I witnessed Stewart's interview with Mike. Stewart was right on target. If the media would begin to present this issue in a more favorable and factual perspective, more progress could be made for our GLBT friends.
Nice post!

The bigotry and inherent judgementalism of this "decent fellow" sits just below the surface and Stewart picks gently at it.

Hey, if marriage is just about CREATING the next generation, then couples where one party is sterile should be banned, as well as all marriage after the woman can no longer get pregnant. Oh wait, but what about adoption? Well then, GAYS can definitely do that.

It all comes down to "Gays are crap that can't be trusted to raise a child."

Yes, it all comes down to homophobia and hate, just like Huckabee tries to claim it doesn't and Stewart lets him get away with it.

This is a wedge issue for the right wing theocrats, and we shouldn't let them have it. We should FORCE the issue to the point of showing the hatefullness and intolerance of those on the religous right side of this issue.

This is CHURCH versus GAYS and everybody should pick their side.

CharlieL- I agree with your general thrust but I think you should cut Stewart more slack. He went a lot further than any MSM media interviewer would likely go in picking apart Huckabee's "beliefs". If Stewart pushes back too hard he's not going to get people like Huckabee to come on his show. Even without "going for the jugular", I think what Stewart was/is able to do in these situations is helpful and revealing about the vacuity of thought behind people like Huckabee.

hucklebee says something to the effect that"it's voters that have decided"

bs...the same crooked machines that give neo cons wins in dems strongholds "decided" in california to ban gay marriage

copy and paste from bbv follows:
Bev Harris
Board Administrator
Username: Admin

Post Number: 10244
Registered: 12-2004

Best of Black Box? N/A
Votes: 0 (A keeper?)
Posted on Monday, December 8, 2008 - 8:29 am:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is a link to a (large) Excel file containing 10 time slices (a sequenced set of detailed results as of 10 different points in time) for Proposition 8, the anti-gay rights ballot issue:

http://www.bbvdocs.org/C...2008-Nov-CoCo-Prop-8.xls
(9,656 KB)

It shows significant anomalies in turnout figures. A total of nine precincts have more ballots cast than registered voters.

yea mike when u can count more votes than voters u can "decide" just about anything,anyway u want...o and dont u dare "ask a question" or they will arrest ya

charlie said,
"This is CHURCH versus GAYS and everybody should pick their side. "

this thinking is as dangerous as the neo cons bigotry,all us church peeps do not think the same any more than all gay peeps think same

i was raised Christian and sent 5 kids to church school and i have no need or reason to take rights away from gay folks...dont paint us all with same brush

u have been conned into thinking the public "voted" the way the neo cons have reported it,dont be fooled and let them further divide us

Charlie:

This is The Churchies vs. The Constitution. Everybody has already picked their side. A lot of people are fighting the wrong fight. It isn't about gay and straight. It's about the Constitution.

Everybody:

I'd like to remind you that political parties make hay out of all the polemicizing done on this issue that is actually and plainly a non-issue, the gay/straight polemic is a false one and is used to fuck EVERYONE. So both gay and straight progressive rabies is outright self-defeating.

I'm not wrong.

Stewart should have just kept responding to Huckabee, "READ THE CONSTITUTION." End of story.

"GOP decent fellows" are as common
as broccoli-eating rottweilers.

@Agent 99: Very good point. I will keep that in mind in future posts.

@Karen (#5): Hey, no problem. If the church you go to and send your children to has come out in favor of the Constitution and the right of Gays to Marry and has promised to stay out of taking a position in favor of any political candidate and has pledged not to spend any church money on any political cause or party, then hey, you are AOK with me.

And hey, even if the vote was rigged in California, I suspect that at least 40% of the voters DID support Prop 8. In general, you can't steal it if it isn't kinda close, and the bigots and haters made it close enough to steal.

On the point of "churchies" versus "gays":

Let's not lump all people who go to church together as "Churchies" and assume that they think and believe the same way that some mean-spirited, dogmatic fundamentalist nuts do. They are not the mainstream of Christianity in this country, and I'm not even so sure that Christ would claim them if he came back today. After all, Jesus was a liberal Jew. He hung out with tax collectors and prostitutes and all kinds of people who were social outcasts. As my wise, gay brother said a while back, "Jesus came to save us from sin--not to make us all stupid".

The best moment of the interview was when John asked Mike to tell at what moment of his life he had chosen to be not-gay. I think he should have stayed on that point for a while longer.

Some years ago for a while, I was proud to be a Lutheran in the ELCA synod. The ELCA synod adopted a resolution that affirmed and celebrated all loving, committed relationships--all couples, regardless of the gender of the people involved. I was proud of that. ELCA Lutherans are "churchies" but they would not support Huckabee.

My current church is UCC--same as Obama's. We until recently had a fabulous lesbian pastor for 12 years. We have some gay members, and many Lesbian members, right along with many hetero families, etc. We all get along fine and love each other for what is best in each of us. That's what a really good church is about--love and community and support--a place where you can be your real self and not hide who you are. I never thought I would be a "churchie", but now that I am in the UCC, it's like owning TIVO. I can't stop raving about either of them. And we have many some members who are avowed secular humanists. We celebrate them as well.

"In the love of truth",

John

Wisely noted: "...the gay/straight polemic is a false one and is used to fuck EVERYONE."

99--I could just kiss you for that statement! YES! Once again, the ol' lie, cheat, divide and conquer tactics that have worked so well for the riggers in the past; the very methodology we were all so terrified would be used on us again in the general election--have wormed their way back into our national lexicon, grossly distorting our own collective psyche. And once again, they are proving very effective. I swear it makes me throw up in my mouth a little bit every day.

Charlie L.~ I hear you. But if 40% of the overall CA population wants to amend the constitution to legislate bigotry--well, fuck 'em. They're STILL a minority and they don't get to make that call. That is a far cry from where we stand, today.

If this proposition had been defeated it would've been the death knell for this atrocious attempt to kill civil rights in this country--and ES&S and the Mormans and billionare psycho Howard "I'm all for executing homosexuals" Ahmanson Jr. just couldn't have that.

I'd like to second karen from illinois' links and comments re: Bev Harris' time slices if you all haven't given them a look-see. Just. Effin'. Incredible. Votes missing/ votes shaved/ votes disappeared (I don't have to tell you fine people what they do) but Bev has some startling proof.

I'm doing everything I can to get that info (along with the incredible work of our own Velvet Revolution's Emily Levy) directly to the millions of right-minded Americans who are sickened by this prop 8 travesty. Nothing is more important than making sure we don't all fall, once again, into the fallacy of the "gay/straight polemic". Prop 8 wasn't passed by 70% of African Americans, or the Latinos, or the less educated--nor was it the lack of momentum from the "no on 8" organizers that blew this whetted whistle into the scum bag vortex of our shamefully gamed elections. This election needs to be investigated.

If I'm not mistaken, I believe we have TWO DAYS until this election is certified by the California Secretary of State. I strongly urge my fellow BradBloggers to join Emily Levy and call for Debra Bowen to investigate this boondoggle before she officially puts this one on the books.
And tell your pals.

John Dowd

I said Churchies vs. Constitution. I meant it as in all the fanatic anti-gay people who claim religion.

The thing I hate the outright most about "progressivism" is the hair-splitting and flame-outs and long episodes of holier-than-thou-ism over things involving race, religion, sexual orientation, what-have-you. I about can't stand to visit most liberal blogs anymore because people are practically orgasmic with pointing fingers at others over this stuff.

I MEANT RELIGIOUS ZEALOTS WHO ARE NOT REALLY CREDITS TO THEIR RELIGIONS, OKAY?

Fuck.

They want the Constitution to mandate their "religious" beliefs. Others just don't want it to include "icky" people. The Constitution is the Constitution. It means Everyone. Everyone here.

We are killing and starving millions of people across the globe.

We are one of the major causes our globe is becoming too hot.

The plutocrats are eating us.

These stupid hissies we pitch over matters of much less import, meaning ourselves, our own comfort, have got to stop.

Our Constitution protects our religious freedom, and our rights. The government has screwed with it royally, but in this instance, the courts have been ceding left and right that the Constitution definitely means gays too. The COURTS are going to fix this.

Most of us voted for Obama because he said he wanted to be everybody's president, to bring us all together. Well, he appears to be trying to bring us all together behind more war, though it is starting to look as though he means business on the clean energy thing. Those have been his only righteous appointments... and they were probably wrested from him --- by Gore --- long before he was elected. He's making some awful "choices" and we need to be on his ass about important things that have huge ramifications for all Americans, all humans.

So lets please stop pissing about good religious people and bad religious people, and homos and heteros, and legals and illegals, and banning the guns the brave guys are going to need to defend our sorry asses.

Don't get wedged by wedge issues. Don't do the fucking wedging with this harping on something that is dirt certain to bring out the wingnut trolls and the fucking tedious flameouts.

We've been there. We've done that. Get some new ideas.

[And, thanks, Jeannie, that was sweet.]

Did I mention that voters don't have the right to break the Constitution?

I feel sure I should have mentioned that part....

charliel,
i was just trying to point out when the neo cons want to start suppressing rights,they pick an unpopular group and start there,we shouldnt fall into same trap...

it is the neocons vs the rest of us

jeanie dean is absolutely correct in the election should not be certified.....and dont bet they have to be close to be able to steal em charlie..remember new hampshire,obama up by 12 and loses by 3....i dont consider 15 point swing close

99. You crack me the hell up.

You are so right. Constitution, baby, constitution. The rest of it is so.........zzzzzzzzzz

Y'know?

I thought Bowen was one of the "good guys." Wasn't she part of the SoS project? What happened?

Are they just thinking that by allowing Prop 8 to be certified and accepted as law they will have a good fundraising mechanism? A good way to motivate and keep the left working for the cause?

John Stewart and Larry Wilmore just finished a skit that totally buys into the "blacks passed Prop 8 and are anti-gay" myth.

Sad.

i was lucky to be a stay at home mom. because i had so much time on my hands i served my church for easily over 20 hours a week for more than 15 years. when my two good friends were looking for a church to hold their commitment ceremony i offered up mine. after talking to the pastor & the other leaders about this i found out just how far their so-called christianity went. i was denied permission to use our building for this event...

i lost my religion at that point. i've since looked for every oppotunity to help anyone in need in the name of love & fairness, not any particular religion.

as the pendulum swings in 1 direction, so it must swing as far in the other direction. think of women's sufferage, the equal rights movement, etc. these things take time & cause the players great pain & losses on many levels.

the truth will out. hopefully our constitution is still intact enough to give the judcial "powers that be" the tools needed to bring this cause to the light. & in that light i hope the fear & hate mongers will be exposed for what they really are: cowawrdly lying bullies.

That was the best use of reason and logic I've seen in a long time against the brainwashed. Thanks Jon!

Oh yeah, and it was polite too george senior.
Eat shit you drug runner!

I'd even go so far as to say I'd forgive all the nsa spying compromised congresscritters, if they'd just get back to the Rule of Law and expose what needs to be exposed starting with 9/11.

[ed note: Spamming the threads is not commenting. --99]