FIRST!

(Sorry, I think the heat is finally frying my brain..plus I just always wanted to say that)

Hi, KBE! And thanks, WP, for this Open Thread. Just the ticket for a scorching, soddenly humid, dull-making day!

I hope everyone starts to party here soon...

#1 and #2

LOL... yer going Crooks & Liars on us here!

WP, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only major OT item that COULD be considered relevant (at least those who post on it believe it is, and I don't disagree) would be... pause for effect... 9/11.

My thoughts on 9/11 have been posted before, but I would summarize them thus: 9/11 was an inside job, and it will be 75 to 150 years before that will ever be proven or publicly known.

But let's take it from a different perspective and say this: there are three possibilities for 9/11:

1. It is exactly what it has been presented as.
2. It was "allowed" to occur by the administration due to willful knowledge/actions or incompetence (politically, they would have the same result, either Republicans are stupid or they are evil).
3. It was an inside job, orchestrated like the Reichstag fire

And here's where I bring it back to the issue of what is OT and what is not...

It doesn't matter WHICH of the three it is, if it is #1, there is no story and if it is #2 or #3 there is no chance in hell that the Republicans will ever let it be known.

No matter how much we talk about it, or HOW MUCH we post about it, or how much "truth" will bring forward, the #2 or #3 story will NEVER be allowed to reach the stage of "acceptance by the public." To do so would cause too much harm to the Republicans (truth 2) or an outright revolution (truth 3).

So, why don't we put 9/11 aside here at BradBlog and deal with HONEST ELECTIONS as our topic --- our sole topic --- and our total emphasis.

One topic: Honest Elections!
One topic: Let every legal voter vote and count every vote.

It's so simple.

Yes, every conspiracy is interconnected, and the grand conspiracy of creating a new and modern "Pearl Harbor" to facilitate a return to autocratic government and U.S. world domination is definitely being carried out by the same people who are corrupting our electoral system, but can't we fight them on different fronts?

Can't 911Truth.org, SeptemberEleventh.org, ThoughtCrimeNews.com, summeroftruth.org, truthmove.org and the hundreds of other great sites handle the battle for THAT meme while we fight the other war?

Can't Brad's "brand" be "that guy who fights and blogs for honest elections?"

Hi Charlie:

Most of the time I agree with what you say, but here we have a few disagreements.

[1] There are many topics which I consider major and relevant to the current political scene but which are not directly related to election integrity. 9/11 is one of them but it is by no means the only one.

[2] You sound as if you believe that no concept idea or notion can ever be accepted by the public unless it is endorsed by Republicans. I think you are way wrong on that one. For five years now they have been trying to sell us on the idea that bush is a good president and at least two-thirds of us now believe that this is not true. And so on. We can spread the truth around in many ways and some of them are completely independent of Republican control. So far.

In fact there are large areas of the country where the majority of the people already believe what you say about 9/11. So the notion that 9/11 was an inside job is hardly in danger of NEVER being allowed to reach "acceptance by the public". And that's a good thing, IMO.

[3] Brad's "brand" already is "the guy who fights and blogs for honest elections" ... if the people who frequent his blog want to talk about other things as well as elections, that doesn't change what Brad chooses to blog about.

[4] Personally I would consider a change from a "free speech blog" to "a blog where only one topic is permitted" to be a huge step backward and I am sure that many of the others who read and post here will agree with me. But I am sure that many of them will agree with you too, Charlie. That's what makes this a tough (and therefore interesting) question.

There! I've said my bit. I am still very interested in hearing from everybody else.

I must say, ever since I first became aware of Bradblog, whenever anybody wants to know more about the ONLY real issue, I send 'em to Bradblog.com. I'm aware that others do great work, too. BBV, Velvetrevolution, Verifiedvoting.org, etc; but Bradblog over and over is the best, most comprohensive, up to date source available.

shw

Well, being that I've been banned from dkos it would be nice if Brad just bought the Scoop software and had a go at it. We need a Kos who isn't afraid to take on the voting fraud issue (because its the most important issue)and hopefully won't ban people! It would be a nice change of pace...

Philip Shropshire
www.threeriversonline.com

Philip

Brad just bought new software. We are already a place where you won't get banned for this, and other subjects. People don't get banned here unless they persist in disinformation, and other forms of gratuitous nastiness. (IMHO Brad already equals quantum times KOS.)

WP #6 -

Exactly right. Personally, I don't feel that Brad should change his format. This is a straightforward, friendly venue where a multiplicity of topics DO see the light and get discussed and where people get to know and appreciate each other without having to seek each other out.

Perhaps the solution to the perceived "problem" of single-issue exclusivity would be to open a daily Open Thread. Because right now Brad really does need to concentrate on election integrity and shouldn't have to deal with distractions!

One of the joys in coming to Bradblog is the host of ideas on subjects other than just the voting issue. The thread on the pentagon got over 600 comments and brought much enlightenment on the 9/11 subject. The Valerie Plame issues, the Karl Rove issues, the Tom DeLay issues - they all tie together like spokes in a wheel with the election issues.
It was the election issues which brought me here in the first place in Nov. or Dec. of 2004, but I have learned so much else from the other subjects that have come up here.
Had I only been seeing the election articles I think it would be easier to take the sour grapes view on it all - sore losers etc. But seeing how all the rest of it ties together makes it stand out as the number 1 issue in this country at this time.
All these things are worth discussing. I realize there are those who fear that association with some of these subjects lessens our credibility on the voting issues, but I don't know to what extent that is true. To me they have re-enforced the credibility.
A multiple page format would be helpful in finding the different issues, as it is right now I am getting lost as to which thread has which posts on it. So many new folks posting that if I'm gone for half a day I've got an hours worth of catching up to do!
I've found no other blog out there that can compare. The posters at the other blogs don't display the intelligence and ability to think on their own that is prevalent here. It is a joy to come here. Lunch? - hell I only go for lunch once or twice a week any more - this is my lunch. In fact this is one of my "Lunch Days" and I am here instead.
Thanks Brad and you too Winter (Great to have you back!) for all you have done, not only for the elction issue, but for making this wonderful forum for us all. Thanks to all the regular posters and welcome to the new posters for all your input! And special thanks to Agent99 for your excellent yeilding of your MTTBBB!

Open threads? - By all means!

Brad could designate certain blogs as limited to election fraud issues only. Others could be "open blogs" where 9/11 and other matters may be brought in.

These days you gotta be a crook to get Honored!

Jailed Cunningham among 'departing' lawmakers being honored

These days you gotta be a crook to get elected!
The Three Determining Factors of Election Results in the United States

These days even a crook can make an ass of themself!
Ass in Chief

Damn, I got alot of catching up to do! Glad to see an Open Thread...
I just got back from seeing An Inconvenient Truth. It was EXCELLENT & I HIGHLY recommend that whoever hasn't seen it yet, go see it.
I mentioned this to an acquaintance, who said "Listening to Al Gore for that long must have been boring".
NO! I admit that he used to have a bit of a problem with "woodenness" (though never to the extent to which it was hyped); but he really has come into his own in the last few years. He's like a different guy.

He's relaxed, articulate & has done (it seems to me) alot of "homework", both on issues & on himself. The man comes across as positively.... PRESIDENTIAL.

What a staggering contrast to our mind-bendingly embarrassing chimp-in-chief.
Btw, did anyone catch the Daily Show clip of the president's press conference in Germany? The "pig incident"? He really outdid himself in demonstrating what a gigantic moron he is. It was enough to make one weep.

Joan

I saw it, and I'd say you're right. He is the embodiment of Eugene Burdick's The Ugly American. Just when it seemed we had whittled that one down, boom, rigged s/elections of crotch scratching, heedless, greedy, self-satisfied moron.

ITMFA!!!!!!!!

COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
... Charlie L said on 7/14/2006 @ 12:05 pm PT...

"WP, correct me if I'm wrong, but the only major OT item that COULD be considered relevant (at least those who post on it believe it is, and I don't disagree) would be… pause for effect… 9/11.

My thoughts on 9/11 have been posted before, but I would summarize them thus: 9/11 was an inside job, and it will be 75 to 150 years before that will ever be proven or publicly known"

I used to think the same thing about Election Fraud but not anymore. 6 months ago you hardly heard boo about 911 but more and more people are coming out and saying it was an inside job. The foreign press is getting more active and we may be on the verge of accuiring physical evidence i.e. thermate residue on the building steel so I have hope. The other reason I think all progressive sites need to at least acknowledge the issue is that it is the keystone for all this administration has done, this whole card house comes down if the truth comes out. I do agree however that threads and sites/forums need to be focused for the most part so they dont get watered down with to many issues, and I dont want anything to slow down Brads momentum.

WP, based on what you said and also what BlueBear said in #11, I'm inclined to think I was wrong.

As long as the other threads can be SEGREGATED (Separate AND Equal) so that the newbies will easily find the election-related material, it would probably be fine.

BTW, I wasn't saying that only Republican or neo-con endorsed memes can get through...

It's just if the worst possible about 9/11 is true (i.e. a planned inside job for purely power motives by Republicans and neo-cons a la the Reichstag fire) and it DID get out and "accepted" by the masses, I can imagine open civil war of "us" against "them."

Would not every single Republican who had any position of power in this administration be up for immediate lyching? After all, we wouldn't be able to wait for the courts to work their magic --- it would have to be French or Russian Revolution style justice.

A tiny bit of me (oh, that really, really ANGRY 1%) thinks that might be good, but the rest of me is frightened of what would be left after all faith and trust (100%) in our government and public institutions was totally gone.

I really don't think we can HANDLE the truth, if that is what it turns out to be.

Charlie L
Portland, OR

LOOKY what I just found!

Open in new window or tab

weeeeee!

Shrubby as a rag-doll, bouncing down bubbles.. you can click and toss him! I tried to embed it, but it wasn't playing nice on the blog..

Charlie

"I really don't think we can HANDLE the truth, if that is what it turns out to be."

I bet that's how a lot of the perpetrators are justifying it, anyway.

WP

The only antidote to overly restrictive posting in the sense of there being not enough "open threads" is the "creative segue" ... ...

Why, Dredd, dear! You have a flair for diplomacy! Wow.

WP, it is good to have you back on bradblog.

I came here because I could not get the important news on MSM. I know where to find voting news now but I find myself going elsewhere for other news about the lies and crimes of the the BCFOL.

News from MSM has improved a bit since 2004. Countdown on MSNBC is quite refreshing and Lou Dobbs has been doing some honest reporting. The LA Times is better than most but can you believe that a former CIA agent filed suit against the sitting VP for treason and it appears on page A30? Yahoo and AOL gave this story more play.

I would like to see a daily open thread for non-voting news. I want to discuss the latest conspiracy or can-you-believe? moment. Threads on kos and huffington are just too convoluted for a meaningful discussion. I am generally bored by them. Bradbloggers (trolls included) are more interesting and the format is easier for us aging boomers.

No such thing as declaring "relevance" or otherwise on an OT. Half the fun of an OT is a variety of people discussing a variety of things all at the same time - randomness - I Ching - all that. There are just some times where new random stuff and choice in reading and responding is good. One sentence in an issue you aren't concerned about per se can lead to an important similarity or thought-link on a wholly different issue. Otherwise, we may as well be the MSM thought police.

Anyhoo, while I've been hoping for an OT for a while, I also understant Brad needs to stick with what he's doing until he, and therefore we, win.

I like the idea of an open thread, When I find something that hits me in the gut I really want to come here and share it with you guys to get your reactions. To hear if it hit you the same way it hit me. There is so much available to share. I love reading others links and have learned a lot here. I also came here 11-04 for the Clint Curtis story and have been coming back every day ever since. I have to thank Brad, John, and David and all the other contributors for my re-education. This blog to me has the most interesting conversations on the web, which is what keeps bringing me back daily. I also think that most of the other O.T. links have given me more of a thorough understanding of just how Fucked up our government is. I have more hope that we as a community can effect change in our lifetimes. I also realize there are people out there that really do care about our Republic, honesty and integrity. I just wish people would take up the gauntlet a little bit faster, and be willing to fight for their rights. I just don't understand the adage"Well it doesn't affect me." Bullshit it affects every single one of us whether we realize it or not......ITMFA!!!!!

How Solomonesque...

COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
... JUDGE OF JUDGES said on 4/12/2006 @ 10:33 am PT...

*oFF tOPIC* DREDD Inspired * I think It may be usefull have an open thread * A Rolling 100 no specific topic maybe limit to 10 lines . For Wayward Libralchauns

https://bradblog.com/?p=2685

How many people are going to the democracyfest beach blowout on Saturday night (sadly, not actually *at* the beach.) I am.

It was pretty hot today here. Tomorrow is supposed to be worse. Yuck. I hear it's even more scorching in other parts of the country right now, though.

-- Chris Hooten

Oh, for those at the democracyfest... In the daylight, on the street Montezuma (ave?road?)(the one that goes past the open-air amphitheater) look up, and you will see a super thin wire zig-zagging across the street from light pole to light pole. It almost looks like fishing line. What is that??? What could it be? It didn't used to be there a few years ago. Just wondering it's kind of strange. Check it out. Let me know if you see it, and what you think it is.

Winter Patriot where are you that you are frozen? It's great to see you back on Bradblog.
I come to the blog to hear about the voting machine(they are slowly being introduced here in Canada) because I think until that is dealt with, and as long as the neo-cons can vote themselves in, nothing will be done about the other issues.
I do read about 9/11, and as scary as it is to even contemplate the idea that it was an inside job, I really do think it may have been.

Maybe open threads once a week or so would be a good idea...
As Peg said in # 10 I think Brad needs to stick with the election fraud at this time though.
You're all a great group and I like the blog because Brad doesn't allow disinformation on it. You know that what you read is the truth and well researched and sourced and if not it will be corrected very quickly.
Yes ,Laura # 26, it does affect everyone of us...worldwide.

Oh, the little antenna-rod looking things that are attached to the light pole in pairs are for hanging little (vertical) banners in between the two rods, I wondered what they were for a bit, until I actually saw a banner hooked up to a pair.

...WP that question was meant, "geographically" where are you that you are frozen.

Yeah, could you maybe send some of that "frozeness" our way, here in San Diego?

GWN

Winter Patriot uses that term as a literary device; he doesn't mean it literally. It has to do with patriotism that doesn't evaporate when the times are tough.

Chris Hooten

You riled Erma.

Dang, and I was ready to trade some of winters cold for some of the heat here - 105+ tommorrow! Arry - ya ready - I'll send some up the hill!

A little bedtime song

When I'm feeling all the pressure, when I need to blow out my pipes, I go here, full blast, over and over.

I have a thing for The Edge's guitar. As a dear friend calls him, sui generis!

LOL Agent99 you thought I wasn't paying attention and now you've started giving away my secrets! Tsk, Tsk. Where's Fitz when you need him? And what are we gonna call this, 99-Gate?

Sorry, GWN, I've made a point over the years of not revealing my whereabouts. When pressed for an answer I have always introduced myself as "Winter Patriot, from an undisclosed location". So there! you now know as much as anyone else.

Thanks for your both your comments on this thread, Charlie. The second one was especially nice to see. It's cool to hang with people who are willing to change their minds when they learn what others are thinking. You don't see too much of that at the ... um ... enemy websites.

I'll be sending some winter cold to Chris Hooten and Bluebear2, and to Brad of course, and I'll probably have enough left over for anyone else who needs some. Brrrrrrrr!

Erma: if you're still reading us, hang tough, sweetie. There are a lot of people around here who feel the same as you do, or nearly so. Unfortunately we are not yet at a point where yelling "TAKE TO THE STREETS YOU FOOLS" will do much good. But we're a lot closer to that point than we were a year ago, for example. Rome wasn't built in a day and the VR won't be either. But it will be built. If you get my drift. Some days I wish I was in Bolivia. Have a look at the guy with the gun in the photo at the bottom of this page. Then have a look at the gun. (Disclosure: the previous link goes to a page of my former blog.)

Everybody: I think we can come up with a good compromise, taking into account your comments above (and any that follow, of course). At this point, it looks like one open thread is probably going to be enough to get us through the weekend. So I'll start another one in a few days or as required or something, but until then...

If you can't think of anything to say about elections, please say it here!

Sorry, 99, you can't fool us with this Latin.
sui generis

Dang you, WP! I wuz trying to get Chris back at his dickinary! I guess if I blew one of your secrets, I'll let you by on this one!

Winter of 99 Gate? xoxoxoxox

I just figured some other people might need to look up some words too. I try to keep it to a minimum.

Erma, lets keep our OT discussion in this thread. Have a good evening.

-- Chris Hooten

I cringed when I saw "Prup's" name at the top of this thread & his credit for breaking open a subject that has been talked about here before he deigned to tell us what is best to say & belittle our ideas because they don't jive with his agenda.
Prup ridiculed us AND Brad.
I can't believe it.
Screw him...

Charlene

I'm miffed too, but I see it as BradBlog giving Prup the chance to practice what he preaches, so to speak, and to show him we're not kidding about hearing all different voices. He really came slamming in, pressing all of our buttons, hard, and he got clobbered for it.

So. Now we see what he's made of, no?

Chris Hooten

Were you trying to give us all a heart attack on the DNC thread? What will Erma think! Sheesh.

99
Yeah, you have to be careful about being clear when using hot-button words like "porn." Whoops! It can be too easily misconstrued.

-- Chris Hooten

I thought you were talking DNC images good for porn for a minute! LOL THAT was gross! Ew.

Hours to go before I sleep...but couldn't resist a quick read on this thread.

First, WP was almost correct. I hope to open up BRAD BLOG as a group blog, but not necessarily with only election related stuff on the front page. The front page will have whatever I (or whoever happens to be managing-editing at any given time) feels are the most notable items deserving of front page coverage.

For the moment, as you all have noticed, the election stuff --- particularly Busby/Bilbray --- has nearly exclusively been covered here over the past month.

Does that mean that will always be the case? Good lord I hope not.

I blog what moves me and what feels important to cover. Hopefully the amount of coverage I've given to Busby/Bilbray gives you an indication of how important I believe that story to be for the moment. I don't believe I've *ever* devoted as much near-exclusive coverage to a single story. But, obviously, I believe this one merits it.

No doubt, when appropriate, there will be other issues and stories that I again have time to cover here. For now, I don't much time for anything. Haven't slept much more than 4 hours or so each night for the past month. Not good. But there's simply that much going on right now.

As well, David Edwards, who had been able to offer other more varied coverage has not been able to blog as much here of late as he has in the past, so that has also limited the range of coverage.

There is quite a lot I've been hoping to do for some time. But resources are exceedingly limited (believe me, reporting on Busby/Bilbray has not spiked readership, quite the contrary, nor has it been good for donations, as I haven't even had the time to ask for any). The story, however, needs to be covered, and I'll just have to figure out how to pay for it later. But various challenges, including amongst them, the necessary, but regretful loss for some time of the invaluable WP, have made things more difficult here than you all may likely realize.

But onward we always go.

Finally, my *hope* and plan had been to hit the road for the next month and get some much-needed down time, during which Guest Bloggers (including the recently thawed Winter Patriot) might be able to bring you both election related news and a wider variety of topics if they felt them important.

All is up in the air, however, as there is so much going on that it'll be difficult to travel --- and get off the grid --- as I had hoped...but I am going to try and do so nonetheless even if it means a few days off and a few days on as I work my way across the country to see my too-long unvisited family in the midwest.

Some may remember last year's attempt at a summer vacation when after two days "off the grid" a siren call from Crawford, Texas brought me all the way across the country to report exclusively from there for at least two unexpected (but unforgettable) weeks.

As ever, I hope you guys will go with whatever flow occurs here in the unpredictable world which is The BRAD BLOG, where any number of adventures may come with a moment's notice and then refuse to let go for any odd amount of time.

That's the nature of the joint, and I always understand as folks come and go as things strike their fancy here or don't.

In the bargain though, you all and your support are helping to make an enormous difference in the world, for which I thank you mightily. I'm grateful for every day that you folks are here so that we might continue to "enjoy" this wild ride together...

Peace.

Charlene #43

Prup ridiculed us AND Brad.
I can't believe it.
Screw him…

Not at all, Charlene. Read what he wrote very carefully, if you please. He never ridiculed anyone. He was actually very polite.

Agent99 #44

He really came slamming in, pressing all of our buttons, hard, and he got clobbered for it.

And undeservedly so, in my nearly frozen opinion. Wow! All he did was make a suggestion. It was a serious one, too, and it has some merit.

To be completely honest about it, I was very impressed with the way he handled himself and somewhat less impressed with the way some of us handled ourselves. Oh well. Live and learn.

BTW I don't think we're going to hear any more from Prup (at least according to his last post on the other thread) so this is not a chance for him to practice what he preaches. It's a chance for us --- all of us --- to see whether we can make this blog more useful to people who care primarily --- or even exclusively --- about election reform, without making it less useful to all the rest of us.

And as for his "agenda", if you have any doubts as to his sincerety I would you suggest that you have a look at his blog. I found this piece particularly good.

While we're dealing with difficult questions, here's one for you: Do we really welcome a wide variety of voices around here, or do we only claim to do so?

99: How about "WinterGate" ?

Charlene and others have been asking recently: "What sorts of tricks do you think the republicans have up their sleeves for November?" although perhaps not in those words.

Personally I wouldn't be surprised to see them use "the other nuclear option" ... and I'm not talking about the rules regarding filibusters. When? Middle to late October, probably. Where? I don't know. But I wouldn't want to live in Teheran, or Caracas, or Chicago. MHO only of course but you may share it if you wish.

Yee-haaaa!

As we say in Tennessee. Or

AAAAAA-EEEEEEE!!! As we say in my former home, Louisiana. Open threads from all y'all have been great!
I particularly liked the links to rag doll Bush (haven't had that much participatory fun in awhile - suprised how it made me laugh out loud...) And the "This Land is Your Land" group sing. Waaaay Cool. I gotta point out, that, as a working dog musician, I've been doing that tune regularly since 9-11, to great response. I tend to do it as a mournful lament for what our country has become - and a hope for where we may be able to go...

Thanks to all y'all who keep this community of patriots going.

Now I'm going back to Louisiana again this week to try to help with recovery by trying to eat up all their shrimp. Just doing my part.
If you're in Baton Rouge area, come see me as I host the 20th anniversary of The World's Greatest Blues Jam on Thursday the 20th at Phil Brady's Bar. I started that show and ran it for 9 years. The anniversary will feature some of the greatest musicians you've never heard of (including former Blood, Sweat & Tears vocalist Big Luther Kent, international award winner Larry Garner, members of Slim Harpo's and Gatemouth Brown's bands), all the jambalaya, crawfish pie filet gumbo and such you can eat, and the incredible joie de vivre of south Louisiana on a Thursday night at Phil Brady's. I'll also be preaching about Electile Disfunction, singing "This Land is Your Land" and my "Election Reform" tune. Thanks Brad, for first putting it up here...

One thing about being liberals, or, at least folks who are for freedom, is that we have to allow everybody to have their say, and then respond as best we can.
We should note that Republicans got where they are by pulling together. Sometimes we fight among ourselves so much we miss the fact that we are all on the same team.
So come on team. Speak our minds, but use our strengths, which are the mountains of brainpower that we have. Let's don't waist it fighting among ourselves...

Thank goodness for an open thread. I've been butting my head against a wall with someone again this morning and I need to rant.

In spite of our successes on the election fraud issue (and we have had more recently than at any other time), I keep hearing this “You won’t win, give up” chant coming from a certain segment of the population.

I was raised in northern Alabama. I was only a child when the civil rights movement was in full force, and though I remember bussing and segregation and fights between blacks and whites on the schoolyard, I wasn't completely aware of the significance of what was happening around me. I just remember a lot of fear and anger and a lot of things that didn't make sense to me at the time.

But I have walked in some of the places where people marched as they fought for what was right, stood in the very spots in Selma and Birmingham where young and old were beaten and blood ran and people were turned back by firehoses, people who were told “You can’t fight this, the people in power are too strong, it’ll never change".

Go back in history, you’ll find it again and again - people being told “You are not strong enough, you can not win", then pouring their hearts and souls into the fight because they believed..and time after time, against the odds, those who fight the good fight and REFUSE TO GIVE UP eventually win the war.

And make no mistake - this IS a war. We are taking back our country. We are fighting for our constitutional rights.

Okay people, I know some of y’all get tired of hearing me say this (I know my kid does), but it’s like this: when you strip away the extraneous “stuff” in life, all things boil down to two choices - acceptance, or change. If you don’t make an effort to change something, whether because you think you can't, or because you just don't want to try, then no matter how much you hate it, you have by default accepted it.

Those of us who have been fighting the good fight here at Bradblog and other places have made our choice - we cannot accept what is being done to our country, and so we have decided to do what we can to make changes. We don’t win every battle, and sometimes we get so tired and frustrated we want to SCREAM (I know I do anyway), but we’ve already made our choice, there is no turning back now.

So, those of you who would come here and say, “Why fight? We can’t win” - you have a choice to make.

You can sit on your butt and accept the slow and painful death of democracy in this country, or you can join us.

Accept it, or change it - there are NO OTHER CHOICES.

President/General Dwight Eisenhower once said:

"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. This is not a way of life at all in any true sense. Under the clouds of war, it is humanity hanging on a cross of iron."

And perhaps Katrina victims too?

For those who are Karma adherents, or its many derivitives, etc., on a serious note:

A former Bush administration official, after arguing violently with his wife Thursday night, shot and killed his 12-year-old son inside their McLean home, then turned a shotgun on himself and committed suicide, Fairfax County police said.

(link here). Those who practice murder and mayhem and those who support it must deal with it. Wishful thinking is not going to be enough.

I am trying to segue this into WP's worries that we are not open armed enough to others.

I have two comments: I will always categorically reject the oil baron wars and those upholding them.

Yet at the same time if those folks change for real, and want to come here and blogfellowship with us after they publically reject their past, I will be glad to blog with them.

Because they do need help. Their past is after them and it is going to catch up with them.

We can perhaps help them to avoid the terrible fate they have forced upon thousands of human beings by helping them to turn around and go with the winds of peace after they reject the winds of war that have enslaved them.

KestrelBrighteyes #54

Care to help us find someone in Alabama (Huntsville) who will do some research at the court house and the county recorders office?

Email me if so ... so far Floridiot and I have been working on what I consider to be the one place in the election machine realm we can make some breakthru.

For K.B.: You alluded to the civil rights struggles in Alabama as a frame of reference for cleaning up rigged elections. Good comparison. To fully understand it, and better deal with the problem, I think we should ask ourselves, "What was the real issue in every previous struggle?"

Slavery: The agrarian South required cheap labor for economic health. Slaves were imported from Africa. The human dimension ("all men are created equal") WAS NOT PARAMOUNT except to a minority in the North, called abolitionists. It was an economic question, and the great irony is that technology would have meant the end of slavery eventually, as machines replaced human labor. Slavery was 99% about economics, 1% bigotry.

Women's Rights: In the 19th century the focus was on spousal abuse, which led to a temperance movement (because booze exacerbated the problem), and poor educational opportunities for women. But the movement only gained currency when women focused on ECONOMIC issues, i.e., equality in the workplace.

Labor/Management Turmoil: Employers want maximum profits. That means the lowest possible salaries and the fewest benefits possible. Purely economic, though ethnicity has often been dragged into the conflict.

Iraq/Middle East: It's supposedly about "freedom," but we haven't sent soldiers to Darfur. If Darfur had oil, though, you can bet we would have. It's ECONOMIC.

It's always about $$$$. As long as both major parties are awash in corporate $$$$, clean elections won't seem like a cause to the people they support financially. Democrats received more from corporations in the last year than Republicans did. Is there a C.E.O. anywhere who's worried about whether the 2004 election was rigged? If so, we haven't heard from him. On the contrary, Corporate America won't allow its media arms to "go there." And if Corporate America won't go there, legislators who depend on them for money won't, either.

The fight is ours, K.B. We just have to decide on tactics.

great move making an open thread. this site was one of the first "liberal" sites to take 9/11 truth seriously, and when the shit hits the fan, those of us that have been 9/11 activists for years will remember that.also RawStory.com has treated 9/11 truth fairly in the past.(they had reps at the Chicago 9/11 conference) we will also remember how sites like C&L and DailyKOS delete and ban people who post 9/11 related comments,for fear of being called conspiracy theorists.(by the way,many at KOS think election fraud is a non-issue just like 9/11)this is a very important site, even if they were to ignore 9/11.in my mind, election fraud is easily the second most important issue to expose. its no coincidence that the 2 most surpressed issues in the mainstream media are scrutiny of our electoral process and scrutiny of the events of 9/11.they are the 2 big lies that sustain this corrupt system.i urge BradBlog to cover 9/11 more in the coming months.things are about to get very interesting.even if you dont, i thank you for not censoring me and others like me in the past and for going so hard after the election fraud issues.

How Could They Plant Bombs in the World Trade Center?
Recently, a smart, accomplished person told me:

"I don't believe that the World Trade Center could have been destroyed by controlled demolition . . . how could they have possibly planted bombs without anyone seeing them?"

In fact, there were plenty of opportunities to plant bombs in the World Trade Center. For example:

Bomb-sniffing dogs were inexplicably removed from the Twin Towers five days before 9-11

The Twin Towers had been evacuated a number of times in the weeks preceding 9/11

There was a power down in the Twin Towers on the weekend before 9/11, security cameras were shut down, and many workers ran around busily doing things unobserved.

And --- as an interesting coincidence --- a Bush-linked company ran security at the trade centers, thus giving it free reign to the buildings.

These are just a few of the known, public examples of opportunities to plant bombs. There were undoubtedly many additional opportunities available to skilled operatives.

http://georgewashington....lant-bombs-in-world.html

Dredd and all, a message from the people of Alabama fur ya, lol

Link

Chris #59, #60

WP and I knew 9/11 was not what it was portrayed to be on that day. We knew something was not passing the smell test.

The next day at work (I worked as a contractor with active military guys who highly respected my software skills) I told them this was like pearl harbor ... the government knew it was coming but did nothing!

And I had read NOTHING about it anywhere. I had not heard of the PNAC, yet I knew that there was strong evidence that FDR allowed Pearl to be hit to "wake America up" to the Nazi threat.

And I know it is serious:

The author of an article about the attack on the World Trade Center has found himself under attack for having published it in a new on-line publication, Journal of 9/11 Studies. Entitled "The Flying Elephant", the article discusses evidence that a third airplane was captured on video at the time of the WTC attack. He has now received a thinly-veiled threat against his children, who are cited by name, suggesting it would be a good idea if his article were to simply "go away".

(link here). As to security at WTC, many forget that on or about 9/1/01 FBI agent O'Neill "retired" from the FBI and became head of security at the WTC. His specialty was terrorism.

Dredd's comment (about how long it took me to realize that 9/11 was not what appeared to be) was right on, and if you are interested in more details you could click here:
9/11 Was A Hoax: How And When I Knew It

If you're not interested, that's ok. There's no penalty for not clicking!

All y'all 9/11 folks are great to stay after that subject; because if the '04 and '00 election thefts were not the crimes of the century, surely 9/11 was.
I don't get involved because (as a paycheck to paycheck guy - like most of us...)I only have time for one issue, the major issue over everything; which is election fraud. Dare I say that 9/11 wouldn't have happened if Gore had taken his rightful place as POTUS...
However, it is as important as anything else - including global warming - that 9/11 continue to be addressed, and thanks to those of y'all who do it.

shw

Re: Many of the above comments.

Little brother Marvin Bush owns the security company responsible for the Twin Towers.

KBE, RLM, Dredd, et. al. - YES, we must remain active and committed. Otherwise, the demise of this country (and the world) is inevitable. Let's keep our minds firmly joined!

#58
Yes, it's about the money ("War is a Racket"/Smedley Butler), but for what end? The webs that connect International Corp. interests and the Rapture Right are deep, strong and scary. The two entities have danced in the past. However, in the past the former has always controlled the dance cards. I fear that is no longer the case. When people like Kevin Phillips come out ("American Theocracy") beating the alarms concerning the profound and dangerous influence these people have we should take notice. Money is only the means to an end. I have witnessed the effects of the Rapture Right first hand. Sadly I now have family members who have not had an original or independent thought since they were SAVED. When it comes to the saving souls, anything goes. The end justifies the means. The concept also holds true for their "World Crusade". Within this cabal some are driven by greed, others by visions. The greedy want to protect their hoard. The visionaries want much more for their investment.

Very good Dredd & WP, On that morning I turned on the TV I was living out in L.A. at the time,so it was early, maybe 6:30am The first thing out of my mouth was "nice foreign policy you got there Bush" my wife said I shouted it, I don't remember
When the second plane came in I said, "its a setup, we are going to war", I don't know why I said that, instinct perhaps ?, but I had this World war scenario in my mind ever since Bush was (s)elected earlier in the year, that didn't set well with me at all.
Anywho, the thing remains, If we could have a setup on a grand scale such as 9-11, it can't be too much of a stretch that the high levels of Government are controlling the elections here...can it ?

#20 Savantster,
Every time I see that, it sucks me in. Just gotta watch him fall like a damn rag doll for awhile. I don't know why but it's HYPNOTIC.....

#36 Bluebear2,
Oh MAN...that was great. Thanks. Gave me goosebumps.

And thanks, Floridiot (#61), for reminding me why I should never vacation in Alabama. Them people are SCARY.

Shannon Williford #52

I wish I could be there helping folks out, eating shrimp with you and listening to all that good music!
But KAOS keeps me in a week to week world of trying to have enough to feed my family and buy the gas to get to work to do it all over again.

Joan, the little time I stayed there, a couple of days
The only tourist attractions were Battleships, military shit
I always had this creepy feeling while I was there that I was in a TRUE police state, I even said to myself, so this is how it felt in Germany, mid to late 30s...

You know, at this point I feel like I'm balanced on some weird-ass kind of fence, between believing my government is truly, deeply evil, that 9/11 was an inside job, that elections are fixed--maybe for good--that the problems are global & monolithic--- on one side, and on the other side still somehow hoping, BELIEVING that good people -like our Mr. Friedman & some others- CAN make a difference, CAN change things, ARE worth supporting.

I dunno. Boy, maybe this sounds just completely naive, but I actually think Gore can do it. Can win. If his skin is as thick as bootleather. I think he's the one they fear now. He can do it.

Like I said somewhere else Joan, If you look at it like a frozen lake with about an inch of ice on it, if we get enough people and pound hard enough, we might break through...hopefully we're not too far from shore yet

For those interested in 9/11 here is a place I came across with a whole bunch of videos.

WTC 9/11 - 116 files

Once you get past the first couple which play out the "official" version, you will find many without any kind of slant, or no commentary at all.

Particularily interesting are the ones: "WTC - Aric Hufschmid Painful Decpetions Analysis Of Pentagon.wmv"
and the "ghost plane" ones. Notice the explosion at the nose of the plane in "ghost plane". emember - the fuel is in the wings - which by the way don't fold up!

Joan #68,

You're welcome - it came to mind as I had just finished watching a biography of Woody on PBS. Incredible man and incredible story! I was still wiping the tears from my eyes.

"emember" = Remember

I hate my keyboard! Keeps dropping caps.

BB2, mine keps drooping leters

Shannon #54

You said:

If you're in Baton Rouge area, come see me as I host the 20th anniversary of The World's Greatest Blues Jam on Thursday the 20th at Phil Brady's Bar.

Lets do it. Reminds me of the trip last year (link here), but alas we bloggers missed each other.

So email me with some info and stuff, cause we need to keep our heads down and not let all the when, where, and how be known.

And of course after it is over I will post a report with pictures of big cold beer mugs, Shannon getn down, and lotsa cool blog stuff.

Later bro ...

BlueBear2 #75

The $19.52 for a new keyboard is in the mail

Agent Floridiot

Agent BB2's guinea pig is allowed to roam in his office. It uses his keyboard for its bathroom, and gums up the works, so to speak, and there is this transference of his wrath from the critter to the object. He's been in therapy over this for a long time.

#s 78 & 79

LOL

99 - Dredd's refering to my billing him for new keyboard after repeatedly spewing on it over the Gannon/Coulter thing.

{No worming out of your therapy sessions, now BB2 }

The count-the-vote effort in Mexico.

"May the followers of all religions and spiritual paths work together to create peace among all people on earth."

For a way to be involved in middle east peace see http://360.yahoo.com/radioactiveradine.

Thanks for the open thread and all the good work you do Patriots!!!

You guys are great!

On another note: Gore/Edwards 2008-. Whistle! What a freaking "for the people" machine that would be! If we could only start flying banners now! How confident in the integrity of this country we could feel!

#72
I like that image. Pound!! Pound! Pound! Pound! It's more comfortable than the fence, too. And hey, jumping up & down like this will keep us warm!
(I know I'm in Florida, but we're on a frozen lake here)

#83 Miss Persistent

From your lips to God's ear, as they say.

THAT is my dream ticket right now too.

Miss Persistent,
"If we could only start flying banners now!"

Why can't we? I'm game. Kinko's can make up stickers & banners...why not? I had kinda wanted Gore/Feingold, but, hey....I can go with Gore/Edwards!

That ITMFA banner sure looked good on the front of my house. Now that space looks bare.

GORE/EDWARDS '08 it is! I'm sure Mr. Gore would enjoy getting a picture of it, too. Just a polite little nudge.

Joan

I want Edwards so badly because he has unequivocally shown he is 100% behind the working people and the poor... has definitely put his money, heart and soul into that, since the big Kerry betrayal in 2004. Edwards MEANS IT! In fact, since Dean had dropped out by the time the California primary came around, I found that I had already been respecting Edwards the most of the lot (and starting to like Clark too) and voted for Edwards in the primary. Never wanted to have to vote for Kerry, but, as they say, held my nose... having Edwards on the ticket helped me there considerably too.

#49 WP
Prup:

"I think the elections MAY have been stolen but we can't do a damn thing about it"
Dis.
How many references are there on here re the proof that the 2000 & 2004 elections were stolen? Palast etc..

"We don't have the sort of case we need.."
Dis.
We have followed all the impeachable offenses--I entered a comment re it the other day myself.

We don't have "the support to overthrow them".
Brad helped start VelvetRevolution--the purpose of which is to impeach Bush & Cheney. Does this guy know anything about this blog & it's blog master at all?

"So drop it."
Dis.
He apologizes later for his admitted pompousness--to Brad but not to us.

Further Prup:

"Don't bring up any OFF THE WALL 9/11 conspiracy theories.."
Dis.
Alternet.org reports that according to a May 17th, 2006 Zogby poll, 42% believe the US govt & the 9/11 Commission are covering up what really happened on 9/11/01. 42 per cent. He's off the wall--closer to half of everyone believes it.

"They are NONSENSE & will send anyone WITH SENSE running.."
Dis.
Brad bloggers have no "sense" because they believe "nonsense"??

"RFK's DEMONSTRABLY FALSE mercury autism article.."
Dis.
The ONLY reason it hasen't been 'demonstrated' in court yet is because the govt let the companies stagger the batches that contained the mercury with the ones that did not contain it. The big companies know that. The mercury SHOULD have been stopped all at once & immediately for the safety of our children. If it had been done that way--the resulting sudden drop in autism cases would have proven Kennedy right.

"Someone who was as MONSTROUSLY wrong as he was saying the same thing we are will get people looking at us the wrong way."
Dis.
We just had the thread where we celebrate RFK's law suit & RFK's election fraud article.
Telling us Kennedy is not credible while we celebrate him is a definite dis to us.

Plus, Prup uses the thimerosal issue to show RFK has been discredited--then later refers to the "irrelevant thimerosal QUESTION" (it's not a question, it's an issue).
I believe he says it's irrelevant because he didn't produce any proof to back up his allegation except that all the guys at certain other blogs think so.
Not good enough.

I rest my case.

Yes, Prup, Charlene makes some decent points here. Just how stubborn are you? I think you and/or the people you think will be thrown off the issue because of Bobby's involvement would only be thrown off out of a type of envy, the threat posed to (primarily) men who fancy themselves powerful influences, their egos' feeling the threat of exposure as lesser mortals, lesser citizens, lesser statesmen, that Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.'s sterling record, and personal comportment, represents.

I think there is what amounts to a mass sense of guilt on the right for not being big enough to do the right thing. I think that is what is so unattractive about Bobby to them. The way to fix that is NOT to downplay him. In fact, that would be worsening the disease! They (you) need to get comfortable with the fact that he is a seriously good human and more than a model citizen, and learn to be grateful for it.

On the lighter side:
Coulter Reception Netted $0 for Beauprez

On the heavier side:
This is what Bobby was fighting against.

32%

A Flag Just for Burning!

Truth the terrorist's weapon!

WILLY WONKA DEMANDS FAIR SHARE OF HOMELAND SECURITY FUNDS

Ok one more and I'll stop!

ADMINISTRATION WANTS DETAINEES TRIED BY JUDGE JUDY

I think Brad Blog and Raw Story smoke dkos & huffington post. I never go there anymore. I'm interested in what everyone thinks of this site: www.rbnlive.com , anyone ever go there??? I really respect everyone's opinion on this blog, I was wondering if anyone ever goes there.

I think rbnlive is a conservative site, but a true conservative site, not these "neo-cons". And I've often found links from rbnlive directed to brad blog and raw story.

Thanks for the link, big boy. I'll check it out.

Hey, wow, 99 makes the 99th comment!

Chris, you would like American Free Press newspaper. They have been reporting extensively on 9/11 for years. They are the newspaper leading the fight to expose 9/11. On the other side of the coin, the only rap against them, is that some people claim they are anti-Israeli. I don't go for that. I think that ANY newspaper or website that simply reports a lot of Israeli news thats truthful, but makes Israel look bad, is called anti-semetic. I really don't like the "anti-semetic" smear if the reporting is truthful reporting, but some people want the reporting suppressed. I think everyone is subject to reporting, period, if it's truthful reporting. Another form of lies, is suppressing news.

Raw Story is running a story contrasting American/Israeli news vs. Arab news, on the recent Israeli bombing of Lebanon. The next thing, is the machine will be saying that Raw Story is "anti-semetic". I don't go for that. Now, lies and misinformation about Israel are a completely different story.

Democracy NOW! news very often has Palestinian civilian guests, giving first hand info about what it's like from the Palestinian's perspective. So, is Democracy NOW! anti-semetic? No.

It's just like the "why do liberals hate our country" loaded question. It's like saying, "so when did you stop beating your wife?" to someone. Framing. The question or statement is invalid in the first place. Repgrting news on Israel that makes Israel look bad, is not anti-semetic.

Personally? I think they're all nuts out there, both sides. Why can't they get along? It's off the charts, the hatred they have for each other. I don't think we can really comprehend the hatred they have for each other out there. And it seems, everything revolves around the Arabs and Israeli's not being able to get along with each other. That conflict has been going on for centuries.

I heard Limboob's guest host crucifying the Arabs and praising the Israeli's for this recent conflict between them. Righwing radio is skewed towards Israel, definitely in my opinion.

I think Israel is using too much might against them, and killing a lot of civilians. Also, there's many Palestinian women and children in Israeli jails. I ask myself, with the recent capture of the Israeli soldier, why was that plastered all over the MSM, but never a word about the Palestinian women and children in Israeli prisons? Now THAT's biased reporting by the MSM, not giving both sides of the story. And that's what Raw Story's article is all about. The MSM is definitely skewed pro-Israel. I suppose I'm anti-semetic for saying that? I definitely think NOT...I am NOT anti-semetic.

Big Dan

THANK YOU! We are never going to be of real use in that situation if people keep calling anti-Israel or anti-Zionist reporting or commentary "anti-Semitic". Just can't be done. Open yer mouth on the subject, and someone will nearly immediately try to figure out a way to call you ugly names. This has got to stop, but man, it's gonna be a tough row to hoe.

Did it cross anyone's mind, that because the blogosphere called Bushco and the MSM on trumping up a war against Iran, that this latest Arab/Israeli crisis will be a way to backdoor us into a conflict with Iran? The MSM is already planting stories that Hezbollah is using rockets made by Iran and transported by Syria, and that Hezbollah is transferring dirty bombs to Iran. Notice how the MSM ALWAYS implicates Iran and Syria in every single MSM story about this???

I think I nailed it. Watch for Bushco/MSM trumping up Iran being behind this crisis.

Our eye is really off the ball on this one, in my opinion. No one is mentioning the fact that all the MSM stories mention Iran and/or Syria in all the Hezbollah stories.

Just like the MSM leadup to the Iraq War. Anyone agree??? And we're all not talking about it, just like they want. They next thing you know, Bushco will start saying Iran is behind all this.

It's actually a great plan by the neo-cons. Because we all beat them to the punch when Bushco and the MSM trumped up a direct attack by America on Iran.

This is "plan b", the "backdoor plan." Anyone notice this thing escalated out of nowhere??? And the MSM is constantly mentioning Iran and Syria as being behind it???

Big Dan #102

I've been thinking the same thing for a while now.

And the rich got richer off of 9/11

Big Dan and BB2

Yeah, what the hay, eh? We've been doing it so they don't have to for so long, everyone's hip to the game. They may as well just jump in with both feet now, so to speak.

Hi Charlene. Thanks for post #88. It's a good one.

I probably have a thicker skin than you have (at least about this stuff) but it seems to me that Prup is a lot more misinformed and confused than vicious or malicious.

It seems to me that he came in to ask a question, phrased it clumsily perhaps, and started a bit of a firefight. He caught a bunch of flak from all directions, tried to return a bit of it, saw more incoming, realized what he had started and bowed out as graciously as possible.

Trolls don't do that. They pick out the one or two least difficult "opponents" and ignore the rest, and they keep the firefight going for as long as they can.

I think Prup was sincere when he said "WE HAVE TO WIN THIS" and I also think that he represents a large number of people whose hearts are in the right place but who are seriously misinformed. I think a lot of those people would be willing to work with us if we could somehow find a way to let that happen.

Don't get me wrong; I disagree with most of what Prup said and I was quite clear about that in my comments to him. But there's a big difference between disagreeing with somebody and calling him an asshole or an idiot. Prup disagreed with a lot of us but he didn't call anyone any names as far as I can remember.

However ... I ripped up his name in my first response to him and I am not particularly proud of that. Oh well. Harsh words are sometimes spoken when they are not warranted, and I think we have to cut one another some slack when that happens. At least I hope you will cut me some.

Also: it is very easy to misread people over the net; it happens all the time and it is quite possible that I misread Prup and that you have it right / had it right all along. We shall see ...

My main reason for starting this thread was not to immortalize Prup or the firefight he started, but to try to get past the firefight and figure out what we can learn from Prup's initial question, and what we can do better.

In the back of my mind is a concern that we don't often mention (but that doesn't make it any less valid):

There are a lot more people reading than commenting on this blog (on any blog), and there are always new people coming here for the first time. There are certainly many who come here for election coverage, but who have no knowledge of the PNAC or the Wellstone assassination, for example ... and who therefore share Prup's opinions about 9/11 and a good many other issues.

As you mentioned, 42% of us now know (or suspect) that 9/11 was a black op. We're talking about members of the other 58% now. That's a lot of people.

If we can somehow help those people to educate themselves without making them feel threatened, then we will have done very well indeed. Yes, it's hard to do, but if we can manage to save our fire for the truly malicious visitors, and treat the simply misinformed ones a bit more generously, that would be a big step in the right direction, IMVHO.

COMMENT #102 [Permalink]
... big dan said on 7/15/2006 @ 9:52 pm PT...

Hey big dan, I have the link for you. Read this thread over at 911 blogger particularly the comments by "still here" and anonymous's reference to WWIII. These guys really hit the nail on the head and provided sources.

http://www.911blogger.co...-war-in-middle-east.html

I think Chris Hooten is partying at DemocracyFest.... I used the word "perspicacious" on another thread, and not a peep from him.

#106 WP

Prup was not treated poorly here.
He has his own blog & even plugged it--so he was no innocent virgin offering his opinion to be treated with kid gloves, even though I saw some taking great pains to put them on. I don't recall anyone calling him "names" or ganging up on him.

He did come away learning you don't get a second chance to make a first impression---ironically, that's the lesson he thought he came here to teach us.
Well, well.
It's a deep one..

We aren't even going to send him a bill for our trouble.

My opinion on the subject of Brad's Blog: If it ain't broken, don't fix it.

Looks like whatever Brad has done so far has been ok--considering his national attention & all. He has less time to do it now though.
If the blog were huge, it might lose the trust it has enjoyed. Too many voices that may or may not be truthful, not enough time to check out what they say.

It's overlooked that pushin & pokin the newcomers & them pushin & pokin back serves the function of seeing what they're made of before being accepted into the group. It's lesson one in Group Dynamics class.
The blog would not be what it is without the trust--& Brad's threads are always first rate there.

Although I see why Brad may want it bigger & that's legit. It's his.

Since this is the subject--I think in-jokes that no one understands but the regulars discourages new visitors IF it goes on & on too many entries. You are forced to read this while trying to find the interesting stuff.
I also think people like to be privy to the occasional spat. They can be interesting, entertaining, AND educational.

People come here to get the skinny from those that can be trusted--especially on election fraud.
That trust is the best way to introduce them to the rest of the horror show that has become our government.
They CAN take it. They MUST if we are to overcome.

Chris Hooten rocks. He has perspicuous perspicacity, or should I say perspicacious perspicuity? He still rocks.

99 #108
I didn't have to look it up because I already knew it.

Hah.

Ok, That's not true. Good set of words. This was the most clear def:
----------
A perceptive person understands something readily or intuitively: So you realized I had lost? That was very perceptive of you. A percipient person is similar, but notices whatever it is quickly: The youngest members of the class were often the most percipient.

A perspicacious person is one who discerns or who understands something without needing an explanation: He was a perspicacious student of human nature, and knew how we would react. A perspicuous person is easy to understand: We then heard Anna's account, which although long was wonderfully clear and perspicuous.
----------
-- Chris Hooten
Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't know these words. I kind of doubt it, though.

(Yes, I was partying at democracyfest. Maybe I'll post some about it later. I did talk with Brad, and meet Barbara Jacobson, The lady that requested the hand count. That was cool being able to thank her. You might even get to see my ugly mug here sometime.)

Charlene

I don't think there is an "in" crowd here, and I don't think people having fun together across the blog is off-putting to newcomers. When I first got here, everyone was very friendly with me, and I liked the humor between commenters. Plus, Prup has taken a plenty harsh-enough pummelling for blundering in the way he did, and Winter Patriot has made some very fine points above. Truly, we all feel the pressure and the horror and the urgency and the frustration, but we do not have to keep wailing on him for days on end. He had an idea he was making unpopular points, but I don't think he had any idea he would offend so much. Please ease up on him.

Chris Hooten: Yer mug can't be ugly! (Was that percipient of me, or what?)

I'm about to be a snoring woman in bed.

Here's Mark Knopfler for anyone in the mood.

Big Dan, i know all about American Free Press, they are pretty good. and i agree %100 when you talk about being labeled "anti semitic" when you speak honestly about the disturbing policies of the Israeli leadership and military. if you speak honestly about the Israeli conflict, you will no doubt be called anti-semitic. this is by design of course, its similiar to calling anyone who questions our electoral process or the events of 9/11 "conspiracy theorists".it just doesnt effect me anymore. ive been called "tinfoil hatter" and "anti semitic" enough times where it just doesnt even bother me anymore.recently, i was talking about how disgusted i was that Israel is killing innocent civilians in Lebanon and punishing the whole country for Hezbollahs actions. half the country doesnt even support Hezbollah, yet Israel punishes the entire country by bombing airports,bridges etc. i was called anti-semitic for this honest statement.people who resort to those type of tactics are not worth reaching anyway. they will forever stay locked in their "safe" little simplistic views of the world.

I know its a hot button topic but how about a thread so we can have an honest discussion about Israel? It would have to be monitored closly for bigoted comments but I think its something that needs to be discussed. Or lets just have at it now..

OK, today I woke up, and in our local newspaper I quote, "Fueling fears that the conflict could spill over into regional strife, Ilraeli officials asserted that Iranian personnel had helped fire a missile Friday that crippled an Israeli naval vessel off the coast of Lebanon and killed at least one sailor. Israel and the United States have accused Iran, Hezbollah's chief patron, of bearing ultimate responsibility for the Shiite Muslim group's actions."

Was I right? We're going to hear every day, that Iran is really behind this. It's the "backdoor plan" to get us into Iran. Israel is comlicit, too. They want us to attack Iran.

Call me crazy, but I don't think Hezbollah or Iran have the ability to sink an Israeli warship.

AGAIN...the MSM isn't questioning Bushco and the Israeli's assertion that Iran is somehow behind this.

AGAIN...the MSM will be complicit into getting us into another war like the Iraq War.

IT'S HAPPENING AGAIN...it's a genius idea, this "back door" plan by Bushco and the Israeli's.

You heard it from me first. I consider myself somewhat of a media analysis expert, and this is SO OBVIOUS...what's going on.

Check out that thread I gave ya big dan it really is good.

What does everyone think of "fake terror"?

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/ARTICLE5/

Doug, do you agree that in EVERY article about this Israeli conflict, the MSM goes out of their way to mention that Iran is behind it?

I think fake terror happens quite often to justify illegitamite actions. I like WRH, I think he does a pretty good job of covering alot of the issues we are talking about in this thread.

Doug, do you agree that in EVERY article about this Israeli conflict, the MSM goes out of their way to mention that Iran is behind it?

Yes I think the msm has utterly failed us and is now just a propaganda tool for our corrupt goernment.

Another thing Ive always found interesting is how people keep referring to Israel as our ally. I wrote this E-mail to the Ed Schultz show in response to a caller.

A caller referred to Israel as our ally, you did not correct the listener so I am going to assume you are unaware that there is no "treaty of alliance" or "mutual defense pact" between the U.S. and Israel. Ray Mcgovern was curious as to why this was, since we often refer to them as an ally and yet technically they are not. This is what he found. Israel does not want it for several reasons.
1) "they (Israel) would have to define their borders #1, something they have always been hesitant to do."
2) it may "inhibit their freedom of action"
3) "they would be afraid there would be constraints on their use of the incredible weaponry that we’ve put at their disposal."
Ray continued to say "Israel is confident they can get what they want from this country without an alliance, why run the risk of tying their hands in any way."
If you want to hear this for yourself go to

http://www.iamthewitness...com/Smith31Jan2006_1.mp3.

These comments are at the end of the first segment. As a word of warning I personally have a tremendous amount of respect for Ray Mcgovern but the host is an egotistic, offensive, bigot so I would suggest skipping his comments.

Thank you, Doug Johnson

Doug, good link. They're saying what I'm saying. The blogosphere stopped Bushco/Israel from an Iran War, so Israel is pulling out all the stops. What greater act of desparation can be done by Israel to egg us into a war with Iran, than what's going on right now? Does everyone realise this came out of nowhere? Jon Stewart pointed this out on the Daily Show. He said, one day nothing, then WWIII, out of nowhere. This is such an obvious setup, we're not in 2nd grade on this blog.

Watch Iran mentioned in EVERY MSM story on this in print and on TV.

THEY'RE DOING IT AGAIN!!!!!

Next, Bushco will say, "we have no choice but to aid Israel and attack Iran." You watch.......it's going to happen, while the MSM cheerleads us into it, like their leadup to the Iraq War.

Agreed, I wonder if the sheep will see through it. One good thing may result from this, the truth about Israel may finally start being discussed.

Lieberman suspects Iran is behind Hezbollah's actions:

http://www.wtnh.com/Glob...p?S=5153210&nav=3YeX

The following is a MUST READ by everyone here, who doesn't think Israel has something to do with U.S. policy towards the Arabs in the Middle East. It has links to about 50 Israeli news articles egging us to engage in war against the Arabs. That is not American interests, that's Israeli interests. What does Bushco get out of it? They, too, benefit, at the cost of American soldiers' lives, because they get the PNAC plan of having Bushco's hand on the Middle East oil spigot. It's a match made in heaven, with the MSM complicit in cheerleading the whole thing:

http://www.whatreallyhap...om/priceofyourchild.html

I didn't even see this open thread sneak in here. Why didn't you BASTARDS tell me??? (smiley face) I got in around comment 90!!!

If we publicize that we know what's going on, that is the best defense of getting us into a war with Iran. Watch how the media "morphs" this Israeli conflict into a war with us and Iran, the same way Bushco and the media "morphed" Osama/9-11 into Sadaam/Iraq!!!

How do we publicize it when the MSM wont touch it we'd either be painted as anti-semitic or conspiracy wackos for suggesting it. Still doing nothing isnt an option either. Spread the word to all blogs, E-mail your freinds, write congress and letters to the editor, post signs on roadways, take to the street Erma.

Doug,
Re "...we'd either be painted as anti-semitic or conspiracy wackos for suggesting it..."
Anyone who spoke up about election fraud was branded as a conspiracy wacko from the outset; now the truth of it is slowly creeping into the mainstream. Who cares what insults they throw? It only shows their true colors.

What I really wanted to say:
Miss Persistent, Agent99 & other Gore/Edwards/Feingold fans...

"Gore wins big in AlterNet's presidential straw poll while Hillary trails badly..."

"More than 13,000 readers cast their straw vote in AlterNet's reader survey and poll conducted during the last two weeks of June. Readers came out in droves to state their preference for Al Gore as Democratic Presidential candidate for 2008.

Gore, whose popularity appears to be growing with the success of his documentary, An Inconvenient Truth, received 35 percent of the vote, followed by Senator Russ Feingold at 20 percent and former vice presidential candidate John Edwards at 11 percent. Wesley Clark received 4 percent, and John Kerry and Mark Warner 2 percent..."
link

Believe me Joan Im used to it, Ive been on board with this and the other hot topics for five years now. I was not implying we shouldnt do anything, more that that is what we can probably expect. Which is no different than usual.

Although!! Re this same poll...
"The Best Blog award went to the Daily Kos with 31 percent, followed by Crooks and Liars with 18 percent"

...so while I'm happy Gore is in the lead in this particular alternate universe (please note how well I controlled my innate pun-impulse there), obviously there is something SERIOUSLY wrong with this poll!!

Doug,
Yes, I figured I wasn't saying anything you didn't already know.

This is scary, this whole thing is ramping up really quick. I think they want to hit us with an upper cut before we have time to think or spread the word.

The Israelis MUST CLEAN HOUSE FOR THEIR OWN SURVIVAL, SO GO KICK M.F. ASS !

dkos & huffinton post stink

Doug, publicize it by sending out emails and posting on blogs and writing to your local newspaper.

Just by pointing this out, it is easy to see. When I pointed this out, wasn't it clear what's going on? Just point it out as much as possible. The blogosphere pointed out the MSM/Bushco drumbeat for their first attempt on a war with Iran, and it failed. Tell your spouse and friends, that's a start.

I pointed this out to my wife this morning, and she said it's very clear what's going on, once it's pointed out. War on behalf of either the Israeili's or Arabs is not in OUR best interests (and we always side with Israel). We're always getting our soldiers killed on their behalf, that's what's going on. We're paying over 50% of our federal tax money for this shit (truemajority.org), while cutting funding for college aid for our kids, medicare, and medicaid. The "government within a government", Bushco, is a runaway government with no ties to what we want and need.

Heebs Got Balls !

I just sent this to my Senator big dan

Statement of U.S. Senator Russ Feingold
On the Hezbollah Attacks on Israel
July 14, 2006

I stand firmly with the people of Israel and their government as they defend themselves against these outrageous attacks. The kidnapping of Israeli soldiers and missile attacks against Israeli citizens are unacceptable and cannot be tolerated. The first steps toward establishing peace must begin with the unconditional and immediate return of the kidnapped Israeli soldiers. Lebanon, Syria, Iran and countries throughout the region must also condemn the actions of Hezbollah, Hamas, and other groups committed to blocking the peace process and must take strong actions to return stability to the region immediately.

Dear Senator, while I usually agree with your stance on most issues I believe you are in grave error supporting Israel's action against Lebanon. Israel has been goading its neighbors for the past several weeks into attacking them. Don't read MSM sources they are biased toward Israel. The Neo-cons and Israel are one. This is the excuse this administration has been looking for to go full tilt into the Middle East. I am sure by now you are familiar with the PNAC agenda. I strongly disagree with your stance to side with Israel; we are likely seeing the beginning of WWIII. Please look further into Israel's past actions and their present intentions. Ask yourself why there exists no treaty of alliance between the U.S. and Israel. Ask Ray Mcgovern 27 year CIA analyst if you do not know the answers. Israel is committing outrageous attacks, Israel needs to take strong actions to stabilize the region also!

Israel using posion gas and DU??

http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/

How credible is this source anyone know?

Here you go! From Raw Story: Gingrich calling for WWIII, Bush should say we're in WWIII. Gingrich wants war, the Republicans want war.

http://www.rawstory.com/comments/16573.html

Is there anything we can do? I know I'll be called Anti-semetic, but I believe the Israeli government and the US government are the terrorists in all of this since 9-11. I believe they are in cahoots with our government in starting all the shit in the ME to start Armageddon. It is not the peoples of the country's its our governments. We are manipulated thru ads that are brought to us by test panels who pick our brains. I believe consumerism and mass consumption are evil. What I still do not understand, is it about Money or Power? How much in enough for these people? Why do they want to kill off so many people? Why? If we the people of all countries are dead because of the environment where will they live? Underground? With all their riches, is that how they want to live their lives? What is the end game. To wipe all peoples off the face of the earth? Again I ask why? I DO NOT WANT MY KIDS TO DIE IN THE Middle East, for a lie because people refuse to wake up. I feel in my daily life a shift, people are talking and other people are LISTENING and even joining in the conversation. People that a year ago couldn't have cared less what was happening in their own backyards let alone globally. The only thing is do we have enough time for an AWAKENING in the masses? Look at how long it took for Voting issues to come to the center stage. It has been a rough two years since my own awakening but I refuse to stick my head back in the sand no matter how frustrating it all seems. I guess we just have to keep talking, piqueing peoples interest in WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING. Regards, the tin foil hat conspiracy theorist

Can anyone stop these fuckers???

Gingrich was on Meet the Press this morning, pressing for war.

WHO IS COMPLICIT IN THE MSM, LINING UP THESE WARMONGERS ON CORPORATE TELEVISION, WITH NO OTHER VIEWS OR REBUTTLES???

The difference, NOW, is that we know their games, and we know what they're doing. THEY'RE DOING IT AGAIN!!!

The MSM will show NO ONE against a war. They did it for the Iraq War. FAIR (Fairness and accuracy in media), documented that the MSM had over 90% pro-warmongers on TV, and it's happening again. The MSM is complicit in all of this.

I hope so Big Dan, I wonder are there not any people in our government with any integrity or scruples? People who need to step up for humanity. Where are these people?

One more post, before I go out and enjoy this beautiful day. We all said, something big was going to happen before the November elections by Bushco... THIS IS IT!!!

To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time for every purpose under heaven

A time to be born, a time to die
A time to plant, a time to reap
A time to kill, a time to heal
A time to laugh, a time to weep

To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time for every purpose under heaven

A time to build up, a time to break down
A time to dance, a time to mourn
A time to cast away stones
A time to gather stones together

To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time for every purpose under heaven

A time of war, a time of peace
A time of love, a time of hate
A time you may embrace
A time to refrain from embracing

To everything - turn, turn, turn
There is a season - turn, turn, turn
And a time for every purpose under heaven

A time to gain, a time to lose
A time to rend, a time to sew
A time to love, a time to hate
A time of peace, I swear it's not too late!

from wikipedia

#142 SLUG: what KIND OF FUCKING BULLSIT IS THIS, IN YOUR FACE ANSWER ME !!

Im asking you sludge of sludges, is it a credible source or not.

sludge did you forget your meds this morning??

NO SLUG, I Took my Meds This Morning. As far as I'm Concerned wayne madeson is Fuck'en Booooooolshit...

So you had to resort to name calling and Caps to give me your opinion, unless I hear otherwise I going to assume your a shill/troll. I'm done with you JOJ.

Sorry if I watered down some exclaiming or edited your comment a bit, but I had to find the culprit that knocked the page out of whack. And, boy, I wish I wasn't hearing this news. I wish Big Dan had just been whistling Dixie. I wish Gingrich had never been born. If wishes were fishes beggars would ride.... Something like that.

Doug and Judge of Judges

No, JoJ is not a shill/troll, but he does seem upset.

There were question marks in #142... looks like sincere question to me.

Stop scrapping over little stuff. Stop scrapping. Everyone's upset.

This flaming does not help.

Breathe!

YES doug, I'm Trolling for the Truth : & BULLSHIT IS BULLSHIT !!!

Alright 99 I'm still here, so is it a bad source that was my origonal question if so then lets note that this stuff is out there. It was posted on another blog if there any truth to it I want to know. If not I want to know that too.

Doug

Well, I'll go look and give you my take on it, but Wayne Madsen doesn't have a good reputation for reliability. He's trying to do good, I think, but he's also trying to sensationalize to the max, and, before even looking, I can tell you, you should reserve judgment on what he says if you don't already know of its basis in fact.

Nuff said,thanks.

Doug

Okay, straight up, he says "our sources" and doesn't name them. Not a good sign. Everyone knows Israel wouldn't sign the chemical/biological weapons treaty, and that they have reserved that atrocity for possible use. Everybody knows we supply them with arms, and everybody knows we have carpeted Iraq with DU. So it is possible that Madsen's report has some basis in fact, but it is more probable that he's inflated this report with so much hyperbole that you can't rely on it.

This is why I've been griping about the inability to discuss the awful actions of the Israelis (as a nation, not as a people) and Zionists without being called racist or anti-Semitic. We need to be able to talk about this stuff, precisely so that we can be guarded against this kind of reportage.

My two cents.

Thank you, both, for desisting in your dispute.

Agent99 - Are u on the Payroll ? ? ?

JoJ, yes, and I'm so rich I'm starving to death!

Thanks 99, I dont want to hurt the credibility of this blog with mis. info., My sources for news are typically Bradblog, Rawstory, Buzzflash, WRH, and 911 blogger. So Im not familiar with alot of these other sites. So I ask. Sorry to set you off JOJ that was not my intent.

LOL - Air Cond/Heat (OR) Good Food (OR) Fun . . . . . I Hair Ya . . .

Thanks, 99, for stamping out the testy sparks here
(blessed are the peacemakers)
For what it's worth, Doug, I recall Brad saying (it's somewhere in the archives) that the wm site (#142) was not to be trusted.

Doug - In My opinion you are ENTITLED to your input "pal" . . . . . What happens after that is another story . . .

I guess I have been advertizing for John Dean a lot lately, but he is one of the kind of conservatives I really admire. He puts the truth, and our country, ahead of partisan politics. Raw Story has a video of Keith Olberman's interview with him about his new book that I think really goes a long way to help put things in perspective. I hope anyone who hasn't seen it will check it out here.

I can't remember the last book I read . . . . . But, I want to read John Dean's new book . . .

When Israel launches an attack the bomb starts it flight path from the good old USA and tracks around the world only to explode in Gaza or Lebanon ... but nobody notices because it makes a stop off so the "made in the USA" sticker can be replaced with an IDF one ... sick

"I am almost certain these pictures won't be published in the West, although they are associated press pictures."
http://angryarab.blogspo...ived-these-pictures.html

http://www.axisoflogic.c...lish/article_22471.shtml
Psychology of the Long War

COERCION
fighting them over there ... bastards

AIPAC trial delayed again
The trial of two former AIPAC staffers was postponed again.

Federal Judge T.S. Ellis of the Alexandria, Va. district court agreed this week to postpone the classified information leak trial for the third time. The government and defense are still negotiating what evidence may be unclassified for trial use in the case against Steve Rosen, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee’s former foreign policy chief, and Keith Weissman, its former Iran analyst.

Ellis will announce the new date next week. The defense wants the trial to start in October; the prosecution has asked for a delay until January, a year after the trial was supposed to start.

THERE was ruin and terror in Manhattan, but, over the Hudson River in New Jersey, a handful of men were dancing. As the World Trade Centre burned and crumpled, the five men celebrated and filmed the worst atrocity ever committed on American soil as it played out before their eyes.

Who do you think they were? Palestinians? Saudis? Iraqis, even? Al-Qaeda, surely? Wrong on all counts. They were Israelis – and at least two of them were Israeli intelligence agents, working for Mossad, the equivalent of MI6 or the CIA.

http://www.sundayherald.com/37707

mmediately following the attacks, the Zionist controlled media was filled with stories linking the attacks to Bin Laden. TV talking-heads and scribblers of every stripe spoon-fed a gullible American public a steady diet of the most outrageous propaganda imaginable. We were told that the reason bin Laden attacked the USA was because he hates our “freedom” and “democracy”. The Muslims were “medieval” and they wanted to destroy us because of our wealth. But Bin Laden strongly denied any role in the attacks and suggested that Zionists orchestrated the 9-11 attacks:

“I was not involved in the September 11 attacks in the United States nor did I have knowledge of the attacks. There exists a government within a government within the United States. The United States should try to trace the perpetrators of these attacks within itself; to the people who want to make the present century a century of conflict between Islam and Christianity. That secret government must be asked as to who carried out the attacks … The American system is totally in control of the Jews, whose first priority is Israel, not the United States.”

http://www.ilaam.net/Sept11/ZionistDid911.html

A one stop shop for Isrealii atrocities Link

If you have the time and inclination 1hr 10min documentary about 9-11. Its very enlightening, about the media and our government and more lies then you can shake a stick at. link http://video.google.com/...q=label%3Apsychoceramics

LY-MF-AO * The Johnny Lightning Show * Lefty Radio from the right coast * Streaming Live *

Sundays * 8 PM EST * 7 PM FOT (Fly Over Time) * 6 PM PT * 7.415 Mhz Intnl. SW @ WBCQ & Now @ :

http://69.93.242.138/

P.S. Election Fraud: is a recognized issue with Johnny !

Holy cow! I go away for a few hours and I miss a fisticuffs and all!

I must admit to being rather ignorant on this whole Israeli thing. Religious wars just don't make sense to me, and I must admit to not following it very closely.

But I do remember what a great ally Israel was back in '67: Attack on the USS Liberty

And Gingrich hyping up WWIII as a political move to make it look good when they steal the Nov elections is beyond sick.

Bluebear2 endure one hour and ten minutes and watch the google.video linked by "COMMENT #175 [Permalink]
... Laura said on 7/16/2006 @ 4:35 pm PT..."

for a very small part of the story...

I'll be back in a minute ,some art student is justing knocking at the front door ...

MMIIXX & Laura

Is there another version where I can scroll through and read it at my own pace?. The computer voice thing is annoying, and I can read much faster than it scrolls. Got about 15 min. into it and so far nothing new to me. The one comment about the Zionist friendly judge leads me to believe they have a tie in, but it is so hard to listen to. I guess I'll have to take it in several sessions.

I have no doubt it was a PNAC attack to launch us into the mideast in quest of oil.

Agent99: You wish Big Dan was just whistling Dixie? (lol, I cannot picture that!) I was unaware you can edit this site. You have something to do with Brad Blog? btw, just got back from enjoying this beautiful day. And I got sunburned!

Agent 99: "Veee don't Vistle Dixie here in CHAOS!!!"

So, I'm not sure, but can you see this Israeli conflict "morphing" into us attacking Iran? I don't put anything past these creeps. Lots of good posts here, btw. Was there fisticuffs? WhaddImiss???

Big Dan said:

"...can you see this Israeli conflict "morphing" into us attacking Iran?"

That's what worries me and Gingrich isn't making me feel any better!

Bluebear2
not that I can find ,annoying aye?

CNN are saying
hezbolla fires missiles at haifi that are made made/supplied by iran and that the explosives are made/supplied by syria

WTF

let me guess north korea made/supplied the missile crews lunch .
trifecta

Big Dan

KAOS, obviously, has reasserted itself since Max, the great Agent 86, of "Get Smart" fame, decided to go into semi-retirement. I am way so, way, not happy with this state of affairs. I had to wish you were whistling Dixie, but it's not looking good. I think Seymour Hersh's article a couple months ago, exposing *'s desire to nuke Iran, really did knock them back into some sort of Plan B, and this ugly scene where any hope for anything resembling co-existence is hanging by a mere thread.

Gingrich's fat mouth could have no possible other effect than to fan the flames. They don't just fear-monger at home. They have the entire Middle East in a constant state of panic, and their shit about democratizing the region is just that. Shit.

I can really see why tempers would be short today! We just all have to breathe, shake off our horror enough to still be able to function, and get along, and put our heads together for solutions. Personally, I do not think there is any possible solution short of ousting this entire administration, and at least half of congress. Very scary people have learned to game our system, and they MUST be knocked back off their pins fast. That makes our work for election integrity in November even more essential. Heck, November may be too late!

I don't know their role, but I sure can say that Zionists have been helping to fan these flames any way they can. Bad news at Black Rock... or Green and Gold Rock... I'm hoping, please, please, please, that everyone pulls together on this. And, it is my personal opinion that we ought to be banging the drums for Al Gore, not banging the drums for war.

I have something to do at Brad Blog, and it soothes my aching heart.

When is CNN going to trot out Ken Timmerman? (pro-Iran warmonger) Talking about Bush morphing this Israeli conflict into a war with Iran and 9/11 are volatile subjects. They already did it once. publicizing that they are doing it again is the best defense.

I like Wayne Madsen, for what it's worth. He often says "sources", but so does Seymour Hersch. A good investigative journalist doesn't reveal his sources, especially if they are his bread and butter. Wayne Madsen gets you thinking, and that's good. I think he has a lot of good stuff on his website. Deep throat was an unnamed source. We saw what happened there. I think the best think Wayne Madsen does, it get you thinking out of the box.

As far as 9/11 goes, I think there are two distinct parts: Is the story the government told us true? And part II is "who did it, then?"

I think it's been proven with overwhelming evidence, that the story our government told us is not true. Dr. Steve Jones' research is strictly disproving the story our government told us. He never goes into the 2nd question, "who did it, then?"

I don't think it's been proven who did it, but I think it's been proven beyond a doubt our government lied to us.

That being said, I believe Bushco was in on it, but like I said, it's not been proven. I think with all the evidence I've seen, and using my brain, it seems the most likely that Bushco was at least involved. I also think more than Bushco was involved, it wasn't only Bushco. Can you put it past Bushco? Seeing all the lies they've told us? And Bush's reaction readin "My Pet Goat?" I don't have to be a psychiatrist, that was not how someone would react to being told we are under attack. His reaction was the reaction of someone who was in on it.

The story our government told us is a fairy tale, when you compare it to the scientists, engineers, witnesses, and scholars's proof and unanswered questions. And the MSM has not examined any of these valid questions, which is very strange.

Why did WTC-7 fall, and why was it not mentioned in the 9/11 commission report? Why did 3 skyscrapers fall all in one day, and none before or since? Why hasn't there been a terror atttack (not one!) since 9/11? Why didn't Bush/Cheney keep 3,000 Americans safe on 9/11? Why weren't the planes intercepted? Why is there no debris of the planes at any of the sites? That's a killer, there's not debris at 3 separate sites, probably the first time that ever happened, and it never happened before or since, either. I mean, just use your brain. You have to be a complete idiot to believe the story our government told us. You don't have to be a genius. If their story made sense, I'd say so, and I'd believe them.

The genre Wayne Madsen reports on, cannot be proven immediately. Same thing with that Cloak & Dagger guy Skulnick. If what they are reporting is true, they really couldn't name their sources.

9/11 is a different story. There is evidence by scientists, physicists, engineers, etc... There is PROOF! Same thing with e-vote machines: there is PROOF! They are not conspiracy theories. Bev Harris, Brad, and a host of others have PROVEN that e-vote machines are hackable. Statisticians have proven through statistics, that the vote totals were close to impossible. That is why I cannot understand why e-vote machines are not pulled out of use, and why the MSM doesn't report consistenly on it, and why the MSM coverage of our government's 9/11 story being disproven is not covered. The 9/11 truth movement is getting huge, and the MSM is ignoring it.

Big Dan

There is about a bagillion light years' difference between Sy Hersh not naming sources and Wayne Madsen not naming them. First off, the nameless attributions are always identified in terms of what specific direction they are coming from in serious reportage. To just plain say "sources" can, and very often does, mean "sources from within my own overheated brain"... and that is SOMETIMES the bottom line with Madsen. Like I said earlier. I think his motives are good, or that he wants good things, but one really cannot deny his sensationalizing and self-promoting any longer. He is worth a look for anyone wanting to get an idea of the unofficial line, but NOT if they're going to swallow what he says hook, line and sinker. But, actually, why go to that trouble when there are far more reliable sources? You've even mentioned some of them.

BlueBear2, Turn down the volume read at your own pace, then when the video comes up turn your volume up. After the video loads you can use the slider on the bottom to speed your reading. Good luck I think its worth reading. I agree about the voice synthesizer its really annoying!

Big Dan, Cloak and Dagger got hacked again today,its been unavailable all day. If what their saying is not true then why do they keep getting hacked?

Agent99 #112

Speaking of "tempers" being "short today", nothing was said about "in-crowd" & nothing was said about "people having fun".
I was speaking of "in-JOKES".
I said not just one "in-JOKE", but those that go ON & ON are not helpful for new visitors.
An "in-joke" is one that only a certain few understand the 'funniness' of--because it's between them alone.
Jokes that all can understand are always welcome--as is fun.
Private jokes are better left for private converations--not a blog.
I must point out to you that WinterPatriot ASKED for our opinions re what is helpful for the blog.
So I gave mine.
I must also point out to you that WinterPatriot ASKED me about Pru{p --99}.
So I answered him.
Click on by if you don't want to read my comments.

Charlene

Obviously, I do want to read your comments. I'm sorry if I offended you. You have been sounding extremely angry for a couple days, and even Winter Patriot apologized for calling Prup names. You're still doing it. It is against The Brad Blog policy.

Now I think I know what the preznit has in mind when he "thinks" about democracy in Iraq, and why he thinks things are going so well:

U.S. Comptroller General David Walker told Congress last week that 'massive corruption' and 'a lot of theft going on' in Iraq’s government-controlled oil industry is hampering the country’s ability to govern itself"

(link here). That explains why Bush thinks Iraq "democracy" is a lot like his view of what American democracy is, and why he thinks things are going so well.

Hey, "as long as oil is going up in price, things must be going great" is the motto of Bush style oil barons.

Laura, I agree. I'm saying, places like Wayne Madsen and Cloak and Dagger, are extemely interesting, thought-provoking sites. Since I deal in proof, logic, and using my brain, I'm not going out on a limb and saying that everything sites like those 2 say, are true. But they may be true. It's the genre of sites like that. Their forte is the espionage world, and things like that are not as simple as proving e-vote fraud and 9/11. But I think sites like that are important, and some of the things they report on turn out to be true, but much later on. They go out on a limb to make claims we should all consider and think about, but it's a totally different genre than say Brad Blog and Raw Story. You can't dismiss these sites because they say "sources", that's painting things black and white. All or nothing. I think you have to treat sites like that differently, and not just believe everything they say, OR dismiss everything they say. Sites like those are definitely beneficial, because they get you to think about things you would otherwise never think about, know about, or ever consider. Sites like those 2 serve a purpose, but cannot be compared to Brad Blog and Raw Story. I think it's a "good thing" to read those sites.

Here's a good way to put it: sites like those make you aware of the possibility of things you would never even think about. And crazy things, like what they report on, do happen and do exist. Are you saying the world of espionage does not exist? If it exists, then things that they say could happen or be happening, and we should all consider that those things are possibly happening right now. If we all knew the details of things like psyops, it would be like some kind of unbelievable movie. But it is happening, and if it was reported on, it would look much like Wayne Madsen or Cloak and Daggar. What are you saying it would look like, to be more credible? You can't really prove it, but it's happening. That's the nature of sites like that.

I meant to direct those comments to agent99, not Laura.

Charlene said "if it's not broke don't fix it" and I don't believe the blog is "broke" but that's no excuse for ignoring opportunities to improve it.

So thanks again to everyone who made comments about how we can improve the blog. All your comments are valuable to us and some have already sparked subtle changes in the way things are being done behind the scenes.

This thead is getting a bit long in the tooth but there is a newer open thread here.

Laura and MMIIXX

Thanks, I'll try and bear with it.

{ED NOTE: Comment deleted. Gratuitous vitriol. Deliberately using a sarcastic version of someone's screen name to demean them counts as calling them names. --99}

The Cat is back :

http://www.bigmagic.com/pages/blackj/condi2.jpg

Huzzah!! Long Live The Cat!!

Yipes! JoJ! That's some scary stuff!!!!!!!!!! I thought you meant Brad.

{Comment Deleted by Agent 99}

#199
*urp*
*blah*
*BLECH!*
Wipes puke from lips...

Well ... A few clarifications are in order here ...

Everyone: my comment #200 ("long live the cat") was intended to refer to Brad (the cat in the title of the thread "while the cat's away") and not to the link in comment #199. I apologize for being vague about that. Truth be told, I was in a hurry because I saw that I had a chance to post the 200th comment on the thread, and a chance to say "200th" is much more valuable than a mere "FIRST", IMHO.

Charlene: I have never said anything about vitriol. So it's not fair to ask me what I am talking about. But I do know what you are talking about. It was Agent99 who edited your comment, not me. You can see that because she signed her name to the edit as "-99".

I hardly ever edit anything except to correct spelling errors and fix broken links, in which case I try to do it without leaving a trace. If I ever edit anything for content I will sign it "WP". I intend to be as fair as possible but I don't imagine for a moment that I could fill Brad's shoes.

Obviously I am not Agent99, but I think I understand what has happened here. It seems to me that it's been a great big misunderstanding, possibly over a typo that looked like something else, and I ask all involved parties to please chill until and unless I find out different.

I don't mean to make excuses, but here are the facts: Agent 99 is new at this and I am a bit rusty, having been away from the blog for six months or so. The software has changed since I last worked here and things are very different for me. And Agent99 has a lot to learn --- of course. So would anyone who was new at a job like this.

We are doing the best we can and sometimes we get things wrong. I don't think we'll ever stop making mistakes but I do expect that they will occur less frequently as we go along. I appreciate your patience and cooperation as we climb our respective learning curves, and I am certain that Brad does as well.

Judge of Judges #199

I emailed your link to a few friends because I thought the image was such a hoot, and they all very quickly came back at me with reactions very similar to:

Chris Hooten's at #203.

Guess some people's laughs are other people's gross-outs.

#199 - It always get's some reaction ( + / - ) . . . . . The Cat's @ Play . . .

I do apppreciate my spellling not be corrrected. . .

One for the road . . .

I went to a garden party to reminisce with my old friends
A chance to share old memories and play our songs again
When I got to the garden party, they all knew my name
No one recognized me, I didn't look the same

But it's all right now, I learned my lesson well.
You see, ya can't please everyone, so ya got to please yourself

People came from miles around, everyone was there
Yoko brought her walrus, there was magic in the air
'n' over in the corner, much to my surprise
Mr. Hughes hid in Dylan's shoes wearing his disguise

lott-in-dah-dah-dah, lot-in-dah-dah-dah

Played them all the old songs, thought that's why they came
No one heard the music, we didn't look the same
I said hello to "Mary Lou", she belongs to me
When I sang a song about a honky-tonk, it was time to leave

lot-dah-dah-dah (lot-dah-dah-dah)
lot-in-dah-dah-dah

Someone opened up a closet door and out stepped Johnny B. Goode
Playing guitar like a-ringin' a bell and lookin' like he should
If you gotta play at garden parties, I wish you a lotta luck
But if memories were all I sang, I rather drive a truck

lot-dah-dah-dah (lot-dah-dah-dah)
lot-in-dah-dah-dah

'n' it's all right now, learned my lesson well
You see, ya can't please everyone, so you got to please yourself

Garden Party - 1972 - Ricky Nelson - RIP

Boy, are we ever a looooooonnnnngggggg way from Ozzie and Harriet now!

{AGENT 99: Thanks for your help in fixing the quotes problem I had when I copied my post from Word to #3069. It seems the reverted since Brad's return to something even worse. I'll follow your initial advice and put it under #3070. Thinkprogress.org has something along the lines of what I was trying to put into words: "Neocons Resurrect Plans For Regional War In The Middle East"
http://thinkprogress.org...neocons-middle-east-war/ }

Once again, the “facts were fixed” ahead of time. That happened probably when they were at Camp David and had their “pose”. Bush swaggered up with the hands in the old gunslinger position. Said a word or two to the reporters, then snuck away on a different helicopter and surprised the boys in Iraq. A peculiarly excited countenance on Rumsfeld though, an aura of breathlessness of tyrannical secrets abrew, was upon him. Either that or he lost control of his bodily functions and his little shoe-boots were sloshing.

Bush wants to go to war with Iran, but it would look as uncouth as Iraq was, and we have no great wealth and won't support it. Timing for the G-8 meeting was no happenstance. (Of course, it was planned!)

Israel had been pushing and shoving a bit for some time, but no over-action until Bush was “eating pig” in Germany. Were we surprised? Not. Bush says, “Stay the course” in different words, but same. He meets privately to schmooze with Pootie, as he called his Russian friend, (attempt to work up a deal). Stepped in it a wee bit with Putin, received a public slap or two from it, but still all are smiling and laughing for the photo-op. Putin had a more professional demeanor,(a more serious face). They may have had too much of the vodka. Bush would not let Russia into the WTO however, so not “Disaster accomplished” yet.

So, it was Syria’s and Iran’s fault for everything that is happening between Israel and Lebanon. Can we wonder why protestors in Israel were screaming, “It’s George Bush! He’s the one behind all this!”

Bush would not dare to jump into a preemptive war again, Right? So, what could the maestros of this messy scene have in mind? … Anger Iran and Syria enough, perhaps, just perhaps, their foulest dreams would come true! They might attack Israel, and then, the father of all nightmares for us all. The G-8 would back Bush to begin the war on Iran and Syria that MSM has been hoping for. The first description of a missile into north Israel was that it was a “silkworm” missile. I have not heard that used since.

Coreesa has been squawking about this being their “script” for days in comments to various articles over at HuffingtonPost.com. She thinks these staged events will knock out our upcoming elections if the script is successful. She’s right!

I’ve got a question or two:

What if the Iranians and Syrians don’t act accordingly to their anticipated (psy-ops) moves and attack Israel?

What if they just sit back and watch as Bush is doing, so to speak?

What if the G-8 and the UN do not back Bush in the beginning of this war described as WWW III? Sanity and better judgment just could prevail!

99 - Ya but now we got . . . . . Ozzy and Sharon . . .

Lindy

You're very welcome, but that freezing old Winter Patriot went and put up yet another open thread, starting it out with the awfulness in the Middle East, here. So I'm going to go over there now, and link to your comment #209 here, so anybody who wants to can come read you here, and discuss it here or there. You beat everyone to the punch, but they keep not getting to hear you about it. Maybe this'll fix it!

JoJ ... Now that's comforting, innit?

agent 99

Guess who else changes reality to make themselves look good when they know they've done wrong to others, get called on it, & don't want to lose face by being honest?

Yea honey.
Bush&Co & the MSM.
Don't ever let me catch you criticizing the MSM because you're just like em with your edit/hack job.

You're a joke.

Thanks very much, Charlene. You can drop it now. Yes? Thank you!

Winter Patriot

I wondered why there was a little bracket near the end of my comment because I didn't put it there--I didn't know what it was.
I thought YOU were editing because you are writing threads.
I didn't know Agent 99 was trusted to edit Brad's blog, but that explains his/her? sudden chutzpah.
Agent 99 was an unfortunate choice.

Lindy #209

I really like the thought at the end of your comment. I think the chances of it are slim, and if sanity does prevail it will be because it has been forced upon our "administration". Putin did look sober while * and Blair made jackasses out of themselves. With the massive demonstrations against our invasion of Iraq, I can't think many in the rest of the world will want to just sit back and watch this mess devolve into an even more massive conflagration. I'm hoping each new insult will dig more whistleblowers out of the woodwork, and inspire more heroes to rise.

But, as I said on the other thread, I really wonder if we could do worse if we did let our so-called lunatics take over this asylum. The odds are not good.

#184 Agent 99

Big Dan in comment #180 said, "I'm not sure but can you see this Israeli conflict 'morphing' into us attacking Iran? I don't put anything past these creeps."

You answered him, "I don't know their role, but I sure can say that ZIONISTS have been helping to fan these flames any way they can."

Can you give us the source that you base your belief on?

I looked up "Zionism" & its a world-wide Jewish movement for the establishment & development of the state of Israel.

Winter Patriot says we don't just give opinions here, but must back them up with sources.
Thanks.

Hi, Charlene

It looks like you have posted the same question on multiple threads so I gather it must be urgent. Agent 99 is sleeping and I don't want to make you wait until she wakes up ... so I have taken the liberty of answering your questions here.

There is a new open thread.