Considering the lack of media attention the Downing Street Documents have recieved, the fact that Zogby is reporting today that some 42% of Americans would favor impeachment of George W. Bush for misleading the nation into war is rather stunning, we think.
The fact that the American People are no longer gullible enough to buy the baloney Bush sold in his speech the other night is not quite as surprising. We find both pieces of news to be encouraging.
…
In a sign of the continuing partisan division of the nation, more than two-in-five (42%) voters say that, if it is found that President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq, Congress should hold him accountable through impeachment. While half (50%) of respondents do not hold this view, supporters of impeachment outweigh opponents in some parts of the country.
Among those living in the Western states, a 52% majority favors Congress using the impeachment mechanism while just 41% are opposed; in Eastern states, 49% are in favor and 45% opposed. In the South, meanwhile, impeachment is opposed by three-in-five voters (60%) and supported by just one-in-three (34%); in the Central/Great Lakes region, 52% are opposed and 38% in favor.
Imagine what those numbers would be like if the Mainstream Corporate Media actually reported on what’s really going on!
What Political Capital?
What effing Mandate??
And, just imagine if, over the span of a week, our fellow Americans, had each section of the Defens Science Board report from Sept 2004 (which Bu$h had suppressed until after Nov 2 2004) explained to them:
http://www.democraticundergroun...4×3982913
Especially, if that explanation were placed in the context of the DSM, Plame, Edmonds, ….
I am amazed that the number is 42 %, given, as you note, how little coverage of the deception and illegality of Bu$h’s aggression has been explained.
WATCH IT; SPREAD IT http://www.bushflash.com/right.html
Peace.
Understandinglife is on the right track…. "Especially, if that explanation were placed in the context of the DSM, Plame, Edmonds, …."
We got context out the wazoo….2004’s Stolen Election, 9/11 accountability…
Anybody know how Zogby weighted that poll?
Good post, Understandinglife. Thanks for the links.
Oh — you might enjoy using this link:
Bradblog Community Assistant
"…if it is found that President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq…"
It’s found.
Understandinglife #2 — Here are your links:
Muslims do not hate our freedom … they hate our policies.
Bush Flash – After Downing Street – Remember the Lies – Video
Remember, it was around this time after the election that the Watergate investigation began in earnest. Keep the faith.
Brad your headline is misleading. You forgot to qualify it as "if it is found that President Bush did not tell the truth about his reasons for going to war with Iraq."
This is quite a bit different than what your headline suggests.
Any patriotic American should have responded that they would impeach a President for lying them into war.
But this poll says nothing about who believes or doesn’t believe that Bush lied.
It’s actually more disturbing that so many said no–though I bet people interpreted it as accusing Bush and simply reacted to that instead of the actual poll question.
I do NOT support the impeachment of the admin, I DEMAND IT!
However, I am in the minority in terms of representation in congress in terms of senate votes.
However, I am in the majority in terms of the population represented by the minority in the senate.
In other words, my senators represent the majority of the population but the minority of senate votes.
That is because they are dems and independents and because the senate is based on two senators per state regardless of the population of said states.
The majority of senate votes are republicans.
So I am not holding my breath for impeachment, but I still demand it.
Brad, I think this headline deserves a "red light" notice! Given the fact that so many in and outside washington are moving toward an investigation that WILL LIKELY find that Bush did deliberately lie to start a war, these poll numbers can only help. Every time a republican tries to box Dems in with the "conspiracy" word, all they have to do is hold up these poll numbers.
42% — how do we get that to be over 50% and then make it happen???
I wonder how many people didn’t answer "Yes" to impeachment because they were afraid to? Secret police and all…
Thought you might want to check out this discussion, too
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2.../30/16593/9962
Forget the corporate media. Do it yourself.
JULY 4: How to Wave the Flag AND Help the Country
On July 4th:
* there will be large crowds
* The crowds will be bi-partisan
* kids will be present (less potential for violence)
* media will be covering the events (sometimes live)
What would the number be if it were found that Bush lied to get us into Iraq, AND that the last two elections were won by deliberate fraud?
Please don’t put "Downing Street" on a picture with the flag. On the 4th of July Americans are more sensetive to politicization of things and they don’t like it. Just celebrate the 4th and enjoy some hotdogs.
"Happy 4th", should be all we notice on that important day of unity.
The American public have been slow to come around to the "proper" view of Bush and we don’t need to be shooting ourselves in the foot by offending them. Let them come to the right views of their own accord.
Inform, don’t preach!
Robert #15 –
AND that 9/11 was an inside job?
U.S. Complicity in 9/11 Implausible or Very Probable?
MarkH (#16):
It’s not poliitcizing at all.
The Downing Street Memos (minutes) is not a poliitcal issue whatsoever.
They are a set of documents (along with the briefings) that provide proof that the President of The United States committed a crime of the worst kind. If he were a Democrat, it would be no different.
Spreading the truth goes hand and hand with the American flag, for it is "truth" that is at the very heart of what America once stood for.
Any American promoting the truth with the flag should be applauded and encouraged, for it is the height of absolute disrespect to show the flag in the midst of dirty stinking lies — something the U.S. corporate media and the President do on almost DAILY basis. Got that MarkH? THE FLAG IS BEING DESECRATED ON A DAILY BASIS IN FRONT OF MILLIONS OF AMERICANS.
I’m not saying to hang the flag upside down or to burn it, nor am I saying to write on it (something GWB has done, using his signature).
I’m calling on Americans to do more than just wave the American flag and pretend that everything is hunky-dorey — for blind patriotism is what got this country into the state its in already. I’m calling on all Americans to wave the flag and help spread the truth at the same time.
If you don’t want it on the flag pole itself, then put it on your shirt or whatever.
How can you possibly do less when thousands are dying unjustifyably under that very same flag?
BTW:
This is the flag The President hung IN FRONT OF HIS OWN SOLDIERS.
(see story here).
Rush22 – You’re right vis a vis the misleading headline. Though the details are in the story itself, and I couldn’t out how else to word it. Open to suggestions.
I’ve been waiting for an opportunity to speak about majority public opinion and this may be the time.
The point is made here that just under half of the American people are convinced bush should be impeached for crimes against our Constitution, despite the fact that corporate media has largely failed to report on the evidence. What does that tell us?
(1) That we are not as stupid and compliant to propaganda as they had hoped after all.
(2) That given the proper coverage and discussion by corporate media of the facts, thereby this poll would have been conducted upon an informed populace, there would indeed be a great majority now seeking impeachment.
(3) That we are indeed the majority in America no matter how they skew (and don’t doubt that they DO skew poll data regularly) the polls.
(4) That the American people’s allegiance is to our Constitution and the law.
(5) That the American people are responsible citizens seeking Justice and resolution of the crimes committed by those in power.
My point in short is, don’t ever believe you are in the minority where matters effect the well-being of your country. The majority of us have chosen our Constitution as the foundation of our laws, rights and freedom. A very small minority have chosen tyranny.
Nothing will happen unless the neocons lose the House in 2006. That should be the goal. Every progressive candidate should have a complete record of the Republican abuses for the campaign. Just document the corruption and present it to the voters. Send Delay back to the bugs.
Actually, Torqued #21, MSNBC did in fact report on the poll. Keith Olbermann did an entire segment on the Zogby thing tonight, including an interview with Zogby himself. Keith has been frustrated by his "handlers," but he came out swinging (sort of) this evening.
Now we’re getting somewhere. The percentage that would support impeachment (42%) is basically equal to his approval rating (43%). For those who think impeacment is a fantasy, these numbers should open some previously closed eyes. The congress will eventually have to heed the people. They care too much for their own skin, and if public opinion continues to swing in this direction, I believe that eventually Bush will be thrown overboard.
Re. Dredd #9
That makes at least two of us.
This article sums it up for me.
snip
"No accountability means that a precedent has been set for future presidents misleading the nation into other aggresive wars of choice and paying no price."
Is John Conyers wringing his hands because impeachment is an uphill battle? Fuck no. He’s pushing harder every day.
Want misleading? Bill O’LIEly had a poll that said 74% of Americans liked Bush’s speech. He didn’t tell the viewers that most of the people polled were Republicans.
O’LIEly’s headline should’ve been,
"74 REPUBLICANS LIKED BUSH’S SPEECH"
the sooner the better,what are we waiting for?the androids are finished
THIS IS A ZOGBY POLL!
ZOGBY IS AN ISLAMIC ARAB AMERICAN THAT HATES BUSH AND WAS EVEN AT THE DSM HEARINGS!
It means NOTHING as do most ZOGBY polls. He has seldom been right about elections and other issues and that is a DOCUMENTED FACT!
In other words, Torqued, WE are now the silent majority.
While the talk goes on the bushmob continues to make ‘test runs’–like the recently performed nationwide mass arrests. Heralded by Alberto, the torturous apprentice, Gonzales as an advancement in law enforcement it was most probably a test of the ’round ’em up no charges needed agenda.
There is no other logical reason to explain why ‘they’ would allow known criminals whose locations are known to remain free until the designated time for that show piece event. And most of those ’rounded up’ are just convenient names, involved with minor misdemeanors.
‘They’ could orchestrate that just like the could orchestrate 911. What next?
The Gulag awaits.
I’d rather see the administration imprisoned for their crimes instead of being impeached and let off lightly.
A murderous war criminal that lies his own nation into an unnecessary war deserves more than just being fired… Bush deserves prison, nothing less.
Rush22 – You’re right vis a vis the misleading headline. Though the details are in the story itself, and I couldn’t out how else to word it. Open to suggestions.
I wrote a big long thing (couldn’t think of a headline that didn’t involve the whole 2nd paragraph of the Zogby snip) but in the end what I came to was that, well… maybe you should consider that er.. um… you’ve possibly completely misinterpreted the poll. :confused:
That question was asked, that question was answered. Occam’s razor.
What that would mean, though, is that 64% would not impeach Bush if he mislead them about the war. Quite disturbing. But, the thing is, there’s been a wide variety of misinterpretation, which I’m sure included the people polled. These ideas are just so charged up right now that a poll like this should be taken with a grain of salt.
I think the poll itself is bunk because Zogby asked such a charged question. Way more than just 42% would impeach Bush if he lied, I’m sure.
(and, if I’m wearing my tinfoil hat, maybe this is some sort of Rovian media trick to get people used to the idea that Presidents can just lie about anything they want, including reasons for war. *secures hat more tightly*)
A banner would be displayed below the flag, not above it.
:rolleyes: What I’m talking about. I meant 58% not 64%.
:blush: am I.
:hehe:But watch out….There does seem to be
an anti-Bush movement developing in the mainstream, but this could be part of an
orchestrated plan to put the Dems in power (a la
Carter after Nixon). Different party–same problems–damage done, profiteers profit on etc.
How else can you convince Red States to vote Dem? Discredit Bush and pubs and let everyone
believe, falsely, that Dems are somehow better.
Hillary to save the day! Not! By the way, prediction
for 2008: your next pres is Gov. Mark Warner of VA with Hillary as VP. You heard it here first. :crazy:
Don’t rush so quickly to conclude that the downing street memo proves anything. In fact, prudence would suggest considering the possibility that this is a misinformation operation.
I’ve read the memo, and while it does seem to support the IDEA that they wanted to go into Iraq well before even entering office and that they manipulated facts to do so, it doesn’t appear to prove anything, beyond a reasonable doubt.
While it might be one article of evidence, this alone cannot bring them down. In fact, knowing how they operate, they might be behind it’s "disclosure", because they know if they can set up the argument in their favor, shoot it down and call themselves clean and neat, it would put the issue to rest for the majority who just wants to believe the world is a nice place where their elected officials simply cannot break the law or mislead them, and only have their best interests in mind.
As for the polls. It’s taken this long to get this far. It will take more time to reach the 55, 60% where it will be impossible even for some republicans to not want to find answers, if simply to avoid being routed in 2006’s midterm elections. I don’t remember the details, but I remember long ago hearing that HALF of NYC residents believe Bush was involved in 9/11. I also remember another statistic saying around 30% believed Bush lied to go into Iraq.
Keep spreading the word, just pointing out simple facts and discrepancies. As people hear the same message over and over, they begin to be able to accept it. Heck, Bush already stated publicly that this is how he operates, so why shouldn’t we?
Talk is cheap. How do we get the impeachment process started? We need to move this idea from dialogue to action.
Don’t just jump into the first thing that comes along that appears even remotely promising.
It’s better to pick your battles. Maybe this issue isn’t strong enough to see all the way through to a successful impeachment. Maybe it is.
But just jumping in without careful consideration is foolish.
Perhaps this issue serves better as a step along the way of realization for the majority, something that will make the next flare up more workable for grounds for impeachment. If it can be shown that the DSM could stand alone for grounds of impeachment, then by all means, it should be pursued.
There is more than the letter, the gossip is that this war is a feud between the Bushs and Saddam Hussein or maybe a christianity vs muslum thing. This needs to be investigated…where there is smoke there may be fire.
The dems need to start the process of impeachment. I for one am tired of the Republicans believing they are above the law. Bush needs to take a "Nixon Exit" and save us all a lot of embarrassment and tax dollars. I would take a good sex scandle over what is happening in the world. It is apparent that Bush is surrounded by people that only agree with him. Do you know how dangerous that is? A President should always have someone that disagrees with him in his presence. Also, the President should be a good listener. This man has tunnel vision, and the American people are not in the tunnel.
Notice how Karl Rove, DSM, london bombings — these all happen around the same time, in the order they did?
They really are masters. They know how to manipulate the public discussion to their advantage.
They just got away with it, again!
Remember how Richard Nixon was forced to resign? First Spiro Agnew was replaced with Gerald Ford, so there would be an uncorrupt president-in-waiting. Dick Cheney must be concerned that the same fate awaits him. As Bush’s puppet-master the last thing he wants is to end his political career in disgrace, heart problems not withstanding. Engineering his departure would appear to be possible given the will, as just about every US politician seems to have done at least one thing that justifies resignation or impeachment if you dig deep enough. One answer to Dick’s dilemma would be if Bush were to suddenly and unexpectedly depart the scene: Accident, illness (physical or mental), criminal act, or even heaven forfend, assassination. Just thinking aloud.
As of right now, according to the msnbs pole the percentage of Americans who want impeachment of the President is 87%. What the President is doing wrong. There is absolutly no reason to avoid the FISA court unless the warrents were unjustified. The FISA system states that the exectutive branch has 72 hours to report with evidense of terrorist links to Al-Queda. The FISA court has rarely denied a warrent. The President said "we need to act fast". The fact is that the FISA court will not slow down that process. The American people need to decide if they want a Monarchy or a Democracy. This president needs to be put into check. Regardless of his Executive status, the President has to obey the laws like everyone else.
Here is the link to the msnbc pole.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904#survey