These people have their heads up their asses and somehow believe they're seeing hallowed ground. It's a miracle.

Hallowed ground=we're free and proud Americans=we'll seriously fuck with you if you try to live by the rights we say we're here fighting for and protecting.

All with absolutely no sense of irony, hypocrisy, or inconvenience.

We're too stupid.

Nature will select for other, more conscious beings.

I'm sick.

Turns out that's one of my carpenters at the center of the angry mob. Local 608.

They lost 18 men in routine duty at the Trades on 9/11, were part of the first wave of recovery responders on site and among the last to leave six months later. It would take volumes of words from a far better writer than I to describe the kind of heroics we saw from Local 608 after the attacks...

They daily navigated sixteen acres of raging chemical fires, twisted steel, body parts, and a haunting smell that never leaves your memory long after it leaves your clothes. They worked in, around, and under 10-15 stories of towering debris and dead neighbors arching over their heads. They suffered ground-quakes, intense heat, sirens, constant evacuations, subway tunnels collapsing, and a nuclear winter drizzle of glass, paper and ash...

The Spire of Tower 1 had fallen from over a mile high up in the sky, spike down, puncturing Vessey street creating an enormous open crater that made that area impossible to traverse; there was no vehicle access for days and weeks...

A little-known fact at the time - the Hudson River was threatening to break through the compromised slurry wall at the southeastern tip of the tub and flood all of Lower Manhattan...

But Local 608 went in anyway, in spite of knowing all this, and built us these stunning, complex, wooden footbridges around the rubble that made it possible for us to move around the pile with supplies / emergency crews. It was astounding. I came back to the site once after being gone for 12 hours and it looked like Ground Zero had sprouted a boardwalk!

Didn't know it at the time, but I might've witnessed the last, best, dying gasp of the great, silver-back municipal unions. They bought (and let me distribute) the only real respirators we ever saw down there. They had Charlie, from OSHA, looking out for us - with stern warnings about proper precautions (Charlie the most haunted among us, no doubt, understanding what kind of long term health issues he was handing out each day with the job slips.)

The Carpenters took care of their own - cut checks immediately to their widows and childrens' fund, sent out memorial plaques, and then set about the business of taking care of everyone else. They helped us supply all the other unions, including the FDNY and NYPD, who were hurting beyond belief thanks to bad contract negotiations with that pucker-hole Giuliani and his corrupt underling Bernark Kerik.

The rest had nothing. The carpenters gave them everything. Makes blue-hard-hat fella (if he was even there for the clean-up) even more of a tool...

GodImsosad.

Funny how ideology can show things in a different manner to different people. I see a man walking through the crowd, a lady approach him and say something before walking away, and then the man becomes belligerent and provocative, cursing, etc. The hard hat dude approached him and said who knows what. And other than that I see a bunch of people exercising their right to protest, mostly harmless looking middle aged folks, you know.. the ones who are so evil.

No imminent possibility of violence. No story here.

How did such proudly ignorant fools become the main voices of America? They are desecrating Ground Zero with their vile UnAmerican behavior.

Wow! Dissent is vile and un-American. I guess everyone should just STFU and be a good little bot

If you were wondering what the face of fascism looks like, you saw it here. The guy in the white hat had it only partially correct. The people he challenged are dangerously ignorant. They are themselves the victims of the subtle anti-Muslim and anti-Arab slick propaganda that has been imbued into American culture through, films, TV pundits and political opportunists for decades.

Assuming the Bush regime official theory was correct, these morons have conflated the actions of 19 hijackers and al Qaeda into "all Muslims" and "all Arabs" attacked us.

One would hope that their stupidity could be exposed by pointing out that Tim McVeigh was a Christian terrorist. Should we be protesting the building of churches on U.S. soil?

Disneyland ordered Muslim employee to remove her head scarf.

I could care less if they build their mosque at that site. I think it's in poor taste and unnecessary and I understand peoples opposition. But hey, they have the right. About your example, Tim McVeigh didn't blow up a building to further the cause of Christianity. One would hope the left extremists could understand that.

You routinely conflate the actions of a few Republicans into an indictment of "all Republicans" and "all Conservatives". What's the difference?

Disneyland has every right to impose a strict dress code on their employees, they've done so for decades. As a lawyer I'm sure you knew this.

Steve @9 wrote:

Tim McVeigh didn't blow up a building to further the cause of Christianity.

Fact: McVeigh's principle motivation was revenge for the government's storming of the Branch Dividian compound.

"The Branch Davidians (also known as "The Branch") are a Protestant sect that originated in 1955 from a schism in the Davidian Seventh Day Adventists."

If one accepts the "official theory" of 9/11 (and keep in mind there are multiple competing theories to the effect that 9/11 was an inside job) 19 al Qaeda-connected hijackers were motivated by revenge for the U.S. imperial presence in the Middle East.

Thus, the motivations ascribed to the 19 hijackers under the official theory of 9/11 are strikingly similar to McVeigh's terrorist assault in Oklahoma City.

(Al Qaeda and the Taliban were the Frankenstein's monster created by the CIA when it funded and armed Osama bin Laden and his merry band of terrorists to fight the Soviets in Afghanistan. President Reagan said they were "freedom fighters" on par with our Founding Fathers. I guess we reap what we sow.)

Now you say that the mosque is "in poor taste." Why? There are an estimated 1.57 billion Muslims in the world today. Are you going to blame all 1.57 billion for an event carried out by 19 people?

Even George W. Bush had the good sense in the wake of 9/11 to stress that we were not at war with Islam--that makes this current crop of wing-nuts worse than George W. Bush, who was the worst "President" never to be elected.

Oh, and Steve, to give you an idea of the extent of U.S. anti-Muslim bias. Go back and watch the initial news accounts on the Oklahoma City bombing. They all blamed Muslim terrorists until the FBI closed in on our home-grown, Christian terrorist, Tim McVeigh.

The difference is McVeigh was a militia type who detonated his bomb to protest what he felt was tyranny from the federal government. It had nothing to do with religion and everything to do with the government (correctly) interfering with the Branch's business, which was militia related and not church related. True story, you could look it up.

I say the mosque (actually it's a community center) is in poor taste because of the emotions involved with putting it where it is going. Nothing more and nothing less. The soon to be ex-Governor offered to meet with the parties involved to find another suitable place and that offer was declined. And yet the Imam says he wants to reach out to the community for a better understanding of the muslim faith. That's a funny way to reach out IMO.

Please show me where in my post I blamed any muslims, or for that matter ALL 1.57 billion, for the actions of 9/11... You toss out charges and insinuations of racism, Islamophobia, etc. like it's nothing on seemingly a daily basis. That strategy has already failed the left on the national stage, perhaps you didn't get the memo.

Steve 2 various said:

Wow! Dissent is vile and un-American. I guess everyone should just STFU and be a good little bot

Who said "dissent is vile and un-American"? (Other than the Rightwingers when Constitutionalists and others were protesting the fake reasons for going to war in Iraq).

What's "vile" is the reaction of the crowd to the man they knew nothing about, including calling him a coward. And the organizers who had to get between the mob and the man to keep violence from breaking out. Guess you didn't (want to) hear or see that part, Steve. I don't blame. I didn't either.

About your example, Tim McVeigh didn't blow up a building to further the cause of Christianity.

And the WTC was blown up to further the cause of Islam? Where did you get that idea?

McVeigh was a militia type who detonated his bomb to protest what he felt was tyranny from the federal government.

Funny, that's exactly what al-Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden said after the WTC was blown up. They decried the tyranny of the U.S. Government.

Guess their terrorists aren't as thoughtful as ours though, eh?

What was the reaction of the crowd to this guy? One man in a hard hat says something inaudible to him and that was after the man started cursing. I find your "threat" of violence a bit ridiculous.. I didn't see any threat of violence

"He musta voted for Obama!"

These are your fellow right wingers, Steve. Be proud of them.

The difference is McVeigh was a militia type who detonated his bomb to protest what he felt was tyranny from the federal government.

Err...OBL was a "militia type," Steve. He had his own militia. His attack was "meant to protest what he felt was tyranny" perpetrated by our federal government.

You don't want to be the only black guy at a Tea Klan rally. This dude a coward? I don't think so.

Who started all this crap?

http://www.salon.com/new...ound_zero_mosque_origins

http://www.nytimes.com/2...p;src=mv&ref=general

For the record, Ron Paul also compares blaming Muslims for 9/11 to blaming Christianity for McVeigh's OK City bombing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziB4oS3

Steve @ 13 said:

I find your "threat" of violence a bit ridiculous.. I didn't see any threat of violence

Then you weren't looking. Or listening.

Crazy that the organizer of the event had to get in between and hold people away, huh?

The amazing thing about my namesake, Steve, here (and I hope no one confuses me with this troll) is that he gets his ass reamed by Brad and Ernie and he isn't capable of realizing it.

OMFG! Have you read some of this shite???

I am actually scared now. Even watching the video, I was thinking "Well this is just a bunch of racist dummies who had a day off and no money to spend." But reading the comments on Pam Geller's site leads me to believe that there is real, serious, dangerous psychological instability amongst these folks, egged on by "prophets" more maniacal than we could imagine possible fromt he likes of snake-oil salesmen like Hannity, Beck and O'Reilly. That trio only scrapes the surface of this lunacy.

I'ma locking my doors. Some of these nutjobs live down the street.

Guido said...
Hey Pam,
You want we should take care of this guy Bumithal,or Blumenidiot for yah!

Guido

Reply Sunday, August 22, 2010 at 09:13 PM Davida said in reply to Guido...
Way to go Guido, I like your style.

Reply Sunday, August 22, 2010 at 09:22 PM No Shariah said in reply to Guido...
Bada bing bada boom to shariah,too!

No Apologies
No Shariah

That was a threat and a seconded motion against Blumenthal. (Regardless of whether Guido was serious or not.) Bloodlust from these beggars.

I know, SR. It's out of hand.
I've had the shakes all day, today.
%O(*&!.

...next month's 9/11 memorial service is gonna be a carnie fest.

Maybe we should set aside a whole state for the crazy people to live in (besides Florida, I mean).
What if we gave the crazy, gun-loving, Islamo-phobe, wanna-be, Fascist-crats Arizona in addition to Florida?

Would they leave the rest of us alone, then? Or would they storm us for Texas?

...we're letting a Television and Entertainment Corp. start a Holy War on American Soil.

This just proves how straight up "ignant" Right wing types are. What's so crazy is that many of the Republican Conservative leaders they support think they are "ignant" trash types as well. Every financial policy Obama supports would help this piece of "ignant" trash more than any other group. Trash! Trash! Trash! But they are against him cause they don't want no "NIGGA" in the White House.

Jon Stewart did another excellent piece on this last night showing the Fox morning clowns with a former Bush official decrying the financial support of the mosque by a terrorist sympathizing Saudi. The foxies neglect to mention that this same Saudi, who is never actually named, is a part owner of Fox News.

And if the guy in the white headcap in this video really is a worker at ground zero, can we please make this incident the poster child of the teabaggers, Fox News, and the neocon right? It's perfect. I'd like to see it held up, with the pertinent 100% pure hypocritical facts, again and again and again.

It became obvious to me within days that the teabaggers were going to be our floundering nations' 'brownshirts'. And what better group for the Repubs to exploit, they are mad, ignorant, vociferous, and they have the guns. They have no clue how badly they are being played by the pols.
And BTW, it was Frank Gaffney who supports and i'll dare say organized the 911 get toether there. A perfect face of hate.

This is a comment from MaxKeiser.com on the same story, another angle to be considered before we get too weighed down to see clearly:

The Mad Ape
Aug 24, 2010 at 12:39 am
fucking sheep

This mosque is a pre-planned attack on the USA, not by Muslims but by Globalists.

The sheeple need to do some basic research.

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, the founder of the Mosque is on the Obama Payroll

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsXTbiINWSU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUk-f366RgM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHGLQvm2LVo

How ironic is it that the FOX News where Sean Hannity has been howling about Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf wanting “Sharia law” to replace our existing laws is the very same FOX News whose parent company, the Rupert Murdoch controlled News Corporation, has as its second largest shareholder Saudi Prince Alwaleed bin Talal?

http://bigthink.com/ideas/22891

The Globalists know that this will divide Americans and create hatred. They got us right where they want us. They are saying riot mutherfuckers riot, then we can clamp down on your sorry asses.

TMA

Thanks for your sensitive and accurate take on this whole vile mess Jeannie. I. am a fireman from a city close to NY, and while I wasn't able to work at ground zero because of a serious leg injury, our family lost someone on that day and lived through the event in a very personal way. The reason I say this is that even though I believe most victims families, if they were properly informed about the proposed center, are not bigots and haters and would not want to use their suffering as a basis for more hatred and prejudice. That said, I'm not comfortabe with putting ANY aggrieved group of victims in the position of bargaining away constitutional principles, or the rights of another group. If we do that, we're just one step closer to Steve's utopia - an angry ignorant armed mob looking for the next scapegoat to vent their hatred against, and waiting for their orders from the latest evangelical extremist or FoxNoise host.

It's amazing to see so many uninformed people so proud of their ignorance. Trust me Steve, that's the plan. Keep us divided, and keep you stupid enough not to know who's screwing you while you defend their war on 911 responders, unions, police and fire, teachers, autoworkers etc. Now that's American!

Wow, we have seen hate, and it is UGLY.

And we have seen stupidity, and its name is Steve.

(Sorry, other Steve- maybe you change your handle, add a last initial, something!)

didnt the repubs just block a bill that would of actually paid for the first responders healthcare??

isnt that what we all should be fighting about?for?

jeanie dean...u put that so beautifully and makes me proud to be married to a carpenter

worth repeating

"The Spire of Tower 1 had fallen from over a mile high up in the sky, spike down, puncturing Vessey street creating an enormous open crater that made that area impossible to traverse; there was no vehicle access for days and weeks...

A little-known fact at the time - the Hudson River was threatening to break through the compromised slurry wall at the southeastern tip of the tub and flood all of Lower Manhattan...

But Local 608 went in anyway, in spite of knowing all this, and built us these stunning, complex, wooden footbridges around the rubble that made it possible for us to move around the pile with supplies / emergency crews. It was astounding. I came back to the site once after being gone for 12 hours and it looked like Ground Zero had sprouted a boardwalk!

Didn't know it at the time, but I might've witnessed the last, best, dying gasp of the great, silver-back municipal unions. They bought (and let me distribute) the only real respirators we ever saw down there. They had Charlie, from OSHA, looking out for us - with stern warnings about proper precautions (Charlie the most haunted among us, no doubt, understanding what kind of long term health issues he was handing out each day with the job slips.)

The Carpenters took care of their own - cut checks immediately to their widows and childrens' fund, sent out memorial plaques, and then set about the business of taking care of everyone else. They helped us supply all the other unions, including the FDNY and NYPD, who were hurting beyond belief thanks to bad contract negotiations with that pucker-hole Giuliani and his corrupt underling Bernark Kerik.

The rest had nothing. The carpenters gave them everything. Makes blue-hard-hat fella (if he was even there for the clean-up) even more of a tool...
"

and no jeanie they wont be happy even if we gave em their own country cause they need tons of peops to pick on

Brad and Ernie, at long last my brothers have come home. Can somebody kill a fat calf or somethin' ovaheeah?

Albeit tentatively and with all due journalistic prudence, these 2 champions of the voting process(and most everything else holy) have, to my knowledge for the first time, cast grave suspicion on the official fairy tale about nine eleven.

I fully understand a reluctance to turn this valued site, a gem in the desert of insanity, into a hard-core advocate for the radical pursuit of Truth. It would thereby, of due course, devolve away from its essential current function.

But make no mistake, I now understand, without either of you having to beat your breast about it and give a Tarzan yell, you comprehend how badly we have been lied about that day and manipulated like lobotomized marionettes to accept the consequent blood-soaked ramifications.

This whole scene, to me, seems scripted. Hollywood. The hard hat joker is right outta Central Casting. It just feels fake. This perception only bolsters other suspicions that the entire Mosque=Recreation Center "hot button issue" is more like the Fox gaurding the nuthouse.

Nine eleven was most certainly a job of the inside variety. With that knowledge we can change the world. If we continue to fear it we are toast.

Reminds me of a security guard I used to know, who used to reminisce about his time in the military (National Guard, I believe.) He used to brag with visible pride about how he'd bust heads at anti-war rallies, because those people "didn't love the flag." Of course, he wasn't bright enough to see that he was violating the Constitution, of which the flag is only a symbol...

The not-mosque is in "poor taste" to be put "there"...? A statement like that only proves that the person making it has no idea what the hell they're talking about.

The FACTS are that the site in question is an already existing vacant structure that was once a Burlington Coat Factory, two blocks away and with no line of sight to the former WTC site. There are already existing mosques within a similar distance, and there are bars and strip clubs on the same block this center would be going into. Moreover, it's a community center, akin to a YMCA except without the horrible Village People associations.

The propaganda has convinced misinformed dupes that it's a towering domed mosque that will "dominate the skyline" right across the street from (or even on!) the Ground Zero site. That is absolutely false. What these people protest is a false image created in their own minds by duplicitous fearmongers.

When did people stop being ashamed of being played for suckers? Used to be, if you informed someone they were being lied to and manipulated, they'd turn on the ones who conned them with a righteous vengeance. Now, they double down on the lies and shout louder, as if they can wish the facts away so they don't have to admit they were wrong. Only later, when they're completely discredited, do some of them renounce the lies with a claim that they never did hold the false belief. Don't believe me? Try to find someone who admits they voted for Bush, or that they supported him. Try to find people who were pro-Iraq. Oh no, they were never fooled!

I was always taught it takes wisdom, honesty, and courage to admit when you're wrong and adjust to new information. Someone needs to tell these folks.

To the "real" steve I'll give you that Brad at least makes points and good ones at that.

JimCT speaks of my "utopia" as if he knows what my utopia is. Colin calls me stupid because I dare to question Brad and Ernie. Those are both shining examples of absolute ignorance. If I disagree with any of you fine folks here, well then obviously I'm an: "Islamophobic, teabagging, Fox News watching, racist". That myopic narrow minded viewpoint is the number one problem with America today. And it consumes the entire political spectrum.

Actually Han R, the building in question was nearly destroyed, and in fact the roof and two of the floors were destroyed, by United flight 175... on 9/11...

ok steves, enough disembling...... get a more distinctive screen name or get lost.

Too many factions already try to sew confusion.

Would it be so very difficult to add, Steve69.........or... dipshitSteve.......

come on dudes, its common courtesy

crickets on the inside job declaration so far.

Obviously I'm in no position to demand anything of the sort, but wow, wouldn't it be great if everyone responding henceforth admitted why they are afraid of accepting the truth about inside jobessness?

right wing steve

JimCT speaks of my "utopia" as if he knows what my utopia is.

Actually Jim was using the term "utopia" sarcastically. He made some specific points to you, but it was easier for you to play the victim than to respond to any of them.

If I disagree with any of you fine folks here, well then obviously I'm an: "Islamophobic, teabagging, Fox News watching, racist"

That's a straw man. Many people (not just Brad+Ernie) made specific points to you, but rather than respond you just cue the violins. Aww poor steve..repeatedly defending the bigots...that might get you lumped in the the bigots!

Please show me where in my post I blamed any muslims, or for that matter ALL 1.57 billion, for the actions of 9/11

Each time you said that it was "in poor taste" for a community center to be built in the Burlington Coat Factory, you were in fact lumping all muslims in with the 9/11 hijackers. That is "in poor taste" Steve...it is thoroughly bigoted. This bigoted attitude is the attitude that is pissing Bradblog's readers off.

Steve @ 34 said:

Actually Han R, the building in question was nearly destroyed, and in fact the roof and two of the floors were destroyed, by United flight 175... on 9/11...

Actually, Steve, a wheel from the plain fell through the roof of the building and nobody died there to my knowledge... on 9/11...

Not sure how the strip joint so near by can continue to function while knowing that. But, somehow, they bravely soldier on, revealing their naked breasts and vaginas to men who give them dollars at a time to say thanks. On "hallowed ground". Though without the luxury of the discount coats they used to enjoy before the Burlington Coat Factory was shut down...on 9/11...

United we stand.

CamusRebel said -

Albeit tentatively and with all due journalistic prudence, these 2 champions of the voting process(and most everything else holy) have, to my knowledge for the first time, cast grave suspicion on the official fairy tale about nine eleven.

Not sure how long you've been around, Camus, but it sounds like you may wish to review some of our various reports over the years on various aspects of 9/11. Though not all of the reports are categorized (since it was a year or two into The BRAD BLOG before we added that feature), many of our 9/11 related reports are archived here.

Of recent-ish note, you may (or may not) enjoy my interview with John Farmer, one of the Senior Attorneys on the 9/11 Commission, while guest hosting the Mike Malloy Show last year on the 8th Anniversary of 9/11. The audio and text transcript are here.

But there is much more for you to enjoy, or not, in the 9/11 category in general.

Part of the planes landing gear and fuselage destroyed the roof and two floors of the then Burlington Coat Factory warehouse... on 9/11 *key eerie music*.... and the point of my post, I never said anyone died there, was in response to Han who so graciously scolds people for being a sucker and listening to lies. But his contention that it's blocks away from ground zero is not really correct now is it. The building was hit by the aircraft... on 9/11.... which makes it part of ground zero

and again I'll say that I could care less if they build it there or not. But I think it's in poor taste and I understand people who were affected by it being emotional about the issue. I think they would be better served to build it elsewhere, as the Governor of the state has offered to find another site for them. And they have refused to even discuss that. That's not bigotry

It surely is bigotry steve. Muslims did not attack us on 9/11. 19 people who happen to be muslim did. Other muslims are no more guilty of the crime than Christians are guilty of TimMcVeigh's crime. This point has been made to you several times.

Lumping all muslims together with a few violent extremists IS a dictionary definition of bigotry.

My bad.

Your links are broken, and of course muslims can be bigoted just like anyone else. You seem to think that some video showing one muslim person would show that all muslims agree with you. I assure you that all muslims do not agree with you, nor do all muslims agree with one another.

But try and stick to the point, steve. When you lump all muslims together with a small cadre of violent extremists, that is bigotry. Your "in poor taste "comments clearly are rooted in bigotry.

But the good news is it's OK, you can get over this if you stop arguing and learn to grow as a person.

Yes, apparently you (or I) have to be smarter than the equipment in order to post links. At any rate they were editorials from two different newspapers written by Muslims and stating that in their opinion this building should be placed elsewhere.

Your response to them, of course, is that they must be bigoted against themselves.

I did not lump all Muslims together as you have repeatedly said. I stated that in my opinion it's in poor taste to build this center at the ground zero area. There are many other places they can build it, instead of building it at a site which was hit during 9/11. The Islamic community says they just want to reach out to Americans so we can all have a better understanding of their religion. But they're not even willing to discuss or hear the concerns other people may have? Doesn't sound like reaching out to me.

Okay, I've said my piece. Feel free to insert your: racist, faux news, teabagger, etc slam here. You apparently have nothing else

[Ed Note: Steve, have fixed your broken links. You had double "http://" in each of them. You must have forgotten to remove the default "http://" that the software puts there for ya. Other than that they were fine. Beyond that, your arguments here would likely be better served if you stopped creating strawmen. You haven't been "slammed" the way you continue to victimize yourself as having been. Speak like an adult. Offer your arguments and best opinions and others will likely do same to you in return. Thanks. - BF]

at any rate I think we have more to worry about in this country than where a Muslim community center gets built

There are many other places they can build it, instead of building it at a site which was hit during 9/11

You are defending those who have lumped all muslims in with 9/11 hijackers. You just now in the quote above associated Islam with 9/11. THESE TWO THINGS ARE NOT ASSOCIATED EXCEPT IN THE MINDS OF BIGOTS...don't you understand? This is what I have been trying to explain to you.

Feel free to insert your: racist, faux news, teabagger, etc slam here. You apparently have nothing else

Again with the strawmen and the whining. I have patiently tried to explain this issue to you, but you just retreat back to your strawmen.

Apparently you have nothing else.

Steve @ 39 said:

The building was hit by the aircraft... on 9/11.... which makes it part of ground zero

So, the Pentagon is also "Ground Zero"? And that field in PA? And all the places where they are now selling cheap 9/11 souveniers in downtown NY? Do you feel they should close the "Mosque" at the Pentagon too then?

Steve @ 40 said:

I think it's in poor taste and I understand people who were affected by it being emotional about the issue. I think they would be better served to build it elsewhere, as the Governor of the state has offered to find another site for them. And they have refused to even discuss that.

And what about those family members who believe it should not be forced to move? Why wouldn't we listen to them instead? Serious question.

I'll go ahead and answer part of that myself (though look forward to yours): The answer is because neither of them should have any say. They are welcome to offer their opinions, of course, but we don't compromise rights away. I'm glad the folks who want to build the Islamic community center haven't taken up the Governor on his "offer". Rights are just that: Rights. They are not to be compromised away. Wanna talk about slipperly slopes? There it is.

thank you for fixing the links Ed. I'll pay closer attention in the future

Well said Brad

"Only later, when they're completely discredited, do some of them renounce the lies with a claim that they never did hold the false belief. Don't believe me? Try to find someone who admits they voted for Bush, or that they supported him. Try to find people who were pro-Iraq."

Of course you can find these people, they are the same 30% who made up Bushs' approval rating. The same 30% who thinks Obama is a Muslim. The same 30% who think Obama isn't an American citizen, etc, etc.
You just can't fix stupid.

Jeannie Dean at #3, that was extremely well said and I would like permission to share that. It's a perfect example of the misdirected anger and ignorance of the mob mentality and xenophobia being spread by Geller/FOX/Gingrich and Gaffney and the like.

Please say it's ok to share your comment.

Muslims had NOTHING to do with 9/11. Zero, zilch, nada.

The entire "war on terror" is fake. Look into the '93 WTC bombing, the FBI made the freakin bomb, gave it to the patsies.

The CIA and Mossad had more to do w/911 than any muslim.

Why were those 5 mossads filming the whole event, from the very beginning, then celebrating when the towers fell? Why was explosive material found in their van?

Why were they allowed to scurry back to Israel while innocent shepards were tortured to death in Gitmo?

#48, Brad, the "mosque" in the pentagon is actually a non-denominational chapel where they can go to pray. They have different services at different times. Maybe that's what you meant by the quotes around "mosque."

Steve, I hate to get into any of the theories of 9/11--either the official government conspiracy theory or the numerous "inside-job" theories because the proponents on both sides have failed to muster clear and convincing evidence by way of an impartial but exhaustive hearing into the facts.

However, since you broach the subject while rendering one inane comment after another to attempt to justify this billionaire-funded mob's assault on the U.S. Constitution and common decency, please answer the following:

1. How many planes struck WTC-7, which experienced a sudden, catastrophic collapse in the span of 8.7 seconds?

Hint: look here

2. Were innocent Muslim-Americans amongst those who perished on 9/11 while they were engaged in ordinary tasks of employment inside the twin towers?

3. Have Muslim-Americans fought and died while serving in the U.S. armed forces in Iraq?

4. If the answer to #2 is yes, is not this disgraceful example of Islamophobia a slap in the face to those innocent victims who perished on 9/11?

5. If the answer to #3 is yes, is not this disgraceful example of Islamophobia a slap in the face of all Muslims who have honorably served in the U.S. armed forces, especially those that have given the full measure of their devotion?

@ Dan-in-PA and others who've expressed such kindnesses in response to my post:

Thank you so much. Of course it's okay to redistribute. Please do. It helps restore the voice I had but never used on the matter. I've only recently started to write about it and I do so with great trepidation (and something feeling I don't completely understand but would describe as a sort of Kissing-Kin to Guilt. Or maybe a neighbor he likes to pork. At the very least an acquaintance who'd come over and water Guilt's plants while he's away.

Never wrote about Ground Zero for many reasons, but mostly due to of the very same kind of group think that we now see curdling us there now these long, bloody nine years after; it really does something to my insides, this unscrupulous Shallowing of the Hallowed, Fouling the Human Holy...

Never forget.
Guess we forgot.

"AMERICA JUMPS THE SHARK: A WTC Recovery Worker Reacts to the "Ground Zero Mosque" that Isn't a Mosque and Isn't at Ground Zero at the blog section of my site, here:
www.jeanniedean.com

...writing this helped, but not like it usually does. Not this time.

Questionseverything (#29) asks:

"Didn't the repubs just block a bill that would of actually paid for the first responders healthcare??"

Yes, they sure did. But arguably no more than the House Democrats did first, as they *could've* passed it with a simple majority vote, which they had, but instead opted for conducting the vote under an "suspension of House Rules" which required a 2/3 majority.

The James Zadroga Bill (named for a recently deceased police officer) failed to do that: 255 yea to 159 opposing. I have not heard an adequate or even remotely justifiable reason why the Dems did that, really, except that they were terrified the Repubs would earmark the thing to death and then use those talking points against them in November. Not

Anthony Weiner (not my ex-rep, but I got to hang with him at the site of many a blown up/ crushed giant thing) is utterly engaging, smart and charming. First couple of times I chatted with him I didn't know who he was...we just told jokes.

I think Brad posted the video, but I can't find it right now in the BB archives / here's a clip Weiner's flip after the vote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7AG0ddWf9TQ

..."Isnt that what we all should be fighting about?for?

Wouldn't that be a real nice clam bake, tho'? Instead of getting together an angry mob to bully guys in skull caps, and an entire world religion? In lou of playing right into Al Qaeda's (and the Cheneys) grand masterplans to own and destroy us all? Aiding and Abetting, anyone?

Yes, thank you SO much for asking, QA - that bill would've paid for my care should I get sick (I'm fine, btw - just have a little "condition" that's exasperated by Tea-tards) - tho'I haven't been examined for health problems since 2006, which was the last time I was able to visit the Mt. Sinai WTC Medical Monitoring and Treatment Program...

It is not hyperbole when I say Mt. Sinai saved my life, once. Maybe twice. I love that place. Even now they contact me all the time and check in, see how I'm doing, scold me for not coming in more often.

Mt. Sinai would have received a bulk of the monies provided in that measure. If passed, the bill would have provided ongoing medical monitoring and treatment for WTC responders, volunteers, and responders, as well as reopened the Victim's Compensation Fund and secured long term funding for their health program / long term study.

"jeanie dean...u put that so beautifully and makes me proud to be married to a carpenter"

Are you really? Lucky! They really are, as a group, the most self possessed, capable, (and funny!) of all peoples anywheres. I almost married a few, myself! (Used to joke that Local 608 was my man.)

"...worth repeating"

...again, thank you.

JimCT (#27)~

I'm so deeply sorry for your loss. I lost a family member, too, (Flt 179) and I share your disbelief that there could be anyone who lost someone on 9/11 who could oppose the freedoms their loved one lost their life most honorably defending. This cherry-picking of amendments to back the removal of; this avenging of nothing by the raging red-meat of mobs...in my city...
..it has so many ghosts screaming at me in my head at night I wake up crying. I'm sleep-weeping.
Crazy.

Yes, I have also wondered if they really fully understand...but then I see it explained to them, and they don't want to listen. Originally I thought it was just coming from my Fox watching high school pals in the deep south who are ripe with brain-swaying and Islamo-bating. Add sweaty from eating so much BBQ.

But no, as this video suggests (and as I am experiencing in my own 9/11 circles) they're coming from a fixed place - as evidenced by perfectly analistic behaviors of our own creepy-needler here...insisting "he could care less" but won't stop the harpy-harpy / cheep cheep cheeping, getting especially if four or five comments go by without him Dominating them with his Dumb.

...fine for flame throwing and thread flaming, but outside the bad manners and anonymous internets, these fuckers are getting damn dangerous; information-immune, no impulse control or critical reasoning skills yet their rhetoric Flag-planted with Self Righteousness. Each unenlightened Idiocrat giving instant rise to another doughy, like-minded, hypocritical Bully-Pussy. ('Bully-Pussies': Bullies before they are punched, Pussies after they bleed.)

No, we can't even give them Florida.
We can't concede them anything, even the crap we don't want or need, anymore.

Sincerely don't mean to flame the thread, but since I'm really just RE-flaming it back to it's PRE-Flamed status:

@ Ernest (#50): I adore that brain of yours. I share Camusrebels' affection in response to your...um...not sure what to call it...let's call it the 'new way you're responding the issue of 9/11 Truth.'

You aim your bullet points with deadly precision.

*Correction to post #59* Flight 175/ Apologies.

Jeannie, know our hearts are with you as you continue to heal.

Wondering if you saw the Jersey Girls video, "Press For Truth"? I'm fairly certain you have....so for others edification, these four ladies all lost their husbands in the demolition of the towers.

Their initial grief and shock quickly morphed into annger and action. As I fully descend into adulthood I have used the word hero less, until barely at all and with some hesitation.

But from a day that spawned many, those ladies are my heroes. Or for english teachers i guess heroines.

Ernest. Fantabulous link!!!

So many great sites. The facts are out there.

Am curious what, on the web site you gave us, you would put into the "not clear and convincing" category.

A Muslim cab driver was stabbed multiple times Tuesday after a drunken passenger determined he was Muslim.

As he was being stabbed, his attacker (Michael Enright, a drunk documentary maker who had been embedded with US Troops) is said to have shouted, "Consider this a check point!"

now i'm sick

hopefully his stay in prison is long enough so that even such a twisted and diseased "human being" can find and accept the truth.

The facts regarding that Cabby case gets weirder and weirder. Apparently the attacker worked/volunteered for an organization that was promoting the building of the "mosque" and different faiths getting along together. Apparently he was a valuable member of the group. It sure confuses the issue even more. Maybe a drunken ptsd flashback? It still doesn't make sense, though.

and even weirder still....Enright is 21, living in that classic, mythical place, "his parent's basement".

The cabbie is a full grown man, stocky, looks like he can handle himself, in a picture from the next day, showing off his scars, pointing to one supposedly near his neck....i cant see anything.

There is another straight across his bicep, almost too straight, neatly stitched up, but looking fairly grusome.

After the "attack" cabbie locks Enright in and drives to find a cop, allegedly. Enright jumps out window, cops find him slumped over.

That's the story. It's like a comic book only with tragic overtones.

He did some volunteer work with this group in Iraqistan somewhere I believe. A regular jesus crispy. Sounds like his wires have been messed with.

1.) Woah.

Enright wrote spoofs for FUNNY OR DIE (Will Farrell's / Adam McKay's comedy channel); worked his ass off for soldiers with PTSD...made films about them.

http://www.huffingtonpos...r-slasher-_n_695878.html

Friends say they this is out of character; that he just got back from Afghanistan and started stabbing Muslim Cab Drivers..??? Must have some PTSD himself.

2) WOW!

Is Islamophobia sweeping the US (Animated)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8WO_XOOxn7c

I love the Thai Peoples. So colorful, so astute, so adorable in Rodgers and Hammerstein musicals.

(And thanks for the healing prayer, Camus!- xoxo )

...your question! Oopsy - yes, I adore the Jersey Girls. Followed their work intensely as that was all unfolding.

Far too many people don't realize that the ONLY reason that *any* 9/11 investigative commission was formed at all - Kangaroo Court though it was - was because of the pressure applied by four 9/11 Widows, "The Jersey Girls".

As unthinkable as this (still) is - Bush n' Co.'s original plan was to not even look into the largest attack on American soil at all! In fact, they *fought* it tooth and nail, remember? Then when they finally caved to it's formation after relentless pressure from the Jersey Girls (and others) they then tried to load their dice with Kissinger and other Bush Chums at the helm.
Then the super fast clean up of 2 tons of debris all sold off to 'investors' before independent professionals can test them.

"3,000 dead? Feh. Sell it off to make commemorative coins."

The Jersey Girls are THE reason we have so many contradictions on record, specifically re: what seem to be the outright lies from NORAD to the panel; instantly scorched holes in the integrity of their time line. Norad's performance (and how it was directed) is a big, big question mark on the scar tissue of our 9/11 wound - and so it should be.

That info, combined with their subsequent pressure on the purveyers of the "official story" may have been what eventually caused 2 the 9/11 Commissioners to confess to (and write books about) those pesky little problem points like facts and time lines in the volumous, but largely fiction 9/11 Commission Report.

Heroes of mine, as well.

oh, and Ms Dean, nice site w/ the stand-up and the cartoons.

wow, not only deeply poetic but a

"mean motor-scooter and a
bad go getter"

just wow

Jeannie Dean & Camusrebel--I think you missed that portion of comment #55 which read, "by way of an impartial but exhaustive hearing..."

I know that it is sometimes infuriating for those who've arrived at hard-and-fast conclusions about that seminal event, but mine is the reticence which comes with adhering to the scientific method.

I did not suggest whether official or alternative theories are more persuasive; simply that we have not had the fair, impartial and open hearing into and scientific evaluation which the gravity of the event demands. Until that happens, I have trouble accepting any specific theory of what actually occurred.

Ernie, I didn't miss your lawerly ass covering.

I just want to know what if anything on the site you linked to you do not find clear and convincing.

You. The man. Not the lawyer. Regardless of if any hearing took place either impartial or exhaustive. I know you, and Brad, are in favor of further investigation, hearings etc. That is great. Was just hoping you would go the next step. Maybe one day. Soon would be good.