READER COMMENTS ON
"Chris Floyd: 'Belief and Betrayal: The New Jahiliyyah'"
(24 Responses so far...)
COMMENT #1 [Permalink]
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Jeff J.
said on 7/28/2006 @ 8:29 am PT...
Great and insightful article, Chris.
I've often thought about the fact that religions have been the core source of most of the war and bloodshed throughout human history. And how ironic, as you so eloquenty point out, that at the very source of each and every scripture there was a great Master who professed peace, tolerance and charity.
I've never trusted a bible thumper, or fundamentalist of any creed. Somehow in their twisted logic, love has turned to hate, tolerance to obsession, and charity to murder.
In spite of the fact that all the scriptures have been retranslated so many times (for the high priests' own purposes), it's amazing that a sincere eye can still pick up some awesome messages from their original source.
No wonder our founding fathers were very clear about the separation of church and state in their writing of our Constitution and Bill of Rights.
COMMENT #2 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 7/28/2006 @ 8:30 am PT...
AMen! I fully agree with this. I like what George Carlin says: Religion is the biggest bullshit story of all time. There's an invisible man floating up in the sky...all seeing...all knowing...all powerfull...
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BUT HE NEEDS MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Sorry, but believing in God, and believing in man-made religion are 2 different things...
COMMENT #3 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 7/28/2006 @ 8:36 am PT...
...my own views...if there's 99,000 religions, aren't 98,999 wrong at best? This implies that at LEAST 99.99% of religions were MADE UP by men. I personally believe the remaining one was made up too. I just think they made up all this stuff, simple as that...they just made it up!!! There's no proof of ANYTHING! (I'm using 99,000, I don't know exactly how many religions there are, but it's ludicrous)...Also, the same people who made this up, also believed the earth was flat (at the time)...so we believe this other stuff???
COMMENT #4 [Permalink]
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Arry
said on 7/28/2006 @ 9:49 am PT...
And the bug in the system that allows it to happen: hypocrisy.
COMMENT #5 [Permalink]
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Arry
said on 7/28/2006 @ 9:54 am PT...
I mean the blindness and "time of ignorance", the triumph of hypocrisy, not basic religious principles, of course.
COMMENT #6 [Permalink]
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Charlene
said on 7/28/2006 @ 10:16 am PT...
Yes!
This has been a pet peeve of mine, as I've stated before here.
But the more salient point of the matter is overlooked:
It takes thousands & thousands of WILLING SUPPORTERS of the "powerful elites" to bring about these misguided plans.
When the "elites..twist & pervert the original principles to augment their own..wealth..", it takes followers who support them with their money, man power, & tacit approval to pull these atrocities off.
So where, in the end, does the greater fault lie for all the suffering brought about by all these religiously inspired atrocities?
It's with the followers that do what they're told & continue giving money, man power & tacit approval even when they know better, or they continue because they, let's say, don't use critical thinking skills.
Each individual's responsibility to recognize & reject injustice in all it's forms is the basic reason history is so replete with persecutions & suffering---all through the ages.
COMMENT #7 [Permalink]
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Peg C
said on 7/28/2006 @ 10:31 am PT...
FINE piece, Chris! Thank you for sharing it here. I wrote a similar, though more compact, musing on my own erstwhile blog almost two years ago. With the ongoing carnage in the Middle East, it's so imperative that this matter of ideologies and fanatic idealogues be visited BY ALL with clear-eyed dispassion. But egos do get in the way, don't they? And craven, short-sighted self-interest?
Come back often! This here is a good crowd!!
COMMENT #8 [Permalink]
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ubetchaiam
said on 7/28/2006 @ 10:33 am PT...
Good to see that others are aware of Karen Armstrong's writing's; for a more focused 'look' at the religions of Abraham, see Armstrong's 'A History of God'.
COMMENT #9 [Permalink]
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whig
said on 7/28/2006 @ 10:45 am PT...
This may seem an irrelevancy to some, but I believe it is crucial. Cannabis needs to be made legal and respected as a tool of introspection and religious awareness. There is historical evidence that it was part and parcel of the origins of all the Abrahamic religions and many others, but in every age has been seen as a tool to be kept in the control of the high priests and away from the mass of people who might otherwise see that the priests were unnecessary, that no intermediary exists between man and God.
More to the point of making the world a better place, cannabis promotes inner peace and non-violence: you do not see people smoking pot and beating their spouses, unlike alcohol. That the truth has been withheld from people and the means of their discovering it, has given the political and priestly classes the power to control the minds of the people and to turn them into killers, against the very first commandment: Thou Shalt Not Kill.
Dismiss what I am saying if you like, but I hope some will consider it.
COMMENT #10 [Permalink]
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Robert Sawdey
said on 7/28/2006 @ 11:38 am PT...
You definately get an 'AMEN' from me on the Cannabis issue Whig. It's repression definately contributes to the violence in the world, especially in the Middle East.
In general response to the thread topic, Religous Extremists of any flavor are scary in ANY country.
COMMENT #11 [Permalink]
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Dredd
said on 7/28/2006 @ 12:32 pm PT...
In the US many of the groups in "churchianity" are the source of fascist thinking.
Follow the leader without question, god is on our side, we are the true believers, those not of us are evil, and other anti-democratic mindlessness carries the day in that realm.
Chris, I liked the quote from Dylan. Here is another:
So now as I'm leavin'
I'm weary as Hell
The confusion I'm feelin'
Ain't no tongue can tell
The words fill my head
And fall to the floor
If God's on our side
He'll stop the next war.
(With God On Our Side, Bob Dylan).
COMMENT #12 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 7/28/2006 @ 12:45 pm PT...
Dredd: Studies show that conservatives are "followers"...not independent thinkers. I don't go to church anymore, because one day, I just looked around in church, and it struck me that it was actually scarey and creepy, a couple hundred people chanting, "god is great", "we are not worthy", stand up, sit down, kneel, OOPS! didnt' say "simon says"...you're out!!! etc... And I said to myself, "You know what? This is a bunch of horseshit!!! It's ridiculous, actually embarrassing."
COMMENT #13 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 7/28/2006 @ 12:47 pm PT...
...passing a basket for $$$...
COMMENT #14 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 7/28/2006 @ 1:15 pm PT...
How about the correlation between the way religious people trick people into killing on behalf of religion, and the way governments trick people into killing on behalf of (false) "patriotism"? It's the same exact thing!
Also, I think religion should now be taxed, since they are now infringing on government ala the Republicans. They don't pay tax because of separation of church and state. No separation? THEN THEY SHOULD PAY TAXES!!!!!!!! They're having their cake and eating it too. There should be a civil lawsuit against religions not paying taxes, but encroaching into government, like what Bobby Kennedy is doing with his civil lawsuit.
COMMENT #15 [Permalink]
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molly
said on 7/28/2006 @ 1:24 pm PT...
Was looking at Maine PBS..piece on one of the founders of the state. Man by the name of Waldo..had all sorts of businesses and gave people work. Wanted to put in a church for "social control." Mainers didn't allow it. Now, I'm from the Appalachian mountains of N.C. There was a little Church in all the "hollers." They were everywhere. It's a big reason they are so poor. women obey their husbands. ..work public jobs and come home and work on vacations to help their husbands..the farmers. I saw that while the women were at work their husbands hung out with each other and were a happy go lucky group in my "holler". Definately not an equal work situation. I think a lot of the Bible was written by the equivalent of repubs. back in the day. Lazy mothers.
COMMENT #16 [Permalink]
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Agent99
said on 7/28/2006 @ 2:38 pm PT...
Beautiful piece, Chris! Thank you.
COMMENT #17 [Permalink]
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MEP
said on 7/28/2006 @ 3:15 pm PT...
Enjoyed your article. Most people are afraid to comment negatively about the past, current and future dangers that zealots pose to humanity. If the human race is to survive, we must recognize that religions have been used since the beginning of time to control the masses. Religions have always had a political agenda. I recently read "The End of Faith" by Sam Harris. Great read. Sadly I keep looking for a news story heralding the scheduled public stoning of Mr. Harris. Keep up your good work. There are a few of us that are not afraid to challenge the Zealots of all flavors.
COMMENT #18 [Permalink]
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Laura
said on 7/28/2006 @ 6:04 pm PT...
Chris, Its good to see you post here. I visit your site often. The whole time I was reading your piece I kept thinking Money Changers. The men Jesus threw out of his fathers temple. Seems appropriate to me. Men seeking power over the weaker parts of society for their own evil greed not only in their daily lives, but in a church where people are most vulnerable. That about sums up our elitist rulers. I also agree with alot of the comments, Good thread ya got going here.
COMMENT #19 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 7/28/2006 @ 8:32 pm PT...
Like I said, the bible was written by people who thought the world was flat. It's ridiculous. 2,000 years ago, imagine how backwards they were. This is where they come in and say, "Well, you need faith...we can't prove any of it." Sound like the used car e-vote machine salesmen? Sound familiar? "Just trust us...just have faith." Beware of people who say "trust us" and "we can't prove anything, just have faith." Also, beware of people who wrap themselves in the flag (Sean Hannity; used car salesman).
COMMENT #20 [Permalink]
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GWN
said on 7/28/2006 @ 8:42 pm PT...
#12 ... big dan
You brought back memories of my church going days with the "we are not worthy" thing. I so well remember feeling that that was so un-God-like to say we were unworthy...I would say, "I am worthy to receive and you would want me too" really loud. Much like you I said this is so stupid. Follow the leader...the priest who probably molested the alter boy before he came on "stage". Anyway it's been a long awakening. Like learning there really was no Santa after all. Talk about sheeples. In my day we were never allowed to say anything negative about the church. Talk about brainwashed...
I hate Friday nights with nothing to do:-)
COMMENT #21 [Permalink]
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big dan
said on 7/28/2006 @ 8:44 pm PT...
All religions are man-made. Who said we need a "go between" (man/religion), why can't you pray directly to God yourself? That's because the "go between" is where the controlling of people comes in. They use and control people this way, by selling them the rules, etc...they sell it like as if you need to follow man-made rules or you don't go to heaven. Praying directly to God makes them useless, and they don't want that. Who said you need them? Why can't you pray directly to God if you believe in God? The fact that there are thousands of religions, is proof that religions are man-made. Isn't it? When you ask someone from a religion, if you can get to heaven if you are from a different religion, they have all sorts of answers, all different. More proof for me. Because they made it all up. Long ago. Also, they are always changing the rules of religions over the decades and centuries. Why?
COMMENT #22 [Permalink]
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whig
said on 7/28/2006 @ 9:12 pm PT...
Big Dan, I used to be agnostic so I get where you're coming from, and I certainly don't think you need anyone to act as a "go between." Everyone has the same capacity to perceive the world, and though perhaps some do a better job of describing their perceptions than others it is for you and for each of us to find the truth for ourselves. I do not believe any particular religion has a monopoly on truth, all words we can use to describe what we see and hear and feel are necessarily metaphors, this is as much true in describing an orange or a camel or God. If I say that an orange is sweet but slightly sour, you still have no idea how it tastes unless you eat one yourself.
COMMENT #23 [Permalink]
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Larry Bergan
said on 7/30/2006 @ 5:11 am PT...
Bill Moyer's new program on PBS,"On Faith And Reason", should be of great interest to anyone who enjoys this important thread and subject. Jerry Falwell will never appear on the show. He doesn't care to search for meaning in life. It's about power and nothing else. He's not earnest, smart, or at peace with himself. Moyers would destroy him, without even wishing to.
To all those people who are in organized religion because they really believe they're doing the right thing, and try to follow the teachings of Jesus instead of ignoring him, please disregard the following paragraphs. They don't apply to you!
This issue goes right to the heart of what is destroying America, but they're going to blame the free thinkers for the collapse. It won't stick, but it is sure going to make for some serious suffering in the mean time.
Organized religion is mostly about control. The control is taken to such an extreme that it begins before birth and is continued after you die, (if they'll let you). To add insult to injury, it's administered with a freindly demeanor. They just can't understand why people get angry, when they're just trying to help you find the RIGHT (THEIR) path.
I'll pass, thanks!
Now here's my cynical view!
I think religion is a way in which people in power determine who they can control. If they can get you to believe that the world is how they describe it, even if it makes no sense, then they know you're someone they can work with.
That is why our society is falling apart. Nothing makes sense. Bush isn't sly enough to believably articulate the nonsense, so it comes out as a freudian slip, "It's working, we're making elections"
But It's also sadism. Bush loves to pull our legs and arms off to see what we'll do. Bush knows suffering has nothing to do with the pursuit of happiness. That's why he loves it. It's very sad that he has to torture people to feel alive.
With that kind of perception, you'd think I'm a very bitter, unhappy man, but you'd be totally wrong. I love life and It fascinates me endlessly I'm not afraid of death either.
Now, Pass that reefer!
Oh, never mind, I just remembered I live in a "pee-in-a-cup-democracy" now. But that's OK, because, ironically, we have plenty of prisons now that can be used to great effect when we finally go after the REAL crime in this country.
"Get tough on crime" politicians would be best to furiously backpeddle on their present approach to the pursuit of happiness. There might still be time for you, but it looks as if the public hungers for justice! Sometimes lessons come hard, don't they!
Feels like a "hard rain is gonna fall", And this one won't just be in New Orleans!
COMMENT #24 [Permalink]
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Nunyabiz
said on 7/30/2006 @ 9:49 pm PT...
Personally I think religion is the root of most all the worst problems that man inflicts upon himself worldwide.
What religion ultimately teaches is to place "faith" above "Fact" and once someone is capable of flatly denying verifiable evidence right in front of them in favor of faith then that person is totally incapable of rational thought processes.
Classic example of this Meme is Evolution Vs Creationism.
The Creationist has literally been turned into a blathering idiot because of religious indoctrination, a Delusional Psychotic.