I have been approached twice in the last two days by local progressives to run for office in either 2010 or 2012. I don't know what the likelihood of that will be, but I've told them all I wouldn't do it as a Democrat - however the Green Party of WA seems to be "on hold". There have been ruminations of forming a progressive third party, I said we should call it the LIST party - Liberal Independents with Socialist Tendencies. But I will look into the Progressive Democrats.

One of the problems with Democrats as a party, however, is pretty much the same as the Republicans. They exist to elect people who are willing to call themselves Democrats and help raise money for the party. On paper there may be policy differences, but in reality there is a lot of muddying of the waters and blurring of the lines. We even got a message from the Dem State party chair about a vacating Congressional seat (WA-3, Brian Baird is not going to seek re-election) and that there are "strong Democrats" in the running for that seat - and an addendum in the message that said "I would expect our Party to readily nominate our incumbent members of Congress, unless they had taken a position against a major Party priority."

So what is a major Party priority? Funding this war? Voting for real healthcare reform? Bailing out Wall Street?

There isn't a single one who would face any kind of challenge from the State Party, any Progressive challenger would necessarily come from outside the Party. And the only true Progressive that holds a seat in Congress for WA is Jim McDermott, WA-7.

Great post, though, Ernest. I always enjoy reading you.

A well spelled out piece Mr. Canning.

I've heard for years now how well organized the right is compared to the left. We on the left need some serious issue oriented organizing at the party level...I think the Dems use a devious divide and conquer political stragegy with it's left wing...

nevertheless...a cogent piece Mr. Canning...

Soul Rebel said:

I've told them all I wouldn't do it as a Democrat

You raise a good question. Why not run as a Dem to change the party for the better? For that matter, PDA works with the Democratic party --- often at odds with the mainstream/leadership, but with the party (via their "outside/inside" strategy). So why not run as a PDA-endorsed Democrat?

I should add, that's neither a rhetorical question or a suggestion. But rather, an actual question worth answering, if you (or others) are willing.

To Soul Rebel, Blue Hawk & Brad: Your thoughtful comments revealed where my article fell short. I've added an epilogue --- somewhat reluctantly given the length of this piece.

I look forward to further comments/constructive criticism that may aid all of us in thinking about these vital issues.

I hate to always be coming off as the cynical old harridan around here, but... well... yer dreamin', Ernie.

Oh! You added an epilogue... better... but... still dreamin'....

Agent 99 said

...yer dreamin, Ernie
____________________

"Some men see things as they are and ask why. I dream things that never were and ask why not." Robert F. Kennedy

Pessimism, 99, aids the status quo.

Thank you Mr Canning,

You make a lot of good points here. I agree that a 3rd party candidate would probably only be a spoiler who takes away votes and effectively putting in the worse of 2 evils into office. AND how could they ever get the funds to get out "their" message in the corporate controlled mass media?

ALSO, you didn't touch down on electronic voting and tabulator theft where elections are run by private companies that now count (steal) the US vote. Using programs that eat themselves, 1 loyal company employee can alter the outcome of the election by a remote computer?

There is NO WAY to ever evidence who someone voted for and or ever have a meaningful recount. This is an important problem to be addressed or this voting ideal is an entirely useless process except for team EMPIRE.

Lastly, I am going share a secret. ooh.

Top REPUBLITHUGS AND ELITE DEMOCRAPERS ARE 1 PARTY PUPPETS OF YOUR NEW WORLD ORDER ILLUMINATI OWNERS. Look no farther than your 1 dollar bill. Not to go on a diatribe about how 3 World Trade Towers were turned into dust in under 10 seconds by these folks but please check out the overwhelming evidence for controlled demolition on your own time at architects and engineers: www.ae911truth.org

Regardless of the missing facts surrounding the 9-11 attack and of course have never been played in the mainstream media whatsoever, my point is this:

9-11 was the excuse for 2 illegal wars still in progress, paid for by US tax dollars and robbing the treasury. It was a battle cry for increasing the POWER of the individuals at the highest levels of government in the 9-11 aftermath. Puppet DEM Obama has done little to reverse most of these additional extraordinary powers and governmental changes made by the Bush regime because he represents the same people. Most people associated with anything illegal as you know have been exonerated of any wrongdoing. The Illuminati decides who goes to jail and who dies.

These people are fcking killers. They are the richest bastards who run the biggest corporations with an iron fist. Multi-national bankers, and military defense "DEATH" contractors, coal and oil barons run the USA and have prospered handsomely from "their" wars.

While I think your idea is stronger than a 3rd party candidate's potential, the said individual will EVENTUALLY be tapped. How thick is his skin and how will he react to death threats to himself and his family? I will lastly remind you sir that President Herbert Walker Bush was head of of the CIA when Kennedy was assassinated.

Of course there are almost as much cover-up of the events on that day as there are to the 9-11 attack. The 80 some video cameras that would have shown Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon precisely on the side that was remodeled to take a hit from an attack WERE ALL CONFISCATED and never shown.

What's up with those terrorist planners? Couldn't they aim for the Pentagon roof or the other 4 sides that weren't refurbished?

I worked for Dennis Kucinich in 2004 and '08. Not sure if he is PDA approved but would be amazed if not. The strangle hold the 2 party system has on us is a real chinese finger pull. Clearly it is just one corporate party with 2 wings and I have gone Green in many elections, voting for Cynthia McKinney last time. But the "you will just throw your vote away" and "you will help elect a worse evil" sadly have some truth as things are currently. When 911 truth reaches critical mass, both parties will be outlawed and we the people will start from scratch witha vibrant MULTI PARTY, representative system. Remember it is our right to "alter or abolish" what doesn't work. Capitalism itself, along w/the MIC, the media and energy sector will all be made subservient to the PEOPLE. You can help build critical mass or you can be part of the problem.

Grizzly Bear Dancer said:

President Herbert Walker Bush was head of of the CIA when Kennedy was assassinated.
_____________________

That is not true.

According to Joseph Trento, Prelude to Terror George H.W. Bush began “doing favors for the CIA” in 1956 after he had moved to Houston and established Zapata-Offshore, which led to his involvement with the anti-Castro Cubans in which the CIA used Zapata-Offshore oil rigs as training areas in advance of the Bay of Pigs invasion.

Where Trento’s sources suggest that George H.W. Bush’s role was peripheral, circumstantial evidence suggests otherwise. The names given to the two repainted naval vessels obtained by Col. Prouty for use in the Bay of Pigs invasion were “Houston” and “Barbara.” The top secret code name for the invasion was “Operation Zapata.”

On November 29, 1963 J. Edgar Hoover directed a memo to the State Department entitled, “Assassination of President John F. Kennedy November 22, 1963,” which revealed that on November 23, 1963 FBI Special Agent W.T. Forsyth and Capt. William Edwards of the DIA briefed “Mr. George Bush of the Central Intelligence Agency.”

However, George H.W. Bush did not become the Director of the CIA until 1975 when he was appointed to that position by President Ford.

Your concerns about e-voting have always been shared by this blog, but go beyond the scope of my article, as does 9/11.

ok, so between the time I began writing my last comment and posting it, Grizzly Bear stole some of my thunder. Good points GB, except I believe Bush was head of CIA in late 70's. He was involved on that fateful day in Dallas, no question, there is abundant proof....but he was not the head in 1963.

Without 911 truth, all else is re-arranging deck chairs on the Titanic. With it we can do great things that will make our great, great grandchildren proud.

dagnabit....beat to the punch again.(on the Bush correction) Great article Ernie. But with all due respect, when discussing ways to improve our system, electoral or any other way, TRUTH is never beyond the scope. I mean, sure, I would love to place my deck chair near that gorgeous red head thats been smiling at me all cruise but...ummm....isn't that an iceberg we are speeding towards?

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.

—John F. Kennedy

And, face it, they have made peaceful revolution impossible.

#10: That I must totally agree with you that once 9-11 is fully "illuminated" in 2010, and US White Alqaeda is held completely responsible, then WE THE PEOPLE can watch these careless parasites beg for mercy when sentenced to swing from a tree for killing thousands to line their pockets.

No need to be afraid, big healthy changes will occur and we must also abolish their secretive non-governmental owned bank that runs the US monetary system called the federal Reserve bank immediately.

1 of their political US mass media rags, TIME magazine named fed reserve bank(not subject to governmental oversight no more than basically any other big corporation)chairman Ben Bernanke MAN OF THE YEAR. HA ha ha ha!!!

After writing blank checks for millions of dollars to the top predatory lenders who caused the US financial crisis, this bastard deserves "criminal of the year" honors only. Of course he accomplished this good deed of handing over a big cash payment without any terms or requirements with the blessings of our sellout robots in Congress.

I also think other countries will not only back us up and help us out, but they will also respect us for correcting this foiled plan of world debt enslavement for the benefit of a greedy few. Our world leadership role will again prevail for the highest reasons. This super wealthy group makes up 5% of the US population of 300 million. These fckers start disappearing and there will be changes.

I would rather have some sort of a Velvet Revolution but you fcking corner a Grizz and shit probably ain't gonna go your way. EVER.

I stand corrected about Bush as head of the CIA. But isn't going to help disprove why they snuffed the man when he (what I have read and heard) changed his stance on war/s. HW Bush is very high up in the Illuminati and you can bet the house on that.

It's hard to talk about relevant to the "EMPIRE" political parties without acknowledging the lie of 9-11 and the fact that regardless of the cover-up, all changes that have been justified in the name of 9-11.

Hey E,

I also appreciate your history behind why Bush Sr. wasn't the head of the CIA back then. It was before I was born but my father is a excellent historian of US history and I use to like to listen to him. Unfortunately, we had a falling out because he wouldn't even listen to evidence about the 9-11 conspiracy or the idea of a an inside job, because he has bought into the TRUTH of the US mass media like a career soldier who agrees with US military engagements based on the fact that the US involvement won WWII back in the day.

Here's a WWII sideline you may be aware of, go back to Brown and Roote at that time, and Grand Pappy Prescott Bush was helping the Nazis accomplish their goals with their death camps and the oil they needed for their military.

Oil for the military, that has an interesting ring to it.

I know it might seem like my anger is overBEARing because.. it is. I look at this mess up situation like I will be part of the solution.

The solution is to get as much of the other 95% of the US population as is needed to cause a new DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE to occur. To not only remove but take down these greedy lying murderous anti-enviro bastards and their propaganda machine while taking care to defend the brave messengers.

OH it will happen Daddy.

The creation of the Federal Government had two main purposes:

1: To prevent further rebellions against the Government, and

2: To prevent the (liberal) rabble from totally taking over the Government. (see 'Rhode Island Coup', 1789 ish)

At least from what I've read anyway. Basically to protect the 'monied interests' (greedy) from the people that wanted to share the burden together.

That's why Jefferson was conveniently overseas during the Constitutional Convention.

The struggle never ends, good post Ern. I can see you're not a member of the circular firing squad anyway. That's a good thing.

Brad -

Why not a Democrat?

I think the Democratic Party is entirely schizophrenic and very happy being that way. When the corporate beholden leadership makes their pitch to the unwashed masses, they use fear as much as the Republicans, but their fear tactics are more covert - the coveted "lesser of two evils" tactic is as much a scare tactic as it is a potential reality. It works very well. They know they can continue using it (the phrase is already being used pursuant to upcoming Congressional races). The success of the method allows very little challenge from within the party - that is, a sitting incumbent who has a reasonable chance of holding that seat against a Republican...that person is going to be the choice of the party regardless. In fact, that particular meme often becomes the primary selling point. "We know X can beat the Republicans in our District, because a history of such success exists...therefore it is not in the interest of the party of the constituents to take a chance on nominating an unproven candidate." Even the active progressives in the party pretty much agree with the sentiment.

I haven't looked at the PDA website yet.

One of the big problems with our current political system - something that sage persons often say is one of the benefits of our democracy - is that the wheels of political change turn slowly. Unfortunately, in 2009 - really, since the advent of television - the world itself moves much faster, evolves, than does our particular government. It is not agile, not intended to be. Money, information, people, technology are blazing forward, and our ass-backwards Congress is brought to a virtual standstill while one Connecticut douchebag decides he wants to have his asshole polished. It's so 19th century robber baron, and ultimately designed (at least in its current incarnation) to protect the powerful and exploit the weak. Part of that protection is preventing peaceful revolution. Kennedy got that message in spades.

If this strategy worked in mostly solid dem districts, would id be possible the losing, usually incumbent reps could pull a liebermen, use their long standing in Congress, name appeal, and appeal to moderate Repubs to get elected as independents\?

WOW!

All of this is outstanding reading.

Frankly I believe we're post revolution. The right wing-corporate-oligarchy has won and occupied our government and electoral process.

Not to be as pessimistic as 99...but I agree with her. We may be tilting at windmills. The lying right wing corporate-oligarchy has the minds of a critical mass of people on lockdown. Our first task is to find the emotional key to unlock those minds (taken from another poster on another thread)...and then once those minds are freed, deliver a truthful message that promises to keep them free...

Not to sound all Morpheous or anything...

Bluehawk, I can agree with your statement if you concede the vast majority of elected Democrats are part of the right wing corporate oligarchy.

I'm with Ernest on this tilting at windmills or no. It's time for A LOT of windmill tilting and anything else we can think of.

BlueHawk--The emotional key is exactly what I'm trying to find for the book I've been asked to write for Chelsea Green. I think I'm locating bits and pieces with all my reading but haven't exactly exploded with the paradigm shifting gestalt yet. Robert Jensen has a book out--All My Bones Shake--that you might find validating and inspiring. I did. Strongest book I've ever read.

Agent 99--Cynicism is required no doubt, cuz we're so fucked. But optimism is required just as much because it's a much more efficient and effective motivation source and we have to act(as I think we all do here). Thank our lucky stars for the paradoxical nature of the universe that has no problem with the simultaneous integration of opposites. And I keep remembering Howard Zinn saying that no one saw the Berlin Wall coming down, or Spain becoming a democracy after Franco died, and all the other unexpected events throughout history. You just never know for sure how things will turn out. So go at it.(again, I feel we of beloved Bradblogdinia ARE constantly going at it)

Personally, I think the beauty of the challenge before us is how impossible everything looks and that this must be acknowledged because it's reality and yet even in the face of impossibility we must find the courage and the urgency to act and act again and again in relentless pursuit of our dreams. Moreover, even with the world going to shit in a fuck bucket we must infuse the relentless pursuit of our dreams with joy and love if we are to stand a chance. Now that's a worthy challenge.

Agent 99 said

And, face it, they have made peaceful revolution impossible.
_________________________

It is easy to be overwhelmed and intimidated by the realization that the war makers have enormous power. But some historical perspective can be useful, because it tells us that at certain points in history governments find that all their power is futile against the power of an aroused citizenry.

There is a basic weakness in governments, however massive their armies, however vast their wealth, however they control images and information, because their power depends on the obedience of citizens, of soldiers, of civil servants, of journalists and writers and teachers and artists. When the citizens begin to suspect they have been deceived and withdraw their support, government loses its legitimacy and its power.

Howard Zinn, A Power Governments Cannot Suppress

Recall that with all its might, the British Empire was brought to its knees by a frail little man in a loin cloth.

When, after deciding to defy the British Viceroy by making salt, after India's jails were filled to the max, and still they came, making their salt, Ghandi said, "What they [the British] do not yet understand is that they are not in charge. We are."

To those who insist --- I agree that there should be a full, complete and impartial investigation of 9/11. If sufficient evidence were obtained during that investigation to "prove" your "insider theory," there should be criminal prosecutions --- just as there should be criminal investigations, and where warranted, criminal prosecutions of those who ordered torture.

But none of that is going to happen so long as the corporatocracy remains in power.

My article was directed at a narrow point --- a unified "Progressive electoral strategy," a strategy which, of course, is based upon the existence of transparent elections in which we can be assured that every lawfully cast vote is appropriately counted.

A Progressive electoral strategy is not the only element required if we are to erase the "democracy deficit."

The Commonweal Institute has been working on a 70-page document entitled the "State of Progressive Infrastructure," which has outlined the need for Progressives "to achieve a sustainable progressive majority in the public and in governance --- a point at which the public...connects with progressive values as their own, at which media and culture express and reinforce this consensus, and at which a majority of legislators and policymakers actively work for Progressive goals."

It is a long-term strategy, as was the strategy of the Right which emerged in response to the '60s Counter Culture.

In order to realize progressive change, the movement must achieve governing power through base-building work in communities, idea generation and policy development, and the electoral process. To generate a culture capable of sustaining those changes over the long-term, however, progressives must also look to the major institutions that influence the public mind: media, the arts, education, religious organizations, the workplace, and the family. Not coincidentally, the conservative movement has put enormous resources into these centers of worldview formation over the past thirty years, in order to undo the old liberal consensus and promote its own goals. A progressive cultural strategy will support the movement’s grassroots, policy, and electoral work by promoting our core values and a common sense of identity. With effective, coordinated work on all of these fronts, the progressive movement can transform American society.

Progressives have several factors working for us.

1. A collapsing economy that isn't serving the needs of the people. This economy as presently constructed will never again serve the whole of the population. The corporatocracy/oligarchy has permanantly shifted the economy to serve only them...the rest of us are left to scramble for scraps. A new left has always risen from those circumstances.

In that kind of scenario progessive-socialists have always come to power.
Seems the corporatists forgot the basic law of governance..."to lead the people you have to feed the people"

Their greed will be their downfall...as it always has been throughout history....the only question is how long ?

2. Maybe Obama's campaign reawakened the idealist in us all...and even if he's in the process of selling us out; it won't quiet the idealist left that responded to his campaign. His sellout may just refocus us to true energy and power.

3. The more loony the far right gets...the better it is for truth tellers on the left.

camusrebel @22

Absolutely

On language: it wasn't "insanity" of the 8 Bush years, it was deliberate conservative agenda and very successful. On Obama and "branding" - Chomsky has said it also, and has been quoted on Znet in several articles recently and over time by Paul Street about Obama www.Zcommunications.org/znet
BlackAgendaReport www.blackagendareport.com was not fooled by Obama long before the election.

As Zinn points out, it's not just going to vote every election, but working on making change from the ground on up. Howard Zinn's Bill Moyers interview transcript was on www.truthout.org last week.
And, one more time, public financing of elections.

You're looking at the power distribution wrong.

A progressive base will not acquire meaningful power on it's own.

You MUST convince those who threw their hats in with the GoP that they were used. That the legislative promises made to them were empty promises and never to be fulfilled.

In other words, we need to make it clear to true Christians that the corporatists on both sides of the aisle used them and then robbed them blind.

To shake off the evil hand of oppression, the progressive wing, and I mean this in all sincerity, needs the teabaggers. the one's who already do not trust their government.

That's a very tall order, and not likely to happen, but they are now the disaffected and disenfranchised Christian conservative base. they're not beholden to Rush, and beck is easy to debunk and they have a very weak and unelectable leader in Palin.

I'm speaking of a Kucinich/Paul alliance. With all of it's unsavory undercurrents, I see that as the only way to wrest power away from the corporate kleptocrats who wrap themselves in blue and red.

Well, NYCartist, from where I sit, I find it difficult to separate "the deliberate conservative agenda" from collective "insanity."

Sorry for the all bold, no clue where that came from, can you correct?

[ed note: Wasn't you, Dan. NYCartist forgot to close the bold on the comment before yours. --99]

Dear Brad:
As a progressive who celebrated the election of Barack Obama and the huge Democratic majorities in the Congress, I hoped for real change and share the huge disappointment. Your proposal to change the Democratic Party was my dream 20 or 30 years ago. At that time it seemed much more realistic than today when, in fact, it was simply a pipe dream. There is a way to accomplish real change but that involves real work in a real progressive movement like the Progressive Party or Green Party. Progressives believe the lie that a third party vote is a wasted vote and come up with "easier" solutions like transforming an entrenched national political Party from the inside. The trouble with unrealistic dreams is thast they are panacea for real solutions. Progressive ideas will be acceptable to Democratic Establishment when their candidates have a legitimate threat from the left. Third Parties may not displace the two major parties but they force a major Party to take their ideas seriously and act upon them. One simple message will change American politics forever. "Third Parties are viable so vote your true beliefs." I think progressives are getting the message and I have great hope for the future.
Sincerely,
Dave

Very thoughtful comment, David Hennessey.

However, on this, I am perhaps a bit "Left" of a good number of Progressives. I do not think our goal is to convince the "Democratic Establishment" that there is a "legitimate threat" from the Left.

I want to remove the "Democratic Establishment" from its power base inside the Democratic Party altogether and replace it with a truly democratic Democratic Party that is ruled from the bottom-up, with only those who reflect progressive values permitted to "lead."

I don't think there's much future in our petitioning bought-and-sold politicians, begging them to do the right thing. If the past 60 years has proven anything, it's that, for those who have sold their souls to Wall Street, the military-industrial complex and corporate America, regard our pleas to do the right thing as nothing more than an irritant requiring that they engage in the deception of "pretending" to support the progressive agenda, as they stab the nation in the back during their closed door meetings with corporate wealth and power.

It's a rather simple rule of "representative democracy" that those who are elected must "represent" the interests of the electorate. And the PDA, not Third Parties, provides the most viable tool for realization of that democracy.

Ernie

The only real energy to do something about this mess is waaaay to the right of us and I can't seem to talk anyone into communicating with them well enough to make that energy count for something good.

We have no little man in a loincloth! We have assassinated everyone who even held the promise of becoming like the little man in the loincloth.

We have bloggers who end up having not to trample on the mass hypnosis after they reach a certain level of popularity or then have to sacrifice eyeballs to even begin to take an ion of little-man-in-a-loincloth-ness. The masses of liberals, who mostly also like to call themselves "progressive", can't even tear themselves away from conforming with the sick talking points fed to them... the ceaseless hissies about Palin, et al. to pay attention. I have been drilling non-stop on some extremely intelligent people about this stuff and they're helpless to stop themselves, even when I've finally managed to make them see. Shortly it becomes as though I'd never piped up.

And the PDA is beyond the beyond too lame to even make a start... even if it were a situation where we had the time left on this planet to turn that Titanic around by swimming with the tug rope in our teeth.

I think yer wonderful, but yer dreamin' dude!

Or... well... how do you look in a loincloth?

Agent 99 @34

Well said....99 I've heard your message about trying to reach out to the teabagging right. it's logical...it's rational....but habits are hard to break.

I've been verbally at war with the right wing for over 10 years, give me and others time to lay down our arms and muster the guts to find common ground...Trust me 99 I've been trying. Sometimes when I hear some loony assed proclamation from a right winger; I kneejerk into conflict mode. What's different now is that I know it's counter-productive...I know now that it actually hinders true progress...I know it only further entrenches the right wing lunacy...but as I said habits are hard to break.

But I am aware now when I do that...and that's the first step in changing a behavior...being aware when one is engaging in that behavior.

I'm trying 99...dadgummit I'm trying....

BlueHawk said:

99 I've heard your message about trying to reach out to the teabagging right. it's logical...it's rational....but habits are hard to break.

It's also fruitless. There is nothing to reach out to. Those are not "patriots", those are partisans and haters for the most part. The ones who aren't are the Ron Paul libertarians who have foolishly mistaken the tea baggers for friends. They aren't their friends, no matter how convenient the bed-fellery looks at the moment. The tea baggers have coopted the legtimate Ron Paul movement, and the Paulies should call them out for it, and disassociate themselves from the tea baggers in the strongest terms possible, rather than welcoming them aboard their fight.

It's not the same fight. Not by a long shot. One fight is for real, the other fight is for politics.

Thanks BlueHawk... try to ignore Brad, please, because he has a lot of nerve calling those kettles black... even just having the willingness to try to treat them as in some wise worthy of respect is half the battle. Brad hasn't gotten there yet.

Both fights are for politics and neither side exactly gets it... yet....

I think I became invisible again. Later. Guess I'll go take a look for myself. Know I'm around here somewhere. Good luck everyone.

Comments@ 36&37

I'm gonna try to not sound like a huge copout...

I see both 99's and Brad's points.

Brad is saying that the teabaggers are coming from an intellectually vacant space; they're energized by lies and hate...Which makes them seem unreachable and useless.
Brad's right. But we HAVE TO TRY!

Brad I believe that we need to break the anti-truth force field around teabagger's minds...We can't do that by always telling them how wrong they are (they're as wrong as fur on a lizard) and mocking their efforts...Frankly I don't know how they can be reached, outside of some world class psyops....which would make us just as bad as them.
All I know is that I'm ready to stop warring with them...I firmly believe that our world hangs in the balance...
Us; the sane minority have the responsibility to find a way to break the lying spell of the hypnotized masses.

Agent 99...I think Brad feels that trying to reach out will require concessions and comprimise of truth principles...I don't think it neccesarily requires that kind of sacrifice.

Another commenter (David Lasagna I think)...spoke of finding an emotional trigger to unlock the teabaggers minds and insert some freedom giving truth. I agree with that...I don't know what the emotional trigger will be...I just know that an emotional trigger will be a huge factor.
I'm not a psycologist...I just play one on the internet...

But I see both your points...I side with 99 while fully understanding how Brad feels.

To have a mass truth movement...we need the mass part.
It seems like every truth that we on the left get aired in the public...the right wing teabaggers have a ready made lie to counter it. For the war to end someone has to be sane enough to find a way to connect with the other side...without comprimising what we believe in...but by demonstrating the benefit our principles have for everyone.

The only other alternative is civil war...

I'm afraid I'm far too modest for the loin cloth, 99. But that doesn't prevent me, or you, from appreciating the basic truth in Ghandi, MLK, or, for that matter, Howard Zinn. Those teachings reveal both that fundamental change from below is "always possible" and that pessimism and cynicism are inconvenient mental defense mechanisms which must be overcome by all who desire to effectuate meaningful change.

That doesn't mean engaging in an exercise in futility.

Reaching out to a teabagger would be the equivalent to Winston Smith, the protagonist in Orwell's 1984, trying to convince one of his fellow brainwashed citizens that Oceania has not always been at war with East Asia, when they know otherwise because the Party has told them otherwise. And for the teabagger there is no reality but that which Fox News says is real.

Finally, this idea that we must somehow appeal to the Right misses the point, entirely!

The fundamental truth embodied by the "democracy deficit" is that the great masses of the people of this nation are much further to the Left than the corporate media would have you believe.

Chomsky makes this point in Failed States:

In his landslide victory in 1984, just under 30 percent of the electorate voted for Reagan. Of these, 4 percent gave as their primary reason that he’s a real conservative….polls showed that by 3 to 2, voters hoped that Reagan’s legislative program would not be enacted…[and] that the public favored tax increases devoted to New Deal and Great Society programs. Support for equal or greater social expenditures was about 80 percent in 1980, and increased in 1984. Cuts in Social Security were opposed with near unanimity….The public preferred cuts in military spending to cuts in health programs by about 2 to 1. Large majorities supported government regulations to protect worker health and safety, protection of consumer interests, help for the elderly, the poor….But none of this matters as long as elections are skillfully managed to avoid issues and marginalize the underlying population, freeing the elected leadership to serve the substantial people.

The poll I cited in this piece reflecting that 76% of all Americans favor a "public option" also revealed that the public option is supported by a majority of Republicans.

The task is not so much to reach out to "conservatives" but to pierce the fog of corporate and religious propaganda; to reveal a basic truth --- that the great masses of the American people are, in fact, Progressives, even though most don't realize it.

I have a sister who is of a teabagger's mindset. I have another sister who is hip to the jive and trying to reach the one who's thinking is locked.

I believe we've been seeing a little movement in my neocon sister's thinking. Don't know where it'll go or how much fruit might be born. I only see that there IS a little movement. That gives me hope. It's an unbelievably painstaking process requiring(from my intervening sister)infinite patience, intelligence, information, effort, and creativity and all with absolutely no guarantee of success.

And I know there isn't time for this. We need to fix things forever ago. There are probably a million ways to be more effective with our time. But she's our sister and she DOES have a brain and Lasagnas are stubborn. So some of us are engaged(in varying degrees)in this challenge. It's one of the things we're called to do.

And I wonder whether part of the problem in our(non teabagger society's) frustrated attempts trying to address this particular form of our mass dysfunction is our tendency to put all these people into one category. Those crazy teabaggers. Maybe it's not a one size fits all problem. Maybe there isn't a single key to unlock everyone's mind. Maybe it's a shitload of personal individual keys. That's what it feels like in our case. A very specific elusive key. Might not even exist.

I'm inclined to think that part of the key, if there is a key, is for us to live a different way. Create an irresistible new force of change. Which brings us back to Ernest Canning's blog entry here and why I think it's right on.

And it sounds like maybe this is what they're doing in many places in Central and South America. Rather than fight the entrenched interests every step of the way they're using their time, energy, and efforts to create progressive alternatives. Which has an enormous gravitational pull and seems to be a developing, momentum gathering lifeforce.

Hey Brad,
I like you alot. I wish you luck in changing the Democratic Party into a different Party but it doesn't make sense to me. You can start with the Green Party or Progressive Party and the platform and people in those Parties already agree with you and are committed to action now. Or...You can remain the Democratic Party and face the task of defeating wealthy, connected power-brokers who oppose your platform and your plans and be left with the shreds of a Party if you win. I applaud you and hope you fight but watching the Democratic Party misuse and abuse its best and most faithful workers, like you, is my best argument for joining a third Party. Greens are good for you, didn't your mother tell you?
Dave

Well, guys, that's why I don't think it's a waste of time talking to tea partiers. I know a bunch of people sympathetic to that action, though I don't think any of them have gone out and demonstrated, and they're ALL for single payer. I live right in the middle of Rednecksville and everyone I talk to on the street is for single payer. THEY'RE ALL REPUBLICANS!

So this fake polemic being stoked with noxious chemicals from both sides is horseshit. I'm certain of it. But nobody's going to get a clue about this if they don't stop screaming and do start talking to each other one-on-one, in the grocery line, or at the Post Office, or wherever.

It's completely out of hand.

A few loudmouths are broadcast, a few shill mills staffed, a few blogs stoked for Civil War and a few pissed off dim bulbs out yelling with the Paulites... and that is enough to bring us to our knees?

The Republicans shut up because they think they'd be seen as traitors and half the Democrats shut up because they don't give a fuck about anybody as long as it can LOOK like they do... and everybody else is just ripping away at completely bogus "enemies" while the real enemies sit back and laugh and laugh and laugh, while their bank accounts get fatter and fatter and fatter.

Jump out of this psychedelic system and, poof, it's plain as day what the only recourse is. No one will go there.

As someone who has been on the Left for many decades, Ernest's points about a democracy movement deeply resonate with me. He is correct that most people want progressive change, but are in a fog as to how it can be done. To talk about convincing teabaggers is indeed missing his whole point, that most Americans do side with us.

He correctly notes that we do not have an infrastructure on the Left to counter the massive array of organizations created by the Right, and funded by both individually wealthy billionaires, as well as corporate America.

Here in CA, progressive Democrats are in the process of democratizing our state party, with initially positive results. There is much work to be done, and PDA is a major source of support for our efforts.

Finally, I have no illusions about our empire and the lengths it will go to to retain power. But until that man in a loincloth comes along, let us listen to one another deeply, and start talking to our younger generation, as they are going to be left with the mess that we have not solved.

I was just talking to a liberal friend on the phone. He was whining about all the people who think "communist" or "socialist" is just about the worst thing you could call somebody.

Well, anyone who thinks that who isn't a billionaire OBVIOUSLY doesn't know what those are. There's nothing for anyone who isn't a plutocrat to dislike that rabidly about those things. So instead of bitching and hissing and whining about "willful ignorance" and such, what the hell is wrong with going out and willing them to be a little less ignorant, getting with them and explaining things in terms they can understand?

NOTHING IS WRONG WITH THAT!

It's the same shit with the argument over whether to call it "corporatism" or "fascism". People think "fascism" is what Germans and Muslims do, so some think it's wiser to bitch about "corporatism" so these people don't think yer a foaming maniac.

Well, America is a fascist country. There's no two ways about it. And if people stop and bother to explain it to people who don't understand how that could be, poof, you've got a bunch of fascism killers finally wanting to kill fascism again.

Buuuuuut nooooooo....

We gotta fight and scream and pound our chests with what sterling and patriotic progressives we are and what imbecilic and dangerous troglodytes they are.

We were howling for Dubya's impeachment by the time he'd gone as far as Obama has. They're a couple centimeters away from shoving mandatory health insurance down our throats — and calling it "healthcare reform" — the planet's burning down from drone attacks, wars and carbon overload — and WHAT are we doing? Why we're still calling each other names, that's what!

David Lasagna:
Teabaggers are like teeth, you only try to save the ones that you want to keep:) It's easy to be dismissive of these people who seem so adamant and angry but they have the same concerns that you and I do. They are not all Republicans and are often very compassionate "Christians" who have a progressive side. They share the concern of the progressives about money and corruption in politics the Government/Corporate stranglehold on America. Progressives want to turn the stranglehold into a gentle hug but teabaggers just want to get out of it. In regards to this Senate Health Bill , I agree with the teabaggers and don't see any reform but rather a sick alliance to split the obscene profits of health insurance and drug companies between corrupt politicians, billionaire executives and the lobbyists who grease the fingers. A battle has been lost, but the war goes on. Single Payer Forever!
Dave

BlueHawk @ 40 -

You might have misinterpreted my position. Or I might have misinterpreted 99's. Or you hers.

I believe it makes ever bit of sense in the world to keep giving the TRUTH to the tea baggers, whether they want to hear it or not. Much of the time spent in my li'l documentary Rise of the Tea Bags was meant to be doing exactly that.

But I think I understood 99 to suggest that the Tea Baggers were more right than wrong, so we should be joining with them, rather than knocking sense into them. If so, I couldn't agree less. The tea baggers, for the most part, are misinformed dupes and/or complete phonies. We ought to inform the misinformed, and call out the phonies.

Simply because they similarly oppose Obama on any given thing, is hardly reason to join forces with the. Especially since most of the reasons they oppose Obama are complete bullshit ("Death panels" on health care reform, "Dithering" on Afghanistan, etc.)

Politics made strange bedfellows sure. But you don't join with someone whose full of shit, simply because they happen to oppose the same person you do, but on a completely ridiculous basis.

Hope that clears up my point. But not surprised if it doesn't.

David Hennessy said, in various comments above:

Hey Brad,
I like you alot. I wish you luck in changing the Democratic Party into a different Party but it doesn't make sense to me.

Are you responding to Ernie's article? If so, he wrote it, not me. If you're responding to me (one of my comments above), I don't believe I called for what you suggest, even as it sounds fine to me.

You can start with the Green Party or Progressive Party and the platform and people in those Parties already agree with you and are committed to action now.

Also sounds fine to me. (Though I know on at least one issue, IRV, I couldn't disagree more with my friends in the Green Party, including my very good friend David Cobb, former Green Presidential Candidate from '04).

Or...You can remain the Democratic Party

I can't "remain" a part of a party that I'm not with in the first place.

I applaud you and hope you fight but watching the Democratic Party misuse and abuse its best and most faithful workers, like you, is my best argument for joining a third Party.

They haven't abused me, and I ain't one of their "most faithful workers". I don't work for them at all. Or any party, for that matter.

Greens are good for you, didn't your mother tell you?

She didn't have to.

Progressives believe the lie that a third party vote is a wasted vote

I don't. And I certainly consider myself a progressive. Yet, nothing appalls me more than hearing someone be told they are "wasting" their vote by voting for a third party candidate.

As I've responded many times, you don't get a prize for picking the winning candidate. Vote for whoever u goddamned want to, and whoever you think is best suited for the job. Period.

They're more right than wrong insofar as they have gotten up off their asses to get out there and scream their heads off about nefarious stuff. It's beyond unfortunate the way they are being used by the Republicans and the Democrats. They aren't all the brightest bulbs on the string — and many of them only say what they say because it's what they hear at church or is coming in emails from people they think are on their side — but a lot of them are very smart and just sick to death of being screwed, scared to death by this tsunamic "bailout" that's up to $14 trillion now — a bunch of them want out of the wars — all of them are mad as hell and don't want to take it anymore. They don't know they've been hoodwinked into giving the Democrats political cover for NOT delivering what they never intended to actually deliver. So the jaded fucks in D.C. and here on the tubes are just lapping it up and amping it up to make sure the fatsos get fatter. It pays. Political consultants — and a political consultant is a marketer — are just giggling and giddy over how much play this is getting.

Do you really want to play this game? Really?

We should be joining them and knocking sense into them... not megaphoning the fascist political consultants' talking points. I don't see how that could still be unclear.

The teabaggers have it right. They have not only started the teabagging party; but, they have effectively realized their threat of electoral power which has left the GOP Party scrabbling for political rhetoric that defies gravity. The progressives must awaken the beast within the Democratic Party in similar fashion. A third party consolidation of Progressives, liberals would embolden current and future party candidates. It seems apparent to liberals & progressives that the GOP run circles around our Congress as well as our Adminsitration. Out manuevering does not seem to be a particularly Democratic Party inherited trait. The Teabaggers have it right and they have the guts to run with it.

Brad @48

Yes your comment makes sense.

What 99 has shown me is that the corporatist/fascist cabal has done is a classic divide and conquer manuver on the American public. A divided public at each other's throats gives the fascists free rein to continue the looting of our resources. money and political will.

Teabaggers share the same *emotional* energy as I do...they and we are pissed off. They for completely made up dumb bullshit and we are pissed at the absence of truth and accountiblity. The commonground we share with teabaggers is the pissed off part...if we can somehow get them to listen to what and who is actually fucking them around we'll start to gain a critical mass of people to have a real truth based movement.

As 99 said they have the energy, we have the truth...marry our truth with their energy and things can really happen. Teabaggers have a truth crisis...we really need to airlift some truth into their rallies. Given truth...they won't need Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh or Faux news...we can educate them about how to investigate/research their own positions...ie give them their minds back and teach them how to properly use said minds.

It's a daunting task...but hey so was the suffragettes movement of the early 20th century, the civils rights and voting rights movement of the 50's and 60's.

As the little man in the loincloth said....
"Be the change you want to see in the world"

Brad, BlueHawk, Agent 99, Ernest Canning, David Hennessey--I love you.

We're getting near that time of year when we celebrate the return of the light(a sensible thing) by pretending that a woman who'd never had sex gave birth to God's son(kinda cuckoo). So, you know, I try to do my part by declaring some love now and again. That, at least, is something I can do with a full heart.

The problem, David Hennessy, with your Green Party solution is that it leaves corporate America in a position to continue the "illusion of choice" between a Democratic and Republican Party.

The PDA strategy, if successful, would eliminate corporate control of the Democratic Party, leaving in its wake, a truly democratic organization that would represent the interests of huge numbers of ordinary Americans.

With the corporate stooges out, the dichotomy of choice becomes all the more visible. Multiple parties, Greens, Libertarians, Socialist Workers, etc., muddy the waters.

Finally, it all gets back to a basic historical fact --- Third Party strategies have proven to be an exercise in futility. It gets back to the basic point my freshman college history professor said in 1969. The Left, despite its great numbers of well-educated intellectuals, possesses an astounding inability to count.

Señor Lasagna

I love you back.

xoxox

And, BlueHawk, you too.

Thank you for restating my position so well. That was a great Christmas present!

xoxox

Agent 99 @ 50 said:

They're more right than wrong insofar as they have gotten up off their asses to get out there and scream their heads off about nefarious stuff.

With all due respect, I'll disagree completely. They are "scream[ing] their heads off", but not about the actual "nefarious stuff". They are screaming about complete and utter inane bullshit.

a lot of them are very smart and just sick to death of being screwed, scared to death by this tsunamic "bailout" that's up to $14 trillion now — a bunch of them want out of the wars — all of them are mad as hell and don't want to take it anymore.

Really? Which ones "want out of the wars"? I've seen no evidence of that. At all. Feel free to share.

They are "scared to death" about the bailouts because they've been instructed to be scared to death by them. They weren't scared at all when Bush was spending insanely and cutting taxes, without bothering to figure out how to pay for either of them. They didn't give a damn. So, you'll pardon me now if --- while I have my own personal concerns about same --- I give absolutely no credence at all to those pretenders now who think something has suddenly gone south thanks only to Obama and the Dems.

Had they spoken up over the last eight years (like the Ron Paul folks did), I'd give them every credence. Such as they didn't, I don't. And I'm surprised you'd fall for it. I don''t think you would, frankly, other than they happen to agree with your own personal conclusion (that Obama is a disaster), so it seems that you are, in reality, the one hoping to "use" these folks to amplify that belief, in truth.

Again, I say that with all due respect, but with firm disagreement with your position on the tea baggers.

We should be joining them and knocking sense into them... not megaphoning the fascist political consultants' talking points. I don't see how that could still be unclear.

It's not unclear. It's just wrong. Utterly, in my opinion. Joining them is enabling their insanity and the corporatist scam artists who are creating it, and I'll take no part in that, no matter how coincidentally some of their goals may accidentally coincide with any of my own.

Now, that said, the Tea Baggers may someday save the world. But more on that interesting thought, which I've been pondering of late, at a different time, after I ruminate a bit more on the notion and am better able to articulate it...

I'm sorry, 99, but when it comes reaching out to the Tea Baggers, it is "I" who must play the role of "pessimist."

I suspect that many of the emails containing expletives, and threats of violence and death against the Velvet Revolution in response to the Fox News/Chamber of Commerce hit piece came from the folks we've come to call Tea Baggers --- the same people who followed scripted disruptions intended to shut down one of this nation's oldest forms of democracy --- the Town Hall meeting.

Frankly, I'm having a good deal of intellectual difficulty in distinguishing a Tea Bagger from a Nazi brown shirt. Perhaps you, or another Brad Blog reader who favors reaching out to these uninformed, blinded-by-the-right followers can explain that difference to me.

As I see it, these people have had their heads buried within the right-wing echo chamber's disinformation bubble for so long, they are impervious to facts and reason; making any effort to reach that far to the right fruitless.

Brad

Your opinion needs deeper consideration.

And, it never stops upsetting me that you play right into the hands of despicable people with this not-carefully-enough-considered position. I would call it knee-jerk, but yer knee has stayed jerked too long to call it that. Yer being stubborn and contrary and sensationalistic where it is of some consequence you to consider this stuff more carefully.

You keep insisting yer not a Democrat and that you didn't vote for Obama, but you do and say so much that lends itself so much to their success in driving the last nails in our coffin!

I know yer showmanship is an impeccable addition to the catalog of satisfying and even illuminating polemicizing on the tubes and on the air, but, ahem, not good enough! You should be using those talents to bring more wisdom to the table.

You want a Velvet Revolution? Wisdom is the prime mandate for such a thing! Get a loincloth and meditate!

Ernie

I have stated a number of times that I happen to know people in sympathy with the Tea Party gig... and bump into others of them in the course of my life in the redneck haven where I live. They all want Single Payer. They all want the warring to stop. They all want Main Street over Wall Street. The ones with whom I have spoken take readily enough to having their misinformed positions modified.

One of the biggest sticking points is that they are FREAKED about the trillions going out for wars and Wall Street, about the betrayal of government, and so they are easily turned against this shit healthcare thing on those accounts. You pointed out at one time that something like nearly 80% polled as in favor of universal healthcare, and I have seen where 60% even went so far as to say they wouldn't mind paying more taxes to have it. Well, a lot of them who said that are also at the Tea Party demonstrations.

They've just been mindfucked... or a good number of them have, and they not only can, but almost certainly will, change their minds when we stop fighting them and trying to humiliate them, and express our solidarity with their irk and ire WHILE showing them where they've been misled.

I do NOT lie. In the vast majority of cases, I've found the right-leaners more willing to amend themselves when somebody shows them where they're wrong.

Brad judges this stuff primarily off the crap he's been getting from trolls, many paid trolls, for five years. He doesn't have a big pool of them in his personal life to get a better take on what's REAL. Most city-dwellers don't. But out here in the country, it's a whole different ballgame, and THIS is where this ballgame has come from.

Listen to me. Please.

Well, 99, if you personally know what you appear to be describing as individuals leaning in the Tea Bag direction, by all means, seek to educate them. Since so many red necks don't favor the printed word, persuade them to link to Democracy Now so that they may broaden their minds by "watching" the broadcasts.

Who knows, at that point they might become receptive to and even contribute to this blog.

But the angry mob mentality at the Town Halls; the dangerous vitriol directed at the Velvet Revolution, go well beyond that. They display the same mindlessness of the Nazi brown shirts, and they've been (in your words) so "mindfucked" by the likes of Glenn Beck that even attempting to persuade them with truth might be hazardous to your health.

And then who would we get to police this site?

I've been in the belly of the beast many times and come out unscathed... and having made a difference. I never stop doing this stuff, though my scope is limited badly by my lack of funds.

I'm trying to think of where I just recently saw a great exposition of just how easy it is to turn good people into monsters who will do things like send death threats. It happened in Germany. It's happened in Israel. And it's happening in the United States now.

It's true that the media are the prime movers in this nowadays, and it would be true that it could be countered with a heavier presence of the left in media, but I think we've already been shown in a thousand ways how that is not going to happen... or if it will... it will CERTAINLY take much too long. The only other option is to get out there among those made maniacal with this stuff and convince them about the better aim for their ire.

They can be convinced! As long as you don't do underhanded shit like try to convince them to side with the Democratic fuckers saddling them with mandatory health insurance on top of the generations and generations of tax slaves from the bailouts and wars. As long as you don't treat them like brain dead assholes for being so pissed off, they are generally extremely receptive to good education. Assault them, and they will fight you to the death. Come in as their brother or sister, treat them as your fellow citizens, and that is IMMEDIATELY a completely different story.

THEY HAVE BEEN DRIVEN TO THIS BECAUSE THEY'VE BEEN CONVINCED THEY ARE UNDER SIEGE BY THE LEFT... INSTEAD OF UNDER SIEGE BY THE PLUTOCRATS.

The minute you completely drop the left/right crap, and relate with them on equal grounds, bip-bam, they're reasonable as hell. NOT with a microphone stuck in their face and a video camera rolling. No amount of reasonable-sounding can work under those circumstances. At home. At church. At the local cafe. At the post office or grocery store. Hell, probably EVEN at the demonstrations... if you make it clear you're just as mad as they are about this shit.

You guys need to realize your good intentions are being used against you every bit as badly as their good intentions are being used against them! Just because it feels good to be able to crow about all the ways these people are wrong or bad or stupid or dangerous, just because you can go on endlessly about this stuff and be right enough for government work, doesn't erase that fact.

And I outright HATE all the polemical crap here and am having to take loooooong breaks from my policing not to just go find Brad and poke him in the nose.

Maybe you can even identify with this feeling of being under siege, feeling less willing to interact meaningfully with the other side, since some evil jackass rounded up a bunch of people to send death threats to VR! That's the stuff that deepens the divide, and the whole point is that the divide has to stop existing or we're dead... all of us.

And why ever should the Democrats pay for Brad and Mike and others when they are getting so much out of them for free?

You want a truly for the people superstructure? You gotta get in the churches and in the labor unions and in the bread lines. You gotta cull all the spin doctors, and devotees of the "politically feasible" from the PDA, for sure, or it's a dead letter.

Anyway, you guys feel besieged and can't shake your bunker mentality any better than the guys on the other side. This has to get fixed.

99, please take a deep breath. No one is personally attacking you. There is room for reasonable people to disagree, and this is an issue on which, as Brad so aptly puts it, we can "respectfully" agree to disagree.

Ernie

I don't feel attacked. I'm breathing just fine. I'm not fighting. Merely trying to cut through the head trips, part the clouds. A lot is riding on those clouds parting. So I bothered.

Dear Brad and Ernie,

I'm with Agent 99 on this one and I think for some reason you both aren't quite getting what she's saying.

Ernie you say--Frankly, I'm having a good deal of intellectual difficulty in distinguishing a Tea Bagger from a Nazi brown shirt. Perhaps you, or another Brad Blog reader who favors reaching out to these uninformed, blinded-by-the-right followers can explain that difference to me.

As I see it, these people have had their heads buried within the right-wing echo chamber's disinformation bubble for so long, they are impervious to facts and reason; making any effort to reach that far to the right fruitless.

Okay, maybe, but why stop there? Rahm Emmanuel, Barack Obama, Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, Hillary Clinton, etc., and the MSM who "report" on them all are likewise in their own bubble chamber and by their actions also seem impervious to facts or reason. And so far they've been responsible for a helluva lot more death and destruction than these current teabaggers.

There are lots of bubble worlds full of magical thinking across the political spectrum. From my own experience and what I get from 99's narrative it sounds like teabaggers are at least as open to new info as say Barney Frank is to considering the need for election reform. How open is Barack to getting HIS mind changed? So we all agree there's a lot of stuck thinking.

I think the message here is the same one I've been trying to get to. It's an art form(and it may be Quixotic) to engage in doing this I'll grant you, but I suspect you don't have to dig very deep to find common cause with the Bagsters. Many of the bagsters' political info details may be screwy but then again all my liberal friends are for the most part completely screwy in their details, too. What I see in the teabaggers is their sense that they're being screwed by power beyond their control and they're pissed about it. I think they're exactly right, they just have the story wrong so they're focussing they're anger and political will in the wrong places.

Look, maybe this is a way to explain it. I was in a cult once.(It was in L.A. and I got kicked out). The teabaggers and almost all other Americans are in a cult now. The giant cult of misinformation, misplaced anxiety, and inappropriate projections that is the U.(Unconscious) S.(Sleepwalkers) of America. The teabaggers like almost everyone have been insidiously coopted by the brainwashing but at least they're engaged. Brad and Ernie think they're a lost cause. Agent 99 and I think they're a tremendous possible resource. Working to rechannel their rage is a challenge requiring inspired creativity and effort but wouldn't it be something to harness all that energy for the things that actually matter? If one of the major factors, and we all know it is, is misinformation, doesn't it seem at least possible that accurate information appropriately and artfully offered/shared could effect a change in worldview?

I apologize. I'm not being terribly coherent here. I'm in the East. It's late and I'm tired and this stuff is hard to articulate. So I'll just say again, I'm with Agent 99 on this one.

Plenty of meat in that generous portion of Lasagna, but not enough time to eat it all tonight. Suffice to say for now that this: "Brad and Ernie think they're a lost cause. Agent 99 and I think they're a tremendous possible resource." is not how I see things. But don't have time to elucidate for the moment on either that, or the chunks of 99's notes which completely disagree with.

Will TRY to find time over next few days, though being on road, from city to city in TX, trying to spend time w/ family, keep up the blog proper and prepare to do a week of Malloy Shows next week has me burning all candles at all ends at the moment.

But I did want to jump in long enough to send the love back to Lasagna, which I meant, but failed to in my previous note. So that part, at least, I have now accomplished.

We'll see what I'll be able to catch up with hereafter...

Thanks for trying, David! Happy holidays to you and yours.

David Lasagna, Agent 99, Brad, Ernie, Soul Rebel, Big Dan...

I LOVE the give and take here...It proves a point I've been saying for years. Progressives/Liberals don't walk lock step to a party line....That's a beautiful thing.

When we disagree it's done with solid info...we agree that the info is solid, but we may disagree on what that info means.

Stumbling onto Bradblog may be one the most fortuitous events for me this year...I smell real fundamental change in the air...like a kid smells cotton candy at a distant fair...we getting there as long as we stay on the road we're traveling.

Brad and Ernie your reporting and articles are spot on...Agent 99 you're truly a next level thinker...Soul Rebel, Big Dan, David Lasagna and many other commenters here are well informed and passionate in their commentary.

Everyone have a Happy Solstice, Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka, Happy Kwanzaa...Felice Navidad...and may the new year bring peace and plenty...

May the force of truth be with humanity...

David Lasagna said:

Okay, maybe, but why stop there? Rahm Emmanuel, Barack Obama, Larry Summers, Tim Geithner, Hillary Clinton, etc., and the MSM who "report" on them all are likewise in their own bubble chamber and by their actions also seem impervious to facts or reason. And so far they've been responsible for a helluva lot more death and destruction than these current teabaggers.
____________________

I believe you have to make a distinction between an uninformed, "blinded-by-the-right" follower and these fully informed "leaders," irrespective of whether those leaders are in positions of power or in the media.

Obama, Summers, Geithner, Clinton are all well aware of the truth behind the progressive agenda, but they choose not to apply that agenda precisely because they have chosen to become instruments for the Wall Street, military-industrial complex and corporate Empire agenda. And all of them are quite comfortable monetarily for it.

You also have to distinguish Tea Baggers from hard-right media pundits, like Limbaugh, O'Reilly & Beck. The Tea Bag followers actually "believe" the BS the hard-right echo chambers feeds them, just as the Nazi brown shirts "believed" the crap Hitler fed them, but make no mistake, Limbaugh, O'Reilly & Beck know full well that they are spinning lies. In fact, O'Reilly once told Barbara Walters that what he does is performance and not his true self.

Their methodology --- simplistic talking points, repeated over and over again --- did not originate with Fox News.

"All effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to understand...Propaganda [must] be continuous and unvarying in its message. It should never admit a glimmer of doubt in its own claims, or concede the tiniest element of right in the claims of the other side." --- Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf.

I am not at all surprised by 99's description of the Tea Baggers as ordinary citizens frightened by the collapse of their economic underpinnings; easily swayed by right-wing demagogues who conflate the source of their plight with a threat from the Left.

As Richard J. Evans reveals in The Coming of the Third Reich, the Nazis gained traction only when Germany sank into the depths of the Great Depression. By 1932, the "unemployed and their dependents made up about a fifth of the entire population of Germany, nearly thirteen million people, all told."

The Weimar Republic was under siege from both the extreme Left and extreme Right. "Communists frightened the middle class not merely because they made politically explicit the social threat posed by the unemployed in the streets, but also because they grew rapidly in numbers..."

Limbaugh and company are playing off the same fears that the Nazis exploited --- and the incidents of Tea Baggers shouting down anyone who would try to deliver a cogent message at a Town Hall meeting; the email messages bearing expletives and death threats against the Velvet Revolution, reflect that the right-wing echo chamber is producing results that are strikingly similar to what Germany experienced in the early 1930s before Hitler's ascension to power.

Now 99 appears to have greater access to Tea Baggers in her local community than I have had in mine. I suspect she's right, to a degree. If there's a way she, and others with significant access, can pierce the disinformation bubble and convince them that peaceful progressives are not their enemy, I'm all for it. If she, and others, can convince the Tea Bagger of today to become the progressive of tomorrow, we should all rejoice.

And with that, as the blog's resident atheist, I will join you in wishing everyone a Merry Christmas, Happy Hanuka, or whatever holiday you deem appropriate at this time of the year.

If you want to solve the problem of too much company influece over legislation go here http://www.democratz.org

To demand congress enact a strong single payer public option go here http://publicoption.democratz.org

To demand congress fix the medicare prescription drug benefit go here http://drugbenefit.democratz.org

We need to boycott some major companies that give money to conservatives. Send this to many people by email.

Hey, wait! I'm the Resident Atheist here! Did Brad promote you? That S.O.B. better triple my salary again or he's gonna be sorry!

And I only like this holiday business insofar as one can stay out of the capitalist part of it and just celebrate love for living things right here inside the ribcage... that's what I do with holidays... and I hope it's happening for you guys too.

xoxoxox

Hey 99, three times zero is still zero. Ernie

Yes, but it's so much more impressively zero!

Thanks Brad and Ernie for providing this discourse. I wish i had time to read it all now, as usual the debate on this site is great. but i have to go off to my slave wage job the day before xmas so i can put food on my family.

Just one brief point i wanted to insert;
the evidence that 9/11 was an "inside job" is abundant. Documented eyewitness testimony proves the pentagon crash site was staged (google Citizens Investigation Team). It's clear the 3 skyscrapers were brought down by more than planes & fire (google ae911truth). Norman Mineta testified before the 9/11 commission as to Cheney's incredibly suspicious behavior in the bunker. It's almost painfully obvious to the point of 'emperor wears no clothes' that Richard B Cheney was involved in the operation. When presented with the evidence even teabaggers should be able to see this. Let's harness their anger. We don't need to all agree about what happened on 9/11, we only need to agree on a massive scale that Richard B Cheney was involved and therefore needs to be thoroughly investigated.

But we can't stop there, we must insist that the investigation also hold to account the accomplices after the fact in the media who indeed conspired to conceal the truth from the public.

When the dominoes fall, the answer to the question "who shall be in charge?, who shall administer elections?," must always be the public, through open source (100% transparent) government.

Thanks again,
peace & love to all,
njt

No. The PDA would not outnumber the plain ol Ds: it would in no way control them.
There already exist perfectly good liberal third parties that are not in the hands of the oligopoly: Greens, 3 different Socialists. Stop crying about how it can't be done and mobilize behind one of them.

Sorry, Nom, but you missed the entire point of the article. Indeed, your post reflects precisely an instance of the American Left's inability to count.

The unassailable fact is that the vast majority of progressives are registered, rank-and-file Democrats. They routinely vote Democratic, even when they have been deceived by a corporatist masquerading as a progressive --- which is quite often.

The tired Third Party strategy is not merely an exercise in futility, but amounts to an abandonment of rank-and-file Democratic progressives to the corporatists.

So long as corporate America remains in control of the Democratic Party, it remains in a position to present the "illusion of choice" between corporate Republicans and corporate Democrats.

Your "stop crying about how it can't be done" is a childish response to a serious effort to unite what to date has been a splintered Left. It also reflects an unhealthy rigidity when what is needed is both dialogue and flexibility --- a willingness of progressives both inside and outside of the Democratic Party to discard those diverse and ineffective strategies that only serve to reinforce the status quo.