dem president currently in GW's shoes, you can be assured this 30% zombie-block would be unanimously against him/her and then perhaps another 30+% reasonable people who rightfully would want change = 60+%.

And there's the problem: it's not a 100% electorate up for grabs, but rather given 30% on auto-pilot for the GOP, it leaves just 70% up for grabs. Now do the math: the Dems need to win 73% of that 70% (.73 x .70 = 51%), whereas the GOP only needs to win 30% of that up-for-grabs 70% (.30 + (.3 x .7) = 51%).

Appreciating the math is crucial. And we haven't even factored in the paper-trail-less, blackbox voting machine shenanigans!

(end quote)

FUCK SNOOZE POLL: Republicans Out of Touch? .....Well, yeah.

Gtash, the Democratic party has its own die-hards. How many? I have no idea. However, they're there.

Additionally, I still suspect a decent portion of that 30% is suffering from misinformation and confused priorities. The main challenge of the Democratic party is to distill its core stances into simple, compelling and constructive messages. Bush can easily put 3000 faces on terrorism; the challenge is to get people to recognize the faces associated with toxic mine leaks, unemployment, stranded urban youth, air quality, etc.

There's no point making this more intimidating that it already is ... it is a challenge we have to meet.

Ari-
I don't doubt there is a base of Dem die-hards, but I don't think you're right about the 30% . I think you are right about the formidable task however. I think the number of malleable within the 30% is probably less than 5%---an unscientific estimate of course. Convincing them may hardly matter. The issue in my book is apathy and hopelessness. I think many voters are aware of the current Administration's failings, they simply don't think switching out the players (Dem or Repub) will make much difference, at least nationally. My impression is that very local concerns seem disconnected in their minds to the national concerns---local property taxes, the local school board policies. Voters of a broader spectrum of values get involved because they can effect change, influence outcomes, play some obvious part, interact with people they know.
I think it is a feeling of detachment and apathy that needs to be overcome---still a formidable task--- to alter the national political landscape. Critics of the Dems often put it this way: "The Democratic party offers no choice, no alternative for dealing with what's wrong--Iraq, Health Insurance, etc---" You know, the "not a dime's worth of difference" criticism. National issues seem to be the province of American (Political) Idols--- Shining Knights or Bumbling Embarrassments---nobody gets much credit for regular workmanlike political performance.

So I think that 25-30% base is essentially beyond rational persuasion. It's whether they are Ford fans or Chevy fans, simple as that. The constructive messages of which you speak are needed, but mainly to break thru the apathy resides in the rest of the electorate. That is the long hard slog the Dems have to overcome (IMHO).

80 million people, all registered voters, did not vote in the last presidential election. That right there trumps all the math and number crunching.

Populist policies to get people involved is the key. Not swing vote tactics to try and persuade die-hards.

But if you look and listen, you will hear the term swing-vote quite a bit in the press. This is because the press, the corporate press, ABCNNBCBS and FAUX, have marching orders to encourage the swing vote strategy 24/7. It is a corporate strategy designed to keep all mental energy away from anything resembling populist policies that might actually get the masses involved.

Keep going more conservative for the middle!!! The corporations could hardly be happier than when the Dems (and all the grassroot Dem foot soldiers) are chanting "swing vote, swing vote".

It's a corporate strategy to keep politics moving to the Right.

RLM #23

You asked "What's wrong with this picture?"

What's wrong is that it is anti-voter, anti-the people. Each political party that wins a seat because the people chose them means, IMO, that they should get some action.

Instead the minority party is "treated like a step-child". Thus "the people are treated like a step-child."

We have a construct in congress, as you have heard me rant about here ad nauseum, that resembles a dictatorship more than a democracy.

I mean the majority party in congress (whether independent, democrat, republican, green, libertarian, etc) rules the roost and it is near impossible for the minority party to do anything.

Time to fix the rules of congress and make it more representative and open it up to all parties who place any members there. The people party is the party of America.