I know most of you have read about Ion Sancho's test of Diebold voting machines in Leon County, Florida; however, Susan Pynchon, one of those in attendance at the test has written one of the most powerful commentaries on that test that I have yet read. The procedure is very clearly delineated, step by step; and she doesn't mince words in her summation near the end:

http://www.counterpunch.org/pynchon01232006.html

There's only one way to beat these Diebold bastards...everybody vote by absentee ballots. I refuse to vote on touch machines that don't leave a paper trail because I read that the Diebold CEO, a big Bush contributor, had guarenteed Ohio to the Republicans. Try absentee voting, no travel, no long lines...and your ballot is counted.

I've voted by mail for a number of years now,but even then I don't trust it to be counted.I RESENT what Bush and the republican party have done to erode our democracy,I am OUTRAGED that our America seems to be slipping away,and I am APPALLED THAT SO MANY PEOPLE ARE SO IGNORANT AS TO ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN!!
Yes,the CEO of Diebold promised that he would, indeed,hand the election to Bush,they had it all planned all along.Maybe we should encourage everyone to vote by mail,that may be our last resort.

This is about the most absurd thing I've heard yet. The steam is shooting out of my ears I'm so angry right now.
The message being sent is "Why even bother voting, the results are already in and no-one can verify them!"

What a crock of stinky slimey liquid shit!

Company secrets? What, have they claimed arithmetic as intellectual property?

Vote by absentee ballot?

In California, absentee ballots are inputted into a Diebold machine. The only way to get an accurate vote count starts with impeachment, and the only way to get impeachment is to convince the 568 up for election this year that they won't be re-elected in November unless they impeach Bush. Catch-22 it might be, but every moment in history is another moment that the rulers didn't quite figure right once again. There's more besides Plame/FISA/DowningStreet/....

It should come as no surprise by now that Black Box Voting consulted on this public transparancy project in Alaska . We'll work with anybody of any political persuasion in election reform, election transparancy or related non-partisan issues...we don't get involved in, say, campaign finance issues for example.

But this? This is about whether we own our votes or Diebold does. If we don't own our votes, if we can't even see the data files let alone the programs, then the basic civil right to oversee elections and democracy is in tatters.

Civil rights don't function unless excercised. Kudos to anyone doing so.

----------

Lou: especially where Diebold is concerned, absentee isn't the solution! Rather than retype something long I'll refer y'all to Bev and I in this thread:

http://www.bbvforums.org...s/messages/73/17248.html

Short form: Diebold has the absentee "problem" "fully solved" (yuck).

Jim March
Staffer/investigator,
Black Box Voting Inc.

Does this explain Stevens?

Ted Stevens?

We have no idea.

Understand, at this point we don't have a "fraud" investigation so much as a "what the heck happened?" investigation. To be honest, so far the 2004 Alaska results look more like a major blunder of some sort versus fraud, though nothing at ALL is certain.

But...generally fraud is "slicker" than this. Like James Bond. This has more of an "Inspector Clouseau" flavor to it...bordering on Three Stooges. :hehe:

Anyways. For now, the main issue is transparancy. Until I (and others) spend multiple hours chewing on that MDB file...

Jim
Investigator/staffer, Black Box Voting

When I was young I was told that we studied history so we could learn from, and not be doomed to repeat it. I never took that seriously - and yet what Bush and his friends are pulling off is so horrible - it will destroy the world as we know it, and they don't care. Who will dare stand against this evil? It is, as has been said, the fight of our lives and we are all losing. Except, of course, for the 'righteous'. Dark ages, anyone?

Alaska is interested in voting descrepencies? What about the other 49 states who got on the swiftboat and attacked this issue with no concern? Amerikan Center For Voting Rights is so proud..so proud. The following 4 swing states helped the Bushit administration crown the loser for the 2nd consecutive time in a US presidential election: New Mexico, Nevada, Florida, and OOOOOOhio. The Improvised theft of computer hacked votes AND massive humanistic fraud is well documented by the OHIO FREE PRESS. I look forward to Kenneth Blackwell rotting in prison for his contribution to the theft of Ohio. Yes - the whole election was staged by Republicans AND Democrats. ALL GUILTY MUST BE HELD ACCOUNTABLE. My personal favorite aspect of the Bushit Fascist regime is their control of the media. The silence was (and is) defening with except of ridiculing the idea of a conspiracy and those damn internet wackos. Thank you Bradblog.

While I agree our state Division of Elections needs to do a better job of breaking down individual district results, there is not a problem of no paper trail here in Alaska. The Diebold machines used for many years here (including 2004) are not the touch screen pure electronic machines, but rather fill-in-the-blank bubble cards that are then scanned into an optical reader. The paper cards are then randomly spot-checked to the results the optical scanners provide. I have complete faith in the machines and I've voted on them since ~2000.

Boycott Diebold: Let us send a message to Diebold,do not use ATM machines,and do not do your banking at Banks that use Diebold machines.
If we booycott banks that have Diebold machines I do not think it will take long for Diebold to change their attitude,as of now, they are in some serious financial problems.
Ohio Joe

Someone needs to rip open the files in Diebold's computer and find out what's in there in Alaska....

My bet is, Ted Stevens was elected using neocons. Fraud by machine.

Doug E.

Ted Stevens?

We have no idea.

Understand, at this point we don't have a "fraud" investigation so much as a "what the heck happened?" investigation. To be honest, so far the 2004 Alaska results look more like a major blunder of some sort versus fraud, though nothing at ALL is certain.

But...generally fraud is "slicker" than this. Like James Bond. This has more of an "Inspector Clouseau" flavor to it...bordering on Three Stooges. :hehe:

Anyways. For now, the main issue is transparancy. Until I (and others) spend multiple hours chewing on that MDB file...

Jim
Investigator/staffer, Black Box Voting

Eh...sorry for the repeat...what the heck?

Scott: if the paper isn't counted, it might as well be softer and come on a roll.

Jim

Who gives a shit about the "format"? Just give us the paper trail of who voted for whom. How in the world can that ever be considered proprietary?

For God sake there must be someone that works at this company that could get us the records or dump them on the net. If you work at Diebold and you have a conscience PLEASE PLEASE!! do the right thing.

Scott Johnson #12

Take note of what Jim March in post #16 says. On voting issues he has developed a non-partisan professionalism from more experience on those matters than any of us here.

He stood up to the bad acting officials in Southern California not so long ago. They arrested him and then backed off and dismissed the charges even tho he was gung-ho to take them on. He has what it takes.

What he is telling you is that tally machines and the Alaska configuration is not hack proof.

Plus, he is not saying that in fact they were hacked, just that it looks that way, but hackers are smoother than that.

Many years ago I worked in the Alaska Governor's Office, in the Secretary of State Division. I took care of the state ballots once they reached Juneau, and became the property of the Secretary of State. In that time I had faith in the officials of the state government.

It may be like Jim suspects, but the good folks at BBV will follow thru with it. They will let the evidence dictate what the facts are.

I knew some very colorful people in Alaska, that were very, very convinced that election fraud had taken place in Alaska elections. Specifically the vote on whether Alaska should become a state or not. They wanted to remain a territory and not become one of the United States. The vote went the other way.

I can't say one way or the other, but I am sure that "election fraud" is not a phrase the Alaskans have not heard before.

And let's not forget that for the first ime in our national history, the exit polls (which called Kerry the leader) didn't match up with the results proclaimed. Also, for the first time in our history, outside forces offered to monitor our national election, which only happens when there is suspicion of voting irregularities.
What a sad day for our country.

The Corrosion of Conformity continues...

Lest we forget:

"The November elections in the Ukraine and the US bore many similarities, but unlike the US, in Ukraine the opposition didnt take the results lying down. Thousands are now in the streets. There are calls for a general strike and many talk of civil war........."

The people of The Ukraine took to the streets when they had their election stolen from them. In America, the same issue is "swimming through the mud".

There can only be two reasons for this: those in power are better at what they're doing, or the people aren't smart enough to see what they're up to.

When Dwight D. Eisenhower warned us of "The Military-Industrial Complex, he knew of what he spoke. It is now upon us.

::::::::::::::::::

A Couple of Eisenhower quotes:

"I like to believe that people in the long run are going to do more to promote peace than our governments. Indeed, I think that people want peace so much that one of these days governments had better get out of the way and let them have it."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower in a letter to his brother Edgar, November 8, 1954

:::::::::::::

"Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history. There is a tiny splinter group, of course, that believes you can do these things. Among them are H. L. Hunt (you possibly know his background), a few other Texas oil millionaires, and an occasional politician or business man from other areas. Their number is negligible and they are stupid."
-- Dwight D. Eisenhower in a letter to his brother Edgar, November 8, 1954

forget

Dwight D. Eisenhower

::::::::::::::::::::::

Everything between these two links I posted came out highlighted in BOLD! type.

Is there a way to get it to not do that?

{ed note: I fixed it for you, Bob. You had closed the link with a "a/" instead of "/a" --- so it didn't close properly. BF}

As a Footnote:

I am reminded of JFK's words: "Those who make peaceful revolutions impossible will make violent revolution inevitable"

It happened before on American soil. Don't fool yourself that it could never happen again.

One of the significant issues in Alaska was the vote on marijuana legalization --- not medical, but a complete legalization. It was voted down, but there was something like 40% who voted in favor. Those numbers could have been skewed, as stoned citizens usually become peaceful and specifically anti-war. Of course, that would go against The Plan.

The only way to ensure that every vote is counted, and posted correctly is to go back to using paper ballots and counting them in front of the public. What's more important... getting results quickly, or getting the count right?

I, for one, am not willing to leave my vote at the mercy of unsupervised partisan counters in locked rooms, or private companies with heavy investments in one party or candidate, who aren't willing to provide a paper trail, secure their systems, or allow open acces by allparties and the public to all vote related information. It's only right that every election be without doubt. The future of our country is more important than avoiding a few extra hours of suspense on election day!!

Did anyone notice how efficient the Canadian election went with the old school paper ballet and hand count. What a concept the model of voting standards in the world. Also apparently they now have four official parties to choose from not just one I mean two. The old saying if it's not broken don't tamper I mean fix it. And they have taxpayers paid healthcare across the country what a ridiculus concept could never work anywhere else for sure. Bloody Barmy.

Did anyone notice how efficient the Canadian election went with the old school paper ballot and hand count. What a concept the model of voting standards in the world. Also apparently they now have four official parties to choose from not just one I mean two. The old saying if it's not broken don't tamper I mean fix it. And they have taxpayers paid healthcare across the country what a ridiculus concept could never work anywhere else for sure. Bloody Barmy.

Jim-

Why can't Brewster, the Alaska Division of Elections or the State be sued by the Democratic Party (or some other interested party) to force the issue. Diebold would have to become a party in the suit because they would object to the State being forced to release their "company secrets" and ultimately the whole thing would get it's "day in court". Of course, if it were ultimately appealed to the Supreme Court, truth and openness would likely be screwed by the newly packed rightwing majority.

Did anyone notice how efficient the Canadian election went with the old school paper ballot and hand count. What a concept the model of voting standards in the world. Also apparently they now have four official parties to choose from not just one I mean two. The old saying if it's not broken don't tamper I mean fix it. And they have taxpayers paid healthcare across the country what a ridiculus concept could never work anywhere else for sure. Bloody Barmy.

Bob, I'd guess you missed the closing " on the hyperlink.. at the end of the 'href' string.. I did that the other day as well, it looked a lot like yours.. The closing of the thread on the second link is what fixed it. On mine, because it wasn't closed, a significant portion of my post was dumped..

You can use the 'preview' option when you are posting links, to make sure they are formed properly.. I was gonna do that, but missed my button :/

As a side note, there is no "good" reason that Diebold can't make a "converter" that takes the records in their 'company secret' format, and dumps out the text in a nationalized 'standard'.. well, other than our governement doesn't want to publish a standard for displaying e-voting data.. If you think there's a problem with that, think about how e-filing your taxes works.. every year there's a published format that the data needs to be transmitted in to the IRS.. Why can't someone sit down and say "this is how we want election data to be put out in human readable files"? Then Diebold is happy -and- we get to see the "results" of the election..

Of course, that doesn't allow for us to "prove" that the data isn't being manipulated before/after/during processing.. nor does it ensure no hanky-panky is going on with elections.. And, of course, using paper ballotts is the best solution all the way around..

Savantster #31

Thanks for the info you gave to Bob regarding the bold font. Happened to me too last week and messed everything up. If I recall you are the one who fixed it.
Thanks again.

Tale of two hurricanes

Read the Truth

mark_twain

Kind of off topic at this thread, but very sad none the less!

Wasn't me, Bluebear2.. I think either you had posted another link that fixed it, or someone else did.. but wasn't me

speaking of sad things, and lies, and stolen elections and such.. anyone hear any more about George Galloway and the trumped up charges by our Congress of his taking money in the oil-for-food program? I found this link about how he won his lible suit .. but I've not heard anything more about Congress' threat to have him extradited/charged here? Last I saw on the news or something, there was a lot of hot air from Congress bout how Galloway lied... yet, no charges, no proceedings, nothing (that I can find)..

Isn't it telling that our government will piss on the shoes of anyone that dares point out their crimes? and they tend to do their pissing with "threats of legal action", but never do anything about it? I'd really be curious to know if they are going to persue this, or if it was a stunt to try and shut him up..

I used to be an apathetic non-voter for just this reason discussed in this blog. These elections are a sham and the cards are always stacked against us. Unfortunatly, or perhaps fortunatly Bush has made me a registered voter. The 2004 election was my first Presidential election to vote against this trainwreck of an administration, and as I watched the numbers become skewed around midnight in November 2004 I was only reminded of why I didn't want anything to do with voting in the first place. I'm a different person these days, and a couple stolen elections is only going to streanthen my determination to get my vote counted. We have to keep fighting this with our votes. I figure they are cheating us only out of despiration because they know that Bush has created more enemies then friends. It may take another election or two but we are democracy and we are coming for this skrewed up government. If my apathy only helped create this problem before, my new voter demographic is now on the way to fix this. Let's get em all you previously apathetic non-voters.

The main difference between the election fraud in Ukraine and the election fraud in the United States is that the media covered the fraud over there.

Robert Lockwood Mills:

The American MSM cannot afford to cover anything that will severly embarass America on a worldwide scale.

American MSM business success worldwide, to date, has been in large part to the good worldwide reputation the U.S. has had in previous years, as a champion force for "democracy", "freedom", etc.

People in places like Timbuktu have been tuning into international versions of CNN, FOX, CNBC, because these channels symbolize America, the champion country which updholds these ideals.

If CNN, FOX, CNBC were to broadcast stories that revealed American democracy and freedom to be a sham, or even began to question things, people around the world would ask themselves, "Why are we watching an American news channel, anyways? Americans are a bunch of fakers who rig elections!"(This would be quickly followed, of course, with questions like, "Why are we buying Nike, Coke, McDonald's, anyways???"

In other words, it isn't "Patriotic" for MSM too broadcast anything that dares to question the "perfection" of American freedom and democracy. It makes bad "business sense" for them, and it makes bad business sense for so many other multinational American corporations.

So, America is a hostage to its own success. The corporate giants it has created will do anything, igore anything, so long as Brand America is not tarnished worldwide.

Don't expect American MSM to ever broadcast serious stories about stolen elections, unless they are forced to with bare facts already staring everyone in the face. And that is where places like BradBlog and BlackBoxVoting come in...

JIM: Lets just get this clear right now.

Diebold has no reason to even be in the state of Alaska, especially if their code is illegal. They need to be forced out with full guns a blazing.

And now there's an alternative which fully fixes this problem once and for all, without faulty, hacked, junk machines!

Doug E.

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