READER COMMENTS ON
"JOE WILSON: 'The President should fire Rove'!"
(73 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Catherine a
said on 7/13/2005 @ 2:58 pm PT...
Great scoop!
And people wonder why so many of us get our news on blogs!
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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Constant
said on 7/13/2005 @ 3:10 pm PT...
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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Great stuff
said on 7/13/2005 @ 3:14 pm PT...
very nice get Brad.
I'm looking forward the Today show appearance.
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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COLLEEN
said on 7/13/2005 @ 3:55 pm PT...
I am just about crying now. My son is on the fast track to Irag. Let the truth ring out.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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makesenseofit
said on 7/13/2005 @ 4:24 pm PT...
Oh, yes according to RUSH LIMBAG Wilson was against the war from the start and so were many others. Especially when the drum started beating before 9/11. And the AMerican people were bamboozled into believing everyting from WMDS to Saddam Hussein was the culprit ... when Osama Bin Laden was the man of the hour and only an hour .. when not much long afterwards he ran away and stayed away out of reach G W BUSHs binoculars...
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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rdf
said on 7/13/2005 @ 4:27 pm PT...
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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barb
said on 7/13/2005 @ 4:39 pm PT...
When will the American public WAKE UP and realize these Republicans HATE America! Yes, all of them! When the Repubs start speaking out against this evil administration, then and only then will I feel there is hope for America! I can't believe these Repubs think they will be re-elected! Oh yeah, I forgot, they steal elections!
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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Dave
said on 7/13/2005 @ 4:43 pm PT...
The republican/fauxnews/lacky ploy is always to throw mud (lots of it) and constantly dirty the water obscuring the real issues.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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dkd
said on 7/13/2005 @ 5:07 pm PT...
Based on my reading during the last couple of weeks or so, Joe Wilson certainly seems to be an accomplished and impressive fellow, and is probably justifiably upset by the treatment he's receiving from FOX "news" and the right. BUT, having said that, I find it interesting that Amb. Wilson himself evidently thought that Saddam had WMDs. From the Oct. 13, 2002 San Jose Mercury News - "If history is any guide, "regime change" as a rationale for military action will ensure that Saddam will use EVERY WEAPON [ emphasis mine] in his arsenal to defend himself." And from the L.A. Times, Feb. 6, 2003 - "There is now no incentive for Hussein to comply with the inspectors or to refrain from using weapons of mass destruction to defend himself..." And, "...he will use them; we should be under no illusion about that". I am aware of two terrorist experts, Yosef Bodansky and Michael Scheuer, both of whom are strongly critical of Pres. Bush's war in Irag, yet both have said there WERE WMDs. Bodansky said they were sent to Syria and Scheuer wrote in his book "Imperial Hubris" that the WMDs and ties to al-qaida (sp?) were connected to the Northern Kurds. IMHO, Amb. Wilson's beliefs/suspicions will serve to give him MORE credibility in efforts to get to the bottom of Plamegate. He's doesn't come across as a knee-jerk Bush-basher. BTW, welcome back Brad. ur store still open?
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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chris galkin
said on 7/13/2005 @ 5:44 pm PT...
Where is Howard Dean. We need him screaming into a microphone about this..
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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EZ
said on 7/13/2005 @ 5:56 pm PT...
Before firing Rove, we have to make sure if Bolton or Cheney are the ones who exposed it to Rove. Gossip spreads like a fire. Rove was in fact doing the dirty job for the Admin. to spin Wilson's role on WMD's since Bush and neo cons were desperate to go to war without a plan.
I hope you guys win this battle or you may be kept busy by Al Qaeda attacks in U.S.A. just to divert from solving real issues.
It is a sad day in america, we have allowed a foreign or domestic enemy to create this partisan. Are we true americans or we are loyal only to one's party?
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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jimmo
said on 7/13/2005 @ 5:58 pm PT...
{Comment deleted for repeated, flagrant and extended inability to show common courtesy or follow the general rules of posting here.}
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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jimmo
said on 7/13/2005 @ 6:04 pm PT...
{Comment deleted for repeated, flagrant and extended inability to show common courtesy or follow the general rules of posting here.}
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 7/13/2005 @ 6:11 pm PT...
It's been established that Cheney's office authorized the trip. But who cares, really? The issue isn't the trip, it's Valerie Plame's identity as a C.I.A. operative.
Rove outed her. His lawyer has admitted it, and tried to draw a silly distinction between "Valerie Plame" and "Wilson's wife." How many wives did Wilson have? If I said "Bill Clinton's wife works for the C.I.A.," would anyone have trouble identifying Hillary Clinton?
Everything else is crap. Rove's a dead turkey, because for a change the mainstream media is on the case.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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Brad
said on 7/13/2005 @ 6:12 pm PT...
Thanks, DKD. Yup the BRAD STORE will remain open for business!
And yes, Wilson had grave concerns about the WMD, as he expressed. Those were what he was concerned about, not regime change (as mentioned in my article).
Of course, I'm fairly sure my neighbor may have an assault rifle as well. Doesn't mean I'm gonna go burn down his house to deal with it, however.
The ability to discern the proper action for various situations would seem to be important for a President of the United States.
One would think, however, the bar for certainty in such matters would be quite a bit higher if the action is to be war.
Though if you actually want to go to war no matter what, that is, of course, a different (and impeachable) thing all together.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Patriot
said on 7/13/2005 @ 6:27 pm PT...
Rove,Novak,Chaney,Bush,Rice,ECT,ECT all need to be shown the door.Hopefully a PRISON door.Joe Wilson and his lovely wife should have never been the targets of this lawless bunch of thugs.They are true hero's and victlm's in this whole sorid mess.I pray for justice to be done.My humble thanks to Joe and Valerie Wilson.Keep the faith.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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Patriot
said on 7/13/2005 @ 6:29 pm PT...
Rove,Novak,Chaney,Bush,Rice,ECT,ECT all need to be shown the door.Hopefully a PRISON door.Joe Wilson and his lovely wife should have never been the targets of this lawless bunch of thugs.They are true hero's and victlm's in this whole sorid mess.I pray for justice to be done.My humble thanks to Joe and Valerie Wilson.Keep the faith.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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via
said on 7/13/2005 @ 6:39 pm PT...
Sounding more and more as if our little Johnny Bolton is being rewarded for leaking to Rove by being given the UN appointment. We know George rewards those who carry out his orders. I cannot imagine that Karl Rove acted without the knowlege and consent of both the President and Vice President. And if George decides to cut him loose, he may bring down the whole house of cards with him. Godspeed!
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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Joy
said on 7/13/2005 @ 6:49 pm PT...
The BRAD BLOG has learned from several sources, as also confirmed in Time magazine that Plame was indeed a "NOC", a nonofficial covert agent, the most valuable and secretive of CIA assets.
Right!!! I wonder how many "NOC" agents appear of the cover of magazines???
Plame HAS not been a "NOC" agent for a long time..not since the Russian Spy outed her in 1994.
Why do you believe a proven liar? Wilson lied to the 9-11 Commission numerous times. But I guess when your desperate, you'll grasp any straw...no matter how flimsy.
This thing is going to backfire on Wilson and the media...BIG TIME. Just another Dan Rather moment. This is so much fun to watch.
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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Robin Quon
said on 7/13/2005 @ 6:53 pm PT...
Hey Brad-It's the San Jose Mercury News- not the San Jose Weekly News (where you got that, I don't know)
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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Brad
said on 7/13/2005 @ 8:04 pm PT...
I don't know either, Robin Q. Will fix. Thanks.
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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Juan
said on 7/13/2005 @ 8:20 pm PT...
Honorable Mr. Wilson:
In addition to the letter that 41 wrote after your article and Brent Scowcraft's comments, could you PLEASE SHOW the Letter of Commendation that 41 gave you for your work in protecting the 125 Americans when they sough refuge in the US Embassy while you were the Ambassador to Iraq WHEN 41 WAS PRESIDENT.
I look forward to your interview on the Today show.
Thank you for YOUR TRUE PATRIOTISM!!!!!!!!!
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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Sunny
said on 7/13/2005 @ 8:24 pm PT...
ummm hey Joy ... Mrs. Wilson wasn't on the mag cover until AFTER she was outed.
It's also interesting to note that you have some "inside" information about when she NOC ... you should stop repeating misinformation from GOP talking points until you know the facts.
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Avenging Angel
said on 7/13/2005 @ 8:31 pm PT...
Wilson's original NYT piece ("What I Didn't Find in Africa"), along with a host of other key materials, is available in the Karl Rove Scandal Library.
COMMENT #25 [Permalink]
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Mike
said on 7/13/2005 @ 8:34 pm PT...
Proving once again that he is no more than a partisan hack, Charles Johnson of Little Green Footballs repeats all the Repub. talking points. Along with his racist, hateful blog, Johnson never stops pimping Bush.
COMMENT #26 [Permalink]
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Avenging Angel
said on 7/13/2005 @ 8:34 pm PT...
Wilson's original NYT piece ("What I Didn't Find in Africa"), along with a host of other key materials, is available in the Karl Rove Scandal Library.
COMMENT #27 [Permalink]
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Slicer
said on 7/13/2005 @ 8:37 pm PT...
Great job Brad. I have been watching and reading the news on the Rove affair and nowhere have I heard or read what you report from Joe Wilson.
COMMENT #28 [Permalink]
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Kuas
said on 7/13/2005 @ 8:55 pm PT...
It never ceases to amaze me what a bunch of hacks these people are, as well as their fellow travellers like Mickey Kaus and Hitchens. Pure unadulterated hackery.
COMMENT #29 [Permalink]
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ed
said on 7/13/2005 @ 9:18 pm PT...
two points to make.
1. whether or not Plame was undercover or not at the time of the "outing" is irrelevant. The law which was broken makes no distinction. In fact it states that it is a crime to out even retired former NOCS. The reason for this is simple. There are more people involved than just the NOC....there are also the NOC's associates and/or fake companies. In this case, probably MORE DAMAGE was done to the undercover firm that Plame worked for (and subsquently all the NOCs associated with said company) once Plame was outed. This is not even being brought up in the slightest.
2. The right is making such a big deal of Plame being a public figure...making some sort of weird rationalization that public figures can't be NOCS....but wouldn't they make the best ones?
I guess this is derived from the cloak and dagger hollywood ideas of what consitutes an undercover agent.
COMMENT #30 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 7/13/2005 @ 10:00 pm PT...
Robert Parry makes a good point about the Rove-Plame affair here
A key national security principle for dealing with top-secret information, such as the identity of undercover CIA officers, is strict compartmentalization, often called “the need to know” – which raises the question why George W. Bush’s chief political adviser Karl Rove would know anything about the identity of CIA officer Valerie Plame.
The answer to that mystery – why was Rove involved – may be more crucial to unraveling who was behind the illegal leaking of Plame’s name and the subsequent cover-up than even the identity of which Bush officials passed the information to right-wing pundit Robert Novak for his infamous column on July 14, 2003.
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To professional U.S. intelligence officers, the notion of sharing such a precise secret – the identity of an undercover CIA officer – with a spinmeister like Rove is anathema.
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The key incriminating fact in this mystery is that Rove had no reason to know who Plame was, except as part of a public relations attack against her husband.
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For two years now, what has been lacking from the White House is a coherent explanation of how the information about Plame’s identity got from the cloistered world of the CIA to White House meetings and then into the hands of political adviser Rove.
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In a healthy democracy, the news media would have demanded answers before Election 2004...
Trust Bob Parry to lay it all out in clear simple terms. He's so good at that! No wonder the White House hates him!
Please read his entire column!
COMMENT #31 [Permalink]
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supersoling
said on 7/13/2005 @ 10:25 pm PT...
Ummm....Brad......
You have truly arrived at liberal blogger status when the real freepers start reading here to find out what the left is up to. Check out thesmoking freeper brains.
Man Brad, you are on a tear lately. Keep after 'em (i know you will)
COMMENT #32 [Permalink]
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Wilson For President
said on 7/14/2005 @ 2:31 am PT...
If Wilson ran for President, he would have my vote. And so would his First Lady.
COMMENT #33 [Permalink]
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unirealist
said on 7/14/2005 @ 4:16 am PT...
Winter Patriot, #30--- Thanks for the link to the Robert Parry article. It is beginning to look like there is more to the Republican counteroffensive than just saving Karl Rove's job. Parry's right--the question is not even just "who told ROVE?", but also "who initiated the chain of events?" Perhaps this question leads back to Bolton's inquiries, the ones the WH is loathe to divulge. And if that's the case, who told Bolton to make those inquiries? Was it Bush/Cheney? I can see the whole gang sitting in the Oval Office, kicking around ideas on how to discredit Wilson. "Somebody" tasks Bolton with investigating Wilson (and maybe other war critics at the same time), and Bolton comes up with the fact that Wilson's CIA wife promoted him for the Africa trip. Bolton brings this info to Rove, who personally plants the info with select journalists.
Okay, so now Rove is in a spot of trouble. But it is nothing compared to the criminal conspiracy that led to the investigation that preceded the leak. Betcha Bush himself was there. Betcha they all were.
Sound plausible to you?
COMMENT #34 [Permalink]
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The Oracle
said on 7/14/2005 @ 4:37 am PT...
Just wondering.
Wasn't it last year that some leaker in the Bush administration revealed that British intelligence was using a Pakistani double agent, who was an Al Qaeda computer expert in Pakistan, to track possible Al Qaeda sleeper cells around the world?
And when this Pakistani double agent's identity was prematurely disclosed by some Bush loudmouth, British intelligence lost a very valuable intelligence resource which could have proved significant in interdicting any planned terrorist attacks, like the one last week in London?
Therefore, in matters of intelligence leaks, I believe the Bush administration has twice pulled stunts that have increased the chances that any planned Al Qaeda attacks will succeed. Or at least the two times that we are aware of...the Valerie Plame outing as a covert CIA agent and the outing of the Pakistani double agent as a secret British intelligence asset.
Just think if British intelligence had had several more months or even a year to mine that asset. Maybe that asset, through his e-mail messages to possible undercover Al Qaeda operatives, would have helped uncover the four Yorkshire Pakistanis before they got a chance to attack.
I think President Bush owes British citizens an apology.
And, to my knowledge, which is very limited I admit, I don't think anyone has ever been named as the person responsible for the security breach over the Pakistani double agent. However, I believe it is long past time that we all found out.
COMMENT #35 [Permalink]
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Jon Parker
said on 7/14/2005 @ 5:25 am PT...
The thing to remember now is that it doesn't matter if Joe Wilson is a liar (and I'm not saying he is). That may have been a point when this scandal broke during the election, but it's completely irrelevant now.
Attacking Joe is last year's battle. The whole focus now is on Fitzgerald and whether or not Rove, Libby, and other WH officials are going to be charged with criminal offenses. Note that the charges may not be for blowing her cover --- they may be for perjury or obstruction of justice. Nevertheless, it's definitely a criminal investigation.
The secondary focus is why, if W is so anxious to get to the bottom of this, we need an investigation in the first place. We know someone in the WH leaked the info. At this point W is either covering for them, or doesn't have control of his people. Either one looks bad.
The key thing is not to get into discussions about Joe Wilson at all. Don't let Mehlman and the right wing noise machine make the argument about Wilson --- it's about Rove, period.
COMMENT #36 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 7/14/2005 @ 5:33 am PT...
Exactly right. If Wilson were a scheming, lying traitor (he isn't), that still would have zero to do with the crime of outing a C.I.A. operative. Whether she was his wife or not is irrelevant. Whether she had anything to do with his being sent to Niger is irrelevant.
It's a crime to reveal the identity of a C.I.A. agent operating undercover. Everything else is partisan noise. And for the first time since Inauguration Day, 2001, Karl Rove isn't controlling the noise. Hallelujah.
COMMENT #37 [Permalink]
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ekim
said on 7/14/2005 @ 5:40 am PT...
I continue to wonder what it will take to "bring down" the Busheviks. They seem to skate through every crisis without any major damage.
The MSM continues to be complicit in furthering the NeoCons agenda. Until that changes, I think our country will continue to be held hostage.I still have hope that the MSM will wake up and do their job. And that as a result, the whole bunch of them will be frog marched to jail. But based on what has occured so far, I am skeptical that this will happen.
COMMENT #38 [Permalink]
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Free Masons! (With Purchase of Illuminati)
said on 7/14/2005 @ 5:49 am PT...
If Wilson's a liar - as every right-brain-lobotomized talking point parrot seems to keep squawking - then why would Judith Miller be taking the fall for *anything*? The truth shall set you free, after all...
COMMENT #39 [Permalink]
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dkd
said on 7/14/2005 @ 6:20 am PT...
hey Winter- you might find novak's column of Oct. 1, 2003 interesting. It's a defense of his July column in which he outs Plame. One of his defenses is that "it was not much of a secret" that she worked for the CIA. And "It was well known around Washington that Wilson's wife worked for the CIA." If indeed that was so, then it shouldn't be a surprise that White House staff would be aware of that fact. Don't get me wrong; I'm not defending what Novak and the leakers did. Some heads need to be rolling.
And for Joy at #19 (or for anyone who knows), not that it's relevant, but what lies did Amb. Wilson tell the 9-11 commission?
COMMENT #40 [Permalink]
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Sarah from Texas
said on 7/14/2005 @ 6:21 am PT...
:) Thank God the truth is FINALLY coming out in th MSM. I have felt as if I've been trapped in a horrible nightmare twilight zone for years now with the chimp in the WH. Maybe this is the straw that will break the camels back and rid us of this evil treasonist corrupt regime. We need our country back!
Thank you Joe Wilson for being a true American and a real man(not a lying wuss like the anti-American chimp). and thank you Brad for all your hard work too!
COMMENT #41 [Permalink]
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Denis Robert
said on 7/14/2005 @ 6:33 am PT...
In response to comment #9:
Joe Wilson stated that the idea that Saddam had sought to buy yellowcake in Niger was unfounded. He made no comment as to the general WMD situation.
Understand this: Until the war, most people believed that it was highly possible that Saddam MIGHT have SOME chemical and/or biological weapons, simply because he had them in the past (the US sold him the materials to make them...). The opponents to the war did not claim that there were no WMD, only that the inspection process should be allowed to be completed, so that we could base our going to war on actual EVIDENCE, not on hearsay based on dubious "intelligence" sources. If the inspectors had found banned weapons, you can be sure that most people would have fallen behind Bush.
BUT NO SUCH WEAPONS WERE EVER FOUND; Nor was any significant evidence of any banned weapon system. All the evidence that came out from the inspection process pointed to the fact that Saddam was clean. Now, mind you, the world was justifiably sceptical about Saddam's own claims not to possess WMDs, but that only meant that we had to REDOUBLE OUR EFFORTS TO PROVE HIS CLAIMS FALSE.
Considering that most of the so-called intelligence Bush used to justify the war came from the INC( i.e. Challabi and his cronies), which had a checkered history at best, it was the US' responsibility to ensure that the rumors were more than just that. The Bush administration, with its usual "I don't need to explain myself" attitude, failed to do so.
So don't blame Wilson for telling the truth.
COMMENT #42 [Permalink]
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Lev Raphael
said on 7/14/2005 @ 6:45 am PT...
Here's a sign of the cynicism and corrupt thinking of the attack on Wilson: the claim that Rove did something meritorious and deserves a medal for doing what he said he didn't do.
Hello? If he outed nepotism and who knows what else, then why is he saying he didn't do it? In other words, why isn't he taking his victory lap?
Alice in Wonderland, 1984, Catch 22--none of these capture the weirdness of the thugs who rule our media in cahoots with the Busheviks. Their claims don't make sense, but they shout and re-shout them, hoping something will work to confuse the real issues.
COMMENT #43 [Permalink]
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Chris Chappell
said on 7/14/2005 @ 7:21 am PT...
Here are THE facts for you factless liberal idiots.
Drafter of intel statute:
Rove accusers ignorant
Lawyer who wrote law to protect agents says Plame charge doesn't meet standard
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Posted: July 14, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern
By Art Moore
© 2005 WorldNetDaily.com
Valerie Plame appeared in Vanity Fair magazine with her husband Joseph Wilson in January 2004
Democrat leaders and editorialists accusing Karl Rove of treason for referring to CIA agent Valerie Plame in an off-the-record interview are ignorant of the law, according to the Washington attorney who spearheaded the legislation at the center of the controversy.
Plame's circumstances don't meet several of the criteria spelled out in a 1982 statute designed not only to protect the identity of intelligence agents but to maintain the media's ability to hold government accountable, Victoria Toensing told WorldNetDaily.
Toensing – who drafted the legislation in her role as chief counsel for the chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence – says the Beltway frenzy surrounding Plame's alleged "outing" as a covert agent is a story arising out of the capital's "silly season."
"The hurricane season started early and so did the August silly stories," Toensing said. "What is it that qualifies as a story here?"
Democrat leaders are accusing Rove of exposing Plame's identity as an act of retribution against her husband Joe Wilson, who returned from a CIA assignment to Niger with a report disputing the administration's suspicion that Iraq wanted to acquire uranium from the African nation.
Toensing, now a private attorney in Washington, says Plame most likely was not a covert agent when Rove referred to her in a 2003 interview with Time magazine's Matt Cooper.
The federal code says the agent must have operated outside the United States within the previous five years. But Plame gave up her role as a covert agent nine years before the Rove interview, according to New York Times columnist Nicholas Kristof.
Kristof said the CIA brought Plame back to Washington in 1994 because the agency suspected her undercover security had been compromised by turncoat spy Aldrich Ames.
Moreover, asserts Toensing, for the law to be violated, Rove would have had to intentionally reveal Plame's identity with the knowledge that he was disclosing a covert agent.
Toensing believes Rove's waiver allowing reporters testifying before the grand jury to reveal him as a source – signed more than 18 months ago – shows the Bush strategist did not believe he was violating the law.
Rove, according to Cooper's notes, apparently was trying to warn the reporter not to give credence to Wilson's investigation, because, he had no expertise in nuclear weapons and was sent to Africa because of the recommendation of his wife. Wilson had claimed he was sent by Vice President Cheney.
Another element necessary for applying the law is that the government had to be taking affirmative measures to conceal the agent's identity.
Toensing says that on the contrary, the CIA gave Plame a desk job in which she publicly went to and from work, allowed her spouse to do a mission in Africa without signing a confidentiality agreement and didn't object to his writing an op-ed piece in the New York Times about his trip.
Columnist Robert Novak, who first published Plame's name, also apparently didn't think it was a big deal, Toensing said, or he would have put it in the first paragraph.
Novak's aim was to expose the incompetence of the CIA, she argued.
"These are the kinds of stories we wanted to still be put out there when we passed the law," she said. "We only wanted to stop the methodical exposing of CIA personnel for the purpose of assassination."
COMMENT #44 [Permalink]
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Constant
said on 7/14/2005 @ 7:25 am PT...
Subj: WH continued smearing of Wilson --- Evidence of wider WH efforts to silence NOCs stateside from speaking out about war crimes
I had some thoughts on the Non Official Cover status [NOCs]. It appears as though the White House operative-outings were designed to dissuade the NOC's stationed stateside from speaking out about the ruses leading up to the Iraq invasion.
I go into some further discussion and hope you find this a catalyst for broadening the scope of the Grand Jury investigation into Rove and looking at the wider efforts by the White House to silence American citizens about a war of aggression. [ More . . . ]
I look forward to reading your responses.
COMMENT #45 [Permalink]
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Mr.Murder
said on 7/14/2005 @ 8:07 am PT...
Ambassador Wilson(ret.) was correct.
One could google up information to see the WMD lies were simply hype. Twenty minutes of searching could bring up the results of the German and French subcontractors from Niger.
Wilson went in person to do this, everything he did was up front. Tea time as a means of diplomatic protocol. He hid nothing, such an unalarming appearance would most likely develop the maximum amount of cooperation and allow him to guage any attempted coverup in this manner.
Instead he found people addressed him in the same professional manner with the information that debunked the Bush myth of nuclear intent. From this Wilson looks at the document cited, and notes on its face value it is a forgery. Old stationary, the kind from a time when Briatin had an embassy there, a possible leftover scrap of the first desert storm attempts at docudumps to justify increased penetration of the mideast.
Certainly such attempts never got past the lowest desk levels during Clinton's terms. Bush revived these ghost traces of theory.
Of course it was not Bush personally, it was Dick Cheney. The two men rarely worked together outside of the occasional speech/camera appearance as security protocls were spiked in the various terror assessments.
Were such not the case it is further indictment of the Bush mantra of alerts and their poltical consequence. Of course Mr.Wilson can shed further light on this in regards to State functions and appropriation votes.
Anyways this should go back to Cheney. His daughter Liz Cheney had oversight of Near East affairs within the intelligence community. In May third of 2003, the Intelligence Community overhaul occurred. It included the creation of the Near East affairs post and the reorganization of all field capacites in the NNSA and the appropriations and assessments for personnel here and in the field.
This included the crucial areas of procurment and WMD in several of the capacities vertically integrated within the DoE in its capacities within the NNSA.(Nat.Nuke Safety Admin.)
Former Senator(ret.) Bob Graham has unquestioned credentials in security concerns. He notes CHneey's complicit role in the war run-up.
"Who was it that asked for this review of the Niger nuclear material question? It was the Vice President."
Senator Bob Graham
Likewise former President Bill Clinton has drawn the distinction between the compliant George W.Bush and the complicit Dick Cheney. Cheney took the task of argument with CIA screening over the authenticity of the documents, and assumed a former Republican in Wilson would indeed handle this task in partisan nature given his former service in Iraq for our country at the embassy.
The outing of Ms.Plame led to several people sharing profles one would assume were part of this cover meeting untimely deaths abroad or here after they resigned.
A Mr.Johnson was beheaded in Saud Arabia, I beleive he worked in a capacity for Lockheed. Most likely his contacts were killed and accredited as an action in helping us fight terror.
Could Saud have waved this info in Bush's face on his kiss-ring visit?
Another former Shell director in South America and his wife were beat to death in America after his early retirement. OPEC's focus post peak is on the aquaisition of new land to tap wells in. Most notably thier focus in South America, and specifically Venezuela.
COlin Powell was in South America meeting OPEC proxy puppets and the deposed former Afghan King(petrolewum world.com).
Coincidence?
Anyways this is a long winding road of a post, they all meet the same spot. Post peak energy profiles, intelligence community overhauls, and the office of Vice President Dick Cheney.
If the honrable former ambassador Wilson could answer a question, this is what should be asked(on background or otherwise):
Is Dick Cheney in any way whatsoever related to Michael Sheldon Cheney the original PR man for ARAMCO?
Thanks again for the post Brad, cut the lies with a sharp knife of concise truth as always. Thanks again to Joe Wilson as well.
COMMENT #46 [Permalink]
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Constant
said on 7/14/2005 @ 8:22 am PT...
Wilson made me think. And I offer you a potential solution. It should be the stated policy of the American public to actively encourage RNC elected officials to defect and lay the foundation for an impeachment. [More . . .]
If the leadership won't lead, we will lead the leadership. They've failed.
It's our turn.
COMMENT #47 [Permalink]
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dkd
said on 7/14/2005 @ 8:23 am PT...
re #41 - well said Denis. I did not mean to come across as questioning Joe Wilson's honesty. Just trying to point out that even tho he thought Saddam had WMDs (and maybe they are in Syria as per Bodansky) - as did Pres. Bush - he was still opposed to the war, which imo makes him difficult for Bush supporters to dismiss.
would still like to know what lies joy was referring to in #19
COMMENT #48 [Permalink]
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Constant
said on 7/14/2005 @ 8:36 am PT...
#43 Yawn.
What's worse than being "ingorant of the law"? It's being ignorant of reality.
What force does an editorial have against a US prosecutor like Fitzgerald? Selfevidently none:
* There remains evidence which the editorial-writer hasn't seen
* Judith Miller is in Jail, thanks to the court's blessing
* The grand jury continues gathering evidence of additional crimes
* The White House remains under seige
* Fitzgerald continues to gather evidence for indictments.
On one hand we have the Constitution and Joe Wilson standing proud with Conyers and those who assert the rule of law.
On the other hand, we have people who support tyranny.
Pick. The train has left the station. Start running.
COMMENT #49 [Permalink]
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Constant
said on 7/14/2005 @ 8:42 am PT...
#43 Yawn.
What's worse than being "ingorant of the law"? It's being ignorant of reality.
What force does an editorial have against a US prosecutor like Fitzgerald? Selfevidently none:
* There remains evidence which the editorial-writer hasn't seen
* Judith Miller is in Jail, thanks to the court's blessing
* The grand jury continues reviewing evidence of additional crimes
* The White House remains under seige
* Fitzgerald continues to gather evidence for indictments
On one hand we have the Constitution and Joe Wilson standing proudly with Conyers and those who assert the rule of law.
On the other hand, we have people who support tyranny.
Pick. The train has left the station. Start running.
COMMENT #50 [Permalink]
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Constant
said on 7/14/2005 @ 8:53 am PT...
Brad: Ooops. I got a "timed out" message. Said it didn't go through. Please delete This message and #49. Sorry. Please forgive me.
COMMENT #51 [Permalink]
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Constant
said on 7/14/2005 @ 11:05 am PT...
Today --- Media Advisory: 3PM EST, Thursday, July 14 2005
Amb Wilson and Sentor Schumer to jointly ask for Rove's Security Clearance to be revoked. [Drudge . . . ]
According to info from:
Israel S. Klein
Communications Director
U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer
COMMENT #52 [Permalink]
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Mr.Murder
said on 7/14/2005 @ 11:31 am PT...
Well two facts of most importance are:
1- "She's fair game."
2- Valerie Plame. Her maiden name? Non Official Name?
If it's her family name it's clear they want to take away the veil of protection even for her parents.
Such should really lend credence to the notion of intent to cause harm to her.
That constitutes a death penalty in any extent regarding the case. Especially when Rove/Miller/Chalabi context is added to the picture.
COMMENT #53 [Permalink]
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Mr.Murder
said on 7/14/2005 @ 11:35 am PT...
Two things of importance_
1- "She's fair game."
2- Ms.Plame. Her maiden name? It would basically mean Rove is even intent on exposing her parents and siblings to collateral risk. If it is her non official name it is still of high consequence, but the previous instance would consitute intent.
This takes on maximum sentence in light of Chalabi/Miller/Rove and the compromised encryption.
COMMENT #54 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 7/14/2005 @ 12:38 pm PT...
For DKD: Whether Joseph Wilson was right or wrong about WMD at any given moment, and whether he changed his mind at some point about the threat of WMD, are utterly irrelevant questions...except to the extent that they might help us judge him personally as a diplomat.
But if he were the dumbest, crookedest, slimiest weasel since Gordon Liddy, it wouldn't matter a fig or a farthing in this case. Get off it, please. Karl Rove revealed the identity of a C.I.A. operative who was then working undercover to a reporter. That is all that matters.
COMMENT #55 [Permalink]
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dkd
said on 7/14/2005 @ 1:00 pm PT...
rlm #54 - I'm afraid I don't understand. Get off what?
COMMENT #56 [Permalink]
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lag
said on 7/14/2005 @ 1:28 pm PT...
I still need to know if there is an official transcript of Rove saying plame was "fair game". No one has been able to back this up officially.
What Rove did is still politically WRONG, but the "fair game" part would tie up the motive part for the legal aspect nicely...but so far it's just hearsay.
Please, provide official evidence of this...or at least the original source of this info...if Wilson, as much as I want to believe him, I need something else a little more solid.
COMMENT #57 [Permalink]
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Alison
said on 7/14/2005 @ 2:45 pm PT...
...In early October 2003, NEWSWEEK reported that immediately after Novak's column appeared in July, Rove called MSNBC "Hardball" host Chris Matthews and told him that Wilson's wife was "fair game."
from July 11 Newsweek article titled "The Rove Factor"
COMMENT #58 [Permalink]
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Brad
said on 7/14/2005 @ 2:50 pm PT...
LAG - The "fair game" comment came from Chris Matthews (as it's been reported). That's apparently what Rove told Matthews in a phone call.
Matthews then reported it to ...someone, who the reported it publicly.
I don't have the original cite, but the above should be enough to help you Google it out.
COMMENT #59 [Permalink]
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Alison
said on 7/14/2005 @ 2:51 pm PT...
COMMENT #60 [Permalink]
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Robert Lockwood Mills
said on 7/14/2005 @ 4:22 pm PT...
For DKD: By "Get off it, please..." I meant, "Please stop trying to politicize the issue." This isn't about Joseph Wilson, or about Republicans and Democrats. it's about Valerie Plame and Karl Rove.
To argue about what Joseph Wilson knew and when he knew it, or even whether he had ulterior motives, is foolish. It's inside-the-Beltway gossip that has nothing to do with criminal conduct. These matters are not relevant to the question, "Did Karl Rove reveal the identity of a C.I.A. agent?"
A recent troll asked, "Why would you believe Joseph Wilson?" My answer? "Who cares about Joseph Wilson, or whether people believe him or not? I believe Rove's lawyer, and he just admitted that Rove revealed Valerie Plame's identity to Matthew Cooper." Forget everything else!
COMMENT #61 [Permalink]
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makesenseofit
said on 7/14/2005 @ 4:35 pm PT...
Make sure the right person is fired ... but I am not certain they all should be fired for conspiring the efforts to make the Americans believe the IRaq war was needed to destroy WMD's....
COMMENT #62 [Permalink]
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lag
said on 7/14/2005 @ 5:02 pm PT...
Thanks everyone for the lowdown.
COMMENT #63 [Permalink]
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dkd
said on 7/14/2005 @ 6:28 pm PT...
re Robert #60 - I'll have to disagree with you regarding what "this" is about. "This" series of comments IS about Joe Wilson and what he thinks. Go back to the top and look at Brad's article. Of course, you're correct that what Amb. Wilson thinks has no bearing on the possible criminal conduct of WH staff. But the right HAS politicized the affair, and IMO the more the public knows about Joe Wilson the more twistin' and turnin' Rush and his gang are gonna have to do. And although what Mr. Wilson thinks doesn't affect whatever did or didn't get leaked, I think we should consider the importance public opinion may play in any prosecution of any criminal conduct.
COMMENT #64 [Permalink]
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George Silva
said on 7/14/2005 @ 8:13 pm PT...
Please people:
Fitzgerald is a successful prosecuter.
There is no chance whatsoever that Fitzgerald is wasting his time prosecuting the 1982 law against exposing undercover CIA operatives.
Fitzgerald knows that it is a massive waste of time to try to prosecute anyone under the 1982 law, which guarantees that anyone willing to commit perjury by claiming what Rove is claiming ("I did not KNOWINGLY expose a deep-cover CIA operative)
Under the law, Rove can merely lie, and the 1982 law demands that he walks.
But what every single liberal on planet earth is missing except >ME
Unless and until USA patriots stop echoing the treasonous rebublican talking points memos, and keeping the republican claim that only the 1982 law applies in this case, the prosecuter might drop espionage charges.
Rove destroyed a deep cover operation vital to USA national security, and risked the lives of countless people who were doing something that Rove refused to do- risk your life to protect the USA.
No mention of bush or Rove must ever be made without including "treason".
George
COMMENT #65 [Permalink]
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M.H. Ellet
said on 7/14/2005 @ 8:59 pm PT...
Of course, he could be only telling it as HE saw it, but Ambassador Wilson's book tells a very convincing story. Sorry, I can't remember the name of the book....
COMMENT #66 [Permalink]
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Dale Franks
said on 7/14/2005 @ 10:14 pm PT...
"In the meantime, despite such pesky facts, the wingnuts also continue to claim that Plame was, in fact, not even a covert asset at the time of her outing."
As of tonight, 7-14-05, apparently Joseph Wilson joined the ranks of the wingnuts, by telling Wolf Blitzer on CNN that his wife wasn't a covert operative when she was outed by Bob Novak.
COMMENT #67 [Permalink]
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MMIIXX
said on 7/15/2005 @ 5:39 am PT...
George Silva #64
do you have a link to the "espionage act of 1917".
COMMENT #68 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/16/2005 @ 1:27 pm PT...
You left kook fringe believe whatever you want, conspiracy theories and all. Sorry guys! I know it must be hard to be you.
http://apnews.myway.com/.../20050716/D8BC7F500.html
Rove is not convering up anything, has not pleaded th 5th, has not used exec privileges. ======================
Republicans cheered the latest revelations Friday, saying they showed Rove wasn't trying to hurt Plame but instead was trying to informally warn reporters to be cautious about some of Wilson's claims.
"What it says is, Karl Rove wasn't the leaker, he was actually the recipient of the information not the provider," Republican National Committee chairman Ken Mehlman said on Fox News. "So there are probably a lot of folks in Washington who have prejudged this, who have rushed to judgment who are trying to smear Karl Rove."
Democrats, however, said that even if Rove wasn't the leaker, someone still divulged Plame's identity and possibly violated the law.
COMMENT #69 [Permalink]
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Paul
said on 7/16/2005 @ 1:38 pm PT...
> When will the American public WAKE UP and realize these Republicans HATE America! Yes, all of them! When the Repubs start speaking out against this evil administration, then and only then will I feel there is hope for America! I can't believe these Repubs think they will be re-elected! Oh yeah, I forgot, they steal elections!
Barb, you left kook fringe are the ones who hate America and you are showing it everyday. And we thank you!
COMMENT #70 [Permalink]
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Winter Patriot
said on 7/16/2005 @ 3:01 pm PT...
Latest revelations? Get off it, Paul --- you mean the latest set of RNC lies!!
Why would anyone ever believe anything serial liar Ken Mehlman told the propaganda meisters at Fox News??
Oh I get it ... if you're not smart enough to smell the bullshit you might believe it!
And no, we don't hate America, Paul. We only hate what the assholes you support so mindlessly are doing to it.
COMMENT #71 [Permalink]
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Patriot
said on 7/16/2005 @ 4:04 pm PT...
The Democrate's need to start calling this mess with Rove what it is TRAITORGATE.Rove should have taught them that WORDS MATTER.If the show were on the other foot the headlines the next day would have been TRAITORGATE.Get a clue people.When people do treasonous acts lets call them traitors.
COMMENT #72 [Permalink]
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dkd
said on 7/17/2005 @ 6:19 pm PT...
to Dale Franks #66 - you may find an article at www.mediamatters.org interesting. Evidently, AP misinterpreted Amb. Wilson's comment to Wolfe Blitzer and later corrected the first release.
COMMENT #73 [Permalink]
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bill halpin
said on 7/15/2006 @ 10:18 am PT...
I was proud to be able to help the Wilson Support----------HOWEVER, I also wanted to send in a comment congratulating them.
Unfortunately after I wrote my comments I was required to put in more info than I know about computers so my mail was rejected.
I think this will be a turn off for many of their supporters.
It was easy to make a donation it should be equally easy to make a comment, I think.