I am all for the old fashioned way of voting where people actually go to a designated location and filled out a paper saying who they voted for. It took a while longer but we didn't have all the conspiracy.

Hyrum #1

Myth.

We have Stalin as an example of the neutrality of technology.

Stalin used only paper ballots. His time was before voting machines.

Yet he always won handsomely.

He explained it with this paraphrase: "The people who cast their paper ballots decide nothing, it is the people who count the paper ballots who decide everything".

We need to realize that without honesty we can not have the american dream democracy.

So you, I, John, Brad, Bev Harris, and the rest of us can only struggle to make it as tamper proof as possible. We think that means, in this day and age of massive government corruption, a paper ballot system.

But as the Stalin factor shows us, it does not end with that technique, instead, it ends with honesty and integrity in election officials.

Speaking of myths of voting.

The dems have 48 votes in the Senate, and with Sanders they have 49. The repubs have 49 votes, and with Lieberman they have 50.

But the MSM is constantly saying the dems have "Senate control". Not true.

The dems, contrary to this neoCon myth, do not "control the Senate", they only have the "caucus majority".

That does give them much power, because they have chairs of committees and majority votes on committees. That is why all the oversite, subpoenas, and trouble for the regime, since the last election.

However, dems do not have Senate control, which is defined as 60 votes. Next in the power heirarchy comes veto control with 67 votes.

So, to be fair the people gave them power in the last election because they have a caucus majority, but they need Senate control which is 60 votes, and veto control which is 67 votes.

Until then, we can only hope that more republicans will snap out of the hypnotic trance the neoCons have put on them, and vote with the dems on war issues.

The republicans have filibustered 43 times. The last time they filibustered Senator Webb's amendment that would require soldiers returning from Iraq or Afghanistan to be at home equal to the time they were deployed.

All 48 dems votes and Sanders' 1 vote were for the Webb relief, but only 7 republicans went along with them, so the republican filibuster prevailed 56-41.

So, thanks to those "troop supporting" republicans, the troops can be home a week and have to go back even if they had been in Iraq two years.

Rest and recovery was what Webb offered them. He offered a bit more time for National Guard troops.

The republicans filibustered instead of supporting the troops.

RE: post #3

The reason the dems now only have 48 votes is that Johnson is incapacitated. He may recover.

If that happens the dems will have 49 and the republicans 49. On war votes, Sanders votes with the dems, but Lieberman votes with the repubs.

Hence 50-50 ... that is not "Control of the Senate" as the MSM falsely report.

Since Johnson is a Democratic senator, he counts in the majority. Since Lieberman and Sanders caucus with the Democrats, they count in the majority. The "majority" is not calculated on how they vote, or if they vote. It is calculated on the caucus, and the majority controls through chairmanships of committees, not how the votes shake out. The Democrats control the senate, just not well or by much.

Agent 99 #5

The law is made by votes. When a Senator does not vote the law is made no matter what party the Senator is in or even what state or country.

They must be on the floor and vote before the vote is inclusive of their vote.

"We don't have the votes" or "we do have the votes" is a function of voting, and that is what makes the law.

"We are democrats" or "we are republicans" has no effect on the votes when counted in a Senate vote.

Who is the majority or minority does not control, it is how they vote.

Some votes, for instance, have been 92-8. That illustrates the point that party is irrelevant to anything other than potential.

The dems now have 98 votes and the republicans now have 99 votes. The independents now have 2 votes.

That totals 99 votes because one Senator cannot vote now.

That may change if Johnson recovers, because then both dems and repubs each have 49 votes. The two swing votes would determine the outcome, and when they tie Cheney casts the tie breaker.

And he is not a dem.

And when Lieberman votes on war issues he is Cheney's Cheney.

If the dems controlled the Senate the republicans would not have filibustered 43 times.

A filibuster controls the Senate. Totally.