Great tag team guys! We have a 'Voter ID' bill here in Utah that needs quashing. Are you free?

If they want photo IDs (which I think is a good idea for an individual to have, anyway), then fine; they should also create a service that makes them for a reasonable price......

..................but, it's clear enough this isn't even the point, since no such ID is required for the military vote, or absentee voting.

This merely plays out to be a further attempt to disenfranchise more minority/poor voters (which are heavily disenfranchised already), whom almost all vote for anything but a Republican, and could be hard-pressed to budget for IDs they would only be using to exercise their supposed "right to vote". It's akin to having to pay to vote, which is supposed to be a basic constitutional right!

In this country, the "right to vote" is an ideal, or a political talking point, but measures like this, along with these diabolical machines, assure that it is not a reality!

I would say it is time for a major drive to get poor/minorities to vote by absentee ballot. Force these manipulators to come up with a way to sabotage this right, as well.

:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
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Has anyone noticed that call-in shows never use people's full names? This is also true of televised comments "from viewers." It's always, "Carol in Missouri" or "Fred in Texas."

Suppose someone went on and said, "I insist on using my full name, because I don't want my views confused with someone else with the same first name in my state." Would the network allow it? Or is the "first name only" rule designed to cover the network's ass in case Carol or Fred says something threatening to national security? I've often wondered about this, and wondered even more why nobody has ever questioned it.

When I meet someone, and say, "I'm Bob Mills," and the person replies, "I'm John," I always wonder, "Why won't he give me his last name?" This happens maybe half the time. Is it a meaningless social trend? Or does it have real privacy implications? The fact that no TV or radio call-in show ever uses last names can't be a coincidence.

"Ryan from Salinas" could in fact be William Jackson from Salinas, hired by the G.O.P. to spread disinformation and wishing to keep his true identity secret. If Ryan were asked for his last name and refused to give it, that might be a clue. But this never happens on radio, or on TV.

And another thing folks
Remember the Ricin attacks ?
Thats another story that always seems to fall out of scrutiny, now thats a story to me, it only happened to Democratic Congressmen, and it was to get them behind and vote for the the phony Pat-riot act ? it proves that the neo-cons and the corporations have taken over our Government; the voting process, Rumsfelds Death Star (pentagon), the CIA, our freedoms, what information we hear, how much we pay for fuel, etc...

Trolls cover the spectrum. There are dumb as dirt trolls, and hired trolls who have greater sophistication.

They are so good they can not be detected in one or two posts. They lurk, get a feel for a blog, then inject themselves into the discussion flow.

Like meta-viruses the "good" trolls can fool the blog into thinking the troll is one of them.

Then they inject ideas contrary to the benefit of the blog persona, a little at a time.

This should not be confused with diversity of opinion and platform.

The republicans are lock-step until election years when they feign multiple ideas, while the democrats are always of differing opinions.

I see the organized, lock-step, and unitary posture of the republican party as being far more dangerous than the multi-faceted views of the democratic party.

The democratic party is less dangerous, because it is hard to get a "leader" which all will follow it is hard to concentrate power. This is a very good and strong characteristic for American values, because we think power corrupts and like to have it divested in various ideologies that work compromise and cooperation.

No compromise nor cooperation are sought by republican lock-step ... and hence congress becomes a rubber stamp and the president never has to do vetos. The unitary republican government resembles a dictatorial entity.

One of the universal tactics of the trolls, which they have received from republican talking points recently, is to blame the victim.

In congress the victim is the minority party, because the majority party republicans who have chairmanship of ALL committees, have MAJORITY VOTE on ALL committees, bully the minority.

That is how trolls do it. Blame the victim.

Notice, right off the bat, the "befriend, then bone" strategy. He began by "building up" Brad..."great job on voter rights, Brad"...then when he gave the initial impression he was "on your side", he "boned" you!!!

The old "befriend, then bone" routine!

But this caller served a great purpose...because of this caller, you couldn't have a better documented example of changing people's mind's about photo-id. A genius idea to pick this example out, and put it on your blog. And great "on the fly" quick thinking responses by the 2 hosts.

Great job!!! (not befriend, then "bone", great job, either!).

Also known as the "Trojan-Horse"..."Great job, Brad" routine.....

HCOCDR uses this strategy, too, in case anyone hasn't noticed.

OT

RENO, Nev. (AP) - Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid said Friday that if midterm elections were held today Democrats would win the five seats they need to draw even in the Senate, due largely to the Bush administration's "general incompetence" at home and abroad. [...]

"And we have good shots in Arizona and Tennessee," he said. "If elections were held today, we'd pick up five seats. The Senate would be 50-50. " (link here).

From the polls I have looked at, it is also possible that the republicans could loose the House Majority.

OT

At 6:30pm on Wednesday March 1st, The American Constitution Society is hosting a panel discussion titled: "The Advocates Speak: Texas Redistricting Cases." The cases are League of United Latin American Citizens v. Perry, 05-204; Travis County v. Perry, 05-254; Jackson v. Perry, 05-276; and GI Forum of Texas v. Perry, 05- 439. It will feature:

The event will be held at Houston Hall, Classroom One at the Howard University School of Law which is at 2900 Van Ness St. NW. (link here)

Troll in Chief

John Dean, past white house legal counsel, writes yet again about the troll in chief and the dangers such trolls pose (link here).

.
AMMUNITION 4 the WAR on DEMOCRACY

CLEAN SWEEP campaign

Is Ready 4 U at...
.

http://www.RogerART.com
.

... " PROTESTERS GET YOUR BROOM "

If U C Me and My Broom, Out There...

Stop and Say Hello
.
.
Let US Take Back... OUR American Government

And Clean Up OUR Neighborhood, Earth

Let's Create A New World, Void of War, Now

You Know What To Do... Pass It On

99,
Just give the right Hawaii, nice and warm (like hell, so it won't be too drastic of a change), close to their buddies in red China, and N. Korea
(And don't tell them about the volcano there, or maybe they would use it to feed their God, Satan)

Oh to live in the deluded world of Trolldom.. If ignorance is bliss, "Ryan from Salinas" is one content mofo..

And, what's more bothersome is, "most" Republican voters seem to have the basic mentality of "I want to keep as much of MY hard earned money in my pocket as I can. Republicans promise that". What amazes me MORE is, to see how badly most of them "ignore the truth" about many many things, or get sucked up into the "partisan" bullshit (Limboob, mAnn, Hannity, et. al. push)... all just to defend their "right" to "keep their money". We -all- want to keep our money.. but what most of us [Dems/Libs/Greens/Etc] understand (and Repugs don't) is that you have to hold "companies" accountable, control them, make the system "fair".. othewise you have human beings dying for someone elses profits. At the end of the day, Repugs want to convince themselves that that's ok, and Dems want to prevent it (because it IS preventable).

In such that "most" trolls are just selfish greedy dolts who live in denial so they can continue being the "fat, lazy, ignorant, decadent Americans" they've become accustomed to.

Brad, when guests use the insHannity meme, the "Democrat Party", instead of "Democratic Party", thats the mind trigger for, "this is a troll alert" to kick in

Reid: ..."due largely to the Bush administration's
"general 3-stooge-ishness" at home and abroad. [...]"

"Hey, Moe, ya done shootin' that guy in the face?"

"Yeah, Curley, then let's outsource our ports ta dat country the hijackers came from. You're not lookin' where you're shootin', Curley."

"Yeah, I'm shootin' where I'm lookin'!"

"WOO-WOOP-WOOP-WOOP-WOOP"...

Just split the country in half. Conservatives to the right; liberals to the left. I'm so sick of the hoked-up ire of these greedy maniacs. Peace and quiet. Maybe a nice wide buffer zone between the United Pacific States and the Land of the Bar Code Tattoo. Please.

floridiot: Maybe DUBAI! The grand poobah's flop would probably hold them all.

That guy sounded like a CIA paid faker to me, no way the guy was possibly that stupid.....

And reminds me in utah we are dealing with that as well......so far the injunctions will only be on the machines. Nobody wants to veto the ID bill. I am in favor of an ID bill, but not photograph/thumbprint requirements or any of the other absurd ideas.

That's all right-wing bullshit. Basically what is needed is to toss the machines; and use proper SS# ID at the polls to eliminate voter registration fraud.

Doug E.

As I said, even when the situation turns around and they lose control of the house there are far too many DLC individuals in this congress.

I don't think you realize this at all or are even thinking about it, Dredd. You assume its republicans exclusively which is a foolhearty assumption.

Even when we get rid of these VOTING MACHINES & the rigged voting goes for the highway, there is still enough tricks in place for the DLC to safely steal all their seats.

And with them in charge there will be nothing but faux outrage.....after Cheney's gone they'll slap "Senor" on the wrist, have a fake trial and then install someone like Lieberman.

That is what you're REALLY dealing with you see Dredd.....in the end we are taking INSTANT RUNOFF VOTING nationwide, and there's not a thing any of you democrats or republicans can do to stop it.

Doug E.

"IRV - not a panacea, but good for democracy."

The only thing is, Arry we just elected some independents in California and Arizona and took over Vermont....Instant Runoff Voting is COMING, but we can't allow IRV to take flight with the MACHINES still in place.

This is why the neocons are targeting CALIFORNIA as they are so violently....they don't WANT independents in there because they will kick their ass out!!!!

They want more REPUBLICAN & DEMOCRAT stooges to fulfill their global paranoid agenda from hell. You know it and I know it, Arry...

Doug E.

#2
There are a surprising number of right wing paid operatives who call into talk radio shows and particularly appear in AOL and other chat room forums to place right wing propaganda. They don't all work for the CIA, they work for little privately funded groups that operate in the background. I have had a few conversations with these guys and they get paid a number of ways- by the hour, by the post, even commission based pay for the ones who post on financial boards to pump or bash particular stocks. Someone needs to break into this and expose it.

I may know of one of these schmoes. There is a clown who is on yahoo message boards every single day that fits your description. He goes by the name of hospiquality or techknowlogics. I'd be surprised if this knuckledragger is not getting paid by the RNC or somebody else. He literally post the same links over and over, day after day. I've hads a few run ins with the ass hole, and I've come out on top, hehe.

Does anyone think the GOP operatives don't have Plan B, for when the voting machines are gone? They have Plan C, already, I have news for you! They are persistent and relentless, it's all they do, and they've been doing it for half a century.

Great diversified opinions here, on the war. I am a vet and did you know this war is best for Iraqi citizens? Don't blame the soldiers, they're only following orders. You guys are great!

HCOCDR

For anyone who was never on this blog, and read the above from me, I'm being sarcastic...

Did anyone see "Weapons of Mass Deception" on LINK TV? Also, I saw the "INN Report". It was like the news, only given by Brad Blog & Raw Story and other progressive sites. Those 2 channels are everything we've been asking for in TV news (DISH 9410 & 9415).

Big DAN

Again, this is just my opinion but I highly suggest you stop treating it as "GOP Operatives" that are just doing everything.

The GOP nor the republican party are NOT behind this garbage. They allow it to continue yes, and alot of them profit off the sham.

But it is not some smack of "GOP operatives" busily doing things everywhere, around the world either. That's a complete smokescreen.

The DLC is, in fact by that same account complicit in this worldwide scam and the smokescreen. They are working in BOTH sides, against everyone else. But it isn't the democratic party, or republican party behind it *either*.....

You should look up someone named Bob Urosovich and you'll get quite the paid lesson.....these individuals who run the sham are all neocons.... and they are foreign agents, who have molded policy to divide and conquer.

Frankly, the 3rd party will finish them....if the machines are removed first. And then these individuals will go create their own party I have no doubt, and run that one everywhere until they're finished in the USA.

Doug E.

Clever nick, "War On Error"

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Doug E #22

I am glad to see you come out of the closet clean. Intellectual honesty is better than denial.

On the merits I think you will continue your rhetoric for a long time if the republicans maintain power. The independents, greens, libertarians, etc., do not have the public's votes. The polls show that the public favors the democrats to replace the republican majority.

I did not do the polls. If the public favored independents to replace and get the majority party, or greens, or any other American political party, I would be for it. But I am a realistic person, and I know it is pie in the sky wishful thinking to hope the body politic will go thru another major turn around in one political cycle.

They have already done a major turnaround to say in the polls that democrats are now favored.

I am merely reflecting the political reality that we need desperately to get rid of the republican majority. I have given real and sound reasons (they are a dictatorship; congress is a rubber stamp these past six years) to get rid of them, and I see what the public wants.

Your esoteric, hope filled, pie in the sky hope for another party besides the democrats to take the majority because the body politic wants it, is not going to work.

I will be on this BLOG after the November election and so will you. The independents, greens, and the rest will not have a chance for the majority but the democrats will.

Republicans have had total power for a six year screw-America fest, which includes total white house power, total congress power, and probable supreme court power.

So are you better off after six years of republican total control?

If not you better think about doing what can be done instead of trippin and hoping what can be done. So ...

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Big Dan #26

I agree.

I know Doug E (post #30) has been stung by GOP talking points, and his solution is to blame the democrats for what the republicans have done. The way it is done is to say "the democrats do it too".

But the reality is just too damn strong. The republicans have had the White House for six years, the congress for six years (chairmanship on EACH AND EVERY committee, majority vote on EACH AND EVERY committee) and have been a defacto dictatorship.

Meanwhile, democrats and independents have had ZERO chairmanship on ANY committee, and ZERO majority vote on ANY committee. So when Doug E shifts the blame to the victim, the democrats who wield no power, but thru Conyers, strength, he does the wrong thing.

The only party with a chance to take control from the republicans THIS ELECTION are the democrats. This is clearly what the polls show.

Once the dictatorial power of the republicans has been broken, the White House can face accountability of every possible sort. Not before.

That is why the GOP wants Doug E to "keep up the good work" of blaming democrats and "advocating" independents. The GOP knows that such a strategy is in their favor and they will maintain control if their strategy prevails. So ...

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Doug E is Ross Perot running this year ?

I remember how the republicans used to say "go Ross go", then later it was "go Ralph go".

They were enablers of the republicans in those elections, and will be this year too if the GOP has its way.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Click Here and Support Clint Curtis
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HOUSE Committee; Chair (R=repub, D=dem, I=ind); (Membership Count)

Agriculture; Goodlatte (R); (23 R, 20 D)
Appropriations; Lewis (R); (37 R, 29 D)
Armed Services; Hunter (R); (34 R, 28 D)
Budget; Nussle (R); (22 R, 17 D)
Education & Workforce; McKeon (R); (27 R, 22 D)
Energy and Commerce; Barton (R); (32 R, 26 D)
Financial Services; Oxley (R); (35 R, 31 D, 1 I)
Government Reform; Davis (R); (21 R, 17 D, 1 I)
Homeland Security; Cox (R); (26 R, 23 D)
House Administration; Ney (R); (06 R, 03 D)
Intelligence; Hoekstra (R); (11 R, 09 D)
International Relations; Hyde (R); (26 R, 23 D)
Judiciary; Sensenbrenner (R); (22 R, 16 D)
Resources; Pombo (R); (25 R, 21 D)
Rules; Dreier (R); (08 R, 04 D)
Science; Boehlert (R); (24 R, 20 D)
Small Business; Manzuillo (R); (18 R, 15 D)
Standards of Official Conduct; Hastings (R); (05 R, 05 D)
Transportation and Infrastructure; Young (R); (41 R, 34 D)
Veterans' Affairs; Buyer (R); (13 R, 12 D)
Ways and Means; Thomas (R); (23 R, 17 D)

(link here).

Dredd, AMEN to that, some will NEVER figure this out
even if its in writing, from history, etc
If enough progressive Dems are elected, they can marginalize the DLC
The Progressives are NOT going to have total control
That is something SOME are going to have to figure out for themselves
A vote for an progressive Independant is a vote for a REPUBLICAN with this two party system

For Dredd: Allow me to defend supporters of Ross Perot and Ralph Nader. I voted for each man once (for Ross in 1992 but not 1996, and for Nader in 2000).

The basic assumptions made in saying that these men were enablers for Republicans (by taking more votes away from Democrats) are that the two-party system is immutable, that no third party can ever gain control or make a meaningful difference, and that ego alone drives a Perot or a Nader.

The two-party system has failed the country. It works in spite of itself whenever the president and Congress are from opposite parties, as happened between 1994 and 2000. But whenever one party controls the White House and Congress, as between 1961-1969 and 2001-2006, we get lying presidents (Johnson, Bush) who get us into awful wars. Why? Because Congress doesn't represent an adequate check and balance.

We also get corruption. Remember Bobby Baker and Abe Fortas from the Johnson years? How did LBJ arrive in Washington broke and leave a rich man? The Bush administration is far worse, needless to say.

So why shouldn't a third party, and maybe a fourth, be allowed to enter the fray? If it's the only way to bring corruption and illegal wars to light, I say "go for it." The fact that ethics have basically been abandoned by Congress is mostly the fault of Republicans, granted; but when Democrats were in charge of Congress we had Jim Wright, Dan Rostenkowski, and assorted other sleazebags.
Not a whole lot better than DeLay and Ney.

While I can see the point of folks who don't want to support Dems who are moderate on a number of things, from the war to the environment to Bizpig practices; I think we can all agree that the Dems don't foster a culture of complete corruption and incompetance like the Pubs do.
I think we can also agree that the way the Pubs win is by keeping everybody in lockstep together - and, no matter what, they will keep that 35% or so mindless followers in their camp. That's why, given the American system as it is, we have to unite as Democrats to take back our government; and then (and only then) begin the process of moving left.
If we insist on trying to follow left wing third party candidates (however much we agree with them...), we may make honest points, but we will continue to lose. We know the Pubs will go so far as to offer money to our 3rd party types, hoping to drain off a major percentage of lefties.
I'm a fan of the Green party; and, if I could, would put Greens in all over Washington; but, as a realist, I think it's more important for America for us to win - throw the Pub bastahds out - then to make political points.

Down goes election fraud ringleaders in Ohio...Kenneth Blackwells neocon house of cards begins to collapse

Doug

"The independents, greens, libertarians, etc., do not have the public's votes. "

This is totally incorrect. We DO have the votes and just picked up more seats in several states.

In fact, we would have them nationwide once the system is thrown out....

This isn't about the ridiculous polls/chairmanships and "pie in the sky" rules you refer to. The entire system is a SETUP.

Actually once we get instant-runoff voting there will be none of that at all.....that's the only thing trying to keep the third party "down". The system is ONLY stacked because these laws are not implemented yet of which we will make certain of. Which is why we're set to get rid of the machines and THEN go nationwide with instant voting.......and unlike you, I'm being a realist because that is the only party which supports real libertarian, conservative progress viewpoints and stands by them.

Doug E.

Dredd: Are you for the Dems over the Repubs...and once that happens, 3rd parties over the Dems? Is that what you're saying? Take it a step at a time? Maybe we're all in agreement here, and we don't know it.

Big Dan #41

Yes.

We have long term and short term goals in any situation, and all the more so in the current emergency situation.

In an emergency situation we must triage. That is, put that which can be saved in one area, and that which can not in another.

Then when it is clear what can be saved, and what can not, focus exclusively on that which can.

What can be saved is a majority party which is much more humane and American ... a party more diverse, kinder and gentler.

What can be rejected is a unitary republican dictatorship that rules the white house and rules the congress ... incompetently and dangerously.

I do not think Doug E #40 has a realistic view. Look at the independents in #36 and note that they have an impossible task, while the dems have a realistic chance.

I do not think RLM #38 (who wants to write speeches for a democratic candidate this election) frames the issue coherently, by dodging the triage issue and asking why can't we have a multi-party system this second.

To see it coherently is to see that Karl Rove and other republican monsters are dead set on keeping the deadly status quo going, and we do not need to take any pie in the sky chances at this point.

This f*king aircraft is in a nose dive and we sure as hell must get into the cockpit and pull it out.

Arguing about how many people to send into the cockpit to grab the wheel from the crazed and drunken captain when one will do is not an argument for this time and this election.

What emerges with a democratic party takeover of the majority is a wiser body politic, a public with its eyes more open.

At that point, in '08 or thereabouts, we can move into what I think we absolutely must ... a multi-party system with multi-party rules. I think we must go there as soon as possible, but not this year.

And if the dems will not take us there, in whole or in satisfactory part, then they face accountability in '08 or thereabouts ... I mean I will advocate day and night against any political party, because none are forever safe and sound.

in #36 and note that they have an impossible task,

Wrong, we don't have an impossible task we have THE task. We're prosecuting everybody as thats the only way it will end. The "democrat" party will never stop capitulating, and you will put your eggs in a basket that breaks.

Its already shattered all over the floor actually....I only endorse CANDIDATES, and never parties, after a certain point.

And we're the only ones who are going to force instant-runoff voting to go everywhere....so you can pretty much forget about anything else. That I guarantee. Both parties will be thrown to the wayside once we sweep the states....

Doug E.

Doug #43

We just found out they are paying you $6.50 an hour ... so we are offering you $6.00 per hour ...

nobody besides you believes that independents are going to take the majority in the senate or the house this election ...

luv ya ...

Actually Dredd, I'm with Doug.

People need to get thier heads OUT of this 2-party lie we have. There are PLENTY of Dems who are complicant in this crap.. they need to go, and the "two party system" needs to be shot in the head, once and for all.

You say you want the "immediate" problem of Repugs being "in control" to be removed, but use a false dichotomy.. You CAN get the Pugs out and Dems in as "majority", and STILL have the "overall majority" NOT aligned with either party.. That is, your example in a different thread where Pugs "kept the majority" despite the "overwhelming numbers not being Pugs" was ONE possible situation.. Another is, lots of Pugs replaced with Independants instead of Dems.

Again, part of the problem is you are stuck in "2 party" mode. Some of us don't see a whole lot of difference between "most Dems" and Repugs these days. Getting them BOTH out, and getting in people who will represent their districts.. now THAT is what we need to do. Screw this party crap. When the "majority of votes" calls for a rules change, the Pugs can go to hell, despite their "being the most seats of a party".. In that, when 75% of Congress demands new rules, the 25% that are Pugs can't do much about it, now can they? Unless our country is no longer a Democracy (well, we know it's in it's death throws, but still).

People in Congress are supposed to be PEOPLE who are representing PEOPLE.. not "a party member" who is likely "representing the party".. That wreaks of "corporate mentality" all over the place.

Dredd, it's misleading to say I "...want(s) to write speeches for a Democratic candidate this November."

I volunteered to help Clint Curtis, specifically, and not because he's running as a Democrat. If he were running against Feeney for the Republican nomination instead, or as a third-party candidate, I'd be no less willing to help him. In fact, my first posting, after I heard Clint was running, urged him to prepare to run as an Independent in case he loses the primary.

My offer was predicated purely on a wish to expose Feeney, the software prototype request from 2000, and the murder of Ray Lemme.

Exactly, savanster.

You need to get your head out of your ass about the democrats being perfect or seeing things in party loyalist eyes.

Same for the republicans and "their" party.

I know a few republicans who are not corrupt and do good work and strive to do their best, they are conservative like Curt Weldon or what not. But most of them are in on the scam.

And on the other angle, the democrats have a situation that mirrors it. Most of them, the leadership are in on the scam. And there's a lot of good independents in the democrats too who ultimately don't belong there. But they stay anyway.

And they, the good people in both parties are scarce. But they are important and they do the job and its going to be their help which puts the THIRD PARTY nationwide period....

I've seen enough on this scam to know the 2 party system is finished, and its being hoodwinked by neocon fanatics on both sides.

Its rotten like savanster says....that's why we "left" that system and instead we're prosecuting everybody and going after the REAL traitors.

It all comes down to who you work for, not what party you're in. You either work for america or against it, and all the ones that have chosen to work against it are going down to hell.

I've seen conclusive proof of how they did the Election Fraud. I've heard and seen that Dr. Piotr Blass is a real person, he works for a very evil place...he does not work for the USA. And Dr. Blass and his friends, which I have seen proof of did the fraud. And it goes in both directions.

Doug E.

Yeah, and the neo-cons are laughing all the way to our bank (the treasury), too

Savantster #45

I said to Doug "nobody besides you believes that independents are going to take the majority in the senate or the house this election ..." and you said "Actually Dredd, I'm with Doug".

Ok, so two people believe that "independents are going to take the majority in the senate or the house this election".

You should link to polls to support your assertion, otherwise you are saying "trust me". That has been coming from a lot of places recently, but none of them places I can trust.

Here are some links to recent polls to support my premise:

"Dissatisfied with the nation's direction, Americans are leaning toward wanting a change in which political party leads Congress — preferring that Democrats take control, an AP-Ipsos poll found. Democrats are favored over Republicans 49% to 36%." (link here).

"In an ominous election-year sign for Republicans, Americans are leaning sharply toward giving Democrats control of Congress, an AP-Ipsos poll finds. Democrats are favored 49 percent to 36 percent." (link here).

Now, supply me with a link to polls of equal quality that show "independents are favored by Americans to take over congress from the republicans" as you have asserted.

RLM #46

My poll links in #49 show that your volunteering to do writing for a democrat is in accord with the wishes of the public.

Doug and Savantster are not lazy, they would take on what appears, by the facts, to be a herculean task. They are barking up the wrong tree this election.

I do not care as much for political parties as I do for America, so I will support the public will and go along with democrats taking the majority.

I feel I would be letting America down if I went for a pie in the sky effort this election.

Dredd All of us non party loyalists do all the god damn work in this country. And less than a month ago was a poll on CNN, and Lou Dobbs which showed 80% favor the third party.

So when it comes, it comes just like it has in california or virginia....and you will not stop it.

Doug

Doug E #51

You have no link so you attack me by saying "you will not stop it".

No, as my poll links show, Americans will stop it. And by the way neither the senate nor the house is in "california or virginia", they are in DC.

It is the republicans who are against the public will these past years, and your effort is too. You are closer to the republicans than the democrats.

I merely cite the public will by a valid link or two, and they support the democrats to take over the majority. The public does not, in this election, support the independents taking over.

You need to remember intellectual honesty in this matter.

Doug E #47

Ok, so you did a disertation about who is good and bad. I have not been pontificating about the morality of congress in the sense of taking inventory of their character for this election.

What I have been talking about is the fact that EACH and EVERY committee in congress is controlled by a republican, which means they are the chair, and that EACH and EVERY committee is populated by a majority of republicans.

Neither democrats, independents, or any other party have ANY chairmanship or majority population in ANY congressional committee in the senate or in the house.

Your strategy will only lead to a different minority, independents, in place of democrats, and let the republicans continue their disaster. It is simple election reality that the public will not vote independents into the majority this election.

My strategy is to put democrats in the majority (which is what the polls show the public wants) and stop the republican dictatorship. This can be done.

Then impeach the president and vice president. The republicans are not going to do that as long as they are the majority party.

In '08 I will work with you to put independents in place of republicans and democrats, so long as it does not jeopardize the equilibrium and let the republicans take over the majority again.

I have to agree that taking back control is the primary object of this election. While I too would like to support an independant party - particularly the greens, I don't feel that such support would be productive at this point in time. The main object right now is to overcome the repug hold on our government. Third or more parties need to be persued in the future.

Dredd #7 A good example is "Screaming Sue" who couldn't undo here Caps Lock key and hung around here until she was exposed.

Big Dan #20 One of my favorite Curley lines "I'm trying to think but nothing happens." Quite appropriate to *.

BlueBear2 #54

In '08 I will work with you to put greens in place of republicans and democrats, so long as it does not jeopardize the equilibrium and let the republicans take over the majority again.

The republicans had their chance and screwed things up royally ... I really think greens, independents, libertarians, and others, can do a better job ... so long as republicans are not in the majority.

Dredd: Thanks!

Dredd They took a number of seats in congress and the public has overwhelming support for the third party. 80%, it was on CNN.

As for which party I'm closer to its not either one. I am independent and as such I back independent candidates regardless of where.

Doug

I also oneself something would want to find out on this theme. Very attentively I will read every post.