Apparently there are some brave Republicans out there who are willing to display some intellectual honesty in regards to Election Fraud. It’s only the root of democracy at stake after all.
The following is from the Rightwing “Red State” blog and surprisingly asks some real questions and expresses an honest concern about what the hell may have happened in Clermont County during last Tuesday’s OH-2 U.S. House Special Election race between Democrat Paul Hackett and Republican Jean Schmidt [emphasis in the original]…
I am one of those “kossacks” who thinks that the election irregularities in Clermont county are not a fluke. Before you write me off as a lunatic, please just look at the following situation;
1. The FBI investigated allegations of fraud made by some involved in the vote counting process in this county in 2004.
[Link to Cincinatti Enquirer article]
2. There were also irregularities in this county in the GOP primary this year, favoring Schmidt. From the Enquirer:
The new totals increased Schmidt’s lead to 2,667 votes. Williams said Clermont County officials explained to him that one of their workers accidentally marked an earlier report with the word “final” and sent it to the Hamilton County board, where all the county reports were being collected.”
[Link to Cincinatti Enquirer article]
3. The “ballot sticking” explanation may indeed be a true one; however, it does sound fishy, you have to admit. You have to ask, why was this the only county with this problem, and why did the problem only materialize halfway through the vote counting process?
4. Why did the live-updating vote counting website go down immediately before the new results were posted?
You may not think that anything fraudulent happened, but I think it’s understandable that there’s suspicion. Sorry for the long post, I just wanted to make clear that just because we yell “fraud” doesn’t mean it’s not there. I think we all agree that fraud does occur, in some places; for some reason, this one county has had three serious irregularities in the last year. I think it’s obvious there’s a possibility that a county in which there are 3 irregularities in the space of a year is doing something wrong.
One item not mentioned by the blogger “bed4j” in the above, is the report filed by Larisa Alexandrovna last January about affidavits from several Election workers concerning unexplaned stickers placed on ballots during the gamed and illegally conducted Ohio recount.
We’re glad to see however, that more and more people are beginning to ask questions.
This is not a republican blogger, Brad. This is a dailykos member ("kossack") who posted on Redstate because of arm twisting by Armando.
Pretty sad when you think about it.
The only sad thing is people who don’t care that our election system is corrupt and refuse to step outside of their party allegience to find the truth.
Refusing to take an unbiased look is just another way to say "cheater."
Whoops — wish I could edit my posts —
Refusing to take an unbiased look is just another way to enable cheaters.
Kira –
The sad thing I’m referring to is he fact that people need to flee dailykos to even discuss election fraud, or else risk getting banned. This is the same site where the importance of being partisan rather than ideological has been flown around so much lately. For whatever reason, when it comes to election fraud, their oppositional attitude goes completely flaccid, and they join repubs in ridiculing any challenge to official results.
FYI, here is the post which forced bed4j to voice his suspicions on Redstate rather than Dailykos.
Here we go again!!!
** Yes, this is a republican blogger. Republicans post all the time on DailyKOS too and many people post there who do NOT follow the radical right or left **
I talked to my republican cousin, and he is pissed as hell about the voting irregularities. He claims that at least 3 friends of his were disenfranchised in the Ohio special election.
He says also that Clermont County is a nightmare for republicans, because the only reason they would elect someone like Schmidt is if they were all rabid fundies.
Schmidt is such a kook more than half of the city wanted to either not vote, or vote for Hackett based on his gun rights.
They’re pissed as hell, and its time republicans stand up and say: ** WE’RE PISSED AS HELL AND WE’RE NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANYMORE!!!! **
You know why?!?? The neocons don’t give a crap about any of our civil rights, they trample on them and spit in our face. Regardless of who we vote or what.
They elect more neocons, that’s what they do best. That is what the democratic vote fraud is about too, the DLC is in on the neocon scam to steal the vote.
It’s time for ALL to wake up, and hold them to the fire.
I know republicans who want to shoot that bitch Paula in Clermont County, because they know this election was rigged. They, that is almost ALL republicans are sick of Bush’s bullshit war!!!!
Story Here
The second district is NOT all red, it is FULL of independant thinkers, and then a whole lot of radical lunatics!!!
The fact is republicans report that Schmidt and others violated election rules by going inside the precinct boundaries. There was something that happened there!!!!
Republicans are as disenfranchised now as the Democrats!!!! I call for a HAND COUNT NOW!!
**Schmidt won the primary over DeWine** by committing fraud, it is obvious.
Bradblog should join RedState.org and conduct a bi-partisan investigation of the Clermont County board of elections. Even the result, **IF** it is shown that Hackett really won, will wake up Ohio en masse. That is the point of an investigation, its time to stop hiding from fraud!!!
Its gotten COMPLETELY made into a hoax now, fraud is destroying our elections. Hackett was the only man for the job and both parties know that, so an investigation is warranted!!!
Doug Eldritch
oops,
this is the link.
I say again, demand a recount. Not only that but count the number of people that voted as memorialized in the preceinct books (When you vote, your name is checked in the precinct book by either signing your name or a mark is placed against the name). Then see if the total number of people that the precinct book says voted, matches the number of votes reported. In addition, randomly get some names of voters that supposedly voted and call them to verify that they actually voted. Lastly, fly Bev Harris in and have her check the machines for vote tampering.
THIS IS TOO IMPORTANT TO LET GO!!!
"Bradblog should join RedState.org and conduct a bi-partisan investigation of the Clermont County board of elections. Even the result, IF it is shown that Hackett really won, will wake up Ohio en masse. That is the point of an investigation, its time to stop hiding from fraud"!!!
Now that is one hell of an idea. I know Brad would be up for it but the folks at Redstate most likely would not. It’s very risky for them to get the truth.
The right wingers are not for getting any facts that makes them look bad. They defend Rove, Delay, and Bush.
These people are out to ruin anyone who doesn’t fit into their "scheme" of things. Truth and facts are not a part of it.
I agree with all of you above. America needs to start here and now with this particular race, to examine it in detail and determine what went right, What went wrong, AND FIX IT!!!!!
Now, by FIX IT, I do not mean phoney fix it — I mean make it work correctly and accurately. Been listening to Mike Malloy on Air America — just love HIS SHOUTING!!!!
Mark:
When over **half** of their own is getting disenfranchised, due to these GOP partisans and fraudulent democrats I bet they will sit up and take notice.
Fraud is so serious now that even Democrats like Diebold Cathy Cox are stealing the votes and electing themselves.
** EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO UNCOVER THE TRUTH ABOUT THEIR OWN, ITS WORTH IT TO STOP REPUBS FROM GETTING DISENFRANCHISED!**
It is time to put the allegations aside, and conduct a full on bi-partisan investigation of the fraud in Clermont/Hamilton counties. With nothing left to lose, organize the petitions!!!
Doug
Vote fraud is fraud against Americans; not against Democrats. Kudos to this Republican blogger, who is against disenfranchising American voters! Republicans were disenfranchised when Hackett didn’t get in, not Democrats. The area is 70-30 GOP registered, so this time they disenfranchised Republican voters who wanted an Iraq War veteran to represent them. Thank you, for standing up for what’s right, and against these thieves. I’m against any politicians who steal votes, I wasn’t looking at party, like this guy doesn’t seem to be.
#7 Thanks for the link. I read it. Certainly changed my view of Kos. I am so angry that I have to post the (bullshit, bullshit, bullshit) text here. What bushwarp is this guy living in?
——-
No Conspiracies. No Fraudsters
by Armando
Tue Aug 2nd, 2005 at 21:36:19 PDT
Let me be the first asshole to tell you that bullshit fraud theories and bullshit conspiracy theories are not welcome.
Markos has said it. He means it.
I believe tonight was a great night and a sign that a Fighting Dem Party can and will take back the Congress in 2006.
I don’t want to hear baseless theories on fraud and other nonsense. I think, no, I know markos feels the same way.
You want to waste your time, do it somewhere else.
My tip jar will be the fraudster’s chance to troll rate me. Cuz once you start diarying your cock and bull fraud theories, markos will show you the door. With my applause in the background.
—————-
Goodbye KOS.
It’s not a conspiracy. California tested DIEBOLD machines, and had a 20% failure rate, and they banned them. I suppose the whole state of California are conspiracy theorists. What exactly is your point, since there is no conspiracy?
The DailyKOS guy, whoever runs that site (I don’t know who it is), took a wicked beating when he said he was against term limits for the president. Term limits are the only combatant against vote fraud right now!
Look into the truth about Markos and Armando’s background….
That’s what I thought…. **Were endorsed by the Diebold mafia**
Heh, we must remember that Democrat DLC types are in on the fraud. Armando couldn’t give a shit if there was fraud whether it was democrat or repub or anything else. He’s part of the problem.
Doug
You people are pissing in the wind. Every year in my election district, the voter turnout is reported to the second decimal (say, 24.59%) , then we are lectured for the poor voter turnout.
Each year I contact the local newspaper and explain that their number is not only bogus, but carried out to an "accuracy" level that isn’t even close.
The true turnout is about 40% in our district, but as our voter turnout rolls contain thousands of dead people, people who have been imprisoned or put in old folks home, and people who have moved away many years ago, they are counted as "registered voters".
We actually have more registered voters in our district than we have adults. Yes.
I have repeatedly discussed this with local officials, news reporters, and elected public servants.
Only a handful even understand the issue, and those that do don’t care enough to change the system to something that is close to accurate. One can only imagine how many similar districts there are across America.
It’s a dirty little secret that our elections are so sloppily run, that the natural tendency of "operatives" on both sides is to game the system. It certainly is more productive than trying to educate the ill-informed populace.
If the people with a below average IQ were restricted from voting, the Democrats would never win another election. This is why they try to register every living being in their district, eligible or not. This is why they try to register felons, aliens, and the senile.
You don’t find Republicans trying to lower the voting age, get felons to the polls, or soliciting the welfare neighborhoods. Instead, the GOP uses other tactics – gaming the voting machines, bluffing ignorant, illiterate (democrat) voters away from the polls.
So don’t play ethical, kids. This is a chess game, and most of you blathering on this blog don’t even understand how the game is played.
If Brad had a 100 IQ criteria for posting, none of you would even get your nutty ideas into print.
I’d like to know your name, phone number, etc…and get in contact with you after vote fraud is proven, but you’ll probably disappear…
Nutty ideas? Then help out by changing the system. It has disenfranchised millions of voters, and it must end and no **pissing in the wind** exscuse is desired!!!
Do you understand!?!?? Work at the local and state level to change the system, by forcing represenatives to change it. Join with the rest of us to end this once and for all.
Doug E.
karl-a’s baaack!
TNT: Are you from Clermont County?
Big Dan: I think he is…..
But being cynical about not being able to affect change, only allows change to not be affected. We all have to get past cynical, and get to complete action at the local level.
Doug
Election – Election – Election! There are too many inconsistencies in the last election to let it rest. It can not!!I know I sound like a broken record, but the election of 2004 was, is and will always be the MOST important issue of our time! I am sorry, but it even should rise above Iraq. A true, fair election is the basis of our democracy.
#22 Kira
I say don’t feed the trolls. Give ’em a dollar, and you won’t get any change in return, not even 2 cents (sense) back. Yes, it’s Karla.
For my own reference, I posted a link on the Gergen thread about the unmasking of Karla/ Buckshot/ Shirley. I chose that thread because I knew I would remember where to find the info, in case I needed it. And so I do. That link is here.
Doug #18
Your passionate rants always make for interesting reading. But, please start providing links to the information. It’s easy to do using Torqued’s CA, and I’m sure you’re internet saavy.
One of the best things about the BB comments is the education, which I often get by checking out the links people post. So, what about "Look into the truth about Markos and Armando’s background…. That’s what I thought…. Were endorsed by the Diebold mafia". Relevant links to info would be most appreciated.
VG
hmmmm – I didn’t know that about kos either. I rarely past there anyways, but now I have kind of a sour taste in my mouth…
Well, soon as the election fraud "opus" we’re working one is done, we’ll post it at kos (and maybe be banned! LOL!!) and let people decide for themselves. (if they allow it to remain…)
Great post Doug #6!!
Election and vote fraud are definitely part of American history – but… with electronic voting it’s no longer a few votes here, a few votes there. The Tabulators are handling millions and millions of votes. Different world.
Any investigation of Ohio voter fraud must be initiated by Ohio Dems (and crossover Republicans). Nobody is going to listen to a blogger from California about Ohio fraud. I know many people from our sister company in Cleveland. Most of them are incredibly apathetic about politics. Let’s hear from some Ohians (but only those with 100+ IQ).
**Something that is interesting**
This comparative analysis shows turnout according to precinct in Clermont County, down the line-
http://www.geocities.com/electi...tTurnoutVsVote
Look at the one thing about this, there is no even slope. There is a negative .5% decrease for Hackett, and a .5% increase for Schmidt…..All across the county.
Now, this would be due to either of these explanations:
1) According to turnout, for every 5 or 50 republicans who were going to vote for hackett, they switched their votes to Schmidt or simply voted for Schmidt anyway.
2) According to turnout, for every 5 or 50 republicans who were going to vote for hackett, they had their votes switched to Schmidt. "accidental trouble"
If republican votes were shaved off along the beltway, it would be in the more middle precincts or the big districts. Because these are all GOP republican precinct districts, it is much harder to conclusively verify the level of fraud.
The only way to determine just "how" many were disenfranchised and what Hackett possibly won by, is going through the poll book signatures and matching them to the votes.
This has to be done by everyone,regardless of result. Its called an "audit". The question is, how can we get this done?
Like I said, the number correlation is very interesting to look at.
Doug E.
Thanks to BlueMoon at CCNfor this:
It’s the collusion, stupid.
(Don’t take that the wrong way.)
It’s the seeing the wizard behind the curtain.
It’s the illusion of democracy in America.
It’s the corporate power.
It’s the status quo.
It’s a lot of things. And none of them are good.
I feel like we’re in the f* Truman Show!!!!!!!!!
It’s crazymaking, that’s what it is.
TREASONGATE: The Controlling Law, Part 2: THE DEATH PENALTY, 18 USC 794 and the shift from GWOT to GSAVE
In Part 1 of this report, Citizen Spook analyzed 18 USC 793, the United States Code provision which provides the most direct route to convictions for Patrick Fitzgerald in the Treasongate/Valerie Plame affair.
In this follow up, we are going to discuss 18 USC 794 which deals directly with Treason and the death penalty….
continued at
Citizen Spook
PLEASE REPOST and LINK
I like kos alright, if for no other reason that it is something different. To be honest, I used to be a pretty hard core conservative… and I still am on many, many issues.
Then I looked around and saw what company I was keeping and realized that the conservatives have been over run by some really slick and nasty opportunists… who really aren’t conservatives at all. They got a different agenda.. and it dips into some aspects of the Democratic Party as well.
That’s why you gotta take some of the "democrat" astroturf groups and operatives with a grain of salt. Sometimes they’re right, but they don’t want to muss things up for themselves… so they play it safe. It’s bad news. And we will all lose out if we aren’t 100% grassroots all the way. (That’s what I like about people like Brad… and lots of the kids that hang around here).
But if we do what we’re doing here… and we all try to branch out in our daily lives and talk to people like human beings and we do right to each other… we will grow like a human communities do. We think we got it bad right now… but think about the folks in the Civil Rights days… dogs, guns, bombs… they had it rough. The government was against them. The news was against them. Millions of people were against them. But they won because they stayed human, they were brave, and they never tried to slack off and let someone else fight their fights and their very powerlesness humiliated their opponents. That’s inspirational.
We just gotta keep on it. Every day tell a new person or distribute some new flyers… but we gotta do it every day.
Doug,
Disenfranchisement of lower IQ voters is a VERY GOOD thing. That’s what you don’t seem to understand.
We don’t benefit when herds of poorly informed, dependent people are herded into the polls to vote with their emotions.
We benefit from an informed, intelligent electorate. You are for the former, I am for the latter.
TNT,
The problem is disenfranchisement affects everybody. It affects all the liberal, libertarian and conservative republicans.
When people are disenfranchised, their right to vote is lost. You should stop being so cynical and work with us to completely investigate and overhaul all of this.
Like read here, Diebold & Cathy Cox are synomynous with stolen election.
Doug
Well tommarow is the 6th. The day of FEMA training.
Charlie
Yes… of course TNT…
Hold "elections" for the herds and leave the important decisions to Party members. You should take your gospel on the Nascar on the road.
TNT
People who are on the lower end of the income bracket are not neccessarily less intelligent or less informed.
Many educators aren’t "rich" but are well informed.
I’d also doubt that many rural voters who mostly vote republican and many of whom get their info from Limbaugh radio and God talk are any more informed than lower income city dwellers.
As far as dependency goes, don’t make me link to the stats that show red states suck out more govt money than the blue states.
Here it is anyways.
Hey TNT (#19),
Why don’t you take that stick of dynamite out of your ass and stick it in you mouth for a more exciting outcome. It’s obvious ewe have been playing chess with yourself to long because the American people with values based on truth and justice in the pursuit of happiness do not agree with rigged presidential elections or the Bushits empowered by them. Frigin pathetic losers making illegitimate wars in an effort to destroy our country and our planet doesn’t fly with us common folk. CHECK MATE.
#32,
Wow!
TNT #34 –
Oh yes! If only voting were limited to elitist pricks like you, all our lives would be so much better! Let’s let the "Best and Brightest" (Kissinger, McNamara, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rove) deal with all the confusing "issues" so we don’t get headaches and can focus on our widget quotas! Oh brave new world that has such creeps in it!
TNT #34
You might benefit from an in depth study of epistemology since you seem to think that you hold more knowledge than the "lower IQ voters", who seem to be anyone that you are incapable of understanding.
You might figure out why IQ tests are not necessarily a good measure of inteligence. I doubt it though, you seem convinced that you have a superior intelect.
By the way, calling people generally "poorly informed" assumes that your information is correct, more in depth, and that you know specifically where they are poorly informed.
Oh well, if it makes your existence a little more tolerable to believe that you are more intelligent than the millions that you have never spoken with, seen, or even really heard of, yet seem to have no problem generalizing as…
Wow, that might be evidence that you are a lower IQ voter.
Who the hell are you anyways?
Considering disenfranchisement of "lower IQ voters" a good thing assumes that they are less inteligent than you AND that you have a FULL understanding of their situation and the reasons that ‘they’ do what they do. Considering the number of people that you are refering to, I somehow doubt it!
Junebug #4
Thanks for clarifying! I agree with you 100%.
Huge pork barrel funds ‘Bridges to nowhere’ project in Alaska.
Link here.
How many people do you think are gonna use those bridges, TNT? Yeah, that’s what I thought.
By the way, TNT. Don’t make me prove more pork barrel
spending that red states abuse. For an unejumicated liberal like me, I do pretty *good* wit da google search.
I never thought I’d read comments from a G.O.P. troll that disenfranchisement of lower-I.Q. voters was a good thing. If we had done this in 2004, Kerry would have carried at least 40 states…fraud and all.
States with the poorest educational standards voted overwhelmingly for Bush. Those with large state college programs (New York, California, Pennsylvania) went for Kerry. The highest-rated colleges (Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Princeton) are all in blue states. Public libraries in red states are a fraction of those in blue states. The best hospitals and doctors in the country are found in blue states.
Red states are dominant in anti-intellectual pursuits like NASCAR and rodeos. Blue states favor book clubs and cultural events.
Oh, and…most people in blue states know how to pronounce the word "nuclear." And they know the difference between "dissemble" and "dissassemble."
Robert Lokwood Mills – thank you, well said!
You’re welcome, Mugzi. Even allowing for the fact that some trolls are simply put up to doing what they do, their ignorance is sometimes staggering.
If intelligence were factored in to voting patterns in recent years, the Democrats would control the White House and both houses of Congress. Just listening to Bush speak, and reading nonsensical crap from people like Rep. Istook of Oklahoma and Tancredo of Colorado, makes me cringe. Santorum and Delay are no better. They have breakfast cereal for brains, truly.
And this troll wants to disenfranchise voters of low intelligence? Careful what you ask for, troll…you might get it.
horkus,
Your link proves my point exactly. Alaska has a small population, a large national park system, a large military base presence, a top heavy government, and a VERY expensive highway system, including the bridge you mention. Thanks for the backup of my statements.
Mills,
What crap. The ignorance of Democrat voters was proven beyond argument in the Florida debacle. They couldn’t even figure out how to use the ballot. The "disenfranchisement" you Dems are always talking about usually boils down to simple ignorance. I have never seen an advantage in encouraging the poorly informed/ignorant/just plain stupid segment of our population to vote (or breed, for that matter).
The Dem foundation is built on the bottom of the barrel. The dregs.
The Alaskan ‘Bridge to nowhere’ isn’t a practical use for the residents of Alaska, the military, or supports any real
use for the national parks. It subsidizes the hell out of the timber industry though. I don’t see your point, I don’t see how it supports your argument, and I doubt any intelligent person would either.
TNT, I’m sure your referring to the butterfly ballot
as far as the Florida debacle goes. Remember that Teresa Lepore was a former republican, and in the minds of many, never really left the republican party. Yes, she designed the ballots. As screwy as they were, most of the residents figured out how to use it, with the exception of a couple hundred senior citizens.
So if you’re going to call a bunch of senior citizens dumb, have at it, those are your words, but don’t pretend to be anything you’re not.
One of you imbeciles made a ridiculous comment about red states sucking on the teat of government to a larger degree than blue states.
There are about ten sparsely populated western (red) states with large national parks, hundreds of thousands of miles of rural highways to be maintained, and military bases.
When you divide the large amount of federal flow of dollars by the very small populations of these states, it may appear (to an idiot) that they are getting a big handout. This is pretty stupid.
Nothing whatsoever is proven by a comparison of red state/blue state flow of federal dollars. There are simply too many variables for it to be meaningful.
It’s unbelievably to see a Republican step forward.
As for Kos, he seems to be just one more Dem who is more concerned about criticizing radicals in his party than radicals in the other party.
I have also had a hunch that the election fraud is perhaps two-tiered. There seem to be far too many elections which run neck-and-neck for most of the race until they flip for the GOP at the very end. The "neck-and-neck" part is also rigged, I suspect. It is all part of the fascist GOP’s election rigging model. It is becoming so predictable.
It is interesting to note that Wayne Madsen has remarked aabout these discrepancies in the Ohio 2nd district vote on his website (http://www.waynemadsenreport.com/) and referenced Clint Curtis, too. Notice in the left hand column he makes similar comments about the DailyKos website as being linked to the DLC and being faux progressive/Democrat.
He is publishing a lot of interesting stuff on his website lately. He seems to be privy to a lot of insider intelligence due to his past career in the military and the NSA. I think this blog’s readers should be paying attention to what he is saying about the relationship of the Bushes with Coin-gate in Ohio and espionage by Larry Franklin & AIPAC, election fraud, etc. There may be a lot more connections between these seeming disparate scandals than appears obvious on the surface.
Horcus says…
"I don’t see your point, I don’t see how it supports your argument, and I doubt any intelligent person would either."
He no doubt misses the irony of his statement, as well.
RLM #47
That all makes sense until one considers "Teacher, leave those kids alone" in "Just Another Brick In The Wall" …
I can’t figure out a coherent ideology based upon IQ or party affiliation alone …
I think we gotta figure in the heart to get to the place where "US and THEM" does not invoke some hypnotic trance or narcissic mantra …?????
If you replace "G.O.P." or "D.N.C" with neocon, then I am getting interested … after all … what is a "state", "red state", or "blue state" after all?
TNT,
You’re wrong once again. CLICK HERE and stop complaining to see how wrong you are. Maybe its time to FIX this hmm?
By the way Hackett’s race was stolen. How about instead of complaining, we MARCH like the 190,000 people who marched today and yesterday in ATLANTA?!???
We all are aware Kenneth Blackwell and Denny White are crooks!!!! So lets march, and put an end to fraud!!!
80% of the disenfranchised voters in the special election were **republicans** , why the hell should we NOT fight!??!??? Get over it, right?
Doug E.
I wasn’t being ideological, Dredd. This dumb troll tried to make a case that when people are disenfranchised it’s their own fault, and that those people don’t know what they’re voting for, anyway (my interpretation of his words).
For every semi-senile person in Florida who couldn’t figure out butterfly ballots, and for every uneducated black person in a ghetto who doesn’t understand the issues (all told, a tiny number), there are literally millions of rednecks who think Bush is great because he "kicks ass" in Iraq. These are the same clowns who worship NASCAR drivers and have never been inside a library in their lives. Not all are in red states, but most are. There are also millions of "Christian" conservatives (in quotes because they don’t follow Christ’s teachings) who have swallowed the idea that Bush is God’s messenger on Earth, sent to purge mankind from sinful liberals. Only people who park their brains outside a church before entering could ever believe such a thing (God couldn’t possibly have been so dumb as to choose Bush), but these are the same folks who don’t believe in Darwin…so at least they’re consistent.
I cited states with low educational standards (Alabama and Mississippi are the worst) because there is a direct correlation between the amount of money states spend on education and the intelligence level of the citizenry (not surprisingly). Alabama and Mississippi happen to be two of Bush’s best states. Another is Utah, which is basically a Mormon theocracy.
All in all, it’s not ideological, but geographical.
An incident happened Friday I would like to share. I work with an audit analyst and like most, we discuss politics. He voted for Bush and I didn’t. He thinks Bush should nuke Iraq! Whoa — I told him, WE invaded Iraq! They did nothing to us – just harsh language and empty threats! Iraqi’s didn’t do 9-11. By the way, this embicile is a regular self professed "Christian". He can quote Bible passages, he sings in the choir, plays John the Baptist in church plays, goes to church every Sunday and twice during the week. This is the mentality we are dealing with. I feel I’m working with Klan! He chuckles about the elections – if it’s not on CNN, it doesn’t exist!
My question to TNT, if he’s from Clermont County, is this: TNT, why do you think over half the voters in Clermont County voted against an Iraq War vet, for a Republican who has been proven to have lied about knowing Mr. Noe from the coingate scandal?
From experience, I know you will not answer this question, or you will post something, but not answer that specific question. I think we’re all catching onto where GOP backers are coming from. They can’t answer questions.
GUAR-ON-TEED…he won’t answer that question.
Which only backs my conclusion I came to quite a while ago…You can’t engage in intelligent debate with a conservative. They dodge direct questions. Even if you try to get somewhere with a conservative, you can’t.
Just look up the word "conservative"! Tunnel-vision, not open to debate, unquestionably adhere to certain rules, not open to new ideas or free thought. The word "conservative" is actually a negative term, the word "liberal" is open-minded to knew ideas. The word "liberal" is a complimentary word.
There is little or no correlation between Christ’s teachings and the beliefs of Bible belt Christians in fundamentalist or charismatic churches. "Nuke Iraq" is a dramatic example, but not aberrational.
Historically, we’re going through a period almost identical to 200 years ago. Then Thomas Jefferson (bless his heart) went to the trouble of seeking the historical Jesus, and wrote the Jefferson Bible. It separated out Jesus’ life from the spriritual dogma that had attached itself to it. Jefferson said to the public, "This is what Jesus taught. Hear, hear!"
#60 Big Dan,
TNT has same m.o. as Karla, same talking points, same kind of insults. As Kira said, Kkkarla’s back. I don’t think TNT is a Rep troll- if party at all it’s Libertarian/ Elitist. Karla/ Buckshot/ Shirley (aka TNT?) has been restricted on several discussion boards (research by Kira) for being disruptive– a blog stalker.
Thanks for the heads up about Kos. Have noticed the chilling effect of censorshio on that site, esp. voter fraud. Now know why. Armmando came out against the DLC and got 500 comments…mostly glad for his diary. Today…a Gail Shaheen diary got long and hot, referring to the secret service as S.S. One of their headliners took offense at the abbreviation. Want to be politically correct and powerful…do not keep smart bloggers. I see them as losers, just needed a validation. because I have really enjoyed that site in the past.
basically TNT is saying IOKIYAR, that it’s ok when the GOP does anything sleazy, unethical or illegal to get elected because that’s the way things are done and Democrats should just deal with it, nay, bend over and take it with glee.
One has to wonder what his belief structure would be if the Democrats were now controlling the WH and Congress through such dubious means. Would he lay down his Queen and say Good Game?
and BTW, the GOP created the current level of partisanship in Democrats. they have lied, denounced, ignored and ridiculed everything we hold dear and removed us from any amount of governing they can. who would have thought a donkey would get pissed after you spent 5 years kicking it in the nuts?
go figure.
Molly:
They are against all who claim conspiracies, for the most part. Wouldn’t be surprised if the majority of them are DLC….
COUNT THE VOTE NOW
In re #7: Junebug…
Thanks for the link to dailyKOS. I don’t get there very often (probably only 10 times in the last year) and have never comletely understood that environment.
After reading that LONG thread (diary?) on Saturday night (it’s probably even LONGER now), I understand a whole lot more.
One thing I think I understand is that KOS is trying to become a "mainstream BLOG" if such a thing exists. That is, a blog that is "respected by and reported on by the mainstream media." Of course, to do that, they must remove any "fringe elements" that would sully their brand.
Personally, I think it is the most ill-conceived long-term strategy that I can imagine.
At least for ME, places like bradblog, rawstory, buzzwatch, truthout and even whatreallyhappened (though I find their "Isreal is trying to destroy the world" sub-theme to be a bit over-the-top on some days) to be where I go to get the info I can’t get from the MSM (right wing media controlled that it is). I have given up on CNN, MSNBC, Yahoo, Associated Press, and of course Fox. I have even given up on NPR, when I heard them have an interview with a govt. rep from Florida who said that "they were glad they were able to stop the Democrats from their attempt to steal the election in Florida" and the hostess didn’t even stop to go "what the F&*^ are you talking about?"
So, if KOS wants to be the MSM, I think they should go right ahead. I think they will find they have hitched their wagon to the wrong star.
I would rather be here on the "fringe" where people still have the right to talk about issues without being told they will be banned for even IMAGINING that an election could be stolen.
Charlie L
Portland, OR
Charlie L, I’m in 100% agreement with you. Freedom of Speech is dying. I’m not interested in any group that wants to suppress Freedom of Speech.
Whoops! "not interested" in supporting "any group that wants to suppress Freedom of Speech," I meant to say!