C'mon guys and gals and lawyers among us. Capital punishment refers to death sentences meeted out by the state apparatus. After a trial.

Get over yourself Brad. No one cares about your spats. They really don't.

What we care about is what the CRU emails and code tell us about the IPCC reports used to establish the "consensus" on AGW.

Hey peppersnarkety, what exactly do those emails tell "us" about AGW?

I would just LOVE to see internal communications from any of the Exxon-funded AGW-Denial "Think"-tanks. What do you think those would reveal? People genuinely concerned with the fate of the planet?

Brad that guy is a nut. But you're wrong about the emails. It's a miss-characterization of the situation with climatescience and the IPCC.

Dr. Roger Pielke Sr. is one of the scientists mentioned in the emails that the CRU has attempted to silence by trying to exclude his research from the IPCC peer reviewed papers.

Note that he is NOT a climate skeptic.

For more info see his website blog:
http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com

I. Rus, comment #1, minimized, "C'mon guys and gals and lawyers among us. Capital punishment refers to death sentences meeted out by the state apparatus. After a trial."

Um . . . then why should someone with no authority to confer them, no suggestion of what they should be conferred for, and no apparent standing to take anybody to court for wrongs done--why should that person be offering them like parade candy to anybody who disagrees with him?

Whatever treason he imagines climate scientists to have committed--and controlling publication of their own journals is not treason--there's no indicator whatever that Brad was in on it. Breitbart got called intellectually un-rigorous and deliberately misleading, and he responded by calling for his critic's death. Instead of using the term "capital punishment," he could've said, "I hope you're beaten to death in a bar fight!" or, "You should be the first to die when the Iraqis unleash their WMDs on us!" and the effect would've been no more spiteful or wanton. Even cached in pseudo-legal flim flam, he called for the death of someone he disagrees with, simply because he disagrees.

Geez...

Andrew Breibart seems like he's about 12 years old...

How could this guy have a rational debate on the facts ? He can't get past middle school he said/she said silliness...

So, when Bush's flacks were actually busted modifying climate reports to be more corporate-friendly, was Breitbart praying for the death of those in the administration? My guess is, not so much... Hypocrisy is a Republican trademark.

I can imagine a trip to Breitbart's home. His den is probably lined with little voodoo dolls of all the people that discount his fact-free findings (it's a very large den).

I'm going to spare all of you my mordant sarcasm for this because I am having egregious computer anomalies that I am very diligently troubleshooting with a genius, and won't be able to defend myself from the fallout... but it would have been a doozy.....

Don't be awful while I'm so bogged down, please....

xoxoxox

Psalms 109:8
Capitol Punishment

I say we should have a contest to see what other subtle ways the Teabaggerwingnutglenbeckworshipermurdochitesparanoidreligiouswackedoutdouchbags can come up with next to call for the death of anyone who disagrees with their paranoid distorted views...

@99: please do hurry and best of luck with your fix!

@Brad: Great picture of Mr. Breitbart, how many frames did it take to capture such a stunning image of a looney or is it Moonie? Is he a Moonie or just works for em?

'Capital punishment after a fair trial by your peers isn't murder!'

'Capital punishment after a fair trial by your peers isn't murder!' --Exactly.

Lori R. Price
Managing Editor
Citizens For Legitimate Government
http://www.legitgov.org/

Lori Price said:

'Capital punishment after a fair trial by your peers isn't murder!' --Exactly.

I will respectfully, and whole-heartedly disagree. And won't even call for your murder while doing it.

There. Is that so hard?

What part of Thou Shalt Not Kill don't they understand?

I mean, even if yer not a Christian, nobody disagrees with the Golden Rule, and I'm darn sure almost anyone alive would not have capital punishment done unto them.

If the harm has been stopped, fair trial or no fair trial, that's the END of any justifiable reason to kill anyone... for anything... ever....

...................

Shortbus

Thank you. Wonder of wonders, I managed to make it do the same screwup in "vanilla mode" and so my troubleshooting is over and am hoping hard the replacement will come quickly and work perfectly....

Now I just have to figure out how to get back into the main partition where all my bookmarks and things --- my brains --- live... and hope this puppy holds until the new one arrives.

I saw Andrew Breitbart on Bill Maher, and the other guests tore this idiot to shreds, like they always are when they don't get a free one-way unchallenged forum to spout their idiotic lies. It's easy when you're given an unchallenged forum, to be a big "hero".

Breitbart is TWITTING his way right into Oscar the Grouch's garbage can, whom he accused of being biased. He actually accused Oscar the Grouch, that Sesame Street puppet, of being biased. That tells me he watches Sesame Street.

As Breitbart was busy getting his ass handed to him by the liberals on Bill Maher's panel, he came across as an arrogant, unintelligent, paranoid, bitter person. That's what he is.

Is the "no such thing as Global Warming", before or after: Obama isn't a U.S. citizen, Obama pals around with terrorists, ACORN is worse than KBR and all other govt contractors, Obama is the anti-Christ, the Bush administration didn't torture, Weapons of Mass Destruction, Oscar the Grouch is biased, everyone has health care, Graeme Frost is rich, Sadaam mailed anthrax, Joe the Plumber, keep the govt out of medicare, the NFL is run by "liberals", there were no terrorist attacks during the Bush administration (9/11, anthrax, etc...), and what's next after there's no global warming btw...??? We have to start keeping track. What was right before there's no global warming...that Obama wasn't a U.S. citizen? Or was there something in between that? Oh! Oscar the Grouch stole NY-23 for ACORN! Right!

Death panels.

You know Brad, making light of this guys statement that you should be subject to capital punishment for the crime of disagreement is all well and good as a civilized recognition of the value of his ideas but, but, these crazy guys ginning up their followers with increasingly violent language being treated dismissively no matter what their rhetoric, is not necessarily the best way to go in the long run.

Breitbart and his ilk speak directly to a particular brand of wing-nut extremist that has already shown a capability to translate their philosophy into action. If someone like this put it out that I needed killing I'd make a police report over it. Seriously. People just roll their eyes and dismiss this kind of thing but at some point a critical mass will be reached and someone is going to get killed.

I'd make the report just so that when the likely suspects are interviewed the list of them will be comprehensive; when the history is written the list of provocateurs will be complete. If enough people on the receiving end of this kind of thing filed reports it might actually give these crazies pause. Just say'n.

Why would someone need a "fair trial" for an idea that right wingers don't like...?

Hell when trials for unaccepted ideas start happening...they won't need to kill me...I'll friggin' commit suicide.

it's not the murder that bothers me...it's the trial dammit.

Somehow I find this off the point and a distraction. The harping of whether his behavior was over-board.

Was it?

Yes.

But, I also find reaction from those promoting GW to be over-reaction also, in that these emails do indeed cast a measure of doubt on a subject where policy decisions steaming from it would effect every life on this planet. And as one that was involved in starting one of the first ecology institutes way back in the 60's, I can tell you this, I'm not convinced GW is a valid study.

Yes we pollute, but as far as having an effect on Earth's temperature? No. Certainly not enough to warrant forming a One World Government, that would be funded by a global carbon tax, to be handled by the same bankers/corporations that have brought us our current mess.

I got another approach. Something I wanted to do with the bushit administeration and blogged on more than 1 4th of July during there stolen elections x2. Went something like this..

Get in the ring you treasonous lying murderers with me so I can beat your heads in. U like inflicting death on others, doing enviro damage to line the pockets of you and your greedy rich friends and I would like to put an immediate end to you reign. Get in ring MF. Get in the ring.

Breitbart is a Moonie wanna-be, that's all

Does anyone else think it's weird that no one's talking about the actual hackers of the Global Warming emails? I've read many things about this, and I haven't seen anything about the actual hackers. Hacking emails is illegal, right? They seem to get email hackers very quickly all the time. Did they get these guys yet? Why not? It seems easy to get them based on the past. They seem to get them right away. Did they get them, and I just don't know about it?

Also, isn't it weird that Breitbart was connected to the ACORN/pimp thing. Can he possibly be connected to these email hackers? It seems like a similar thing. Why is Breitbart at the forefront of the ACORN thing, and now the email hacker thing?

Krugman pretty much tore that email shit apart Danno on Sunday IMO.

http://videocafe.crooksa...-will-task-over-hacked-s

Big Dan @24

Good point...If I'm not mistaken email hacking carries the same penalty as breaking Postal laws, it's a felony. Why hasn't anyone focused on the actual crime committed here ?...Why is the mainstream media focused on the nefarious lies that have been concocted from committing a felony ?

hmmmm

To go with Big Dan's comment @24

http://www.scholarsandro.../climategate-not-likely/

Third and probably most importantly, no matter how much the deniers scream, these emails aren’t likely to reveal any evidence of scientific malfeasance. And even if they do, there’s an entire globe of researchers whose independent research has bolstered the case that climate disruption is real and that it’s predominantly caused by human civilization. It will take more than even a couple of thousand emails to knock the massive, reinforced scientific foundation that underlies anthropogenic climate disruption.

And let’s not forget – the emails and documents were obtained illegally. If there is truly damning information (such as a critical scientist or three overtly saying stuff along the lines of “I fudged my data and nobody caught me. You lost the bet – pay up.”), then the illegality of the release will fade somewhat in the face of other data. But if not, this hack will be a major problem for not only the hackers who released it but also for all the people who are republishing the emails. Hacking is illegal, but in some states and countries, releasing private email correspondence is considered breach of privacy and is thus also a crime.

Finally, let’s point out that some of the people here screaming the loudest from their soapboxes are hypocrites (such as Michelle Malkin and Ed Morrissey). If the hackers had got into military computers and released private communications, they’d be screaming for the hackers’ blood and demanding that any site republishing the emails be brought up on federal charges. But here they’re screaming for the victim’s blood. If hacking and leaking emails is wrong, then it’s wrong. Claiming that it’s wrong when a leak targets your friends but OK when it targets your enemy makes you a hypocrite and a political hack worthy of nothing but disdain.

lottakatz @ #19:
totally agree. If more filed complaints on these muther f*ckers, maybe we'd hear less "spoutin of the mouth". (oh right. when hell freezes over)

OT
Turn Off Fox bumper stickers only $2.50
http://www.buzzflash.com/store/items/1830
Slap one on your car like we did!

Also you might, might not be interested below. We're attending a local one tonight and will let you know HOW MANY DONT ATTEND and WHAT GOOD IT WONT DO.
UNITED ANTIWAR MOVEMENT TELLS OBAMA:
NO ESCALATION!
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/48050
VETERANS FOR PEACE
Working Together For Peace and Justice since 1985
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IMAGINE PEACE....

"The Leak" at @ 21 said:

these emails do indeed cast a measure of doubt on a subject [global warming]

Really? Which email? What doubt? Feel free to be specific. Thanks.

as one that was involved in starting one of the first ecology institutes way back in the 60's

Really? Which one? What role did you play in it?

I can tell you this, I'm not convinced GW is a valid study.

Really? Which study? There are hundreds, if not thousands of them by, by hundreds, if not thousands, of scientists. Which one is not "valid"?

Again, I'll look forward to your specifics.

Yes we pollute, but as far as having an effect on Earth's temperature? No.

Okay. And your evidence for that is based on, your opinion? Science? Feel free to share.

Certainly not enough to warrant forming a One World Government, that would be funded by a global carbon tax, to be handled by the same bankers/corporations that have brought us our current mess.

Well, on that I'd agree. But since nobody is discusing "forming a One World Government, that would be funded by a global carbon tax", except for loons and disinformation agents, I don't think you need to much worry about that.

But where you say you're concerned that "GW is [not] a valid study", perhaps you ought to be more worried about your news sources not being valid news sources --- unless you are either a loon or a disinformation agent yourself. You'll feel free to demonstrate otherwise by answering the questions I've offered above. Or, we'll never hear from you again as so often happens with "concern troll" phonies.

About a "one world government" you really need to do better research on it. It isn't a secret really. If you do some research on economics you'll get a better idea of the drive for a one world global government.

There is an interview with Norman Dodd, who worked on the controversial Reece Committee:
The interview,in all 5 parts, can be viewed here:

The Hidden Agenda with G. Edward Griffin & Norman Dodd

Some books you may want to read concerning it are:
by Carroll Quigley, Professor of Foreign Service, Georgetown University
"The Anglo American Establishment"
"Tragedy And Hope"

I really haven't looked into it much at all.
I don't think you should spend too much time on it unless you really want to but you're wrong.

See the European Union's website: http://www.europa-eu-un....s/en/article_9245_en.htm

"2009 is also the first year of global governance, with the establishment of the G20 in the middle of the financial crisis."

About Climategate, when a group of scientists hijack the peer review process it's a serious matter. Also science should never be done in secret like the CRU had been doing.

Correction: video interview of Norman Dodd on youtube in 6 parts

Hidden Agenda Norman Dodd 1 of 6

Hidden Agenda Norman Dodd 2 of 6

Hidden Agenda Norman Dodd 3 of 6

Hidden Agenda Norman Dodd 4 of 6

Hidden Agenda Norman Dodd 5 of 6

Hidden Agenda Norman Dodd 6 of 6

Of course there are more immediate problems to worry about.

Cap and Trade leads to "One World Government" ?

You mean that Central Banking and it's private manipulation of a nation's currency isn't a one world government meaure ?

Cap and Trade may, or may not be a money grab...but to attach it to "One World Government" is truly silly.
I guess sales taxes are "One World Government" too

That's another loony tunes tactic used by the corporatists...find a policy they don't like and attach a loaded word like "One World Government" to it. That's sure to inflame the patrioctic, yet ill-informed zealots.

It's simply marching orders for the unconscious...

Bluehawk asks if Breitbart is 12 years old....

He must be as his behavior is certainly childish. When Ellen at Newshounds.us did a post questioning the discrepancies within his ACORN sting, he twitted insinuations that she must be a commie. Looks like Breitbart doesn't understand mature professionalism as he always seems to be operating on a Junior High level.

Dear Brad,

Climate Charge Reports from the IPCC have as much integrity as a Diebold Voting System.

Brad, you damage your own credibility by standing by those who, at first hid their source data from any and all independent confirmation, then were caught red-handed manipulating that same source data as well as ginning up climate model results.

They have also refused FOIA requests, then deleted their pertinent source data, making any independent confirmation or refutation of their conclusions impossible.

The emails also detail strategies to manipulate the peer review process and silence legitimate scientific dissent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYxk7pnmMFw

http://www.youtube.com/w...X-_8&feature=related

We could act as if this unethical behavior never happened. But we would still know, much the same as we know now.

We should not need "Global Warming" or "Climate Change" to motivate us to liver cleaner and smarter. Attention to co2 guides legitimate environmental concern away from from real pollution and more importantly, real polluters.

Cap and Trade is no cap at all, not for those corporations that can afford additional credits (or control the issuance of the credits to begin with). For them the pollution is beyond regulation. After all, they paid for the priviledge, right?

Our planet is toxic. Our air and water is poisoned more and more each day. Chronic illnesses are exploding. Our children are ill in great numbers. The culprit is not co2, and the solution is not a tax hustle enforced on Americans from overseas.

Dr. Tim Ball of the University of Winnipeg:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ydo2Mwnwpac

UK astrophysicist Piers Corbyn:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdwCSS8hPNg
(this one also has solid links to more info)

I can't wait until they find out the email hackers are connected to the right. Remember the ACORN pimp story? When it first broke, everyone was saying: "Wow! Look at this fine, young man! He did a sting operation! What a patriot!" Then you find out he's somehow connected to the right and Breitbart (or whoever financed him was on the right).

It's like an infomercial, just like the ACORN thing: they do the "setup", and the rightwing freaks then do the second part of the infomercial, the media push part.

Just like a friggin' Ron Poppeil veg-o-matic infomercial! Can't anyone see this? How many times does it have to happen? Shill audiences and everything!

"Just set it...AND FORGET IT!!!!!!!"

One more thing: everyone keeps saying "GW" in this thread. I thought you meant "George Bush". Sorry!

...and I think you should ALWAYS show Breitbart with Oscar the Grouch, like they do with Michael Steele:

http://17.media.tumblr.c...0u0gyqQa8xHjCxo1_500.jpg

Wasn't it Breitbart who pushed the story that Oscar the Grouch was biased? So, you should always show him with Oscar the Grouch, like Jon Stewart does with Michael Steele. He's got to be forever ribbed for saying Oscar the Grouch was biased! You can't let that go! Go with it!

Big Dan read what one of the scientists whose research they tried to suppress says. You can't justify doing scince in secret like the CRU did.

Look at http://pielkeclimatesci.wordpress.com

I'm for getting off oil, anyway. Plus, if the rightwing is pushing something, I question it. See: Obama isn't a citizen, Joe the Plumber, Oscar the Grouch, pallin' around with terrorists, Bill Ayers, etc...etc...one after another. This is just the latest one.

btw, Konstantin, who are the hackers and why isn't anyone talking about them and why aren't they caught yet and why does it seem they're not even trying to catch them? And how about the timing of the hack right before Obama's at the GW summit? And how about for decades the right has been discrediting it? And discrediting evolution?

Media matters' rightwing GW disinformation page:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200911300039

On Special Report, host Bret Baier falsely suggested that a series of emails reportedly stolen from the UK's Climate Research Unit (CRU) creates a "basis for disputing global warming." In fact, the validity of climate science is not hinged on the contents of these emails, some of which conservative media have taken out of context; reports from the United Nations' Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC), the leading scientific body for assessing climate change research, are the product of thousands of scientists worldwide.

Mark my words: this is going NOWHERE!

BlueHawk said

Andrew Breibart seems like he's about 12 years old

____________________

Please! Let's not insult the intelligence, not to mention, integrity of the average 12 year old, both of which are sorely lacking in a dissembling propagandist like Andrew Breitbart.

Over at S,N! Breitbart's rantings are invariably summarized as "Blart Blart Blart Blart!"

Do what you will with that knowledge.

I will never accuse those who use psyops with regularity to spread disinformation and distraction of stupidity...no more than when I became aware that the so-called 'Chimperator' was noted by his brother to have a favourite trick of acting stupid as a way of escaping punishment for assorted nastiness as a boy.
And the amount of progressive/Ron Paul/Fed/Bilderberger/Council of Foreign Relations material on YouTube is almost as notable as the lack of attention to UNESCO,Monsanto,worldwide dams and water infrastructure,buildup of coal tipple threatening water, strip mining mountains while taking away rules to keep streams from being fouled, and on and on.
But Global Warming is a bit of a special case in that those same YouTube videos are warning that Cap and Trade and Carbon Taxes will become part of international levies. I have tracked the notes on disappearing glaciers, erratic flow rate of deep ocean currents, likely loss of the base of the ocean foodchain to acidification, oxygen loss and algae - and jellyfish - buildups and coral reef death.
It really is quite overwelming. The YouTube video infomercial "Home-by the Home Project" is a shocking reality check.
I didn't miss on the strange behaviour towards Iran and North Korea : who signed on to use nuclear power responsibly - in the main,. or at first - so as not to attract unwelcome reprisals from their neighbours. Iran is still not at odds with Turkey or Pakistan, for instance : and relations with Chavez are especially resented in the U.S.
Why ? I did not believe for a microsecond that Russia - which escalated matters by reflecting U.S. acts right back - having participated in the Cuban Missile Crisis and lambasting missile installations in Eastern Europe...were suddenly so brain dead so as to facilitate a nuclear threat in their back yard...and energetically protect their business client who they supplied tech and fuel designed so as to not constitute a threat according to an article I read in Russia Today some time past.
Say What ?
Also buying from the wrong supplier - unlike India ?
It ties in...but takes a minute. Humour me.
1 Dec - Following the Trail : Organized Destruction http://my.opera.com/oldephartte/blog/

Follow the money: who benefits by the email/hackers thing? Big Oil? Also, who could have the entire media amazingly focusing ZERO on "the hackers"? Hacking emails is illegal. Every time they hack into something this big, they're caught. In all article, they're referred to as "the hackers", "Hackers hacked into emails", etc...NOWHERE did I see anything about "the hackers" beyond just the words "the hackers" in a sentence like "the hackers who hacked into the emails". Amazing! Nothing about what they face, if caught. Nothing whatsoever about "the hackers".

Of all the things to set your mind to hack into: trying to discredit Global Warming! Getting us off oil! I thought "the terrorists" win, if we keep using oil! Right?

"The hackers" never hacked into Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld emails while they were lying us into war. Funny, huh? All these years, and there's actually millions of emails MISSING! Let alone hacked into!!!

Who benefits from this? Someone who doesn't want us to get off Big Oil.

WHO ARE "THE HACKERS"?????????????????

Opit @45...

I went to the link to posted...

In the first paragraph that site associates global warming/cap and trade with global genocide and population control.

The site then goes on to associate by clever word play Margaret mead with this supposed global genocide and population control...The site also calls Mead's seminal work, the book she wrote in 1928 on Pacific Islanders and their sex life "a fraud". The site offers no proof or reference for that allegation.

Just as your comment @45...that site is a hodge podge or ramblings. Irresponsible ramblings.

The rightwing "War on Science" continues: Hannity says 2009 is one of the coldest years on record...FACTS & scientists say that it was one of the warmest years on record:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200912010040

Now, who should I believe? Sean Hannity or the scientific facts? I know what a lot of FOX "news" fans will believe.

What do you suppose a FOX "news" viewer does, when they find out Sean Hannity is lying? Probably some of them shut off FOX "news", others ignore that he's lying and keep watching. Those are the teabaggers.

One question whether you believe or don't in anthropogenic global warming:

Everyone both for and against quotes and reports on what Glenn Beck says or Hannity or ..

Seriously? Who the fuck cares what they think?! Do you mean to tell me you actually waste your time listening to those idiots??

Now I realize why there so much left/right/conservative/democrat/republican/... in the media. It creates so much noise in the signal of information that people are so distracted and don't get to see the real news and important issues. If you're reporting on those idiots I think you may be partly to blame for distracting people form real issues.

Who the fuck cares what they think?! Do you mean to tell me you actually waste your time listening to those idiots??

Several million teabaggers listen to and believe them. It's not a distraction that should be ignored. Ignore it at your own peril. You won't ignore it, when we have president/VP Sarah Palin/Michele Bachmann.

More accurately, we wish their followers would ignore them. But they don't. They worship and believe everything they say, facts out the window. If you ignore these so-called "distractions", it will effect you when a fetus has full rights, contraception is outlawed, creationism is taught in school, and things like that. Ignore it? It's dangerous to ignore it. Very dangerous. Maybe your wife will get thrown in jail as a murderer for taking contraception. You want to ignore that?

Go ahead, ignore this:

Alaska Proposes “Fetal Personhood”

http://alaskacommons.wor...l-rights-for-the-unborn/

It seeks to make abortion criminal, and would seek to prosecute women who terminate pregnancies for murder or manslaughter. And the implications could be a lot further reaching. Despite the Lt. Governor’s explanation that finds the proposal acceptable; that it does not seek to “amend or repeal existing state law regulating abortion,” it would have to, if written into law. If constitutional rights are afforded at the point of conception, which is the specific aim of Mr. Kurka’s efforts, then we could very easily be looking at the abolition of choice, contraception being made criminal, rape and incest resulting in children born into horrendous and often violent living conditions, among countless other concerns. And we would be forced to try in a court of law those who performed and/or underwent abortions as murderers.

It's a "distraction"...until your wife gets thrown in jail because of a 22 year old religious zealot in Alaska, Sarah Palin country.

Big Dan
I didn't try to convey ideas that a nonsense scenario has an alternate explanation based on one piece of evidence and one simple idea. Rather I tried to get a working theory that explained the facts in such a way that they could ationally coexist : which I don't see in 'conventional wisdom.'
I do believe I shot that all to Hell.

How old is this guy? 10? God, are these wingnut sociopaths pathetic. And these morons actually influence people? No wonder this county is circling the drain.

Capital punishment after a fair trial by your peers isn't murder!'

Call it what you want. Killing is killing. Murder is murder. I think the holy Jebus the wingnuts worship so vehemently would agree. Capital punishment is murder, state sanctioned murder but murder nonetheless. If there is one power the government should never have it is the power to kill its citizens.

What does it tell everyone, that these people are pushing the Global Warming emails thing: Breitbart, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, FOX "news", Mike Savage? Do you really think they're trying to help you? Who do they always speak for? The wealthiest few, corporations, the military industrial complex, and politicians who are against the people, and 100% of the Republican Party.

And nothing "their guys" EVER do is "high treason". What does that tell you? Think about it.

NOTHING "their guys" ever do, is high treason.

"Climaquiddick"? Really?
Jesus Christ.

I'm glad you finally brought up the parallels between the CRU and Diebold. They both had code and data, that they refused to release, and that revealed fraud.