Sorry I was late opening the thread! Just got back home. Traffic worse than I'd hoped. Gwen Ifil sits in lonely silence on C-SPAN coverage. Just finished her "Leher-like" pre-scolding of the audience...

"Cheney feels more comfortable sitting down" sez Fox. Thus "Bush campaign has worked harder than anything else for the concession to have them sitting". Loss for Kerry, sez me, not forcing Darth (uh, Dick) to stand!

Both making notes before debate. What the hell? What are they writing? What's the delay in starting?? Weird.

Still split-screen on C-Span...watching that for the moment...

Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11" (sounds like he just wrote my next video ad!

Cheney: "...You probably weren't there to vote for that." Meeow.

Edwards is getting many of the facts wrong, from the costs, to the percentage of troop deaths.

He's CONSTANTLY interrupting Cheny to get the last word in, sometimes off subject. As of now, Cheny's winning.

This is a nice debate so far.

Kinda dull...but could heat up.

I guess we'll have to bicker about the facts later! Funny enough, I was thinking that *Cheney* was getting the facts wrong

Draw so far...This one may be decided in the after-spin fact-check!

I like the jabs back and forth. I'm sure both will spin a little. FactCheck.org for one, will set us straight when its over

CBSnews.com's People Meter (200 "Undecideds") goes over 2.0 for first time (that I've noticed) during Halliburton charge.

CBSnews.com's People Meter (200 "Undecideds") goes over 2.0 for first time (that I've noticed) during Halliburton charge.

I don't know if Cheney misspoke now...he mentioned FactCheck.com (jammed now, called "the leading education site on the net") but I'm thinking he meant .ORG...I guess Cheney thinks like me :doze:

Yes. Should be .org (dozing as well

Halliburton is one of three companies in the world that can perform the job they do. The other two companies are foreign companies.

Keeping jobs in the USA = Good

I can go into more detail about Halliburton later and how the money Cheney received was *EARNED* before he became VP.

Gotta love the competition factor going on here...

Alpha-dog Off for sure.

Yes, we'll bicker about Halliburton later. Suffice to say, most of their jobs (running cafeterias, doing laundry, rebuilding oil infrastructure) can not only be done by others, but is already largely jobbed out *by* Halliburton.

Fire 'em! Open bidding to the Allies...and they'll be back in the game over night w/ all those Billions of $ worth of contracts!

Cheney: "He's using old data...From 2003"?!

That's old?!

HUGE response for Edwards: "Tax cuts for Health Care and College, etc." on the CBSNews.com "Undecideds" Meter. Over 3 for first time I've seen!

Don't know who these Undecideds are and if they're really undecideds, since I think it's mostly a draw as of :55.

But the People Meter has been topping 2 and 3 for Edwards and 0 and 1 for Cheney througout (in general). FWIW. If anything.

Who "wins" if this thing ends a "draw" in your opinion?

The data was regarding Jobs, which have gone up according to bls.gov and dol.gov over the last 12 months. So that drastically changes the stats...

This is a nice civil chat between the two of us...even if we may disagree. Makes my day, thanks Brad!

According to msnbc edward wins if its a draw.

Its the whole style vs substance debate.

Personally, I think Cheney wins on substance.

I feel that its a draw on style, which is bad for Edwards, since Cheney is so hidden. But both of them look pretty good. I just happen to agree with Cheney haha

What basis, Ozone? (Glad you made it by, Troll...much quieter today then for the Prez Debate

I wouldn't look too far into the people meter. Interesting, but a 200 person sample isn't anything, especially without showing a breakdown of anything else (although they might show that later)

The Empire Strikes Back!
Cheney tops 2 on Medical Tort Reform stuff (on Undecideds Meter)

Pundits on news channels made Cheney a winner before debate, also they said cheney will have Edward for breakfast, I think edward is standing up to Cheney well, also holding his ground. Very comfortable and easy, good explainations. I am really slow on computer excuse me.

(Doing great, Ozone! Thanks for the input!)

Troll, people meter of *very* limited value. But with debate so "even" as of now, essentially, it's interesting to learn where Undecideds *might* be inclining (again, if we can assume their sample are really undecides).

Good answer for Cheney re: Taking over as President if need be.

Edwards has gotten better throughout the debate. However I feel he was nervous from the start. Cheney, as usual is calm and collected with his patented style. How the undecided voters and the leaners view the debate however could be quite different.

How can Edwards say that Kerry has been consistent on Iraq?

The voting for the 87 billion before he voted against it isn't the flip flop. The flip flop was when he was on TV saying that "No US Senator in their right mind would abandon our troops" when he was asked if his detail to the bill was rejected if he would still vote for it.

Brad, it might sound odd, but tonight and over the last few days, I've gained a great deal of respect for you. Perhaps I'm getting wiser with age...or perhaps I just pulled my head out of my ass and instead of being so confrontational, I'm trying to be more understanding...who would have figured!

I'd suggest it's the "filter" you've been seeing me through (via our mutual "friend") - Either way, I'm glad you bothered to look beyond that filter.

I wish more Americans would. That's been a mission I've been trying (perhaps not successfully, but *trying*) to work on for some time. This country needs it. In a BIG way right about now.

Thanks for your thoughts and participation here, Troll. Hope it'll continue and that we'll find the common ground that I believe most honest (and unspun) Americans really have with each other.

Just speaking to my fiancee over IM about the debate, she gave me a few insights as to how someone not as partisan feels about the debate.

She agrees with Edwards on many things, said he is a great speaker, but so is Cheney. She was however turned off by Edwards' senate attendance. She feels he has a strong presence and said if he was running for President she might consider him.

Her main reason for voting for Bush however is her stance on abortions, and that her brother is in the Marines.

I thought it was a nice viewpoint on it, one that an undecided one might have.

We can agree on one thing Brad - the hope for the future of America. We just might differ slighly on how we need to get to that future.

(I'd share my girlfriends thoughts...but she seems to have nodded off --- can hardly blamer her.)

Moving to new POST V.P. Debate Open Thread! Click here to come on over!