Maybe they're planning to create a nuclear winter (just a little one) to stop global warming. /snark

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

YES,.... A pre-emptive discussion,..
before another needless war.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

bushco feeds the fire of Islamic Jihadists,..
a blazing inferno of terrorist
actions will result against us.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Stop this idiot in the White House
and his neo-con warmongers
before they launch cruise missiles
into the city of Tehran.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

The Middle East will explode
into endless warfare.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Some will get filthy rich
Many more will DIE.

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

First Strike Doctrine,... Pre-Emptive War,...

Psychological Analysis,..

of pResident bush's (brain?),..

bush's (brain?) : LINK

YOU GO TWO WARS

WITH THE ARMY YOU HAVE

Rummy explains the "dog paddle" manouver he plans to use on Iran. "It will be over in 90 days and the oil will pay for the whole thing" he said, "trust me".

You nailed it! Wag the dog! We are wise to this. And 9/11 was the excuse to implement PNAC agenda, and half of Bush's cabinet are PNAC members. You wonder where he pulls these nomination name from? The PNAC!

If WAR is not used as a diversion
who then will do the exit polls to try to cover up a stolen election?

In recent years the Ukraine elections caught the news because exit polls were said to be the ultimate tool to determine whether or not an election had been stolen. The US government was evidently involved.

"... the exit polls, which were funded by the United States ..."

Which the cheaters in the Ukraine did not like, and said:

"These polls don't work," said Gennady Korzh, a spokesman for Yanukovych. "We will win by between 3 to 5 percent. And remember, if Americans believed exit polls, and not the actual count, John Kerry would be president" (link here).

I have become puzzled now. I have come across several entities that seem to be involved in exit polls. And specifically involved in the Ukraine exit polls.

I have tried to keep some nexus between the Ukraine election which exit polls showed was originally fraudulent. Then massive demonstrations caused a new election.

It is not clear to me who did the actual exit polls. One story says it was "the U.S. government-funded National Democratic Institute" (see link above).

If so, that entity is a bi-partisan non-profit organization (link here).

Another entity I found (The National Endowment for Democracy) which claims to have been involved in those exit polls appears to be bi-partisan as well, even though Senator Frist is involved:

"During the bitterly contested presidential election that took place in the autumn of 2004, Ukrainian popular vocabulary gained a new phrase courtesy of the efforts of the Democratic Initiatives Foundation: 'exit poll'" (link here).

What I am trying to find out now is did these entities who claim to have been involved or are reported to have been involved in the Ukraine exit polling actually subcontract Edison/Mitofsky to do the actual exit polling and calculations upon that data?

The greatest tool for determining the upcoming election integrity, or lack thereof, may well be exit polls.

I don't think another war will help his numbers, not this time.

He used up the last of his good will when he claimed Iraq was involved with Sept. 11, 2001, and had ties to al Qaeda. Only the koolaid drinkers believe any of that still (and are the 34% and FALLING that are proping him and his straw-man points up). Most people don't trust Shrubby any more, and will be glad to have him removed from the pResidency. The problem is, the Repukes in Congress won't pull him because he's such a friend of big business.

Watched "Enron: The smartest guys in the room" last night. Pretty interesting how right in the middle of the "most important company ever tied so closely to the White House", Sept. 11, 2001 happened and pulled heat off the Bush family "friends" (Ken Lay) over at Enron. Especially when you consider the missing 757 at the Pentagon.

TERRIFIC ad, V.R. and Brad! An Iran misadventure must not happen. It is an ancient, beautiful culture, a repository for a record of human civilization and art, and an innocent populace. This "blood-dimmed tide" MUST BE STOPPED!!!!

I can't believe they're even trying to push the idea of attacking Iran. Hopefully the rubber stamp congress will be worrying about the next elections and shoot down Bushco's plans.
If they do, where the hell are they going to get the troops to do this??

So my theory on this administration is this,
Highly organized, big money trying to make the US a "free market paradise." They use any dishonest tactic at hand.

The neocons in the bunch have a serious chip on their shoulders, and want to foolishly try to preemptively stop all the bad people.

They fooled the idiotic religious right into voting for them with their pathetic values chant.

They haven't a clue or care about people, when a tragic event happens, they see it as an opportunity to let their buddies get rich with no-bid contracts. They don't monitor the progress because they don't care.

Sound good?

War over oil is inevitable.

When even the president, in the state of the union, admits that "America is addicted to oil", we can look to the behavior of addicts for a road map.

CNN had a special (Saturday and Sunday at 5, 8, and 11 PM Pacific Time) "We were warned: The Coming Oil Crisis" which concerned dependency on oil and the ramifications.

One commentor was asked what will the future be like if we do not break the addiction? He replied, "You don't want to go there".

One interesting tidbit was about Brazil having about 50% oil independence because they use ethanol to do 50% of their vehicle fueling. They are headed for complete freedom from oil in the near future.

Since the oil barons in the US do not make mistakes, run the white house, run the congress, and run the economy, don't expect that to happen here.

As Brad points out in this post, expect WAR instead. It is the way of the oil barons.

Brad, I wish you guys would stop mincing your words...

Dredd: I am so glad you're hammering away at the exit polls. This is the only way we can proven the upcoming 2006 stolen elections.

After the war, and bu$hit's popularity goes back up 4 or 5% because he has again fooled the fools, what will Iran be like?

In Afganistan, the first nation to become "democratic", if you convert from Islam to Christianity, you get sentenced to death by hanging (link here).

Iraq will become "shariah law" based as well. So, when this republican regime gets done three nations will have been "liberated" and will be free to do the Judge Roy L. Bean demockcrazy once again ... yeeeehaaaw ... look out Pat Robertson, Billy Graham, and Osama Bad Bob.

Dredd: It seems like no one, except you and me, realize how huge the exit polls are.

If Nov. 2 was a national holliday, it would increase voting and put more power back in the hands of the average American and put the spotlight on vote day fraud and shennanigans. I suppose that is exactly why Nov. 2 is not a national holliday. Corporate America, the super-rich elites, and the Republicans do not want Nov. 2 as a national holliday. The less people who vote, the better for them.

Do you ever see a Republican putting forth legislation to make Nov. 2 a national holliday? For that matter, has ANY politician put forth legislation to have Nov. 2 a national holliday? This tells us something about ALL politicians. You never even hear this talked about anywhere...on blogs or anywhere. Why is this not a topic of conversation? What holliday is more important than Nov. 2, our #1 right as American citizens? Why is this not a national holliday?????? And how come NO ONE talks about this???

Exit polls are huge to the extent that they provide a contrast with the tabulated vote in a crooked election...or provide no contrast in an honest one.

Florida in 2004 is instructive. Exit polls had the Martinez-Castor Senate race as a dead heat. Martinez won by 1/2 a percentage point. That's within the margin of error. But the exit polls had Kerry winning the presidential race; the discrepancy was more than 3%, well outside the margin of error.

What was the excuse given for the 5-1/2% gap nationwide in favor of Bush? That people lied to the exit pollsters, or that more Kerry voters were interviewed. The Florida comparison disproves both of those rationales. The same people who gave honest answers regarding the Martinez-Castor race (and at once represented a valid sample), would not have lied about the presidential race. Nor could the presidential sample have been out of balance, because the same people were interviewed.

For what its worth, Greens, Ralph Nader, (and possibly some progressive democrats) have all made an issue out of making election day a holiday. The argument against it is non-existent, yet the issue never moves forward.

Like I said before downthread, they could move Veterans day back a couple of weeks and make time off mandatory, but that would get a populist elected, which the Corporatists do not want

Big Dan
Dredd

The exit polls in the last two Ohio elections have shown them to be crooked. The question then is: so what? If there isn't a remedy, why bother?

Weren't law suits filed based on these polls as proof of fraud? What happened to them?

We are in completely unchartered waters legally. I have seen cases that find that once the votes are certified, there is no going back ... i.e. so what if you prove fraud after-the-fact?

A procedure that would make sense to me would be to have lawsuits all drafted up before the elections with blanks ready to be filled in with the poll results v. the official results. It has to be done the day after the election. Those suits need to be filed with the court asking for an injunction to stop the certification of the votes pending adjudication of the facts: was there fraud or not? If the court issues an injunction and fraud is found, then the court is going to have to fashion a remedy.

If you can't get an honest election from machines (no matter how many times you do it ... if the crooks are in charge, you'll never get an honest election), then the court needs to call for an all paper ballot election with hand counting. The applicants to the court (plaintiffs) need to have a well-crafted alternative voting method to propose to the court and show that it is feasible. Unfortunately, the bad guys stay in office until that re-election takes place.

The argument against it being a holiday (voting day, that is) is because "most people won't vote anyway".. And, there's always "that's a full day of production/cash-flow that we would lose" (some figure tossed about would be like $250 billion or something.. something rediculous).

And, making "a single day" a voting holiday isn't really the "best" solution anyway. The problem isn't that people don't have a chance to vote, it's that most Democrat supporters would have to chose between losing their job and voting.

I'd propose having voting open for 2 or 3 days, and mandate that "all employees in all businesses must have at least 1 of those 3 days off the work schedule". Then you are afforded the ability to have only "slightly diminished" work days (minimizing lost revenue because you aren't "shut down" for a day). This would also ensure that voters would NOT have to chose between voting and keeping a job. Something like 12 hours on the polling station (8am to 8pm, for example) with tallies pushed up stream nightly (minimize the ability to "switch votes", etc). The only thing I see as being an issue there is if people see the "opposition" getting a strong foothold, people can try to "double vote" or otherwise break the integritiy of the election. Today, with just one day to vote, you don't really get a good feel for how either person is doing in a district until it's too late (though, some of these machines tabulating throughout the day seems suspect in that context too).

I don't know... there aren't any "easy" answers and debates would need to be had.. But Repukes like to "debate outside the normal rules".. they like to lie and distract and disinform and be otherwise dishonest in their debates. It makes for a broken process when your first objective is to push an agenda.. we need less agenda and more discussion about what's best for "the people".. But, then, the "people" are counter to Repugs and their corporate backers..

The Velvet Revolution ads are great...But I think there needs to be more emphasis on the action we need to take in order to make our voices heard.

Suggestions:

* Inject something like; "Call your Congresssional Reps NOW" in bold print at the beginning, middle and end of the ad.

*Perhaps a link to Congressional contacts or toll free numbers could be included in the ad.

* An ad that specifically promotes a call/write in campaign.

I know there a many of us out here trying to wake up the masses...but sometimes, except for a few, it feels like the DC Dems are "playing the fiddle while Rome burns. The treatment of Feingold by the Dems last week felt like another post election kick in the gut.

In a recent letter to the editor I suggested people program the numbers of their reps in their cell phones and call at least one a week.

I'm thinking of taking photots of the wounded and dead Iraqi children and U.S. vets to religious leaders and asking them what they are going to do to stop this insanity. What would Jesus do?

I live in conservative O.C. Ca.. I can't begin to express the isolation I sometimes feel living behind the "orange curtain." There are conscious people here...but not enough.

Sorry ...I am all over the map here in my usual ADD way...which is very embarassing considering the caliber of comments in Brad Blog.

I wish there was a George Soros who could pay for ads on airplane banners or blimps warnimg the people of Calif of the impending election fraud.

STOP ELECTION THEFT !!!

www.bradblog.com

RE exit polls and War

Hey Big Dan, RLM, and Savantster, Sandy D has a point in post #19. I am responding to it seperately.

BTW I liked the comments you all made about exit polls. Floridiot and I, in the Daily Voting News for March 18, have been hypothecating about a possible subversion of the exit polls.

The basis of the hypothesis being that scientific exit polling is indeed proof of fraudulent elections. And it applies en masse and exposes both the large and the small picture.

Big Dan has been blogging on this issue too. I have advocated it for years here on this blog (paying attention to the exit polls, and was the first to post links to scholarly works on the subject).

Anyway, Floridiot dug up some good stuff as a response to my rambling rants and the like. So look at some of the postulations at this BB thread (link here). This is something even you dem haters can get into. Another thread where a probable troll showed up is an example of how they try to focus on minutia but the use of the exit poll science eventually quiets them down (link here).

Seriously, remember when we all got together and did multi-hundred posts on the Lemme issue? I would like to do that on the suspected exit poll subversion theory. Perhaps our main man Brad will let us have a specialized open thread to look deeply into this matter? Brother Brad where art thou on this matter?

Anyway as many years as I have been posting here with the 6 or 7 (or 6 of 7) I have grown to appreciate the bloggers and the Blogger-in-chief ... (hope he is not spying on us)

We have known all about the exit polls for a good while now, that's why the MSM dropped the traditional (honest) pollsters & begot their own.

They ran out of excuses to explain how it is that the polls are all wrong now, even though they were right for decades before.

If an honest poll is allowed to be done anywhere (IF), they'll make sure it's accuracy is undermined by bringing in "experts" to explain why poll results are different now than they were in the past.

Then the accuracy of the poll's results will turn into a debate, instead of hard news, which is what they want.

CREATE DOUBT & conquer.

It's the same with everything.

We're screwed.

I called all 3 of my Representatives this morning--that's O'Bama, Durbin & Evans.

I demanded to know, in one sentence, why none of them have acted on the impeachment legislation that Conyers introduced long ago, or introduced their own legislation.

O'Bama's office said he was "considering the options". They couldn't elaborate on what the hell there is to consider.
Doesn't that translate to doing nothing?

Durbin's office, which had some air-headed little girl answering the phone who barely knew what planet she was on, much less any answers--(are our tax dollars paying her?--or is she his niece?), said that Durbin feels an impeachment would be fruitless at this time, since the Republicans have the majority.

Evans office said the same.

Of course, they all said they would tell the Representative about my concerns.

That is the standard answer I have been getting for 3 years now.
Most of the time the dinks on the phone don't even take your name.

I've written letters, called, e-mailed, signed petitions--nothing at all happens--but they "note my concerns".

Bullshit.

All 3 of them consulting together wouldn't know when it's time to pop a pimple. They're useless.

Thanks O'Bama, Durbin & Lane!!!!!!!!!!
Thanks for nothing.
Thanks for being a HUGE part of what is wrong with this country.
I question the patriotism of all 3 of you do-nothings.

Call YOUR Representatives---find out all the excuses they have for doing nothing...

The legislature is not going to do anything--ever. They are part of the problem.
They just give us little scraps of HOPE that they MIGHT do something one day. They figure that will shut us up for another 3 years & through the coming Iran war.

It's going to take a real revolution to get any significant changes made.

Brad, what makes you think your Velvet Revolution will cause change?

CAN they impeach Bush despite a Republican majority?

Anyone think the 2006 elections will be stolen? Again? It's absurd that this is happening, and it's beyond a doubt that it is happening. And we speak of it so casually, and nothing is done about it officially, although we are trying. Unbelievable.

I might be for the Dems or better yet a 3rd party hacking the machines, or simply destroying the machines ala a Boston e-party. I'm not kidding. If a 3rd party hacked it and won, it would be over...they'd be gone.

Big Dan,

It's all I can do just to make myself go & vote on the dumbass things.

Why give them another vote to flip?

Why vote at all, because the Dems are just as crooked as the Republicans--even if they DID get in--it would be 'same shit--different party'...

We're all screwed unless we revolt & change the system.

Well...we're all screwed.

Nobody can even muster the passion to confront a Representative--much less take to the streets revolting.

They'd rather watch American Idol.

Charlene #24, #26

Well, the republicans need not show up here. You have done their bidding. Rebublican talking points well done.

Ever notice that the laws of the senate give dictatorial power to the majority party? And that the minority party must suffer torture?

Probably not.

Dredd: That means, if a party finds the means to steal majority victory, it's all over...(for ever?)...through regular channels (?).

Our small town held open voting for a weekend and the following week. No excuse for not finding time. Usually the polls have volunteer people.

If you think this vote cheating is something new, do a little research on a book called VoteScam written by Jim and Ken Collier researched in Florida (no surprise there) and published in 1992. They were hacking before we had touch screens !

I think the answer is less privacy, write your vote on paper, hand it and watch it be recorded by a member of each party. Does it really matter if someone should see which way you voted? At least the vote might get counted.

It sure feels like climbing a hill during a mudslide.

Big Dan #28

I am ever on the same page as the bradblog ... we have historically been reasonable, with piercing vision, and unafraid ...

The only thing I do not tolerate is giving up ...

I looked into the eyes of my just-born granddaughter while holding my young grandson ... and figured that giving up was tantamount to throwing them in the garbage ...

Not going to fucking happen brother ...

Dredd #27,

Don't take out your angst on ME because "the laws of the senate give dictatorial power to the majority".

I asked Brad on another line if it's true that Bush cannot be impeached since there is a Republican majority, because 2 of my Representatives are using that as an excuse for doing nothing.

Instead of slamming ME because you don't like my explanation of why exit polls are no longer a useful way to prove election fraud, you need to tell the honcho his "Velvet Revolution" won't work, Dredd, because that's what you're saying.

Go on, boy, tell him.

Besides running your mouth on this blog & slamming those that ARE trying---what contributions have YOU personally made lately to help the cause???

Go on.

Tell us.

What did you do this week??

To be honest, I'm more concerned about drinkable water. I hope those in the legislature come to their senses and don't encourage Iran. bush is such and ego-maniac and bully, he probably won't listen, but there is hope. bush is taking us down a road that is not positive for us or the world - sounds like yet another failure bushy!!!

Dredd keeps wanting to believe that the Dems aren't "business as usual" in Washington. He wants to believe that they are some how "better than Pugs".

Yet, Clinton signed NAFTA... bad move for American workers. While the rest of the country was doing "ok", and we had a surpluss for once, he still stuck his foot up the worker's asses. His wife was on the board of Wal-Mart, one of the exact problems in this country (with all the low-wage jobs despite making huge profits, and buying things from China to keep costs low).

Then we have the fact that Dems COULD make a huge stink, if they wanted to. Yet we have MOST of them telling Feingold "SHUSH! stop! you're making them look at us! NOOOOOOOOO", instead of saying "yes, this pResident has broken the law and we, as Congress and 1/3 of the government, must DO SOMEHTHING". Instead, they hide like a bunch of beaten puppies. It's sickening.

Though, we must remember.. why do -anything- when you know that you're not the majority? I mean, it's not like we need to havr our leaders SHOW US they "care" so we'll vote for them next time, we can just sit around and listen to their LIP SERVICE.. business as usual..

Politics has become the joke it is BECAUSE of things like the Dems refusing to act. No one seems to give a shit about "the right thing", and the Dems keep shitting on their own when someone starts to rise to the top.. Hackett.. Dean.. Feingold.. Conyers.. etc. etc. etc. Spineless pussies that don't deserve our support. When they FIGHT, like they are PAID TO DO.. THEN maybe I'll support them. Until then, the "party" is a joke and not worth as a distinct entity. There are "some Dems" that deserve support, but the party is a farce, like most politics these days.

Yes.

It also explains why Bush Jr has Clinton & Bush Sr "working together".
It also explains why Bush Sr & Clinton are getting along so gosh darn well.

Why can't the people fund an exit poll? I have no idea how much it would cost,but come on we are not going to give up. I'm going to print these PDF of VR's add up and start handing them out. I'm going out tonight and I'm bringing some. Did anybody go to a peace rally this weekend? I did and it was great. Even got my 23 yr old and his 18 yr old girl to go with. I felt like an anarchist when we first got there because of the unbelievable police presence. But by the end of the march I felt like a Proud American joined by about 12,000 or 15,000 other Proud Americans strutting down Michigan Avenue in Chicago. No arrests. Calm and unbelievably PEACEFUL. What I was most surprised about was all the local news channels lead with the story.We have to get out on the streets and protest so more and more people will join us to oust this criminal cabal in our house. As for the 11-02 day off for voting? I was watching c-span this morning and the announcer was reading newspaper articles, the one that caught my attention was that congress will only be working 97 days this year because they extented their recess a whole week for St. Paddy's Day. Nice huh, How many of you get off a whole week for that holiday? They don't have time to do the peoples work.Well I emailed Durbin and Obama and asked for their schedules while they are home,I have a few questions to ask them. I'm thinking about stopping by their ofices this week for a little face time. Go to their offices and make them uncomfortable. If its at all feasable for your situation. I call and email several times a week. We have got to stay on their butts. I think Cindy Sheehan was right,civil disobedience in big numbers.

Oh, I forgot ,Thanks Brad And VR for this great opportunity!

Lawmakers will make $165,200 this year. Leaders earn more.

that article is the one projecting 97 days at work this year.. they make ass-loads of money, barely work.. OH.. right.. a lot of these assholes were BOARD MEMBERS for CORPORATIONS at one point, right? Paid insane amounts of money for doing jack shit, all the while bitching about paying the employees that actually make the money? like Congress not showing up for work to pass laws that represent the people they are representitives for?

And the masses sleep.. o0OzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzz

Being a well-informed citizen starts with getting important news. On the internet, there's sites like Brad Blog, Raw Story, and BlackBoxVoting.org.

On TV, there is news that is so good, it would bring tears to your eyes if you saw it today. On Democracy NOW! news on DISH: LINK-TV 9410 & FSTV 9415, and DirectTV 375 LINK-TV, Amy Goodman of Democracy NOW! news had on children who were crippled by our bombs. She had them right on the show, with interpreters...and their attitude was so great, it would bring tears to your eyes.

Today's Democracy NOW! news must be watched, if possible. Keep in mind, this is really the way news is supposed to be like. While Amy Goodman is interviewing these children crippled by our bombs, Lou Dobbs is yucking it up with 3 Republicans couched between 10 drug commercials and a few beer commercials.

ANBCBSNNX, as I call the news with commercials, should watch today's Democracy NOW! news...AND BE ASHAMED of how they pale in comparison.

The Real TV News I

The Real News II

Keep in mind, this is ONE DAY's Democracy NOW! news on TV. It's like this every day. And, no commercials, no politicians, and no pundits...the first tell minutes of their news contains more important information than ANBCBSNNX's combined news all day long. They are hero's at Demcracy NOW! Their news is breathtaking, astounding, and important...especially compared to corporate-controlled ANBCBSNNX's news...if you want to call it news. Compare them, I dare anyone!

Dredd sedd:

Seriously, remember when we all got together and did multi-hundred posts on the Lemme issue? I would like to do that on the suspected exit poll subversion theory. Perhaps our main man Brad will let us have a specialized open thread to look deeply into this matter? Brother Brad where art thou on this matter?

I'll be hitting the road again this week, and will be a bit less here than usual (hopefully!) --- might be a good time for such an open thread. Feel free to remind me or Gideon or Edwards to do so after Wednesday this week.

Anyway as many years as I have been posting here with the 6 or 7 (or 6 of 7) I have grown to appreciate the bloggers and the Blogger-in-chief ... (hope he is not spying on us)

If I would be that Blogger-in-Chief, then yes, I am spying on you (put that down, Dredd! You don't know where that thing has been!)

As to the other comments from CHARLENE and SAVANSTER, while Dredd and I slightly differ on the matter, I tend to agree with him more than I disagree.

As you know, I have no problem beating the crap out of Dems who deserve it. However, they are by no means "just as bad as the Reps" and equating them as such, and levelling a decidely unlevel playing field only benefits the Republicans which happen to be, perhaps, the most corrupt and dishonest bunch to ever sit in our nation's capital.

The Dem's corruption is childsplay next to what the Reps are getting away with right now. It's the difference between retail corruption (Democrats) and serious, systematic, instutionalized and wholesale corruption (Republicans).

There is simply no comparison.

How to deal with that issue is where Dredd and I differ, but only slightly.

I think I need to make a distinction here..

CHARLENE is the one that stated "the dems are just as bad as the Reps", not me. (actually, it was "because the Dems are just as crooked as the Republicans").

Now, while I feel that -all- politicians (for the most part) are "in on the take", it's clear that the Pugs are WAY worse than Dems in that regard. And I've always said that "Dems tend to favor people, Pugs tend to favor money".. which is to say that Dems are "better for us than Pugs", in general.

My argument is that there seems to be a HUGE push from Dredd that "the Dems just don't have a majority, they can't do anything".. which is not -exactly- true. Reid shut down Congress and demanded answers.. Granted, the "net result" was nothing, but the -effort- is what matters to the voters watching. They had a chance to filibuster a few times/few things, but instead, laid down and let the Pugs walk all over them without a fight. Why? they were afriad the Pugs would "vote to change the rules"? GOOD! let them! that just makes them look like that much MORE of bullies, AND, actually DOES remove all power from "the minority". Guess what else that does? Helps cause people to SEE that this 2 party system is BROKE.. There's not much argument for "serious change" when you can't substantiate your "point" because you never pushed the issue.. At least, that's my perspective.

It's true that Pugs are WAY worse than Dems, all around (and some might not agree, but would be hard pressed to support their position). But I also say it's true that Dems are rolling over on a LOT of issues instead of making a HUGE stink about it, and I have yet to hear a "good" reason for that. I'm not saying they should "effect change" because I know they are a minority and can't exactly do that, but I also don't think it's reasonable to just fall down and pout because you know your efforts "might be in vain". Nothing ventured, nothing gained... and the Dems aren't venturing shit at the moment.

I guess my point in replying was because of this..

"Ever notice that the laws of the senate give dictatorial power to the majority party? And that the minority party must suffer torture?

Probably not."

I don't agree that "the minority party must suffer torture". They can get out there, they can make noise, they can raise a stink, they can rally their constituents and those of other Members. True, if people from the "majority" don't come over on a vote, the minority can't effect the change they want, but that's another reason to break up the "2 party system", isn't it? make it a true "majority vote" and not "majority party pushes it's entire agenda vote"?

*shrug*

oh, and I hadn't read Charlene's post either I also tend to agree with Dredd more than not.. but he's really been beating on this "poor Dem minority, they can't do anything". Putting it in 2 or 3 threads might have been sufficient.. but it's been in like 10 - 15.. it's starting to sound much more like an excuse than a pointing out of a simple truth.. *shrug* and doesn't negate the -fact- that they "could raise a stink but don't"..

To be perfectly accurate, the Dems WOULD be just as bad as the Republicans--IF they were in power!

Since they aren't, all they can do is stare at the Republicans through the windowpane with their little noses pressed against it--dreaming of the day they'll be on the inside, in power once again.

Of course, the more they stare & DO nothing, the less chance they have of getting inside.
Bobby Kennedy's own son SAID the Dems were almost as bad as the Republicans in Salon a long time ago. He ought to know.

It's certainly true that, as the opposing party, it's the Dems' job ( & DUTY to their country mind you) to do some friggin opposing already.

The excuse I got from O'Bama, claiming that he is "considering the options" is ridiculous. How many more years is he going to think?
That stupid excuse was almost funny--except that it infuriated me. The NERVE of these pampered pets we keep.
And HE is supposed to be the Great White Hope of his party!
That shows you how lame the Dems are.
I don't care if Oprah likes him, O'Bama's a boob.
If he had the brains to lead the way against all this Republican madness--he WOULD be Presidential material--but he doesn't & he isn't.

And Brad, IS it true that with a Republican majority, Bush cannot be impeached?

That's the question.

I, myself, have had a "Impeach Bush--War Criminal" sign in my yard for over a year now. No one else in my entire town & even my area has anything of the sort in their yard.

I read that the rules are-- it only takes ONE Representative to introduce the articles of impeachment & the rest vote on it. And since Bush's popularity is so low, now is the time.
Hell, if it doesn't pass THIS week, the Dems should introduce it EVERY week until it does.
That's what the Republicans do when they want something--like drilling for oil in the Arctic. When they are defeated once, or twice, they just KEEP ON BRINGING IT UP--over & over--until it passes.

Two of my Representatives claimed they could not impeach Bush because the majority are Republican & won't vote for it.
If that's true--why keep trying to 'git-r-done'?

I want to do things that will work.
So far, nothing has.

Maybe the good Dems in congress really know what their up against, and we DO NOT
The DLC Dems know and would like to keep it that way
Could you imagine what the CORPORATE media would do to a Rep if he came out and said somethng like I said in the thread mentioned by Dredd above?
(that their all phony Jesus hating, war mongering Fascists, and I just proved it ?)
Come on, give them a little slack

Hi. My name is Allan Martin Kemler and I own Rockpile magazine. Rockpile is an independent music and culture magazine based in Philadelphia and distributed nationally by Rider Circulation Services in Los Angeles. I want to offer you a free ad for the Bush Job Approval ad. Please give me a call or email me so we can discuss the specs, etc. Again, it's free and I want to donate space to you. Thanks, Allan
allan@rockpile.net
215 715 6496
http://www.rockpile.net

P.S. Sorry to contact you this way. I couldn't find a contact section.

I better be quiet now, or I might be the first one here (also, while you're there read the "Whiny Conservative one, hilarious)

Greg Palast has an interesting bit of news at his website. He is an American investigative journalist who operates in England for the BBC and a newspaper. They acquired some interesting government documents affirming the obvious: it's about oil. Now, in the 1970's , having such documents and relating their contents would have made page one of the New York Times and led the nightly news.

Worth a read.

And not entirely unrelated to Iran or Iraq.

Allan Martin Kemler #43

You are kind.

Email Brad at:

TheBradBlog@cville.com

For Floridiot: Democrats in Congress are no less responsible for this election-machine mess than Republicans are. It's worse than you suggest.

HAVA was a bi-partisan "effort." After the 2000 disgrace, Congress decided not to "go there" where vote-flipping and outright fraud were concerned, because Republicans were happy Bush won and Democrats were afraid of being called "sore losers" (that old American tradition of being a "good sport" even when you've been screwed).

So what did Congress do? They focused on the second-biggest problem (after outright fraud), which was disenfranchisement of voters. Chris Dodd (D-CT) somehow thought that election fraud was less important than making sure blind people could vote electronically. Who doesn't want that? So the word went out to Diebold and the other crooked companies to make machines blind people could use, with the implied promise (privately, maybe not implied) that HAVA's architects would recommend these machines and would set deadlines for states to conform with HAVA by ordering them.

It was legislative blackmail, plain and simple. The Electoral College reserves for states the right to run their own elections (even federal elections). HAVA effectively turned the Electoral College on its ear for the sake of blind people. This explains why Chris Dodd is going around saying, "I looked into the election fraud issue. There's nothing there" and why he got angry at Kerry for saying, "You know, there's a problem with these machines."

Dodd is the archetype of the empty-suit politician. Take the easy road, help blind people, ignore tough issues like election fraud, bullshit your constituents every step of the way, check the mirror every five minutes to make sure your gray mane is shiny.

Floridiot #44

Astounding find.

Note this quote from your link:

"Interestingly, Oliver North has contributed to a new book called Endgame, in which he blames all of America's ills, including terrorism, on Democrats" (emphasis added).

I have hit a nerve on this blog. I saw that many bloggers were not aware of the symptomatic pattern of their posts.

That is how psyops work. Your way of thinking is subverted and you do things against your own interests by attacking those who have your true interests at heart.

This dictatorship wants to turn the populace into hate filled, emotion driven, sensless automatons who will fight each other instead of those dictators.

If we do not win the upcoming election and change the rubber stamp majority, prepare for this:

"It is relevant that in 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced his desire to see camps for U.S. citizens deemed to be 'enemy combatants.' On Feb. 17 of this year, in a speech to the Council on Foreign Relations, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld spoke of the harm being done to the country's security, not just by the enemy, but also by what he called 'news informers' who needed to be combated in 'a contest of wills.' Two days earlier, citing speeches critical of Bush by Al Gore, John Kerry, and Howard Dean, conservative columnist Ben Shapiro called for 'legislation to prosecute such sedition'" (link here, and here).

Thanks Dredd, it took me a while to get my head around it too (lol), I was just waiting for your lead
Hope Brad catches it. I kept thinking this could be the story of the Millennia (at least for you and me, anyway)

Oh sorry RLM, I wasn't talking about the voting machines, I was talking about what Dredd and I were working on (still trying to get my head around it)

Dredd, if that story ever does come out, we could all have a campout up there by 29 Palms

"That is how psyops work. Your way of thinking is subverted and you do things against your own interests by attacking those who have your true interests at heart"

Another serious problem is not being willing to hold someone accountable because of a faux loyalty to some ideal. In that, supporting someone because they are a part of your click, regardless of their actions, is just as damaging as having the "opposition subverty your thinking". In other words, judge people on their actions, nothing more.

The "actions" of the Dems (in general) haven't been much. Precious few are actually doing -anything- in all this. And SOME are actually working -against- us and are corroborating with neo-cons and pugs.. Voting FOR the Patriot Act? reactionary and silly.. voting FOR the Bankruptcy bill? pathetic and damaging to those who need protection the most (not some of the most profitable companies in the world).. NOT speaking out against Shrubby, not supporting Censure, not supporting Impeachment, not filibustering, agreeing with a "rush of a budget bill", agreeing to be perhaps the SHORTEST IN SESSION Congress in history.. etc etc etc.

"business as usual" effects BOTH parties because we only have the two parties and they are both in bed with Corporate America. I don't see the Dems out there smashing the Corporate Finance issue like they said they would (getting bills passed, now that's on the head of the Majority, I'll grant you that). I keep seeing Dems roll over and play "nice" with the other politicians.. professional con-men looking to increase their millions upon millions on tax-payer backs.

And I disagree with Charlene about how "bad Dems would be if they had the majority".. They -had- the majority for a very long time, and -nothing- they did ever comes to the level of the number of Pugs on the take and the scale they are on it today. Dems might be guilty of fudging a bit here and there, all politicans do it (and SHOULD be punished for it), but the Pugs have set a new record for ammount of pure corruption in Washington, make no mistake about that.

Savanster, their all in on "it" and it might be something about Chaffe ? crying about "it", and Old Man Bush saying something like If the American people knew what we were really up to, we'd all be run out of this country (paraphrasing), I think I just touched on "it" when we were doing our little research project yesterday
I'm with all of you on this, don't get me wrong

The Dems were unable to do what they wanted when Clinton was in office any where near the level of the Republicans because they didn't have control of both Congress & the Presidency & the media at the same time, like the Republicans do now.

The Republicans have been planning this power takeover of our country since Reagan & his "star wars" theme, at least, when they had the FCC drop the Fairness Doctrine as kickoff to mind control through media control.

If the Dems had been powerful when Clinton was in office---how do you explain Clinton's impeachment over a sexual fling & over the fact that he may or may not have gotten some money in a shady manner-(Whitewater)? The Republicans did it to him.

I, myself, would like to hold on to the fantasy that the White Hat Dems will save us if they could just get in power--but experience tells me they won't.

I have to accept reality. There IS no easy answer to our country's predicament. The system needs fixing. It does NOT need the Democrats--but they are better than the Republicans only because it breaks the Republicans' entire & total grip on power.

I know we have exactly the government we deserve. The best money can buy!

We, as a people, fell asleep at the wheel--didn't stay involved in the day to day goings on in government---that is the ultimate reason we have this mess now.

The only reason Dems are not quite as bad as the Republicans is they have less power, did not plan as well, & do not have such deep pockets, & the Republicans out maneuvered them--maybe forever.

Dredd, our project so far has only, for me, came up with my learning this, the two political partys came up with these different organizations to instill their dogma in new emerging Democracys (whether they blow the shit out of them, or not)
Its a political battle to see who can get their dogma to stick the best
It appears that the party in Congressional power here has control (compare Soviet bloc during Clinton/ Reagan/Bush I to what happened in Iraq/Afghanistan with Bush II) as to which system is used
The Commitees contain everyone from soup, to nuts (even the AFL/CIO is involved, so is the NRA)
I'll see if I can find an article on it, all together
BUT it still involves some very crooked shit; election rigging, regime toppling (the political battle part of it)
The Democratic option seems to be like what we used to have here (free press, unions, people control the government)
The Republican option is more Fascistic (government and media corporate control, every man for himself and all that crap)
I even read that that some of these commitees, replaced CIA operations from the past
Anyway, thats what I've digested so far
Do you understand this?

I tried to simplify it so I could understand it and also so I wouldn't have to type too much (me and my sticky keyboard are not friends)

Heres an example
This outfit is on one of the Commitees
Orion strategies LLC
I typed that on the navigation bar
Heres what I got, A lobbiest ? here