CLAP CLAP CLAP!!! But come on, we're still in the blogosphere. I'd like to hear Jim spout off during half-time of an NBA playoff game, while the cheerleaders shake the booties that will soon be illegal in Texas, where else? Come on, Jim, when a ref calls a cheap foul or overlooks a blatant one, please get into the political metaphor! We LOVE the msm people who stand up for us! Please, Jim, try to get together with Krugman, Herbert, Alexandrovna, and of course Friedman. A journey of a thousand miles... We've taken the first steps, now let's march

Yay!!!!

BTW, does the persistent media impotency have anything to do with this old article out of the Freedom of Infomation Center, University of Missouri School of Journalism:

secrets act

Way to go, Lampley. I was wondering how long it would take before a celeb blogger not only said something stupid, but so stupid that it would rile up enough people that it might affect their cushy media job. I hope Jim Lampley takes serious shit for this crazy nonsense. When you have views this extreme you should keep them to yourself. That goes for the right, too. If Lampley said we should just nuke the whole Middle East to end this war on terror, I'd think it to be as extreme as the comments he did post... and I seriously hope there is the kind of backlash he now deserves.

Wake Up!!!
And
Welcome aboard. Maybe you should look at what the British government said how Blair was backing Bush prior to 911 to attack Iraq...all they needed was the excuse (ie:Bushit intelligence). Also check out the other crap his administration has approved. My idea is to impeach and jail all the corrupt snakes Cheney, Rice, Gonzalez, Blackwell etc. and have a new legitimate election this fall. Why not fire all the robots in congress that voted to accept the fraudulent election last January 6th, 2005? Hold all politicians accountable by showing what each voted on for free in all the mass media papers, cap corporate contribution and go to www.votecobb.org and use the new voters rights resolution ideas. This time don't count the votes in secrecy by private companies which gave to the Bush-Cheney campaign. Eliminate the hackable electronic voting systems and produce countable verifyable paper ballot trails. Don't let filth like Kenneth Blackwell Secretary of State cochair to the Bush-Cheney reelection campaign in Ohio cheat and stonewall efforts for a legitimate election. Free and Open elections is what can restore faith in our Democratic political system.

After scanning this piece by Lampley on Bradblog, I was excitedly preparing an email to my mom (& others on my email list), giving them a link to Huffington Post. But when I went to Huffington Post, I looked & looked & looked --- and looked --- and finally figured out where this story's hiding. Needless to say I'm dismayed to find it is not listed under the "Featured Posts."

Well --- at least Rob Reiner's story "Where Have You Gone Woodward & Bernstein?" made the cut.

I hope Huffington Post with its mix will capture lots of traffic & hopefully opening some eyes out there.

CB, you obviously know something I don't. Please be the first to address this part of Lampley's post (seriously, I mean);

"NEVER have exit polls varied by beyond-error margins in a single state, not since 1948 when this kind of polling began. In this past election it happened in ten states, all of them swing states, all of them in Bush's favor."

He didn't mention the strong correspondence between exit poll anomalies and ballots without paper trails.

Asking for anomalies to be explained does not constitute a conspiracy theory.

Bravo to Lampley! But I couldn't even find this when I went to huffingtonpost.com. Talk about burying the lead! Also the link to Lampley was broken. I wanted to send him a mail thanking him, but no dice.

This is great--getting the word out--but when the media is so EFFED UP that they do not even pick up the story about the "smoking memo" which proves Bush lied and is a mass murderer, what hope do any of us have???

Seriously, it would take someone famous and bold to SPEAK OUT, or else three years from now we'll all still be blogging and bitching and moaning about the fact that Condi and Frist will be "elected" in '08 and no one challenging its legitmacy. Is NO ONE in the major media willing to put their reputations on the line to save America??? I'd do it in a heartbeat if I had any juice at all.

Where the heck is Michael Moore on this issue? Why the silence? Has he received death threats? He of all people must know the truth. And whatever happened with John Conyers' visit with Jimmy carter and the Commission?

CB, you are an obvious troll with nothing better to do that kiss Karl Rove's ass. This administration will go down in history as the most corrupt, vile, unethical and loathful in the nation's history. The earth is not flat just because Bush Inc says it is. You sure are not coming to BradBlog to be enlightened, or at least that is not the result. You just come here to spout your right wing talking points. Be forewarned, the tide is turning and it will reach critical mass and Bush et al will be disgraced in the eyes of the world. The emporer will be shown not to have any clothes.

The 'CB' #3 outburst is like he took a sharp right turn on a rained on slippery road. Happy skids! to him.

I'm with Kira and Jim. I backtracked to the homepage from Brad's link and then tried to find the article. Buried. It should at least have been "featured," as explosive as its subject matter is. I wonder how many will actually find and read it.

CB #3 --- obviously unable to do math or understand Graduate School material.

Kira #5
I just went to Huffingtonpost.com
and there was the Lampley letter hiding in plain sight --on the left under Arianna.

CB,
Gotta thank you for being there and being openly inane in your comments. Otherwise, I suspect we forget that there truly are blind, unthinking people hanging around that have bought the Party line, hook line and sinker, and are willing, even eager to live in complete denial of all that has come to light about the 2004 election and all the way back to GW's fraudulent push for war in Iraq.

With your blind allegiance to a Bush doctrine of deceit and disaster for America, it really is important that you continue to stick around and throw your unbelievably naive comments into this type of forum. It will keep everyone on their toes and do more to pull this group of people together than one can ever imagine.

Similarly, GW has done wonders for the Democrats. Never have they been so united and driven. When GW finally pulls his biggest outrage against humanity and a US city is being nuked to bring the Republican agenda into it's full glory, would you be so kind as to provide the name of the City you are residing in. That way you can be one of the lead volunteers as they scorch a city in the name of the New Republican Order. Thanks CB

Brad- can you book him for Saturdays show?

Cole #12

Well --- ok. I see Jim Lampley's (linked) name, but no front page notice of the title "The Biggest Story of Our Lives." Too bad the BIGGEST STORY OF OUR LIVES isn't in large point, Bold typeface. ***Like This Story*** Really Old Size 10 Shoe Found.

More headway still. It comes slow but it does, and I know that it will continue. It's pretty amazing they were able to keep a lid on it for as long as they did.

Kira
I agree, this is letter should have been a big leader and with a banner lead on, rather than just a link.

Not to defend the new Huffington post, they have a lot of leads and links, so they are new and may not have the good taste that we have for what should be on the first page. We may have to educate them.

I only got the E that alerted me to that they are now live yesterday. Give them a bit of time.

How are we going to "reverse" a stolen election..if any news or hope is buried? I am surprised that Huffinton Post didn't think it Headline News.....

Hi Cole! I know, I got the email yesterday, too. I know they're new & just getting their "legs" for what their site will be doing. And I don't have a lot of patience left --- but we probably have a chance at exposure with Huffington's "across the aisle" approach ('though I'm not too happy about having to look at creepy joe scarborough's ugly mug every day )

I am happy Cronkite has an outlet on the 'net. I hope Dan Rather will hop on board, too.

Jim Cirile asked (#7),Where is Michael Moore?

I am baffled by that as well. He sent an email out to his mailing list about a month ago asking what we should do next. I couldn't even believe he had to ask. I replied that he should expose the corrupt electoral process and included links to Velvet Revolution and BradBlog.
It really is a mystery to me why he has shied away from this topic.

They captured the throne and have put out the fire, but the smoke is still there......!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buck Fush lying piece of shit

Buck Fush lying piece of shit

Sorry about the OT but Tristan Egolf Dead

Michael Moore & Raw Story have a little coverage, but the Newspaper requires subscription. I got it on cache.

Also check out : The Smoketown Six

I wonder what happened.

I don't havemuch patience left either. And I may not be able to tolerate the attempt at balance, al la Crossfire stuff.

What for? 'They' kick anyone out of heavily controlled gatherings and exclude anyone that even has a hint of dissent, so why does a 'left' blog need to give them more air time? And if the site is not 'left' then I have no need for it. Bilateralism is only a tool for 'them' to use when they demand 'their' way and want to look reasonable.

The Huffington site also wants to have a heavy editorial hand in what and how a comment gets posted. So free speach it may not be.

We all have to remember is that some republicans like CB don't believe in scientific evidence. It's hard to believe but CB is one of those people stuck in the Bush Bizarro world where up is down and 3+2=. They just don't understand logical thought and the process it takes to come to a conclusion. The unfortunate thing is that there are so many of them. The much more unfortunate thing is the fact that they are becoming increasingly hard to be around. Free thinkers they will never be.

Hey CB,
Missed your words before I posted. Does CB stand for CRAP for Brains? If you never studied any of the information available on the 2004 rigged presidential election and the only air you breathed was George W's propaganda farts it would still not forgive your uneducated viewpoint on the facts about the last 2 elections. It's ironic that it's your asssholish mentality is what currently wins the day in this country.

Alison #14 --- "Brad- can you book him for Saturdays show?"

Which one, CB or Lampley?

(I'm not kidding!)

If you want to notch up your anger a little more, here's a story that IS in the MSM today: Possible Voter Fraud Found in Milwaukee. I'm sure the Republican Party and groups like ACVR will run with this one for all it's worth while the MSM continues to ignore the "elephant" in the room.

I think Miss Persistent is probably, at least in part, correct. But, the large media have a lot invested in maintaining their Freedom of Speech rights, so they should get their butts in gear and fight Bush --- along with everyone else who has a brain.

Maybe the US Tourism industry will help bring down the rogue Bush Administration. Check this out: US tourism ‘losing billions because of image’

Kira #28 - Lampley.
I could care less about CB.

oops-meant to type I could not care less about CB.

Alison - hehe! Actually I meant it would be fun if CB came on the show!! Just a depraved moment.

CB said on 5/10/2005 @ 11:17am PT:
"Way to go, Lampley. I was wondering how long it would take before a celeb blogger not only said something stupid, but so stupid that it would rile up enough people that it might affect their cushy media job. I hope Jim Lampley takes serious shit for this crazy nonsense. When you have views this extreme you should keep them to yourself. That goes for the right, too. If Lampley said we should just nuke the whole Middle East to end this war on terror, I'd think it to be as extreme as the comments he did post... and I seriously hope there is the kind of backlash he now deserves."

This is an example of "balance" --- a non-Bushist accusation that the Leader is illegitimate is "balanced" by a pro-Bushist call to attack multiple Middle Eastern nations with nuclear weapons. The equation is depraved and to reveal this depravity is an excellent argument in favor of liberalism.

Anybody got the email addy for Jim Lampley ,I'd like to thank him for posting some "crazy nonsense".

You guys are hilarious, really. I suggest that Lampley's reliance on Las Vegas bookies to make his point is absurd and I get called all kinds of names, including - gasp - republican. I hope you nitwits are having a good time, because you're alienatine your allies in the process.

CB #37
I worried about you on your reckless driving, jerking right on slick troads and now you add DUI to the risks.

sorry that should be roads--the extra 't' is yours as a momento

Yes, CB, we are hilarious. Get over it. Now, share with us poor mortals the source of your confidence in electronic voting. Never mind the Las Vegas bookies.

Bottom line - do you have anything substantive to offer, other than obscene equivalences between suspecting voter fraud, and advocating nuclear holocaust in the Middle East (right on, Chemo-Electric Trashman)?

C.B. -

You belittle Vegas bookies, yet as a shallow, materialistic republican, you should know it's money that matters.
Also, we're still waiting for your 'analysis' or explaination of why the exit polls were , for the first time in history, outside the margin of error.
I'm sure you have been called lots of names, and are obviously use to it, but this is for me.
You are the scum of the Earth.
It's people like you who are enabling the trashing of the only known life-bearing planet in the universe. You stupid asshole!!! :angry:

Another story on Huffington from Byron York satirizing and refuting the J Lampley story.
www.huffingtonpost.com/t...chive/2005/05/index.html

Check out Myrons bio if you don't know who he is, (I did because I forgot).

So, the parody of Jim's logic is good. Jim didn't really state his case too well. And he raises a good q, why isn't the Dem Parte using the stats reports to reveal this story? On the other hand how can ALL of the media not see the incredible danger of the current system?

Bizzaro World indeed.

All I mean is that a 2-1 Kerry-will-win line at 5pm on Election Day is NOT an indicator of ANYTHING. That's IT. I never said anything about exit polls or computer voting or stolen elections yet I am still attacked as "the scum of the earth" for ridiculing Lampley's reliance on a bad line as the basis for his theory. Again, you nitwits are fascinating. If you knew my views and looked at how you were attacking me you'd all be ashamed, except that none of you have any sense of shame.

For the third time; CB, please share with us your views, so that we can be suitably ashamed. You are offering nothing other than ridicule, which is a standard conservative response. Enlighten us. We are, after all, hilarious nitwits. Have you no compassion?

Trust me, I have a sense of shame. My species nurtures it every day (insert lame conservative response here).

MMIIXX #36 - no email addy but they have this:

Contact the Huffington Post with scoops, and firsthand accounts at: AOL Instant Messenger: HuffPost. Email: scoop@huffingtonpost.com
Or submit your scoop here

Scroll down, it's in the middle column.

CB #3 said "When you have views this extreme you should keep them to yourself. That goes for the right, too."

First of all, if the polls deviate EXTREMELY from the final election 2004 tally - and they did, extremely, more than EVER, since the 1940's - we should ALL be very upset! This information should NEVER be kept secret from the population as a whole.

For the mainstream media and people like you to approve of keeping this information away from U.S. Citizens by little or NO reporting, you are supporting a KGB/Iron Curtain environment. People cannot make educated decisions if they are not provided with an opportunity to hear, view and study both sides of an issue.

As far as extremism on the Right --- start telling your Party people to stop being extremists! Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay, Tom Feeney, Bill Frist, Dick Cheney, Karl Rove, Wolfowitz, Gonzalez, etc. etc. etc.

CB:-
"If you knew my views and looked at how you were attacking me you'd all be ashamed, except that none of you have any sense of shame."

Enlighten me please.
g.w.bush the 1 million to 1 president
(odd or odds)

CB said "If you knew my views and looked at how you were attacking me you'd all be ashamed"

So --- what exactly are your views?

Never mind CB, folks. He's a distraction, whatever his real views are. I couldn't care less.

Hurray for Jim Lampley. He's one voice, but he's also a recognizable name, which counts for more than Robert Koehler, even though Koehler's article might have been better written. Why? Because we live in a celebrity culture.

Steve, I have to argue with you about Wisconsin. There has been a lot of sturm and drang about Democrat fraud there ever since the election. If we try to pretend it isn't possible that the Democrats cheated, too, we weaken our case for alleging that Ohio, Florida, and New Mexico were stolen by the Republicans (and Nevada?). Our best chance to get moderates on Capitol Hill to look at election fraud issues is to do so on a non-partisan (as distinct from bi-partisan) basis.

Remember, Wisconsin was the only swing state (out of 11) where the exit polls and tabulated vote matched closely. That could reflect offsetting fraud on both sides, which canceled out. Conceivably Bush won Wisconsin. But there is no doubt in my mind that Kerry won Ohio, Florida, and New Mexico, and he probably won Nevada as well.

KIRA #42
Just been listening to some of Tristan Egolf's last words, - bloody tragic news!
Thanks, haven't come accross Windmills Radio before.

that's [across]!

Yes - Democrats cheat too. But, not only that, I believe a lot of Democrats holding official positions at the Boards of Elections are really Republicans who registered as Democrat & got themselves elected to these Boards. (Just like Georgia's SOS Cathy Cox, who most definitely is a Republican in Democrat Clothing.) How can you lose if you have a candiate on both sides?

I think it would be very interesting to do a study on the Democrat BOE officials & their previous political leanings.

For example --- Theresa LePore (Madame Butterfly Ballot) who was Republican but turned Democrat long enough to design & implement the infamous "Butterfly Ballot."

See Greg Palast:

Madame Butterfly Flies Off with Ballots --- Florida Fixed Again?
Absentee Ballots Go Absent
Tuesday, August 31, 2004

by Greg Palast in commondreams.org

"On Friday, Theresa LePore, Supervisor of Elections in Palm Beach, candidate for re-election as Supervisor of Elections, chose to supervise her own election, no one allowed. This Tuesday, Florida votes for these nominally non-partisan posts.

You remember Theresa, "Madame Butterfly," the one whose ballots brought in the big vote for Pat Buchanan in the Jewish precincts in November 2000. Then she failed to do the hand count that would have changed the White House from Red to Blue.

This time, Theresa's in a hurry to get to the counting. She began tallying absentee ballots on Friday in her own re-election race. Not to worry: the law requires the Supervisor of Elections in each county to certify poll-watchers to observe the count.

But Theresa has a better idea. She refused to certify a single poll-watcher from opponents' organizations despite the legal requirement she do so by last week. She'll count her own votes herself, thank you very much!

........ Theresa and the Jebster have been quite close since LePore came out of the closet. The Republican-turned-Democrat, nominally independent, this year accepted the sticky embrace of the Republican Party. One really has to wonder if she ever truly left the Republicans in the first place." ***more***

I'm sorry - I missed giving the link to Palast's story:

Madame Butterfly

"HUFFINGTON POST: Bush Re-election 'Biggest Crime in History of the WORLD'!"

OT: Go here to thank Conyers for using the "L" word and to support his efforts on behalf of this country.

Arghhhh! What good is the Huffington blog if you can't post a reply? I'd love to refute Byron York's claims. That was atrocious.

Lampley did make reply though.

I have to agree with the previously stated position that we should forget CB; some people just like to see the reaction they get from others by being an a** hole. Raw Story gave this item bigger billing, which is where I picked it up. The message is spreading.

RLM #49-

I should clarify my point (#29). I realize that there has been speculation, evidence AND EVEN SOME MAINSTREAM PRESS about possible Democratic fraud in Wisconsin. It's one of the things the Republicans and ACVR trot out as "the real fraud" in the 2004 election. I don't doubt that there was such fraud, and I'm not condoning it. I believe that both parties have engaged in this kind of fraud forever. What I'm trying to say is that the kind of massive fraud that is possible with paperless electronic voting can change, and, compelling evidence shows, has changed an election in ways that were never possible before. Claims of the kind of small scale fraud by Democrats evidenced by this article are being used to obfuscate the evidence for and derail any investigation of the "Biggest Crime in the History of the Nation" (ie-the elephant in the room). All we hear about in the MSM is the evidence of this small-time fraud that could not remotely have the impact of the grand scale fraud that likely occurred in this election. That was what I meant to allude to with my post The fact that it seems so obvious to me (and many others) but, apparently not the MSM, is what stirs my anger.

I am not trying to be an asshole, but do we have to agree with every blowhard's dumb-ass logic just because we agree with his conclusion? Lampley's argument is embarassing and while we should embrace his point about the election, can NO ONE here see how bad he makes that argument look with his stupid Vegas oddsmakers crap? THAT was the point of my original post and I can't beleive the shit I'm taking for that.

Let's say Lampley had said this: I checked with the Vegas oddsmakers the day before the election and George Bush was a +150 favorite to win (he was. honest. not saying it to rub in, but its a fact). That PROVES that the election is valid and these yip yaps talking about conspiracy should shut up.

Well that's the same lame argument Lampley gave in support of his allegation. We shouldn't embrace this kind of trash. It is the fodder by which we will be destroyed...although the rampant animosity present here suggests you're doing well on your own.

CB

I am not trying to be an asshole, but do we have to agree with every blowhard's dumb-ass logic just because we agree with his conclusion? Lampley's argument is embarassing and while we should embrace his point about the election, can NO ONE here see how bad he makes that argument look with his stupid Vegas oddsmakers crap? THAT was the point of my original post and I can't beleive the shit I'm taking for that.

Let's say Lampley had said this: I checked with the Vegas oddsmakers the day before the election and George Bush was a +150 favorite to win (he was. honest. not saying it to rub in, but its a fact). That PROVES that the election is valid and these yip yaps talking about conspiracy should shut up.

Well that's the same lame argument Lampley gave in support of his allegation. We shouldn't embrace this kind of trash. It is the fodder by which we will be destroyed...although the rampant animosity present here suggests you're doing well on your own.

CB

CB, I respect your opinion. However, our anger--and believe me, we are angry--is fueled by an unending stream of Republican lies and destructive, illogical policies. I'd accept a Bush victory if anyone could offer me proof he really won. But no one can, because the neocons have ensured we can't actually do a real recount anymore. And in fact, everyone involved--from Diebold to Jeb Bush--have a documented history of election fraud (see www.blackboxvoting.com for some of the cases won against Diebold.) So it's very hard to simply accept this.

In fact, we feel the major media has completely and deliberately dropped the ball--according to people I know in the biz, they've been FORCED to. The fact that last week, no major paper picked up the "smoking memo" story that proves Bush committed impeachable offenses makes it quite clear that the whole system is being controlled. So this is why we're pissed.

You seem a reasonable fellow, and I appreciate your input. Really, all we want to do is air this issue and weed out the bad guys. Yep, we are pretty riled up. But not at you per se--at the system.

--jc

Thanks for pointing me to this article. I sent the Huffington report a note asking them to place the Bradblog on their Blog Roll and pointing them to the Clint Curtiss and ACVR stories.

I'm sure if 6 or 7 others sent notes to 'scoop@huffingtonpost.com' and pointing them to some of his stories we might soon find him on their Blog Roll

#58 Steve

Jeb Bush put the mayor of Orlando on leave after the 04 election for complaints and allegations of registration fraud, by the loosing candidate.(R)

It took until April 20th for Buddy Dyer (D), to be reinstated, and completly cleared. No evidence.
Complaints and allegations only.

Hows that for a sample of 'real fraud'?

CB, to understand Vegas gambling is to understand that odds are given til the game is over.

For instance, in a football game, if team A leads team B by 21 points, you can still bet on team B with a higher payout or team A with a lower payout. The only way Vegas can know the the odds late in the game with the election is through exit polling. The exit polling showed kerry winning. Exit polling has never been as far off in an election as it has been with this one. Vegas take it's money very very seriously.

So, only two explanations for the polling/election mismatch exist. One, polling was wrong. Two, election fraudulent. Polling methods remain the same. Voting methods have not (Unverified electronic voting).
Lampley is right on. No cracks in the argument as far as I'm concerned.

How qiuick CB goes from an 'inclusive we' to a removal of himself by --"you're doing well on your own".

You don't understand how Vegas works at all. The sportsbooks do NOT move the line based on how they think the event will come out. They move the line solely on how people are betting. They make their money either way. Ever notice that if you bet both teams playing in a baseball game to win, you do NOT break even? It's called the vig. Well, if ten people suddenely bet one team, the house won't break even unless they move the line... and at 5pm on Election Day hell yeah the line said 2-1 Kerry... because everyone and their brother read about the exit polls and tried to sneak in a late bet. Ooops. Vegas knew shit. They only knew what the bettors were betting and they move their lines to protet their profit. Another reason why Lampley's post is so baffling. As a sports guy he should know this.

CB, again. VEGAS WON'T KNOW WHAT THE BETTORS ARE BETTING UNTIL THEY SET THE ODDS. Things can move up and down on the line based on the bettors, but that occurs mainly before the game starts. Late in the game, the oddsmakers can usually figure out the likelihood of the outcome. The line changes little to none late in the game.

How do they set the odds late in sports games? Likelihood of a comeback in general and history of the teams' performance in comebacks.

Your knowledge of sports betting is less than impressive. Seriously, who's telling you what to type?

Well, you are wrong AGAIN. The line moved quite a bit on the last day. I am a gambler. I followed the line at TheGreek.com. You can email them and they'll email you ahistory of their daily line, starting months before the election. Or 5Dimes.com Or any of the others. They all had virtually the same line. It was at -120 Bush +100 Kerry for months. Kerry pulled ahead to -150 over Bush's +135 after his convention, but Bush regained his slight edge up until election weekend. Bush got a slight bump to -150 himself after the Bin Laden tape. And stayed there until election morning. After Drudge and others posted info about the early exit polls, that line moved dramatically. Lines move all the time. If you get a big bet late, or a series of them, you do an offset to carry that line over. You always watch your bottom line. You can lecture me on Lampley and my dumb opinions, fine, but Lamps is wrong on the gambling, so quit while you're ahead.

Steve #58 -

Great post. Did anyone actually SEE the

As far as "the vig" is concerned. That pertains to payouts
as opposed to true odds payouts.

For instance, in roulette, there are 38 numbers on the table. Payouts are usually 35-1 with a 38-1 chance on winning. The "vig" is a failed argument. Don't confuse the issue.

???

Did theyhave to????

CB, you're post #68.

Those are all pre-election line changes. Not changes during the time of the election. When I say late in the game, I mean late in the day of the election.

Now I know you're full of shit.

Do not be fooled by CB folks. He is part of a disinfo group. He is not interested in election reform in the least. And his moderated change in tone as the discussion went on ("can NO ONE here see how bad he makes that argument look with his stupid Vegas oddsmakers crap? THAT was the point of my original post and I can't beleive the shit I'm taking for that.") is horseshit.

He was not given shit for that point, which he didn't even make in his original post. He was given shit (deservedly, though it's mostly a waste of time) for calling attempting to discredit Lampley's character since he couldn't dismantle his argument. He received further shit for calling folks here "nitwits" and other attacks in lieu of actual discourse.

By the end, as are all of these disinfo guys, he's "concerned that it will hurt our movement", or whatever he actually said.

Don't be fooled. He's part of a collective group of disinfo artists and is to simply be ignored.

I hope you will ignore this post on the matter as well, and get back to making noise about the Lampley post!

While we're at it, I agree that Huffington Post ought to include The BRAD BLOG on it's BlogRoll! But it doesn't! Nor does it include RAW STORY!

Getting writing! Make some noise! (Scoop@HuffingtonPost.com)

CB -

Enlighten yourself. OF COURSE the odds-makers were betting on B***! They KNOW how books are cooked!! For heaven's sake, they were betting on a sure thing!!!

But they also know that books ARE cooked and how it's done. Believe it, CB; this article is no foolish, laughable venture into la-la land. It's right on.

Sorry, Brad - our posts coincided.

Sorry ,Brad, gambling used to be my favorite "hobby".
It got me riled up. Didn't mean to get off topic, but I think it's still important to call out all the fakes.

I'll take my gambling opinions to a Gambling blog in the future. So long ,CB. Good luck on all your future "winnings".

What a self congratulation society this is, geez.

The line did NOT open at 2-1 Kerry, it moved there. Period. You site me a source that says different. There, I win.

You guys should really shut up about Jim Lampley. If his blog post goes into obscurity, he'll get off scott free. But you keep hyping him up and the mainstream fucktards get a hold of his goofy gambling theory and the next thing you know he is pulled off the mainstream NBC Olympics due to boycott pressure. It will happen. Why hurt a man you claim to admire financially like that. Leave him alone.

Rob G (#6), you put it so simply: exit polls, exit polls, EXIT POLLS!!! They're accurate, Goddamn it, they're accurate. This is the one thing thay'll never explain away. Jim Lampley? A logical-thinking American, with the guts to say "The emperor has no clothes!" out loud! CB? Another pathetic soul with his head in the sand.

Jim is great. And what better person than a renowned sportscaster to report when a contest, no matter what kind, has been "rigged," or "gamed," by one person or team so that team will win.

Whether boxing, horseracing, baseball, the Olympics, or a presidential race, when one side or the other uses "doping," "steroids," or tampering with electronic voting machines to supposedly "win" a presumedly "fair" contest, then Jim, I would hope, would report the FACTS, or even his suspicions, so that a thorough investigation could occur.

I don't like the idea of creeps screwing around with our Sports results. And I definitely don't like the idea of power-hungry, power-mad politicians screwing around with our electoral process.

So, since the Republican-controlled Congress won't check into these suspicious election results, I believe it is time to call in the Sports Commissioner to investigate this possible "gaming" of our democracy. And Jim can be the prosecutor. Maybe then we freedom-loving, patriotic U.S. citizens (and military veterans like myself) could get to the bottom of what really happened last November.

Otherwise, we will all be left holding the bag. Or should I say, the "body bags" of all our brave and obedient soldiers...who literally died and continue to die for nothing over in Iraq.

G'night, all. Please... stay right-side-up and sane. There are FAR too many CD's.

Jim Lampley is a boxing broadcaster now. The difference between a guy who covers prize fights and other sportscasters is that his business has been presumed crooked for years...and is. I'm sure Jim Lampley could tell you which of the fights he's covered were honest and which weren't.

The last televised fight I watched from beginning to end was a title fight in Atlantic City about 10 years ago involving Michael Spinks. As I recall his opponent was named "Davis." Davis won nearly every round, boxed rings around Spinks, and not only didn't they give him the decision, but Spinks was called the winner by a wide margin. All I could think of was my late father's warning, "Bobby, don't ever bet on a prize fight." It was disgraceful.

Davis was from Delaware. As I recall it, Delaware's congressman had seen the fight on TV himself, and was horrified. He launched an investigation, which went nowhere. The lesson? Powerful forces are at work behind the scenes whenever a title fight or an election is rigged.

By the way, if anyone is still worried about CB and his Las Vegas analysis, remember what happened in Ireland. That's where Intrade is located, and where the REALLY BIG BETS are placed on world events. Intrade called EVERY SINGLE STATE correctly in the 2004 election, a possibility so remote Las Vegas oddsmakers wouldn't even book it.

This tells us about vote rigging. The big bettors knew where it was being done; once you've rigged a machine to flip votes from Kerry to Bush in a state, all that's needed is a few people to monitor the count to make sure enough votes have been flipped. In fact, the riggers didn't do a perfect job; in Pennsylvania, the exit polls showed Kerry 8% ahead and he won by 2%...in other words, they flipped 6% of the votes, and it wasn't enough.

THE EXIT POLLS ARE NOT SUBJECT TO RIGGING, BECAUSE THEY REFLECT INDIVIDUAL VOTERS' STATED PREFERENCES. THEY ARE NOT ELECTRONIC. THEY ARE NOT FLIPPABLE, THEY DON'T HAVE SOURCE CODES, AND THEY WERE DEADLY ACCURATE IN EVERY STATE THAT USED PAPER BALLOTS PREDOMINANTLY. THEY WERE ALSO DEADLY ACCURATE IN THE FLORIDA SENATE RACE.

Jim Lampley is smart enough to understand this. Let's make sure other sites link up with huffingtonpost.com, so that the word gets out.

I have to applaud the brave stand taken by Jim Lampley, a respected veteran sports broadcasting figure. He must feel impassioned to step out of his normal role and articulate a position that hits so many nerve endings.

His thought process and terse style are to be admired. His logic and arguments re: the "margins of error" deviations should stimulate controversy and move the experts to hone in on the specific trouble spots re: our elections.

I think it was ABC that televised the Spinks-Davis light-heavyweight title fight I referred to. Jim Lampley might have been at the microphone, in fact; whether he was or not, I'm sure he remembers the fight itself, and would confirm privately that it was as crooked as the yellow brick road.

If anyone out there is troubled by CB's references to Las Vegas bookmakers, don't be. The laws of mathematics don't change with the odds on a prizefight or an election...they've stayed the same since the days of Archimedes and Pythagoras.

Just for the record, friends...when Intrade called every state correctly in November, it defied the odds in a breathtaking way. For starters, there were 11 swing states, regarded as tossups, each of which used mostly electronic balloting. The random chance of a tossup (50-50) state being called correctly is, obviously, 1 out of 2, or 50%. The random chance of 11 tossup states being called correctly is 2 to the 11th power...that works out to be 1 in 2048, or less than 1/2 of 1 percent.

But there were 39 other states, and Intrade got all of them right, too. I haven't the time to calculate the random chance of that happening, but it's somewhere in the stratosphere...probably one in several billion.

Jim Lampley's article was debunked on huffingtonpost.com by some imbecile who used the Kentucky Derby as a comparison. The argument went as follows: Experts thought Bellamy Road would win, but Giacomo (a 50-1 shot) won instead, thus, by the logic of election protestors, people who bet on Bellamy Road were entitled to believe the race was fixed, just as Kerry voters think the election was fixed (because their man lost).

Of course, this analogy is intellectually bankrupt, because exit pollsters don't ask voters, "WHO DO YOU THINK WILL WIN?" They ask, "WHOM DID YOU VOTE FOR?" Exit polls don't PREDICT the outcome (although the networks do use them for this, unethically in my view), they COMPUTE. Exit polls are a separate tabulation of votes, not a handicapping mechanism or odds-making device.

Jim Lampley makes a telling point that no neo-con can rebut. Since 1948, when exit polls began, NO INDIVIDUAL STATE, LET ALONE AN ENTIRE COUNTRY, HAS SEEN ITS TABULATED VOTE DIVERGE FROM THE EXIT POLLS BY 5-1/2%. For it to have happened nationwide permits no other conclusion than that the election was stolen.

Lampley's article is a break in this story because
he's a familiar face. The folks in Vegas know what
happened with the election and it's "outcome." Ask
the disbelievers why five weeks after his second
coronation King George suddenly has the lowest
approval rating of any president in his second term.
We still have the general malaise of the economy
and his illegal war, but nothing dramatic happened
to change his fortunes. A majority disapprove of him and they also didn't vote for him. His 51% man-date exists only in his mind and corrupt voting machines.

Kudo's to Lampley, I enjoy reading his easy logic. Im sure from reading this thread that many of you have already read the well done study by the National Election Data Archive Project titled "Analysis of the 2004 Presidential Election Exit Poll Discrepancies" Its seems to be a honest look at the numbers and gives all sides explanation of why the exit polls were so wrong and the probability of that being the case. Its a bit long but interesting reading, also gives many graphs for those just wanting to give it as quick scan.

Link to study: http://electionarchive.o...2004_Edison-Mitofsky.pdf

First, before anyone attacks me, let me say I voted for Kerry and was just as depressed as anyone else when he lost. That said, y'all gotta move on. The election wasn't fixed. First, the exit polls were weighted poorly. In fact, in just about every election of the last few decades, unweighted exit polls have shown the Democrat getting a LOT more votes than he actually ended up with. Dems are, apparently, just nicer people and more willing to answer questions.
The early polls released on election day had not been fully weighted. Every pollster as gone back and readjusted their numbers and they all admit it was their error and not evidence of fraud.
Just because it's really hard to believe that this country could re-elect a guy like Bush, it happened. The best and really only course of action at this point is to acknowledge the truth. Spouting off wild conspiracy theories isn't going to make anyone want to rejoin the Democratic party. The way to get people back is to communicate, to persuade, to adjust. Wasting energy on fighting windmills will get Democrats nowhere.

For Shawn: The point about the analysis by the N.E.D.A.P. is that they examined possibly benign explanations for the exit poll/tabulated vote discrepancies...and found them wanting. That leaves fraud as the only plausible answer.

"Bush voters were more reluctant to talk to exit pollsters than Kerry voters." ??? Ridiculous, when you consider that the exit polls were very accurate in states using paper ballots instead of electronic voting machines. To say, "Bush voters were more reluctant..." but only more so in electronic voting states, is ludicrous on its face.

"Exit pollsters concentrated on women, which distorted the sample because most women favored Kerry." ??? See above. If women were over-sampled, then exit polls would have been equally inaccurate relative to tabulated votes in all states, not just in those using vote-flipping electronic machines and tabulators. Are we asked to believe that pollsters oversampled women only in swing states that used electronic methids? Good Lord.

"Exit polls aren't reliable." ????? Somebody should tell Dick Morris, who now works for Bush, and who had a "slip of the tongue" on Nov. 3. Morris said, exit polls were "very reliable." They're so reliable, in fact, that the United States called the Ukraine election a fraud based on exit polls. But in the United States, that temple of democracy and a free press, it's not thought conceivable that somebody could have pulled a fast one here. How many conspirators did it take to fix the Ukraine election?

My 2 cents:

Of course the oddsmakers counted on a Bu$h win. They were likely told about all of Clint Curtis' vote rigging.

Alan. crawl back under your slimy rock!

He who controls the past, controls the future.

alen and cb
it's all good boyz
the show is over folk, it's too late to fix global warming, the lunatics are running the asylum
having all the money in the world won't stop you from watching your children choke on the fumes of your profits.
they stole the election..big deal..let them have it
if there is a historian in our future she will recognize that the publicans got rich and destroyed the world..we win but damn..lousy prize when it's all said and done
so..go home , hug your partner, cry for your children.
you guys won..big freakin deaL
RENDER UNTO CEASER..and all that

cd

There were simply too many "anomalies" that all fell in Bush's favor to accept the result as legitimate.

Alan - you are wrong on most of your exit poll opinions. The exit polls that were published on election day on CNN and other places were properly weighted. Sometime after midnight they were re-weighted to put them in agreement with the election results. Edison/Mitofsky, the pollsters, explain this in their report. If you would like to know the ugly truth please read:

http://electionarchive.o...2004_Edison-Mitofsky.pdf

and

http://exit-poll.net/ele.../EvaluationJan192005.pdf

Exit polls and odds makers aside--
How does anyone justify believing that bush, a notorious failure at business and all the rest of his prepolitical baggage, who was successful only in buying/stealing elections, who explains his lied for War as a catastropic success, could inspire a 'legitimate' 20%(+/-) increase in voter turnout for him? And a monster higher vote than any previous candidate?

The big push for voters was on the left where ABB was pulling previous nonvoters to sign on.
Toss in bush's low ratings in polls and there is no way he got a 'legitimate' win.

Exit polls were correct!

Net gambling odds: We was screwed 10-1.

Where are all those elected reps who said they would fight for us? Well they got their pay raise.

By the way the Huffington Blog is a mishmash of helter-skelter items and the posts only scroll down to about 9 of them, so if you got something to say get there early. They better get the bugs worked out quick!

Before I climb back under my rock, let me add: you are right. Just because I think the election was legit makes me your mortal enemy. I want to destory the environment, take away women's rights and re-enslave the African Americans. Amazing. You pinned me down.

Oh, no, wait. But I'm a member of the ACLU, support the Nature Conservancy, have voted Democrat in every election of my life and oppose the religious right on almost every point.

Wow. Amazing. People can disagree on one thing and yet NOT be all that different on others. There's really no need to be as divisive and spiteful as those you say you oppose. Really. It's ok to disagree. It's ok to allow free thought instead of insisting on ideological orthodoxy. All you're going to do is insure I stop supporting Democrats. I can't stomach being a Republican, but neither do I want to be associated with such cruelity from people who were once my people-- until they fell into the madness of rage.

As for The Ukraine. Anyone but me think it odd that the people of an oppressive regime with limitted freedoms were able to prove fraud but here, in the most open society in the world, all you got is a few theories and mathmatical equations? Where's the hard evidence? There has to be some.

Alan, I'm glad you asked the question, "Where is the hard evidence?" Answer: It's hidden within the source codes of electronic voting machines, all of which are owned by companies with ties to the Republican Party...and for obvious reasons (they don't want to go to jail), they have fought like demons to keep those source codes to themselves.

Next question please, Alan.

What the heck is going on? Legitimite questions are conspiracy theories??? Truth is a lie and a lie is the truth? What about some of the other pieces to this puzzle such as Raymond Lemme, who conveniently committed suicide prior to turning in his report on voting software tampering proof? Lots of disappearences, lots of intimidation. When will we wake up? when it is to late??? Welcome to the new world order....

Women oversampled...
Kerry voters oversampled...

The ONLY way to know if this were true is to know the characteristics of the original sample (actual turnout), and compare it to characteristics of the exit poll interview sample. The characteristics of the original sample (local level that is), can be found in the poll books - which represent the actual turnout.

Those poll books have not been forthcoming to the public BTW.

But lets assume EM interviewers had access to those books during the day and jotted down the information and phoned it in periodically as they went along. I think this is how it works.

Let's say, in advance of Nov. 2, party registration was shifted from Democrat to Republican in some number of cases. We've heard tell of this having happened, however, it may not be particularly noticeable.

Your poll book now has more Republicans than really exist. And less Democrats than really exist. Maybe they shifted more men's or women's registrations too.

So what does that look like on paper? It looks like a lot of Republicans were never picked up in the exit polls. It looks like a lot of men were never picked up in the exit polls. It looks like the response rate was lower for Republicans than for Democrats.

Looks can be deceiving. So how can we test this theory? By reviewing the poll books for party accuracy, for male female accuracy.

Women can't have been oversampled. If they had been, then the exit polls would have diverged from the tabulated vote uniformly. But that didn't happen.

If women had been oversampled, then in paper ballot states Kerry's exit poll numbers would have run ahead of his tabulated votes. But in those states, the numbers matched almost exactly!

If women had been oversampled, then in Florida, Betty Castor would have run ahead of Mel Martinez in the exit polls (as Kerry ran ahead of Bush). But that didn't happen, either...Castor's exit poll numbers were almost identical to the tabulate vote.

This argument is just another variant of "Kerry voters were more willing to talk than Bush voters, which can be dispensed with on the same basis. It's a feeble attempt to justify something that is mathematically impossible to justify.

Really, the debate is over on the merits...what we have to do now is make sure every right-thinking person understands this. That group doesn't include chowderheads who argue against the laws of probability or neo-cons for whom keeping liberals out of office is an end that justifies illegal means.

The exit polls showed Kerry winning Virginia.... VIRGINIA!!!!! Are you kidding me? Virginia? If that ALONE doesn't show a big problem, nothing does.

Second, everyone here read this:
http://www.exit-poll.net.../EvaluationJan192005.pdf

That link is an apology/explanation for the skewed exit polls... written by THE HEAD POLLSTER. What are you suggesting, that Bush minions got to him, threatened him and now he's singing a new song? Oh, puhleaze. You don't have to like Bush to know this is BS.

BEFORE WE CAN TAKE ANY ACTION AGAINST THE EVIL CRIMINALS IN THIS ADMINISTRATION, WE HAVE TO RESTORE OUR ELECTORAL PROCESS. WE HAVE TO DEMAND A VERIFIABLE PAPER TRAIL AND ELIMINATE BLACK BOX VOTING. WE CAN SPEND ALL OF OUR TIME COMPLAINING ABOUT BUSH, CHENEY, ROVE, THE RIGHT WING EXTREMISTS JUDGES, DELAY, FRIST, THE WHOLE EVIL BUNCH BUT UNTIL WE DEMAND FAIR ELECTIONS THINGS ARE ONLY GOING TO GET WORSE.

yes. Therefore, visit Velvet Revolution if you haven't already and get started!

...CB said on 5/10/2005 @ 10:41pm PT...

"What a self congratulation society this is, geez!"

No one's forcing you to be here. People are angry, and have moved far beyond being civil to apologists of this neofascist bunch.

Bob, he may not have his head in the sand; he may just prefer the results of the crime.

The bit about the oddsmakers was only there to set up the point, whether it was a wise way to do it, or not. The crux of Lampley's post is clear:
"We know that margins for error are valid, and that results have fallen within the error range for every Presidential election for the past fifty years prior to last fall. NEVER have exit polls varied by beyond-error margins in a single state, not since 1948 when this kind of polling began. In this past election it happened in ten states, all of them swing states, all of them in Bush's favor. Coincidence? Of course not".
Of course not.

Bush cheated in win in 4 states. New Mexico, Ohio, Florida, and Nevada. The mountain of evidence of both electronic fraud and humanistic fraud is well documented at www.votecobb.org and www.freepress.org. Exit poll data was not the only evidence that the 2004 presidential election was rigged. Nor will the British document confirming that Bush and Tony Blair planned to attack Iraq prior to 911 be the only proof that the Bushit administration planned to take over and control Iraq's oil. All Americans need to get mad. Mad at a government of corrupt individuals that lied to them and is rewriting previously passed congressional rules and laws. I am also trying to save the Grizzly Bear in the lower 48 states. I want the Chicago Bears to get involved and wage a bet in Vegas. If they go to the Super Bowl, the Yellowstone Grizzly population must be reconnected to remaining Grizzly populations. Offroad vehicles must be outlawed off their land. Bush's corporated industry oil, gas, and timber must back the hell off from developing the land, as well as human road and land developement. Grizzlies are half human and do not appreciate be turned into inbreeds like mountain hillbillies (Bush) and yesterday's royalty (Blair). The Grizzly Bears is the spiritual healer in the native American world (if you were born in America you are native American) and Canada must stop hunting the Grizzly and put them on the endangered specie list. So that's the line. Yes Bush cheated. You frigin humans must get mad, change the system and save and protect the wild Grizzly Bear.

Correction: I was not trying to offend mountain hillbillies. All mountain hillbillies are not inbreeds but this type of inbreed has occured. That was the point. Since most humans are all about the bling bling than maybe a good ole American bet is the best thing to help ensure the Grizzly Bear's survival and promote interest in their preservation.

OK Expert Gamblers.
What's the Vegas line on the Chicago Bears going to the Super Bowl right now? What is the line on the Bush Administration (Bush, Cheney, Rice, Gonzalez, Rove, Blackwell and all the other corrupt snakes in government) will be impeached and do jail time for crimes against the American people and the world? Not kushy million dollar house arrest Martha Stewart time, the kind people convicted of drug use offenses and being the wrong color skin without adequate representation hard time.

To Robert Lockwood Mills,
I agree with most all you said my purpose was only to post the link to keep the report in the minds of those who have read it and to peak the intrest of those that haven't. If you read the report, Im sure most people will come to the right conclusion rather than have me to try and explain what the report shows or dosent show.....Thanks Shawn

There are less than 1000 Grizzly Bears in the lower 48 states and their last places where they live are being destroyed like other last wild animal habitats. The Bush Administration which cheated to win the last 2 elections reversed Clinton roadless rule law protection 58 million acres of forest land last year. In addition to rolling back 400 environment laws and standards. This all ties in with rigged election and robots in Congress that accepted electoral votes giving power to government that cheated to win. ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, FOX did not release there raw election data feed for 6 weeks because they are in on it. The wealthy, the government, the silent mass media.
GOOD MORNING CRIMINALS!!!

While fraudulent Presidential elections are not about voting Republican or Democrat, got one more thang for all you Republican homophobes that ran out to the polls to express your vote against gay marriage. You finally got a poster child. Open up the recent issue of Rolling Stone and check out the photo of George W walking holding hands with OPEC Ali Baba in the article about Iraq. It ain't exactly a BJ however maybe you robots in Congress that voted to accept the fraudulant electors can spend more tax payers money and prosecute yo man Georgee for fondling on the job.

Top 10 recent biggest crimes in "The History of Our Nation" (#1 being absolute worst).

10. Huffington Post burying "The Biggest Crime in the History of this Nation" article instead of making it a centerpiece story on the website's short lived history.

9. Letting greed kill the 2004-2005 Professional Hockey Season.

8. Korean War

7. Vietnam War

6. Turning US politics into the corporate selection of 2 handpicked Amoebas for America to choose and then not reflecting their choice in Presidential Election 2000.

5. Allowing private companies which gave to the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign to count the votes in secrecy without verifyable paper ballots.

4. Stopping the Florida Recount in Presidential Election 2000. Candidate Gore actually won.

3. The US Federal District Court not investigating Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell and Co-Chair to the Bush-Cheney re-election campaign cheating and stonewalling the Presidential Election and illegitimate recount in Ohio.

2. All the writers and commentators of the "Silent Mass Media" not reporting how Bush and Cheney cheated in the Presidential Election of 2004 and not reporting the truth about the election results.

1. Bush and Cheney getting away with murder. Using the sympathies of 911 to attack Iraq instead of going after Bin Laden who was actually responsible and helping corporate industry screw Americans and the environment (Earth) royally.

Stop dinking around with the paper trail issue. Get rid of the voting machines outright!

After seeing the fraud again in 2004, I was distraught and just had had it with the system. Here in Oregon we vote exclusively by mail – the only state in the nation to do so. Oregon had the highest rate of registered voters who voted – nearly 85%! The only fraud that occurred was when the Republicans attempted (and succeeded in some cases) to discard voter registrations by Democrats.

Anyway, I was mad after November 2 and spent the following six weeks researching and building a new website devoted to informing the citizenry about voting by mail and how to get initiatives started in the qualifying states so that these initiatives can be voted on as early as 2006!

Voting by mail was so easy! No more voting booths or voting machines! No more taking time off, no lines, no waiting, etc. Check out the website and see how it can change the system!

Our Secretary of State wrote an article for the Washington Post (see the blog at the website) to tell the country about the success of voting by mail. Check it out!

The integrity is narrowed down to the counting, and I attempt to discuss the issue at the website.

Hand-counting the ballots should also be considered as a backup, or even as a viable alternative.

As one person wrote:

“When I lived in Germany, they took the vote the same way most of the world does – people fill in hand-marked ballots, which are hand-counted by civil servants taking a week off from their regular jobs, watched over by volunteer representatives of the political parties. It’s totally clean, and easily audited. And even though it takes a week or more to count the vote (and costs nothing more than a bit of overtime pay for civil servants), the German people know the election results the night the polls close because the news media’s exit polls, for two generations, have never been more than a tenth of a percent off.”

So, if our election results cannot be confirmed the same day, then too bad. We can all afford to wait a few days or even a few weeks if it means ensuring that all the votes are counted.

What people in various states – especially Ohio – need to do now is to get the initiative petition filed and begin collecting signatures. Network through Meetup.com to have meetings to collect signatures! Since it really is a non-partisan issue (clean voting for all, right?), then Republicans, Democrats, Greens, Libertarians, and others should have no trouble signing the petition (if you truly believe in clean elections).

Get on it now! I’ve sent media packets to different radio personalities, but nobody wants to start the debate. So, then, power to the people! Californians recalled the Governor using the exact same method, so it can be done. And because it is NOT a partisan issue, people should be enthusiastic enough not to have to be paid to collect signatures.

There should be no complaining any further – let the good people of Ohio be the first to get the petition started and get it on the ballot in 2006. Make “Katherine” Blackwell s**t in his pants!

Check out www.electionsbymail.com

Please!

Has John Kerry won Ohio yet???

Like Lampley said, we need someone from the inside of this epic affront to our Democracy to bring forward the truth.

I believe that a "Wanted: The Truth About Our Election" offer should be made. Create a REWARD fund of several million dollars that will be awarded to those individuals who provide verifiable PROOF that the Election was hacked.

With the lure of enough money and a compelling plea that, without the truth, our Democracy is under attack, whoever was instructed to hack the optical voting systems will be compelled to come forward.

Without offering a substantial reward for the Truth, whoever did the deed will always choose to stay in the darkness.

A wonderful idea! If people will send checks payable to "Honest Elections Fund," I'll open a bank account with an "06" number (the institutional equivalent of a Social Security number, as I remember from my days as a broker) and will
publicize it as best I can.

My name is as above, and my address is:

65 Stillmeadow Circle, Monroe, CT. 06468

For Chris L.: At 5 p.m. it was so clear from the exit polls that Kerry was going to win that Karen Hughes told Bush, "Mr. President, I'm afraid you've lost." Bush replied, "I'm surprised, but what is, is." They agreed to prepare his concession speech.

Then Karl Rove came in and said something to the effect of, "Nothing to worry about."

Obviously, Karen Hughes and Bush knew that exit polls were reliable. But Rove knew they could be made to appear unreliable. It's all in how you rig the tabulated vote. But as smart as Rove is, he never figured out how to do this (or never thought to do this) in paper-ballot states, the result being that an inexplicable anomaly was created between exit poll discrepancies in electronic voting states and the lack of them in paper ballot states.

That one oversight could become Rove's undoing, and the smoking gun that ends Bush's presidency.

Robert,

I think you are right. I track line movement from betting exchanges at all times during the day and the price that you had o lay on a kerry victory was at one time 3000 dollars to win a 1000... and you could bet 1000 dollars on bush and win 2800... now you tell me???? Were not talking about joe blow square who bet 10 dollars on something... Im talking about much more than that. Kerry had it won and then something changed that noone can explain. Without coming right out and saying it.. I know that is what lampley is talking about. Im not saying that the big money bettors couldn't be wrong.. im just saying that its VERY HIGHLY unlikely.

In fact, Chris, the big money bettors at Intrade weren't wrong. They were so right that they called EVERY SINGLE STATE CORRECTLY!

Intrade is a futures market. There are no small bets allowed at futures markets (you have to put up thousands just to play), and these markets are notorious for rewarding the people with inside information (like Wall Street, only more so). I was a licensed commodity representative for over 20 years, so I know whereof I speak. Hillary Clinton might be the only "small time player" to ever win at the futures markets...and, uh, she had "help."

If an international auditing group were allowed to investigate what happened at Intrade just before Election Day, that would expose the entire fraud. It's located in Ireland, but I'm not clear whether Irish authorities have jurisdiction over it. In any case, the random chance that a foreign futures market could predict 50 out of 50 states accurately, without inside information as to vote rigging, is so slight as to be non-existent.

I'll leave the mathematics to professionals. But as an amateur mathemetician, I've calculated the random likelihood that anyone could predict the outcome of all 11 tossup states (50-50 possibilities individually) at 1 in 2,048...less than 1/2 of 1%. That fraction would then have to be multiplied by the fractional chance of getting every one of the other 39 states right. Prohibitive is too mild a word.

The arithmetic tells it all.

PROOF OF VOTER FRAUD IN WI – charges to be filed in the coming weeks
Inquiry finds evidence of fraud in election
Cast ballots outnumber voters by 4,609
Investigators said Tuesday they found clear evidence of fraud in the Nov. 2 election in Milwaukee. "Clearly, there is proof that fraud took place in the November 2 election," said Milwaukee County Executive Scott Walker. Milwaukee Mayor Tom Barrett "any individual who committed fraud (should) be prosecuted." Officials indicated some of the fraud cases could be handled at the federal level because the election involved federal candidates, while other cases could involve state charges.

Biskupic and McCann said they remain troubled that three months after the investigation began that city officials have been unable to account for a gap of about 4,600 votes, with more ballots counted than people listed as voting. The city's record-keeping problems meant investigators from the FBI and Milwaukee Police Department have logged more than 1,000 hours reviewing the 70,000 same-day registration cards, including 1,300 that could not be processed because of missing names, addresses and other information. Indeed, about 100 cards described as "of interest to investigators" cannot be located, officials said. And within the past few weeks, police found a previously lost box of the cards at the Election Commission offices.

The federal-local investigation was launched Jan. 26, a day after the Journal Sentinel reported that some 1,200 votes in the November election came from invalid addresses. Among other findings, some 1,300 same-day registration cards were processed by poll workers who allowed people to vote even though the cards were incomplete. Some 548 had no address listed and 48 gave no name - yet the person was allowed to vote. Another 141 listed addresses outside the city.

http://www.jsonline.com/...s/metro/may05/324933.asp

Paul Revere (#112) 85% turnout in Oregon voting by mail. Why not have a new vote in Iraq by mail. I bet the good citizens of Iraq would be willing to have another election to test how much oil is in their water. Can Civil servants in a war torn bombed out country verify and count the mail in ballots to duplicate the last Iraqi (Bushit) election that was held in January? Do they cook their food over there or only American held elections? This could be a champion. What do you think Brad? Is this the best chance for legitimacy? In Oregon? In the USA? In Germany? In BF Egypt? And Can the government also put some more deceptive confusing pro-con issues on the ballot so the common man can inadvertantly cast votes against himself like a suicidal cutter with a new package razor blade?

"Alan said on 5/11/2005 @ 9:51am PT...
Before I climb back under my rock, let me add: you are right. Just because I think the election was legit makes me your mortal enemy. I want to destory the environment, take away women's rights and re-enslave the African Americans. Amazing. You pinned me down.
Oh, no, wait. But I'm a member of the ACLU, support the Nature Conservancy, have voted Democrat in every election of my life and oppose the religious right on almost every point.
…
Wow. Amazing. People can disagree on one thing and yet NOT be all that different on others. There's really no need to be as divisive and spiteful as those you say you oppose. Really. It's ok to disagree. It's ok to allow free thought instead of insisting on ideological orthodoxy. All you're going to do is insure I stop supporting Democrats. I can't stomach being a Republican, but neither do I want to be associated with such cruelity from people who were once my people-- until they fell into the madness of rage."

Well, Alan, you support the Nature Conservancy --- they can be hard-nosed sometimes --- you are cookin', dude. The ACLU too, that makes it hard to believe you live in a stupor, yet it appears you do --- which simply makes you STUPID! That's why you don't give this revelation any credence.

People out to make money --- that's what betting is all about, Alan, people out to make easy money (sound familiar???!) --- have one agenda, you know what that is, I don't have to repeat it. People who bet the big bucks don't laugh when they've been cheated, either --- they were cheated, and they know it. We were cheated --- both times (you said you voted democratic – so you were cheated too), the difference between us? --- I know it, and you are strenuously rowing down denial.

Alan, you know people speak out on these blogs, it's more comfortable, and safer to show your true feelings when you're not face-to-face with someone. If what we say is enough to drive you to the republicans instead of to the greens, or the natural laws, or the libertarians, it's and indication that you think in black and white – and you appear to want everything white. People are nasty to you because other people are DYING – THEY ARE BEING KILLED AS WE TYPE – THEY ARE BEING MURDERED WITH NO JUSTIFICATION OTHER THAN THE DESIRE FOR MORE AND MORE AND MORE BY THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH TO LAST LIFETIMES – by the very people who stole, "Search your heart, you know this to be true," both of our presidential elections. Talk to the parents of soldiers who are now lying in hospital beds without arms or legs – or the ability to reason. Talk to them about the cruel things being typed at you. Talk to the little Iraqi girl whose feet were hanging to her legs by threads of skin – tell her how typed cruelty will drive you into the arms of those who blew off her feet (you think the US Gov. will provide her with prosthetics?) – tell her that, Alan, then get back to us!

This is not just about bets, Alan, it's about lives – being able to live, for some – and the life of this country as we know it for Americans. From the groups you choose to support it looks like you appreciate the same things many of us on this blog appreciate, so get your head out of that stinky, dark place where you keep it when it's not being used (and I don't mean under your rock), grow up, and realize "what is happening here" is real. Sure, who wants to believe this --- not you, not I, yet it is truth! This reality is not made up by kooks; it was planned and executed by criminals dripping with the blood of everyone killed or injured in their personal war. WAKE UP!, Alan, my friend, wake up and smell the death!

Hurray for Mayor Barrett of Milwaukee! And that goes whether the fraud was on the Democrat side, the Republican side, or both.

If an investigation reveals that Bush really won Wisconsin, so be it. The important thing is that an investigation be conducted...once it begins in
Wisconsin, it will be impossible not to permit similar investigations in other battleground states (no Congressman could argue otherwise with a straight face). And that's how the Ohio, Florida, and New Mexico G.O.P. thefts will be exposed.

Bush and Cheney will be unable to govern and will have to resign. That would make Dennis Hastert president...but he would have the authority to appoint John Kerry vice president. Then Hastert could resign; Kerry, as the new president, could appoint John Edwards vice president, and justice will have been done.

Sounds fanciful, yes. But once the public learns the truth, it will be the only possible remedy.

As the fight song goes..."On, Wisconsin..."

"Alan said on 5/11/2005 @ 9:51am PT...
Before I climb back under my rock, let me add: you are right. Just because I think the election was legit makes me your mortal enemy. I want to destory the environment, take away women's rights and re-enslave the African Americans. Amazing. You pinned me down.
Oh, no, wait. But I'm a member of the ACLU, support the Nature Conservancy, have voted Democrat in every election of my life and oppose the religious right on almost every point.
…
Wow. Amazing. People can disagree on one thing and yet NOT be all that different on others. There's really no need to be as divisive and spiteful as those you say you oppose. Really. It's ok to disagree. It's ok to allow free thought instead of insisting on ideological orthodoxy. All you're going to do is insure I stop supporting Democrats. I can't stomach being a Republican, but neither do I want to be associated with such cruelity from people who were once my people-- until they fell into the madness of rage."

Well, Alan, you support the Nature Conservancy --- they can be hard-nosed sometimes --- you are cookin', dude. The ACLU too, that makes it hard to believe you live in a stupor, yet it appears you do --- which simply makes you STUPID! That's why you don't give this revelation any credence.

People out to make money --- that's what betting is all about, Alan, people out to make easy money (sound familiar???!) --- have one agenda, you know what that is, I don't have to repeat it. People who bet the big bucks don't laugh when they've been cheated, either --- they were cheated, and they know it. We were cheated --- both times (you said you voted democratic – so you were cheated too), the difference between us? --- I know it, and you are strenuously rowing down denial.

Alan, you know people speak out on these blogs, it's more comfortable, and safer to show your true feelings when you're not face-to-face with someone. If what we say is enough to drive you to the republicans instead of to the greens, or the natural laws, or the libertarians, it's and indication that you think in black and white – and you appear to want everything white. People are nasty to you because other people are DYING – THEY ARE BEING KILLED AS WE TYPE – THEY ARE BEING MURDERED WITH NO JUSTIFICATION OTHER THAN THE DESIRE FOR MORE AND MORE AND MORE BY THOSE WHO ALREADY HAVE ENOUGH TO LAST LIFETIMES – by the very people who stole, "Search your heart, you know this to be true," both of our presidential elections. Talk to the parents of soldiers who are now lying in hospital beds without arms or legs – or the ability to reason. Talk to them about the cruel things being typed at you. Talk to the little Iraqi girl whose feet were hanging to her legs by threads of skin – tell her how typed cruelty will drive you into the arms of those who blew off her feet (you think the US Gov. will provide her with prosthetics?) – tell her that, Alan, then get back to us!

This is not just about bets, Alan, it's about lives – being able to live, for some – and the life of this country as we know it for Americans. From the groups you choose to support it looks like you appreciate the same things many of us on this blog appreciate, so get your head out of that stinky, dark place where you keep it when it's not being used (and I don't mean under your rock), grow up, and realize "what is happening here" is real. Sure, who wants to believe this --- not you, not I, yet it is truth! This reality is not made up by kooks; it was planned and executed by criminals dripping with the blood of everyone killed or injured in their personal war. WAKE UP!, Alan, my friend, wake up and smell the death!

I know for a fact that kerry went from a HUGE favorite at 5pm to an underdog by 9pm. I couldnt believe what i was witnessing. I saw it with my own eyes... i know what lampley is talking about.. something really went wrong on election night and that is a fact.. If you track the line movement that night you would know what im talking about,

In reference to comment #124 by Robert Lockwood Mills: John Kerry holds the record in this country in the high dive event. On January 6th, 2005 instead of rejecting the electors in New Mexico, Ohio, Florida, and Nevada, the Senator was in Iraq. While one could possible theorize the Bonesman oath "above country and family" could make him a silent conspiracy candidate, I say WHO CARES! He must be fired with all the other ROBOTS in Congress that knew the election was RIGGED and made George Bush President a 2nd term. Skull and Bones (Yale's formerly powerful secret fraturnity back in the day was made up of the wealthy powerful elite that run this country. Did John Kerry get the call from fellow Bonesman George W Bush to stay lying down? Who cares? He didn't come out swinging punches against electronic vote fraud, hacked tabulators, or Kenneth Blackwell's humanistic obstruction of a fair election and recount. New Mexico had a 20,000 undervote (more votes that voters) and that's not even half the story in that state. Words passed in secrecy. Votes counted in secrecy. Only after a new presidential election with new rules ensuring it's legitimacy will America be a government of the people.

Kerry is largely to blame for the outcome, but like so many people who have been around Washington too long, he thinks elections are about Democrats and Republicans, about me and him and him and me.

If an election can't be overturned by an immediate smoking gun, then voter complaints disappear into a miasma of so-called conspiracy theories. The voter ceases to matter...all that counts to a John Kerry is, "What are my chances of turning this around without appearing like a sore loser and destroying my chances in the next election?" So, he mutters a few empty phrases about people who didn't have their votes counted, and never goes near the word FRAUD.

Kerry isn't stupid. He has to know he was robbed. But there's no "American Voter Party" out there, only Democrats and Republicans. Both exist in a mutually beneficial world of corporate largesse and influence peddling that together suck the life blood out of our democracy. Meanwhile, the Kerrys and Hillary Clintons of this world seduce gullible followers into believing that if we start now (and write checks now) we can "take back" our democracy from the G.O.P.

Not likely, folks. Karl Rove will always be at least one step ahead of both of them.

You Go, Grizzly!!! (#122)

#123 ...Aquilla's friend --- Standing Ovation! Excellent post - just the way I see it, too.

Grizzly #126

It is said that the Black Caucus asked Kerry not to be a part of the January 6th event. I don't know why they wanted it that way ... could something still be working under wraps?

RLM #124 --- I love your vision!

Thanks for the compliment, Kira. Please provide more about the Black Caucus asking Kerry not to be part of Jan. 6. I had not heard that, and if it's true it's very significant, whatever the reason.

The Black Caucus would not have intervened with Kerry without John Conyers knowing it. In fact, it probably would have been his idea to begin with. That suggests a conflict of goals between Conyers and Kerry, or a desire on Conyers' part to distance himself from any appearance of partisanship.

We need to know more here.

Hey anyone wonder why this didn't happen september 11?

Check out this testimony fresh on Cnn today about the pilot intercept.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/.../cnna.lehmann/index.html

In reference to comment #127, YES, the "don't want to appear like a sore loser" while probably an accurate excuse, NOTHING can excuse any ROBOTS in Congress for accepting the FRAUDULENT ELECTORAL VOTES this country shouldn't even be using anymore. The all received the 102 page John Conyers Jr report on Ohio irregularities the day before. I cannot respect a polical figure in a major contest that cannot speak the TRUTH about a rigged election (massive electronic and humanistic cheating by the so called winner) because of the chance he might appear like a loser. No guts no glory. NO RESPECT. I also believe the Black Caucus story is rubbish. Florida and Ohio suppressed the Black vote(humanistic fraud). New Mexico suppressed the Spanish and Indian vote (humanistic fraud). The only people coming out against that are the people covering it up and the dumbfcks who don't want to believe it didn't occur.

Repeated using proper English plus:

In reference to comment #127, YES, the "don't want to appear like a sore loser" while probably an accurate excuse, NOTHING can excuse any ROBOTS in Congress for accepting the FRAUDULENT ELECTORAL VOTES this country shouldn't even be using anymore. They all received the 102 page John Conyers Jr report on Ohio irregularities the day before. I cannot respect a political figure in a major contest that cannot speak the TRUTH about a rigged election (massive electronic and humanistic cheating by the so called winner) because of the chance he might appear like a loser. No guts no glory. NO RESPECT. I also believe the Black Caucus story is rubbish. Florida and Ohio suppressed the Black vote(humanistic fraud). New Mexico suppressed the Spanish and Indian vote (humanistic fraud). The only people coming out against that are the people covering it up and the dumbfcks who don't want to believe that it ever occured. Because the mass media went along with the Bushit program, we have a country of uninformed stupid lazy Americans. FIRE all the bastards in office. Put in new blood to try and make informed decisions. We can't do any bloody worse. NO more stupid TV commercials. Every media paper should have a free section showing how every Congressman, office holder voted for all to see. The TRUTH about the Environment and the destruction of the remaining Grizzly Bear population in the lower 48 must be addressed.

CRD jr #132
Pilot intercepts did not happen on 911 because if they had there would not have been a 911.

One of the bottom rocks to be pulled out and the whole plot comes crashing down. Is this a 'conspiracy theory'? Sure, it is a 'theory' but there is proof to put it to rest. Just let out the Pentagon pictures, explain why building 7 at the WTC dropped like a rock, like it was "pulled", why no intercepts, for starters. We're big boys and girls, we can take it just lay out the evidence.

Failure to lay out the evidence, all of it, is proof of conspiracy.

Failure to provide for a verifiable 'paper trail' in the 2004 vote is proof of conspiracy.

And guess what? The same folks are in charge of all of this.

Also on Black Caucus FYI:
On January 6,2005 1 Senator named Barbara Boxer and i believe 33 in the House many Black including a former judge Stephanie Tubbs stood in protest of the rigged election. Check out the Got Glitched DVD sheri@citizenact.org about Ohio irregularities in which Bob Fitrakis and Bev Harris speak at a forum at a Santa Monica church about what's happened. I haven't been able to purchase it yet however i was there.

COMMENTS #132 and #135 need to be reconciled with the following video:

http://download.alciada....vidRayGriffin-CSPAN2.wmv

Lampley claimed, "NEVER have exit polls varied by beyond-error margins in a single state, not since 1948 when this kind of polling began. In this past election it happened in ten states, all of them swing states, all of them in Bush's favor. Coincidence? Of course not."

For the record, www.mysterypollster.com pollster Mark Blumenthal cites examples of 5 states that were off by between 7% and 16% in the 2000 election. He also gives a thorough explanation as to why certain polls (German, Utah) have a track record for excellent accuracy far superior to exit polls in the US. (This is due to better and different methodology; far larger sampling size; much better trained/more experienced pollsters).

Lampley's not an expert in polling (though I daresay he knows a lot about betting on sports events). Mark Blumenthal (a Democratic pollster) and other readers at www.mysterypollster raise a number of issues in relation to some aspects (not all) of the USCV study. They raise questions that may have validity. In any case, before rushing to adopt the point of view of any one study one should try to inform oneself from other sources as well. Mark Blumenthal's website is one good place to learn a lot more about polling techniques, various statistical approaches historical information and more.

The good news is, I have a recent email from Bruce O'Dell at USCV saying that they are preparing a new paper which will directly address the various questions that have been raised by Mark Blumenthal, Rick Brady, "Febble" (Elizabeth Liddle) and others at KOS and DU. USCV w'll present the draft at the American Association for Public Opinion Research conference this weekend (pollsters' conference) and after revisions will publish the final version shortly afterwards. It should make for good reading.

On a different topic (Intrade):
It's nteresting about Intrade being based in Ireland. Perhaps it is no coincidence that the e-voting company Sequoia Pacific was formerly owned by Jefferson Smurfit, a major Irish multinational. As per http://www.votefraud.org/News/2000/3/031800.html

"Relevance has learned that Sequoia Pacific is owned by Jefferson Smurfit Group, p.l.c., a massive transnational conglomerate which is the largest paper-based packaging company in the world, with over 8 billion dollars per year in revenue. Jefferson Smurfit is an Irish firm based in Dublin and it boasts many "heavy hitters' on its board, including Albert Reynolds, the former Prime Minister of Ireland, Ray MacSharry, a former member of the European Commission and the European Parliament; Eoin Ryan, a former Irish Senator and member of the board of the Central Bank of Ireland; a number of top Irish or European banking and air line officials, and Dr. T.A. Reynolds, Jr. a member of the board of Gannett News Services, one of the largest newspaper chains in America. This might owe in part to the fact that Jefferson Smurfit is the number four supplier of newsprint in the United States."

The party to which former Irish Prime Minister Albert Reynolds belongs, called "Fianna Fail," is still in power in Ireland. In recent years there was a strong push (from who/where and why?) from within the Irish government to introduce electronic voting. Now you tell me--is this a coincidence?

With Intrade being based in Ireland, and with the history of top Irish political figures (including EU heavy weight Ray MacSharry) and top Irish business players being Board members of an American e-voting company, it would not surprise me if there were well-established links to insider information from the US voting maching world to Intrade in Ireland.

RLM #131

I've been searching for more information regarding the comment I made that the Black Caucus requested Kerry not to appear at the Congressional Hearing to Certify the Electoral College votes, but cannot pick anything up on search engines.

I have read the statement several times since Jan. 6, (and ran across the comment just in the last week or so) probably by blog commenters and I think the last time I saw the comment, it was on Democratic Underground. So, take it as a rumor unless somebody corroborates it - i.e. John Conyers.

I would like to know if there's any truth to it, but apologize in advance if I'm guilty of spreading a rumor.

#132 & #135
It's absolutely stunning that the military intercepts worked like they have on every other occasion except on Sept. 11th of 2001. In fact --- imho --- every single thing about Sept. 11th was shocking. The pResident did not act like any President in history --- he acted like a guilty man. I picked up on it that day. Everything that happened was unbelievable --- unless it was MHOP.

OK, I give up Kira, what's MHOP? Something tells me you didn't mean Mental Health Outreach Program.

Hi Catherine A #140

(oops - sorry I left out the I) --- MIHOP - made it happen on purpose

As opposed to LIHOP - let it happen on purpose

Thanks for the translation! Yes, 9-11 sure does look like MIHOP.

Hi Kira#139
I recall hearing/seeing that the caucus asked Kerry to not appear. At that time, I believe Kerry was already out of the states...so I wondered if the caucus was just giving him cover.

Trying to 'reconcile' as per George #137 but I cannot get it to 'Go'

Cole #143

Try this link: David Ray Griffin Speech on 9/11 video

Or go to this page to make a choice: David Ray Griffin at 9/11 blogger site

So - your comment about the Caucus possibly "covering" for Kerry is interesting. Maybe Brad can find out for us.

I'm 63 years old, which might explain why I don't use on-line shorthand. So to make up for lost time, here are my thoughts about Bush at the moment:

IMHO...LOL! MIHOP...no, LIHOP! LOL! That's SOP. Please RSVP, and PDQ. We're in D-DOODOO, IMO. SOS! FU, W! RLM

RLM - LOL!! Actually, I'm ROFLMAO (rolling on the floor laughing my ass off!)!!!

I'm so ignorant about the online shorthand stuff I have to look it up! I love your paragraph, btw. Do you think this will be the accepted writing form of the future?

The Comedian yells, "Joke #77!!" & the audience howls with laughter!

Anyway --- what's SOP???

LOLOL!

SOP= Standard Operating Procedure and actually pre-dates the internet. I know, hard to imagine, but there Was life before the net.

Paul Revere wrote(#112)..."So, if our election results cannot be confirmed the same day, then too bad. We can all afford to wait a few days or even a few weeks if it means ensuring that all the votes are counted."

You can't even begin to imagine how gratifying it was for me to see this statement in this age of Instant Gratification. There seems to be this terrible attitude of "if it isn't NOW, then forget it" and I too believe that it is more important that EVERY vote be counted, our voting rights protected, than that we get results the same day. If Truth is worth fighting for, isn't waiting a few days to Insure that Truth have its say more than worth the weight!?

I like a lot of what you had to say in favor of voting by mail, and will be checking out the site you recommended, www.electionsbymail.com. Thank you for speaking up!

As for the Huffington article....I can't help but wonder how many other folks out there have tried to drag something into the light only to have their voice silenced. Then again, I ponder that chilly thought most days. Sometimes its the only thing that keeps me fueled.

Re: Quinn #147

Thanks for refreshing my memory on definition of SOP. It is getting hard to remember life before the Internet --- however, I learned to type on a manual typewriter and had a great collection of 33 1/3s and later 8-track tapes - ah .. the old days.

I have mixed feelings about sending votes through the mail.

My real question is why we don't just take lessons from Canadian elections? They do a swell paper ballot election & the precincts get counted up with the public watching, and on the same night. We could take just a small portion from the millions of dollars they're spending on the electronic voting machines and pay the extra people to count the ballots.

Really --- look into the Canadian way.

Hi, RLM #124 - I agree with you that all criminals belong in jail, whatever their political beliefs. BUT, we should be careful about Wisconsin, because Rove could just as easily have arranged for fraud that appeared to benefit Kerry in Wisconsin as he did for Ohio, etc. to benefit Bush. When they wre switching ballots, they tried to NOT make it look like a run-a-wy win for Bush. Rove could have also interfered in Wisconsin for further "insurance". He needs as much distraction away from the truth of the stolen election as possible. While fraud may have taken place, it is important to know WHO and how. Just because it may have benefitted Kerry, doesn't mean Democrats necessarily did it. Whoever, is responsible should be prosecuted. That ESPECIALLY includes those who put the wrong person in the Presidential seat.

While we are IMPEACHING the Bush administration and all the elected representatives who haven't done their jobs with respect to holding legitimate elections, in the United States, of all places, the members of the U.S. SUPREME COURT, which REFUSED to do their job and ENSURE ALL THE VOTES WERE COUNTED IN 2000 ALSO NEED TO BE DEALT WITH. It is UNJUST that they, in all their incredible arrogance, IGNORED the LAW AND DEMOCRACY and appointed, WITHOUT ANY AUTHORITY TO DO SO, that veritable JACKASS as president. These particular justices need to be penalized and brought to JUSTICE themselves.

Hear-Hear!! Peggy #150 I look for the day when we can garner the kind of support it will take to bring down the fascists.

Hi, Kira #148 - Of course, what you say makes absolute sense. It is ALSO in the financial interests of the taxpayers to have paper ballots counted by people. But, of course, the RICH want to get even richer, and control all the power. That's why they want the machines. It's nothing but corruption paid for by the taxpayers' dollars and taxpayers' loss of democracy. The criminals make YOU pay them to deprive YOU of your rights.

Peggy #152

It's sickening. When will Americans WAKE UP and SMELL THE COFFEE??? Probably when it's too late. So many have been zombified.

COMMENT #148 [link]
...kira said on 5/14/2005 @ 11:26am PT...

Re: Quinn #147

" Thanks for refreshing my memory on definition of SOP. It is getting hard to remember life before the Internet --- however, I learned to type on a manual typewriter and had a great collection of 33 1/3s and later 8-track tapes - ah .. the old days."

How about 78 RPM records?

COMMENT #148 [link]
...kira said on 5/14/2005 @ 11:26am PT...

Re: Quinn #147

Thanks for refreshing my memory on definition of SOP. It is getting hard to remember life before the Internet --- however, I learned to type on a manual typewriter and had a great collection of 33 1/3s and later 8-track tapes - ah .. the old days.

What about 78 RPM's?

COMMENT #148 [link]
...kira said on 5/14/2005 @ 11:26am PT...

Re: Quinn #147

Thanks for refreshing my memory on definition of SOP. It is getting hard to remember life before the Internet --- however, I learned to type on a manual typewriter and had a great collection of 33 1/3s and later 8-track tapes - ah .. the old days.

What about 78 RPM's?

COMMENT #148 [link]
...kira said on 5/14/2005 @ 11:26am PT...

Re: Quinn #147

Thanks for refreshing my memory on definition of SOP. It is getting hard to remember life before the Internet --- however, I learned to type on a manual typewriter and had a great collection of 33 1/3s and later 8-track tapes - ah .. the old days.

What about 78 RPM's?

sorry for multiple comments.

Thanks for the link, Kira #144
I was able to get and read the transcript of Griffen's May 7th speach.

So it is not a question of 'reconcile' which implies finding common ground between opposing views-it is a matter of 'summation', one view adding to the other.

I am quite content to have my little blog entry added to Griffen's larger and more detailed accounting.

The 911 report suffers from severe 'stinkoitis', perhaps it is an effort by those who wrote it to save their ever so important hides. Carrying out the 911 event and coverup would require a very large and loyal cast. The same large and loyal cast that gave us those thefted elections and the eventual Baker
coverup report which will show the 2004 election to have been 'fair and balanced'. To oppose them may be not only political suicide but actual personal suicide.

My view of the 757 v. Pentagon is that the reason the tapes have all been sequestered away from public view is not so we could see what hit the Pentagon, but that we would see that 'nothing' hit the Pentagon. Controlled demolition! That would blow the lid off the question of building 7 and the two twin towers also. Controlled demolition!

The conspiracy exposed.

Thank you Cole for mentioning the transcript, which I had not noticed until you pointed it out. It's good to have that for people who can't load the movies.

So, Karl Schwarz is running for President 2008. I'm not sure what to think about him - and as I said on a thread somewhere - I'm gun shy about any Republicans. But - I'm hoping he will be able to get some airtime and bring out the 9/11 questions into the mainstream.

Shit - there are just too many things that don't add up to anything but theft and fascist control about this corrupt bu$h & company who are in power now. It's really out of bounds.

Quinn --- see --- I forgot about the 78s! Order me that memory pill, wouldya?

You guys are fucking nuts, sore losers.......I'll bet half of you did not even bother to vote because you are a bunch of lazy liberal bastards who love to complain but don't follow through with the system. Grow up and get jobs!

Hi, Meningioencephalomyelitis #161 - Are you very sick? Name sounds painful. Sorry for you.

Hi again, Meningioencephalomyelitis #161 - Thank you for reading Bradblog...now try again...this time with understanding. Have a great day!

Aw Peggy, you're so nice!

This guy Meningioencephalomyelitis is the LOSER with a capital L smack in the middle of his forhead. A total nutcase and a worthless anti-American.

Correction: forehead

#161 Meningioencehpalopathy
Why do you not just stick to one name?

Same drumbeat, same drum, same tempo, same shtick.

He has MPD (multiple "poisonality" disorder.)

Hi CB, I was just curious do you and your friend by any chance work for a media organization called WATR?

I always have questions for someone who seemingly exhibits the kind of behavior that you do. Call me fascinated by it but I come to really wonder what your intentions are.

Please enlighten me, if the prospect of fraud could only have been based on faulty exit polls and interviews conducted by 5 PM, why do the actual final exit polls at Midnight when voting is essentially over reflect the same thing?

http://uscountvotes.org/...xit_poll_simulations.pdf

I'm very curious to hear CB, how does one group of so called polling get results so far off the scale that they don't "correct" themselves until after 1AM in the morning on November, 3rd?

Never mind that fact, but lets get back to the original point of discussion. Why are the WEIGHTINGS themselves which have been characterized now by hundreds of experts, physically RE-WEIGHTED after Midnight has passed and why do the results differ?

Explain the methodology, since you have no proof Bush ever won apparently. Why do the re-weighted weightings, reflect LESS voters actually polled in the final results, with many Kerry exit polls virtually deleted from the record?

ALL the results have been available for quite some time, so perhaps you and Brian York can now go to explain that one instead of making up insane baseless arguments.

http://exitpollz.org

Quite literally, there is basically no result left for this entire game.

By process of elimination, the official database for incident reporting proves there was election fraud and decisive cheating in the 2004 elections.

http://www.votersunite.org

Remember, you media types can argue with words all you want. But you fall flat and take a dive trying to argue with numbers. Play the game fair, or don't bother playing because gambling is a two way street.

Ringman

A quick comment in reply to Francis C:

I'm afraid it is not that simple, this already happened with Justice Through Music.

The reward was upwards of 200,000 dollars and whistle blower Clint Curtis came forward, but not with the hope of reward. It was only for the sake of the truth.

Now Clint has passed all lie detector tests, and for a fact produced a vote fraud program which switches votes on defaulted settings. Enough evidence in the incidents prove this technique was used quite literally in numbers of states.

However, the problem is in the legal stalling of these proceedings itself. Someone needs to actually seize the physical tabulators to go over the entire log files, and the associated timestamps for when the code was used.

The problem in that is, someone would need full legal jurisdiction and the approval of actual criminals who work for the voting machine companies. That's not going to come easily to get that tangible evidence, not without quite a few lawsuits the likes of Velvet Revolution have been apart of.

The washington lawsuit in retrospect, could break this wide open. Sequoia would be forced to hand over the tabulator and preceding files which is so called "protected" under a proprietary act.

Likely if this were to occur, other companies would be immediately forced to do the same thing. There is the one harping fact of all this, it is not simple criminals who passively hacked and eroded democracy.

It instead is actual religious afciandos, who have done this multiple times before with the exact same methodology where the exit polls never matched up.

In 2002, 2000, and the other examples it was buried beneath a wall of distractions and artificial hoopla. However, it did happen the exact same way as it did in 2004 and with the same machines.

Far-right extremists own the voting, and they also have legal sway in the courts themselves. So the head honcho is fighting tooth and nail for it to not be discovered. He's also viciously fighting to save Jack Abramoff from going directly to prison because it could expose the entire plot.

These far-right extremists have been organizing their collective for quite some time now, no amount of money or fame could get one of them to blow the whistle on their blood-brother friend.

However, extreme and unparalleled in-fighting between the entire group could force the dam to break in a very vicious way. This could even erupt in the new Court case inside of Ohio being reviewed.

They can't be touched from the outside in the process people claim, but the actual inside on the other hand may implode entirely once enough pressure is applied.

http://www.ecotalk.org/V...tingMachineCompanies.htm

I don't see the likes of their kind going to jail unless they start ratting eachother out, under backlash from the very people they claim are the evil minions of satan.

Religion can be the one thing in the world that makes people deny all rationality, it is the stickler to which one associates physical beliefs- Not actual values.

When that belief is threatened or questioned, it will come down to the fact that those who hold said belief will commit any crime or any act for that matter in order to ensure its continuity.

If it is done for the sake of their higher beliefs, there is never any reason to check the morality or any basis of those decisions. In the eyes of one who is obsessed with fanaticism, there is no wrong doing or absolute which could contest their view.

The extremists deal in absolutes, like the Sith and modern retro space folklore. They would never cross that line of one another unless there was simply no choice.

Ringman

Meningioencephalomyelitis (#161).....If Brad ever gives an award for "Stupidest Post Of All-Time", you've got at least one vote.