keep hoping kiddies.

I got dibs on the white meat.

Jane Hamsher's (Huffington Post today) name for Rove made me laugh. She called him "chunky little smear muffin."

Great picture. I hope you put him on low heat so he would squeal for hours.

There have been rumors that Fitzgerald has sealed evidence that a CIA agent, who had contacts with Valerie Plame, was executed in a hostile country after the WHIG outing. A star has been added to the CIA Wall of Honor indicating a covert operative has died in the line of duty. If this is true, somebody's going away for a very long time.

They should just drop him naked in the middle of Fallujah or something.

Love that pitiful ad though.

They should just drop him naked in the middle of Fallujah or something.

Love that pitiful ad though.

almost as pitiful as my double post, hehe!

Nice "leggwork" on this one, Jane... (those of you who've read her book will get the joke)

Bush is going to pardon everyone anyway, so ultimately they'll all get off scott free--but it sure will be nice to further taint the neocons and watch them twist in the wind and then ultimately stage anotjher terrorist attack on the US as a distraction. Oh, wait, that last part won't be very nice...

I hope that bush jr. will not be allowed to pardon these criminals including himself.

Rep. Conyers has a letter to sign on his main site asking that bush not be allowed to misuse the presidential pardon.

DeLay, Rove, Libby, and company know that it is not a prosecutor who brings the indictment.

It is a jury ... a grand jury.

Nevertheless they are beginning an attack on the prosecutor (link here). And perhaps to taint the jury pool.

If the grand jury indicts Rove, Libby, or others, we can expect attacks against the prosecutor.

They seem to prey on the ignorance of the body politic.

The president originally said he would fire anyone "involved" in the incident, then later flip flopped and said anyone "convicted" in the incident.

If he goes further and begins to say he would fire anyone "not pardoned" we can surmise the rest of the story.

GWN - "chunky little smear muffin" - That is too funny, about fell off my chair!

#4 Qualar - that's extremely interesting. Do you have any links about it? I would love to read more.

I hope something comes out soon, this waiting is killing me. It is eery and quiet. I sure hope we aren't disappointed....

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The sour grapes accusation has worked against those who have left this administration.

Note what one x admin official says:

Reynolds, who also served as director of the Criminal Justice Center at the National Center for Policy Analysis in Dallas and is now professor emeritus at Texas A&M University said, "If demolition destroyed three steel skyscrapers at the World Trade Center on 9/11, then the case for an 'inside job' and a government attack on America would be compelling" (link here).

Wow, think what Rove and/or Libby could disclose ... anyone smell a pardon and a promotion in their future?

what a hateful little group we have here. makes slovak politics seem civil. A bunch of Clinton supporters worrying about misuse of presidential pardon. Crazy people are funny. Stay in your own country please.

Dizzy Her ga ga #14

With a name like yours we could leave you in your country ... rovedale ... and be better off for it.

But here is a reward for you, it is a troll stroke

DZ - "Clinton supports" - "Crazy people" - "Stay in your own country" - WTF?

We're the hateful group? Pfffffft.

So why are you reading "hateful" things about your beloved Dubya's crooks anyways? We didn't force you in here, so if you don't like things, leave next time without your spiteful, unfounded, comments. You're really scared you're about to be part of the losing team, aren't you? It shows. No facts, just spewing crapola.

Sorry, Brad, I don't usually pay attention to the trolls, but I felt compelled this time. Dredd - nice reward lol.

#11 A CONCERNED CITIZEN

The link that discusses the execution of a CIA agent is

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plame_affair

and it’s one of the last sections entitled: Actual Damage Caused. It contains statements from a former NSA employee who claims current CIA agents reported the execution was indeed a result of the Plame outing. Supposedly, Fitzgerald’s sealed documents contain top secret information relating to a serious breach of national security. If this is true, the penalty could be death. For my GOP friends, this is more serious than Valerie Plame just had a desk job (a glorified secretary) and, by the way, Go Cheney Yourselves.

Question: what kind of horse trading goes on behind the scenes at this point?? So now somebody is floating the idea that Fitzgerald may simply close up shop and not issue a public report on the matter. OK now we all know that would be totally unacceptable to the vast majority of cluefull people out there...

BUT, does anyone have beta on what goes on behind the scenes now that the investigation is pretty much climaxing and we await action. I see the possibility of the administration hit men subtly conveying to a vurnerable politicos who have pull here "if you lay off on this, we'll let that thing about your embarrassing and/or illegal dealings side."

Anyone know?

What the hell does Clinton have to do with what's going on now in Washington? The only profound (and ridiculously perverted) thing Clinton has said since he left office is, "Bush won the (2004) election fair and square?"

When trolls have nothing better to do than mention Clinton in defending Bush, you know their treasure trove of ideas is bankrupt.

By the way, today's New York Times covered Rove's return visit to the grand jury with one story on an inside page. The headline referred to him as a Bush aide, not by name.

Get that? The second most powerful man in Washington (until very recently), and the world's most powerful newspaper can't identify him by name in headlining his fourth trip to court in connection with an investigation into possible treason.

I'm writing to Public Editor Byron Calame to ask why. I'd encourage others to do so as well. E-mail him at public@nytimes.com

#19 - Robert --- That's astounding.

burp

RLM #19 Done ....

Phil #18 You asked "BUT, does anyone have beta on what goes on behind the scenes now that the investigation is pretty much climaxing and we await action."

The prosecutor makes a closing argument to the jury, in this case the grand jury, and if they are convinced that there is enough evidence to indict, there will be an indictment.

The prosecutor does not decide who gets indicted, he only asks them to indict, he can't do the indictment himself.

They can agree with him or not, the jury is the boss.

RAW STORY has linked to a new york times article about Judith Miller (link here).

She is taking an indefinate leave of absence. She could not explain why "Valerie Flame" (not Plame) was written on her notes.

Wittle Judy Miller CANT REMEMBER who told her Valerie "Gold Digger" Wilson's name!!!!!!!!!!! LINK

Isn't that just SPECIAL???? Just wait a few years until she sobers up and the docs are found in hillary's bedroom. This is no way to run a conspiracy folks.

The only one I feel sorry for is poor little Valerie. She's being used by everybody and most of them probably don't even respect her 5 min later much less the next morning.

The press, however bizarre they've been, and Congress should warn Dubya to stay away from a pardon for someone who broke the law which resulted in the death of a NOC CIA agent.

Any president who would pardon such a person should be imprisoned himself for condoning such behavior.

I think the "clinton" bait is about the 147? 174? whathaveyou pardons he gave in his last days in office..

Funny though.. no one in his adminstration was guilty of treason.. poor dry-cleaning, but not treason..

and we spent $50,000,000 to back him into a corner and prove he was embarrassed about his blow job, and so fibbed about it .. (not condoning perjury, but come on.. all that over a blow-job? and I bet she didn't even swallow.. or there would have been no mess on the dress)

The trolls keep bringing us back to Clinton, as if his personal pecadilloes have aught to do with the abominations of the Bush administration.

Was Ulysses S. Grant's presidency the fault of Andrew Johnson? Do we blame Warren Harding's miserable 2-1/2 years in office on Woodrow Wilson?
When the historians write about G.W. Bush, they'll say he converted a record surplus to a huge deficit in less than one term. They'll say he invaded and occupied a non-enemy country and caused the needless deaths of thousands of American troops and tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis. They'll say he suborned the torture of hundreds (maybe thousands) of detainees, many of whom were innocent of any crimes. They'll say he converted the White House into a spoils house for frat-house cronyism. They'll say he enriched his friends in Corporate America at the expense of the masses.

And...they'll say he stole two elections, perverting democracy with the acquiescence and cooperation of the press and television. All of the above occurred under the direction of Karl Rove.

We have all witnessed gw's actions, I just hope he doesn't pull "I'm pres and I can do anything I want" with kr. If he does, hopefully that would be ammo for 2006 and 2008.

Here's this morning's New York Times report from your obedient servant and local gadfly.

The Sunday Times published Judy Miller's complete summary of events. She "doesn't recall" how the notation "Valerie Flame" got into her notes, and of course she only discovered this a few weeks ago. She has an army of the best lawyers on the planet, the Times has spent millions on its own lawyers in her behalf, this has been going on for over two years, and she now discovers notes in her office that include the (bastardized) name of the key figure in Fitzgerald's inquiry? Uh...I don't think so.

Bottom line...when Libby's lawyer assured Miller that his original waiver was sincere, he said "It's clear Mr. Libby didn't reveal Valerie Plame's identity to Ms. Miller." On the contrary, it's perfectly clear that he did. There's also an entry for "Victoria Wilson" in connection with her early discussions with Libby, which she said might have been a tactic on her part to get Libby to correct the name to Valerie Plame. Whether it was or not, it's clear they had discussed Valerie/Victoria/Flame/Plame/Wilson,
and that at least two of these discussions preceded Joseph Wilson's column in the Times that debunked the Niger/Iraq uranium story.

The Times itself wrote a long separate article about Miller, without shedding any new light on the administration's motives for outing Valerie Plame. It simply revealed that the paper screwed up, and that most of its reporters can't stand Judy Miller.

Conclusion...there's no reasonable doubt Libby and others outed Plame, but there's also no proof they did it with a sinister motive. Whether Fitzgerald will indict, absent that motive, is the $64 question.

I dunno, RLM. In re: your last paragraph: I think malice aforethought is clear here. What other sort of motive could they have had for treasonous behavior such as outing a NOC, thus endangering the lives of our operatives? I love reading your posts, but I think in this case 64 bucks is far too much to put on this question. How about: How will Fitzgerald die? Small plane crash? Plan B?

RLM, Your WRONG! The motive was Revenge for Wilson saying there was NO evidence to take us to war! That was the motive and to shut up possibly other whistleblower's in gov't! THEY ALL NEED TO BE NOT ONLY INDICTED BUT CONVICTED, BUSH,CHENEY AND REST OF BUSH CABAL! AND NOW, BEFORE THEY MURDER MORE INNOCENT PEOPLE AT HOME OR ABROAD! They are behind 9-11 too, and PURPOSEDLY lied to take us to war! Now this! How much BS and lying and murdering must they do, before they get punished? AND NO, NO DAMN DEALS OR PARDONS EITHER! WHERE IN HELL IS JUSTICE ANYMORE IN U.S? NONE! ONLY WHEN THEY WANT TO JAIL A POOR OR MIDDLE CLASS PERSON DO THEY GIVE A DAMN! IT THEY DON'T INDICT AND CONVICT BUSH,CHENEY AND REST OVER THIS, LYING TO TAKE US TO WARS, AND PURPOSEDLY MURDERING PEOPLE IN GULF TO FURTHER THEIR EVIL, SICK, AGENDA'S, PLUS INVOLVEMENT IN 9-11, THEN I DON'T KNOW WHAT IN HELL MORE THEY HAVE TO DO, TO GET PEOPLE TO WANT TO IMPEACH AND IMPRISON THEM! They need to be sent to Gitmo and that is too good for their lying, murdering asses! IF Fitzgerald does not indict Bush and Cheney and rest of 21 people, he is just COVERING UP, in my book! AND NO Presidential pardons either for ANY of them! Otherwise, people should RIOT IN the STREETS IF THAT HAPPENS OR IF BUSH AND CHENEY ARE NOT INDICTED TOO!

McCain sponsors an anti torture ammendment. rumor is Bush will vetoe it. Gonzales writes law that says it's o.k. to torture. Looks like Bush has boxed himself into a corner which could lead to the Hague. McCain not popular with neocons..breaking away? Knows he is safe now?

Dredd #13

Here is an interesting article regarding former administration people forced out under Bush.

The Fallen Legion: Casualties of the Bush Administration

#14 - hateful group? Guess you don't read alot about the antics of the rovemister. Like what he did to Max Clelland ? OR John McCain or how about Ms. Reyes from the Texas Secretary's office.
The list is too numerous....do a little research.

Absolutely nothing can be done to measure up to this degenerate's career.

MarkH#25 --- Bush is probably a co-conspirator --- they all deserve the death sentence --- Bush never had any mercy on anyone while he was governor --- he's a killer, murderer of innocent people --- I hope he gets exactly what he deserves in this lifetime!

well #34 Max Cleland blew off his limbs with his own grenades - hard to blame that on the Rove-inator. Poor John McCain - do a little research yourself on how he treated your veterans of your vietnam war. As for Ms. Reyes, she probably shouldn't have taken that first drink. You cannot call reading unsubstantiated ravings of people like Bill Burkette "research". All your base are belong to putin anyway.

Dzherga#36 --- Ha...Ha...Ha! Your idiot boy-king is in deep doo doo, along with all his dirty buddies. Ha...Ha...Ha! By the way, we are not a base; we are 6 or 7 independents. Feeling warm and fuzzy with your "base"? Ha...Ha...Ha!

Re: Lena David #9

http://citizenspook.blog...-new-constitutional.html

Citizenspook has done a lot of work on the very issue you bring up--my understanding of his findings are that if bush is impeached, and convicted by the senate, after which point he and his henchmen can be prosecuted, found guilty, sentenced and the pardon avenue is NOT available.

Hi, Roy#38 - Unfortunately, Bushco. believe they are above the law, or can re-write it to suit themselves. Who would have predicted the Supreme Court would stop the vote count and appoint the President??? Who wants to bet that Bush wouldn't appeal to the "loaded" Supreme Court who would find him "not guilty"? You are, sadly, dealing with a bunch of lawless barbarians who have taken over the "justice" system.

Dearest #37,

1) He's not _my_ king. In Chzech Republic your politics are interesting but non binding.

2) Do put down the crack pipe

I believe the motive for outing Plame was to intimidate others who might have been considering speaking out against Iraq war plans.

My only point was that proving a motive is tough, however obvious it might seem to us. In a criminal case, such as murder, a prosecutor need not prove a motive...but the 1982 law protecting cover agents was very narrowly drawn. My interpretation of it is that motive must be proven. Of course, if the grand jury indicts for conspiracy or perjury, that might be different.

Here's the Monday episode in the serial drama, "As the New York Times Turns."

Libby's troubles with the grand jury were covered in a single story on an inside page. In the headline Libby wasn't identified, instead cited as a "Cheney Aide." In Saturday's paper, a similar headline about Rove referred only to a "Bush Adviser."

The New York Times can't spell "Rove" or "Libby," apparently, even though they're each a first lieutenant to the president and vice president of the United States, the most powerful nation on Earth.

Dzherga - You really don't want to get me started on the CheeZee Republic!

Tuesday's Times...column by (conservative) John Tierney, who calls Plamegate "Nadagate."

Tierney's argument is that Bush's aides believed they were responding truthfully to a partisan smear by Wilson when they outed Valerie Plame. Thus, it's a matter of partisan politics, not criminality.

It's really about truth vs. falsity, not partisanship. I think we all know that, and I sent the Times a letter to that effect. But Tierney might sense the same wiggle room for the administration that I referred to in an earlier post, i.e., without a "smoking gun" such as an internal memo or a taped phone conversation, can it be PROVEN that outing Valerie Plame was an act of vindictiveness toward her husband or a warning to others who might dare to tell the truth about plans for war in Iraq?

It's a reasonable conclusion to draw, given the folks we're dealing with here, but proving motive is always tough...and the 1982 law seems to require such proof. I suspect (and hope) Fitzgerald is looking at conspiracy and perjury as alternatives.

RLM #44

I read, and posted, the statute dealing with outings of the Plame sort. There is no mens rea ("guilty mind") requirement beyond "knowingly", (e.g. malice is not required).

Further, if you read part 422 together with part 421, conspiracy counts fit the bill. I mean, conspiracy counts would be a perfect fit under the language of the statute.

Basically if there is a group pattern working toward a common goal, and it results in classified info being outed OR an agent being outed, then conspiracy counts are valid.

I'm sorry.. you can NOT say "oh.. I killed him over partisniship, not to kill him"

that's what this tool is honestly suggesting? are you kidding me?

the "why" you commited a crime is "rarely" important. If you write bad checks all over town to get money to pay off a ransom, you STILL wrote bad checks. "knowingly"..

amazing..

:) :O :confused: :blush: :angry: :crazy: :laugh: :hehe: :doze: :plain: :rolleyes: :satisfied:

#46: ponder the distinction between murder and manslaughter or discipline and ass-whuppin

Kin.. no, that's "intent" and "not intent" (for murder/man).. and light/hard for the other..

he's saying "on purpose for 'party', but not to be mean".. that's just nuts, and not a legal defense..

I think the point is, they are trying to say "you can violate the law if it's lashing out at your oposing party and it's not criminal, it's political and ok".. WTF?