READER COMMENTS ON
"Kucinich to Withdraw Co-Sponsorship of Holt Election Reform Bill"
(12 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
said on 6/11/2007 @ 6:37 pm PT...
I am unclear on what specifically Kucinich is objecting in the Holt Bill that is causing him to withdraw this support. I also don't see any clear info on when his bill is going to go through all the committees etc it has to and if it has any chance of making it for the 2008 elections. Does anyone have any news on that?
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
said on 6/11/2007 @ 7:16 pm PT...
Well look at Kucinich's HR 6200 (Hand counted paper ballots) and you have a big head start on what his problems are with HR 811. The Kucinich press release also states "The key to engaging voters” Kucinich stated emphatically “is complete credibility of the electoral process. I plan to continue my oversight hearings on election integrity.”"
But beyond that, he generally wants activist concerns dealt with. Uh, that would mean bradblog's concerns, Bev Harris's concerns, Paul Lehto's concerns, Nancy Tobi's concerns, Teresa Hommel's concerns, Voterunites' councerns, MaryAnn Gould's concerns, Mark Crispin Miller's concerns, and your concerns Michelle, if you have them. You know, like a government that cares, instead of like Holt's office.
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 6/11/2007 @ 7:41 pm PT...
So some of you arrr making it harder for a trans-national corporate machine's candidate to win now. WAssup with dat? Being stupid pays is spades right Republican and Republidems?
i think Americans basically all believe the same. We collectively believe in a man in the sky who will watch over "US" as in the united states. Did you ever wonder why us and US are the same letters? It's because the United States is special. It's because this guy in the sky can be black for black people, white for white, and he can look mexican-chinese for mexican chinese Americans.
Best of all, he's happy as shit if American continue to use 30% of all the world's energy and produce 25% of all harmful global warming gas from humans burning fossil fuel because you are all Americans.
Don't worry about anything because regardless of how humans rape and destroy this planet, in a concerted effort to destroy all the "other" species in the process, this man in the sky is gonna let all you and all Congressmen into a nicccccce place if you're good or a hot hot hotttt place if you're bad when you draw your last breath.
So no worries.
Support Cheney-Bush leadership and the anti-science lies they espout and don't worry if "us" escalates nukes. Don't worry if the world has some pent up resentment for the Bush administration using the #1 military for attacking a country based on lies to steal their oil and then continue to their illegal occupation wearing the face of death.
Don't worry about humans destroying the last wild lands on this planet, or the earth's fragile air and water system because you stupid greedy fcks who live here in power know in the big picture that you're all gonna be dead soon and you think you're going to that niccce place or you just don't care because you will be DEAD. Admit it.
Don't worry about a verifiable election for the most powerful position in US government because according to this us president, the man in the sky is talking to him. Nevermind that his party cheated to win the office he holds. Don't hold these greedy sellouts in Congress accountable for their actions just carry on with your personal life because you are sooooooo important.
Don't worry about what's going on around you outside the woes of young Ms. Hilton because the president is taking advice from his trusted friends. He's getting rid of those evil criminals who want to bombed the White House and kill the heads of the oil companies who control the world. Don't be to hard on them. They only did it because they have an inner need to make their guy in the sky happy and because just didn't like the power these rich power brokers used destructively to kill their people as us leaders lined their pockets. Oh yeh, and dey didn't liek thar freedom.
Keep allowing corporations to run the US military industrial complex without restraint and you won't need a cartoon hero or man in the sky to tell you where we're gonna be in a few short years. If some stupid dictator doesn't blow up the planet to retaliate against the Bush administration. Dick Cheney, John Ashcroft, Donald Rumsfeld, George W. Bush, Condolizza Rice, Alberto Gonzales Larry Silverstein, Rudolf Giuliani, and any anyone else i forgot to name all know something about wargames on 9/11. 9/11 was the useful masterful tool for PROJECT FOR A NEW AMERICA and forever remains the ultimate excuse for altering the US Democratic system into a muscular Fascist machine.
Study World Trade Tower Building #7 like it's a world class criminal investigation even though there has never been one and understand that Giuliani orchestrated the shipping of the forensic evidence overseas. Then move onto the Congressional testomony of why NORAD stood down. Get lost in the multiple lies, coverups, and excuses for the 4 different coordinated exercises so the East Coast would be left vunerable for Cheney's attack. Demand a private viewing of the over 100 Pentagon videos that captured the Pentagon attack. Not to say that these videos exist anymore or that you will ever get the names of "us terrorists" who confiscated mysteriously lost videos but you can always ask. This is a government of the people right? You control the government the government doesn't control you right? You don't need the permission of the guy in the sky to change the way things are done right? Then ask George Bush why he let Bin Ladens family fly out of the country the day after 9/11 with the Saudi Royal Family. It's a family affair..it's a family affair. While your at it, ask Georgee about the World Trade Tower security records from his brother Marvin who formerly was on the board of directors at that very same company coincidently. Why bomb sniffing dogs were removed from the Twin Towers weeks before? Take a look at weekend closures (records) to show when bomb experts got inide to rig the 3 World Trade Towers with explosives.
Good Work Dennis.
However special thanks for a job well done for our US VP Dick Cheney. He has a special Congression role. Your lying and committment to an anti-environmentalist agenda, not to mention your murderous wargame activities have earned you top honors under my private watch. Even if it takes history an eternity to catch up, i know what you been up to.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
said on 6/12/2007 @ 6:43 am PT...
Stalin used 100% paper ballots, yet always won by the most grandiose of margins.
He explained his consistent victories by saying "It is not who votes that counts, but who counts the votes".
Paper ballots were fine with Stalin.
And they are fine with me ... so long as the counting is not done by Stalinists.
So on to the point at hand, how do we inject honesty into this system?
Our movement is becoming a faith-based movement, if we think that the absence of honesty will be overcome with legislation.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
said on 6/12/2007 @ 7:08 am PT...
Snowballs materialize when enough snowflakes get together for a common cause. Let's hope anti-Holt bill sentiments are expressed/snowballs on Capitol Hill. We can do better than HR-811 to restore integrity to the American election process.
KKKarl Rove has his foot in the door to tamper with and manipulate the election process. That door which leads to gaming our elections ought to be slammed shut so Rove's foot never crosses that threshold again.
No loopholes for that anti-democracy fascist who hates America to his core. Rove and the Rove want-to-be soldiers are not to be trusted. They seek to contaminate the election process - we can not stand by and permit them to do that.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
said on 6/12/2007 @ 9:33 am PT...
Paper ballots are a start.
Counted by HAND, not by computerized tabulator capable of making changes in the result and/or having different rules for "rejection" based on the color of your skin or the size of our bank account.
Results posted TRANSPARENTLY at the LOCAL LEVEL so that big calculators can't change the results down at election HQ to suit the Rethuglican thieves, liars, and scum.
Election-day registration with proof of eligibility so that nobody gets disenfranchised for being poor, ethnic, or wanting to vote other than Rethuglican.
Two-(24-hour)-day election days that are FEDERAL HOLIDAYS so that people with jobs that don't give free time off can vote.
Honest recounts, not like that Rethuglican crap in Florida or Ohio.
Simple stuff, really, if you WANTED an honest and fair electoral process.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
said on 6/12/2007 @ 10:13 am PT...
For those of you who need the "elevator speech" (quick enough to explain to someone on the elevator) as to why the Holt Bill, also known as HR 811, also known as the V-CIA bill (Voter Confidence & Increased Accessibility) --- Here it is. The DRE provisions are bad, but not the worst thing about the bill. Below are the "dealbreakers":
The elevator speech -
THERE ARE THREE PROBLEMS WITH THE HOLT BILL AND ITS SENATE COMPANION BILL, THE FEINSTEIN BILL:
1) For the first time ever, FEDERALIZES requirements for secret vote counting on secret software
2) Expands and locks in the power to control elections through four White House appointees, who will be in charge of the secret vote counting software (see above)
3) Because of 1) and 2) above, the bill is not just "bad" (meaning, it can be fixed), it is DANGEROUS, in that it changes the way our democracy works and ultimately, dismantles democracy itself.
* * * * *
On point 1) the issue is the unprecendented federal sanction for proprietary trade secret software, enforced through nondisclosure agreements which carry with them the full punitive consequences under the law, for the life of the "trade secret", and by the way, trade secrets have no expiration date.
On point 2) above, Holt's office has provided disinformation and has indicated even to others in congress that the EAC (four White House appointees) provisions that were objected to in the first version have been corrected; they have not. The latest version of the bill explicitly empowers the EAC, which it refers to as "The Commission" 32 times and quintuples the amount of funding given The Commission, indefinitely.
And on point 3) above, these changes create an unprecedented shift in power, and effectively dismantle democracy.
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
said on 6/12/2007 @ 10:30 am PT...
"When asked about reintroducing HR 6200, his bill calling for hand counted paper ballots in the presidential race for last session, Kucinich said it would be 'very soon,'" according to the campaign's press release, which was also posted by Democracy for New Hampshire election integrity advocate Nancy Tobi at OpEdNews today.
Okay, I get why the Holt bill is bad and I'm all for 100% paper ballots. What I don't get currently is the need for hand counting. In my state, we do use the optical scanners to process paper ballots. Now, I understand that it's possible to rig the optical scanners, but I'd like to think there should be a way to address this somehow.
Hand counting every ballot sounds very slow/laborious to me and could introduce more human error into the process. Can't we use technology in some secure and transparent way to speed up the counting of paper ballots? Feed a stack of ballots through different optical machines to verify consistent results?
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
said on 6/12/2007 @ 10:47 am PT...
Optical scanning machines are not just COUNTING the ballots --- they also have (trade secret protected in Holt) software in them.
Software that can easily say... "For every 9th ballot that scanns as a Democrat, change it to the Rethuglican."
They can also have different rules for when they "kick back" a ballot, such as they did in 2000, 2004 and 2006 where rich and/or white (Rethuglican-tending) voters who make a mistake get their ballots kicked back with "there's a problem with this ballot, fix it" and poor or black or hispanic or other ethnic (Democratic-tending) voters who make a mistake get their ballots accepted without any commment (or opportunity to correct) and then "spoiled" due to the error, and never counted.
This is one of the ways the Rethuglican monsters, liars, thieves and scum stole 3,000,000 votes in 2000, 5,000,000 votes in 2004, 6,000,000 votes in 2006 and plan to steal 10,000,000 votes in 2008.
You know, no matter how much of the country believes in your values and platform, getting past a 10,000,000 deficit in a 120,000,000 race is not easy.
Paper ballots COUNTED BY HAND. It's really not as tough as it seems.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
said on 6/12/2007 @ 11:39 am PT...
...and full participation by the public in counting! I will take off a day of work to do so!
How come the Dems don't propose a holiday for election day? That always gets dropped. It more important than a day off for Christmas, that's for sure!
WHERE IS THE LEGISLATION FOR NOV. 2 BEING A NATIONAL HOLIDAY??????????????????????
SO WE CAN WATCH THE COUNTING MORE CAREFULLY?
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
Grizzly Bear Dancer
said on 6/12/2007 @ 8:01 pm PT...
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
Paul L. Johnson
said on 6/13/2007 @ 4:22 am PT...
The 3 problems with the Holt Bill, as stated in Bev Harris, are a succinct way of explaining an international problem found in election processes everywhere.
IF a paper counting process can be turned into a participatory open process on the local level which, in turn, passes on the transparent local counting to higher levels with all to see the results: then this process can be an answer.
Transparency and open participatory counting process at the local level and open certifiable data passed on for all to see the results of a secret ballot: these are the critical foundations for making sense of any 'we the people' controlling the operation of our own government.
The entire world has seen the fraudulent election games of 2000 & 2004 and democracy, US election-style stands ridiculed.
Paper ballot counting with transparent, participative involvement of citizens, is the key.