I'm live and listening on C-span tv, anyone else ? As for being back in the basement, lot of good shine started there

The basement is where Conyers belongs!

> hearings on the illegal, warrantless spying of Americans on U.S. soil by the Bush Administration's NSA

Clinton did it and it was not illegal!

Nadler is da bomb, he has warned that the next Pres. should and will prosecute all involved in wiretaps.

Did the Republicans shut off the electricity & microphones on them? Like Sensenbrenner did that one time? Does anyone remember that?

What Clinto ndid was legal at the time, and FISA was amend. afterwards. Check your facts, and btw Rush is not a good source.

I'm just disgusted by the basement again. One good thing, most dems will be insulted one more time and paybacks a bitch.

Admission to doing so 30 times, was 'most extraordinary thing I've ever ever heard'

While this statement seems to be a quote, it is important that people do not read it and take it out of context.

This statement makes it appear that Bush has actually taken the action (to illegally wiretap) 30 times. That is false.

What Bush has done 30 times, was first to sign a presidential order and then sign an extension of that order every six weeks since then. At the time Bush said he had done it "30 times," there had been approximately 30 six week periods since 9-11.

The reason this is important, is because there is literally TENS OF THOUSANDS of times they have violated people's civil rights through illegal wiretaps, not 30.

Big Dan
Yes. Sensenbrenner cut off Dems while talking, then left the room. Dems kept talking, then an aid came out a cut the mics, then the lights. All while the cameras were rolling.

One of the witnesses said something about the NSA previously being targeted in a criminal suit, "one of the only instances where an organization itself has been seen as criminal" or something like that. Anyone have any further info on this case?

quiet Quakers want action not talk. Makes me wonder how long this power of the pres. will be in the wrong hands, and how much more damage he will do.

Paul misinformed:

"Clinton did it and it was not illegal!"

I warned you about this yesterday, Paul. Disinformation will NOT be tolerated here. Either offer evidence for the above, or your comments from here on out will be deleted.

Concerning the Clinton/Carter executive orders that you are likely parrotting from Rush and friends (uncritically, and without bothering to check them out, you are 100% wrong.

See the very specific details on how you are completely wrong.

Secondly, see this, to counter your next specious argument in advance.

Unless you offer a shred of credible evidence to support your claims, you will be deleted from here on out. Your choice.

Turley says the Adm. arguements won't pass the " Red Face " standard, where you have to be able to make the arguement in court without blushing. lol

----
Unless you offer a shred of credible evidence to support your claims, you will be deleted from here on out. Your choice.
----

The same goes for the Republicans in office, next November, provided those eVoting machines are outta there!

- Tom

Paul's accusation is not only wrong, it's irrelevant to the question, "Did George W. Bush break the law?"

One may not justify illegal behavior by claiming that someone else (another president, or anyone) did the same thing. No defense lawyer would ever use such an argument, because no court would ever accept it. If the claim has no legal standing, it is likewise irrelevant to impeachment, because the Constitution requires that legal recourse against a president who breaks the law be resolved first through the impeachment process.

As Brad has pointed out more than once, Paul is wrong on the facts. Clinton never spied in violation of any law that existed when he spied. Bush did.

If Paul's goal here is simply to annoy people he doesn't like, that's one thing. But if he really wants to wage an argument and convince people, he should ask himself one question: IF WHAT BUSH DID IS DEFENSIBLE ON ANY BASIS, WHY DID HE HIMSELF REMIND AMERICANS THAT SPYING REQUIRES A WARRANT, EVEN AS HE WAS SPYING ON US WITHOUT SEEKING WARRANTS?

Back to the basement...just watched the entire hearing. Perhaps the 'basement' should be viewed metaphorically. The basement holds up the house. Perhaps there is more to the significance of this then we are comprehending at the moment. On the surface we see this as degrading...perhaps we should see this as a beginning. Back to the foundation to see how/why the house is crumbling. M4

Just finished watching the 'basement' hearings. Great start and hope the full house will pay attention. Couldn't help but worry how the 'press' will ignore or spin this. The panel made very important points that should get a broader dialog going. Thanks Brad for all that you are doing on the voting front.

I was rather surprised CPSAN and other networks aired those hearings. It doesn't bode well for the Administration. By boycotting the hearings the Republicans opened themselves and the head of their party, George W. Bush, to unprotected broadsides from a full rank of pissed off progressive Congresspersons.

It was on tv! Law school professor stating Bush has committed impeachable offense. Congressman Nadler saying current NSA and Defense employees need to be aware that the next administration will prosecute them--along with (implied) Bush and Cheney for this! So people should refrain from participating in the "program" and stop following Bush and Cheney's orders.

Various elected officials, citizens and experts went on the record criticizing Gonzales's 42-page brief released yesterday as "absurd" and "unbelievable."

Meanwhile, the Republicans have their hands full upstairs stumbling over one another to throw Abramoff dirt on somebody else.

My hope is that we'll do a "ukraine" on BushCo this spring: surround the Capitol and the White House and the Supreme Court with an ever-increasing throng of flag-waving angry citizens until BushCo closes down for good.

Totally agree with M4 . . . When a house suffers damages, i.e. cracks in the wall, misfit doors etc., the investigations of why starts with the foundation / basement! Our Government House is definitely dangerously flawed and requires microscopic examinination and correction. One thing for certain, it matters not where these hearings are housed, it matters that at least ONE representative is doing his bound duty to the people. Watched the entire hearing and the amount of information, legal evaluation and such were astoundiong. Let's not let this one cool down and disappear . .. we finally have basis for impeachment!

Just listening to a delayed broadcast of the Pacifica audio on our local community station (WJFF). Amazing stuff! As a Quaker, I'm immensely proud of what the Truth Project folks in Florida were able to do!

And yes, we need to get an impeachment rolling, ONE WAY OR ANOTHER.

I think its treason, hang em all

Paul is just wrong, on every level..

he (and the morons like him) will never accept that "finger pointing" and saying "he did it!" doesn't make it "ok".. That's how they make their living.. shitting on people and saying "they did it too!".. Screwing over people for cash.. then saying "if I didn't, someone else would".. another great cop-out by those with no morals or souls..

Saying debate "belongs in the basement" is VERY telling of just who Paul (and Ricky and Medium Right) is.. The people they support are just like them.. they don't care one whit about truth, justice, right, decency, nothing.. They only care about things that give them more [stuffpowermoneyattention] .. They are the exact antithisys of what Human Beings are capable of, they embody the shit-flinging monkies in the trees. People like Paul are barely people, and are more like the rest of the animals we're trying to evolve past..

Was that history in the making, or what?

merifour #15

What an uplifting way to look at it. Things must change soon, not only from the top down but from the bottom up as well with a new stable foundation.

Brad,

I've begun to feel that Paul will never change and bring a real debate based on verifiable facts which he presents.
We've tolerated his ditto rants for all these months and find he has yet to present any substantial argument to any topic. His only information proves to be disinformation.
I will always remember his comment in a topic regarding the lies that led us to war in Iraq: "A lie is only a lie if you believe it's a lie." Classic!

I believe it will soon be bye bye Paul.

Merifour

Look for help this weekend.

;) Please - don't forget to call those Dems and let them know you support them. It's very important that they know it now!

Comment #2

Hey Paul, yes, Clinton did it, and he did it LEGALLY. Bush co says he does it legally one year, and then says he does'nt need to it legally the next year. What part of that dont you understand? I suggest your rectally remove your head from the GOP ass.

9:45 PST, rebroadcast now on C-span

oops, Sat. morning. Hope many more take the time to watch this.

It is difficult to try to compare what Clinton and other presidents have done with what Bush has done.

The reason is that Bush lies so much and changes the reasons almost daily, so that, one day he did it as commander in chief of the military, the next day he did it in response to the congressional authorization to use force on terrorists if necessary, the next day it is due to his presidential authority to ignore the law, and the next day it is another story. And before he was caught by a leak he was saying it was illegal to spy on Americans without a court warrant.

Needless to say, Clinton sought authority to search a known foreign spy's place, not millions of American citizens in a massive witch hunt which the FBI says did not lead to worthwhile information anyway. At least not worthwhile in abating terrorism. But Clinton did get the spy.

The information Bush is data mining is more likely being used for spying on political opponents to find out what the opponents are up to.

It is typical for fascist mentalities to become paranoid about the opposition and to break the law in dealing with imagined wrongs. Nixon went down for that.

The argument "presidents before me did it" is about as valid as "slavery is ok because some prior presidents did not do away with slavery" and is senseless at best.

I saw the whole thing and have it on tape. I like the 'foundation' metaphor. I said the republicans didn't attend because it was 'beneath' them.
It seems that is what needs to be done. Take away the republicans base so they have nothing to stand on. Not that they do anyway. Lies and deceit don't make good legs. Now we need to make sure the elections in November are real and fair.

Congratulations, if you can stop American intercepts of insurgent phone calls, you will be a friend of Osama. However, there is a downside, as you are not a islamic helper, you may lose your head over this thiing. Have a great day, I am now a dedicated Republican. Beas what I have been hearing. Also, it is nice to know you are looking forward to the next attack. How about advertising for SfranSicko?

I also oneself something would want to find out on this theme. Very attentively I will read every post.