The Able Danger coverup begins:

Pentagon moves to BLOCK all investigations into Able Danger

Hahahahaha now the Pentagon is trying to block THE SENATE AND ALL CHAIRMEN from talking about Able Danger or 9/11.....

Can you say "neocon coverup"?

I wonder just how damaging our relationship with say israel and turkey is.....that they don't want to talk about it. Oh yes, lets talk about it. We're going to FORCE you to talk about it, ya Pentagon of crooks!

>8-O
Doug E.

Loved your interview with Stephanie - hope things work out with the MSM.

This is another great article with excellent links - Brad's The Man!

I can't believe this is all happening --- a real nightmare. I just hope it's true that the rats are starting to jump ship. Maybe the core is falling apart .. it will eventually.

Hope this isn't too OT .. it is about the MEDIA

Happy Media Accountability Day! --- Project Censored offers a list of stories the mainstream missed

By Molly Ivins

The No. 1 pick by Project Censored this year should more than make the media the blink --- it is a much-needed deep whiff of ammonia smelling salts for the comatose: Bush Administration Moves to Eliminate Open Government.

Gene Robertson, a great news editor, says we tend to miss the stories that seep and creep, the ones whose effects are cumulative, not abrupt. This administration has drastically changed the rules on Freedom of Information Act requests; has changed laws that restrict public access to federal records, mostly by expanding the national security classification; operates in secret under the Patriot Act; and consistently refuses to provide information to Congress and the Government Accountability Office. The cumulative total effect is horrifying.

No. 2: Iraq Coverage --- faulted for failure to report the results of the two battles for Fallujah and the civilian death toll. The civilian death toll story is hard to get --- accurate numbers nowhere --- but the humanitarian disaster in Fallujah comes with impeccable sources.

No. 3: Distorted Election Coverage. Faulting the study that caused most of the corporate media to dismiss the discrepancy between exit polls and the vote tally; and the still-contentious question of whether the vote in Ohio needed closer examination.

No. 4: Surveillance Society Quietly Moves In. It's another seep 'n' creep story, where the cumulative effect should send us all shrieking into the streets --- the Patriot Act, the quiet resurrection of the MATRIX program, the REAL ID Act, which passed without debate as an amendment to an emergency spending bill funding troops in Afghanistan and Iraq.

**MORE**

Re: No. 4 (in comment #3) --- the REAL ID ACT --- The Soviet Socialization I mentioned in another thread. The END OF AMERICA ???

Larisa Alexandrovna of RAW STORY on Real ID...Uh, oh. (Brad Show Archive)

Dems locked out of debate on sweeping and controversial REAL ID Act Raw Story Article by Larisa Alexandrovna

Listen to Brad's Interview with Larisa about the REAL ID ACT

Excellent link, Kira, to the Top 10 list. It just makes me sick to my stomach.

The MSN is shameful. THEY are responsible for allowing and covering up for most of the stuff going on. If the average American, plopped down in front of MSN at night, would be afforded real news.....we UNDOUBTEDLY would not be in the boat we are now. Hence, they are right up there with Bush and Cheney on the fault scale, in my mind. America will never forgive them and they will ride off into the sunset, as the internet takes over with REAL news and we are forced back to the pre-cable ways of spreading the news by word-of-mouth. MSN - see ya, wouldn't wanna be ya. You let us all down.

Ahhh, Brad, your article made my coffee taste better this morn, just the right amount of sweetness.

Pastor Disaster! LOL

Hey Brad, WinterPatriot -

Looks like somebody's added a buncha spam to the original "6 or 7" Pastor thread.

As a Canadian, it never ceases to amaze me at what is happening to the US election system. We vote on paper ballots, even for Federal Elections, and all votes get counted by about 10 in the evening. And ever ballot has a tear away receipt you get to keep in case you ever want to check your vote in the future. It can never be traced back to you, the individual, directly.

But my comment was meant to be about voter registration. Not sure how it works here in Canada for every citizen, but I know that when I get my income tax forms to fill out, there is a box I can check and then sign my name, which automatically registers me for all elections for the year. It must also be connected to Social Security somehow for those who are 18 but don't work.

Either way, I can't imagine elections being any quicker, easier or more efficient.

Diebold stock fell 15% this morning, to a 28-month low.

Chart available here does not reflect today's
dive but you can eyeball it.

I've seen Brad post comics here a few times. These are some pretty good comics about Katrina. Sounds bad, but they are actually pretty good.

The receipt idea sounds great - does it show your choices?

Carter. I just can't get over it. He's been a hero to me (yes, I guess I can be pretty naive). Plaintively the sentimentalist inside me wonders "how could he betray us, betray Democracy, like this?"

I saw Carter on Leno one night and he was talking about his great freiendship with the Saudi princes. They let him borrow their house in aspen for skiing.His grandson asked him when he died would they still be able to use it.I never trusted him after that.If hes in the Saudis pocket he can't be for Democracy.I don't know but doesn't Carter also have something to do with Carlyle?I know I was very disappointed about him too. I also thought he had integrity,guess not!

Re: Carter's involvement with Saudis and the Election Commission

I refuse to believe (yet) that he's corrupt. However, we also saw the same kind of (apparent) naivete from Kerry and Gore, not to mention Dukakis, about how far the Repubs were willing to go to steal an election. Maybe it's just a simple disbelief that the Repubs have become so evil so fast.

Before the Neocons joined the Repubs, it could be argued, they hadn't begun the "Reagan Revolution" or the Newt Incident (Newt Gingrich becoming House Speaker and promoting his Contract on America).

Maybe they hadn't become so evil before George H.W. Bush got to the big-time. After all, to quote Bobcat Goldthwait, "George Bush IS the Devil."

In regard to the George H.W. Bush I'll (try to) quote a character from Casablanca, "I'd like to believe you killed someone. It's the romantic in me." The crazy conspiracy theory that GHW Bush was involved in the Kennedy assassination or that he may have had something to do with Hinkley's attempt on Reagan (a creation of mine) so he could take the presidency denied him by Reaganites could easily explain how things have gone to heck in a handbasket. Dubya is just "little Nicky", incompetent, but still trying to live up to the evilness of his papa.

Why is it that the entire Bush clan seems to end up arrested and getting their records expunged because of family connections? Wouldn't a rogues gallery of their mugshots be kinda nifty?

Rosencrantz,

Liberals in the states here want NO changes to the voting process. They don't want to disenfranchise the dead voters, illegal aliens or imaginary people. They believe that those people have a right to vote for democrats. They believe that liberals that have homes in two states should be able to vote twice. Once in each state. They believe that poor people should also be able to be rounded up like cattle, given $20 each to vote for a democrat. Also, election reform would make it hard for them to stuff the ballot box. That is why you see such hysterics in here. What chance will they have if they can't cheat???

NukeChemist (14),

I think you mean NEO CONSERVATIVES here... NOT liberals.

That must have been a typographical error on your part.

What can we say? The numbskull has spoken. #14

What you are saying people "believe" is utterly ridiculous. You have (obviously) NO idea what's going on here.

#14 doesn't WANT to know what's going on here. S/he has been working overtime trying to stir up trouble and really doesn't care about what we are talking about or our beliefs.

Kira,

I'll put my IQ up against yours any day of the week. As LTG Hororoe would say, "you are stuck on stupid.

Just because you try to perpetuate that buying votes and other voting fraud is just a myth concocted by republicans is funny.

http://www.belleville.co.../belleville/12021188.htm

EAST ST. LOUIS - Guilty verdicts were returned Wednesday against all five defendants in a month-old vote fraud trial...
...Tenpas declined to say if the FBI or his office is investigating the St. Clair County Democratic Central Committee, which supplied the money on Oct. 31 given to many of East St. Louis' 44 Democratic precinct committeemen.
It was Jimenez who tied former Belleville mayor Mark Kern to an audio tape that the agent testified contained the voice of Kern agreeing to buy votes while talking to McIntosh.

Tenpas said the same probe that led to five convictions at the vote fraud trial had led to guilty pleas from four other East St. Louis Democrats. Three of them testified for the prosecution during the vote fraud trial. Convicted of one count of conspiracy to commit vote fraud during the Nov. 2 election was Charlie Powell Jr., head of the city's powerful Democratic Central Committee and a former city council member. He faces five years in prison.

Convicted of conspiracy and vote fraud and facing five years on each count were:

• Kelvin Ellis, a Democratic precinct committeeman and former East St. Louis city government department head who served a federal prison term for extortion in the early 1990s.

• Yvette Johnson, secretary to the city Democratic organization.

• Democratic precinct committeemen Sheila Thomas and Jesse Lewis.

All except Ellis were allowed to remain free on previously posted recognizance bonds to await sentencing in about three months. Ellis, who has been held in custody and faces other charges in connection to another FBI probe of East St. Louis government, was returned to jail.

If you have such a high IQ, quit acting like a numbskull.

NuclearChemist - re: #14 - Following your logic, does that mean, since you are obviously NOT a liberal, that you are FOR election reform - that you WANT changes?

Okay sugarbritches, talk is cheap - time to put your "actions" where your "mouth" is - school is open, and let's start with open source code....(and do yourself a favor and TAKE NOTES, we have a lot to cover)

Unless, of course, you have ideas of your own???

Look, in my world you either accept something or you change it - are you gonna bitch or are you gonna WORK??

Kira,

How is stating the truth being a numbskull? Brad links and recommends a website that says liberal fraud is just a myth made up by us conservatives. How many of you actually believe that? Especially since a quick google search can show what a lie that is. Now, who's being brainwashed in here?

Brighteyes,

Yes, I want election reform!!! Paper trails and everything. I don't want ANY cheating by either party.

Because you didn't state the truth --- see your comment #14.

BTW --- give a link for your comment: "Brad links and recommends a website that says liberal fraud is just a myth made up by us conservatives."

Gotta say --- that's a REAL head scratcher.

Kira,

I can prove all of those types of fraud in #14. Not that you would care about that. Liberals and facts don't really go together.

"That is why you see such hysterics in here. What chance will they have if they can't cheat???"

Lie.

Oh, by the way --- I'd like to see you prove the other comments you made in #14, since you say you can.

Nuclearchemist, believe me I live near East St Louis and it is now one of the most corrupt and impoverished cities in the nation. It has been this way for at least 40 years. However I gaurantee that the vote fraud was not democrats stealing from republicans. It was democrats stealing from democrats. You will not find 1% of the population to be Republicans.

I know that it sounds like East St Louis is a rather large city because it share the name St Louis with the better know city across the Mississippi. In truth East St Louis only had a population of 31,542 as of the 2000 census and I am sure it has fallen since then.

Now that I have accepted that the Dems in East St Louis have been screwing the Dems in East St louis please document your proof that Dems elsewhere have been screwing republicans. Oh yes don't go back to the Nixon Kennedy election in 1962. I will also concede that. Lets get more current lets say at least since 1980.

re: Nuke #14

Okay, so some local election officials did some funny business
buying votes. How many votes are we talking about here, Nuke?
What's the connection to the DNC?

In 2004 35 million votes were counted on DRE machines that
are unauditable by design, and would have been outlawed if the
legislation to do so had not been sidetracked by Bob Ney and
Bill Frist and Tom DeLay.

All in all, 95 million votes were counted by Diebold and ES&S.

Now how many votes did you say were bought in E St. Louis?

Nuclearchemist,
You sighted in #14 "They believe that liberals that have homes in two states should be able to vote twice. Once in each state."

If I am not mistaken it was registered Republicans who overwelmingly had homes in two states. The Democrats are lucky if they can afford a home in one state. Certainly somebody being "given $20 each to vote for a democrat" cannot afford two homes.

Good one, Slicer!

Kira,

I'll use King County for some of my examples. The one in 2004 that gave the Democratic govenor a win by 133 votes... state wide. There were 3 recounts with the republican candidate in the lead after the first two recounts. In each recount more votes were "found" in the heavily democratic King county.

Precinct 1823 has 763 registered "Active" voters. 527 of them list as their residence address 500 4th Ave --- the King County Administration Building. 241 of these voters specifically note their apartment number as #553, which is the room number of the ... King County Records and Elections office.

http://www.soundpolitics...hives/003278.html#003278

As noted earlier, King County now reports a discrepancy of 3,539 more ballots counted than voters who voted. http://www.soundpolitics...hives/003346.html#003346

964 felons illegally voted in the election (Yeah, I know that wasn't in #14 but here is another method)
http://seattlepi.nwsourc.../220980_elections21.html

A Defiance County man has been arrested for allegedly filing more than 100 false voter registration forms in exchange for crack cocaine from a Toledo woman working on behalf of the NAACP’s voter registration drive. (I bet you didn't see this in Conyer's report did you??? I wonder why???)
http://www.toledoblade.c.../NEWS03/41018011/-1/NEWS

San Francisco Wants to Let Illegal Aliens Vote

Are the taxpayers of Democrat-run San Francisco stupid enough to let foreign lawbreakers vote? The girlie-men pols on the Board of Supervisors hope so.

Of course, masses of illegal aliens have voted illegally for years, to the delight of the likes of Al Gore, but now the kookiest city in America wants to decriminalize and even celebrate such actions.
The board voted 9-2 on Tuesday to place a charter amendment on the November ballot that would allow non-citizens, illegal as well as legal, to vote if they have children in the city's costly but failed government school monopoly.
http://www.newsmax.com/a...c/2004/7/21/165259.shtml

Rafael Velásquez, a Democratic candidate for Florida State House, who admits to having voted twice before he became a U.S. Citizen. He says he thought legal permanent residents were allowed to vote. (and you want him making laws???)
http://www.hispaniconlin...ct/Panorama/latinos.html

A report issued by the Justice Dept. in 2000 detailed a program run under the auspices of then Vice President Gore's "Reinventing Government" project to streamline government services. In a successful effort to clear a backlog of 1.2 million applicants, the INS engaged in this crash program called "Citizenship USA" to naturalize the immigrants between October 1995 and September 1996, not coincidentally, just in time for the presidential election. Douglas Farbrother, an official on Gore's team, is quoted in the report saying he "believed that the (citizenship) program had a deadline that was directly connected to the upcoming election." The Clinton administration bypassed the customary FBI background check for these new citizens demonstrating that creating new Democrat voters was a much higher priority than national security. It is estimated that tens of thousands of applications were approved without FBI review. The Justice Dept. report documented 1,000 cases in Miami; 1,300 cases in Chicago; and an astonishing 2,500 cases in Los Angeles.

The politicization of the INS continued in the 2000 election. As documented by journalist Joseph Farah ,on Nov. 6, 2000, (one day before the national election) the California Democratic Party sent thousands (upwards of 4 million by some estimates) of mailers out to immigrants who had citizenship requests before the INS. These non-citizens were informed, in both English and Spanish, that they were registered to vote as a Democrat and given a special identification card to "help...voting go more smoothly." Follow up investigations by the press pointed to the possible use of INS records to commit this massive voter fraud. How many of the recipients took advantage of the generous offer made by the Democrats is unknown, but based on the estimates it is quite possible that Gore's much touted popular vote win (by just under a million votes) could all be attributed to this scam alone. Flaws in the system continue to be used and expanded upon to give the Left an unfair advantage in elections and to undermine the legitimacy of our most fundamental American right.

Some 46,000 New Yorkers are registered to vote in both the city and Florida, a shocking finding that exposes both states to potential abuses that could alter the outcome of elections, a Daily News investigation shows.

Registering in two places is illegal in both states, but the massive snowbird scandal goes undetected because election officials don't check rolls across state lines. Of the 46,000 registered in both states, 68% are Democrats, 12% are Republicans and 16% didn't claim a party.
http://www.nydailynews.c.../front/story/224449p-192
807c.html

There, did I cover everything?

Slicer,

Too bad facts don't back up your belief.

Vote Hauling a Blight on State's Elections
Secretary of State Trey Grayson Tuesday, May 10, 2005

...Unfortunately, these successes are often overshadowed by recurring problems that we face with voter fraud. These problems threaten our very democracy. Recent headlines highlight the source of most voter fraud in our Commonwealth, a practice called “vote hauling”. Most Kentuckians associate this phrase with vote buying and do so with good reason – too many Kentucky politicians and cronies use vote hauling as a conduit for illegally purchasing votes...

U.S. 11th Circuit Court of Appeals
US v MCCRANIE

This case involves fraudulent voting activities. Specifically, these activities include vote buying, vote selling, multiple voting, and votes casts by felons and deceased voters.

Defendant Jackson Jones ("Jones"), sheriff of Dodge County, Georgia, is charged in Counts I and II of a federal indictment with two separate conspiracies to buy votes in...
http://caselaw.lp.findla...by=case&no=979358man

Here is a good article that documents voter fraud on both sides of the aisle. Like I said, I will at least admit that voter fraud goes on and I don't like it. Liberals think the ONLY fraud that happens is Diebold.

In a 1996 race in Dodge County, Ga., for example, 1,647 absentee ballots were cast, nearly 15 percent of the entire vote. One person testified that he had been given $4,000 in $20 bills for the sole purpose of paying vote "haulers" to buy absentee votes. There were other ways to get votes, and economic intimidation was always available. Employees in the county road department were required to work in the campaign of one candidate or lose their jobs. One of the most remarkable aspects of the Dodge County race was what occurred in the courthouse itself on Election Day. The two contesting camps set up tables at opposite ends of a hall in the courthouse, where they were openly bidding for votes, mostly absentee ballots. One disgusted magistrate who witnessed the episode referred to it as a "successful flea market." The cash payments --- the going rate was $20 per vote --- were usually distributed in a bathroom, or were given by the hauler on the drive home. An unrepentant bidder understood one truth: "Vote buying is a way of life in Dodge County."

http://www.soonerthought...com/archives/001328.html

Petgoat,

In the 2004 Washing State election, the Govenor won by around 130 votes. Bush won Florida by 500 votes. There's no way of determining how many illegal votes are counted but as you can see, it wouldn't take many.

About Diebold and others, I agree that paper trails must be used. But without proof that fraud was committed, it's just wishful thinking. Like I suggested before, get the phone records to the voting machine modems and see if there were any incoming phone calls during the election. Since I'm sure other people have thought of that, investigated it, found nothing, they want you guys still to maintain your rage that another election was "stolen". Even though it has been proven that even if the Supreme Court hadn't stopped the election in 2000, Bush still would have won. Don't you hate it when your myths bite the dust??? Sort of like another liberal myth... Over a million black voters were disenfranchised in Florida during the 2000 election.

NuclearChemist:

It has been proven (but not well publicized) that Al Gore would have won in 2000 if the votes had been counted as ordered by the Florida Supreme Court. THAT is a FACT!!!!

Ewastud,

No, that is a liberal myth. USA Today, Knight Ridder, and the Miami Herald hired an independant auditor to go over all the votes and complete the recount:

Newspapers' recount shows Bush prevailed
By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY

George W. Bush would have won a hand count of Florida's disputed ballots if the standard advocated by Al Gore had been used, the first full study of the ballots reveals. Bush would have won by 1,665 votes — more than triple his official 537-vote margin — if every dimple, hanging chad and mark on the ballots had been counted as votes, a USA TODAY/Miami Herald/Knight Ridder study shows. The study is the first comprehensive review of the 61,195 "undervote" ballots that were at the center of Florida's disputed presidential election.

The Florida Supreme Court ordered Dec. 8 that each of these ballots, which registered no presidential vote when run through counting machines, be examined by hand to determine whether a voter's intent could be discerned. On Dec. 9, the U.S. Supreme Court stopped the hand count before it was completed. That gave Bush Florida's 25 electoral votes, one more than he needed to win the presidency.

USA TODAY, The Miami Herald and Knight Ridder newspapers hired the national accounting firm BDO Seidman to examine undervote ballots in Florida's 67 counties. The accountants provided a report on what they found on each of the ballots.

The newspapers then applied the accounting firm's findings to four standards used in Florida and elsewhere to determine when an undervote ballot becomes a legal vote. By three of the standards, Bush holds the lead. The fourth standard gives Gore a razor-thin win.

The results reveal a stunning irony. The way Gore wanted the ballots recounted helped Bush, and the standard that Gore felt offered him the least hope may have given him an extremely narrow victory. The vote totals vary depending on the standard used:

* Lenient standard. This standard, which was advocated by Gore, would count any alteration in a chad — the small perforated box that is punched to cast a vote — as evidence of a voter's intent. The alteration can range from a mere dimple, or indentation, in a chad to its removal. Contrary to Gore's hopes, the USA TODAY study reveals that this standard favors Bush and gives the Republican his biggest margin: 1,665 votes.

* Palm Beach standard. Palm Beach County election officials considered dimples as votes only if dimples also were found in other races on the same ballot. They reasoned that a voter would demonstrate similar voting patterns on the ballot. This standard — attacked by Republicans as arbitrary — also gives Bush a win, by 884 votes, according to the USA TODAY review.

* Two-corner standard. Most states with well-defined rules say that a chad with two or more corners removed is a legal vote. Under this standard, Bush wins by 363.

* Strict standard. This "clean punch" standard would only count fully removed chads as legal votes. The USA TODAY study shows that Gore would have won Florida by 3 votes if this standard were applied to undervotes.

Because of the possibility of mistakes in the study, a three-vote margin is too small to conclude that Gore might have prevailed in an official count using this standard. But the overall results show that both campaigns had a misperception of what the ballots would show. The prevailing view of both was that minority or less-educated Democratic voters were more likely to undervote because of confusion.

Gore's main strategy throughout the post-election dispute was to secure a recount of any kind in the hope of reversing the certified result. Bush's strategy was to stop the recount while he was ahead. But his views on how recounts should be done, in the counties where they were underway, would have been potentially disastrous for him if used statewide.

So, as a typical liberal, you can ingnore facts and continue with your mistaken belief.

Not a liberal myth. It is myth of the Bush crime family and their troll apologists like you that Bush won. See this article by a respected investigative journalist Robert Parry, based upon nationally published findings:

http://www.consortiumnews.com/2001/112101a.html

To excerpt a portion of it:

"A document, revealed by Newsweek, indicates that the Florida recount that was stopped last year by five Republicans on the U.S. Supreme Court would have taken into account so-called “overvotes” that heavily favored Gore.

If those “overvotes” were counted, as now it appears they would have been, Gore would have carried Florida regardless of what standard of chad – dimpled, hanging, punched-through – was used in counting the so-called “undervotes,” according to an examination of those ballots by a group of leading news organizations.

In other words, Bush lost not only the national popular vote by more than a half million ballots, but he would have lost the key state of Florida and thus the presidency, if Florida’s authorities had been allowed to count the votes that met the state’s legal requirement of demonstrating the clear intent of the voter."

I don't usually waste my time answering to trolls on BradBlog or elsewhere, but the opportunity to give you a virtual "dressing down" is too good to pass up. That is all you will ever hear again from me. You are not worth our precious time.

Ewastud,

What you left out from the article: "Lewis has said in more recent interviews that he might well have expanded the recount to include those “overvotes.”

Well, he well might have and he well might not have.

No candidate requested a hand count of overvotes, and no court — federal or state — ordered one. The U.S. Supreme Court cited the state court's failure to include the overvotes in its recount order as an example of arbitrariness.
http://www.usatoday.com/...-03-floridamain.htm#more

So your belief about the FACT that Gore won is based on what someone MIGHT have done.

Gosh guys it seems like you need an Orkin man up in here. You've got a terrible troll infestation.

Brad, good interview with Stephanie Miller. I noticed that she seemed to let it go longer than she lets other interviews go usually. It was great to hear it going out nationwide. You're making a difference my friend. All the mighty Bradbloggers are making a difference.

Kira & jpentz, I'll be gathering with the others from Booman Tribune, Kos, and My Left Wing at the visitor center at the ellipse on the Mall at 11:00 am Sat. if you happen to be close stop and say hello. There will be green flags and orange flags with the group and lots of American flags because it belongs to us, not them!

Peace

Ewastud,

"See this article by a respected investigative journalist Robert Parry, based upon nationally published findings:"

"If those “overvotes” were counted, as now it appears they would have been, Gore would have carried Florida regardless of what standard of chad – dimpled, hanging, punched-through – was used in counting the so-called “undervotes,” according to an examination of those ballots by a group of leading news organizations."

It seems your journalist was in error:

Including overvotes in the above totals for undervotes gives different margins of victory:

* Lenient standard. Gore by 332 votes.
* Palm Beach standard. Gore by 242 votes.
* Two-corner standard. Bush by 407 votes.
* Strict standard. Bush by 152 votes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/..._Ballot_Project_recounts

Keep up drinking that cool-aid

Nuclearchemist --- what's your point? Bushco. are great leaders and great for America and the world??? Pardon me while I puke. People like you will only learn after jackasses (to be kind) like Bushco take you down with them. The overwhelming evidence is NOT on your side...and my comment here is simply to lecture you and not listen to your silly responses...so don't bother because I certainly won't waste one second reading what you have to say. It's not because I am closed minded, but because I am old enough to have seen and heard it all many times before...like I said, people like you won't learn until it's too late...so good luck to you...you'll need it more than those of us who know what's happening.

What she (Peggy) said !!!!

Peggy,

All I have been saying that fraud is bad on either side of the aisle. Liberals believe that the only fraud is occuring by conservatives.

NUKE in USA2004 2Nov. exit polls in areas with electronics were wrong by as much as 9% ,areas without electronics were spot on ,US funded exit polls in the Ukraine proved fraud according to GWBush but only in the Ukraine ? Even I'm not stupid enough to fall for that.

Wish I had time to finish what I started here, but I don't. Here's a great article about the Washington State election of 2004:

News: Election 2004: Washington State Republican Party Inadvertantly Backs Position of Ohio Contestors, Calls for Certification Challenge and Re-Vote

[snip] In a letter to the victorious Democratic candidate for governor, Christine Gregoire, Rossi opined about the recent official certification of the election, and complained, moreover, of "wrongfully disenfranchised people across the state...[who] have been denied the opportunity to have their votes counted." The Republican further observed, in calling for a legislative enactment allowing for a new election, "[i]f our roles were reversed, if you had won twice and I had only won in the less-accurate hand recount, I would support a re-vote. I would not want to enter office with so many people viewing my governorship as illegitimate."

"Disenfranchised people"? Inaccurate recounts? An "illegitimate" office-holder? Indeed.

The position articulated by Rossi and the Washington state G.O.P. is a conspicuous departure from --- and most certainly an embarrassment to --- the current position of the Bush Administration in Ohio. The Administration has publicly ignored and privately scorned the ongoing lawsuits, protests, and investigations in Ohio focusing on voting irregularities. Apparently Rossi and his set didn't get the Administration memo informing them that this year the Republican Party's position would be that every vote not be counted, and that every irregularity in the November 2004 election not be investigated.

Which, coincidentally, was also the Republican Party position in 2000. [snip] **MORE**

PS Echo "What Peggy said" and also what MMIIXX said!!!!!

Later, y'all. Gotta go.

Carter says Gore won 2000 election

Just watched bush on cnn saying "we must stay the distance in Iraq and avoid the mistakes of the past (1991 I assume) that lead to the attack on 911"

this asshole is STILL trying to link Iraq to 911, fricken amazing ,how do you get that "stoned"?

and where was cheney grinning in the background (probaly with has hand up bushes back so the lips matched the words coming out his mouth).