It’s a lovely change of pace when some of the other “big boy bloggers” beat me to the punch on Election Integrity-related stories. Perhaps I can start sleeping in for a while. I could use it.
That said, TPMMuckraker gives us a fine update on the FL-13 sitch, and Sean Hannity’s virtuoso performance in what is likely his most disingenuous performance to date last night on Hannity & Colmes, where Republican Vern Buchanan spouted off with neither a Democratic nor a non-partisan Election Integrity advocate to counter his nonsense.
In addition to TPMM’s points, it should also be pointed out that Hannity stated incorrectly — twice — that Sarasota is the strongest Republican stronghold in the contest. That, despite, his later admission that the Democratic Christine Jennings won the area by 7%.
As well, Hannity (again unchecked) is allowed to rant about how Republicans don’t challenge elections when they lose, they accept defeat gracefully. Guess Sean doesn’t read The BRAD BLOG and thus doesn’t know about the Conservative TX Supreme Court Justice Steven Smith, or the mess in Maricopa County, AZ, still percolating from back in 2004, or the fact that Rick Santorum and the PA Republican party demanded that touch-screen systems where votes reportedly flipped be impounded in 27 counties on Election Day, just to name a few instances.
But we’d expect nothing less from water boy Hannity.
Most of note in the video, perhaps, is Buchanan’s un-checked (and by now, expected) outrageous claim that Jennings is “destroying democracy” by calling for a revote. A funny turn of phrase from a guy who is doing everything he can to ensure that the rather clear voices of the voters are ignored in favor of a 369 vote “victory” gained only due to faulty, paperless touch-screen voting machines.
Even Buchanan is unable, in the clip, to explain why 18,000 votes in Jennings’s strongest county simply disappeared. Of course, he’d have to admit he lost if forced to come up with an answer to that mystery. So he avoids the question twice by explaining only that “there’s a lot of speculation out there you can read.”
Got nothing, Vern? But don’t give a damn anyway? We thought so. Now that’s what we call “destroying democracy”!
In other FL-13 coverage around the ‘sphere, both the Sarasota Herald-Tribune and a group of political scientists [PDF] are averring that it was bad ballot design which caused the problem (The BRAD BLOG earlier posted a photo of the way in which the race was displayed on the touch-screen systems, such that it would have been very easy for voters not to see the race at all on Sarasota’s ES&S touch-screen machines.)
The “bad ballot design” explanation, however — that voters didn’t notice the race — fails to account for all of the affidavits from voters claiming they tried and tried to vote in the race, but couldn’t get their vote to register properly for Jennings, as one of the attorneys representing the voter lawsuit calling for a revote recently told us.
Finally, DailyKos (of all places) has some decent front page coverage of the rather conservative (we’ve found) Election Law professor Rick Hasen’s explanation [PDF] of the Constitutional card that can be played by the U.S. House to settle the matter. At this point, it’s looking more and more like that will be the way this thing is ultimately settled…
Jennings has until December 20th to file a challenge in the House, which has the Constitutional right to be the “Judge of the Elections, Returns and Qualifications of its own Members,” and can either choose to seat Jennings or choose to leave the seat vacant, which would then force a Special Election in Sarasota and a re-run of the election.
We’ve been loath to discuss or push that option ourselves, seeing as how it was abused by House Republicans during last Summer’s Busby/Bilbray race in San Diego’s CA-50 special election. In that case, Republicans charged (so far successfully, though the case is under appeal) that neither California courts nor voters had the right to contest the election since the House had already seated the Republican Bilbray and the Democrat Busby had failed to file a challenge under the House’s rules.
Problem was in that case, however, that the House had sworn in Bilbray just 7 days after the election and more than two weeks before it would be certified by the state of California, after which challengers have a period of 5 days to file a contest if they wish.
The (purposely) rushed swearing-in of Bilbray, before thousands and thousands of votes were even counted, left both the candidate and voters in the state without an opportunity to follow state procedures first before invoking the congressional option. The judge bought it, and tossed out the challenge.
In Florida, however, the case is moving along in state court (for the moment) and should be allowed to do so before pulling out the bigger guns. That said, and with the state’s own team of auditors now saying that it may be two months before they can complete their testing of what may have gone wrong — bringing their final report in a full month after Buchanan would be sworn in — it may well be time for Jennings to start considering such an option.
If she does, the Congress would be delinquent if they didn’t either seat her instead of Buchanan or declare the seat vacant, at the very least, and force that much-needed “do-over” down in Sarasota.
Sleep well, my liege…..you deserve it, and more.. 🙂
When true democracy is once again re-instated in your country, I KNOW that you will be up there with all the others responsible for turning the tide through your determined doggedness to right a broken system.
BRAD RULES….!!
“A day without Bradblog, is like a day without sunshine”
Just a small correction: the authors of the report you refer to in the paragraph after the picture of Vern Buchanan above are political scientists, not computer scientists.
{ED NOTE: Whoops. Thank you, David. I’ll correct that immediately. You computer scientists are a sensitive lot, eh? 😉 — BF}
Hmm… I guess Hannity is right. All Democrats should be looking at Republican Dino Rossi’s stellar example of how to accept defeat “gracefully”. Perhaps then he’d respect them more?
Mar
Come clean now, are you Brad’s mother? 😛
hmm Brad, I think you wasted time on this article. I guess you just didn’t do any research before writing it. Wanna know why there are so many undervotes in the 13th district…
Well, 1st, Jennings was not backed by her opponent Jan Schneider, so many of her supporters did not vote in this election. Also, Tramm Hudson, Vern Buchanan’s biggest oppenent did not support him, thus making many of his supporters part of the undervote problem.
But the most important lesson to take away from all of this is to understand that undervotes happen all the time and not just in the 13th district of florida, but everywhere…
1)In the 13th district in Nov 7 2000 elections between Republican Dan Miller and Democrat Daniel E. Dunn, there was a 25,335 undervote!
2) In 2004 between Catherine Harris and Jan Schneider, there was a 12,297 undervote.
So I have one conclusion for you, before you waste your time on some op ed piece, try to back up your arguments with some facts of some sort.
SEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE YAAAAAAAAAAAAA
John, #5, you might sound less idiotic if you backed up to some elections that were not rigged… or at least less famously rigged. As it is, you have only managed to confirm yourself as a nasty little dolt. Maybe if you study, you can sound like an informed grown up? Just a thought.
I met one of Sean Hannity’s high school teachers a while ago. She said he used to make up facts back then, too. Smug little prick. Why anyone would pay attention to the likes of him is beyond me.
Regarding John #5 –
Talking about backing up with facts. Other counties in the district had significantly less undervote than Sarasota county in this race. Desoto 2%, Hardee 5%, and Manatee 6%. Sarasota County is claiming an 13% percent undervote. For you to claim that neither Schneider nor Hudson supported their opponents, thus the numbers, does not explain the COLD HARD FACTS that there was an incredible disparity IN THE DISTRICT.
You can find all of this information at the Florida Department of State Elections.
Here’s the url in case you get lost finding your way.
http://election.dos.state.fl.us...ive/enight.asp
It will require you to know a little about mathemathics, but surely a man so “in the know” about these things should have no problem figuring it out. I think I can rest easily in the fact that the FDoSE website is not biased towards any particular party. Perhaps after you’ve analyzed the empirical evidence, like an true American patriot SHOULD, you can come back here and explain things again.
Oh, and before you use Charlotte County as part of your “fact finding mission” – that county is split, and therefore impossible to track. Though, I daresay that no more than 6% of those voters did not vote in that race either.
It is people like you who show who the real patriots are. I voted for Buchannan, but I’ll be damned if I sit back and watch 18,000 voters have their voices disenfranchised. This is about Democracy. It is about maintaining order throughout ALL elections. Quite simply, it is about OUR voices. It is about the PEOPLE of the UNITED STATES of AMERICA. Touch screen voting without a paper trail is a BAD idea – and this proves it.
Major kudo’s to Don’s post. Election reform is not just a Democratic or Republican or Independent issue. It’s a democracy issue. You’ll find the loudest argument against election reform, usually comes from those with the most to lose from honesty. Frankly
Regarding the almighty Donathon!
Here is what Don says;
“Talking about backing up with facts. Other counties in the district had significantly less undervote than Sarasota county in this race. Desoto 2%, Hardee 5%, and Manatee 6%. Sarasota County is claiming an 13% percent undervote. For you to claim that neither Schneider nor Hudson supported their opponents, thus the numbers, does not explain the COLD HARD FACTS that there was an incredible disparity IN THE DISTRICT.”
The truth: Don, don’t think the numbers add up right? Well think about this Don. Where are both Tramm Hudson and Jan Schneider from? Oh yea, SARASOTA county. Did they endorse either of their opponents? NO. Which shows why there is such a significant increase in undervotes in SARASOTA county and not the outlying counties. So maybe I don’t have the “mathematics” skills as apparently YOU talk about, but at least I have some logic and reasoning.
In regards to Agent99’s post;
“John, #5, you might sound less idiotic if you backed up to some elections that were not rigged… or at least less famously rigged. As it is, you have only managed to confirm yourself as a nasty little dolt. Maybe if you study, you can sound like an informed grown up? Just a thought.”
The truth: haha”¦ WOW. That’s all I have to say about such a useless statement.
SEEEE YAAAAAAAAAAA
Howard Dean calls for new election in FL-13
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/2006...orida_election
John: do you think e-vote machines are secure and accurate, and cannot be hacked?
What are the odds, of Catherine Harris’s FL-13 being off the most of any district I have heard across the United States??? John, sounds like you’re in the “just a huge coincidence” crowd…
Name another district across the entire United States that had a larger % of undervotes in the entire 2006 election, please. And…IT HAPPENS TO BE CATHERINE HARRIS’S OLD DISTRICT!!! WOW!!! Incredible coincidence!!! Lottery-level odds of that happening!
TruthIsAll: Lay the stats of that one on us, please!!!
How about the EDA report, too?
Hannity may drop the FL-13 misinformation today. Today’s rightwing talking point orders are “surrender”, about the Hamilton/Baker panel. Hannity may be given temporary orders today, from Murdoch or whoever’s controlling them, to temporarily push the word “surrender” and “Hamilton/Baker” panel, and pick back up with FL-13 propoganda and misinformation later in the week. Limbaugh already said the word “surrender” 100 times today. I am drunk, because I’m playing the “surrender” shot-drinking game today on rightwing media.
So John #10, your retort is to repeat the same idiocy about Hudson and Schneider and then call yourself logical and reasonable? It is statistically impossible to have the spread in this district that we are witnessing. I don’t know what logic you’re using, but reality has its own rules that does not abide by talking points – regardless of who is actually making them.
Once again – this effects all voters in EVERY state. The fact you care nothing about that just shows what type of American you really are – one that hates us.
For all of you!
The total vote count for both tramm hudson and jan schneider in the 2006 primary was 17,217. Now factor in that there is an average of 2% undervotes in every election. I believe 247,000 people voted, which would come out to 4,940. In theory, this would be a total of 22,157 undervotes. Now, you’ll probably say, I don’t believe that all 17,217 people would undervote, however, a good percentage of them could have been a good chunk of the undervotes.
Secondly, anybody who actually lives in the Sarasota district knows how dirty the primary was between Tramm Hudson and Vern Buchanan. Also, many of the negative mailers were only being sent in the Sarasota area because it was the only district totally up for grabs. Now if you put all of these factors together, you should be able to see why there was such a huge undervote in the Sarasota district.
Lastly, in terms of Don’s comment of “one that hates us.” This is just a careless statement. I want everybody’s vote and voice to be heard in American democracy. That is what makes America so great. However, I am sick and tired of “Washington politics.” Whether you’re a Republican, Democrat, or Independent, if you lose a race, you should concede. What are we teaching our kids here, if you lose, you should sue? In the 13th district, the votes have been counted and recounted and all of the machines have been found error-free. Let’s try to put politics aside for once, and do what is best for the people and let our representative go to work in Washington.
Big DAN: I’m not sure about e-voting machines, I guess they could be hacked, but I also believe that paper ballots can be messed with as well. However, quit your worrying, the people of Sarasota voted and they want paper ballots for the next election. So no more wining in two years!
By the way, there is a rumor out there… Do you guys follow NCAA football? Well, I hear that since Michigan lost the bid for the national championship game to Florida, that they are blaming the computer system and they are demanding an audit and revote. Haha. Keep the peace.
John said (most recently in #17):
…Well, no. The votes themselves were never actually counted. They can’t be. There is no way to “count” electronically cast votes. Further, of course, it serves to reason that such votes can’t be “recounted” either. The results of the machines, however, can be re-printed, but as anyone who wasn’t being disingenuous would admit, the fact that the numbers in the re-print would be the same as the original numbers is/was a given.
The language in use here, “the votes were counted, and then recounted” is vaguely familiar (Bush 2000) for those of us paying attention.
Beyond that, Don did a fine job of debunking John’s original nonsense, but I’ll add just another point to his original comments:
Your comparisons to numbers from NON mid-term elections (and I didn’t check your numbers, but will kindly stipulate you have them accurately) and your misspelling of Katherine Harris’ name (which I wouldn’t usually point out, but for the unfortunately obnoxious tone of your post) not withstanding, I’ll look forward to your explanation of the 2.6% undervote rate in the same county, in the same race, on the Absentee Ballots.
And I have one conclusion for you. This isn’t Free Republic. Your ability to discuss/debate/argue like a grown-up will be far more welcome here. Even with your obvious anti-American, democracy hating agenda.
That’s funny, Hannity said Kerry was whining about fraud in the 2004 “election”. I just don’t remember that!
Hey, John, how do you explain this:
“””And guess what? It gets even weirder “” it gets downright Bush vs. Kerry, 2004 revisited, as (prepare to be shocked) most of the precincts where the undervotes occurred in droves, like Sarasota County’s Precinct 31, with 22 percent, are solidly Democratic and, indeed, largely African-American.”””
John, we see your “explanation” for THIS year’s undervotes in FL-13…so explain the SAME THING happened in the 2004 Kerry-Bush election…so how did THAT happen??? You explain above, some sort of reason for a high undervote in Sarasota THIS YEAR in FL-13 (no OTHER districts…interestingly)…
…so, how do you explain the 2004 Kerry-Bush undervote…AND…the abnormal high rate of undervotes ONLY IN DEMOCRAT DISTRICTS…as I extracted from the quote above, from Robert Kohler’s article???
Keep explaining…..
http://commonwonders.com/archives/col374.htm
And also, John? Please I would like your explanation on how close to 100% of anomolies on e-vote machines favor Republicans…please explain that…
I’m not trying to be a wise guy, just please answer these questions, John…
And btw? Michigan football? I don’t watch college football because its a FARCE…because they VOTE(?) on the champion, instead of having a playoff????? Ridiculous!!!
I’m a Penn St. fan, naturally, I’m from Pa. Penn State went undefeated and Texas had one loss one year, and Nixon chimed in to make Texas #1 with 1 loss vs. Penn St. zero losses. Thus begins my hatred of Republicans (lol). The next year Penn St. beat Texas 30-0. That Penn St. team had Franco Harris and Lydell Mitchell and Charlie Pittman at running backs!!! Has any team in college history been that loaded at RB? On defense, Jack Ham and Mike Reid, among others. Since that voting nonsense happened to Penn St. more than once, I think college football is a farce, because they VOTE for the champion…where else do they do that?
The best RB in pro football right now? Larry Johnson (Kansas City Chiefs) from Penn St.
http://blogs.mcall.com/nittany_...eams_of_t.html
OK, you got me to digress into college football. I don’t watch it anymore, though. No playoff, no watch. Vote for the winner! Like figure skating!
99 # 4
Sorry, nice try though…. 🙁
But if Harvey is half as cute as his son, then Mrs Harvey is indeed a lady blessed……twice.. 🙂
Well big dan, at least we agree on one thing… ncaa football should have a playoff system! haha.
To the rest of you, obviously there is no way to win an argument, but best of luck at supporting poor sports like christine jennings. You never know, if you cry hard enough, maybe somebody will notice. I guess crying works, b/c it attracted me to this website.
godspeed,
John
ps, thanks Brad for the grammer lesson,you’re the bestest! 😉