I like this part, "Accept it. Get over it." In 2005, some might argue this applies on both sides of the aisle.

However there are important issues which still need a resolution prior to 2008, and with time for testing to occur:

How do the lessons learned from Diebold get addressed with this?

What's going to be done to ensure the non-sense of 2000/2004 is put to rest?

What will it take to get the DOJ OPR off their rear end and bring some credible sanctions against those who are messing around with the American election system?

The more Americans, especially those in the RNC [my party], point to distractions like Katrina and Rita or Iraq, and don't address these issues, then the more likely people in other nations are going to have increased contempt for the US.

The US already has pissed off the world with Iraq, WMD, [blah, blah] . . . The US need to more visibly bring in people from African/Central/SouthAmerica to monitor our elections and get these voting irregularities addressed, investigated, and prosecuted, not swept under the rug.

Just one fantasy digression I cannot help: with Gore in the Oval Office, he gets reports of Al Quaida plans to strike from pretty much seamless transition, actually listens and engages in critical thought process (!), investigates, takes action and stops 9/11. What a better world we would live in now and indeed deserve to live in.

OK, now back to "what do we do now?" Work hard to take back our democracy through getting a transparent voting process. Much of the agenda for the summit here in Portland next weekend will offer practical means to do this. Those of you who attend and others, please spread the word, I will.

Just one fantasy digression I cannot help: with Gore in the Oval Office, he gets reports of Al Quaida plans to strike from pretty much seamless transition, actually listens and engages in critical thought process (!), investigates, takes action and stops 9/11. What a better world we would live in now and indeed deserve to live in.

OK, now back to "what do we do now?" Work hard to take back our democracy through getting a transparent voting process. Much of the agenda for the summit here in Portland next weekend will offer practical means to do this. Those of you who attend and others, please spread the word, I will.

Thanks, jimmy. Thanks alot. And thanks for co-chairing that bogus committee with baker, too. You're a big help.

Li'l NEWS FLASH:
"George is drinkin' again". So says Barry Levine of the Inquirer on Air America an hour or so ago. Haven't heard Randi yet but she MUST be talking about it...gotta tune in...

Whats it going to be now republicans? Al Gore won that election, even Carter says so.

Its time to put the bull to the sidewalk. We need to shovel this crap right off out of here, away with Diebold, the traitors, and every other thug in Washington.

We must end ES&S and Sequoia's strategy of BS and declare outright war on the establishment. Its time for no more dishonest elections, or wars, or both and we're going to make it happen and put it to bed for good!!!!!

READY OR NOT

But 2004 was squeaky clean, Jimmy? I don't think so and neither do you.

Trust me, folks!
George Walker Bullshit is NOT a boozer!!!!!
George Walker Bullshit is however a pot smoker!
Can't you tell by the goofy look on his face that he smokes marijuana!? And he smokes marijuana to the max! He even gets his dog stoned!
Don't take my word for it! It's in the Bible; look it up! Holy Smoke!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DUH!! Why is he admitting it now ? Why not back when it might have mattered. Besides, it's common knowledge, lots of evidence of violations of Florida Law. No investigation into the violations. No funky little commission like the Carter/Baker one.

To prevent the counting of legal votes and be allowed to count illegal votes ,is a crime in Florida.

Jeb, are you in jail yet?

"There’s no doubt in my mind that Al Gore was elected president."

Why now indeed?

Look what has happened to our country since 2001.

Just shaking my head.

Well, if he 'fell off the wagon', forget the pretzels,lets hope he gets all the liquor he wants!

Cirrhosis of the liver! That's a possibility.

At last, proof that Jimmeh Cahtuh is a delusional fool and need not be taken seriously ever again.

just more lip flapping from the past spouting the same ole crap...why even post this useless shit of information???by the way the traffic gridlog out of texas is the same snafu as the flooding in NO...whats gonna happen when lovely rita bombs ashore and the fools are stuck on the road???I say we pay Chavez to off the current administration...read or hear his speech at the UN...at least he can offer new and somewhat progressive ideas for the world,unlike his worst friend condi and her buddies...maybe fema should wait to burn the food and go ahead and send that stuff to texas...maybe they should give JACK the choice of a 6 or 10 up the backside...take the 6 and tell us the truth or the 10 and squeal like the stuck pig that you are...wait...budget cuts...for starters...how about a 50% reduction in the salaries of (as bush loves to say) the folks... in congress...wanna help hurricane victims boys?,how about 100hrs of community service work in NO... required of everyone in the current administration...yada...yada...yada...as rawstory has reported...only 2 DEMS ARE GONNA JOIN THE ANTIWAR RALLY SAT...diebold stole BOTH sides...I STILL SAY...Katrina and now Rita are the beginning of the pay back for what BUSH HAS DONE........

wait till the twins win 2016 ...picture the bush family compound on jupiter island (2020)...wake up in the morning ,go down for a coffee ...only to to see another family member (and being so polite ...family trait) you say "good morning president bush" to which you recieve a reply "good morning president bush" and then somebody else comes down from their bedroom only to repeat "good morning president bush", "good morning president bush" ah bugger it you see my point.

Is Carter kidding? What possible motive can he have for delcaring a criminal act occured years ago in Florida when there is one happening right now in Iraq?

Carter, until you call for justice for the deaths of thousands of Iraqi civilians and the almost two thousand American soldiers, you are wasting your breath and my time.

LOL, MMIIXX stop! You'll give me nightmares :shiver:

All 67 Florida counties recounted - the law under Florida's Constitution - just not multiple times so Democrat election workers and their army of lawyers and press accomplices could not eat enough chads, create enough votes, spin enough lies, call the election early enough in the Panhandle, rally enough protestors behind Jesse Jackson, disenfranchise enough absentee military ballots to steal the election.

Florida voters were so ''outraged'' by election 2000 they elected Jeb Bush and Katherine Harris, and sent Bob Butterworth, Al Gore's Florida 2000 campaign manager packing, in 2002.

You really do need to move on or put down those destructive pens. We're at war and your continuing efforts to undermine the authority of our legitimately ELECTED President is a threat to our national security, and a damn insult to the majority of your neighbors!

This isn't a game. You should thank your lucky stars that you have a CinC that takes his job, and this enemy seriously - and will not play games with our national security for the sake of power, vanity and vengeance - and if you think he would - "projection" - look it up, please, and pass it on to your peers.

No. Never. It was not the will of the people of Florida that put him in office in 2000. THAT will never change, no matter how many lies are told!

Reality? You are one delusional piece of shit ! Legitimately elected President? All 67 counties re-counted? He was never elected - he was appointed by the right-wing Supreme Court. All counties were not finished counting - the Supreme Court stopped the counting, with a big help of stonewalling by the GOP, Katherine Harris and bro' Jeb. You neglected to say that 80% of the recount was done by the MACHINES. Yeah, the Repubs were elected in 2002, but with the help of Diebold, ES & S, and of course Triad. Wonder what this world would be like without the Diebolds to count the votes and the" Reality" types to push their line of Bullshit. If there ever is an investigation into these corrupt machines, you will have to eat your words. Until then, I guess you will just have to be satisfied with the taste of Bush feces.

The reptilians and the Illuminati are in control.
Accept it and prepare to relinquish your rights
and life.

But if you saw Indendence Day the movie,
you know that there's a spirit of WIN and
DESTROY that's hanging over these bastards.

And they know it. Useless inflatable puppets
like GWB are aware of this. The next round
of 'leaders' will be interesting.

"create your own REALITY" says CinC that takes his job, and this enemy seriously ,the only thing the CinC takes seriously is the coke that goes up his nose.

PS what fricken enemy is it today ,hope they don't have WMD's as well,LOL we of the world laugh at your CinC and only wish he had the balls to sit down and answer some questions re:2000 SCOTUS,911,ToraBora,Iraq,WMD's,Katrina ....without a script without a bump on his back and most importantly WITHOUT TELLING LIES.

God Bless President Carter. He worked for (created?) Habitat for Humanity. Reagan made speeches for millions of dollars.
Although I think his Baker comission

"create your own REALITY" this guy seem to disagree with you also but what the hay he's only a Colonel in the USAAF

Can you imagine what would have happened if George W. Bush had been President during the Cuban missile Crisis”

#21 Re: Carter's part in the Baker Commission was dissapointing. Sorry. I was looking up the spelling in my hard copy Webster's

And 5 Supreme Idiots stopped the counting before many counties were done, about 20. And at least one counties re-count totals were not included when Harris certified the election results, MY COUNTY, which in 2004, went almost 2 to 1 against bush.

Stopped the counting because it would cause bush 'irreparable harm', meaning he would LOSE!

But this is peanuts, compared to what he has done since stealing the presidency.

He is NOT my President.

I was dissapointed too Colleen, I always liked him and his brother, Billy, I think his name was.

Whats he doing with the likes of Baker?

Carter's obviously been duped by smiling cobra Baker. Heck, he is quite old. So he comes around 5 years late and speaks out on behalf of Gore. Maybe he'll denounce his own commission's findings in 2010 to the flaming, bankrupt husk that was America.

We certainly can't put any stock in Carter, nor in Russ Feingold after the Roberts vote today. How stupid are Democrats? Don't they get it yet? Feingold and the other two Dems who voted for this guy are traitors to America and their party.

Nana #24

He is no ones president. His position in history will be described as that of a charlatan and stooge who was the frontman for an insidious cancer which had silently and compeletly creeped into the political machinations of a gullible America. The only question remaining is how brief is the life of this disease, and more importantly how far we will we go to eradicate it and insure its complete and abosolute remission?

Revolution.....? Count me in!

The picture of Carter and Baker tells a lot. I don't question Carter's basic goodness, but doesn't he know that Baker is a key - maybe the key figure in installing an illegitimate executive branch? That Baker's history - even prior to 2000 -shows clearly that his primary interest is in using dishonesty and sleaze to undermine representative democracy and the electoral system and smooth the way for the "success" of a minority political viewpoint?

The man should be ostracized, not legitimized. I guess Carter can serve as a representation of what the hell is wrong with the Democrats, although he says a few more interesting things than most. But it all amounts to the same thing - too late, too little, and just not "getting" the real democracy thing. (Meanwhile having a few laughs - heh heh - with the likes of Baker.)

I don't understand any of this, McCain kissing up to Bush after the black child Rove lie. Clinton kissing up to Bush (makes me sick) and now Carter, ohmigod....what does this evil regime have on these people. Have they all sold their soul or so afraid of Rove they have become 'pretenders' as the so called President. M4 aka: Alice N. Wunderland

Count me in too Sam! In the future I will look at things much different, much less trusting, so I guess lessons have been learned, but oh the cost.

MMIIXX, OMG, scary doesn't begin to describe it! It will be awhile before I get that vision out of my head. Col Bowman is right, it is treason, and they are all guilty.

MERIFOUR three answers to your comment #29

1) $
2) $
3) $

I think it's called 'two-faced back-stabbing', maybe it's a political prerequisite. I don't think they see things the way most do.

Will America ever get a real leader? Who will win the race next? Hillary Clinton? If so, you might has well let George Bush in the office for EIGHT more years, because the Clinton and Bush families are all buddy-buddy.

#31 of course...and here I was thinking something more sinister with my tin foil hat on...LOL.
P.S. Anyone familiar with Bonus 3392-181. Very interesting story if true (Note: you MUST have a tin foil hat to check this out).

It's late, so I'll try to be brief:

"Reality", I wish it were possible to somehow get the passionate, good hearted - but tragically misinformed hard-core Bushitters to sniff the smelling salts instead of our Little Lord Fauntleroy's skidmarked boxers, but alas, there may be no hope for you at all.

By now, any Republican with ANY connection with things like critical thought or deductive reasoning has come to realize that this sick, twisted, pampered, alcoholic, sociopathic APPOINTEE to the Presidency has caused an incredible amount of damage to our country.

They finally know that Bush is -at best- an embarassment, and at worst, every bit the puppet of the most craven, immoral, bloodthirsty-yet cowardly and shameless group of race-baiting thieves the MAJORITY OF VOTERS SAID THEY WERE IN THE LAST 2 ELECTIONS!!

I hope to see them all on trial at the Hague as the vile war criminals they are. I hate them and what they've done to my America.

Comment #35-

Well said! I'll second your thoughts.

Carter is stepping up. Give him credit, he has had the most hair throughout the Bush masquerade. Few people of his stature have spoken up as he has.

God is NOT an Asshole

{ed note: multiple post, deleted.}

{ed note: Multiple post, deleted}

Sorry about the multiple posts. I don't know how that happened. {ed note: It's ok! Multiple posts have now been deleted. }

Sam and Nana,

"Revolution.....? Count me in!"

Go for it. It's a well known fact that a lot of us republicans have hunting weapons. Saturday night specials against rifles would be a slaughter. At least we won't be spending as much on welfare anymore.

I laugh at all your stupid conspiracy theories. Yeah, Diebold stole the election? Show me proof!!! Show me the phone records proving calls were made to the election machines telephone modems during the election. Put up or shut up!!!

One million black voters were disenfranchised in the 2000 election??? Maybe they were. But the spoilage rates were higher for white republicans and 50 times higher for black republicans in Florida. Where is your outcry about that? Liberals will disregard any facts you don't like.

Nonvoted Ballots and Discrimination in Florida
John R. Lott, Jr.
ABSTRACT
The report by the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights on the presidential vote in Florida during the 2000 general election presents two types of empirical evidence that African Americans were systematically denied the right to vote. To reach their conclusion that discrimination had occurred, the commission examined the impact of race on spoiled (or nonvoted) ballot rates as well as the impact of race on the exclusion of voters from eligibility lists because of
past felony criminal records. Using extremely detailed cross-sectional data collected by USA Today and less detailed panel data, I find that to the extent that these types of regressions measure discrimination, it is African-American Republicans who were harmed. Indeed, the nonvoted ballot rate for white Republicans is higher than for white or African-American
Democrats. The data also indicate that nonvoted ballot rates are highest in those counties where Democrats are the election supervisors...
http://www.johnrlott.com...ott_on_Fla_2000_Elec.pdf

We are not a government "of the people, by the people and for the people" any longer. Our country is run by big business and a handful of the elite who cheat, lie, and even kill to get what they want. Wake up, America, we're the walking dumb who have let our way of life slip between our fingers in the name of security. What would our founding fathers think of us now? Everyone who has a mind that is capable of thinking recognizes that the American people do not elect Presidents now-the Electoral College does and it can be bought!

White Republicans? A "nonvoted ballot rate?" What in the world is that? Is it being suggested that Democratic election officials in Florida failed to count Republican votes? That absentee ballots were thrown out? That business executives were turned away from the polls?

What kind of gobbledegook is this? Have any white Republicans complained that their votes weren't counted? There's concrete evidence of black voters being disenfranchised in the last two presidential elections...in sufficient numbers to have changed the outcome in both cases (separate and apart from the electronic fraud). There's no evidence that white voters were similarly cheated, except this strange analysis by John Lott.

Is he Trent Lott's brother? What are his qualifications for arriving at conclusions that are in direct contrast to the evidence?

Jimmy Carter is right, of course. Al Gore won the 2000 election. We already knew that, in fact. What we don't know (maybe Mr. Carter can educate us) is why he came out with this statement after publicly declaring that James Baker, who more than any single person was responsible for stopping the recount in Florida, is his "favorite Republican?" If Gore won the election, and Baker was instrumental in preventing Gore from taking office, how can Baker be anything but a pariah and a threat to our democratic system?

I like Jimmy Carter. But I think he's having too many senior moments to remain in public life.

Robert,

It's easy. They compared voter spoilage in each precinct. Say that a precint had a medium income of $115,000 that voted heavily for Bush and had a rejection rate of 7%. Compare that to a heavily democratic precinct that had a rejection rate of 5%. It's all in the report if you read it. It's amazing that this gobbledegook is rubbish but the same sort of gobblegook is taken as gosple when it comes to election polls and your false belief that Bush stole the election.

http://www.usatoday.com/...ewer-voting-errors_x.htm

The primary cause of voter error in Florida in 2000 was poor ballot design, a USA TODAY study found. Problems were concentrated in counties that listed the 10 presidential candidates on two pages or in two columns. That prompted thousands of voters to vote twice — once on each page or once in each column.

Who designed those ballots? Who approved the ballots for use??? Well, who cares that democrats did!!! It's all Bush's fault!!!

This is exactly why John Roberts should not be appointed to the Supreme Court in any capacity..he was also in league with Jeb Bush (legal consultant) in the theft of the 2000 presidential elections....no medal of freedom, his reward will be a lifetime appointment as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court.....(but he isn't a right wing idealogue, just ask him..) Hey, didn't I read somewhere that Patrick Fitzgerald was also looking into the theft of the 2000 election, along with Plamegate..? Maybe John Roberts will be impeached for high crimes before he is sworn in...?

How easily you folks forget. Many a Democrat was happy that Al Gore was not president in 2000 because 911 would have still happened and then the Clinton 8 years previous would have been heavily investigated - What did they know? When did they know it? Why did they not get Laden when they had the chance? How come they could not stop it? It would have been a bloody mess.

I have been thinking about something and you guys are going to fall on the floor laughing hysterically. Why does Bush keep using Clinton and his dad in these relief efforts? Why does Clinton then criticize the younger Bush? Why does Bush keep Clinton around? Why doesn't Bush lash out at his critics?

I know the answer - Bush is a Uniter, Clinton is a divider. The Democrats are dividers. John Roberts is so much more brilliant than any of the senators yet some Demo senators would not vote for him. Why? They are dividers.

I know his is a uniter because of Bob Bullock in Texas. This man was a partisan Democrat yet he liked Bush and respected him. That was in Texas though, where Democrats are more like Republicans, where Bush was a uniter.

Do you guys realize just how important Texas is in the national landscape?

Bush, Delay, Cheney (at one time), 28% of our gas comes from Texas refineries, 42% of our natural gas comes from Texas, and the price of oil is based on West Texas Sweet Crude.

I agree with you guys on one point - Carter is our best "EX" president.

What I like about this post is that someone like Rush or Sean said you guys are still fighting the 2000 election. And they are right.

Amerikkka....... the United Snakes

U R ..........Fucked! wake Up!

It was downhill from Reagan and Arnie is on the way.

Now a goon called Dubya.....What more can I say

they say people get the leader they deserve
Amrerican dream? really? - what a nerve!

Docile as sheep instead of being outraged
At 911 terror that was definatly staged

To Satan you did bow

and it's time for judgement now

Keep munching on your supersize me feast
your boys creating mayhem in the middle east

Out from chaos will come good?
Only in your Hollywood

Made a show of democracy and with aplomb
But the truth is out on votescam.com
.

One more thing, Gore lost the election in 2000 becuase he could not win his own state of TN with it's 11 electoral votes. He could have won his state if he didn't change. He had to change for a national election. What change am I talking about?

If he would have stayed pro-life and pro-guns which are two reasons he was elected in his state. His state no longer knew him because he had changed from a conservative-Democrat to a liberal environmental wacko Democrat. Don't get me wrong. I love Gore and Clinton. I love Kennedy, Schumer, Leahy, Hilary, and all of the other leftist Dems. I loved Daschle and kind of miss him

NuclearChemist,
...USA Today is owned by Gannett Company, a CJR conglomerate.....follow the money

Time: late fall of 2003, I had made up my mind not to vote. I 'opted out' returned a 'request for a donation' to my state Democratic party and told them to take me off their mailing list. I told them what I thought of everything happening in our govt.
(I became an independment when Perot came on the scene because it was obvious to me that both parties were corrupt and we needed a three party system.) When the 2000 selection happened I was so upset that I donated to the Democrats and viola became a Democrat I guess.

I got a personal hand written letter from the chairman (yes I did verify his handwriting) asking me to please reconsider. I was really struck by the fact they he would write to me, a nobody, and ask me to change my mind and vote. I rarely, if ever, get responses anymore to my letters to Congress.
His letter did not change my mind.

One day a young man, very young, early twenties,
called me and asked if I would vote. I ranted and raved about our corrupt system and he listened politely and then said that he had just had the same conversation with his mother. He was so sweet and so involved and really truly believed in our system. He asked me please, at least just vote for president. I finally agreed that I would. The Deibold info was alreading being talked about but I voted anyway, for my young friend and because I promised him I would. The rest is history.

I do not blame bushco for everything but see them as a powerful tool for a cabal that is Global. I believe both parties are corrupt, a new third party was a threat to the status quo. I do not see the world in black and white. I believe the LIES are always peppered with a bit of truth so that the unsuspecting public can zero in on what is true and swallow the whole whale. The key in discernment. I try to read between the line/lies and somehow get to the real truth.

I can see the direction this Country is heading and I am heartbroken. I knew it was coming. I saw the Gulf War of '91 as the beginning of something much bigger and supported the impeachment of '41 during that time. Henry Gonzales of the Senate banking Committee was calling for impeachment and I was all over it. He was a voice crying in the wilderness.

I see Conyers as the new voice of the people. A few others in Congress are standing up, a brave and couragous stand in lieu of the fact that they have all done deeds they need to be ashamed of. Congress sold out the people by giving Bush their power and we now live in a Country I don't even recognize anymore. Can 'we the people' destroy the monster we have created...it has many tentacles. Time will tell.

..NuclearChemist said on 9/23/2005 @ 8:02am "The primary cause of voter error in Florida in 2000 was poor ballot design, a USA TODAY study found. ...
Who designed those ballots? Who approved the ballots for use??? Well, who cares that democrats did!!!"

Incidentally, your last sentence is a question, so it should end with a "?".

Teresa Lapore (sp) was a Republican who registered as a Democrat to get the job. This is evidenced by the fact that after the 2000 election she changed her registration back to Republican. She was nothing but a snake in the grass.

Similarly there were/are Democrats in Ohio on the elections boards who take their orders from Republicans. They even told the Ohio Democratic Party they wouldn't take orders from Dems.

Seems the Republicans like to masquerade as Dems to screw up our political system. I wonder if they did that in the Iowa caucuses to prevent Howard Dean from winning.

#50 - Henry Gonzales of the Senate banking Committee was calling for impeachment and I was all over it. He was a voice crying in the wilderness.

God, I loved the man. Day after day he stood up there, often to an empty or practically empty chamber, doggedly telling the country what was happening. Yes, we didn't catch it then (and many didn't want to know, I'm afraid) and are paying the consequences.

NUKE

You have some very strange thought processes for a scientist.
I don't own a gun. I don't fear you or your gun. Lies and indifference frighten me.

And there you go changing the subject again. Five supreme court idiots stopped the legal counting of votes in Florida. Not all counties did a recount, for example Duval, check it out with Corinne Brown (D-FL)
Harris certified the election results before the LEGAL recount was complete. These are the facts.

bush was selected, not elected.

FYI - this is not new for Carter. I've seen him say the 2000 election was wrongly awarded before.

And one more FYI: while the Supreme Court can be said to have handed the election to Bush in intent, they did not do so in fact - the case they reversed was only for a recount of four counties, and even had they been counted, a later recount funded by the media showed, Gore would still have lost.

Other scenarios would have seen Gore win, including a staewide count-all-the-votes recount, or of course if the screwup on the 'butterfly ballot' that caused so many Gore voters to vote for Buchanan not happened.

Nu chem is probably KKKrove's Johnny Gosh

Nana,

No, Bush was elected. An auditing firm went back and did the recount. In using the most liberal standard, the Palm Beach method and the hanging chad count, Bush won. Kerry only won (by 3 votes) if clean punches were counted. Later on, the overvotes were checked (which Kerry or the Florida Supreme court hadn't requested). Kerry would have won with the most liberal standard, and the Palm Beach standard. If the normal standard or the clean ballot was used, Bush won. And that's not even taking into account the Lame Stream Media telling Floridians that the polls were closed an hour early in the panhandle disenfranchising tens of thousands of Bush voters.

At some point you got to have a reality check and say sooooooooo wut. The regulars around here know both elections were rigged. The Bushit administration thinks they are smarter than us. That's right no stutter. The cheating lying losers are still in the White House and still have pushed though all their Bushit legislation and rule all three branches of government. Add in the fact they run the corporately owned mass media and that at least half this country believes their BUSHIT, and what you get the worst US government in history with no immediate end or court proceedings in site. Thanks Jimmy.

Markh,

"Teresa Lapore (sp) was a Republican who registered as a Democrat to get the job. This is evidenced by the fact that after the 2000 election she changed her registration back to Republican. She was nothing but a snake in the grass."

Excuse me??? The last thing I heard, ballots have to be approved by the local board. Are you saying that they were all republicans too???

"Similarly there were/are Democrats in Ohio on the elections boards who take their orders from Republicans. They even told the Ohio Democratic Party they wouldn't take orders from Dems."

Oh, so they wouldn't take orders to stuff the ballots so these locally elected officials had to be republicans. How sad for you that your pathetic conspiracy theories have no truth to them.

How about this for a theory? Americans are tired of liberals failed policies, liberals having no sense of direction to take this country, and liberals are yellow bellied cowards when it comes to taking on militant islam.

Paul and Nuclear Chemist -

Y'all sure spend a lot of time hanging here for people trying to convince us that we don't matter.

Who are y'all REALLY trying to convince?

;-)

> Who are y'all REALLY trying to convince?

We are just making fun of you!!!!!!!

If Gore and Bush tied, the Republican state house would have given it to Bush. If it went to the US House, the Republicans would have given it to Bush.

SCOTUS got involved because the Florida court was changing election rules on how to count ballots after an election. We have rules and laws to handle this kind of stuff.

NuclearChemist is correct in all of his statements.

Do you guys think this has never happened before?

1876 - Hayes vs Tilden

THE CRITICS CHARGE: In this election, critics say the system failed because even though Samuel Tilden had a substantial lead over Rutherford B. Hayes in the popular vote, he still lost by one electoral vote.

BACKGROUND: On election night, it appeared that Tilden would win. He led the popular vote 51% to 48%, and led in the Electoral College vote 184-165 with 20 votes still undecided. Tilden only needed one vote to win; Hayes needed all 20. Both parties claimed the disputed votes (Florida's 4 votes, Louisiana's 8 votes, South Carolina's 7 votes, and 1 of Oregon's 3 votes). An Electoral Commission was set up by Congress, who awarded all 20 votes, and the presidency, to Hayes

WHY THE ELECTORAL COLLEGE SHOULDN'T BE BLAMED: The 1876 election was filled with so many irregularities, that blaming the Electoral College seems ridiculous. First off, Colorado had just joined the union and decided they didn't have enough money to hold an election so their legislature just sent three electoral votes for Hayes. Secondly, fraud abounded in the states of Florida, Louisiana, and South Carolina. Democrats intimidated blacks in order to keep them from voting, and Republicans, backed by armed troops, got as many blacks as possible to vote, as many times as they could. It's impossible to say who would have legitimately won these states, but most scholars agree Tilden would have won Louisiana and Florida, and Hayes would have won South Carolina. Lastly, the Electoral Commission set up by Congress is not part of the normal Electoral College system. It was composed of 8 Republicans and 7 Democrats who voted along political lines to give all the votes to Hayes. It turns out that the Republicans had secretly made a deal with the Democrats. If the Democrats would accept the results of the Electoral Commission, the Republicans would end Reconstruction in the South.

CONCLUSION: To say the Electoral College failed in 1876 is incorrect, because without the rampant fraud in the South OR without a biased Electoral Commission that voted on partisan lines the popular vote winner, Tilden, probably would have won the electoral vote as well.

Nuclear, you are so full of crap, I bet your eyes are brown.

And it was Gore that was cheated out of the presidency in 2000.

Paul - Well now THAT's productive *L*

Um..then why aren't your posts funny?

(Actually I think you're here because we're a lot more fun than those stuffy ol' right wing sites - face it, you just like our company

Wow...sounds like you've got a whole lot of time on your hands with a whole lot of nothing to do.

Hey, I've got an idea - why don't you make yourself useful, prove you're not just paying lip service - join up and go to Iraq! Let us know where you are, we'll send you care packages and letters.

At the very least, get a hobby - the V.A. sure could use some volunteers.

Right now you're just taking up space, and from everything we've witnessed, it sure looks like you'd rather just sit on your butt and bitch than be a part of the solution.

GET BUSY!!!

> Hey, I've got an idea - why don't you make yourself useful, prove you're not just paying lip service - join up and go to Iraq! Let us know where you are, we'll send you care packages and letters.

How many times do I have to answer this - I am too old for the military ya dork.

> it sure looks like you'd rather just sit on your butt and bitch than be a part of the solution.

I am part of the solution. My guys won!

Why do you hate America?

# 56 - First of all Nukular - Kerry did not run against Bush in 2000 - It was Gore, you f#*ing idiot, and yes, he was appointed to office by the Republican Supreme Court. The votes were never fully re-counted, thanks to the stonewalling of Harris and the intervention of the Supremes and you neglect to say that 80% of the votes in Florida were counted with the Diebold, Triad and ES&S machines.

Yes, Henry Gonzales was a truly great man that went unapppreciated in his day. I think Reps. Conyers and McKinney and a few others (mostly Congressional Black Caucus members interestingly) are Henry's worthy successors. Let's support them with all our hearts.

Paul, you are too old to serve in Iraq? Bullshit, they just took a retired Captain, age 71, into active service. A desk job, no doubt, but he is serving, nevertheless. You are merely a coward hiding behind his computer, probably afraid to confront anyone face to face. I've seen many of them like you, big mouths from a distance, but chicken shits up close. I served two deployments in Nam and you sir, are probably one of the types who would have been fragged by his own men.

Robert,

Yeah, I know it was Gore and not Kerry, it was a misprint. I'm sure you've never done that. What does it matter what type of machines they were counted on. Don't you think he would have won by a larger amount if the fix was in? The votes were never recounted?
http://en.wikipedia.org/...sidential_election,_2000

After the election, USA Today, the Miami Herald, and Knight Ridder commissioned accounting firm BDO Seidman to count undervotes, that is, ballots which did not register any vote when counted by machine. BDO Seidman's results, reported in USA Today [6], show that under the strictest standard, where only a cleanly punched ballot with a fully removed chad was counted, Gore won by three votes. Under all other standards, Bush won, with Bush's margin increasing as looser standards were used. The standards considered by BDO Seidman were:

* Lenient standard. Any alteration in a chad, ranging from a dimple to a full punch, counts as a vote. By this standard, Bush won by 1,665 votes.
* Palm Beach standard. A dimple is counted as a vote if other races on the same ballot show dimples as well. By this standard, Bush won by 884 votes.
* Two-corner standard. A chad with two or more corners removed is counted as a vote. This is the most common standard in use. By this standard, Bush won by 363 votes.
* Strict standard. Only a fully removed chad counts as a vote. By this standard, Gore won by 3 votes.

Including overvotes in the above totals for undervotes gives different margins of victory:

* Lenient standard. Gore by 332 votes.
* Palm Beach standard. Gore by 242 votes.
* Two-corner standard. Bush by 407 votes.
* Strict standard. Bush by 152 votes.

"Nothing in all the world, is more dangerous than sincere ignorance, and conscientious stupidity".

Martin Luther King, Jr.

Nana,

"Nuclear, you are so full of crap, I bet your eyes are brown."

Sorry, you are wrong again but what else is new?

"Who are y'all REALLY trying to convince?"

No one, I just enjoy seeing extreme parania and delusional fantasies up close without getting slimed by it. Sort of like when I'm driving my Durango on the highway and see a loser with a Kerry-Edwards bumper sticker on their car and give them the 4 finger salute as I drive by. They usually give me the one finger salute in return

(Actually I think you're here because we're a lot more fun than those stuffy ol' right wing sites - face it, you just like our company

Well, that is true, some of your outlandish beliefs make me laugh.

And about going to Iraq. Sorry, I already put my 8 years in doing dangerous duty for my country. If you guys feal so strongly against the war, why don't you become human shields for the militant islamist in Iraq. I'm sure that if you tell them what you are there for that they won't strap a bomb to you or cut your head off (as long as you are cute).

"Nothing in all the world, is more dangerous than sincere ignorance, and conscientious stupidity".

Then you guys are very very dangerous.

SO LET ME GET THIS STRAIGHT. IN 2000, GORE GOT MORE VOTES AND WON. IN 2004 BUSH GOT MORE VOTES AND LOST. GOTCHA!

Let me see if I have this straight, now. We're asked to "suppose" Republican districts had a 7% spoilage rate and Democratic districts a 5% rate. We aren't told that actually happened...we're just asked to suppose it did.

O.K., I'll play along. If we're talking about spoiled ballots, that means votes that were actually CAST. If these imaginary numbers are correct, it would suggest that among votes CAST, Gore (or are we talking about Kerry here?) actually had a net benefit of 2% (7 minus 5). To repeat, this probably never happened, but for the sake of argument let's allow that it might have. Trent Lott's brother wouldn't like, would he?

But how does this account for the tens of thousands of minority voters WHO NEVER CAST BALLOTS IN THE FIRST PLACE? What about the deliberate disqualification of African Americans based on mistaken identity with one-time felons? What about the threats against older blacks that the F.B.I. would be notified if they voted? How many thousands of minority voters were suddenly stricken from the voter rolls for no good reason?

Certainly it was more than a 2% difference in spoiled ballots, even assuming these hypothetical numbers are accurate. Certainly it was enough for Gore to have carried Florida easily. Jimmy Carter had no trouble figuring that out...he's just had a much harder time figuring out what a son-of-a-bitch James Baker is. Maybe someday we'll understand why.

Nook

Keep checking your eye color, i think your funny too.

But then, i'm easily amused.

Watch what you say Nutjob Mo Fos
The whole system is about to come down around your
ears, I wouldn't say too much more

Please left kook fringe, keep fighting the 2000 and 2004 elections, while we continue to win in 2006 and 2008.

When you all are dead, dead and gone, they’ll be one more Republican to carry on...and the history books will record that the President of the United States was George W. Bush in 2000 and again in 2004.

I like Baker. He was on the Board of my company at the time of the 2000 election. He was brilliant in Florida. He kept Gore from slealing the election!

Carter? I like Carter too. He helped turn the entire south into Republicans. And then came Reagan, who put the nail on the coffin. Loved Reagan! A man that gave freedom to millions. Just ask the other nations who got away from the grip of Communism. They loved Reagan too.

I know how you kooks and kommunist feel about Reagan!

Mr. Nuke - let's forget 2000 and 2004, because if there ever is an investigation by Congress ( a real investigation) I feel that many of you right wingers will be in for a very unpleasant surprise. My question to you, Mr. All-Knowing, is simply this -We tin-foil hat wearers believe that the Diebold, Triad and ES&S machines are totally corrupt, already pre-set with Republicans as their default. No matter what the vote total actually is, the Repugs will end up with approximately 51.3% or more. If these machines are not corrupt, why then is Diebold, etc. fighting to prevent paper printouts and an open source code? Why are all the Rebublican hierarchy so totally against investigations into these machines and any hint of a paper printout? I mean, my God man, if the machines are clean, why block an investigation. Could it be that, oh no, God forbid, they actually are corrupt? Why the stonewalling?

I'm open to different views ,I'm not American so not repub or dem.So can somebody compile a list of Bush accomplishment so I can have both side of the arguments to consider.Thanks in advance for your help in this endeavor.

PS Dont include winning elections as an achievement in this list.
mick

RLM,

"But how does this account for the tens of thousands of minority voters WHO NEVER CAST BALLOTS IN THE FIRST PLACE? What about the deliberate disqualification of African Americans based on mistaken identity with one-time felons? What about the threats against older blacks that the F.B.I. would be notified if they voted? How many thousands of minority voters were suddenly stricken from the voter rolls for no good reason?"

How about Clinton waiving FBI background checks on hundred of thousands aliens applying for citizenship in 2000 just so they could get a chance to vote for a demorat in the election??? I wonder if Atta would have gotten his democratic voting card if he would have applied for citizenship.

so if bush wasnt really elected - can he run again?

PLEASE!

Really - this blog is so funny! You kooks on the left really are losing it! The next election is a given!

'Still voting democrat? You must be stuck on STUPID!'

– isn’t it amazing how the media tried to portray the ressponse to Katrina as a failed Bush something or other, yet all the residents know it was the Mayor and Governor’s fault. They knew that the feds had been funding levy maintenance for years, but the money was squandered on mardi-gras fountains (and probably some politicians bar-bill). Its also become painfully obvious that 60 years of liberal government rule has fostered a class of people so poor, indignant, and helpless, that their post-Katrina antics disgusted the world, disgraced an entire race, and embarrassed the greatest nation on earth. Ted Kennedy, Barbara Boxer, Harry Reid, Patrick Lahey, Joe Biden, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi, Hillary Clinton – you idiots better all be taking notes! And the Mayor and Governor of Louisiana ought to both be put before a judge and jury, tried for gross negligence and reckless homicide, and locked up for good!

I can remember being absolutely disgusted with Bill Clinton every day he was in power. But i still referred to him as "President" - due respect.

One more thing - Bette Midler - prepare to go the way of the Dixie Chics, BS and Hanoi Jane!

Robert,

"No matter what the vote total actually is, the Repugs will end up with approximately 51.3% or more."

So, you are telling me that when democrats test these machines prior to the elction and place in 1,000 ballots for Kerry, the results come out 513 for Bush and 487 for Kerry??? And the election officials don't think anything is wrong???

Keep that tin hat on my friend

RE: Bush accomplishments. Heres my top 10.
1) Was loyal to his wife and family
2) Was loyal to his God and Christain beliefs
3) Free'd Afghanistan
4) Free'd Iraq
5) Surrounded Iran with Democracy
6) US unemployment under 5.6%
7) Stood up to Osama Bin Laden
8) Promoted minorities in his administration
9) Created two Cat 5 hurricanes and steered them to New Orleans
10) Ignored Mother Sheehan

Paul,

Carter was an idiot. He was personable but didn't know squat about running the government. High unemployment, high interest rates and he left our guys in Iran. Hell, even rabbits didn't like him (republican disclosere: Actually that killer rabbit was trained by Karl Rove to attack Jimmy)

Nick,

You asked

Politics

1. His leadership resulted in Republican gains in the House and Senate, solidifying Republican control of both houses of Congress and the presidency.
2. Signed an EO enforcing the Supreme Court's Beck decision regarding union dues being used for political campaigns against individual's wishes.

Second Amendment

1. Ordered Attorney General Ashcroft to formally notify the Supreme Court that the OFFICIAL U.S. government position on the 2nd Amendment is that it supports INDIVIDUAL rights to own firearms, and is NOT a Leftist-imagined "collective" right.
2. Signed TWO bills into law that arm our pilots with handguns in the cockpit.
3. Currently pushing for full immunity from lawsuits for our national gun manufacturers.
4. *See Globalization & Internationalism.

Judiciary & Tort Reform

1. Is urging federal liability reform to eliminate frivolous lawsuits.
2. Killed the liberal ABA's unconstitutional role in vetting federal judges. The Senate is supposed to advise and consent, not the ABA.
3. Is nominating strong, conservative judges to the judiciary.
4. Supports class action reform bill which limits lawyer fees so that more settlement money goes to victims.

Health

1. Strengthen the National Health Service Corps to put more physicians in the neediest areas, and make its scholarship funds tax-free.
2. Double the research budget of the National Institutes of Health.

Government Reform

1. Improved government efficiency by putting hundreds of thousands of jobs put up for bid. This weakens public-sector unions and cuts undeserved pay raises.
2. Initiated review of all federal agencies with the goal of eliminating federal jobs (completed September 2003) in an effort to reduce the size of the federal government while increasing private sector jobs.
3. Led the most extensive reorganization the Federal bureaucracy in over 50 years: After 9/11, condensed 20+ overlapping agencies and their intelligence sectors into one agency, the Department of Homeland Security.*
4. Ordered each agency to draft a five-year plan to restructure itself, with fewer managers.
5. Converted federal service contracts to performance-based contracts wherever possible so that the contractor has measurable performance goals

Globalization & Internationalism

1. Challenged the United Nations to live up to their responsibilities and not become another League of Nations (in other words, showed the UN to be completely irrelevant).
2. Killed U.S. involvement in the International Criminal Court.
3. Told the United Nations we weren't interested in their plans for gun control (i.e., the International Ban on Small Arms Trafficking Treaty).*
4. The only President since the founding of the UN to essentially tell that organization it is irrelevant. He said: "The conduct of the Iraqi regime is a threat to the authority of the United Nations, and a threat to peace. Iraq has answered a decade of UN demands with a decade of defiance. All the world now faces a test, and the United Nations a difficult and defining moment. Are Security Council resolutions to be honored and enforced, or cast aside without consequence? Will the United Nations serve the purpose of its founding, or will it be irrelevant?" We all know the outcome and the answer.

efense & Foreign Policy

1. Successfully executed two wars in the aftermath of 9/11/01: Afghanistan and Iraq. 50 million people who had lived under tyrannical regimes now live in freedom.
2. Saddam Hussein is now in prison. His two murderous sons are dead. All but a handful of the regime's senior members were killed or captured.
3. Leader by leader and member by member, al Maida is being hunted down in dozens of countries around the world. Of the senior al Qaeda leaders, operational managers, and key facilitators the U.S. Government has been tracking, nearly two-thirds have been taken into custody or killed. The detentions or deaths of senior al Qaeda leaders, including Khalid Shaykh Muhammad, the mastermind of 9/11, and Muhammad Atef, Osama bin Laden's second-in-command until his death in late 2001, have been important in the War on Terror.
4. Disarmed Libya of its chemical, nuclear and biological WMD's without bribes or bloodshed.
5. Continues to execute the War On Terror, getting worldwide cooperation to track funds/terrorists. Has cut off much of the terrorists' funding, and captured or killed many key leaders of the al Qaeda network.
6. Initiated a comprehensive review of our military, which was completed just prior to 9/11/01, and which accurately reported that ASYMMETRICAL WARFARE capabilities were critical in the 21st Century.
7. Killed the old US/Soviet Union ABM Treaty that was preventing the U.S. from deploying our ABM defenses.
8. Has been one of the strongest, if not THE strongest friend Israel has ever hand in the U.S. presidency.
9. Part of the coalition for an Israeli/Palestinian "Roadmap to Peace," along with Great Britain, Russia and the EU.
10. Pushed through THREE raises for our military. Increased military pay by more than $1 billion a year.
11. Signed the LARGEST nuclear arms reduction in world history with Russia.
12. Started withdrawing our troops from Bosnia, and has announced withdrawal of our troops from Germany and the Korean DMZ.
13. Prohibited putting U.S. troops under U.N. command.
14. Paid back UN dues only in return for reforms and reduction of U.S. share of the costs.
15. Earmarked at least 20 percent of the Defense procurement budget for next-generation weaponry.
16. Increased defense research and development spending by at least $20 billion from fiscal 2002 to 2006.
17. Ordered a comprehensive review of military weapons and strategy.
18. Ordered a review of overseas deployments.
19. Ordered renovation of military housing. The military has already upgraded about 10 percent of its inventory and expects to modernize 76,000 additional homes this year.
20. Is working to tighten restrictions on military-technology exports.
21. Brought back our EP-3 intel plane and crew from China without any bribes or bloodshed.

Environment & Energy

1. Killed the Kyoto Global Warming Treaty.
2. Submitted a comprehensive Energy Plan (awaits Congressional action). The plan works to develop cleaner technology, produce more natural gas here at home, make America less dependent on foreign sources of energy, improve national grid, etc.
3. Established a $10 million grant program to promote private conservation initiatives.
4. Significantly eased field-testing controls of genetically engineered crops.
5. Changed parts of the Forestry Management Act to allow necessary cleanup of the national forests in order to reduce fire danger.
6. Part of national forests cleanup: Restricted judicial challenges (based on the Endangered Species Act and other challenges), and removed the need for an Environmental Impact Statement before removing fuels/logging to reduce fire danger.
7. Killed Clinton's CO2 rules that were choking off all of the electricity surplus to California.
8. Provided matching grants for state programs that help private landowners protect rare species.

Education & Employment Training

1. Signed the No Child Left Behind Act, delivering the most dramatic education reforms in a generation (challenging the soft bigotry of low expectations). The very liberal California Teachers union is currently running radio ads against the accountability provisions of this Act.
2. Announced "Jobs for the 21st Century," a comprehensive plan to better prepare workers for jobs in the new millennium by strengthening post-secondary education and job training, and by improving high school education.
3. Is working to provide vouchers to low-income students in persistently failing schools to help with costs of attending private schools. (Blocked in the Senate.)
4. Requires annual reading and math tests in grades three through eight.
5. Requires states to participate in the National Assessment of Education Progress, or an equivalent program, to establish a national benchmark for academic performance.
6. Requires school-by-school accountability report cards.
7. Established a $2.4 billion fund to help states implement teacher accountability systems.
8. Increased funding for the Troops-to-Teachers program, which recruits former military personnel to become teachers.

Budget, Taxes & Economy

1. Signed two income tax cuts, one of which was the largest dollar-value tax cut in world history.
2. Supports permanent elimination of the death tax.
3. Turned around an inherited economy that was in recession, and deeply shocked as a result of the 9/11 attacks.
4. Is seeking legislation to amend the Constitution to give the president line-item veto authority.
5. In process of permanently eliminating IRS marriage penalty.
6. Increased small business incentives to expand and to hire new people.
7. Initiated discussion on privatizing Social Security and individual investment accounts.
8. Killed Clinton's "ergonomic" rules that OSHA was about to implement; rules would have shut down every home business in America.
9. Passed tough new laws to hold corporate criminals to account as a result of corporate scandals.
10. Reduced taxes on dividends and capital gains.
11. Signed trade promotion authority.
12. Reduced and is working to ultimately eliminate the estate tax for family farms and ranches.
13. Fight Europe's ban on importing biotech crops from the United States.
14. Exempt food from unilateral trade sanctions and embargoes.
15. Provided $20 million to states to help people with disabilities work from home.
16. Created a fund to encourage technologies that help the disabled.
17. Increased the annual contribution limit on Education IRA's from $500 to $2,000 per child.
18. Make permanent the $5,000 adoption tax credit and provide $1 billion over five years to increase the credit to $10,000.
19. Grant a complete tax exemption for prepaid or college tuition savings plans.
20. Reduced H1B visas from a high of 195,000 per year to 66,000 per year.

Can somebody please compile the same list for Clinton and/or Carter?

thanks in advance.

Can't, because Carter was an absolute imbecile, and Clinton lied his ass off. Just get over the election bull and accept the fact that a majority of this country voted for Bush in both elections. 8 years of Clinton just about ruined this country, and facilitated the 9/11 attacks. As soon as the truth comes to light about 'Able Danger', we'll see how bad Clinton screwed us. But of course the left will deny it all. It pisses me off that when it comes time to get to work and protect ourselves from fundementalists, the left is still wrapped up about themselves. This is war people, and I am sick and tired of the rhetoric of the left (Pelosi, Sheehan, Carter, Clinton, et al) playing partisan ploitics and putting our country in danger. You all need to get your collective heads out of your asses and wake up to reality.

Please don't feed the trolls, folks. They will dry up and blow away.

Hey Nuclear,

His name is mick you moron not nick. And that was the biggest bullshit list I've ever seen!

OH YEAH....TAX CUTS.....FOR ALL THE RICH CRONIES AND THEIR FAT CATS....YAHOO!!!!

You pathetic moron, every elected democrat especially Howard Dean has done more accomplishments then that. Lets see someone else tear your shit up.

You're the same idiots who believe muslims are going to take over the united states, and overthrow everything. Preaching to the wrong crowd, cowboy.

Doug E.

I agree Doug E, it's not a very impressive list. It just proves he has done more harm than good, in 5 years.

NUKE your typing speed is much faster than mine ,thanks for your considered response.Will start looking into your points.

VETO LONGWENE
Sorry your points are hardly "achievements" even if true.

Reality claims: " All 67 Florida counties recounted- ..."

When one begins a post with such a well-known falsehood, no one is going to take you seriously.

Yes, I know that's what James Baker told you. He lied. I'm sorry--it's shameful that a former Secretary of State should have put his name on a lie-- but that's so.

Nassau County actually *discarded* the recount because they didn't like the fact that Gore came up with 40 more ballots. I haven't bothered to list all the examples of counties that simply broke the law, but the level of lawlessness by Florida Republicans was eye-opening.

Nuclearchemist, John Lott has the same reputation among statisticians that Lysenko has among biologists. His "work" is simply laughable to anyone who understands what the word "multicollinearity" means.

I'm sorry for you, but you have thrown in with professional liars. It's disturbing that America has fallen so low that power can only be held through lies.

Not even clever lies. Just lies, repeated over and over, and persuading no one with even basic statistical training.

I don't expect to persuade you. People like yourself will only be persuaded when the consequences of this corrupt and incompetent Administration inconvenience you personally.

That's coming.

#81 Do you ever read anything but your own writings? I know, since you are on this blog all the time, that you have read about all the tests run on these machines and how just one hacker can manipulate 100,000 votes in 60 seconds with no trace. You also know that these machines are totally controlled by the corporations that meke them, which just happens to be Republican conglomerates. As for the machines used during the 2004 elections, they were never investigated by anyone. They were locked down in Ohio and kept from inspections by Sec. of State Blackwell. But why am I telling you this shit when we all know that you already know this. You are merely here on this blog, along with that coward Paul, to try and stir up the emotions of those who really care about this country. For someone who is going out of his was to appear intelligent, you have destroyed that illusion, with your unwavering worship of the imbecile you call your President. I can understand admiring Cheney for his intelligence, but I can find no redeeming qualities for Bush. He's an incompetent puppet, who can't even read his well prepared script without screwing up!

Passed new laws that got his corporate buddies in ENRON off you mean, HOLD CORPORATE CRIMINALS ACCOUNTABLE?!?!??

MCI Worldcom collapsed....NEWFLASH bud!

Half these talking points are complete SOAKED LIES!

Doug E.

Comment #86
9/11 was an inside job. Or of course you could believe the official FEMA investigation. FEMA is not an investigative organization and they weren't allowed at ground zero or even the site where the Shrub missile hit the pentagon until sometime the following month. According to FEMA, building #7 of the WTC collapsed for "unknown reason." This is the only steel building before and after 9/11 to ever collapse from a fire (which was contained on one of the floors).

3 good things about Clinton:

Enacted the Roadless Rule Law protecting 58 million acres of wildlands until the Bushit administration reversed this law. This is only one of 400 environmental laws and standards the Bushit administration reversed.

He left our country at a surplus instead of in debt.

He created a new political standard as defining a BJ as not a sexual act. If the spouse accepts this one, maybe she could be the next president?

I challege you to come up with one thing the Bushit Administration did that was good for this country or the world? Remember that rigging elections, attacking a country based on lies, and backstabbing the American people doesn't count.

To NOT IN THE BEATLES Paul: You are such a bastard loser. The only one who would believe your defenses of Bushit leadership on this site is a dumbass like you. The day will come when the lying murderers in the Bushit administration are held accountable in a court of law for their actions. While their lawyers may try and take the defense that their power is implied, implied power from stolen elections is not implied. Furthermore, it is not a justification for vulgar abuses of this power. I suppose if it comes down to jury of peers and fckheads like you are the peers, the BUSHITS don't have to worry after all. AND you aren't funny.

Where do these trolls come from? Seriously. To defend two stolen elections, a moronic leader who can't utter coherent sentences without being coached, a war of choice based on deliberate lies and mismanaged from the outset, scandals and conflicts of interest as far as the eye can see, and a collection of sycophants chosen for their willingness to never criticize the moron in charge, is enough to make any reasonable person ask,

"Why would someone embarrass himself this way?"

Nuclear,I read most of what you posted,from the sounds of it you will probably be going to fight in your presidents war or don't you believe in him enough,I would also like to ask you how you like the gas prices and if it were you sitting in New Orleans after the hurricane if you would still be kissing the ground that Dubya struts on?,I know alot of republicans that say they are disgusted with this last performance,Iraq war was unwarranted and I suggest that you do alot more truth searching than just spouting off, I also suggest you look at Bush's ratings now, and wonder if there were so many loyal republicans to put him in office where are they now when his ratings are headed south?I like so many others are tired of the lies and secrecy of this administration,in time the truth will come out and then we can repair what has been done, 1)try to pay down deficit
2)bring our troops home
3)catch OSAMA????
4)regulate gas&oil prices
5)investigate 911 fully (so families have truth&closure)
6)repair foreign relations
7)Unite this country (the way our forefathers had intended it to be)
Care for our senior citizens with proper health insurance
9)Moniter our borders
10)Safeguard our enviroment from big business
11)Invest in our childrens educations
12)Lock up crooked politicians

Plowboy,

How are you going to regulate gas prices that are bought on the open market? Open Alaska for more drilling? Ease environmental laws to make it easier to build refineries that we haven't built for many years?

How are you going to reunite the country when you can't win any elections? Even IF you do, look at the standards you have set... Any little old mistake by your president and we will call for impeachment. We will never believe anything that person does because we will just say.... "follow the money", we get to claim that your president had ties to any scandal. If one person dies during a hurricane, we get to blame your president for incompetence.

Lock up crooked politicians... who will you guys vote for then since most democrats will be in prison?

Did you hear about the New Orleans official who was busted stealing supplies meant for the survivors? He had 4 truckloads of suplies hidden in his basement. No, this wasn't the same demoratic senator who had money hidden in his freezer.

Hey Nuclear Korean Style,
Bravo!!! It's good to see that NOT IN THE BEATLES Paul is preaching to the likes of your Dumbass. Defender of the President are you. OK fckface any little ole mistake huh? huh?? In case you didn't notice you moron, this site in not democrat vs republican it's about right vs wrong. It just so happens that the Republican party makes up the majority in Congress, the judiciary, and of coarse the self appointed king and legend in his own time, yo main man George Dubya. The reason the president took flack for Katrina is 3 years ago when it was widely publicized about the levy situation, the federal government was alerted it must make repairs to protect New Orleans from an impending disaster. Dubya cut the necessary aid to New Oleans to dump it into his war in Iraq. Then there's the swift boat speed of FEMA to let the poor, the old, the sick, and the young to die a slow death without food, water, and necessary medication. So which of the 400 environmental laws and standards that the Bushit administration have reversed do you justify??? Dumbass. Does the Patriot Act and the homeland Security Act make you feel more pro Bushit? Asshole. Maybe if police kicked your door in, beat the sht out of you, and then detained you indefinetely because of so called ties to terrorists you might disagree. Do you bend over in the morning and receive a nuclear misile up your ace blasting HAIL TO THE CHIEF in the backround justifying the starwars nuclear proliferation the Bushit admininstration war mongers lead as a remedy to world terrorism? Maybe if you were in the Twin Towers on 9/11 you might have a different opinion of how good we perform botched war games here in the states. Only losers with a plastic superiority complex who take 0 accountability or for their actions can appreciate lying murderers like Bush and his Bushit administration the can only cheat to make up the difference in votes to an steal an election of the free. Go guard an oil well in Iraq you radioactive wastoid.

Wow, y'all had a busy day while I was gone!

Okay, I just got in and it's late, so let me just say -

All you Bush people - thanks for stopping by, glad we got your attention, it's about damn time - now stick around, maybe you'll learn something.

And I'm sure all of you will be big enough to stop back by and admit you were wrong once the criminal investigations are finished - won't you?

BTW, you might want to go ahead and start collecting bail and showing support for your neo-con heros - Frist and Delay are getting nervous these days, and Rove's not too happy either. As far as Bush, Cheney, and Rumsfeld - we're working on it, and we're much closer than you think..

Oh, I almost forgot -

Paul - cluck cluck cluck!

NuclearChemist - cluck cluck cluck!

Y'all let me know when you're ready for action instead of words, I'd be willing to help you find a place to volunteer where you can actually DO SOMETHING.

Grizzly Bear Dancer,

Man, you are an ignorant f*ck. You say that "The reason the president took flack for Katrina is 3 years ago when it was widely publicized about the levy situation, the federal government was alerted it must make repairs to protect New Orleans from an impending disaster." Hey Dumbass, portions of the new levee failed, not the stuff scheduled for repair. If Bush didn't cut the money to the corrupt New Orleans polititians (who were already under federal indictment prior to Katrina for skimming money) the levees still would have failed.

"Then there's the swift boat speed of FEMA to let the poor, the old, the sick, and the young to die a slow death without food, water, and necessary medication."

Oh, let's compare hurricane Floyd with Katrina:
From newsmax: A full three weeks after the storm had passed, Rev. Jesse Jackson interviewed Witt on his CNN show "Both Sides Now" - and complained that flood victims were still suffering from a "misery index."

"It seemed there was preparation for Hurricane Floyd, but then came Flood Floyd," Jackson began. "Bridges are overwhelmed, levees are overwhelmed, whole town's under water . . . [it's] an awesome scene of tragedy. So there's a great misery index in North Carolina."

Witt explained that the storm's devastation was unparalleled, prompting Jackson to ask what was being done for the thousands of families left homeless by Floyd.

Though nearly a month had passed since the storm first hit, Witt said his agency was just beginning to address the problem.

"We're starting to move the camper trailers in," he explained. "It's been so wet it's been difficult to get things in there, but now it's going to be moving very quickly. And I think you're going to see a --- I think the people there will see a big difference over within this next weekend."

The Clinton FEMA Director came in for more criticism during another CNN interview - this time for failing to do a better job with Hurricane Floyd evacuation efforts.

"I hate to do this to you so early in the morning," host Carol Lin began apologetically.

"But I want to show you some video of Hurricane Floyd. This was the evacuation scene out of Florida last year. And you can recall, some three-million people in three different states were hitting the highways, jammed back-to-back trying to get away from the danger. And much of the local as well as the federal government was criticized for this backup. What is being done this year to prevent something like this from happening again, keeping people out of harm's way?"

Witt explained that evacuation problems were to be expected under such dire conditions. "It was very unusual when you had multiple states all evacuating at the same time," he told CNN. "It was the first time that that has happened that way and it did clog the highways."

While Witt's reputation remained largely intact after the Floyd fiasco, more than a few of the storm's thousands of flood victims complained that the agency had failed them.

"I had heard FEMA was going to be downtown, so I got up early to get down there and get in line," one North Carolina woman told the Associated Press, recounting her ordeal months after Floyd had passed. "The time came and nobody was there, just all these people waiting in line."

FEMA's sorry performance left her overwrought.

So, lets see, a MONTH for FEMA to get to Floyds victims and a week to get everyone out from Katrina...

"Then there's the swift boat speed of FEMA to let the poor, the old, the sick, and the young to die a slow death without food, water, and necessary medication."

Well, may if the demoratic State officials would have let food and water in to those at the convention center and the Superbowl, there wouldn't be so much hunger. Your most idiotic statement was "this site in not democrat vs republican it's about right vs wrong" Dude, I have to throw the bullsh*t flag at that statement. Show me the condemnation of the liberal officials in New Orleans that failed to bus the poor and the needy out of N.O., for not supplying food, water, medicine and port a johns at the superdome, for not following their Emergency Plan for a hurricane, for allowing 500 buses that could have been used to evacuate people to get flooded out.
This site has NOTHING to do with right vs wrong, it's all about Bush and conservative bashing. You have absolutely no problem with election fraud when it is done by democrats but cry about Bush stealing elections without any proof. I can show you proof (arrests/convictions) of illegal aliens voting, dead people voting, fictional people being signed up for crack cocaine, vote buying. Show me the arrests of Diebold people for election fraud... What, you can't??? OK, show me witnesses that somebody was hacking into election machines. Show me phone records that somebody during the elections was calling the machine telephone modems... Dude, show me PROOF!

kestrelbrighteyes,

I've already spent 8 years in the military performing hazardous duty. What have you done for your country other than b*tching and moaning about it?

Nuclear,First and foremost,I commend you on serving in the armed forces,I have alot of friends that have done the same and still don't feel that Iraq was a threat to our safety.Show me the proof that they were,I will not degrade myself nor you by namecalling,I simply want the truth from our elected officials Democrat or Republican.The thing I can't quite grasp is you seem quite intelligent and yet you have you're mind closed as to what is going on,l would advise focusing on both sides of the aisle not just one.The truth will come out and I'm sure we will all see how we have been duped.Democrats and Republicans alike,we are all working to support this country WE ALL DESERVE HONEST ANSWERS TO OUR QUESTIONS!

101 Nuke

You went to war for 8 years? So you shouldn't have any problems sending your children over to Iraq.
Just have their blood and urine tested right away, when they get back, don't listen to the Pentagon. Time is very important, it must be done within months.

And this would be a good time for you to encourage your leaders to send their children too, bush, Congress people, all of them. And please, give them the same medical advice i have given you ,about your children.

Oh, and if your kids get up enough nerve to go, i'll pray that your grandchildren are born without birth defects. Why should they suffer for grandpa's politics.

Hey Grizzly Bear Dancer -

Not sure why you wrote "NOT IN THE BEATLES Paul..."

Do I get to you? You sure have some serious issues. You should get some counseling!

Speaking of the Beatles, saw "Coldplay" last night in Dallas. Just before the band came on stage, they played the Beatles "Tomorrow Never Knows" and at the end when they were waving goodbye and bowing, they played the Beatles "Goodnight" from the White Album.

Great concert! Chris Martin did not get political and keep mentioning "Dallas, USA." He did tell a story and mentioned the French and said "I know you guys hate the French."

He did an acoustic set and sang "Ring of Fire" by Johnny Cash. Chris sounded just like him. He said that Phil Collins is a cool singer but Johnny is cooler.

Plowboy,

The weapons inspectors were a joke. I mean they tried but Saddam was playing games with us. They wouldn't have found what they did if Saddam's son-in-law hadn't told us where they were hidden. The inspectors had no knowledge that they existed. Saddam even admited that they had something like 10,000 gallons (not sure of the exact amount) of VX nerve gas. Saddam was only able to prove that half that amount was destroyed. This from the guy that tried to assisinate a President.

All that said, was he an immediate threat to us? I doubt that. He may have been one of the biggest supporters of terrorism in the middle east (per President Clinton) but I don't think we had anything to fear from him. I still think what Bush did was correct though. I think Bush also knew that Iraq wasn't a big threat. He decided to try a novel approach to fight militant islam... long term. He just used WMD as an excuse. If he can bring democracy to the middle east, I believe that that will significantly cut support for radical islam. Even in Faluja, over 70% of the people (sunni's) have registered to vote. If people in Iraq can support democracy, how long do you think it will be before Iranians demand democracy? Democratic changes are even happening in other mid east countries. Slowly but headed in the right direction. If Bush can bring democracy to the middle least like Reagun did to the countries under the iron curtain, he will go down in history as one of the greatest presidents ever. I know that liberals in here will deride that statement since their loathing for Bush transends anything that would benefit the United States. They would rather hope for a loss in Iraq rather than a vicory for America (and Bush).

:) I KNEW THIS "ALL ALONG", but nevertheless this is VERY SHOCKING, and UPSETTING NEWS TO ME!!!! I, as a PROUD-LIBERAL-PROGRESSIVE-DEMOCRAT, (and A RATIONAL-ATHEIST, on CRAZY religious matters), and INDEED IN FAVOR of THOMAS JEFFFERSON'S--VITAL- "WALL of SEPARATION BETWEEN STATE and church", (and CIVIL LIBERTIES ,and CIVIL RIGHTS, in general)--I.E. :ALL THAT THIS PRESENT PUTRID, DISGUSTING, ASSHOLE, GEORGE W. BUSH administration, (and their NEO CON REPUBLICAN COHORTS IN BOTH HOUSES of CONGRESS) is against: I FERVANTLY HOPE THAT "WE THE (RATIONAL!) PEOPLE CAN "TAKE BACK OUR SECULAR NATION"!!!!!!--Not only for our country, alone,: but for OUR PLANET'S FUTURE, INDEED, TOO!!!! BUSH and CHENY (BOTH) SHOULD BE UTTERALLY IMPEACHED, AND REMOVED FROM OFFICE FORTH WIT!!!!!! --OR THEY (BOTH) SHOULD DO "WHAT (a previous ASSHOLE President: RICHARD M. NIXON DID): RESIGN, IN (THIS TIME--E V E N M O R E UTTER-DISCRACE)!!-AND THE SOONER, THE BETTER, FOR OUR NATION, and OUR PLANET!!!! Sincerely, Bill Wise.

For Mr. NuclearChemist: Hatred of Bush isn't the issue. The real question is non-partisan, and not even ideologically based:

"How can something called democracy (a purely Western and European concept) be inculcated into a country that has always been run by rival tribes under the guidance of religious militants?"

Whether Bush gets blame or credit is a United States-based argument. But Iraq isn't the United States. Iraq is Iraq, a sovereign country. We invaded them. We had no right to do that, except under the credo "Might makes right." Now, Bush's defenders, including yourself, would have us believe that the (fanciful) goal of creating a Western-style democracy in the Bedouian desert, a goal articulated only after the other excuses (WMD, uranium from Niger, and a Saddam-Osama link) all had been exposed as lies, somehow excuses a failed war policy.

If it does, then Caesar, Attila the Hun, Genghis Khan, Napoleon, and Hitler have been redeemed by history.

Chemistryboy:People like you are so closed minded. No matter how smart they may appear, they really stupid because they are blinded by their own uneducated beliefs and or jaded opinions to include something called the truth. You say you want proof? Then why are you discounting all the factual evidence of electronic fraud and humanistic fraud in the 4 swing states that were rigged in the 2004 presidential election? Did you have to be in the room with the computer that hacked into the Ohio voting tabulator to see the fraud taking place dumbass? Are you still waiting for a noble cause from the Bushit administration to clairify why Iraq was attacked because lies about ties to alkeida and WMD does not provide justification for war or continued occupation. Downing Street minutes is an interesting piece of art work. Now maybe you accept the official FEMA investigation of 911 however i on the other hand do not need a pencil to connect the dots. Hint: Cause a little chaos and disorder the use it to: attack an Arab country rich in OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOil. Then change things around the campfire. Patriot Act. Homeland Security Act. Then change everything in favor of big business in this country against the common American. Now open your eyes and tell me which of the 400 environmental laws and standards the Bushit administration reversed you think are justified smartass.

Paul: thanks for the concert review.

Before U respond chemboy, FYI FEMA said in their official report that building #7 of the World Trade Towers collapsed for "unknown reasons." And as far as the passenger jet that hit the Pentagon??? Do a little research know it all. It was a missile. However FEMA who wasn't allowed at GROUND ZERO, didn't investigate the PENTAGON until sometime in OCTOBER> There is also a lot of info about the Passenger Jet that was shot down by the order of Former Haliberton Executive Dick Cheney. We know who won all the no bid oil and related product contracts in IRAQ. Right?

Saddam-Osama linked to bush drinking and snorting coke (only in bush limited mind).The last line in the paragraph (linked) below has got to make you wonder about this mans reasoning skills...the costly mistakes of the past ...what was that the 52 warnings the BUSH admin ignored prior to 911?
Bush said he knows millions of Americans (actually, a majority) no longer agree with him. "Listen, there are differences of opinion about the way forward. I understand that. Some Americans want us to withdraw our troops so that we can escape the violence. I recognize their good intentions, but their position is wrong. Withdrawing our troops would make the world more dangerous and make America less safe. To leave Iraq now would be to repeat the costly mistakes of the past that led to the attacks of September the 11th, 2001."

Grizzly no it was a plane guy.Body of plane only 13 foot or so in diameter.Careful of the pentagon ,they have all the sercurity videos ,great way to suck people in ,then show videos ,discrediting all, twin towers,building #7 etc.
Pentagon is BS central, maybe a trap...

People like our chemistry student say "Show us the proof." But when we call for an independent investigation (of elections, financial malfeasance, Katrina, and assorted Bush administration scandals), the Bush response is, "We'll investigate this ourselves."

In other words, Mr. Chemistry, your president is a fox who wants to investigate a chicken coop. How will anything be proven under such circumstances?

Let's see how objective you are. Would you agree that a truly independent (non-partisan, as distinct from bi-partisan) commission should be empaneled to investigate the last two presidential elections? Or would that be a "liberal" plot?

Sorry, don't mean to be sarcastic to truly decent American citisins. Tell u the truth, "the learning curve" (politically, economically, FINANCIALLY --- consider the FED who won it, and the IRS the Illegal Revenue Scam; and idiologically) is indeed in a mess!

Still, it's damn good that a gentleman like Mr. Jimmy "Peanuts" Carter did wake some u guys at last.

George W. Bush, W for Wicked; Warmonger; Whaco, is NOT your PRESIENT. He's only the (P)resident of the 1600th PennsylvaniLIE Avenue in D.C. as Mr. Scolnick of Chicage has called. "G" is NOT the Commander-in-Chief of the U.S. Armed Robbers, OOps! Forces I mean. He is the COMANDEERED(by Satan/Lucifer/Iblis)-in-CHEAT.

I pray to Allah The One and ONLY God the Almighty, The Peerless that U all be saved. The O.L. and Texas disaster were mere Allah's slap in the hands of the IGNORANTs among u. Wait for "THE BIG ONE" when the cracies of the NeoCon (Con = bandits etc) really attack and even microNUKE Iran and/or Syria! May Allah send a 10 on Richter Scale TREMOR in Wasington area (that include MD and VA) IF, repeat, IF GWB and his Satanic critters do attack those nations! Amen. Allah has answered my PLEA on D-3 on ATTACK ON IRAQ two years ago, Allah did sent the SAND STORM that the U.S. and Brits troops and their war machines were unable to proceed from beyond the border of Kuwait.

Wish I could fly to Tehran to defend the country, though I am a Sunni Muslim.

U people would better read THE INSEEN HANDS, and wake up.

Regards,

Joe

Dear editor,

I just posted my comments, yet there are lots of TYPOES. Sorry.

Last I checked, during the time of the elections, the Supreme court was 4 Reps, 4 Dems and a swing voter. Anyways, the recounting was only done in selected counties in Florida, and after multiple recounts they stopped it. Also it should be noted that MANY military absentee votes were not counted in California, and more then one DEAD person voted in Ohio during 2000 and 2004. How can the DEAD vote? And why would they vote Democrat? Also, another point of interest, there was PROVEN attempts at Democratic voter fraud in Ohio, and I bet many that were not caught. People voting multiple times, provisional ballot my ass. Show me some ID and vote in your district. If you dont know what district you are in, and where your voting stations are, you are to DUMB to vote.

Jimmy Carter needs to go back to the peanut farm and get his nose out of politics. I may not always agree that GWB is following the right track. I am not even sure that he has a track, but I'll be damned if I am gonna see Al 'the screamer' Gore in the WH. Please do not believe that he would have made a bit of difference with 9/11, it was his bosses administration that put up the road blocks in the Intelligents agencies that caused the problems determining that this was gonna happen. Please also recall that GWB was only in office for about umm 9 months when it happened. Have you ever seen anything the Federal government has its hands on get changed in 9 months? I do not think so. Maybe talked about, but never done. To much red tape and BS.

We need to start over. Elect a new party into office. The Dems are to far left and the Reps are moving that way everyday. The Reps are further left then the Dems where in the days of JFK.

A nice Independent president is what we need. Get rid of all this PArtisan BS in congress, senate and MAKE the Supreme Court stop making liberal laws from the bench.

What we need is to have Jimmy Carter run for President with Bill Clinton as his VP. The Democrats will take the white house next time around if they have powerful candidates. That would be their best shot.

:angry: i'd be pretty angry if somebody took something away from me that wasn't really theirs... you should kick his butt! lol ( just kidding) seriously though...jimmy... you should have been president bcus you won, but you were cheated.....george w. bush is an ass...and so is his son....i'm sry that u lost!