You guy seem to be in for the "LONG HAUL"
On Sunday, Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said criticism of the handling of the war isn't justified because "The administration, I think, has said to the American people that it is a generational commitment to Iraq."

KEYWORD=GENERATIONAL.

25-30 years? what the .......
Imagine a world OWNED by HALIBURTON

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8158450/#050620a

Whatever happens, whatever anyone else says on this thread - DON'T FEED THE FRICKIN' TROLLS.

Just ignore them and they'll go away, I don't give a flying fuck about some tossers view on taxes and it really pisses me off to see it take up a third of a thread and :

A: not reach any meaningful conclusion and
B: those who assist the troll in hijacking the thread congratulating themselves about it.

So what about the 'secret' vote verification committee meeting, did anyone hear about that before it happened? It was certainly news to me.

Night all.

"I just don't see any ideas here." God, that troll from last week pissed me off. Like we need any more ideas like Bush and Cheney's. I'd sure like to actually have the USA still be around 20 years from now.

In the meantime, I can't help but feel a bit of letdown after last week's flurry of activity. The DSM finally got a smattering of mainstream attention. Will it amount to anything? It appears not as of today. The MSM has forgotten all about it. Is there not one courageous newspaper out there willing to keep pushing on this? Or have the neocons inflitrated every single MSM paper and TV outlet at the highest levels?

DAWOOKIE check this thread

http://www.dailykos.com/...ory/2005/6/21/10245/1805

I posted this as an "off topic" in another thread, but in case anyone missed it:

BREAKING: Verified Voting Senate hearing, unpublicized, untelevised, convenes

WTF?

Any guesses as to why it was kept secret?

OOPS!

MMIIXX - I think we posted at the same time, your return is just faster than mine cause I tried to get all techie and stuff to make the link *L*

Jim Cirile re: #3 - Hang in there hon, and don't worry, this issue is not going away.

A few weeks ago I did a google news search on "Downing Street Memo" and barely got a dozen hits, and the ones I DID get were mostly blogs with a few overseas foreign newspapers.

Google on it now, see how many hits you get, and how many are mainstream media. The number grows every day.

Try as they might, they can't unring a bell.

BTW, did anybody post the link to the article in Stars and Stripes re: Downing Street Memo? If no one does by tonight, I'll look for it and post it again.

KestrelBrighteyes ,the more that see, the more know!

Brad,

Buckshot is hated on all lefty blogs. Nothing fills people up with vicious hatred more than to have some troll telling you something that you know is not true, and then proving it with factual information that you cannot refute.

I don't enjoy trolling the right wing blogs. Too many religious folks who are basing their beliefs on "faith". You can't argue against faith. Even if they "believe" their mission is to kill you or convert you or enslave you...you simply cannot argue against faith with rational thought and logic.

In the mind of the left wing personality, though, the person views him/herself as a proponent of rational thought and logic. The main problem is when someone upsets the apple cart by blurting out an absolutely rock solid concrete fact, that is the polar opposite of your core beliefs.

This is where good ol' Buckshot enters the scene.

Usually, just by picking one concrete fact, and defending it against all comers, I can get the whole blog's collective stomach boiling in acid. Then here come the insults.

Then here come the obscenities.

Then the name calling.

Then the smokescreens & obfuscations.

Then accusations of evildoing, usually followed by impersonation of Buckshot, posting silly comments under that name.

All of these have taken place just like clockwork, except the last - the impersonation. Instead a person has brought "quotes" from buckshot from other blogs, none of which were authored by me. There's always a loophole, isn't there?

Such a quandry for you Brad. You know you're going to ban me, and you know that it's for telling the truth.

So do it in good conscience and be done with it.
And get on with selling your snake oil to your silly followers, most of whom do not know the difference between FICA, federal withholding, or a hole in the ground.

Anyway, good luck in pushing those paper ballots. I agree with you and the others who believe that the paperless ballot will doom our system of government. It's the only decent discussion I've seen on this blog.

So, speaking of taxes... Just kidding.

#1 --- "The administration, I think, has said to the American people that it is a generational commitment to Iraq."

Take time to absorb the arrogance of that statement. It is also delusional.

"American citizens have said to the administration...(fill in the rest).

OK everybody --- it's time to be Crap Detectors!

The republican party in control loves to say that everything is being balanced with Democrat & Republican presence. However --- look at the message. If it doesn't reflect our dissention, it ain't for real.

Thanks for the link, Kes.

Crap Detectors! man I need to shovel out some of the old crap to make room for the NEW crap ,its coming so fast

KestrelBrighteyes #7
My search of google for "Downing Street Memo" Reports 1.6 milliion pages found.

For a good site to get some ideas on deep google searches (and I mean deeeeeep:-), I recomend Johnny.ihackstuff.com.
There is sooo much more that you can find with google that it will blow your mind if you really look into it. I give this link in the spirit that others may use some of the techniques and find some, all but buried, information. (with google you will find that information hidden BUT on the internet is not hidden from google at all Keep in mind that "hacking" in this context refers to the original definition of a hacker as someone who investigates the ins and outs of technology for the sake of learning, and no other reason

Also, is this the Stars and Stripes link you're speaking of?

As a long time lurker and first time poster, I feel obligated to write something further.I told some fellow employees where I work when the war was gearing up (under way, we now learn) that I could not support it without evidence. Not some politician telling me that there is evidence, but EVIDENCE! (sorry for the yelling:-)I still feel the same way, where is the evidence! An easier job for the Bush administration had they not decided to change the reason for the war every few months.

Re #1 yes, isn't that horrible?

According to our secretary of state, we aren't justified in criticizing this horrible policy of preemptive war anywhere in the world ... because we have already been told that it's going to go on forever!

---------------------------------------------------------
WARNING: CONTAINS DISTURBING GRAPHIC IMAGES
---------------------------------------------------------

How to turn the Iraqi dead and injured from unarmed civilian teenagers to deadly terrorist insurgents in 3 easy lessons!

I wonder whether this sort of criminal activity by both local and international military forces is a regular occurrence in the new liberated Iraq?

Ok 9/11 researchers, I just found this (pasted below) and wonder about this description:

9/11 explosion victim, Lauren Manning's Description of what happened to her --

The morning of the terrorist attacks, Manning, a vice president and partner at Cantor Fitzgerald bond trading firm, arrived in a cab in front of Tower One of the World Trade Center just moments after the first plane hit.

"I remember getting out of the cab and hearing an incredibly loud whistle," Manning recalled in an interview with Oprah Winfrey. "I plunged through the doors wondering what the noise was ... a fireball exploded through the bottom of the elevator shafts, and it caught me from behind and spun me towards the doors. I grabbed the handles, and they must have become super-heated, which is what caused my hand burns. I just plunged out, knowing I was on fire," she said.

============

Why was there an explosion sending a fireball up through the bottom of the elevator shafts just moments after the first plane hit??

re #16 Good Question, Kira! And this is coming from CNN, too, not some "wacko conspiracy-theorist blogger"!

Yes, Kira, I'd read that too. Boggles the mind, doesn't it?

Cancel Your Subscriptions - The Time Has Come
WE MUST STOP FUNDING THE ENEMY AND THE ENEMY IS OUR CORPORATE MEDIA!

We cannot continue to battle the beast while we finance its very existence!

Successful mobilization of the masses by organizations such as Moveon.org has proved two things; 1. Congress does not represent its constituency; and 2. Protests and petitions do not work!!!

I spent some time at kos earlier. The DC Pol Sci diary. (just checked, still there) said she saw on a DC only channel this senate meeting about voting reform.
I just re-remembered. I'll ck back later.
Also got snagged on the "If you love the war, then enlist.

http://patriotboy.blogsp...om/2005_06_19--This may not work.
This is Jesus General . They have this cool campaign

With my slow dialup, I just don't see everything here - can't check out all the threads thoroughly. There is not enough time in the day. (But you'll notice that I've posted a bit more.)

So this is probably redundant in the 9/11 discussion, but from what I've read it's is one of those diminishing possibilities of chance kind of things - narrowing down to a point nearing zero for the official story to be correct, even given that some specific aspects might prove false. (It is actually somewhat similar to the statistical studies on the election.) So, there really isn't a conspiracy theory involved. It's like saying the statistical studies of the election are conspiracy theory. At least, it's the same principle.

Time to discard that "conspiracy" terminology and look at what is real.

Old hat and a day late and a dollar short, I'm sure.

Got to include here those things (what are they?) Peg C posts - Incredibly beautiful. Thank you so much.

Thanks, Arry!

I am worried about ...

... my Diebold votes that get changed from D to R.

... the recruiters not meeting their goals on purpose so they can draft our children.

... a bankrupt country that makes my 401K worthless ...

... the next right-wing religious whacko who gets shoved down our throats by KR and DC.

... the next "Pearl Harbor" to reverse the approval ratings and,

... I am here on bradblog because I cannot get the important news anywhere else. I plan to vote absentee in 2006 but is it already too late to take back Congress?

Is that too many threads?

This senate hearing now has pics and updated info on the front page.

It is a very excellent sight. But most of the people ( and kos) think voting fraud and 911 are--I hate to say this folks--fringe conspiracy theories.
But kos is so huge, and the main focus is how to get Bushco out.

Re: #19 --- True. Why should we fund them? When Velvet Revolution started, I was an advocate for media boycotts. I still think it would be one of the most useful things we could do.

I do believe independent media are the future (we should brand that into our souls), and that we should no longer view much of the MSM as remotely "news" or even truly reformable in their present corporate form. No, they are the courtiers of the power establishment that has become a class and is running wild. That makes them our target. We can at least show them what side their bread is buttered on - the only thing that will have a major impact.

Arry: I have dial-up too. Just be patient. I just don't do video. It takes too long. And some pics.

Great idea, Arry. My TV reception kind of crapped out, when I moved to this rural Iowa valley, so I turned to the net. Anyway, I support your idea!

Jerry welcome ,that's only the half of it ,it's a tangled web THEY weave......

Fellow 911 skeptics BEWARE of the pentagon, concentrate your research on the Twin Towers ,I think the pentagon could bite us on the arse.It should be regarded as “set up central”, we could claim “no plane” then they produce the video from the motel and the gas station that was grabbed by the FBI within minutes of the plane hitting and discredit any and all information gathered so far.
Also I just finished a job and was talking to the guy (who’s an American) and one of his friends was in traffic opposite the pentagon when it was hit and he swears he saw a plane hit , no mistake. I know this is hearsay but I think its worth being VERY CAUTIOUS with the pentagon event.

Seen the latest footage from Iraq ,man what would it be like to live with that FREE DOManated !

The neo-cons got to Durbin.... is that any surprise?
Here's another facet to the tragedy in Iraq. With 20% of the funding going to contractors, no wonder our troops have no armament.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/...rontline/shows/warriors/

#27 Colleen - It would be quite a project to just determine how to go about it. Target print media and sponsors and advertisers of television and radio? Really, this wouldn't be a project that could be small! I was trying to get people together right after the election - people who had expressed interest - but they they were all onto other projects or just plain faded away. Maybe it's not really doable. I don't know.

Anyway, it's easy for me to boycott television as I am very rural too (in California - yes there are such places in California) and it is quite rare to even get one (in decent enough form to see) channel out here.

It is always a shock to me to be out of town in a motel or someplace and to see the utterly vapid, mindlessly feverish wasteland of television and what passes as news.

Hi folks, more 911 info. Most of us have heard of Hunter S. Thompson's "suicide" as he was in the middle of writing a book regarding 911 and claimed to have evidence. I live in Canada and get CBC news which is a respected news outlet here and we get news and documentaries here, one would undoubtedly never see on American news channels. Well, was just talking to my mom about 911, and she told me that she saw on CBC news about three weeks ago that ANOTHER man (she said he was an expert in something but she couldn't remember what) was also writing a book about 911 and was ASSASSINATED (the word the anchor used!) in a hotel hallway somewhere in the States. (She couldn't remember his name either, sorry about the vague details folks, If I had seen this news item, I would have written about this immediately and given details) as I have recently realized the "official story" is not possible. I have such a heavy heart about that day, as I know we ALL do, and even worse now I know it was an "inside job", and so badly want the treasonous criminals hung!! Anyone now writing a book about 911, better not announce they are, as they sure don't live long once word gets out they are writing a book. I have not heard or read of this second death anywhere else, have any of you?? I sure hope the individual that is writing a book about "radiation levels at ground zero" which indicate explosives, doesn't get "suicided"!!! It just gets creepier and creepier!!!

SARAH
Anyone now writing a book about 911 should leave a SUICIDE PASSWORD with their lawyer.

Hi Jerry, and welcome!

I'm sure we all wake up with our skin(s) crawling. I know I do. Every dollar bill in the US could be worthless tomorrow because it's not backed up by anything but IOUs. Every child could be de-spirited with psychotropic drugs. Every forest could be felled. Every beautiful, natural, unfettered thing could be shackled to the grotesque corporate monstrosity that our global "fortress" has become.

All who would not be slaves to the Machine of Armageddon, rise up!

Views of the 170-acre WTC criminal investigation site on Staten Island.

SARAH, I believe it's over!
NIST claim they analysed some 9/11 debris "12mths after the fact" and found no evidence of explosives residue.

Message for Buckshot. You lost the challenge you originally made here.

Details of your loss begin here.

If you have any honor, or hope to have any credibility on this blog, you will pay up immediately.

You will instead, I suspect, either disappear, or do your best Clintonesque parsing to avoid the fact that you lost the challenge. Then you will still disappear, but not before saying a few more times that you "will be banned", just so that when you slink away with your tail between your legs, you'll hope others will think that you've been banned instead.

Do the right thing. Pay up. Character counts. Even for Republicans.

pay up or shut up indeed! great post, brad!

Who are they protecting?

Contract that spawned Guantanamo prisons awarded to Halliburton during Cheney's tenure as CEO
John Byrne at Raw Story

"Experts say firm may have built secret camps......"
more.

Yet another amazing post PNAC - pre-9/11 coincidence!

coincidence , ya right

It is now clear beyond all cavil that Cheney's top-secret "Energy Task Force" was nothing more or less than a Yalta-like arrangement to divide the spoils of the unannounced-but-planned Iraq invasion, two full years before it began. We now know that Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neill were telling the truth...the Downing Street minutes are almost redundant, because they came in 2002.

The key difference is that the press was allowed to report on what went on at Yalta, but nobody was allowed to know what Cheney and his oil-company pals were doing in 2001.

Is this impeachable? Let's bring the Constitutional lawyers in and find out.

Peg C. #39- Quite all right, but believe me, I read a lot anyways, and never more so in these last few months, especially information regarding 9/11. I welcome suggestions of websites or books on any topic! Thank-you, I will try to get my hands on a copy of "Seven types of Ambiguity".

MMIXX #33- You got that right, or write up a document with their lawyer stating they are NOT planning on committing suicide!! Mind you, in this recent case, they (the killer) is just outright blatant about it, aren't they worried this is starting to look mighty suspicious??

BUSHW@CKER #35- Thanks for the link, is this investigation over, or still ongoing?? Oh, it just infuriates me that Guilliani orderd the steel from the WTC site sent to China, deliberately thwarting any investigation which could detect explosives. I can't imagine how New Yorkers and Americans feel about this!!

It's early pages yet, but from what I've read so far: beg, borrow or steal a copy of young Australian author Elliot Perlman's book Seven Types of Ambiguity. It's a multi-conscience scenario of NOW.

And...he writes good!

Sorry, Sarah -

I didn't intend to ignore your outrage. 9/11 had me going from 9/11-and-a-half. Keep the topic front and center (but read some, too).

Hello & WELCOME Sarah!

I haven't read all your comments, so forgive me if you've already seen this link:

This is the 9/11 Blogger site. Scroll down just a bit to find the link to this:
David Ray Griffin on 9/11 - speech - video

This is an hour long and extremely important for any 9/11 researcher to view!

Thanks for your support here.

RLM #46
I think the fact that Cheney can keep the transcripts of those meetings secret should a red flag to anyone that doesn't already know. So who knows?
This secret energy (Big Oil)meeting has always scared the crap out of me. I mean hello?
I know we always blast/work hard to expose the lies and secret agenda of neo-cons--as if it will make them stop.
I keep forgetting that they won't stop, ever.
We have to keep blasting etc. to convince the moderates, independants, and real Christians that what we know about Buchco is true.

re RLM
I got so into rant mode, I forgot to ask. How is it clear? Is it in the MSM or blogs?

Social Security did what?

Brad,

As my offer expires today, this will be my last post.

I gave you many opportunities to provide an example of a poor person in America who pays federal income taxes.

I bent over backwards to state my case in as clear and concise manner as possible. It's almost like left-o-the border folks just can't hear...

All you would have had to do to prove your case was to take an example, say a single woman with two kids who earns $9 per hour, or whatever we could agree is poor, and fill out a tax form for her. It could have been done in five minutes.

Or you could have chosen an elderly poor couple who get by on a pension. Or a young couple with disabilities. Or a young couple with 5 kids. Or a middle aged couple with two kids and raising two grandkids. Or WHATEVER.

We could have done their taxes for them as a project to see if they paid any income tax. It would have been a very simple thing.

Instead, dozens of hours were spent laying smokescreens by you and your followers. Hundreds of obscenities were directed at me. It was like listening to Jerry Springer guests. Amazing that you would encourage that type of "dialogue".

Sadly, the only thing you offer is a link to a thread where a bunch of silliness was discussed by people who don't even understand the issue. Amazing.

Well, good luck with your conspiracy theories.

Colleen, it's clear to me from the rawstory piece by Byrne, and from other anecodotal evidence.

When Hillary Clinton insisted on keeping her plans for national health insurance private back in 1993, she was roundly (and rightly) criticized. Congress has a right to know what's going on whenever people engage in behind-the-scenes social engineering. The Republicans who raised this issue were 100% correct...and it's largely for that reason that Hillary's plan failed.

On the same basis, Congress had a right to know what Cheney and his oil company buddies were up to in 2001. The fact that the same Republicans who condemned Hillary Clinton's secrecy defended Cheney's is very telling...contracts were being promised for the rebuilding of Iraq, before the invasion was announced but after it had been agreed upon.

If all Cheney and friends had been talking about were oil prices and supplies, global warming, and alternate fuels (which any real discussion of an of energy policy would have implied), then there would have been no need for secrecy...the same secrecy Republicans said Hillary wasn't entitled to.

Considering the Byrne article, and the fact that Paul O'Neill and Richard Clarke both said the Iraq invasion had been agreed upon even before 9/11 (let alone in 2002), and that neither O'Neill or Clarke have been refuted on the merits (merely attacked ad hominem), tells us all we need to know about Cheney's so-call energy task force. It was, in fact, a Yalta/Potsdam-style exercise in dividing up the spoils of a military conquest.

Kira #48- Thank-you for the warm welcome. Yes, I have listened to Mr. Griffin's speech, and read his book "The new Pearl Harbour"which was very thought provoking. I am sure you already know that the author Hunter S. Thompson was writing a book about 9/11, and claimed to have evidence. He apparently committed "suicide". Well, on our CBC news here, about three weeks ago, another fellow who was an expert in some field, (sorry the details are vague) was also writing a book about 9/11, was ASSASSINATED (news anchor's word) in a hotel hallway!! Quite the coincidence, two authors, both writing a book on 9/11, and both end up dead!! I am surprised they (killer) aren't worried that this may raise some eyebrows, I guess the book could potentially be much more damaging. You are amazing Kira, with all the links and information you find! BTW, I also have tinnitus, and Ginko Biloba really does work wonders, (rarely if ever do I hear the "ringing" when I take it regularly) do give it some time though, herbs take a while to "kick in". Keep fightin' the "good fight" . All the best.

RLM #54-You are so right, as detailed in Linda McQuaig's book "It's the crude dude, war, oil and the fight for the planet" It is an excellent book that I highly recommend everyone read. Which begs the question, if Cheney and his oil company buddies, were divvying up the "low hung fruit" (an expression in the oil industry of oil that is very easy to get at) in early 2001, how did they know at that time they would have the support of the American people for an invasion to steal their oil?? They knew 9/11 was going to happen, it was an "INSIDE JOB" folks!!

For Sarah: It's a classic "If it quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, it's probably not a frog" argument.

Cheney wanted us to believe, and still thinks we should believe, that he and his "oil experts" (Ken Lay, for example) were interested in helping the country formulate a long-range plan to limit our energy dependence on the Middle East, and take other steps (conservation? alternate fuels?) toward that end. But if you think about it for a millisecond, oil company executives aren't interested in saving energy, only in acquiring it and selling it for a profit. That's the only way Tricky Dick's Halliburton options could retain their value...if the stock did well.

The "energy task force" clearly had nothing to do with a national energy policy. In the first place, that's not the way Republicans think...leaving it all up to the corporate marketplace is their approach, and always has been. In this instance, however, there was much more at stake...a remaking of the Middle East through an invasion of Iraq.

It was in the making all along. Thus, the energy task force had to maintain the kind of secrecy the Manhattan Project had (in "The Lindbergh Syndrome" I mention that Harry S Truman didn't learn about it until he became president...amazing, but true). The excuse was, "Businessmen won't speak frankly if their privacy isn't protected," but that's entirely bogus...they were acting not as PRIVATE businessmen in that circumstance, but as servants of the PUBLIC interest.

I'll leave it to others to show that Bush and Cheney knew 9/11 was going to happen before it did. I found Rev. Griffin's speech convincing, but I don't have the archive of facts to argue the case. It is clear, however, that once 9/11 occurred, it became the raison d'etre for an invasion that had already been agreed upon.

As expected. No character. No honor. Just buckshit.

You were given an example of someone made just over $2000 and had to pay income tax on it.

You have reneged on your challenge. You are a perfect fit for today's Republican Party.

Beat it, loser.

It is easy to figure out, one just has to connect the dots. They needed a big reason to invade (check the PNAC document, and "The grand chessboard" bye Zbignew Brezinski, they needed a "Pearl Harbour like event" to advance their agenda faster) Bush "fixing the facts to fit the policy" any excuse to invade, how three towers fell the same way on that day, the scientific evidence of the temps of those fires could not possibly melt steel, the pictures of the pentagon strike (No evidence at all to support their claims of a huge airliner striking it) why were no planes intercetpted, on and on and on, and NOW TWO authors end up dead who were both writing books on 9/11 that could potentially be catastrophic for this Admin, and there is so much more I could write, one just needs to connect the dots, this evil plan was in the making for a long time!

Hi Sarah! There's sooo much info out there re:9/11. JPentz (one of the regulars here at BB) has just put up a site called Really News. One section deals with 9/11 --- she has collected a lot of links to important info.

Here's her 9/11 investigations link.

Thanks for confirming the Ginkgo Biloba treatment for tinnitus. My dad had good luck with it --- his tinnitus was driving him nuts until he took it. Good stuff, eh?

What a mess we're in now with out country. Thanks for your efforts in searching for the truth along with us.