It's time to start sitting down in the streets, period!

What are progressives doing to ensure a legitimate vote this november?
What plans to the democratic party leadership have in place to ensure an accurate count?

Business as usual in the world of electronic voting.

Burn the machines!

Jim #2

Two questions with apparently no good answers.

Here's what gets me: We know this is happening, and what's being done about it??? We used to find these things out 2 years afterwards...now we got so good at detecting it "real time"...we can point it out "real time" which is a step forward, a huge step forward...but what's the next step besides just pointing it out??? All that's doing, is we know we're getting screwed right now, instead of finding out 2 years later!

That's why the Busby/Bilbray election is so important. This would've been detected 2 years after Bilbray was serving, like Bush. Now, we can see these things and point them out right now...Where is the DNC?????????

Where's the DNC and all the rich actors with the time and $$$ to help???

A guy could almost predict this happening...

they better figure out who is responsible for this

probably a couple of Leadership Institute grads I'm sure

You've really got to watch this!!!

How to hack a Diebold Voting machine

Enough said!!!

Peace

I think it is a given that Poll Watching is probably not in the present DNC budget for Nov. I'm not sure how to go about it but why couldnt the independent E Voting Fraud groups get together and train,organize and deploy poll watchers under a separate banner. The League of Women Voters has a long history of such activity. The NAACP and other civil rights groups also were very active in past decades . I'm sure there are legal issues that would have to be considered. It appears Mr. Obrador used this strategy to some effect in Mexico. Even if the DNC does deploy watchers can we trust them?

I think it's about time for another Boston Tea Party or better yet a Boston Voting Machine Party.

Against my better judgement. I've volunteered this year to be a poll worker. If I see these sort of things on the day of the vote, I'm willing to take a sledgehammer to my machines. That should get a little press (not to mention jail time). But I think it will be worth it.

Brad,

Problems reported in Conneticut too.

From article:
Though polls open at 6:00 a.m. sharp, Davis Street didn't open until 6:35.

"I found no voting booths open," said Dr. Herbert Sacks. "That's the first time in thirty years that anything like this has happened."

"A lot made an effort to come out early," Garner said. "We have commitments and those would not allow us to be here on the other end of the day."

"There are people who commute distances to New York and are due at work, they take the train to be there at seven and don't get back into town early enough to vote, so it effectively disenfranchises them," Lyndee Gold said.

Updated throughout the day.

#11
Let us know where to send bail money. I must admit ignorance in asking, what is the procedure for volunteering to be a poll worker? Probably varies from state to state?

This is very, very disturbing... Even more so because as most have pointed out it's not so much people crying foul and then finding out years later they were right. We're finding out right now... as it happens. I'm with a sit in or some protest of a peaceful accord. This has got to hit the tipping point long before novemember elections. Otherwise facism is here to stay =p

Listen to Webster Tarpley on Mike Malloy's 3 August show: HERE. You can skip through all the commercials, and the first couple segements of the show, but Tarpley was on for two and a half of the three hours of the show.

It won't take too much thinking after listening to this to parse why this is happening to Cynthia McKinney.

Gary Parsons #10

Maybe David Letterman could do one of his Will It Float segments with a voting machine!

It's really QUITE simple.

The people of McKinney's district in Georgia will either have to take matters into their own hands, or she is done. Her people should be on the phones right about now, NOT just telling people to go vote, but telling people to be prepared to FIGHT IN THE STREETS if necessary. "Inciting to riot?" Perhaps. But, you know what? It's about all that is left.

The DNC will NEVER come to her aid --- they HATE her. She represents radical progressive thinking and they are scared to death of that.

The "rich Hollywood people" have been advised to keep away from ALL the major radical causes or risk their careers' destruction.

The fix is in.

All this is awful, but I can't help thinking that if we had a wooden box with a slit & we stuffed our hand=written votes into it ourselves--they'd still game the results.
This HAVA thing is just a way to game the results AND make money at the same time.
The reason we have total corruption in government is because the risk is worth the reward.
They don't get punished, the citizens forget.
Every system we have is totally corrupt. Media, judiciary, police, lawyers, politicians, churches etc.
This massive corruption did not spring up from nowhere. It's roots are here, with each one of us.

Old fashioned things like personal integrity & responsibility still matter in a big way to our civilization.
Without these values being agreed upon, upheld, & adhered to by our society for real, we have chaos.

For eg., some want our elections to be honest.
That's good.
But do these same people cheat on their taxes, rationalize their own wrongdoing, & generally enjoy "gettin over on the man" in all it's forms?

Personal corruption & massive corruption are inter-related.

How do we fix THAT?

Watch this one closely: The final polls had LaMont ahead 51-45...let's compare the "final count"...

The MSM talking points about LaMont winning are: "the Dems are eating their own", "they're undermining democracy", "the fringe crazies are for LaMont and the DNC is afraid of them"

...GEE...I thought voting LaMont over Lieberman was called "DEMOCRACY"!!!!!!!!!!!

Big Dan #6

They are all going Here!

Rich actors are too "comfortable"...vote fraud doesn't affect them, in fact, they benefit from Bushco's tax cuts for the rich!!!!!!! Calling actors "liberal" is like calling the MSM "liberal"...it's not true...we're in this for ourselves, don't expect help from the DNC, rich actors, etc...

McKinney's district has got to take a page from the greatest American ever, Martin Luther King, and go to the streets and protest. Cindy Sheehan is also a great American patriot, too, and of course the reichwing smears her.

HEADLINES - BOSTON GLOBE

Suburbs of Boston and Boston proper toss all EVM's Electronic Voting Machines into the rivers. The Mystic and Charles Rivers become overloaded with floating EVM's - Boston Harbor is clogged with bobbing EVM's,.. the harbor has now become impassable.

Homeland Security stands down,.. the citizenry has become irate due to the lack of election integrity
and the fact that a mockery has been made of democracy. They have now taken these matters into their own hands.

Paul Revere would be elated,.. the kings,.. the barons and the oligarchy are quivering in fear.

HEADLINE: BOSTON HERALD

Local police, federalized National Guard, and Homeland Security Forces took 250 terrorists into custody and dispersed a crowd of 1000 anarchists who were attempting to subvert the general election and cause mayhem.

The 250 terrorists, including some as young as 7 and some as old as 84, were transported by cargo plane to GITMO for questioning to determine where their support was coming from.

After the arrests, the election proceeded smoothly, with Republicans winning most seats by a margin of 51% to 49%.

Democracy is dead Turk.

They don't have to go to Gitmo, Charlie. There are FEMA camps all over, right here on the mainland.

I'm a democrat that actually lives in Georgia's 4th district. I've lived in DeKalb County for over 25 years.

I have not found any source to backup McKinney's complaints of irregularities from the primary. DeKalb County govt is Democratically controlled, including the elections folks. The Secretary of State is a Democrat that has a lot of integrity. I have confidence that they are not rigging anything. I would not take every word from McKinney's camp as gospel.

And don't assume that if McKinney loses that it was because of a conspiracy from the right. I used to vote proudly for Cynthia but it got harder and harder. I don't think I'm alone. All politics is local and Cynthia ignores the district. I would like to have someone not only right but effective, outspoken but not arrogant.

SEC INVESTIGATION OF DIEBOLD UPGRADED

http://www.hotpotatomash.../08/diebold_investi.html

gk --- A major part of our complaint is that NO ONE can find any source to prove even the winners of elections in your state. No matter what your personal opinion of any given candidate, you don't live in a democracy. No way to prove your vote counted. There IS a way to prove McKinney's name is not on the ballot in one of the precincts. You're right there. Why not go look?

What precinct?

I certainly understand the issue around voting machines and the possibilities for manipulation. I don't disagree that democracy demands a verifiable vote. All I'm saying is this is not the district and the election to hang the argument on. It's a primary run-off between 2 liberal Black Dems in a predominately liberal Black District where elections are overseen by liberal Dems. Who do you suggest is manipulating the election? If CM loses its because she has been a pretty bad Rep. of the only people that get to vote - people of the 4th.

There are two things that we can do now. Stop paying taxes! No taxation without representation. I have thought of another Boston Tea Party several years ago. Glad to see it mentioned upthread. Even emailed Willie Nelson to see what he thought of the idea, and never got a reply. RRhodes is a friend of his. So if anyone likes the idea and knows someone at airamerica...She doesn't read emails. Bruce Springsteen would be good too. We could be covered on international news anyway...so the world would know we aren't pro fascism. Read TBRnews.org, Voice from the Whitehouse for the real reason the dems. aren't fighting. 100% of the senate voted to defend Israel, even though they are also doing war crimes. Agree with the comment upthread Hollywood is controlled by pro Israel/big oil people. Maybe our progressive brother and sister bloggers would get on board since they have worked hard for Ned Lamont.

You live there, call McKinney headquarters and ask. My information says that Cynthia McKinney has been a great representative, would be even greater in a Democratic Majority, that the Republicans have to knock her out in the primary or nobody will believe a Republican win in the general election. Who is Hank Johnson? How can he possibly be a better choice? If elected, will he be less likely to stand up for truth and his district? I bet he would. Would he be less likely to call the Capitol Police on their racial targeting of Congresspersons?

The Republicans have been trying to get McKinney out of office for a long time, and if you voted for Johnson, gk, you're just helping them. If you care for election integrity, whether or not you care for McKinney, you should be out there helping to get to the bottom of this, bring the truth to light. If we don't stop this stuff REGARDLESS of who we want in office, this is a dictatorship, pure and simple.

CAMERA PHONES PEOPLE!

Get pictures. E-mail them to Brad or WP.

When we go to vote in November, or any other late primaries, have your camera phone with you, or a $5 instant camera, or a digital --- whatever it takes to capture the scams.

But, alas, not all the scams are photographable. How do you take pictures of people being slipped off the voter registration rolls because they are in Iraq or guilty of "voting while black" or "voting while poor" or ???

gkelliot

Maybe you should read this:

https://bradblog.com/?p=3174

and this:

https://bradblog.com/?p=3186

so you can understand why your position might not be so popular here. If you agree about the machines, please, make a lot of noise about that. If you're just here to calm people about the stakes, I wish you'd jump in the lake instead.

Charlie L

Don't forget Voting While Democrat.

I am a registered voter in the 4th district and will be voting for Hank Johnson. I am a liberal Democrat and have voted for Cynthia every other time. I am tired of her and her antics. Hank will vote the same way she does, but won't get into all the trouble she does. As a constituent, I can say she hasn't done anything for our district but attract negative attention for herself and Democrats in general. When Hank wins we'll get to get rid of her and retain progressive representation - a win/win for sure!

I expect that all your information on CM's record comes from CM's own campaign website.

Cynthia is a flamboyant spokesperson for many progressive causes. But she she hasn't authored any substantitive legislation since her 2nd term in office when she was standing up for rural minorities against the kaolin industry in Georgia. The last time I looked the 4th trailed in federal $$/person brought back in to DeKalb. Heck, at one point DeKalb County govt could not get CM's attention on some legislation key to the county and had to hire extra lobbists to scrap up votes FOR HER DISTRICT.

A Representative can afford to author purely symbolic bills and make flamboyant comments and get into angry, embarassing situations ONLY if they first take care of the people of their district.

... gkelliott said on 8/8/2006 @ 12:37 pm PT...

The Reich wing media made Cynthia that way, and you fell for it
Wake up dude, or back to trollsville with ya

Okay, everyone!

gkelliot and leftofcenter are showing up with comments that are becoming a pattern of Rovian politics: pretending to be liberals, while dissing the liberal candidates.

DO NOT TAKE A WORD THEY SAY AT FACE VALUE.

There are massive campaigns to discredit liberal candidates, but most particularly the ones who pledge to stop election fraud. We've had a hoax email campaign against Debra Bowen in California, and this is just going to get worse. Fasten your seatbelts!

Right you are, 99. All the lies being posted here are lifted almost verbatim from the AJC-Hank Johnson (Anti-McKinney) smear campaign. For instance, the AJC has been claiming that McKinney can't get any legislation passed, ignores her own district and so on ... but in fact she has managed to pass more legislation than any other Georgia Democrat in the House. The AJC has been informed of the error by McKinney's lawyer but instead of retracting it they keep repeating it.

And they call Hank Johnson a liberal democrat while failing to mention that all his financial support has come from Republicans. Just exactly how does this qualify him as a liberal democrat? They don't explain that one!!

McKinney's website is our source for their complaints of the day but it is not our only source for information about the Congresswoman. Just to clear up the confusion.

Meanwhile, the AJC is due to publish another article about "Democrats" who "voted against McKinney" because she is a "disgrace to the party" and so on ...just like they did three weeks ago. Propaganda such as this is essential to prepare the public for a "surprising" result at the polls.

I would suggest that our anti-McKinney commenters should contact the AJC pronto! You're singing their song! and you could get your name in the paper!

But you aren't going to gain anything by repeating their lies here --- because we already know better.

And, gkelliot's IP comes from USDA in Colorado, and leftofcenter's IP comes from Dallas, Texas.

Leftifcenter must have one really fast plane!!!!

Doug, could be they have fast modems, but it's fishy.

Isn't this enough to just throw out this run-off? But then again, sleepovers were enough to throw out the Busby/Bilbray election. The LAW just doesn't matter anymore! The thing that sets us apart from 3rd world countries, doesn't matter anymore!

WP: Excellent comment. The "disgrace to the party" and shit like that, that is NEVER Dems or Dem voters saying things like that. NEVER!

With the Lamont-Liebermann election, you here "they're eating their own", and things like that. Soundbites like that are ALWAYS from the Republican Noise Machine or GOP smear artists. It's easy to detect, you just have to educate yourself.

And, then they "market" it, like it's Dems or Dem voters saying it, just like an "info-mercial" with a stacked audience, or a Bush "speech" with all shills in the audience.

It's called "democracy" if Lamont gets more votes than Lieberman. The GOP Noise Machine is shoving soundbites in the media, which do not represent Dems/Dem voters AND are not true.

Info-mercials, used car salesmen, veg-o-matic...works on idiots...

**** NO ONE *** is saying these things...

except for the smear Republican Noise Machine in the MSM, and the MSM just broadcasts it for them.

BUT......we all know this...we have to point it out, though, good job WP...

Here's some more RNM (Republican Noise Machine) media talking points: "The radical left took over the Democrat Party if Lamont wins", "Soros is behind Lamont winning", "Dem money is coming strictly from radical groups like moveon.org and Soros"...these info-mercial guys are gooooood, because they successfully get these things OUT in the MSM and FAST and COORDINATED..............

You won't hear these talking points on LINK-TV or FSTV or Democracy NOW! or the INN Report or Liberty News... There are no RNM talking points allowed!

McKinney is a hero. the ONLY politician to question 9/11. 5 years after the fact, that should be a scandal. not that she asked tough questions about 9/11, but the fact that NOBODY else has.

The Republican thugs have wanted McKinney gone for a long time and have done EVERYTHING and ANYTHING they could to derail her. With this rigged and fixed election (both the preliminary and now this run-off) they may have finally pulled it off.

The only person who can call for massive civil protest in Georgia and get people IN Georgia (and elsewhere) to come and do it is McKinney herself.

SHE must make the call. And, if she's smart (which I've always thought she is) she'll make it on the MSM (which will either ignore it, or spin it incredibly against her as an agitator and spoilsport and try to paint the whole Democratic party with the brush and try to force the Dems to step away from whatever she calls for) but ALSO make it in the blogosphere (HERE and BBV and elsewhere) where we can move it around REALLY quickly.

The internet can get her the ultimate FLASHMOB (say, 50,000 bodies in front of the Sec of State's office on Thursday) that she will need to get electoral justice.

So, here's another moment (like Busby, and Hacket before her, and Kerry before him, and Cleland before him) where we will see what our Democratic politicians are made of.

Eventually, ONE of them will act more like Obrador and less like a whimp. Surely, she must know she will never be reelected if she lets this go --- she has NOTHING to lose (besides her life) and EVERYTHING to gain (for herself and her country).

It's a long, hot, summer, and in front of the Secreatary of State's Office in Atlanta isn't necessarily where I'd want to spend a week, but if that's what it takes... (Priceline, what can I get from PDX to ATL?)

If somebody posts something like this:

"I'm a democrat that actually lives in Georgia's 4th district. I've lived in DeKalb County for over 25 years."

And their IP address says they are not in Georgia, they should be given one (private) chance to explain why, and then all their posts should be removed and that IP address banned or filtered.

The Republican Scum are getting VERY smart about using sophisticated techniques to weaken our net tools. We must fight back HARSHLY and IMMEDIATELY. It's not about freedom of speech --- it's about FRAUD and ABSUSE.

Agent99, since you are apparentley stalking me, I would like to point out that my husband is active duty military and I just got off active duty military, so I haven't changed my residency yet. Would you want to claim Texas??? I still vote in Georgia since that is where I claim residency.

And you will see tonight - the big conspiracy will be that the democrats of Dekalb vote McKinney out - hey maybe she'll move to YOUR district! We surely don't want her!

Same thing, election malfunction, is happening in the mother of all down with incumbent scum elections ... DUH ... in Connecticut (link here).

I agree with Agent99, et al. McKinney is a great patriot and representative in Congress. We don't need one LESS McKinney in Congress, we need hundreds MORE. Also, more of people like the late Patsy Mink from Hawaii, where I am from, was much like McKinney, until she died suddenly a few weeks before the 2002 election from a supposedly extremely virulent flu bug (sure, right!). The Dems just barely had a window of opportunity to replace her on the ballot with another candidate or the GOP candidate (a real turd) would have won by default.

Then there was Robert Matsui of California who died of a rare blood disease (remarkably similar to Yasar Arafat), and an expert on Social Security, and what does BushCO do a few weeks later but come out with their attempted destruction of the Social Security System. Bush and Cheney are not legitimate holders of power in this country, nor are the GOP, and it is time we all state that LOUD AND CLEAR.

Hank will vote the way his Republican benefactors tell him to. I'd say most of Cynthia's constituents surely have wanted her pretty badly, most of the liberals in the country have been encouraged by her performance. Any who care to look into the incident with the Capitol Police will find plenty of evidence that she was set up, singled out, and she stood up to it. Follow the links at the links I gave your fellow Republican-enabler above, if you have any questions, leftofcenter.

You're right, I wouldn't claim Texas either.

I think mainly 4th district voters see her temper, divisive nature, and constant victimhood approach that keep her in the spotlight as a detriment. She isn't too hot on constituent services either. My rationale for voting for Hank is that I'll get the same progressive representation, yet none of the drama. Since the 4th is one of the bluest districts in the south, I think it says a lot that even someone who votes the way Cynthia does is having problems. And, if Hank ends up being less than the progressive we want him to be, rest assured, he'll be out on his ear as well. One more thing - I have seen a lot of coverage on blogs about GOP crossover voting affecting this race. For this particular election cycle that just isn't going to happen. Local pols will tell you that the GOP had their hands full with the GOP Lt. Gov's race and once you request one party's ballot in a race, you can't go back later and request the other's. So there will be no GOPers voting in our primary tonight - they were too busy trying to vote Ralph Reed in (thank GOD! that didn't happen!)

Looks like plenty of GOPers are getting their licks in by other means, including HACKABLE DIEBOLD ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINES, and I'm not so sure many of them were hot for Ralph Reed, Mr. Up-to-His-Eyeballs-in-Jack-Abramoff, to make Lt. Governor anyway. No good getting someone elected only to be put behind bars. Whereas, it is very clear to anyone with half a brain that GOPers want Johnson over McKinney in a big way. Nice try.

#53...Agent 99
I'll give you a pass on the Texas comment. Heat of the moment and such.
#54...Leftofcenter
No matter what else, the main reason Cynthia matters that much is the fact that she got in the Bushco Admins face and the DNC/DLC Dems, concerning the official 911 story and refused to shut up. She was suspicious "before it was cool" and unfortunatly she has paid the price.

My point was, they were all getting GOP ballots to decide between Cagle and Reed, and since they picked the GOP ballot then, they certainly can't be tinkering in our run-off tonight. I agree with you on the voting machines, they certainly need to be looked into. And, if this election were going to be close, they could come into play. But since I expect Hank to win by a wide margin Cynthia will have to face the fact that she is the only one to blame for the position she is in tonight. Also, I have a question...since most people on this blog are rooting for Cynthia. How is this different from Liberman's constituents wanting new representation? Everyone seems to be for Lamont (myself included), seeing that Liberman has alientated his voters...why is it any different in our case? We want a new representative is all...there is no vast conspiracy here.

MEP, I'm mad at Texas for *, even if he isn't a native. They let him be governor. I'm also mad at them for their avidity for the death penalty and for Charles Hurwitz/Maxxam, who came to munch thousands of old growth redwoods for JUNK BONDS.

[So I wouldn't claim Texas, and gotta take Texans one at a time.]

because McKinney isnt just a politician. she is doing the work NO OTHER politician wants to do. you obviously dont get it. start researching 9/11, then you will aprreciate McKinney more.

Agent99 - something we can agree on (no offense MEP) my experience here hasn't been the most...liberating...shall we say. All I see are "W" stickers on HUGE TEXAS Ford Trucks. My husband makes me take down our "draft young republicans" bumper magnet when we park our car so that it won't get vandalized and in the district we live in - the "Democratic" rep - Ortiz - votes more with the GOP than the Dems. Plus this state is continuously cutting funding to Planned Parenthood and giving it away to faith-based "women's crisis centers." At least Kinky and Chris Bell will give Perry a run for his money this year, right?

I am also mad at Texas,more than you might understand. However it is still the home of Jim Hightower, Molly Ivans, and others who continue to fight the battle against these thugs. And if you check on Hurwitz I doubt he is native along with most of the Enron crowd, they migratated. I know many Texans who would love to send the whole Bush family back to the Nutmeg state but I doubt if they would be issued a visa. The evil is everywhere,CA 50,Georgia.........

Cynthia McKinney stepped on some big toes and is not the least bit reluctant to speak truth to power.(911) We need more,.. not fewer people of her caliber in
Washington DC. The bu$$h crime family is out to grind her political career into sawdust,.. you can not speak ill of Poppy bu$$h and Carlyle Group and not expect that Diebold EVMs would be intentionally programed
to "miscount" one's votes. Bu$$hco, the neo-cons and the warmonger fascists want this woman gone.

Video link:
Cynthia McKinney speaks truth to Poppy bu$$h and Carlyle Group
(C. McKinney starts at 18:55)

leftofcenter, I'm tired of you. It's different because Lieberman has been a war-mongering support for a criminal administration. Cynthia McKinney has been the opposite. I may not be from her district, but I know enough about her that I can state your comments about her are untrue. Republicans are cross-registering like mad to mess with Democratic strongholds. They would not have wanted Reed from the minute he was associated with Abramoff, if not before, and I'm sure a huge margin of them have been voting in the Democratic primary and runoff in Georgia.

That McKinney has been and remains a target for the right wing, does tend to make for constant victimhood, that she doesn't take lying down. Her nature is not divisive; it is indomitably for truth and her constituents. I think your temper might be a little short if you had to put up with all that relentless crap too. Instead of helping make it relent for good, it sure looks as if you'd rather be a go-along-to-get-along type in fascist America.

For Dredd and any others wondering why there is no thread about the Lamont-Lieberman race, it's because I don't yet have anything worth posting. I'm digging, but it might take a while.

If she is such a "truth to power" speaker then how come she won't work within the Black Caucus - geez, John Lewis won't even endorse her. He is a true activist - and he rings on the bell of victimhood doing it - his struggles are real, hers not soo much. She wasn't even present to vote at the VRA!!! In fact, if the 4th wasn't so liberal, she never would have been elected in the first place.

I'm sorry if you are "tired of me" but I am trying to understand ya'lls point of view - excuse me if you only want people who agree with you to post here...

sorry - should be "and he DOESN'T ring the bell of victimhood doing it."

#60 Leftofcenter

I know what you are talking about. I have the same situation in central PA.

To get back on topic, McKinney was bashed smashed and trashed after her speech concerning 911, by both parties. In view of recent MSM stories concerning the reliability of the official story, how would that speech play today? Maybe not much better, but at the time the Repubs were stacking the wood and most of the Dems were chopping the kindling. She had the courage to scream BULLSHIT. I can understand the "local issues", but to understand many of us here, many of these local elections have a potential world effect. I admit I don't know much about Hank....but I do know that Cynthia has balls and backbone. Was she always a radical? Or was she radicalized by events?

MEP

You are right, of course. I wanted Florida and Ohio and Texas kicked out of the union to start out with. Then I had to remind myself that Florida and Ohio were victimized by their Secretaries of State, and friends... and it's taking me longer with Texas because of the avidity for killing thing and that they haven't even yet driven * out of Crawford... but I'm working on it.

I know a really fiendish right winger who is a registered Democrat JUST so he can fool with the primaries, and he lived in California all his miserably long life until he finally moved to Arizona. Before he left, he clearcut the 17 acres of magnificent redwoods on his property for the cash. Some guy nearly keyed my car a few weeks ago in Oregon because of my peace sticker in the window. They're everywhere, and we're everywhere. United States has turned Us And Them.

Dirty tricksters make it worse, much worse, to bear.

MEP - good point. Honestly, I didn't think it would be such a big deal nationwide, but I can see now a lot of people look at her as some sort of champion. When compared to real champions and statesmen like John Lewis though, her veneer kinda rubs off. What really gets me is that if you say that you support Hank - which I half-heartedly do - you automatically are tarred and feathered as this GOP plant or facist something or other...when I have never done anything but vote Democratic and try to live up to liberal ideals. I am more peeved at having to vigorously defend my choices to other so-called progressives who are acting like, dare I say it Republicans! Still, it has given me pause to think of the hope that she represents to out of towners, and I'm sorry that it has to be like this. Honestly, if she could show an ounce more grace, I would put up with her, I really would. The bottom line is that Hank will vote the way she did (or we'll vote him out) but without all the drama that surrounds her. PS - thanks for talking to me like I am a real person and not the enemy.

Some time I'll share a story about my Dad and my first memory of George H. W. it dates back to the early to mid 60s and it is kind of strange. For another day. Keep swinging that spoon and banging that pot.

Winter Patriot

Every other blog has tons of Lieberman and Lamont news. I couldn't find a word about McKinney last I looked.

leftofcenter

It isn't that we don't like or want differing views. I personally don't like people coming in and making misrepresentations. If they do it without knowing they are doing it, that is workable. When they do it to confuse the thousands of people reading the threads, that's a whole other story. Sounds like you don't really know what it's like in your district, or how your representative has represented her constituency, and the rest of us. Sounds to me like you want to help get rid of one of the best fighters for democracy we have. Maybe you're related to Hank Johnson, or maybe you're just a very tenacious disinformation artist. I don't know. But why you would want to belabor your unpopular point on this thread all day is highly suspect. You've already voted.

Unless McKinney and her people have been right on top of every precinct today, there is going to be no way to tell who really won the race. You already said you agree with that. So why do you keep coming back to dis her?

Agent99 - if anyone has misrepresented the truth it is you. You said in an earlier post that nothing I said was true about Cynthia - a look at the local news outlets (and yes the AJC is a liberal one) shows you are the one who isn't right. You say there is all this crossover GOP voting - that simply, catagorically, is not true. So why keep repeating it? I am not going to start throwing out credentials for my beliefs, just as I take you at face value for yours. It does make me laugh to think that one of your reasonings why I care so much is b/c I am related to Hank - I never asked if you were related to Cynthia for your strident defense of her. But at least, I guess, that means you don't think I am a GOP operative anymore. I have already stated, if Cynthia acted with an iota more of statesmanship and produced viaable legislation (Tupak's bill doesn't count) or perhaps performed some constituent services (although she did represent urban needs in the kaolin episode in her 2nd term which I respect and applaud) then she wouldn't be in this position now. It actually sounds like YOU don't know anything about our local politics and just want to jump on the victimhood bandwagon instead of clearly delineating the need for her vice another progressive representative for our district.

I don't know why I keep responding except that I just feel the need to explain why she will lose later tonight and that you shouldn't think that it is all this vast conspiracy against her. It is liberal dems who are voting her out. I would think you would want to hear the other side instead of just having a blanket agreement...I would.

SAD {BB2 --- I corrected your post since there was a crucial typo. Not quite as sad as first look. --99}

18% of precincts: McKinney - 24%, Johnson - 76%

#69.......Leftofcenter

Thank you for putting up with our collective passion. I have an advantage on the others here. A couple of days ago I allowed myself to lose my temper. Since then the nice cute ladies in white have since increased my medication. It might take a while to get to know the crew, and you are at a disadvantage without some history. But trust me in this, the vast majority of the flora and fauna that inhabit this site are dedicated to returning sanity, dignity and democracy to this country. Hang out for a while but I would at times recommend wearing chain mail underwear. I happen to have some in all sizes for the onetime price of $99.99.

99 #15 -

I haven't listened to that Mike Malloy program yet because of the time involved in downloading, but I'll venture a guess as to the DNC's abandonment of McKinney. She's too "controversial" and they're doing some housecleaning in a manner reminiscent of the GOP. Slimey b#$%@&!!!!!

Agent 99

Is your cut still 10% of all sales? Now dont gouge, you know what they say down south, "pigs get fat, hogs get butchered" Ask the Enron crew.

Yo Lefty, i read all your posts. You seem very educated on what's going on politically however, you never seem to comment on the fact that she has spoken up to ask questions about 911. 911 was the 1st stop on the Bushit war of TERROR and has been used for almost everything he can to associate a terror excuse for such as American loss of rights, his criminal display of taking power into his own hands, as well the his oil war of aggression and torture. Just because an activist doesn't support McKinney, then this is suppose to be a sign of her weakness? Her representation is most admirable compared to the majority of sellout CONGRESSIONAL ROBOTS and ROBOT ENABLERS who have said nothing about the real issues, 911 truth, hackable electronic voting machines, and the criminal actions of the Bushit administration of which there are many.

MEP

You mean I coulda been makin' MONEY!?! Where do I sign?

Peg

Damn! That's important information on the Malloy show! I'll try to get down the gist of it, and email it to you.

Grizz

She also hasn't mentioned at all what she thinks of the Republican money backing her candidate. I agree that Cynthia was not very "ladylike" about some things, but given the givens, I would not want someone "ladylike" dealing with those issues. If leftofcenter is kicking up all this rot about Johnson going to vote the same, and if not, a sort of no-harm-no-foul attitude about voting him out, WHEN THE STAKES ARE THIS HIGH, MAYBE EVEN WORLD WAR HIGH, I'm still not happy about her motives. At best she wants the drive for truth to just go away and stop scaring her, but it seems more to me like she wants it to go away for reasons darker than that.

leftofcenter says in comment #72:

the AJC is a liberal one

Yeah, right! Sure it is!!

The AJC has shown its true colors, by printing garbage like Jay Bookman's most recent (shredded here), and cheerleading the crossover voting (Repubs voting in a Dem primary) in this so-called news piece, and by repeadedly lying about the Congresswoman's record with passing legislation, and continuing to hammer on the "McKinney slugged a cop" theme (along with the rest of the national so-called "news" media), even though the charges were probably bogus and were definitely dropped.

The LIBERAL news in Atlanta is coming from APN, not the AJC, and even though I don't live in Georgia I am certainly smart enough to tell the difference, just by reading what they publish.

Your insistence on labeling AJC as a liberal paper does your credibility no good whatsoever, and it casts doubt on everything else you have said here today.

Grizzly,

I agree somewhat - I have never had a problem with her voting record (except when she capitalizes on a civil rights reputation and then doesn't show up for the VRA vote!). Like I said, if Hank doesn't hold up to our idea of liberalism we'll vote him out too. I agree that more Dems need to speak up about BushCo's war - speaking from having prior military experience (and in the Reserves) with a spouse who is still active duty, trust me, the subject is very close to my heart. Still, I see other liberal reps who don't garner the spotlight and negative attention 24/7 who are saying the right things. Why can't she be more like them? I know I said it before, but having John Lewis over in the next district really just puts the emphasis on their differences. She would do really well as an activist for some sort of non-profit I don't doubt, if she can keep her ego in check. But then, none of them can do that, can they?

Texas was for a long time in the Democratic Party fold.

*********************

Early Democratic Dominance in Texas

From 1848 until Richard M. Nixon's victory in 1972, Texas voted for the Democratic candidate for president in every election except 1928, 1952, and 1956 (it did not vote in 1864 and 1868 due to the Civil War and reconstruction).[1] In the post Civil War era, the Republican Party had hardly any influence in the entire South, including Texas politics. Some of the most important American political figures of the 20th Century, such as President Lyndon B. Johnson, Vice-President John Nance Garner, Speaker of the House Sam Rayburn and Senator Ralph Yarborough were Texas Democrats. However, the Texas Democrats were rarely united, being divided into conservative and moderate factions that vied with one another for power.

Source:
Link

*********************

Let's not dismiss Texas too quickly,.. people are working very hard down there against bu$$hco,.. the neo-cons and the fascists. The long and difficult battle to keep - Mr. Texas Redistricting,.. Tom Delay on the ballot took gumption. In a bleak political environment as is found in Texas,.. we have to be thankful Democrats keep plugging away to turn things around. Their efforts can not be readily discounted,..
under adverse conditions many progressives put up a good fight. They should be commended. The electoral votes, in the 2008 presidential contest, from the State of Texas would be frosting on the cake. We must break up this single party controlled authoritarian Nazi cabal.

99 #78 -

Oh that would be SO appreciated! 26.4KBS makes modern internet use very inconvenient!!

Bless you!!!

Winter Patriot

All of the editorials written in support of Hank have been by Cynthia Tucker - if you can call her a GOP advocate then I'll eat my sock (and her whole career will be worth not). You really make me laugh b/c you are trying to make the AJC into this GOP-run entity b/c it is supporting a LIBERAL BLACK DEMOCRAT (just not the one you like). Seriously, instead of seeing ghosts in the night, perhaps you should take notice that a liberal paper like the AJC, a liberal columnist like Cynthia Tucker, and a liberal district like the 4th is not supporting Cynthia McKinney tonight.

Agent99 - I don't understand your dogged determinedness to make me into this dark player just b/c I don't happen to agree with you on this candidate. I would wager that we agree on more than we disagree. Can't you respect that we have differeing perspectives? How can you support the democratic process that is going on up in CT and not the one that is going on in GA?

Agent99

The typo was Raw's - I mearly copied -

A little better now:

33% of precincts: McKinney - 39.2%, Johnson - 60.8%

Hmm Where have I seen this before?

71.79% of precincts: Lieberman - 48.39%, Lamont - 51.61%

LeftOfCenter: What about McKinney not being on all the ballots? That is the topic of this article.

...and sorry, but "usually" new people who announce "I am a liberal Democrat"...are NOT...

leftofcenter

Just go read this post line-by-line:

https://bradblog.com/?p=3174

and answer me why you so tenaciously stick to this thread with your so-called well-informed opinion. I don't think we have that much in common. I think I may have made you more determined to look innocent when you realized we knew where you were. If someone who wants the administration out of power gets your read on the situation, it's over for us. Answer me about the stakes on which you are willing to gamble the lives of hundreds of thousands of people with your very-popular-with-the-right vote, and your also-popular-with-the-right means of hijacking a thread.

MEP #74

ROTFLMA!

leftofcenter: It may be true that Cynthia Tucker writes editorials in support of Hank but it is also true that neither of the pieces I linked to in my previous comment have anything to do with Cynthia Tucker. There are a lot of other people sniping at Cynthia McKinney, too --- and the longer you deny that, the less reason we have to believe anything else you say.

You say I'm seeing ghosts in the night but I am in fact showing you examples of the smear campaign the AJC (and Cox media) have been running against Cynthia McKinney and no amount of spin is going to change that.

If there are really no ghosts in the night then perhaps you can explain why Cynthia McKinney got more votes than Hank Johnson three weeks ago, and yet today --- in a race that is essentially the same as that one, except that a third candidate who got 8% of the votes is not running --- Johnson is supposedly getting nearly three-quarters of the votes.

What happened? Did half of the people who voted for McKinney change their minds --- all in the last three weeks? Or is there something else going on here?

The Diebold machines used in Georgia do not leave a paper trail and do not have any auditing system and yet I am supposed to believe that the totals they are generating tonight are accurate?

If you can give me one good reason to believe that, I will shut up --- about this and everything else --- forever and ever.

Agent 99 - I seriously don't get your paranoia on this. Especially the sentence, "If someone who wants the administration out of power..." I don't need to look innocent - I am. I am just posing a different opinion from yours (and backing it up).

Big Dan - Cynthia's camp is the only one who is complaining about the ballots - not the voters. Also, since you asked about the die bold (again, I have reservations about them too but...) Cynthia didn't complain about them 2 years ago when it was MUCH closer for her to beat out 5 opponents. Now, however she screams foul... I have followed the local coverage on it and the elections officials are looking into her campaigns complaints. However, with such a big margin I don't think it is going to matter. And PS - I understand your concern about new people saying they are "liberal" but I felt the need to qualify what I way saying...I don't know what else I can do to prove my honest intent other than showing you my "future democrat (with arrow pointing downward)" maternity shirt I am wearing (special ordered of course).

This is too funny. I've been telling everyone this would happen. When a far-left liberal loses an election, they will not accept a loss and they will say the voting machines didn't work. Or the machines were rigged.

This will become the standard for liberals. Instead of facing the fact that they lost because people don't agree with their liberal ideas, they will say they lost due to the voting machines.

lol...

Even today you have liberal nutjobs still saying that Gore won in 2000. lmao...

This is great !!!!

Another example of why "LIBERALISM IS A MENTAL DISORDER"

PS - Hey libs ... keep drinking the Kool-Aid

The bullshit quotient is getting a bit high on this thread --- and that's a good sign, IMHO.

Pro Poker: your comment is so full of disinformation as to be laughable --- and it's so disrespectful of others as to be removable.

I think we'll just laugh at this one and remove the next one, if any. I don't mind banning you, either. Just for the record, we don't put up with disinformation and we don't put up with disrespect for others. So if you want to keep commenting here you need to change your tune --- fast!

COMMENT #26 gkelliott said "I have not found any source to backup McKinney's complaints of irregularities from the primary."

Can you elaborate on that? What does a voter do, to "find a source to backup McKinney's complaints"??? After you voted, do you regularly devote time being a detective? If you "found a source for her complaints", what would you do? You mean, you WERE LOOKING FOR A SOURCE FOR CYNTHIA MCKINNEY'S COMPLAINTS IMMEDIATELY AFTER YOU REGISTERED A VOTE??? WTF???

I'm a liberal democrat, just like youz guys, and WE don't want McKinney in there...all the "signs" of shills...

The proof is overwhelming the media is a sham they teach us what their paid to let us know about. The ruling class are taking over and implementing a plan 100 years in the making. The people know and don’t care. You want to be misled Im sorry, that’s why you write this stuff even when the information is so available. Stop Watching television and do the research. Won’t find it on the cnn or fox news, why not try www.infowars.com

Winter Patriot - first, I'm sorry if I was a bit flippant with the "ghosts in the night" thing - I am just getting fustrated. But I can tell that we are all here b/c we are passionate in our defense of what we think is right, so it was wrong of me to be snide. I simply don't see it the way you do. I see the AJC editorial's board as having reached a decision on the candidates and acting on it. You see something different. That is part of the reason this is such a tragedy for us all b/c we could totally be spending this time, effort, and energy on something productive for our party. Cynthia only beat Hank by 3% last month, so the huge margin now could be lower turnout but turnout of the people who want her out, I don't know. I don't attribute it to any tinkering though. DeKalb is her strongest hold and only 53% of precincts are reporting, so we'll have to see what happens. I certainly don't want you to shut up about this or anything else, just permit the possibility that maybe there isn't any fraud going on, just a sore loser. I, for my part, will pay due attention to her campaign's claims.

Suddenly, there's lots of anti-McKinney voters from the 4th district reading Brad Blog! Well whaddya know!!! That's normal!

Getting closer - still a long way to go!

51% of precincts: McKinney - 41.9%, Johnson - 58.1%

#81.........OldTurk
Thanks for the historical back up. There are times when I would like to whack Howard Dean up side the head, but on the 50 state strategy issue he has it right. Contest the slimey SOBs in every race and at every level of gov't. Do not yield anything!!! Make them fight and spend their blood money on schoolboards, aldermen, EVERY elected post!! The story of the shift in Texas politics goes way back and starts with the demographics changing after WWII.
#89 BB2
I'm getting old and not real savvy, give me a hint.

MEP #100

Rolling On The Floor Laughing My Ass Off

The Urban Dictionary is a good place to find such things.

leftofcenter: What about McKinney being left off ballots?

McKinney election results,..link to vote count totals
(update page/for new/current results)

************************

Lamont election results,..link to vote count totals/third name down
(update page for new/current results)

Comment #93: Winter Patriot says my comment is so full of disinformation.

How can my comment be disinformation?

My comment is my opinion.

Then Winter Patriot threatens me with "banning". IF WP doesn't agree with my opinion then I will be banned. lol...

QUESTION: Why do liberals always want to silence anyone who they don't agree with? Liberals love to scream "Free Speech" when they want to voice their opinion, but when someone says something that liberals don't like ... THEY WANT TO SILENCE THAT PERSON. Or "BAN" them from their little website/blog.

lmao...

Big Dan - I read about that too, and if it is true definitely needs to be addressed. This is the latest article on all her campaign's complaints from today

http://www.ajc.com/metro.../08/mckinney_losing.html

Look, if something fishy has happened, then I'm with you, we need to find out. As of yet though, I don't think it has, I think it is her last ditch attempt to blame someone/something else for her loss. There are other races that are closer tonight and no one else has lodged any complaints.

To Comment 94
McKinney's camp claim that there were problems but the election officals, Dems up and down the line say there was no evidence. I trust Cathy Cox more than Cynthia McKinney.

To Comment 38

-"gkelliot and leftofcenter are showing up with comments that are becoming a pattern of Rovian politics: pretending to be liberals, while dissing the liberal candidates."

You have no idea how ridiculous your comment is. There is no one among my family or circle friends who would mistake me for anything but a liberal Democrat. Very McKinney like to be paraniod and on the attack.

BTW with 67% of the precincts reporting its Johnson 58%, McKinney 42%.

oldturk: what's your prediction on Lamont/Lieberman?

DailyKos is reporting

Precincts Reporting: 93.85%

# votes %
Lieberman 126,330 48.35
Lamont 134,942 51.65

#101.....BB2

Thanks for the hint. I'll pick up a copy first chance. Might help me understand my kids better. I'm trying hard to reach a different plane. Doesn't help when you type with your elbows and slobber on the keys.
Tonight is a serious night with great import, but thanks for sharing a bit of humor. If not for a smile we would all be insane or worse.

MEP - OLD,.. CRUSTY,.. NOT SO SAVVY,..

chain mail undies - WTF

HAD TO LOOK THAT ONE UP..........

(doesn't silk pinch less ?)

{These are links to sex toy sites. I don't think that's nice to spring on people... --99}

F Link

M Link

4th Congressional Dist. - Democrats
Democrat U.S. House District 4
Candidate Votes Percent
Cynthia McKinney 24,767 41%
Hank Johnson 35,756 59%
Precincts Reporting - 146 out of 167 - 87%

Lieberman is giving his concession speech.

MEP - I broke up the somberness with going and getting a Brownie Blast from Sonic - we may not have much in Kingsville, but we have those! I have a feeling lots of us are tied to our computers right now watching returns.

OMG Pro Poker you just made me laugh again!

First you say

Liberalism is a mental disorder

and then you ask

How can my comment be disinformation?

We ban people for lying and we ban people for disrespecting others.

FYI: Liberalism is not a mental disorder, but a political philosophy, an old and honorable one.

We do tolerate difference of opinion here. leftofcenter and I have been disagreeing on this very thread, and in some sharp terms, too. But that's ok. We might both learn something. That's what happens when people with different points of view try to carry on an honest dialog.

You are obviously not interested in honest dialog and apparently have nothing to offer but insults. So, Goodbye!

#110........OldTurk

Yes, but if it's comfort your looking for I would suggest hanging somewhere else. With me it's a feeling of security. They do get a bit rusty without proper care. Interested? 99 gets a cut of the take. Place your order soon they are going fast.

#114
Thank you WP, that guy was beginning to surpass the limits of my medication.

#113....LeftofCenter
Glad you hung around, could have done without the fat food comment. Now I'm doomed to make a foray. Watch out for BB2, hear he's kinky, or maybe it's his undies.

Some are calling the election for Hank -

http://www.11alive.com/#

Dan- you had asked about why Cynthia wasn't on some ballots - 11 alive is saying that some voters, who have been redistricted since the last election, didn't know they were no longer in her district when they went to vote today (some areas of Dekalb have been switched over to the 5th district). That is just one reason maybe.

It has been...interesting discussing this race with ya'll tonight - it certainly made waiting for the returns go faster. I'll definitely check out the site again...what with all the new friends I've made and all

The MSM spin on Lamont and Mckinney is about to make me hurl. Gone to find a Sonic.

Maybe leftofcenter and gkelliot should read this. Actually, maybe everybody should read this.

People coming out sounding the same as these two, pretending to be liberals, also send out mass emails full of disinformation about liberal candidates.

Why come to a thread for McKinney, and stay at it, if they had any honest intentions? Really, go to this link, think about it. It's only going to get worse by the day as Novemeber nears.

MEP #109

You won't find Urban Dictionary in the library - Click on it at my #101 post - it's a link to it on-line.

Yes we do keep our sanity around here with humor.

leftofcenter

You've got Sonic? Dang, I keep seeing their ads on TV and they look so much better than the fare around here, but the closest we have is the "Coming Soon" sign in a field about 2 miles from me.

Of course McD makes their stuff look good too - blech!

Agent99 #119

Ah yes, the IRI. Aren't they a swell bunch. Not happy to jack up the elections here, have to do it world over!

Agent99 - what in the WORLD does that have to do with this conversation? PS - I am not going to directly antagonize you by mentioning you never really engaged me on a civil level tonight, merely ducking, weaving, and snarking. Still, I guess I understand b/c you feel you are upholding a cause. I will tell you that I will make sure to watch Hank very closely and make sure he knows which way we expect him to vote. I don't think it will be all the doom and gloom you predict. I still think we agree on much more than we disagree, and that is a start, is it not? Wait, don't answer that...;-)

Here's the stats:

In the primary:
-----------------
McKinney 29,216
Johnson 27,529
Coyne 5,253

In today's runoff:
-------------------
McKinney 28,832
Johnson 41,178

So, from July 18 to Aug 8:
---------------------------
McKinney got 616 more votes
Johnson got 13,649 more votes

If 100% of the Coyne voters (impossible) voted for Johnson, then Johnson still got 8,000 extra votes from somewhere.

Just statistics.......I'm not making any claims...

http://www.sos.state.ga....ts/2006_0718/0001410.htm

http://www.wsbtv.com/pol...tics/9640750/detail.html

Bluebear2 - we were excited about the Chili's coming here...still waiting for an IHOP, but I know we'll be stationed in another town before that place is finally built. Like you, there is a sign in a cornfield about a mile away - coming soon it promises.

Agent99 - nope, nevermind. I don't know how to convince you that I am not a GOP fop...other than coming back to chat with you about another topic at another time . COuld you try and be less caustic then? I still can't believe you don't want people who disagree with you to be part of your conversation - how will you ever learn anything? Or wait, do you already know EVERYTHING!?!

In 3 weeks, McKinney's % rose 0%, and Johnson's vote total rose 50%. Is that unprecedented? I'm not an expert on runoffs. Has that ever happened before?

Big Dan asks: Has it ever happened before?

WP asks: Did it even happen today?

This result is --- on its face --- so unlikely that it underlines the point made by Donzella James in her pending lawsuit:

If the results of an election cannot be audited then the election itself is meaningless.

Agent99 can't deal with an honest difference in opinion and perspective without stooping to calling those that have a different opinion liars, and worse, Rovian. That hurt.

The only point that I wanted to make is that while you see Cynthia as only a national leader, the folks here in the 4th see her from an additional local perspective. Cynthia lost tonight not because of some grand conspiracy but because she didn't respect her district. She didn't even bother to campaign until after the primary. Don't be so sure that this election was a right wing plot. It wasn't just the AJC that endorsed Johnson - so did Southern Voice, the local gay rag. Gay marriage is a civil rights issue but CM's camp wants to horse trade. Amazing.

Comment 124

The unexpected run off resulted in heated campaigning. This was the most exciting run off in the State. The only registered voter in the district that were not eligible to vote in todays primary were those that cast a Republican ballot in the primary. The Republican side had some run off races but not real exciting stuff. I expect that this combined to increase the number of voters in the run off today.

Election law should be changed in GA to require you to declare a party when you register. But these are the current rules. Hell, I almost crossed over to vote against Ralph Reed in the primary but didn't have the stomach for it. Still, since the 4th is so overwhelmingly Dem, a Democratic candidate is only vulnerable to crossover if their democratic support is weak.

Agent 99

Thanks for that link. I read Rawstory several times a day and have for the last 1yr plus, how I missed those two, I have no excuse. And yes you are right, everyone should read them. I had run into the name and intent of IRI some where else but not with the detail and depth. Gotta love that Russian Gal, she really digs up the poop.
I have something to say about leftofcenter. I dont even pretend to have the insight that you, WP and others have when it comes to spotting shills. And I agree that as we approach Nov. the games will be buried deep and will be played for keeps. As I have stated here and elsewhere, the evil bastards can not allow themselves to be voted out of power, and will go to ANY lengths to remain at the helm. That said, many of the people I know would have sounded not much different than LofC. They think I'm "out there". I'm not talking about Righty Brotherinlaws and such, I'm talking about pretty decent people who because of denial or lack of info........have not come to the same conclusions that many of us reached long ago. The seriousness of the situation in this country and the world has not sunk in with many. I think that Nov. is the tipping point and yes we do not have time to waste. But you guys built your readership one person at a time. I've been working tdy in the BayArea on and off for the last several months. The guys I deal with are not exactly hard rightys, yet when I bring up certain subjects they consider me "over medicated". A couple of months ago I drove up to Sonoma to listen to Greg Palast, stumping for Armed Madhouse. During his talk he got everyone fired up concerning election fraud. He paused at one point after listing a raft of sins about Bush that were well known prior to 04. Then he stated that about 59 million people really voted for the SOB a second time. With a pregnent pause he left the questionn hang, what do we do with the 59 million. Granted only a % of that 59mil are hard right, but how do we enlighten and awaken the remaining %age? Call me naive or worse but all the people that would have sounded like LofC are not shills, or moles. I know you guys are really bummed about tonights results and if I heard the tube right Lamont is now in a dead heat so we may be really bummed before the night ends. But please guys dont get exclusive no matter how angry,frustrated or pissed you become.

My not-so-dear interlocutors from Georgia:

Had you not come in with such prototypical troll-like behaviors; had you bothered to acknowledge any of the information given you or the questions asked you; had you not perisisted in your offensive-to-me attitudes the live long day (well gk stopped till off work); had you made any sign of sincerity, a desire to share information, provide links to back up your assertions that Cynthia McKinney does not represent you, anything substantive at all: I might have a better attitude. So far as I can tell, it's all been a bunch of games, ones taught in certain organizations whose designs are to obliterate opposition. Neither of you has contributed anything worthy to this thread, and both of you are spreading misinformation, whether you honestly believe it, or dishonestly spew it. Lucky for you that you are sticking to your righteously-indignant postures. Those don't break the rules of discourse on this blog, however much dyspepsia you spread. Would you just go to bed now please. I don't mind admitting that your miserable attitudes have bummed me out enough for one day.

I am liberal and I don't live in Mckinney's district but really, I can understand leftofcenters point. I would not vote for Mckinney if she was running in a primary in my district unless the person running against her was a real dweeb. She would get my vote in the general election where my only other choice was a republican. Personally I don't think she has done much for the image of the democratic party.

MEP

Mayhap you are right again. I am not trying to be "exclusive" and I don't think anyone else is either. If these two are sincere, the exchange will give them an idea of what else was involved in this race, other than their opinions about McKinney's ego. If I misjudged them, then they have had an opportunity to learn things to which neither, obviously, has been exposed before. If not, they've had a fine day for themselves, making people try to keep something more like truth on the thread.

Plus, it kinda creeped me out that they both seemed to have the attitude that there's no difference --- "two liberal black dems" --- "vote the same way and if not, we'll vote him out" --- it felt racist, removed, contrived, nasty.

Agent 99
I understand and appreciate your stance, but not everyone needing enlightenment or (like in my case a sounding board to make sure I'm not nuts)is as patient as LofC has been. I make the case knowing myself. Now that you know me a little bit, think back. What do you think my reaction would have been if you or WP would have handled me in the same manner? Right now I'm so damned bummed and scared for this world and country I could scream. I have kids that think I've gone over the edge, a wife that shares some of my worries but not all and in most cases I do not discuss what I do here without great caution. It can get pretty lonely being in that kind of bubble.

That's just it, MEP. We would not have handled you in that manner. Indeed, WHO could be so patient in these times, save those who do not care, or care to implacably cast doubts? Someone with a superiority complex so impenetrable that they love to spend their whole day and evening with us deluded folk? While I most assuredly do not want to shoo off sincere people who want to communicate truly, it has long been held that trolls will not be shaken no matter how hard you shake. I shook pretty hard. So did WP. No? We will see.

I guess it was a good thing I didn't try to vote in Connecticut or Georgia. I might have been stoned by an unruly crowd.

Quoth Harvey Friedman (Brad's dad)

It is true that the majority of Americans do not know to be frightened, have been actively misled, or stay uninformed for various reasons, and it will be an Hurculean task to wake enough of us to avert even more utter disaster than we have already. You're either completely ignorant or irredeemable right now if you are not horrified, afraid, angry, ready to snap. Plenty of real information right here on this blog, links enough to keep someone busy for weeks, learning, and, yet, I didn't get the impression that either one of them clicked on even one link, even bothered to read Winter Patriot's piece on the smear job McKinney has been getting in leftofcenter's right of center newspaper. Plus, both popped out of the ether and onto a thread about the woman they voted against. No previous posts.

I don't think their reasons were honorable.

Now, Jo-Joy posts here, and she says she wouldn't vote for McKinney against another Democrat. So, I believe she was honestly stating her opinion, without ulterior motives. I would vote for McKinney against Johnson any day of the week.

This has got to have been an exhaustive-enough explanation of my position on the matter. xoxoxox

99 Yes, I get your drift and agree, just wish there was a better way. I know its been a long day, hope it ends on good notes and positive thoughts.

Yeah! Pink Floyd! David Gilmour... really loud!!!!!!

I am outraged. Huffpo nasties claim there is no proof that McKinney's name was NOT on ballot. There must be photos from peoples' cellphones.

http://www.ProgressiveIndependent.com has threads on the voter suppression as well as the Diebold vote rigging and the LACK OF McKINNEY'S NAME ON MANY BALLOTS.

I hope that Bradblog will focus on this and the silence from Howard Dean and the DNC.

I think, Lena, that if the information is to be had, to be found, you can count on this blog mentioning it. I find it hard to believe that Cynthia McKinney, browbeaten for so long with this sort of stuff, knowing the Republicans were out to beat her any way they could, wouldn't have been ready for just about anything today. This evening's results were outright weird. There is some rumor that people who thought they were in her district had, in fact, been redistricted, which MIGHT account for the problem of her not being on their ballots when they thought she should be. The Republicans have been avid about that! We just need to wait for some real information.

WP: Am I right, on my calculations? They look good to me...Johnson got about 50% more votes 3 weeks later, and McKinney got about 0% more. Is that normal in run-offs? Johnson got 13,000 more votes (50%) than 3 weeks ago. That looks strange to me. That means, 13,000 people, who didn't vote for Johnson 3 weeks ago (let that sink in), voted for Johnson. Out of only 70,000 voters? That's humungous! That's not out of millions of voters, that's 13,000 out of 70,000 voters! That' is a huge %.

Let me know if my calculations are faulty.

comment 106: What Dems? Do you have any links to Dems that said there were no problems???

In statements above, it said the 4th district is mostly black. GK & Lefty, are you black?

Using rounded numbers, from July 18 to Aug 8 Johnson received 13,000 more votes to ZERO for McKinney. Coyne got 5,000 votes on July 18. Let's assume the absolutely CRAZY assumption that all 5,000 Coyne voters 100% voted for Johnson. That means 8,000 people who did not vote 3 weeks ago, walked in off the streets 3 weeks later, and 100% voted for Johnson...along with 100% Coyne voters voting for Johnson. And I'm assuming all Democrats, because this is a Dem primary (is that correct?). That means 8,000 Republicans didn't walk in off the street to get McKinney out of there.

Can someone verify these numbers?

Big Dan: there's no need to put the same comment on multiple threads.

As far as I can tell you are right about the vote totals, and about much else as well ... but your analysis is missing something and that is "crossover voting".

In Georgia they have a system known as "open primaries", which means that a Republican can vote in the Democratic primary (as long as he doesn't vote in the Republican primary) and a Democrat can vote in the Republican primary (as long as he doesn't vote in the Democratic primary).

It is entirely possible that the extra 8,000 or 13,000 votes that suddenly appeared for Hank Johnson this time, even though they were absent three weeks ago, could have come from Republicans crossing over to vote against McKinney. We had some commenters on this thread yesterday who swore that this wasn't happening, even though they admitted that they were far from Georgia. Believe them if you wish.

It is also entirely possible that the extra 8,000 or 13,000 votes for Hank Johnson came from nowhere --- just a little tweak in a flash memory card would do the trick. And without a paper trail, without an audit system, we will never know.

IMO McKinney should take a page from Donzella James and contest this election on the grounds that its result cannot be audited --- but instead of contesting it in a county court, she should take Dredd's suggestion and file in a larger jurisdiction, where it could do a lot more good.

OK, that was my question. Are Dem primaries in Georgia open only to Dems? I did not know that, but I said I didn't know that for sure.

So here's my question WP: How did Johnson get 13,000 to ZERO votes for McKinney, from July 18 to Aug 8. Is that a good question?

Thanks for the clarification of Ga. runoffs. I am definitely not an expert. But, I don't need to be, to post true statistics.

How did Johnson get 13,000 votes in 3 weeks, and McKinney ZERO? I just have a question that needs an answer. McKinney should ask this same question.

I posted under the Lamont thread, too, so people don't forget about this, because Lamont was the much bigger story.

I think Winter patriot's explanations are very good and should be considered and weighed out. The crossover theory in this situation is entirely possible and could explain BigDan's numbers.
I wouldn't dismiss the possibility that Ms McKinney lost this election on her own, though. Many people find her attitude and antics unpleasant. Sometimes voters just say "Enough, already". As is the case with Lieberman/Lamont.

Agent99 #139

The report I saw said "...at least one 4th Congressional District precinct without McKinney's name on the ballot, but with her opponent's name on it.” Link
So there seems to be a problem beyond the redistricting.

For the record: It's possible that all these new votes that turned up for Johnson are legitimate. But it hardly seems likely. After all, if the Republicans in the 4th District were so hot to support Johnson against McKinney yesterday, where were they three weeks ago, when McKinney got 47% of the vote in the first round of the primary, to Johnson's 45%? They could have made the runoff unnecessary --- if they even exist at all!

It's also possible that the ultra-hackable Diebold machines have brought us another undetectable surprise. To me this explanation seems far more likely.

So if you want to take Jo-Joy's advice and "consider and weigh out" my "explanations", please remember there's a big difference between "possible" and "likely".

Unfortunately, in GA one does not declare a party at registration. As stated earlier, any registered voter that did not cast a vote in the Republican primary was eligible to vote in yesterday's Democratic run off.

See this link to GA Sec. of State (a Democrat, albeit the one who lead us into voting machines), voting procedures

Here's a link to the law related to the Dekalb County Elections board In Dekalb, the majority of the Board as well as the elections supervisor are Democrats.

This may help explain the numbers Big Dan has been asking about:

A preliminary Atlanta Journal-Constitution analysis showed that about 64,000 people voted in the 4th District primary on July 18, but more than 70,000 voted in Tuesday’s runoff. The key to Johnson’s victory was the support he received in Gwinnett and Rockdale, where voters came to the polls in surprising numbers. Johnson carried those areas overwhelmingly, while also making inroads into McKinney’s traditional political strength in key parts of DeKalb.

(source: http://www.ajc.com/metro.../09/mckinney_losing.html)

GK/Leftie: You don't need AJC's "preliminary" 64,000/70,000 numbers: 8,000 more people voted in the runoff vs. the primary, and Johnson got 13,000 more votes to ZERO for McKinney in the runoff vs. the primary...final numbers. Forget about AJC's "preliminary" counts. Those are the final numbers.

My question still stands:

HOW DID JOHNSON GET 13,000 MORE VOTES TO ZERO FOR MCKINNEY, PRIMARY VS. RUNOFF??? DON'T CONFUSE MY QUESTION...

The only answer (besides fraud) is that 8,000 more people voted in the runoff, and 100% of them voted for Johnson...and all 100% of Coynes 5,000 in the primary voted for Johnson in the runoff. That is what you have to believe, if you throw out fraud as a reason.

It's just the numbers...I didn't make this up!!!

No one has answered my question yet. The answer isn't "the Atlanta blah blah said and preliminary said blah blah"

How did McKinney's vote total remain the same preliminary vs. runoff, and Johnson got 13,000 more votes preliminary vs runoff? It's a simple question. I just want to know how Johnson got those 13,000 votes???? and McKinney NONE????

As we have mentioned on this blog MANY TIMES, the Diebold TS machines used in Georgia do not leave a paper trail and the results cannot be audited. Therefore we have NO REASON to trust the "official" results, and NO REASON to trust any analysis based on those results, including the "preliminary analysis" from the AJ-C to which leftofcenter referred.

If "voters came to the polls in surprising numbers" in Gwinnet and Rockdale, then that's where I would be most suspicious of fraud.

Please remember this when the Elections Board, the AJ-C, and everyone else tries to tell you why McKinney lost, and by how much, and for what reason(s): They have no idea who won that primary, and neither do you, and neither do I.

Big Dan - we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this topic. I don't see any fraud here. McKinney's own camp hasn't brought up the pecular charge you are. I don't know statistics, just that the electorate showed up in droves to oust her. Several other charges that her campaign had initiated have been investigated and seen to be unfounded (like the one supporter who said she hit Cynthia's name, but it came out Hank's - it was found that her finger his Cynthia's name but her nail hit Hank's and her vote was changed to show her support for Cynthia). The elections officials, Democrats at that, have bent over backwards to make sure everything was aboveboard, knowing that Cynthia was liable to cry foul like she did when Majette beat her. At this point, I hope she throws her support behind Johnson and they work together for the good of our district, state, and country. If she believes everything she purports to, then a loss of a congressional seat won't stop her from champion her causes.

Does anyone also notice, that I called GK & lefty "shills", and they didn't get mad or defend themselves??? That's wierd!!!

Big Dan - I don't resort to namecalling or responding to it in a political debate - there is just no reasoning for it other than the other person doesn't have the information to back up what they are saying. Also, it tends to lessen the conversation. I have diligently tried to address your concerns rationally (as well as learn from them). You just don't seem to be willing to do the same.

leftofcenter wrote:

I don't see any fraud here.

That's the whole point: the fraud that can be committed on Diebold TS machines is undetectable. Just because you don't see it, that doesn't mean it didn't happen.

I don't know statistics, just that the electorate showed up in droves to oust her.

If you did know some statistics you would understand how weird this result looks. And you don't know that the electorate showed up in droves either. All you know is that the official results say. And they can never be proven. So they're meaningless.

The elections officials, Democrats at that, have bent over backwards to make sure everything was aboveboard

This too is meaningless. Their political affiliations are irrelevant. Many "Democrats" we've seen lately are nothing more than elephants dressed up as donkeys. And more to the point, the elections officials have no control of the machines so they cannot possibly make sure that everything is above board. All they can do is try to maintain the appearance of everything being above board.

Nobody can trust any election result from Georgia as long as they have those damned machines there. Sad but true.

But don't let that stop you. Shill on!

You guys are...I don't even know how to respond to your postings. In a closer election, maybe I would give more credence to your accusations. The simple truth is that the voters have seen this coming for a long time. In fact, hoping for it for a long time. You see fraud in that, and nothing I can say is going to change it, or even open your mind to the possibility that in this particular case (not in general) there has been no foul play. I agree with WP's assertion that DieBold does need to be fixed - it is to our (Democrat's shame) that it was the brain child of Cathy Cox, who spent tons of money on them to advocate for herself. And before you start screaming that I am again "dissing" a Dem, it is only b/c she then went on to stage a campaign against Mark Taylor (another Dem) for Governor and took precious money away from our general election war chest - he already had an uphill battle running against an incumbent GOP Gov, Sonny Purdue.

What do you mean, "we'll have to disagree"? You didn't answer my question: "How did Johnson get 13,000 votes from primary to runoff vs. McKinney got zero."

Disagree on what?

Lefty: What is your explanation for this? I really want to know. Please repeat your explanation, how Johnson got 13,000 votes to zero for mckinney, from preliminary to runoff. I don't think you answered that.

I believe that in 3 weeks, 13,000 voters voted 100% for Johnson and 0% for McKinney (including 8,000 people who didn't vote in the primary all voting for Johnson and 5,000 Coyne voters who voted 100% for Johnson and 0% for McKinney), as much as I believe 2 Brad Blog fans who follow vote fraud decide to post for the first time in a Mckinney article about vote fraud, and go OUT OF THEIR WAY to offer ridiculous non-answers to legitimate questions about 13,000 mysterious votes. Right........

Big Dan - the fact is, I don't have to answer that - you have to prove there is something amiss first. Until proven otherwise the election results will stand...and I'm guessing they will stand. When I say we will have to disagree, I mean we will have to disagree on your supposition that something was wrong with this election. I have defended every aspect of why I chose to vote the way I did - I did that and didn't play dirty by trying to bring in her father's (campaign manager) anti-semetic views or her penchant for race-baiting (Al Gore has a low "negro" tolerance). It seems that you just can't understand that people DISAGREE with you on this issue. And it also seems a bit pompous on your part to think that you know better than these people. I am not saying I know better, simply giving an explaination of why I voted the way I did.

The statistics don't make sense, Bub. That's my answer. You have NO ANSWER! YOU are going on faith, I am going by statistics. You are asking us to believe that 8,000 new voters voted 100% since 3 weeks ago, and all 5,000 Coyne voters voted for Johnson. What's YOUR side??? You just said you have no side in your last comment.

THAT'S THE POINT!

Big Dan - fact check - I have never been on Brad Blog (nor heard of it) till last night when I was on DailyKos and someone mentioned this blog as having an article on the election. That is the BIG MYSTERY of how I got to your site...from another LIBERAL website - oh the scandel!!!

leftofcenter: If the voters of the Georgia 4th district are so hot to see the back of Cynthia McKinney, and if they have felt this way for such a long time, then why didn't they say so the first time?

It doesn't make any sense that McKinney had a 2% margin over Johnson three weeks ago --- but yet he had a 20% margin yesterday.

I didn't say that I see fraud here, but I do see good reasons to be suspicious. And I don't see that there's any reason to trust the "official" result. So there is no way to allay my suspicions.

And that's the main problem. Unless Georgia changes its tune, we will never have any assurance that anyone from that state was legitimately elected to any office. So where does that leave us?

In other words, if McKinney had won big, and if you and others had claimed "fraud", there would be no way for me --- or anyone else --- to refute the charge. I would be in the same boat then as you are now, if I tried to argue that everything was above board, and that the "results" could be trusted, and that analysis based on those "results" could be taken seriously.

So I sympathize with your plight. The points you are trying to make would be much stronger if Georgia had some sort of auditable, verifiable, voting system. But it doesn't. And, ultimately, that's what I've been blogging about here. It's not just about McKinney, although personally I think her voice in Congress was a mighty important one, and I fear it will be greatly missed. But that's just my opinion.

The FACT is that we can't know who won any of these Georgia races, or by how much, or why ... and to me this is a far greater tragedy than Cynthia McKinney's apparent loss of her seat in Congress.

HOW DID JOHNSON GET 13,000 MORE VOTES TO ZERO FOR MCKINNEY, PRIMARY VS. RUNOFF??? DON'T CONFUSE MY QUESTION…

Republicans crossed over for the runoff and Dems that were disatisfied showed up and CM supporters did not.

Nobody can trust any election result from Georgia as long as they have those damned machines there. Sad but true.

You can't get verifiable, auditable elections with these machines. How true. And where it is of most concern is in districts/elections where the numbers are close. Not the case here.

Does anyone also notice, that I called GK & lefty "shills", and they didn't get mad or defend themselves??? That's wierd!!!

Attempted insults only make me mad is they hit close to home. Knowing how off "Shills," "pretending to be liberals," "Rovian", "Republican scum" comments are, I just think you like people in little pigeonholes. Like a the guy that when any woman doesn't want him she must be a lesbian.

OK...I've heard enough of this tinfoil hat conspiracy stuff about voting irregularities. Yes, there were some machine problems. Would anyone expect less of Diebold? And yes, things get screwed up by inexperienced poll workers. Anyone who has ever worked in a polling location knows this is the nature of the beast.

The crux of McKinney's outcry is the claim that her name wasnt printed on some ballots. Here's what happened:

Since the last election, several precincts in McKinney's district were moved into GA-05. GA-05 is John Lewis's district. Evidently a number of McKinney constituents were not aware of this, so when they went to vote of course McKinney's name wasnt on the ballot. Neither was Hank Johnson's.

The fact that McKinney immediately launched into a tirade without getting the facts is typical and shows incredibly poor judgement....and lack of judgement was a key factor in her welcomed defeat.

Sorry, Volvo, but your story doesn't hold up. The crux of McKinney's complaint wasn't just that her name wasn't on the ballot --- it was that her name was missing from the ballot but Hank Johnson's name was there! Thus the headline on this thread.

If you can't be bothered to read the large print at the top of the page then how can you purport to make a contribution to the fine print at the bottom?

"And I don't see that there's any reason to trust the "official" result."

That hits the nail on the head and frankly THAT is why most of us blog here. None of us trust the "official" result. So if you like McKinney or don't like McKinney is just good ol' fashion politics. Not being able to trust election results is not.

VOLVODRIVER

The report was: "…at least one 4th Congressional District precinct without McKinney's name on the ballot, but with her opponent's name on it.”

This is in the green box at the top of this thread and was also repoted on Raw Story and Cynthia's website. I also refrenced it at my comment #149

There were also instances of redistricting confusion as you mention, but the fact remains that there was at least one area reported where her name was missing but not Johnson's.

The thing about "her opponent's name being on a ballot, but hers not..." It was only reported on HER website - raw story picked up and I'm assuming, WP picked it up from there. So...basically all you have is her campaign's word on that ever happening. The Diebold conversation, I will agree that that system needs to be overhauled (and will be more of a proponent of it now, given my experience with you guys). But, there is no fact that her name was missing, but not Johnson's...that still remains to be seen.

#168: So, 13,000 Republicans and Dems who were fed up with McKinney in the last 3 weeks??? Come on!!! You must really think we're stoooopid....

HEY EVERYBODY!!!!

It is my considered opinion that this sudden influx of people who call themselves Cynthia McKinney's constituents, who supposedly have already voted against her, done their worst, are here for one reason:

TO TRY TO MAKE A, FALSE, SHOWING THAT HER CONSTITUENTS WERE TIRED OF HER, AND THAT IS WHY SHE LOST THE RUNOFF.

They are not objective, not well-meaning fellow liberals. They are using this thread as some sort of ground work against any contest of the whacky runoff result on voting machines designed to be hacked at will. I'M NOT GOING TO SPEND ALL DAY GOING BACK AND FORTH WITH THEM AGAIN.

So. Any of the regular commenters who care to keep engaging in this theater with them are, of course, welcome to continue, but BE WARNED of the nefarious use to which this poppycock can be put.

Look at it this way, THIS is the kind of crap Cynthia McKinney has been having to deal with for years. It is a travesty that she is made to look undignified every time she turns around because of the ceaseless assaults on her from conservatives who do not want anything like a REAL congressperson in her seat, in any seat.

The runoff election result in McKinney's district stinks to high heaven, on very solid grounds. My advice is:

LET THESE PEOPLE POST COMMENTS TO EACH OTHER ON THIS THREAD UNTIL THEY ARE WORN OUT, LEAVE THEM TO IT.

We have work to do.

None of your shill answers makes sense so far. You are very very very adamant about pushing answers that don't make sense. If they made sense, I'd say "OK, that makes sense".

Know what? Your answers are so full of shit, the more I think about it. Your last answer, in your ever changing answers, is that 13,000 people got fed up with McKinney's performance from July 18 to Aug 8!!!!! WTF????????

This election was run by DIEBOLD ELECTRONIC VOTING MACHINE WHICH DIDN'T PRODUCE A PAPER TRAIL. ha ha ha ha! G.W Bush won the election. So you better put your faith in the Bushit government outcome because there will be NO RECOUNT.

With the stellular record of diebold machines you should trust the election results. 13,000 added votes for yo man. Pretty sweet. As far as your candidate being a carbon copy of Ms. McKinney without the drama.. i would have seriously questioned the proported mass media drama stories and why you would vote for a candidate who offers nothing else. Nothing else that you have stated in your multiple posts while W.P., Agent 99, and Big Dan have all brought supported arguments and questions unanswered.

Finally, even if only 1 person can evidence that McKinney's name was missing from a ballot, would you not trust that person over a company run by convicted felons? A voting machine 1 person can rig the outcome of an entire election? A undetectable switch by a program which eats itself?

To Pocker ace: Your memory recounting the 2000 election has faultered. Florida was given permission from the Supreme Court to stop the Florida recount. Gore clearly had more votes in Florida when they did get arount to finally OFFICIALLY counting them. While this is PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE, this final count was overshadowed by what event???

A: The Bush/Cheney holiday formerly known as 9/11.

F*ck this system of voting and the criminals who force and enforce it on the American public. WE paid millions for these machines put in place by the Fascist thugs in power TO KEEP THESE BASTARDS IN POWER.

Lastly Lefty, your augument that she didn't complain in the last election would have NO BEARING under these stated conditions. Most people didn't know about hackable electronic voting machines even 1 year ago. Most American people still DO NOT KNOW these machines were hacked to help give Bush/Cheney their 2nd illegal term.

Regardless of your reasons for supporting Mr. Johnson, i see no reason why any candidate should be declared WINNER with this unvarifiable outcome. The Fascist Republicans, Republidem Enablers and their mass media controlled propaganda machine have worked hard to get her out. I ain't a cop but this sh*t smells thick. DOWN WITH THE SYSTEM!!!

BigDan
I'll try one more time since you are having trouble with this.

Many people who didn't like CM didn't vote in the primary because it was widely assumed that she had it in the bag. The major Republican races were decided without a runoff. After Johnson pushed it to a runoff, people that had sat out the primary because (1)they were Dems that didn't feel good about CM but didn't think the challenger had a snowballs chance OR (2) were Republicans that had voted in the primary, came out and voted. The barrage of campaigning occured between the primary and the runoff becasue CM had not bothered before and Hank suddenly had $$.

So no, BigD, 13,000 people didn't become fed up with CM between primary and run-off. 13,000 people who were already fed up realized that they could do something about it.

Hope that helps you

gkelliot: You seem so sure of yourself. But you haven't given us any references or sources or anything. And you're not even in Georgia.

So ... why should be believe you?

We already know that we can't trust the "official" totals, because we can't verify them... and yet we should trust your analysis --- based on those same totals?

LMARO

TO TRY TO MAKE A, FALSE, SHOWING THAT HER CONSTITUENTS WERE TIRED OF HER, AND THAT IS WHY SHE LOST THE RUNOFF....

Do Georgia election laws suck. No Argument.
Should voting machines be trashed. Yea.
Was Cynthia right about lots of issues. Absolutely.

But just because all of these items are true does not mean that it is not also true that "All politics is local." Sometime a candidate loses because she acts arrogant, unprofessional, takes her base for granted and pisses off big chucks of the electorate.

LET THESE PEOPLE POST COMMENTS TO EACH OTHER ON THIS THREAD UNTIL THEY ARE WORN OUT, LEAVE THEM TO IT.

God, you remind me of Janet Parshall sticking her fingers in her ears so she wouldn't have to hear Randi Rhodes giving her the facts on the Davis-Bacon Act.

i git it. Sorta like Bush and Rove coming to the aid of Republidem Lieberman and even suggesting him a possible Repub candidate. Lieberman is suppose to be a DEMOCRAT. yESTERDAY John Conyers Jr. MICHIGAN DEMOCRAT (A REAL DEMOCRAT actually representing AMERICANS) released new findings that George Bush and the Bushit administration has broken 27 laws including lies about reasons for going to war in IRAQ> The pro Bush pro war Liebermans in the Democrat party must be purged at all costs. DOWN WITH THE FASCIST SYSTEM of CRIMINAL MURDERERS!!!

gkelliot: You seem so sure of yourself. But you haven't given us any references or sources or anything. And you're not even in Georgia.

1. people thought CM had it in the bag
2.The major Republican races were decided without a runoff.
3. The realization that Johnson's candidacy had legs energized his campaign poll numbers moved his way. See link.
4. Republicans didn't have anything too exciting in their run-off. Traditional Republicans probably voted in the Dem run-off. My assumption.
5. She had polarized the district and lots of her constituents wanted her out. I base that on my conversations with others in the district, news reports, and poll numbers that match up to election results (soft and unverifiable as they are).

cOMMENT #183: maybe you're right? maybe.

i say: STUPID AMERICANS STUPID AMERICANS STUPID AMERICANS STUPID AMERICA.

Of all the lies i hate from g bush and the bushit administration, it's the one about how US is giving democracy to the people of IRAQ. In plain terms our government has presented to the stupid american people the idea that these Iraqi PEOPLE needed to be saved and our form of democracy handed down to them by american guns and war casualties is the ticket. A government where the people's legitimate vote for the elects the people to represent them.

On the contrary, the votes of American people cannot be verified. Thus our elections are a front for the FASCIST CRIMINALS who put these electronic VOTING machines in place. Like DAVID COBB SAID ON THE BRAD BLOG HEADER, "All votes are sacred or this Democracy is a sham."

GEORGIANS SHOULD NOT ACCEPT THE DIEBOLD ELECTION RESULTS. American which and i'm sure include soldiers from Georgia have died for the biggest ugliest lie told to the American people next to the controlled demolitions on 911 and an air defense under the authority od Dick Cheney which stood down that day. Like the confiscated video of what hit the Pentagon (definately not a 757) you will never as in NEVER KNOW WHO REALLY WON THIS ELECTION.

“I don't see any fraud here. McKinney's own camp hasn't brought up the pecular charge you are. I don't know statistics, just that the electorate showed up in droves to oust her.”

No problem #156 LEFTOFCENTER

I'm an expert in probability theory.

The odds of all of the additional 13,000 voters in a run off election going to the loser of the primary is longer than the odds of flipping a fair coin 13,000 times and coming up all tails. The odds of that happening are less than 1 in 1,000.000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000. If Johnson was not likely lucky enough to beat longer odds than that then it is very likely that fraud was involved in obtaining the election result whether the fraud can be seen or not. The fact that the EVM's can easily hide that fraud should set off all of the fraud alarms.

If you really are left of center you should be very suspicious of any voting system claiming that somebody beat those kind of odds. You said yourself that McKinney didn't even try until the run off election. If there were any fruits at all for her efforts in the runoff the odds of course would be even longer.

I've been researching runoffs for a while today, and the consensus, is that it is "very rare" to have more voters in a runoff than a primary, the norm is that there is more voters in a primary than the runoff...this has to be unprecedented, that there were 8,000 more voters in a runoff (out of around 70,000 voters...not millions) AND that 100% of them voted for one candidate, and all the 5,000 voters who voted for neither Johnson or McKinney in the primary, ALL voted for Johnson in the runoff.

The vote in the primary was (rounded) McKinney 28,000, Johnson 27,000, Coyne 5,000. If 3500 Coyne voters voted for Johnson in the runoff, and 1500 voted for McKinney, the total for a victory in that case would look something like Johnson 30,500, McKinney 29,500.

The runoff was Johnson 41,000 (13,000 more), McKinney 28,000 (the SAME). Call me crazy, but that doesn't look right. And coupled with the fact that Brad Blog has been reporting irregularites against McKinney and MSM articles against McKinney BEFOREHAND, before ANY of this unfathomable outcome, well.........it's not like Brad wasn't sort of predicting an outcome like this.

I guess reichwingers think we're going to swallow unbelievable shit, but we don't. I'm not an expert, I don't claim to be, I'm just an average guy and these numbers don't make sense. It's just as simple as that. I cannot come to any other conclusion, my logical brain won't let me, looking at these stats. My brain won't let me believe stupid bullshit like these idiots above are saying.

When I first posted these numbers, I just posted them. It's easy to draw the conclusion I've drawn, just looking at the numbers, unless you are stupid, or falling for used car salesmen bullshit.

When I first posted these numbers, that's when the used car salesmen started. I just posted numbers, that's all. And any normal person can draw the conclusions I've drawn.

So, where did Johnson get 13,000 more votes from? I believe a machine can do something like that, but 13,000 people cannot. Call me crazy, but I'm not.

Thank you, Bob Young, for your comment. It seems you are a normal person, like me, and that doesn't add up. Yeah, I'm not a used car salesman!!! I'm on here all the time, just making comments from an average guy's point of view. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. This is obvious, and rather quickly obvious. This was an easy slam dunk, if someone just looks at these improbable numbers.

The "crossover" bullshit doesn't explain it. I read about it all day today. When I don't know or understand something, I read about it. That's when I read all over the place, that "normally" runoffs have less voters than their primaries. I wish I could find a place with the stats of all the runoffs, in which one candidate got 0% more, and another got 50% more. Oh, I think that happened once...in the 2006 McKinney/Johnson runoff.

If you get a chance go and watch Cynthia's concession speech. Link: http://www.c-span.org/

Big Dan:

Thanks Big Dan for sticking to your facts and questions. I think you're onto the heart of it, and it's great that you keep putting it out there.

I could understand some small number of republicans sitting out the first primary and then deciding to spoil the runoff. Like a few percent. But the numbers are soooo huge for Johnson, it doesn't make sense. And making even less sense is (as you are right to keep pointing out) how come no more voters for McKinney? Certainly there were also McKinney supporters who thought she had it in the bag the first time, and didn't make it to the polls. So then she has to have a run-off election, and they see all the ads for Johnson--their representative is about to go down, but they just sit at home? 'splain that to me.

What I want to see is how the numbers break down by precinct, and the results for those precincts where voters supposedly came out in droves. Hmmm. A few precincts where all of a sudden, an unprecedented number of voters turn out all for one candidate. Of course that won't turn out to be fraud. Glitch, maybe but not fraud. No. Just another faulty memory chip or whatever.

To WP and agent99--

where do you get the patience to put up with the crap from these few disinfo artists today. My GOD! I just read the whole thread in one go. That was painful. I would have pulled both their plugs about the fifth time they were admonished to please go read a different posting, and then come back and weigh in, dealing with that information--and of course they just kept shilling away, "oh, yes, and the election machines, so terrible, but I just don't think there was a problem in _this_ case." And people keep explaining that there is no basis to believe the machines, but they just would not hear it.

But the thread held up well for the most part.

Thanks.

Thanks, John, but it wasn't a scintilla of the crap Cynthia McKinney has had to deal with while trying to make our country a better place. So I figure I still owe her.

Look... everybody knows what the true results of the election were. DeKalb county officials, along with Atlanta and national news media, just report what they want everybody to hear.

Cynthia McKinney won the primary, hands down. But it would be too obvious to rig the results against her... too many voted for her and would be vocal.

Enter the runoff. We all know Cynthia won the runoff, too, but that's not on the agenda of the right wing and the administration controlled media, so we've been told that she lost, which fits their agenda.

I know far too many people who voted for her to believe she didn't win.

A little tidbit from Whiskey Bar on Cynthia Mc Kinney and why she lost. Link: http://billmon.org/archives/002659.html

Thank you John Dowd and Disgusted Voter. Yes, I'm sticking to THE FACTS!!!!!!!! And the facts are, that 13,000 to zero votes for Johnson looks f***ing ridiculous!!! It is IMPOSSIBLE!!!

Big Dan

Here you go! Have fun - I'll be looking them over too!

August 8th Runoff Pages 1-6 percentages of of registered voters that voted. Pages 21-23 Breakdown

July 18th Election Pages 1-6 percentages of of registered voters that voted. Pages 152-155 Breakdown

Comment #192 Now show me the way
to the next Wiskey Bar

Oh don't ask why
tHEIR eLECTION'S BUILT ON LIES

NOW SHOW ME THE WAY TO A VERIFIABLE VOTE
Oh don't ask why
Oh don't ask why

Now if you can't produce a verifiable vote
Georgia make you cry
Democracy's a giant lie
e voting's a Fascist disguise

Bush sent our SOLDIERS OFF TO DIE!!!

WP

You said:

I didn't say that I see fraud here, but I do see good reasons to be suspicious. And I don't see that there's any reason to trust the "official" result. So there is no way to allay my suspicions.

And that's the main problem. Unless Georgia changes its tune, we will never have any assurance that anyone from that state was legitimately elected to any office. So where does that leave us?

(post #167). It leaves us in the dark as to election reality, and therefore in the dark as to whether or not we have a democracy.

Which raises the American doctrine of presumption of corruption on the part of government, because power corrupts.

Under that doctrine we would traditionally presume that we have a dictatorship, because "dictatorship", of the modern kind, is defined as any process that thwarts the will of the people as expressed by their vote.

We must not only "know" what the correct vote tally is, we must know that we know.

As it is at the moment, we have the Georgia Election Religion and the doctrine of "faith in that system".

Not good enough, and as a matter of fact, not even close.

CHALLENGE THE RESULTS CYNTHIA!

Amen to that brother

There is no confidence in these election results because there is no verifiable paper trail evidence to support that Johnson won. Ms. McKinney: you can either stand up for the principles you fought for your entire political life or suffer the consequence as another e-voting casualty. Just another rusted out car set ablaze and sent to the scrap yard overseas by this Fascist criminal government which has hijacked our DEMOCRACY.

Ms. McKinney: i urge you to reconsider challenging these diebold election results. I am taking the liberty to say that Bradblog with provide a presence and a shield to deflect all un-DEMOCRATIC and loser critisms in support of your efforts to only accept a legitimate election of the people. A vote which can be evidenced by a paper ballot trail.

Focus and conquer these loser Fascist forces in power which put these machines in place to control our vote.
You will also gain respect as an American patriot who refuses to give into this criminal regime.

The Repug smear campaign is in full force!

Oh ain't that a pretty picture?! (At the link)

Comment 194
BlueB, lets get the basics - most of the 4th is Dekalb but there are precincts in Gwinnett and Rockdale included too. You've only got DeKalb.

Gwinnett Runoff
Gwinnett Primary

Rockdale doesn't post on the internet but Glenda at Rockdale Board of elections (Phone: 770-785-5947) will be happy to email them to you!

Cynthia: The spirits of American Revolutionaries are calling you out. U.S. voters and world citizens who understand what is going on in our current political climate, as well as those who intended on voting for your candidacy, will recognize you as a champion of the people! Now more than ever in this darkest page of our history, we need a STRONG representative upholding the priciples of the U.S. constitution to stand up against these tyrannical forces currently in power which have taken away our right to evidence the WILL of "the people." Do not suscribe to this un-DEMOCRATIC abuse of our most basic voters' rights.

We are government of the people by the people.

Demand an election with a verifiable paper trail.

BE STRONG!
WE GOT YOUR BACK!!!

Cynthia McKinnney:
Win
Lose
or
Draw
at least with a meaningful election with a verifiable paper trail you will know that the outcome wasn't gamed like the last 2 presidential elections which put forth this Bushit regime which spent millions of taxpayers dollar$ on these hackable machines. Here at Bradblog we are very aware that one person can rig the outcome of an entire election undetected. Stick it to these Fascist criminals who already think they replaced you. In the end you might find the people who supported you were actually the MAJORITY.

Come On Bebe!

gkelliott #201

Thanks, I'm putting together a spread sheet and see a few interesting numbers. I thought I was about half done, now it looks like about 1/4 LOL. At least Gwinnett has the polling places numbered - that will save some time.

So far the polling places with the largest increases in turnout are the ones where Johnson did well in the primary. The polling places with the smallest increase in turnout are the ones where McKinney excelled.

Some polling places had as much as 184% increase in voters.

With no way to audit the machines it's impossible to tell if this trend is natural or contrived. If one was to "stuff the ballot box" what better way than to do it in the areas where one would expect such a vote?

The Founding Fathers of our DEMOCRATIC form of government went to great lengths to ensure that we have a representative government of the people. They also put in place a way to combat a corrupt entity in control.
WE MUST GUARANTEE THAT EVERY VOTE FOR Cynthia McKinney and Hank Johnson were counted.

You were a thorn to the Bush administration. Their vulgar display of power is well documented however remains unchecked by a party (your party of Lieberman type enablers) and the robot majority. Their fascist arm of control is extended with these hackable electronic voting machines run by convicted felons and in your case WITHOUT EVEN A PAPER BALLOT TRAIL. Look how they are using their mass media tool to attribute the Democratic party with Alkaida today. Another typical use of lies and deception characteristic of the Rovian Bushit administration.

Use your special gifts and pursue an election in which you can legitimately verify the winner. Bring honor back to your party! John Conyers Jr. needs to work with gooood people like you!

Representative McKinney:
Yuo must think that you are fighting for a higher cause for all U.S. soldiers and the people of Georgia. You are like Rocky. The Underdog who must get up! Hank is just a plastic rabbit you're gonna chase.

You were 1 of the few Congressional voices to questino the Bush government 911 story. I know THEY are the real terrorists and independent investigation supports their involvement.

The Bushit administration has all the motive in the world to rig your election and declare someone else victorious unsupported.

Dem against Dem makes "them" look innocent.

THESE BASTARDS ARE GUILTY.

Look: Instead of overcomplicating this, DID or DID NOT Johnson get 50% more votes to 0% more votes primry vs. runoff? DID or DID NOT Johnson get about 13,000 more votes primary vs. runoff to around ZERO more for McKinney from primary to runoff?

Jeeeeeez, YES or NO??? Is that TRUE or FALSE? That's why Republicans hate courts, because a judge or lawyer says, "True or False...just answer the question please". Now we know why they hate courts!

A paper ballot trail will evidence a much different outcome. Bet the house.
Please forgive my previous typos - i'm on the run!

You know, you say "link to this...link to that, look at this"...making it muddier and over complicated. Which distracts from the original simple question and the final results. Well, the "supposed" "unbelievable" final results. You know how I started this? I posted the primary results vs. the runoff results. OOOOOO...lots of "spin" there.................

Am I off base? I'm an average person, and these results look "not believable", don't they? We would have to believe (faith) that in a matter of 3 weeks, Johnson got around 13,000 NEW votes and McKinney NONE. I can't think anything, other than that it doesn't look right.

I also don't think the pre-election polls vs. the "final count" in the LaMont/Lieberman election don't jive. And, of course, the final count slanted towards the liberal Dem vs. the conservative Dem who Rove offered help to, btw, according to Democracy NOW! Just like they ALWAYS slant towards the Republican vs. a Democrat. ALWAYS...therefore not random. ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS

This is interesting, too. 7 pro-Israeli PACs donated to Hank Johnson before the runoff:

http://thehill.com/thehi...age/080206/mckinney.html

hmmmmmmm.........

Cynthia McKinney is outspoken about 9/11, and I don't think Israeli's are interested in the "quality of life" in the 4th district in Georgia........

According to GK & Lefty above, the 4th district is "mostly black", so why are pro-Israeli PAC's interested in the election in the 4th district of Georgia???

http://www.dailykos.com/...nly/2006/8/4/10362/15018

Yeah, I know, I always say I don't like kos, I found this in a search...

It's called "Hank Johnson: neo-con Trojan horse"...

NOW...let me ask this,

DO NEO-CONS HACK E-VOTE MACHINES???

Does the pope shit in the woods???

Geez, we have the "all-stars" here: neo-cons, Israeli pacs, what's going on here??? Absurd vote totals.........

For a f***ing district no one should care about???

Now if the playbook follows suit, GK & Lefty will call me "anti-semetic"...HAH! I BEAT YOU TO IT, USED CAR SALESMEN!!!!!!!!

LINK TO THIS! (I'm holding my middle finger up in the air)

OK, ready? Now I'm just a regular guy, and I'm not from Georgia.

BUT...here's ANOTHER RUNOFF...IN GEORGIA...PRIMARY JULY 18, 2006....RUNOFF AUG 8, 2006...JUST LIKE MCKINNEY/JOHNSON...

In the primary, Hecht got less than 50% of the votes, so they needed a runoff, and there were 448,106 total votes in the primary...

http://www.sos.state.ga....ts/2006_0718/0000210.htm

NOW...in the RUNOFF, there were 226,007 TOTAL VOTES...HALF THE TOTAL VOTES OF THE PRIMARY, JUST LIKE I SAID HISTORICALLY HAPPENS IN RUNOFFS:

http://www.sos.state.ga....ults/2006_0808/00502.htm

So...where's GK & Lefty on this one??? Link to THAT!

So, it's even MORE suspicious, the McKinney election, when compared to ANOTHER RUNOFF IN THE SAME STATE AT THE SAME TIME!!! AND A DEM RUNOFF TO BOOT!!!

Check out my math, and let me know if I'm wrong...

My question is, I'm not from Georgia, I didn't know anything about runoffs before this, and I CAN FIGURE THIS OUT????????

Final word: All votes will be counted. Democrat Kerry bushit. 2004 was rigged in 4 states. The Rove/Bushit controlled mass media machine put the spin than tin hat internet wackos were the only ones yelling conspiracy in OHIO. The efforts of the Ohio Free Press and the Green and Libertarian Parties received zero -0- mass media traction and were basically ignored while the OHIO DEMOCRATICs layed down and stayed down while the ugle facts of what happened on election night and the faux rigged recount didn't see daylight. I hounded the truth unfortunately John Kerry and the Ohio Democratic party were more than happy to stay down after taking the dive.

In June, the Robert Kennedy Jr. article about the rigged 2004 Presidential election was published in the Rolling Stone www.rollingstone.com/pol...the_2004_election_stolen put This written account in a major publication that beyond a resonable doubt, Kerry really won Ohio. Of course AFTER THE FACT.

While this was a case of massive humanistic fraud as well as rigged electronic voting machines, the EVIDENCE OF DIEBOLD FRAUD as well as the reality of the THEFT is what matters.

If you got into public office for all the good reasons, than request a legitimate election to support a conclusion that Americans and particularly Georgians deserve.

Get an election protection attorney. A team of damn good lawyers! Surround yourself with people who believe in upholding the value of a fair election based on hard evidence to support the outcome as opposed to DIEBOLD FAITH. We are in a crisis situation on many fronts: our form of government, the environment, and then we got the Bush/Cheney oil war and 911 which are based on a bunch of lies.

We can start to get out of this mess by evidencing the will of the people. That starts today.

Don't let the bastards steal another one. Make them prove it and you will get a big surprise.
Believe in yourself.
Make it happen!!!

Imagine what an expert investigative journalist can do with all this data, who's job it is to do figure stuff like this out!!! Or the DNC, or the Atlanta Journal, or.........

Outstanding work Big Dan!

BigDan - You are looking at the difference in the turnout from the primary to the runoff of two races, Dem Lt Gov and the 4th Dist, and concluding that bolsters a fraud theory in the 4th, that fraud is the only factor possible. You point out the similarities in these 2 races: both races pushed to a runoff, both Dems, both in GA. You fail, however, to mention or take into consideration the differences in these two races.

One race was Statewide the other only in one District. Comparing is apples to oranges.

Your argument assumes the same level of interest.
Except in the 4th, the biggest race in the Dem runoff was Lt Gov. But that was LT GOV not Governor. Governor was already decided. South GA could care less about the Democratic nominee. On the other hand, the 4th had a controvertial incumbent in a high profile race who had shown herself to be vulnerable. It seemed likely that the turnout statewide for Lt Gov would follow the usual pattern and be lower for the run off. I think the only thing predicted for the 4th was that turnout would be higher than anywhere else.

Capitalizing on that expectation, some candidates for statewide races concentrated on Dekalb.

http://www.godekalb.com/...le.php/20060806151818209

GK: Keep trying...

GK: I just limited it to only the 3 counties DeKalb, Gwinett, and Rockdale, the 3 counties in the McKinney 4th district, and, well you know the answer, there were 93,574 total votes in the statewide Lt. Gov. election primary, and LESS in the runoff (only limited to the "apples to apples" 3 counties") 55,121 total votes. So, the exact ratio holds true, anyway, that I stated above.

But, I'm sure you knew that, and you were hoping I didn't check it out.

So, what's next? uuuuummmm....well, there were 2 black opponents in one and not the other, and , uuuummmm... SHILL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BigDan, I have been patient with you but you are just so sloppy in your analysis and logic. Your numbers are wrong in your smarta$$ comment #223. You used the total from Gwinnett for Lt Gov rather than just the handfull of precincts that are in the 4th. There were 726 more voted cast for Lt Gov in the run off in 4th dist precincts.

Even if you do not belive that Dem voters were disenchanted, do you not think that Republican leaning voters, when given a chance, wouldn't come out for the run off to vote against CM? There are 333,877 registered voteds in DeKalb. About 13,800 voted in the Rep primary in July. All the rest were eligable to vote in the Dem run off on Aug. 8. Why is it so hard for you to imagine that the turnout went way up?

The cause for reform of voting process is not helped by stupid arguements. Argue against crossover. That's what finished her. Cynthia is polarizing in the district, failing to reach out to all democrats. She failed to campaign much and certainly not throughout the district like Johnson. That threw her into a runoff and crossover finished her.